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  1. #1
    Hardtail Warrior
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    Alpine frame: newbie question

    Hi,
    I just purchased an Alpine 450 (I wish I had gone with the 550 because of the awesome looking pure white color and the disc brakes but thats a different story). Fedex sucks and they can never find my house so it is supossed to be here today even though it was scheduled for the 26th but again, thats a different story.

    I have been looking over the specs and nearly every bike that I find in this price range such as the specialized models and the scott bikes have double butted frames. It appears to me that the Alpine frames are not double butted frames. Can someone explain to this noobie what a double butted frame is and why the Alpines don't use it while the competition at this price point does? Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Butted frames

    A Butted frame is a frame that is thicker in areas where there is high stress (think welds, etc) and thinner where there is not as much stress. What this does is reduce the weight of the frame. If I had to guess, Ibex chose not to do this on the Alpine frames because rather than spend the cost on lightening up a frame used for recreational riding, use the money on better drive train components or eslewhere on the bike. If you compare the specs of the Alpine 450 to that of the Hardrock sport, you'll see that the Ibex has more brand name parts (rather than Specialzed OEM parts) and higher end drive train components. That's where I would guess the difference lies.



    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  3. #3
    Hardtail Warrior
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    Well thats a bit of a drawback to me. I plan on doing a bit of mountainbiking with this bike. Im pretty new to it though so I didn't want to go out and spend $1000 on something just yet. Luckily I am only 135 lbs so I guess I should be fine.

    I mean it makes sense to make the frame the most important part since you can't fix a frame but you can upgrade things like FD and RD.

    My brother has a scott reflex and his is double butted. His bike weighs two more pounds than my ibex (well so it says on the website). I think I would personally rather have the two pounds and a sturdier frame. Either way Im still excited about getting my Ibex in.. Since I've waited eight days already...

    It better get here before I have to go to work at 3. I'm really getting tired of fedex because this is the third time this has happened to me this month.
    Last edited by opivyattack; 05-30-2006 at 12:19 PM.

  4. #4
    locked - time out
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    Good job! Alpine frames ROCK..

    Ive got a year on my Alp and not a single problem..Iam 200+ so I really dont think you need to worry about the frame handling your 135#..
    IBEX bikes are the best equipped-bang-4-da-buck rides around..So dont worry, be happy..

    Enjoy your new Ride, opivyattack..

    Jake Pay, POWERED by SRAM Here..

    EDIT: WELCOME TO THE FORUMS and THE IBEX FAMILY....
    Last edited by Pay Here; 05-30-2006 at 12:41 PM. Reason: CAUSE I FORGOT SOMETHING...

  5. #5
    Hardtail Warrior
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    I understand that and Im not concerned but I would like to know (as Im sure many others would too) what the exact reasoning is for this? Is it to save money? Is it to save weight? Does double butting not really help?

  6. #6
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    Butting is a way to save weight. The inside diameter is varied as needed to give strength where needed by adding thickness to the tube. Likewise, thinning where strength is not needed, in order to save weight.



    Without it, you have to use a thicker pipe to get a bike that is just as strong. On the otherhand, it is cheaper to make.

  7. #7
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    This whole experience is souring pretty fast for me...

    Not only did fedex totally blow the shipping which made me wait eight days for the bike (which I dont blame ibex for I have always had bad experiences with fedex) but now I am having a hard time assembling the bike. They put these black covers onto the front tire to prevent the center of the tire from getting damaged (I dont know what the technical term for that part where you put the quick release through onto the tire is) and I cant take one of the off. For some reason they make one really easy to take off but the other one is semi circular so I cant get a good grip on it. Apparently during shipping it got jammed in there pretty good and I cant get it off. I even tried putting the quick release halfway through and trying to force it off but that doesnt work either. Its been about an hour and Im still on the first step...

    I had a big trip planned tomorrow with my brother and some friends but that doesnt seem like its going to work out now.. The technical guy is off today so that doesnt work in my favor either.

  8. #8
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    I feel for ya on the FedEx thing, mine was delayed a day due to FedEx goofing up.
    As for the plastic cap, mine came off only a minor struggle. Have you tried some pliers on the plastic cover bit? It is disposable.

  9. #9
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    Ya pliers didnt work so I just used vice grips until the thing broke in half and fell off. My shipment was delayed four days because of fedex so that really irked me.

    So now I got everything done except im having a pretty large problem with the front V-brakes. I put the tire on but the brakes are crooked I guess you would say. The tire doesnt spin freely because the left brake pad rubs it solidly. How do you fix that? I tried loosening the bolt on the left brake that holds the wire and pulling the wire through so there was more tension on the left side. That didnt work and I dont know what to try next. I need this bike working tomorrow so any help is appreciated. Im off to work so I wont be able to respond to any comments. Thanks!

  10. #10
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    There should be an adjustment screw to adjust the spring tension on each side of the v-brakes.


    Heck, read the whole thing at ParkTools website, very cool stuff
    LINEAR PULL BRAKE SERVICE (V-BRAKE TYPE)

  11. #11
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    Thanks man I appreciate the help. I havent had a chance to try it out yet to see if it works but it probably will. Im a little annoyed by all this hassle that this became but overall I think it will be fine. I was a little stressed trying to put it together because I was running late for work since it took so long.

    I do have to say though that the frame looks very nice. I cant wait to ride it out tomorrow. The left break lever punctured through the shipping box so it is all scraped up but hopefully they will send me a new one. I called them today and they said they might send me some touch up paint but Im really going to push for a new lever because my new bike deserves a nice new lever.

    When I saw the pictures of the bike on the website I thought the way they wrote Alpine looked really cheesy and I still think that. Actually seeing it in person though it looks compeletely different and I think it looks awesome. One of the best features on the bike was that. I still really wish I got the pure white 550 because that bikes looks so clean. Im happy though. Thanks guys!

  12. #12
    ride hard take risks
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    Manufactures use alot of different types of aluminum like 7005 that is light weight so it needs to be thicker in areas of stress. Ibex uses 6061 aluminum that is very strong without excess weight.

    http://www.webmountainbike.com/maintenance.html

    http://www.parktool.com/repair/bikemap.asp

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/

  13. #13
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    That makes sense but my brothers scott reflex uses 6061 and I believe my old Specialized Hardrock Sport used 6061 as well.

  14. #14
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    Well I tried the adjustment screw that you showed me and it didnt help at all/ it needs major adjustment and that seems to be a very minor adjustment. Any other ideas?

  15. #15
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    Call Ibex

    Quote Originally Posted by opivyattack
    Well I tried the adjustment screw that you showed me and it didnt help at all/ it needs major adjustment and that seems to be a very minor adjustment. Any other ideas?
    More than likely they will walk you through the adjustment. If not they will probably pick upo the cost of having your LBS do the work.

    Bob
    'If Wal-Mart sold parachutes, who would jump?' Frank Havnoonian (quoting his father) Drexel Hill Cyclery

  16. #16
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    I'm not really the best bike mechanic but on my old Trek sometimes the v-brake rubbed when I removed and restored the front tire for transportation. In those cases what worked for me was re-setting the front tire. Undo the quick release and re-attach making sure the tire and fork are centered. Give the tire a spin and see if it has made any difference. Pretty basic but maybe it was overlooked.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by opivyattack
    Well I tried the adjustment screw that you showed me and it didnt help at all/ it needs major adjustment and that seems to be a very minor adjustment. Any other ideas?
    Did you do both sides? If so, try removing the noodle and inspect the two arms to make sure they both have sprin tension on them as you move them towards the center. Also check for binding. It sounds like you are getting past your comfort level in adjusting this, you might want to take it to a local bike shop for some quick help so you can get it out on the trail fast.

  18. #18
    ride hard take risks
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    Your brothers Scott uses 6061 hydroformed tubing & your old Spec uses there custom tubing.

    Use these links the Park Tool one is nice & basic.
    http://www.webmountainbike.com/maintenance.html

    http://www.parktool.com/repair/bikemap.asp

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/
    Last edited by dogonfr; 05-31-2006 at 08:42 AM.

  19. #19
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    Well I really feel like a moron because Im such a newbie but thank you for your help. Basically the tire was on crooked and once we straightened that up we just tightened the brakes and then did the minor adjustments and that seemed to work well. Thanks again!

  20. #20
    Company CSR
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    Butted Tubing

    OP,

    I think you're looking at the tubing issue backwards. Tubes have to be a certain thickness at the ends (butts) to take a weld properly. On butted tubing the middle is thinned down to save weight, but the ends are the same thickness as the plain guage tubing used for frame building. That means that the PG tubing is actually stronger along the middle run of the tube. However, that part of the tube that is thinner on the butted tubing is in a place where it is not required to be so strong. In riding there is no difference other than weight. You will find, however, that butted tubing will dent easier if you drop your frame against something so that the mid part of one of the tubes is struck the side.

    There is a considerable difference in cost between PG and butted tubing. We use butted tubing on higher-end models where that cost difference is less significant in the total price of the bike. On our Alpine series, the bikes would need to sell for about $50 to $100 more per bike with butted tubing.

    Regards,
    Jack A.
    IBEX Bicycles
    IBEX Bicycles Company CSR

    www.ibexbikes.com

  21. #21
    Hardtail Warrior
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    Thank you for the explanation. I appreciate knowing the little things about my bike such as that information

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