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  1. #401
    Sim
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    I know I'm on the cusp and can't decide. I'm currently riding an XL Process 134 with the old geometry. 40mm stem, 619 stack, 485 reach and 660 TT.
    The large TP with a 50 to 60 mm stem gets me in the same ballpark seated with a higher front end, which would be good.
    I miss my bar ends when climbing but I must admit it gives you an old school look!
    Thanks for the info, at this point I'm leaning Large.

  2. #402
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    Go large. I'm a hair under 6'3" and previously a XL Kona Process 153. The GG fits perfect.

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluidworks View Post
    Go large. I'm a hair under 6'3" and previously a XL Kona Process 153. The GG fits perfect.
    Thanks! It helps to hear from someone who is in the same situation.

  4. #404
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    FWIW- I am 6-3 with 34 inseam. Probably should have went Large per typical sizing recommendation. But I have long arms and upper body so went XL for the Reach and Stack offered in that size.
    I could not be happier. Absolutely perfect fitment. Running a 65 stem and 800mm bars. Most comfortable bike out of the 15 I've owned. Only bike that was close to this was my Manitou FS (rear forks) BITD, which was long, before long was the thing.
    PS-I should mention I have a 6-7 wingspan. Monkeys got nuthng on me!
    Last edited by chasejj; 09-06-2017 at 06:13 PM.

  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sim View Post
    I know I'm on the cusp and can't decide. I'm currently riding an XL Process 134 with the old geometry. 40mm stem, 619 stack, 485 reach and 660 TT.
    The large TP with a 50 to 60 mm stem gets me in the same ballpark seated with a higher front end, which would be good.
    I miss my bar ends when climbing but I must admit it gives you an old school look!
    Thanks for the info, at this point I'm leaning Large.
    Feel free to email or call us as well, if you haven't already. We can help guide you based on further sizing details (ie wingspan), riding preferences, and terrain.

  6. #406
    Hey, a Bright Shiny Thing
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    6'5" with 36" inseam. I initially ordered XL and changed to a Large, and am glad i did. Bottom line is everyone is a bit different, I'd call the GG shop and get their input, they will be able to help you decide. My only regret is I didn't get a purple frame.

  7. #407
    Sim
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtg7aa View Post
    Feel free to email or call us as well, if you haven't already. We can help guide you based on further sizing details (ie wingspan), riding preferences, and terrain.
    I have a 6"4" wingspan, 36" inseam. Was leaning towards the large because of the wheelbase now I'm thinking XL. I pedal most of the time 1 or 2 shuttles a year. Any help is appreciated.

  8. #408
    Sim
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    "6'5" with 36" inseam. I initially ordered XL and changed to a Large, and am glad i did. Bottom line is everyone is a bit different, I'd call the GG shop and get their input, they will be able to help you decide. My only regret is I didn't get a purple frame."

    Back to the large! Now I'm neurotic!!!!! Thanks for the input.

  9. #409
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    I forgot to say I have a 6'5" wingspan. Go L with 800 bars and you're good.

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluidworks View Post
    I forgot to say I have a 6'5" wingspan. Go L with 800 bars and you're good.
    I have 6"4" wingspan, so I'm still leaning large. I've emailed GG my dimensions and they are giving me a recommendation. I appreciate the help from everyone!

  11. #411
    Sim
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    Ordered a Black Large. Thanks for all the help!

  12. #412
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    Just received the Super Deluxe air. I'm going to ride tomorrow and then do a write up about the Pistol with coil vs. air.

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluidworks View Post
    Just received the Super Deluxe air. I'm going to ride tomorrow and then do a write up about the Pistol with coil vs. air.


    Not sure where you were at with sag on the coil spring, but most folks have been stoked on 30% sag with the air shocks. Based on feedback, that's now our baseline sag. So, try that first on the air shock.

    Note: our sag recommendations are measured in seated climbing position

  14. #414
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    Okay, just have to post this. Last weekend I hit the black diamond line ("Off The Grid" trail) on Tiger Mtn, WA on Saturday plus Duthie Hill park on Sunday. Then today I shuttled Alsea Falls, OR for 4 runs down Whistlepunk > Highballer > Springboard. Before that, Round Mtn and Lookout Mtn in the Ochocco NF, OR in late August. Between these four trail systems, there are steep climbs, drops, high speed sections, booters, doubles, rock gardens, tight bowl berms and plenty of flow, including plenty of ops for air time. I've been hitting it pretty hard throughout the past month after owning my Trail Pistol for a total of six months now. I really feel like I know this bike.

    This bike comes alive at speed. There's a sticker on the top tube that says, "I like goin' fast." When I got the bike I just thought that was a slogan; didn't mean much to me. I assumed GG put that on there to paraphrase the attitude of the company's bike purchasers. But after working this bike hard for months, including a spring road trip to Moab plus many miles in Oregon & Washington's real mountains with multi-thousand foot descents, I understand. Those words on the top tube ain't about me, they're about the bike. This bike comes alive at speed. The BIKE likes to go fast. The faster I go, the better it handles, the better the suspension responds and the more it rewards me. No question, the bike encourages me. I bought this bike just wanting a machine that fit me better than my previous whip but the Trail Pistol has absolutely upped my game. I'm taking on much more challenging terrain and features -- things I simply would never would have even considered before, stuff I never believed I could do -- not only with more confidence but with more safety in the execution. WAY confidence inspiring. A year ago I did not know I was capable of riding the way I'm riding today, and I've been riding mountain bikes since 1985.

    When I first got my TP, it didn't feel lively. Didn't seem to pop off stuff. I tried but it just didn't seem to want to. Honestly, I don't know what that was about because now I pop off stuff like crazy and the bike just seems to want to fly. What happened? I honestly can't say but in the short time I've owned it, this machine and I, we've become one and yes, it is indeed lively. I guess I made a leap. I understand how it moves. I really do fly and the bike is so easy to fly because it's lively and so predictable. It encourages me to hit stuff I used to take a pass on. Now I do so and it rewards me. So I'm more willing to stretch by looking at going to the next level. And I go there. I am already there. I love it.

    Within the first quarter mile on Tiger Mtn's black line, my riding buddies pulled over and told me to take the front. I'd been pushing them without even meaning to. I'm talking about a black diamond trail, a level of riding I was formerly not familiar with. But I simply rode away from them and I'm not bragging, just saying what happened. Like I said, it ain't about me. The Trail Pistol is a tool designed to do a specific job and OMG, does it ever get the job done. I can't believe how well designed this bike is for the task at hand. Wanna fly? This bike encourages me to fly.

    Are there other great bikes out there? Oh hell yes. I see guys on Yetis and Evils and Riots and Treks and Santa Cruzes (lots of Santa Cruzes) so I assume those guys know what they're doing as well, I don't know but assume so. Meanwhile I've got what I've got and damn, I know it's really good. As the saying goes, "Them that know, know they know. Them that don't know, don't know they don't know." Well, I know. My GG Trail Pistol is the real deal. It's made me a much better rider and honestly I wasn't bad before, just sayin'. I'm grateful to GG for knowing how to design and build a really sharp knife. I didn't know it could get this good.
    =sParty
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    We get old because we quit riding.

  15. #415
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    After receiving a Super deluxe air off of a pinkbike user I got the weekend to try the air vs. coil, and even did some back-to-back riding to directly compare. I have mentioned previously in this thread I lived in SoCal where 100% of my riding was long singletrack climbs to loooooong downhill runs on loose, rocky, sketchy terrain. Because of those conditions the coil was king; it never fatigued, overheated, or lost small bump compliance, especially compared to the regular (non-piggyback) deluxe shock. But when I moved to eastern Tennessee for the first time I found myself having to ride more slowly, with tight forests and slippery rocks and roots everywhere. The ability to blast down rock gardens at warp speed wasnít happening as much, and I started to miss the lighter weight and the poppy progression the air shock had. So, I decided to try both and decide which will work better for me here. Keep in mind, I never disliked the coil, I just felt like it might be over gunned for the majority of my riding. Iím also not a weight weenie, so the increased weight isnít a big deal to me.

    Saturday morning I started my ride in the urban wilderness here in Knoxville. I didnít plan on it, but the weather was so nice I ended up doing the entire south loop (https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/592...tem-south-loop). Itís 12.5 miles of riding, with a mix of rocky, chunky black diamond, to professionally built directional flow and jump trail, and miles of tight, twisty forest single track. Iíve ridden different sections previously with the coil, but for the day I did the entire loop and used the air. I carried the coil in my pack so I could switch when I wanted to directly compare.

    Setup: itís been a while since Iíve pumped up a shock, but the SD air was a breeze for me to get dialed. I followed Mattís advice for settings: 30% sag was at a much lower PSI than my old monarch, and I dialed rebound similar to the coil to keep it feeling as close as possible. It is nice having a coil simply for the ability to dial in preload on the trail without having to carry a pump. I kept one with me for the day, even though I never ended up using it after initial setup.

    Single track: I started off the ride with an up and down segment with some baby head boulders, square hits and g outs into mud pits. I forgot how progressive the air is compared to the coil, and I could preload and launch off everything I wanted to. The lighter weight wasnít a huge difference to me as mentioned previously, but I preferred riding higher in the travel that the air provided. While the traction was less than the coil could provide, the livelier feel was worth the small hit. If I had to choose, the air would win this category.

    Climbing: This surprised me, as honestly, I didnít find much difference between the two shocks. Maybe itís psychological, or maybe Iíve simply been used to the coil for a while, but I didnít see feel like I lost much to the air . I tried the middle compression setting on the air for a while during the smoother climbs, but spinning up in full open was easy as pie, and I settled on that for the traction increase. Square hits felt about the same between the two, but the small bump traction was definitely a bit better on the coil. Cleaning tech features was again, pretty similar. So overall, a wash between the two shocks.

    Black diamond downhill: I rode two of the more serious trails (https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/74743) and (https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/75971) in the south loop twice each (with each shock) and here is where I absolutely saw some greater difference between the two. My overall experience was the air was more composed at slower speeds; I never felt the rear skipping out even under off camber loose braking, and slower brake bumps were no big deal. Once speeds got higher, the air definitely lost out to the coil. It really is amazing how much traction a steel spring has when youíre flying down a trail. The drops, the chunder, the boulders, it shook them all off. As Hunter S. Thompson said ďFaster, Faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.Ē I never found myself out of control on the coil, it only wanted more speed. I did find myself blowing through all the travel, but the rubber bumper did a great job of stopping the travel without making me never feel like I would be bounced off. Conversely, compared to the air it felt much more dead at slower speeds. Even though the small bump compliance is better, it felt more like plodding along at slower speed, composed and maybe a bit sluggish. Overall the gnralier the terrain, the better the coil works, but for slower speeds, it took some of the fun out of the downhill.

    Flow and jump lines: Towards the end of my ride I got to Baker Creek, which has the areaís directional downhill trails. This is where the air really shined for me, as I ride here most often and am most used to the trails. The progressive and playful nature of the air was awesome; sections I had to pump before were now micro launch pads, and I felt like a feather popping off everything. Casing a couple of the bigger doubles let me run through most of the travel, but I never blew the O ring off, thanks to the air volume reducers installed. The coilís more linear feel made it easier to preload smoothly for clearing bigger gaps, but the air just made me feel like a hooligan (and I liked it.) Iím giving the air the win for this category.

    Summary: I donít think thereís a clear and distinct winner here, as peopleís riding style, geography and preferences will always outweigh a few grams or a few seconds on strava. However, because I personally prefer a progressive feel and like to fly off everything on the trail, the air suits me better for 80% of my riding. For everything else the coil would be definitely preferred. As air shocks have improved with the times and the divide between the two technologies has closed, I donít think most people could go wrong with either option, and if finances permit, having both on hand would be the best of both worlds.

  16. #416
    AOK
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    How much room does the TP seat tube have for a dropper? Was thinking about replacing my 150mm dropper with a longer travel version and want to make sure it will fit.

  17. #417
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    AOK, it depends on how much dropper post you have showing above the clamp. If it is fairly slammed already, you won't get a longer one in. I tried a 170 reverb and couldn't get it all the way in. By guestimate, you'd need about 60mm+ showing. However, the Bike Yoke 160mm is shorter body/install wise than a 150mm Reverb and fits in a treat. FYI

  18. #418
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    XL sizing

    An XL has about an inch longer top tube (I believe). This means I would be running about a 40mm stem on an XL, which I think is about right. And the XL has a longer head tube which means fewer spacers under the stem.

    Yes, the wheelbase would be EVEN longer on an XL but the length of this bike doesn't bother me at all. I negotiate tight switchbacks all the time -- up or down -- without even thinking about it. I'd be fine on an even longer bike.

    If I had it to do over again, yeah, I'd buy the XL. But keep in mind what I said previously -- I'm delighted with the bike as it is. Really. Guess I'm not helping much, am I. Sorry. But all kidding aside, I don't think you'll go wrong either way.

    Good luck.
    =sParty



    Just thought I would chime in FWIW,

    I have an XL TP, 130/140 set up. I was drawn to GG TP cause its made in the good ole USA but also cause the head tube is sized appropriately (meaning L and XL dont have the same size). I am 6'5", 36-34 inseam and monkey arms (near 8' wing span). The bike fits me the best of any bike I have ever had. I credit the heat tube length and the straight seat tube. That said the reach could be longer for me. I have a 40 mm stem with seat pushed all the way back and I find myself wishing for a longer top tube to get behind the front of the bike more when ripping downhills. Sure I could go longer stem but thats a compromise in bike geometry/handling in my opinion. Would a longer top tube make an already long bike too long? Not sure. I have never found the current length to be an issue. My current Pike has 51 mm offset, should have gone with the 46 (or shorter) which would help shorten the long wheel base and make the steering a little less twitchy I think.

  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    How much room does the TP seat tube have for a dropper? Was thinking about replacing my 150mm dropper with a longer travel version and want to make sure it will fit.
    I have a Lg TP with a 175mm KS LEV (thanks GG for offering this as an upgrade) and have the post very close to bottomed out on something inside the seat tube with 16mm of post showing between the seat clamp and the collar on the post.

    Based on the drawings on the KS site, I'm going to say the max insertion is right about 220mm of post (or 250mm including the mechanism at the bottom - I'm really not sure which part hits first.)

    Dimensions here in case you want to study the dimensions on my post:
    http://www.kssuspension.com/wp-conte...ra-Drawing.pdf

  20. #420
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    GG Morphing Issues

    The biggest problem with owning any Guerilla Gravity is the morphing issues. One moment you can be riding a Trail Pistol, a single track rocket and just a generally very naughty bike. And the next thing you know it morphs into a bike with criminal intent and becomes a trail ransacker and getaway vehicle all in one.

    I love the Trail Pistol, it is fast and it get's after it. The GG ratings are true (8, 11,8,2). But as a Pistola set up,

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-gg-tp-23.jpg

    drop the XC down one point (imo) and add some more in further up the chart and you can go off the chart a little harder.

    It is plenty of fun. Just a tad slower on the XC stuff and on the ups, not much, barely noticeable. But turning down and you have a greater margin for reckless behaviour ably aided by a coil, the traction is ridiculously good.

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-gg-tp-11-6.jpg

    It still has that Trial Pistol leverage curve, so it has an underlying eagerness to chase speed when stomping on the pedals.

    The first couple of rides have been positive, I think that the little bit of extra travel suits the breadth of my riding terrain and approach. Don't under rate the Trial Pistol though, it is very very good. I have done over a 1000kms in this set up. And might I add here, this has been the cheapest bike to run and maintain for me for a while.

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-gg-tp-28.jpg

    When you have a GG it behooves you to try all its guises, and abuse them for all they are worth.

  21. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamK View Post
    The biggest problem with owning any Guerilla Gravity is the morphing issues. One moment you can be riding a Trail Pistol, a single track rocket and just a generally very naughty bike. And the next thing you know it morphs into a bike with criminal intent and becomes a trail ransacker and getaway vehicle all in one.

    I love the Trail Pistol, it is fast and it get's after it. The GG ratings are true (8, 11,8,2). But as a Pistola set up,

    Click image for larger version. 

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    drop the XC down one point (imo) and add some more in further up the chart and you can go off the chart a little harder.

    It is plenty of fun. Just a tad slower on the XC stuff and on the ups, not much, barely noticeable. But turning down and you have a greater margin for reckless behaviour ably aided by a coil, the traction is ridiculously good.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It still has that Trial Pistol leverage curve, so it has an underlying eagerness to chase speed when stomping on the pedals.

    The first couple of rides have been positive, I think that the little bit of extra travel suits the breadth of my riding terrain and approach. Don't under rate the Trial Pistol though, it is very very good. I have done over a 1000kms in this set up. And might I add here, this has been the cheapest bike to run and maintain for me for a while.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    When you have a GG it behooves you to try all its guises, and abuse them for all they are worth.
    Damn, that really makes me want a Trail Pistol. If I recall correctly, the GG site used to give you the option of a 55 mm stroke rear shock to bump the travel up to 130 mm but I don't see that as an option anymore. Is that no longer supported/encouraged?

  22. #422
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    sure mtg7qq will chime in. Think they wanted to differentiate their line up with the introduction of the Smash

  23. #423
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    Yes, the 55mm stroke version of the Trail Pistol was dropped with the introduction of The Smash due to overlap. However, it's not discouraged from using that setup at all, and I'm still running my Trail Pistol with a 55mm stroke Super Deluxe Coil.

    If you want to order a Trail Pistol with the 55mm stroke shock, you can still do so. It's an off-menu option, just call or email. 303-955-4163 or Bikes@RideGG.com

  24. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamK View Post
    The biggest problem with owning any Guerilla Gravity is the morphing issues. One moment you can be riding a Trail Pistol, a single track rocket and just a generally very naughty bike. And the next thing you know it morphs into a bike with criminal intent and becomes a trail ransacker and getaway vehicle all in one.

    I love the Trail Pistol, it is fast and it get's after it. The GG ratings are true (8, 11,8,2). But as a Pistola set up,

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	GG TP 23.jpg 
Views:	123 
Size:	185.7 KB 
ID:	1158783

    drop the XC down one point (imo) and add some more in further up the chart and you can go off the chart a little harder.

    It is plenty of fun. Just a tad slower on the XC stuff and on the ups, not much, barely noticeable. But turning down and you have a greater margin for reckless behaviour ably aided by a coil, the traction is ridiculously good.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	GG TP 11 6.jpg 
Views:	87 
Size:	107.2 KB 
ID:	1158784

    It still has that Trial Pistol leverage curve, so it has an underlying eagerness to chase speed when stomping on the pedals.

    The first couple of rides have been positive, I think that the little bit of extra travel suits the breadth of my riding terrain and approach. Don't under rate the Trial Pistol though, it is very very good. I have done over a 1000kms in this set up. And might I add here, this has been the cheapest bike to run and maintain for me for a while.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	GG TP 28.jpg 
Views:	94 
Size:	197.1 KB 
ID:	1158785

    When you have a GG it behooves you to try all its guises, and abuse them for all they are worth.
    You have a megatrail with a coil as well yes? How do the two compare now that you've given the TP some longer legs?

  25. #425
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    They have a lot of similarities and yet there are many differences, confused yet. The similarities are cockpit, geo and position, especially attack position. It is super easy to jump between bikes.

    They are different beast. GG executed the design brief here. When looking at numbers it may appear subtle but as an aggregate they come together to make them what they are. The ratings that GG post on the web page are true and accurate indicators - an MT rates Big Mtn 11 and Gravity 8. A TP rates 8 and 2 respectively.

    I can understand GG trying to remove confusion between a Pistola and a Smash. However, they are still very different bikes imo. The Smash with the inherited MT (gravity) leverage curve would and does score much higher than a TP, easily.

    The coil and travel on a Pistola moves the ability traits to the right sure. But it is way short of a Smash and MT. There's too much spunk in the TP leverage curve therefore it can't have as much suspension absorption as a Smash, it has a different nature for gravity work. Ride a trail bike down black runs or ride an enduro bike down black runs, both fun but both different applications.

    What I am trying to say, the TP has that poise, but, you can climb for days (has class leading seating position, and bags of efficiency), you can puddle a long, you can crank up the cadence, imagine wearing lycra and get your XC on while drawing on its underlying genetics to motto all features and corners along the way. And you can turn down the gravity trails and overspeed the bike, yet not feel like going OTBs and laugh at your survival. It is versatile but steep high speed and chunk means it will run out of travel quickly. Trail orientated leverage curve will give so much, a coil will extend the window but in the end it is just an excuse for more trail bike abuse. The Smash and MT will always have a greater gravity nature. Don't know if that ramble helps.

  26. #426
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    Great testimonial Sparty. Well written and passionate. Makes me want to ride a Trail Pistol. Looks like you've got some front page fodder for your site, Matt.

    Oh, BTW. Thanks to the moderator(s) for finally correcting my typo on the title of this thread. Although I do still kinda like the alternate name.
    I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth...
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  27. #427
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    I keep coming back to the GG stuff because 1) its made in the USA 2) the folks at GG seem to understand our desire as more cost conscience consumers to get more versatility out of their bikes. I think many GG riders are will to play with various travel lengths, various wheel sizes, etc.

    I rode a 29er hardtail until 2013 when I got on the 275 train with a 150/160mm bike. I quickly started experimenting with larger tires, finally settling on 275x2.6 tires. Rode the bike to pieces in mid 2017, literally. Now in an effort to better match "bash down the mountain" riding style, I'm on a 160mm/170mm Commencal that is limited to 2.5 tires. The BB is super low. The weight is good for a bike of this travel, but certainly way past trail bike territory. If it could fit 29er wheels and tires (lifting the BB in the process) I'd probably keep it.

    As quickly as I felt I needed more, now I've gone too far!

    If I can sell my 3 months old Commencal Meta AM v4.2 I'll be torn between two replacements: The Trail Pistol and the Smash.

    The Trail Pistol, especially in 55mm stroke option seems like a great rowdy bike that has the ability to ride all day. I'm not in love with the weight, however, especially for a 120mm bike. 120mm is still an XC bike to me. A lot of short travel alloy bikes suffer from "too much weight relative of travel". I feel like once a bike crosses into 120mm travel range it needs the ability to be built to 26-27lbs in size Large, which I'm afraid barring a "full carbon no dropper" with super light tires, the Trail Pistol will never be. On the opposite end of the spectrum, I feel that while the 55mm stroke shock still leave a little bit more travel on the table (57.5 stroke with 275x2.8 tires?) I think the Trail Pistol is interference limited to 135ish travel.

    The Smash, on the hand, especially with the ability to possibly run a 60mm shock at 150mm travel becomes a very competitive-weight long travel 275+/29er. I could see running 275x2.6 tires and 160mm fork on the Smash with a 60mm stroke shock. Plus, since the frames are so close in weight (TP vs Smash), there is nothing saying you couldn't shock limit (50mm stroke) the travel of the Smash, upper the suspension pressures and have a burly 140/130 trail bike that would (aside from suspension kematics) be nearly identical to the Pistola.

    If the Trail Pistol were lighter in Size Large with shock (under 7lbs) I could be tempted to forgo the longer travel in favor of lighter weight, but I think in many situations the Smash is the more versatile bike.
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  28. #428
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    It sounds to me like The Smash is what you're looking for.

    And, for the versatility aspect, changing air pressure in the shock is definitely a good way to change a bike's characteristics. Additionally, on The Smash, the Crush Mode and Plush Mode switch does a similar change.

  29. #429
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    The smash can run a 150 shock for the rear travel? Thought it was 140?

  30. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by letsgo View Post
    The smash can run a 150 shock for the rear travel? Thought it was 140?
    Details on this....interest me greatly....#subscribed

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    I'm in the market for a new frame and the GG Smash is on my radar for a ~140mm travel option. It seems like a cool ride and company and the price is good. Here is my hangup: My buddy is a Santa Cruz dealer and I can get a Hightower (or HT LT) frame for about the same price as a GG frame.

    I like carbon as it is plenty strong and comes in lighter than alum in most cases. My tallboy c has been a great frame for the last few years. So what would sway me to get a GG frame? Anyone with extensive time on a Hightower and a Smash? Thoughts?

    Thanks

  32. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by pryde1 View Post
    I'm in the market for a new frame and the GG Smash is on my radar for a ~140mm travel option. It seems like a cool ride and company and the price is good. Here is my hangup: My buddy is a Santa Cruz dealer and I can get a Hightower (or HT LT) frame for about the same price as a GG frame.

    I like carbon as it is plenty strong and comes in lighter than alum in most cases. My tallboy c has been a great frame for the last few years. So what would sway me to get a GG frame? Anyone with extensive time on a Hightower and a Smash? Thoughts?

    Thanks
    I don't have extensive time on either, but it seems like to me for roughly the same money the kit is a little nicer on the Smash, with the whole thing being geared a little more towards durability and reliability. If carbon is your thing, you won't get it from GG. But I also feel like I'm getting more than just a name for my money if I buy a GG. Granted, SC bikes have a really good reputation, I'm not yucking them. I honestly don't think you can make a bad choice between the two.

  33. #433
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    I think honestly, the only way to know is to ride both. I'm in the Alu love books myself after seeing carbon framed builds not come up much lighter than my alu frame build, but cost $1k> more. I know for sure my frame can take a licking without worry, can lay it down on our coral and just pick it up and go again, not so with carbon.

    Quote Originally Posted by pryde1 View Post
    I'm in the market for a new frame and the GG Smash is on my radar for a ~140mm travel option. It seems like a cool ride and company and the price is good. Here is my hangup: My buddy is a Santa Cruz dealer and I can get a Hightower (or HT LT) frame for about the same price as a GG frame.

    I like carbon as it is plenty strong and comes in lighter than alum in most cases. My tallboy c has been a great frame for the last few years. So what would sway me to get a GG frame? Anyone with extensive time on a Hightower and a Smash? Thoughts?

    Thanks
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  34. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    I think honestly, the only way to know is to ride both. I'm in the Alu love books myself after seeing carbon framed builds not come up much lighter than my alu frame build, but cost $1k> more. I know for sure my frame can take a licking without worry, can lay it down on our coral and just pick it up and go again, not so with carbon.
    No way for me to really ride a Smash. Don't have any dealers that I am aware of in Western NC.

    Also wondering how much different is the Smash (140mm) vs the Pistola (130mm). Are they the same frame essentially? I am equally interested in how well the bike climbs vs how well it descends. Tons of climbing here in the mountains so it needs to be a good going up.

  35. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by pryde1 View Post
    No way for me to really ride a Smash. Don't have any dealers that I am aware of in Western NC.

    Also wondering how much different is the Smash (140mm) vs the Pistola (130mm). Are they the same frame essentially? I am equally interested in how well the bike climbs vs how well it descends. Tons of climbing here in the mountains so it needs to be a good going up.
    Speaking for what Matt has said previously, there is a lot of overlap between the Pistola setup and the Smash, which is why they aren't offering the 130mm shock option on the site anymore.

    That said, the pedaling on the GG bikes are incredible, even having ridden the Megatrail (much more travel than my trail pistol) it was still remarkable for its seated climbing capabilities. I'd imagine the Smash is even better, more akin to my TP.

    In regards to the SC vs the GG, I don't think either option is is a poor choice, but if it were me I'd lean for the Smash. My regular riding partner back in California had the HT, and I got to put a lot of time on the saddle. Currently, I don't live too far from you in Eastern Tennessee (Knoxville) and I make trips to Pisgah, so our riding terrain is similar.

    First reason is I prefer the sizing and longer reach the GG bikes offer. After riding this type of geo for a while, going back to a shorter bike (Santa Cruz) with a longer stem doesn't feel as natural as these longer wheelbases with short stems. It's easier for me to get that "in the bike" feel I prefer rather than perched over it.

    Secondly is the weight, my L pistola frame was less than 7 lbs, for a burly, strongly welded frame made right here in the USA for a very fair price. The carbon HT is marginally lighter, but to me not worth the price premium you pay for it.

    Third: seat angle. The GG bikes have a very steep effective angle, which makes chugging up the steepest trail no problem. If your lungs can handle it, the bike will too. I've been getting used to the constant up and down you find in this part of the country, so the ability to handle dozens of those punchy climbs is a god send.

    Finally: the company. Super friendly, super flexible with orders, anytime I have had a question I can get Matt (owner and engineer) or any of the other guys and girls on the phone, every time I call. This is a benefit that adds to the entire value of the bike/manufacturer/owner relationship.

    If you have any questions let me know, and if you ever drive up to Knoxville to ride the urban wilderness or surrounding areas you're welcome to try my bike to see how it feels.

  36. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lithified View Post
    Details on this....interest me greatly....#subscribed

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    Travel on these bikes is often limited primarily by tire size and contact with the seat tube. We know the Megatrail V2 and Shredd Dog are the same frame with a different shock stroke. We also know the Megatrail and Smash aren't too different either.

    It has been mentioned in other posts that to nudge a bit more travel out of the Smash, opening up the stroke may be possible (it ships with an odd sized 57.5 stroke 230mm i2i shock). GG probably can't endorse such toying officially, because if the tire does contact the seat tube it's bad news, but if you're running a tire that's much much smaller than intended (say 275x2.6), it might allow plenty of room for a few extra MM of travel.

    The Hightower folks were essentially doing this prior to the Hightower LT. Stock stroke was 51, they were using 57mm stroke shocks to get an extra 15mm of travel out of the bikes, but you had to be careful with tire selection.

    I think the same thing could be done with the Smash. We're not talking a big change in travel, and you might be limited in 29er tires to a 2.3, but it'd be an interesting experiment.
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  37. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluidworks View Post
    Speaking for what Matt has said previously, there is a lot of overlap between the Pistola setup and the Smash, which is why they aren't offering the 130mm shock option on the site anymore.

    That said, the pedaling on the GG bikes are incredible, even having ridden the Megatrail (much more travel than my trail pistol) it was still remarkable for its seated climbing capabilities. I'd imagine the Smash is even better, more akin to my TP.

    In regards to the SC vs the GG, I don't think either option is is a poor choice, but if it were me I'd lean for the Smash. My regular riding partner back in California had the HT, and I got to put a lot of time on the saddle. Currently, I don't live too far from you in Eastern Tennessee (Knoxville) and I make trips to Pisgah, so our riding terrain is similar.

    First reason is I prefer the sizing and longer reach the GG bikes offer. After riding this type of geo for a while, going back to a shorter bike (Santa Cruz) with a longer stem doesn't feel as natural as these longer wheelbases with short stems. It's easier for me to get that "in the bike" feel I prefer rather than perched over it.

    Secondly is the weight, my L pistola frame was less than 7 lbs, for a burly, strongly welded frame made right here in the USA for a very fair price. The carbon HT is marginally lighter, but to me not worth the price premium you pay for it.

    Third: seat angle. The GG bikes have a very steep effective angle, which makes chugging up the steepest trail no problem. If your lungs can handle it, the bike will too. I've been getting used to the constant up and down you find in this part of the country, so the ability to handle dozens of those punchy climbs is a god send.

    Finally: the company. Super friendly, super flexible with orders, anytime I have had a question I can get Matt (owner and engineer) or any of the other guys and girls on the phone, every time I call. This is a benefit that adds to the entire value of the bike/manufacturer/owner relationship.

    If you have any questions let me know, and if you ever drive up to Knoxville to ride the urban wilderness or surrounding areas you're welcome to try my bike to see how it feels.
    Really appreciate the details and the offer to check out your ride. The large pistol(a) or smash is what I would like to try out (6'1" long arms and legs).

    It is good to read that the GG's pedal well as much of the riding here in Pisgah is grinding up miles of fire roads and technical single track.

    One big negative I see with the SC HT is the lower linkage gets all of the rear wheel debris thrown in it and causes problems with creaking and bearing wear. As you know, Pisgah is often wet, grimy, and grainy so bearings get smoked here quick if constantly flogged with muck.

    I really think the pistol. pistola, or smash would be a great bike for WNC.

  38. #438
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    One additional thing to think about is that you can get a GG bike spec'd with a custom tuned Push 11-6 for the cost of most carbon bikes with a basic rear shock. The weight difference is minimal for carbon vs. aluminum AND you are getting a frame hand made in the U.S of A.....

  39. #439
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    To throw in my two cents, I've ridden both the HT and the Smash, and the Smash pedals much better to me, in both modes. The HT suspension feels very middle-of-the-road IMO, certainly stable but not especially plush or poppy - and you can choose either feel on the Smash, as your mood dictates. I also agree about the geo being better suited for today's trail rider, with the steeper seat tube angle really playing a huge role on the climbs.

    I will also throw in a vote for the durability of AL, as just today I got a big scratch in my bike when my rear wheel got hung up climbing through a tricky, rocky switchback. I had to dab to the low side, over a large rock, which my frame hit. A carbon bike would have had much more damage, my Spot Rollik (which has a very thin carbon top tube) would have and a hole gouged in it for sure.

  40. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by pryde1 View Post
    No way for me to really ride a Smash. Don't have any dealers that I am aware of in Western NC.
    If you don't mind driving a bit, Sixes Pit bike shop in Canton, GA has GG demos. Depending on where you are in WNC that is probably a 3-4 hour drive.

  41. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by pryde1 View Post
    It is good to read that the GG's pedal well as much of the riding here in Pisgah is grinding up miles of fire roads and technical single track.

    I really think the pistol. pistola, or smash would be a great bike for WNC.
    A few quick thoughts- if you're looking at the Hightower C, not the CC, then the weight difference is about 4 ounces from what I can find. Not really a lot.
    Scars from crashes disappear with some sandpaper and a scotch bright pad on the raw GG frames. Not so much with carbon.
    The Pistola, and presumably the Smash too, climbs amazingly well. Short, punchy climbs or tech twisty climbs are a blast. Long dirt roads still get boring, but that's not the bike's fault. Lock out if you need it, but I use it less than 25% of the time.
    The Pistola has 3 great personalities- seated climbing, standing pedaling, and of course, pointed downhill. The steep seat angle helps it climb. The short cs length makes it fun when standing, and the longer wheelbase makes it confident downhill. I find myself powering small wheelies out of every turn, just because it's so fun.
    Btw, I'm in central Idaho- lots of rocks, lots of climbing, lots of trees, not a lot of people so the trails are twisty and can be rough and after 6 months, I'm still blown away by this bike. Oh, and I'm running mine as 29er fwiw.

  42. #442
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    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol

    This bike is currently at the top of my list as my first FS 29er. It's pretty close to the geo i would consider for this type of bike. Yes I'd prefer a solid 66į with a 140 fork but I know thats being seriously anal.

    I do have a few concerns based on reading reviews about this bike I was hoping to get some additional rider feedback on.

    At least three separate reviews describe the bike as feeling harsh when things get rough and fast. I'd typically chalk this up to poor suspension set up however it seems unusual that all these reviewers would get it wrong plus the kinematics don't appear to be very unusual, what's your take?

    One review claimed the BB height measured at 333mm vs the GG spec of 338 (with a 130 fork) a significant difference can anyone confirm the height in 29er mode?

    Finally a couple of reviews suggested the bike felt lumbering and a handful to maneuver. The geo for a 29er of this type suggest it would be pretty nimble what say you?

    There were mentions of sizing issues but I can chat with GG for assistance on that should I decide to pull the trigger.

    Thanks a lot!
    Last edited by geraldooka; 10-21-2017 at 09:31 PM.
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  43. #443
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    Hey Michael,
    I think many are trying to convey an overlying trait. The bike is fast and likes to go fast. What is felt is merely a function of the travel that is available.

    The bike is spot on geo wise, it is inherently stable. So when you dive down a DH run, it doesn't feel out of context. Yet it is totally out of context, it is a 120mm trail bike. It is very capable and reassuring. You can charge into stuff confidently. But, you will simply run out of travel, even when that happens, the bike is still very composed.

    Compared to a 160mm travel bike (27.5), it doesn't sag as much for normal riding, but it sure can pedal. Compared to a 160mm travel bike, it doesn't eat up chop as much, but is sure can roll through it.

    It's a ripper 120mm bike. And I am currently very impressed with the 130mm rear set up. By the way, I love it at less than 66 HA to.

    If it doesn't work out at 120mm you can always run it at 130mm on the rear. That broadens its scope some. Good luck, it is a worthy contender for the top of your list.

  44. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamK View Post
    Hey Michael,
    I think many are trying to convey an overlying trait. The bike is fast and likes to go fast. What is felt is merely a function of the travel that is available.

    The bike is spot on geo wise, it is inherently stable. So when you dive down a DH run, it doesn't feel out of context. Yet it is totally out of context, it is a 120mm trail bike. It is very capable and reassuring. You can charge into stuff confidently. But, you will simply run out of travel, even when that happens, the bike is still very composed.

    Compared to a 160mm travel bike (27.5), it doesn't sag as much for normal riding, but it sure can pedal. Compared to a 160mm travel bike, it doesn't eat up chop as much, but is sure can roll through it.

    It's a ripper 120mm bike. And I am currently very impressed with the 130mm rear set up. By the way, I love it at less than 66 HA to.

    If it doesn't work out at 120mm you can always run it at 130mm on the rear. That broadens its scope some. Good luck, it is a worthy contender for the top of your list.
    Thanks for your insight William. I currently ride a Knolly Endo 27.5 with 130mm, perhaps it's leverage curve is progressive enough for my 155lb riding weight that it doesn't seem to matter. I also run it with an air shock so that helps. Re head angle do you mean is higher than 66į?
    Michael

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  45. #445
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    Hi Kids,

    I've been riding the trail pistol for a couple of months now (140 Pike up front) and for those of you riding it as a plus bike, I'd encourage experimentation with the Crush setting on the flip chip. I left my flip chip in Crush the last time I switched back from 29er wheels and I think it is better for me personally. Definitely have to be more careful with pedal strikes but I think it seems qualitatively better for smashing with plus wheels... Just my 2 cents. Anyone else played around?

    Oh yeah, the bike passes the Moab test big time.

    Finally, I've ridden with both the coil and air shock and I think that the 120mm Deluxe (air) is a special one. I think I like it better than the coil. YMMV. Love this bike!!

  46. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayndar View Post
    A few quick thoughts- if you're looking at the Hightower C, not the CC, then the weight difference is about 4 ounces from what I can find. Not really a lot.
    Scars from crashes disappear with some sandpaper and a scotch bright pad on the raw GG frames. Not so much with carbon.
    The Pistola, and presumably the Smash too, climbs amazingly well. Short, punchy climbs or tech twisty climbs are a blast. Long dirt roads still get boring, but that's not the bike's fault. Lock out if you need it, but I use it less than 25% of the time.
    The Pistola has 3 great personalities- seated climbing, standing pedaling, and of course, pointed downhill. The steep seat angle helps it climb. The short cs length makes it fun when standing, and the longer wheelbase makes it confident downhill. I find myself powering small wheelies out of every turn, just because it's so fun.
    Btw, I'm in central Idaho- lots of rocks, lots of climbing, lots of trees, not a lot of people so the trails are twisty and can be rough and after 6 months, I'm still blown away by this bike. Oh, and I'm running mine as 29er fwiw.
    Totally agree, I actually had the Hightower CC and rode it for about 10 months before I pulled the trigger on a GG Trail Pistola. My local bike shop started carrying and demo-ing GGs, and I demoed the DH, Megatrail, Pedalhead, and the Trail Pistol. I also rode my buddy's Trail Pistol a few times, along with a factory demo from GG. Long story short. . . . ditched the Santa Cruz and am very happy with the Trail Pistol. I swapped all the parts from SC to GG and the weight difference is nothing compared to how much more fun I have riding the GG. It climbs better and descends better than the SC. Currently running it as a 29er with 150 mm MRP Ribbon and in Crush mode. My buddy is running his with 27+ wheels and loves it too. Stoked it is made in house, and when I scratch it I just also use a 3M pad to buff it out. Anyone that is considering this bike - go for it - or at least demo it!
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  47. #447
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    I have an angleset headset with -.5 degrees and adjusted my MRP Ribbon to 150mm - I think my effective HA is 65.3 degrees - thing shreds and surprisingly doesn't wander on the climbs. It's never felt harsh - My SC HT felt harsh sometimes - the GG allows me to let go of the brakes and hit stuff at more speed than I was ever comfortable with. I have come into some scetchy sections of our local trails way too hot and the GG takes it -
    If you cannot change the world, maybe you should just change yourself. Tom Petty

  48. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpbspt View Post
    I have an angleset headset with -.5 degrees and adjusted my MRP Ribbon to 150mm - I think my effective HA is 65.3 degrees - thing shreds and surprisingly doesn't wander on the climbs. It's never felt harsh - My SC HT felt harsh sometimes - the GG allows me to let go of the brakes and hit stuff at more speed than I was ever comfortable with. I have come into some scetchy sections of our local trails way too hot and the GG takes it -
    Glad to see you have history with a SC HT and prefer the GG Pistol. I am currently debating a Hightower or a GG (Smash or Pistol not sure). I currently ride a Tallboy (v2) and love the handling and climbing but it suffers on the fast, rocky downhills with 100mm rear travel.

    I rode a Hightower LT and really didn't care for it unless pointing down. I felt it was pretty sluggish on climbs and twisty stuff. Unfortunately I cant really demo a GG in my area.

  49. #449
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    Hey Gerald, Under 66 į is what I meant.

    I am saying it is approx 65į HA as I have to question the accuracy of using an app to measure angle. The claims and charts estimate 64.8į should be the number. 65į is near enough in my mind and I am really liking it.

    I concur with mpbspt's findings.

  50. #450
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    The steep ST angle puts you in a great position for climbing, and I feel it was a better climbing platform than the HT, even when I leave the shock in Trail Mode - I only lock it out on smooth, fire road climbs if I even remember to. It definitely smashes the HT on descents - and that's not just because I have the super-deluxe on it - I've ridden three other TP's - one demo with a standard shock/no piggyback -
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  51. #451
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    Oh yeah, the "coffee grinder" on the HT was a pain - on wet days all the debris and little rocks would end up there and grind - bearings were shot - and it doesn't rain much over here in Central CA - SC does offer free bearing replacements, though. . . . sizing is more true to size with too, I rode a Large SC, and now have a Medium GG TP - I'm 5'9" with long-ish arms
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  52. #452
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    Can anyone tell me what long shocking the TP does to the B.B. height and HTA? Iím guessing itíll steepen it quite a bit and raise the whole bike up?
    Front Range, Colorado

  53. #453
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    Another thing to keep in mind is that you've only got so much space between the link the seat tube. I'd think long-shocking it by a substantial amount (20mm?) could create interference between the link and seat tube....bad news.

    Maybe, just maybe you could use offset bushings to shorten the i2i of the shock by 10mm, combined with running it in the slightly longer position of flip chip might get you there without interference issues, but there again, who knows.

    Take a look at this pic for the space between link and seat tube:
    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-trailpistol_detail-4.jpg
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  54. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Another thing to keep in mind is that you've only got so much space between the link the seat tube. I'd think long-shocking it by a substantial amount (20mm?) could create interference between the link and seat tube....bad news.

    Maybe, just maybe you could use offset bushings to shorten the i2i of the shock by 10mm, combined with running it in the slightly longer position of flip chip might get you there without interference issues, but there again, who knows.

    Take a look at this pic for the space between link and seat tube:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hmm itís a 15mm change and from what I understand gg used to market this before the smash?
    Front Range, Colorado

  55. #455
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    They were not long shocking (increasing i2i) they were long stroking it (55mm vs stock 50mm), which you can still do to create the Pistola (130mm rear travel). This changes no geometry, just allows the rear wheel to come a little bit closer to the seat tube in its travel arch.

  56. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    They were not long shocking (increasing i2i) they were long stroking it (55mm vs stock 50mm), which you can still do to create the Pistola (130mm rear travel). This changes no geometry, just allows the rear wheel to come a little bit closer to the seat tube in its travel arch.
    Thanks, that's what I meant.
    Front Range, Colorado

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    Streetdoctor, what Pheller said is correct. Before The Smash, the Trail Pistol could be configured when purchased with a 210x50 shock or 210x55. Note the fully extended eye to eye lengths are the same, it's the stroke that was different. So, the fully compressed length is shorter on the Pistola option (55mm stroke, 130mm rear travel) because it travels past the bottom out point of the 210x50 configuration. Top out geometry was the same between the two travel settings.

    And, as Pheller also mentioned, there is more tire clearance to the seat tube at bottom out with the 120mm travel option, hence the ability to run 29x2.6, whereas the 130mm travel option is limited to 29x2.4. But that's at bottom out, it doesn't affect top out geometry numbers.

    When The Smash debuted, that option was removed* to keep things simple for riders looking for a new bike.

    Make sense? Any further questions?


    *If you buy a new Trail Pistol with a Push ELEVENSIX, it comes in 210x55 only, so the Pistola technically lives on.

  58. #458
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    Does this mean that if I have a 11-6, I won't be able to run 2.6 tires on my 29" wheelset?
    I've been waiting for the Rekon 2.6's and placed an order for the NN cause I got tired of waiting for Maxxis to release them....

  59. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by azfishman View Post
    Does this mean that if I have a 11-6, I won't be able to run 2.6 tires on my 29" wheelset?
    I've been waiting for the Rekon 2.6's and placed an order for the NN cause I got tired of waiting for Maxxis to release them....
    When you get them, mount up, remove coil spring and check clearance. If needed, some folks have made plastic bottom out spacers when converting a Megatrail to a Shred Dogg. Email me if you have questions and I can help you figure it out. Maybe I can machine you a spacer....and my bottle of Del Bac is getting pretty low

  60. #460
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    Trail pistol vs evil following MB. Any one ridden both of these? Thoughts??


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  61. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mortsnarb View Post
    Trail pistol vs evil following MB. Any one ridden both of these? Thoughts??


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    Riding a Following in Sedona wednesday, grabbing a trail pistol from GG when I get back.
    Front Range, Colorado

  62. #462
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    That will be an interesting comparison and two bikes that I am currently considering!

  63. #463
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    Question for the folks riding GG's raw aluminum frames - what combination of sandpaper (grit and wet/dry) and/or steel wool have you successfully used to touch up small scratches in the frame? Any other products/processes to look at?

  64. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatNateDude View Post
    Question for the folks riding GG's raw aluminum frames - what combination of sandpaper (grit and wet/dry) and/or steel wool have you successfully used to touch up small scratches in the frame? Any other products/processes to look at?
    Nate, use Scotch Brite, that's what we use at the factory.

  65. #465
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    Cool - thanks!
    The green ones like would be for kitchen use, or something else?

  66. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatNateDude View Post
    Cool - thanks!
    The green ones like would be for kitchen use, or something else?
    The green ones for kitchen use work.

  67. #467
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    I appreciate it - thanks!

  68. #468
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamK View Post
    Hey Gerald, Under 66 į is what I meant.

    I am saying it is approx 65į HA as I have to question the accuracy of using an app to measure angle. The claims and charts estimate 64.8į should be the number. 65į is near enough in my mind and I am really liking it.

    I concur with mpbspt's findings.
    Thanks, given the geo lists it as 66.6 with a 130 which would be 66.2 with a 140 (in the crush i.e. low setting) how did you get yours to 65ish? Angleset?
    Michael

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  69. #469
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    Hi Gerald, Yes you are right, given the guide that slacks it out a little further.

    But then you can add one of these

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-proshox.jpg

    And ProShox says it is -1.5į. It also drops the BB down so I reckon I am safe at around an estimated 65į.

    It's not for everyone, I like it low, I ride a little tactile. I am used to riding this way without a problem and in fact enjoy exploiting the benefits.

    It certainly rallies hard in this spec.

  70. #470
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    The Trail Pistol as a Pistola is a rally master. One of the best trail bikes you can get imo

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-gg-tp-31.jpg

  71. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamK View Post
    The Trail Pistol as a Pistola is a rally master. One of the best trail bikes you can get imo

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Which Nox rims are you running on that bad boy?


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    They were supposed to be stealthy in black, but you spotted them. These are Farlow 29s.

    I run 2.3s on this set up, but did early on run a 2.4 e13 on the front. It's grip was really high but you could feel it hold back on the rolling side of things so I down scaled to a DHF on the front.

  73. #473
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamK View Post
    The Trail Pistol as a Pistola is a rally master. One of the best trail bikes you can get imo

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Excellent color scheme you got there
    2008 BMC Fourstroke 19-559 ISO (RIP in peace)
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  74. #474
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamK View Post
    They were supposed to be stealthy in black, but you spotted them. These are Farlow 29s.

    I run 2.3s on this set up, but did early on run a 2.4 e13 on the front. It's grip was really high but you could feel it hold back on the rolling side of things so I down scaled to a DHF on the front.
    I run the Nox Kitzuma on my Turner. 36mm internal. Game changer with a 2.6 NN. Addicted to the traction. Thought maybe you were running them too.


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  75. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Streetdoctor View Post
    Riding a Following in Sedona wednesday, grabbing a trail pistol from GG when I get back.
    Whatís the verdict?


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  76. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_joe View Post
    Excellent color scheme you got there
    I agree. Love the lemon-lime thing. Refreshing like a cold Sprite on a hot day. Ahhh.

  77. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamK View Post
    They were supposed to be stealthy in black, but you spotted them. These are Farlow 29s.

    I run 2.3s on this set up, but did early on run a 2.4 e13 on the front. It's grip was really high but you could feel it hold back on the rolling side of things so I down scaled to a DHF on the front.
    William, were you running the race or + e13?

  78. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamK View Post
    The Trail Pistol as a Pistola is a rally master. One of the best trail bikes you can get imo

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I wonder how your Pistola with 11.6 compares to the newer GG Smash??


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  79. #479
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    Hi Sim, from memory it was the race. It was the soft sticky one for the front.

    Agreed Rideon re the grip. I have 2.5s on my Mega Trail and you soon get addicted to the grip. When I built this TP up it was only going to be 130/120 so these rims were fine, now it does rip a bit harder I am making do with the rims.

    I also like the Praxis rims with a 32mm inner, I think that is a good all-rounder dimension. I find the wider you go the slower you go on the flats and ups.

  80. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by WilliamK View Post
    .

    Agreed Rideon re the grip. I have 2.5s on my Mega Trail and you soon get addicted to the grip. When I built this TP up it was only going to be 130/120 so these rims were fine, now it does rip a bit harder I am making do with the rims.

    I also like the Praxis rims with a 32mm inner, I think that is a good all-rounder dimension. I find the wider you go the slower you go on the flats and ups.
    I agree on super smooth hardpack, BUT as things get more rough and steep, I think the tables turn. The big upgrade in traction due to lower pressure and a bigger contact patch rewards you in spades. Frankly, I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't of tried it. Combine that big wide rim/tire combo with a good FS rig and you got mtb magic. Thank you to Jon at Nox for convincing me.



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  81. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rideon View Post
    I wonder how your Pistola with 11.6 compares to the newer GG Smash??


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    Yeah wondering this as well. Both bikes on my list for considering next year.

    I'm interested in how they descend, sure, but equally in how they climb and what the difference in weight is.

    If you're a strong descender, do you opt for the bike that is a slightly better climber?

  82. #482
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    Thanks!

  83. #483
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    First interactions with GG have been great super responsive folks! I was certain I'd be a small but I have asked about sizing on the TP and was surprised that at my pedal to seat rail height of 810mm that the seat clamp to head tube centre distance was only 560mm! Thats quite different from their geo chart, could I lean on one of you fine folks to measure your small TP as per the below photo (I'm hoping for the purple line measurement) with the seat rail at or about 810mm from the pedal in its lowest position?

    I'd greatly appreciate it!

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-screen-shot-2017-11-17-2.26.11-pm.jpg
    Michael

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  84. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by geraldooka View Post
    First interactions with GG have been great super responsive folks! I was certain I'd be a small but I have asked about sizing on the TP and was surprised that at my pedal to seat rail height of 810mm that the seat clamp to head tube centre distance was only 560mm! Thats quite different from their geo chart, could I lean on one of you fine folks to measure your small TP as per the below photo (I'm hoping for the purple line measurement) with the seat rail at or about 810mm from the pedal in its lowest position?

    I'd greatly appreciate it!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I measure almost exactly 22" or 559mm. I set the dropper to 810mm from pedal spindle to saddle rail.

  85. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayndar View Post
    I measure almost exactly 22" or 559mm. I set the dropper to 810mm from pedal spindle to saddle rail.
    Thanks so much Wayndar! Seems its confirmed then, I'm puzzled as to why GG suggests sizing down... At 560 its 40mm shorter than my current medium. Good to know though!
    Michael

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  86. #486
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    Yeah, the spec says 23" not 22". I'm 5'-8 1/2" and never felt cramped, but I also felt comfortable on the medium. I chose small for my twisty local trails, while medium would have been better for the open trails around Boise.

  87. #487
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    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol

    Quote Originally Posted by geraldooka View Post
    Thanks so much Wayndar! Seems its confirmed then, I'm puzzled as to why GG suggests sizing down... At 560 its 40mm shorter than my current medium. Good to know though!
    Probably because of customer feedback. I donít fit on a small, even though Iím 5í4Ē. Itís been common for people to size down.

    I ended up with an XS shred dogg and am very happy I didnít get a small.

  88. #488
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    OK, I haven't been properly following this thread, so not sure of your build, but curious what fork you have yours built with? If you've got a longer fork than the geo is stated for, then your ETT and Reach will be different. Not sure how you can have your saddle @ 810mm when the Stack height is listed at 673mm, again I suspect your running a longer fork. The most important measurement though, is Reach and that will shorten with a longer fork, not what you're looking for. Just drop a plumb line from the back of your saddle to intersect the chainstay on your other bike, then transfer that measurement to the TP, use either a straight or setback post to achieve the design position, then adjust stem length accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by geraldooka View Post
    First interactions with GG have been great super responsive folks! I was certain I'd be a small but I have asked about sizing on the TP and was surprised that at my pedal to seat rail height of 810mm that the seat clamp to head tube centre distance was only 560mm! Thats quite different from their geo chart, could I lean on one of you fine folks to measure your small TP as per the below photo (I'm hoping for the purple line measurement) with the seat rail at or about 810mm from the pedal in its lowest position?

    I'd greatly appreciate it!

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2017-11-17 at 2.26.11 PM.jpg 
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    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  89. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by geraldooka View Post
    Thanks so much Wayndar! Seems its confirmed then, I'm puzzled as to why GG suggests sizing down... At 560 its 40mm shorter than my current medium. Good to know though!
    The Reach is the same ~17.2"/17.3" on both the small TP and the med Endo. The cockpit distance in your diagram will be smaller on the TP because of the steeper STA and higher stack.

    The small TP = a med Endo.
    The med TP = a large Endo.

    You can fit on both with some cockpit adjustments. You just have to decide how big a bike you want to wrangle.
    Safe riding,

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  90. #490
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    Lynx I don't own this bike yet, what does my pedal spindle to seat rail have to do with stack? I get the stack and reach numbers those are valid but I don't care about them as much as what my seated cockpit would be as that's where I spend most of my time. The horizontal top tube length is the most important to me given my seat height. On a bike with trail figures like the TP I know the range of stems that I would care to run so with this measurement I can determine quite accurately what size will fit. Seems the medium in this case would be the only option given I would want to match my current cockpit and I would not want to run an 80mm+ stem with the TP's trail figures.

  91. #491
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    If you are trying to match your Endo fit you'll need a setback seatpost to match the slacker STA. That will give you more reach to the bars.

    If you want the steeper STA and the long reach to the bars size up on the TP. But you'll be riding a bike with a 2" longer WB. That could be nice on faster open trails but maybe not in tight slow speed tech.
    Safe riding,

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  92. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by geraldooka View Post
    Seems the medium in this case would be the only option given I would want to match my current cockpit and I would not want to run an 80mm+ stem with the TP's trail figures.
    Hi geraldooka, how tall are you and where do you ride primarily? Just curious. As mentioned, for my height, the medium was a blast when the trails were wide open. However, I primarily ride tighter, rockier, treed terrain and felt I'd give up a little high-speed stability for a tighter turning radius.

  93. #493
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    Ya I'm not sure whether I'd like the longer WB I've never ridden a bike that long, I'll never be able to demo a GG so I'll have to see about trying something locally... not sure what would be even remotely similar. I'd prefer not to run a set back as the seat angle is a key reason I'm keen on the GG.

    Wayndar I ride tight and twisty rocky root filled trails... rare that I get north of 30km and hour and if I do it's for short periods. Though with two rides there's some merit in having a "big" bike for trips and there are a couple of areas I get to ride in my area a few times a year where a bigger bike would be good.

    Anyways thanks folks back to your regular scheduled Trail Pistol stoke thanks for the input!
    Michael

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  94. #494
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    I recently picked up some new wheels and 29x2.6" tires for šnother project.

    Since I had them all set up and ready to go, I decided to throw them on the Trail Pistol and give them a go for today's ride.

    The Nics surprised me. I was thinking they would be a slower rolling tire, but they did well on my hardpack trails. I had thought I would end up replacing the Nics once the 2.6 Rekons were available, but I may leave them on for a while.

    I love having a frame with enough clearance for experiments like this!

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-img_8640.jpg

    Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistol-img_8641.jpg

  95. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOK View Post
    I love having a frame with enough clearance for experiments like this!
    Would you end up staying with the 27.5s or stay with 29er? Do you think you'd keep a wheelset around for swapping?I'm toying with adding an extra wheelset, but am wondering how often I'd actually swap around.

  96. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayndar View Post
    Would you end up staying with the 27.5s or stay with 29er? Do you think you'd keep a wheelset around for swapping?I'm toying with adding an extra wheelset, but am wondering how often I'd actually swap around.
    I donít have a 275 setup. I usually run 29 x 2.3 tires so this wasnít a huge change. Just playing around to see if I liked the wider tires.

    For my trails I have not seen a huge benefit with plus sized tires on a FS bike. They are fun, but overall I prefer a normal 29Ē setup.

  97. #497
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    Do you have to put the 3mm off set on 29er rear rims with 2.6? I had to trying to run 3.0's on my 27.5 set up. Still waiting for that grail tire.... Teravails are 1150 grams and NN addix are 850......hoping the Rekons are about 900

  98. #498
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    My understanding is that the 3mm offset is needed to properly center the wheel regardless of rim/tire size.

    Having said that the 2.6 fit easily in the Pistol even before I tweaked the offset.

  99. #499
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    This right there as Vik says and I say all the time STA really means nothing unless it is seriously out of whack to one extreme or the other, you just then pick which type of seatpost head you use, normal or offset to get the saddle to where it needs to be. FYI, the Reach on the SM TP is longer than most other brands Mediums by a good bit, almost as long as some LG - 440mm Reach for a SM is LONG as feck.

    Quote Originally Posted by vikb View Post
    If you are trying to match your Endo fit you'll need a setback seatpost to match the slacker STA. That will give you more reach to the bars.
    Quote Originally Posted by geraldooka View Post
    Lynx I don't own this bike yet, what does my pedal spindle to seat rail have to do with stack? I get the stack and reach numbers those are valid but I don't care about them as much as what my seated cockpit would be as that's where I spend most of my time. The horizontal top tube length is the most important to me given my seat height. On a bike with trail figures like the TP I know the range of stems that I would care to run so with this measurement I can determine quite accurately what size will fit. Seems the medium in this case would be the only option given I would want to match my current cockpit and I would not want to run an 80mm+ stem with the TP's trail figures.
    .
    AOK, I think the NN perform pretty decent as well, that is until you try the Rekons, then you'll realise you were wrong
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    Just placed my order for my pistola! I'm so stoked. I'm getting it with a 140 ribbon, and a db inline coil.

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