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  1. #1
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    Zaskar Re-Issue made in Taiwan????

    hi folks,

    a few of us over here in Germany received their 20th Anniversary Zaskar frames with a funny sticker on the box, it says "Made in Taiwan".
    I have contacted GT Germany, but they play, as usual, hide and seek, no reply... zero reaction
    .
    Here some pics:








    Must say, I don't like this at all. Anyone else having such stickers on the box? Just recalling that the frame has been aggressively marketed as the real thing, made in the US same as the original Zaskar back then....

    Any info is welcome
    Nick
    Last edited by oldman; 03-17-2008 at 03:03 PM.

  2. #2
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    Look at these pictures of a new Zaskar re-issue (from the German GT-Forum, too). The headtube isnīt well milled, the decals arenīt well fit and there are some scratches of a quick release skewer. I hope the other frames are in a better condition.
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  3. #3
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    I have seen pictures of the new reissue Zaskar which come with a certificate with build number and date,welding rod type and a signature of whom at SAPA in Portland,Oregon welded the frame.
    Your frame didn't came with something like that?

  4. #4
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    no, some frames have been delivered w/o certificates. GT Germany seems to ship the certificates separately....
    somehow it looks as if these don't come from SAPA.....

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldman
    no, some frames have been delivered w/o certificates. GT Germany seems to ship the certificates separately....
    somehow it looks as if these don't come from SAPA.....
    My Turner is made at SAPA and the build quality is by far superior to what can be seen in that pictures...

    Need to find that pictures I talked about,if I only remember where?

    BTW,is there a hind of the used material like Aluminium 6061 or 7005,7020 or something like that?

  6. #6
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    The marks on that frame make me think it was used for displays, rather than being assembled, such as being a preproduction show, or an early run example to go to shows or display at stores.

    NBD on the stickers, but it they apply them, I'd want them to at least be straight. On the Taiwan thing, who knows. Perhaps the De folks and the USA customers need to compare serial numbers to see what can reveal some differences.

    Doesn't Germany have strict importation and consumer rights laws? If GT De isn't getting back to you, customs or the consumer groups will certainly force them to. Mislabeling origin for customs is a serious crime in any country, as it can allow for variances in import duty.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaD
    Need to find that pictures I talked about,if I only remember where?
    The thread's a little further down the page (Here)

    Note the box in this thread even has Made in the USA printed on it.

    500 "real" reproductions, and 5000 fakes - just like the original Zaskar!

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    just fyi: over here in Germany the frame retails at € 1,300.- , that is $ 2,000 . You can get a branded titanium hardtail frame for $ 2000..... and it's made in the US

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT_guy
    The thread's a little further down the page (Here)

    Note the box in this thread even has Made in the USA printed on it.

    500 "real" reproductions, and 5000 fakes - just like the original Zaskar!
    Thats it,thanks!
    I somehow thought I have seen this at an other website

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    I would go right to the top and send the President of Cannondale Sports Group a email asking whats up. Send it to jfrehner(at)cannondalegroup.com . Remember that GT and Cannondale merged the other day. Let us know what he says.

  11. #11
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    I wish they had stuck with die-cut decals also. Just not like the originals.
    Needed: 26.8mm XTR seatpost, blue GT/Grundig Jersey.

  12. #12
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    the real thing

    on preivious posts made earlier you can see the technician at SAPA making the jig for the frame....The frames are finished, decaled, and packaged in Taiwan and by law whatever leaves that country for export into other countries must have the label of origin on it.....there is a label on the frame that states made in the USA......and I will say that my original Santa Ana Zaskar was not 100%perfect either.....

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtstar59
    on preivious posts made earlier you can see the technician at SAPA making the jig for the frame...
    Although you can expect a better quality when you buy a frame that costs 1300 Euros. This is really poor engeneering!!!!

  14. #14
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    if the ream on the headtube is off that is not poor engineering, that is poor machining by SAPA....I am sure anyone who is not satisfied can certainly get a frame that is to thier satisfaction....

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtstar59
    ..I am sure anyone who is not satisfied can certainly get a frame that is to thier satisfaction....
    Yes, a cheaper frame "made in Tawain" seems to be better produced as a frame from the USA today. In the past "made in USA" was a garantee for quality, but today???

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    Lobo, unfortunately you are correct, "USA made" is no guarantee of quality, as many Ellsworth (made by SAPA) owners can attest, .....I can say that I have inquired about the trustworthiness of any Re-Issue that has a headtube that has been machined off axis and according to GT Customer Service they pass all tests required to ship to US or EU customers so there is no safety issue with these frames...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtstar59
    if the ream on the headtube is off that is not poor engineering, that is poor machining by SAPA....I am sure anyone who is not satisfied can certainly get a frame that is to thier satisfaction....
    I doubt the possibility to get another frame, as this is a limited production...

    kr

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    Quote Originally Posted by B@rtman
    I doubt the possibility to get another frame, as this is a limited production...

    kr
    I prefer to get my cash back and will rather by some decent product. period

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    its a consumers perogative to get satisfaction for thier money....I would also say that its also not a deal breaker....I am sure if someone looked at every frame made by any mfg that they could likely find some defect to warrant a return....

    obviously this guy is pretty happy with his
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldman
    hi folks,

    a few of us over here in Germany received their 20th Anniversary Zaskar frames with a funny sticker on the box, it says "Made in Taiwan".
    I have contacted GT Germany, but they play, as usual, hide and seek, no reply... zero reaction
    .
    Here some pics:








    Must say, I don't like this at all. Anyone else having such stickers on the box? Just recalling that the frame has been aggressively marketed as the real thing, made in the US same as the original Zaskar back then....

    Any info is welcome
    Nick
    I thought the frame comes with three sets of decals.....to me that means none are on it out of the box and you choose and put on the color you want...isn't that correct. (Still wish they were die cuts, I'm having some reproduced for mine) The bike pictured in your post Lobo looks to have been on display or built up and I for one can attest that display and sample bikes and frames are not always perfect. Looks to me as though the machining is OK inside the head tube but it appears that the edge has been knocked against something a few times. Obviously it's had a wheel clamped into it too.
    Needed: 26.8mm XTR seatpost, blue GT/Grundig Jersey.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtstar59
    its a consumers perogative to get satisfaction for thier money....I would also say that its also not a deal breaker....I am sure if someone looked at every frame made by any mfg that they could likely find some defect to warrant a return....

    obviously this guy is pretty happy with his

    The question coming to my mind is, for how long? I mean, if the head tube was not proper milled, it might break - no one knows. The probability for a well milled head tube is far lower. And for this price you can expect a nearly perfect bike, even when hand made.

    This is not the quality GT got famous for.

    my 2 cents

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gm1230126
    I thought the frame comes with three sets of decals.....to me that means none are on it out of the box and you choose and put on the color you want...isn't that correct.
    Looks like it comes with decals on it in addition to the 3 sets in the box.




    I just noticed on the boxes that the large weighs less than the medium, but a net weight of 7Kgs = 15.4 lbs!

  23. #23
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    That's the weight for the wole box and frame dude...that could just be difference in the packaging.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldman
    hi folks,

    a few of us over here in Germany received their 20th Anniversary Zaskar frames with a funny sticker on the box, it says "Made in Taiwan".
    I have contacted GT Germany, but they play, as usual, hide and seek, no reply... zero reaction
    .
    Must say, I don't like this at all. Anyone else having such stickers on the box? Just recalling that the frame has been aggressively marketed as the real thing, made in the US same as the original Zaskar back then....

    Any info is welcome
    Nick
    Have a good friend that says they are ALL in fact made in the USA but said quote "No one in the USA could supply the finish that we received from Asia."
    Needed: 26.8mm XTR seatpost, blue GT/Grundig Jersey.

  25. #25
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    Can you Say STS

    Quote Originally Posted by B@rtman
    The question coming to my mind is, for how long? I mean, if the head tube was not proper milled, it might break - no one knows. The probability for a well milled head tube is far lower. And for this price you can expect a nearly perfect bike, even when hand made.

    This is not the quality GT got famous for.

    my 2 cents

    Your memory of the GT history is either short, or missing some key episodes ....I think anyone who bought a first generation STS in either Germany or Switzerland in the late 90's would tend to disagree with your statement GT was famous for quality. Also anyone who owned an LTS that seemed to produce that mind bending squeak would also disagree......Like all human endeavors, especially mfg, there will be issues. This is not a defense of improper construction or of unsafe product, which I do not think is in evidence here, but more so an admonition against the current state of mind that seems to prevail nowadays that everything just seemingly comes out perfect with little or no effort on the part of all those involved...I think that is a dangerous naivete that makes for a disconnect between humans and the products of their efforts and is a symptom of a chronic soul eating brand of cyncism

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtstar59
    Your memory of the GT history is either short, or missing some key episodes ....I think anyone who bought a first generation STS in either Germany or Switzerland in the late 90's would tend to disagree with your statement GT was famous for quality. Also anyone who owned an LTS that seemed to produce that mind bending squeak would also disagree......Like all human endeavors, especially mfg, there will be issues. This is not a defense of improper construction or of unsafe product, which I do not think is in evidence here, but more so an admonition against the current state of mind that seems to prevail nowadays that everything just seemingly comes out perfect with little or no effort on the part of all those involved...I think that is a dangerous naivete that makes for a disconnect between humans and the products of their efforts and is a symptom of a chronic soul eating brand of cyncism
    Amen to that.....now would somebody start a new thread on all the great things about these re-issue frames. Let's see some more pics of them built up and hear some ride reports.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by gm1230126
    "No one in the USA could supply the finish that we received from Asia."
    Do they have no quality-check in the states before they distribute this frame? Is that the new GT-policy? It seems that GT dissociates from their own work and from their flagship - the Zaskar. Here some pics oldmanīs frame. It seems to be also bad "finished in Asia".
    @gm1230126: The frames were ballburnished in Taiwan. So they are - from my point of view - not real 100% frames "made in USA", sorry.
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    Last edited by Lobo; 03-23-2008 at 01:50 AM.

  28. #28
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    SAPA makes some of the highest quality frames in the industry, but that doesn't mean that if a budget is imposed corners won't be cut.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo
    Do they have no quality-check in the states before they distribute this frame? Is that the new GT-policy? It seems that GT dissociates from their own work and from their flagship - the Zaskar. Here some pics oldmanīs frame. It seems to be also bad "finished in Asia".
    @gm1230126: The frames were ballburnished in Taiwan. So they are - from my point of view - not real 100% frames "made in USA", sorry.

    I have a hard time reading and beleiveing you Lobo when your original post was:
    (Quote)
    Do they have no quality-check in the states before they distribute this frame? Is that the new GT-policy? It seems that GT dissociates from their own work and from their flagship - the Zaskar.
    Here some pics oldmanīs frame. It seems to be also bad "finished in Asia". The frame weight is more than 1700 Gramms, but officially it should be 1100 Gramms - embarrassing for GT. (Quote)

    1100 grams????? Where was the official 1100 grams figure ever posted? What, now you also think they are suppose to be made of some special space age material too? 1100 grams is 2.42 lbs not sure that there's ever been a mountain bike frame made that's that light. That doesn't exactly look like the highest quality caliper that you are using in that picture either. Remember also that you have a square edged caliper and your putting it on a curved surface so you need to be very careful when measuring to make sure what you're comparing is fair.
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  30. #30
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    @gm1230126: I changed my statement!!! - So please read my changed post (from yesterday!). 1100 Gramms wasnīt officially posted by GT (only a Bikeshop did). But nevertheless quality of the frame is too bad for a frame that costs 1300 Euros!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo
    @gm1230126: I changed my statement!!! - So please read my changed post (from yesterday!). 1100 Gramms wasnīt officially posted by GT (only a Bikeshop did). But nevertheless quality of the frame is too bad for a frame that costs 1300 Euros!
    no, this information has also been given to visitors of the bike show in Germany by employees of GT Germany . As well, more than one bike shop communicated this weight.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldman
    no, this information has also been given to visitors of the bike show in Germany by employees of GT Germany . As well, more than one bike shop communicated this weight.

    What other company in the industry has ever produced an 1100g aluminum frame?.....none. I never would have even believed that if I had been told 1100g's. I'll echo what others have posted....... that SAPA produces to spec what is wanted by the company that they build for and they build for lots of bike companies. I'm hoping that the frame you got is one of very few that have the problems you feel yours has. When I receive mine I will check it also. Although I'm planning on storing mine in an attic for 20 yrs right next to an original 91 Zaskar frame. Don't think I'll be building it up. If I do someday it won't be with discs. I've already talked to a machinist about producing the correct diameter clamp on mounts to run canti's or v-brakes on the rear if I do decide to build it up.
    Needed: 26.8mm XTR seatpost, blue GT/Grundig Jersey.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gm1230126
    What other company in the industry has ever produced an 1100g aluminum frame?.....none. I never would have even believed that if I had been told 1100g's. I'll echo what others have posted....... that SAPA produces to spec what is wanted by the company that they build for and they build for lots of bike companies. I'm hoping that the frame you got is one of very few that have the problems you feel yours has. When I receive mine I will check it also. Although I'm planning on storing mine in an attic for 20 yrs right next to an original 91 Zaskar frame. Don't think I'll be building it up. If I do someday it won't be with discs. I've already talked to a machinist about producing the correct diameter clamp on mounts to run canti's or v-brakes on the rear if I do decide to build it up.

    well, I had a pretty strong aluminum frame made by Kinesis, it had 1150g at size M.... technically no problem.

    re y frame: it is certainly not alone, there is a lot of them out there with same defects.
    My plan was to build it and ride it. I found the idea of an up to date Zaskar with disc brakes and 100mm forks a cool thing.
    I own 2 Xizangs, 2 Psyclones, a Litespeed Niota Ti, a 1993 Scott Pro Racing, a Morati titanium roadie and a few others- all of them get adequate treatment.
    If any of my bikes doesn't make a minimum annual mileage, it ends up on ebay...

    Just to avoid misunderstandings: I owned at least 8 GTs, none of them less than an upscale steel model, have spent lots on my GTs.
    So, this is not a GT bashing thread - am simply upset about the poor quality.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldman
    So, this is not a GT bashing thread - am simply upset about the poor quality.
    Sometimes things are not perfect. Shame about the quality- can't you return it and replace it for a better job?

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtstar59
    Your memory of the GT history is either short, or missing some key episodes ....I think anyone who bought a first generation STS in either Germany or Switzerland in the late 90's would tend to disagree with your statement GT was famous for quality. Also anyone who owned an LTS that seemed to produce that mind bending squeak would also disagree......Like all human endeavors, especially mfg, there will be issues. This is not a defense of improper construction or of unsafe product, which I do not think is in evidence here, but more so an admonition against the current state of mind that seems to prevail nowadays that everything just seemingly comes out perfect with little or no effort on the part of all those involved...I think that is a dangerous naivete that makes for a disconnect between humans and the products of their efforts and is a symptom of a chronic soul eating brand of cyncism

    Sorry, but if I pay € 1.300,- (nearly $ 2.000,-) for an alloy frame, the frame has to be perfect. I don't pay for a Bentley to get Volkswagen finish.

    And GT to my knowledge got famous for its unbreakable Zaskars. And a mechanic who worked for a "pro team" said, that it is only a question of time until this poor milled head tube will break...

    kr

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilostmypassword
    Sometimes things are not perfect. Shame about the quality- can't you return it and replace it for a better job?
    am currently handling the issue with my bike dealer, let#s see

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    The Zaskars were very tough. My brother still has a '95 Zaskar LE frame. Still in great condition, he only stopped riding it when he got a Spark.

    I didn't have as much luck with my GT's. I had a RTS that broke on the downtube. They replaced it with an LTS that ended up breaking at the shock mount. They replaced that one too and I eventually sold it to someone in Germany. They were great bikes, but weren't exactly known for "legendary" quality. The warranty policy was great, but as bikes they weren't too special.

    Quote Originally Posted by B@rtman
    Sorry, but if I pay € 1.300,- (nearly $ 2.000,-) for an alloy frame, the frame has to be perfect. I don't pay for a Bentley to get Volkswagen finish.

    And GT to my knowledge got famous for its unbreakable Zaskars. And a mechanic who worked for a "pro team" said, that it is only a question of time until this poor milled head tube will break...

    kr

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