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  1. #1
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    defective frames

    UPDATE 3/1/12- GT has done more than I could ask to make this right!

    Hello all,

    i sure hate to be on an enthusiast website with anything negative to say about our interest but i'm looking for some advice. Long story short...kinda

    Bought a new gt force 3.0 from a shop in july 2008. Essentially bought it for the frame so i could build it up as time and money allowed. I love the bike, (when it's not cracked) but i barely got a year out of the frame before it cracked near the chainstay/bb weld. Gt sent me a replacement, and all was good.

    I began working at a lbs in early 2009 and loved my force so much, I decided to order another gt force (2010 1.0 this time for an xc race bike) directly from gt at a very nice price. I did this around march 2010. Due to injuries, i have ridden this bike VERY little.

    Fast forward to December 2011, and while cleaning my bikes, i discover a very similar crack on my replacement frame. I figure it's no huge deal as gt should cover it but damn, two cracks in a row in the same spot? Weird, but acceptable... i guess.

    Later that night, I decide to check my 2010 1.0. Surely there is no way it's has cracked in such a short time. Big ole' CRACK. Same spot.

    After taking them to the shop to have the warranty procedure submitted, gt gets back to me telling me the 2008 is out of warranty (3 yrs) and they need the receipt for the 1.0. I told them i ep'd the 1.0 through them but i could surely get a bank statement to prove the transaction.

    While at the shop, the assistant manager takes me to the stockroom and shows me two more Gt force frames with cracks in the exact same spot! Three seperate riders with Gt force bikes and they are all cracking in the same place. He said they are sending the frames to gt. I had him take pictures of these bikes and send them to me.

    I no longer work at the shop, but i personally know the other two riders with broken bikes-i sold one guy his and would have sold the other his but we couldn't get his size quick enough. Both great guys and i have ridden with them both.

    So, what should i do here? It looks like gt will warranty the 2010 (i hope) but that is 3 frames in a row! Defective manufacturing if i have ever seen it! I took the time to try and explain to gt how much i love my bike and how important cycling is to me, but they seem to not want to make any exceptions here. I told them that i would expect them to at least extend the 3yr warranty to the new frame from the date of replacement but nope, sorry. I asked if they could send carbon triangles at least instead of aluminum and got no response. The rep said she could offer me a "loyalty discount" if the size is available. I had to laugh.... riding a bike that continually breaks shows some loyalty i guess... Being currently unemployed, any cost is going to be tough.

    What if the frame catastophicaly fails and it's my forth one?

    All i want is a gt force that will not break in that area in an unacceptable amount of time. I don't think that is too much to ask, is it? Been riding/racing gt's for 30 years now.... sure feel like i'm being shat on.

    Any ideas or suggestions are appreciated. If anybody knows someone at GT who may be able to help, please let me know.
    Last edited by koldsimer1; 03-03-2012 at 08:25 PM. Reason: update title, info

  2. #2
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    Surely if you have been racing/riding for 30 years you are aware that unfortunately bike frames fail. Yes, some designs are weaker then others .

    Personally if I have had 3 frames (same frame design?) fail in the same place I would really not be trusting or riding said model anymore.

    Course of action - get what you can warrantied, if they provide you with the same frame, same design, sell them when they are brand new, and get something else.

    My $.02 Canadian

  3. #3
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    couple of pics...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails defective frames-crack-l.jpg  

    defective frames-crack-xl.jpg  

    defective frames-both-gt-force-bikes.jpg  


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    Surely if you have been racing/riding for 30 years you are aware that unfortunately bike frames fail. Yes, some designs are weaker then others .

    Personally if I have had 3 frames (same frame design?) fail in the same place I would really not be trusting or riding said model anymore.

    Course of action - get what you can warrantied, if they provide you with the same frame, same design, sell them when they are brand new, and get something else.

    My $.02 Canadian
    Sound advice.
    .....

  5. #5
    All Lefty's, all the time Moderator
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    Simple, don't buy another GT....

    That many failures in the same frame? At least buy a different model for crying out loud!

    I sell Jamis (amongst others), Jamis had a similar issue with disc side chain stays cracking. They kept replacing, I kept installing. Eventually, the design was changed, and the problem went away.
    This is a Pugs not some carbon wannabee pretzel wagon!!

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Simple, don't buy another GT....

    That many failures in the same frame? At least buy a different model for crying out loud!

    I sell Jamis (amongst others), Jamis had a similar issue with disc side chain stays cracking. They kept replacing, I kept installing. Eventually, the design was changed, and the problem went away.
    If Gt doesn't make this right, I will never buy a product from them again or recomend them. Shame, because i have loved the brand for years and love my force and the way it rides.

    A design change and recognition of a flawed design would be a great start. Taking care of customers who have shelled out thousands of dollars on a product that is defective would be a great way to follow through.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith View Post
    Simple, don't buy another GT....

    That many failures in the same frame? At least buy a different model for crying out loud!

    I sell Jamis (amongst others), Jamis had a similar issue with disc side chain stays cracking. They kept replacing, I kept installing. Eventually, the design was changed, and the problem went away.
    Btw, i had a dakar i loved. But it had the disc crack as well.

  8. #8
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    Not for nothing, but I broke two rear triangles in the exact same
    spot on my old Ibex Asta frame in the same spot by the rear brake
    weld on the chain stay. I would have probably broken a third if I hadn't decided
    it would be better to buy a different bike. Take the warranty and move in
    another direction is sound advice here.
    Get out and ride even when you don't want to because ten minutes into the ride you'll be glad you did.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldsimer1 View Post
    If Gt doesn't make this right, I will never buy a product from them again or recomend them. Shame, because i have loved the brand for years and love my force and the way it rides.

    A design change and recognition of a flawed design would be a great start. Taking care of customers who have shelled out thousands of dollars on a product that is defective would be a great way to follow through.
    GT should make this right.

    Regardless of whether GT makes it right, I would never buy from them again. After three consecutive frames, how much confidence would you have in their product as you are going down that rock garden on the 15th mile of your 8th race of the season?

    Me, not much!

    There are plenty of other companies offering equivelent, and often, better products.

    If the engine went out on three consecutive new cars, why would you trust a fourth?

    Just my .02
    BoiseBoy

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ooctrl View Post
    Not for nothing, but I broke two rear triangles in the exact same
    spot on my old Ibex Asta frame in the same spot by the rear brake
    weld on the chain stay. I would have probably broken a third if I hadn't decided
    it would be better to buy a different bike. Take the warranty and move in
    another direction is sound advice here.
    I hear everyone telling me to not buy another and believe me, i won't. Please understand, even though i bought the 2010 1.0 after breaking the 2008 3.0 model, i did so because i figured it was a one time thing on the 3.0. Not the first bike frame i have broken, unfortunately. Now that i have broken its replacement and the one i ep'd in the exact same spot, and seen two others currently at the shop with the same problem, i know it's a manufacturing flaw. I would never BUY another gt force.


    I'm suprised nobody has agreed that it seems to be an inferior design in that specific area... am i crazy to think that?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoiseBoy View Post
    GT should make this right.

    Regardless of whether GT makes it right, I would never buy from them again. After three consecutive frames, how much confidence would you have in their product as you are going down that rock garden on the 15th mile of your 8th race of the season?

    Me, not much!

    There are plenty of other companies offering equivelent, and often, better products.

    If the engine went out on three consecutive new cars, why would you trust a fourth?

    Just my .02
    I hear ya, good points. Such a shame because i have had some really good times and incredible rides on that bike. It pedals great and is near perfect for me and the terrain around here, but it just keeps on cracking.

    Like I told Gt, i have purchased at least 6 different gt's from bike shops in the past ten years. Hell, i just refurbished an old cro-mo talera for a 10 year old who needed a bike to get to and from school because his mom works ft. It feels really bad to be let down like this when you have been such an advocate for the brand in so many ways and believed in them.

  12. #12
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    I left GT bikes a long time ago.......when they told me that the loose cage mount on my 4 month old STS-1500 was caused by light battery.......to just wrap it with duct tape.....they refused to warranty it stating they didn't design the cages mounts to handle light batteries (ummm, it weight the same as a full bottle of water.
    I crashed hard enough on my Tallboy to break my leg,
    The carbon is way more durable than most people.

  13. #13
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    Large manufacturer- defective frames

    No one intentionally builds a defective frame. They do a lot of testing before they release the new models. Before you buy again, do a net search for known issues from the manufacturer you are considering. As for your current issue, just keep politely asking GT for a replacement or a credit towards a different model. Good luck!

  14. #14
    Probably drunk right now
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    Most of us have been there...

    Quote Originally Posted by koldsimer1 View Post
    I hear everyone telling me to not buy another and believe me, i won't. Please understand, even though i bought the 2010 1.0 after breaking the 2008 3.0 model, i did so because i figured it was a one time thing on the 3.0. Not the first bike frame i have broken, unfortunately. Now that i have broken its replacement and the one i ep'd in the exact same spot, and seen two others currently at the shop with the same problem, i know it's a manufacturing flaw. I would never BUY another gt force.


    I'm suprised nobody has agreed that it seems to be an inferior design in that specific area... am i crazy to think that?

    Most of us who have ridden for any length of time have broken frames or been involved in some sort of manufacturers defect. It happens. What most of us have chosen to do is find another bike/fork/drive train/brake to ride that works better for us.

    I have a couple bike OEM products that I won't buy any more. Or to put it a more positive way, I've found a personal build that I absolutely trust and I've built up my last 4 bikes with the same set up. I haven't purchased a new bike in 5 years because I also found two frames that absolutely work for me.

    I've done exactly what 006_007 suggested: Take the newly warranted frame, sell it NIB (you'll make money based on the EP pricing) and buy another bike. So I second his advice.
    JPark - 3.5- don't listen to dremer

  15. #15
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    Ditch the GT. Or next time it's shame on you (I say that in semi-jest).

  16. #16
    I just let one RIP
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikej View Post
    I left GT bikes a long time ago.......when they told me that the loose cage mount on my 4 month old STS-1500 was caused by light battery.......to just wrap it with duct tape.....they refused to warranty it stating they didn't design the cages mounts to handle light batteries (ummm, it weight the same as a full bottle of water.
    Usually, the cage mounts can be tightened back down with a simple tool most shops should have. There was a time we were often tightening the cage mounts down on C'dales because they were loose straight from the factory.

    Anyway, to the OP's questions. Don't think you'll get anywhere from small claims or other legal recourse concerning the older bike. If they're warranty period was 3 years, and it's out of the warranty period, you'll have no real leg to stand on to push for anything. Often, replacement items stay in the same warranty period and don't extend the warranty. Not good news, but most likely the case. BUT it doesn't hurt to ask again, and maybe again, and maybe even again, because it does seem like an issue they should take care of for you, and good companies will. Manitou did a bunch of warranty work on my fork that was out of the warranty period - and I didn't even ask for it!
    A ride a day keeps the therapist away.

  17. #17
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    Reading your original post, if I'm doing the math correctly, it's actually 5 frames with the exact same crack in the exact same place. Yeah, buying a third is a little iffy in the judgement department on your part, but I would think if 5 of the exact same model of frame had the same defect GT would be all over it. That they aren't and that this is the first it seems any of us are hearing about it, I'm a little skeptical, but so what?

    I hope you don't get screwed in the wallet, and I'd think about shopping a new manufacturer. Sucks you won't get the shop discount.
    I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions.
    ― Robert Anton Wilson

  18. #18
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    Like the others have said, not much luck going after any legal action. Get what you can warrantied and sell the "new" replacements. Wash your hands of them. I wholeheartedly agree, the situation sucks. I don't want to get into Armchair Vector Analysis or anything but, I know exactly the problem you are speaking of. Seems like an uneven torque load on that side of the chainstay yoke. But again, not my field of expertise.

    BTW, is this Kirven? I think I recognize your handle from somewhere. Maybe DORBA? It's Steve, that used to work at the other shop downtown.

    I can dig thru some of my contacts - I may have a couple of rep's info. Never hurts to ask for some inside help? I'll see what I can find.

    Cheers

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS-Dad View Post
    Like the others have said, not much luck going after any legal action. Get what you can warrantied and sell the "new" replacements. Wash your hands of them. I wholeheartedly agree, the situation sucks. I don't want to get into Armchair Vector Analysis or anything but, I know exactly the problem you are speaking of. Seems like an uneven torque load on that side of the chainstay yoke. But again, not my field of expertise.

    BTW, is this Kirven? I think I recognize your handle from somewhere. Maybe DORBA? It's Steve, that used to work at the other shop downtown.

    I can dig thru some of my contacts - I may have a couple of rep's info. Never hurts to ask for some inside help? I'll see what I can find.

    Cheers

    Steve! How ya been man? Hope all is well for ya on the east coast. Say hello to Gene for me if you get the chance...

    I would really appreciate you seeing if you have anybody at gt that could help me out.

    I know you left the area in 2009, right after the force/sanction platform came out, but do you remember seeing any come through your shop?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinnyspinspin View Post
    Reading your original post, if I'm doing the math correctly, it's actually 5 frames with the exact same crack in the exact same place. Yeah, buying a third is a little iffy in the judgement department on your part, but I would think if 5 of the exact same model of frame had the same defect GT would be all over it. That they aren't and that this is the first it seems any of us are hearing about it, I'm a little skeptical, but so what?

    I hope you don't get screwed in the wallet, and I'd think about shopping a new manufacturer. Sucks you won't get the shop discount.
    I only bought two... the third is a replacement for the 2008. I definately would have thought GT would try and address this after seeing so many breaking in the same spot for so many years now. The 2012 looks exactly the same at the bb/chainstay junction. 5 straight years of them breaking.

    Also, a google search of "cracked gt force" pulls up several other threads and images of this exact nature. I promise it's not a conspiracy on my part.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldsimer1 View Post
    I only bought two... the third is a replacement for the 2008. I definately would have thought GT would try and address this after seeing so many breaking in the same spot for so many years now. The 2012 looks exactly the same at the bb/chainstay junction. 5 straight years of them breaking.

    Also, a google search of "cracked gt force" pulls up several other threads and images of this exact nature. I promise it's not a conspiracy on my part.
    Links to other threads? I dont see any

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldsimer1 View Post
    Steve! How ya been man? Hope all is well for ya on the east coast. Say hello to Gene for me if you get the chance...

    I would really appreciate you seeing if you have anybody at gt that could help me out.

    I know you left the area in 2009, right after the force/sanction platform came out, but do you remember seeing any come through your shop?
    Thought that may be you. I'm good. Loving it here, great weather, great riding. I'll shoot you a Msg. As for the Red Walrus, strangely, no sightings. I'll keep an eye out!

    A guy I know, who oddly enough, was wrenching @ an REI here showed me a couple of the same frames in question. He left last fall but, let me see what I can find.

    Later

  23. #23
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    When are manufacturers going to learn that there is an army off people buying bikes that do a severe research before buying a bike. If I had been looking to buy a bike there would be a few models and makes in the pot then it would be research, googling etc to find out all the negs and pros. GT would have just taken itself of my list. It would not sit well with me knowing I was selling a bike that had a good chance of frame failure to a unsuspecting third party. But you have few options, other than finding a similar bike that suits you.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricky916 View Post
    Links to other threads? I dont see any
    MTBiker - Cracked Frame

    ROTORBURN Forums

    Here's a couple. Same crack.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by walkertalker View Post
    When are manufacturers going to learn that there is an army off people buying bikes that do a severe research before buying a bike. If I had been looking to buy a bike there would be a few models and makes in the pot then it would be research, googling etc to find out all the negs and pros. GT would have just taken itself of my list. It would not sit well with me knowing I was selling a bike that had a good chance of frame failure to a unsuspecting third party. But you have few options, other than finding a similar bike that suits you.
    Good points. My initial thoughts were that gt would just replace the frame in good faith to prevent bad publicity...

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