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  1. #1
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    Gravel Bikes Are Funny

    I didn't think so until I read this

    Gravel bikes: roadie revenge on mountain bike progress? - BikeRadar USA

    "Gravel bikes: roadie revenge on mountain bike progress?
    The hot new thing... or a last-gasp attempt to turn back the clock? asks Steve Williams

    Steven WilliamsMarch 09, 2018 4:00pm GMT
    The GT Grade Carbon Ultegra
    The GT Grade Carbon Ultegra
    (Robert Smith / Immediate Media)

    There's a literary genre known as alternative history, which imagines life today if key events had taken a different turn. Think Phillip K. Dick's The Man in the High Castle, Robert Harris's Fatherland or Len Deighton's SS-GB, all set in a world where the Nazis won World War Two.

    Things you don't think you need… but you actually do
    The Trek Domane Gravel is not a gravel bike
    Gravel bikes (also known as adventure bikes, also known as all-roaders, also known as basically road bikes, also known as bikes) are the cycling equivalent of alternate history. They're machines set in a world where the last 25 years of off-road progress was crushed before it could even begin, probably by Nazis.

    Look, I'm not saying gravel bikes are literally being built by Hitler (I am, it’s Godwin’s Law!), but the tubing is 98 percent Hitler and any fool can see the obsession with super-compact ‘Goering’. Sure, they pronounce it 'gearing', but that's just political correctness.

    So let’s go back to where history diverges into our new gravel bike future.

    It’s the early 2000s. For many years, mountain bike design has closely mirrored road bikes, despite the two disciplines having diametrically opposed demands. Obviously, the right geometry for smoothly undulating, solidly surfaced roads is also right for rough, loose, slippery and steep dirt.

    The people asking questions are traitors. Why would a frame designed to stay agile at 40mph with the wheels in line be anything but jack-knife twitchy at 15mph with the tyres sliding... and on smaller rims? Shhh. Get some skills, mate.

    Add drop bars to this 2013 hardtail and you’ve got a cutting-edge 2018 gravel bike
    Add drop bars to this 2013 hardtail and you’ve got a cutting-edge 2018 gravel bike
    Truth is, nobody thought that short, tall, steep frames were best off-road, even then. It was just belief. Real riders pumped their narrow tyres hard for 'fast rolling' (and low grip and high vibration and poor control) and insisted they were right, often while mid-somersault over their 'aero' super-narrow bars that rarely went fast enough for aero to count. There was no science to it. There was only the will for it to be true.

    What now if you want a bike like in the 'good old days' when just staying on at 10mph was the challenge?
    And then mountain bikes diverged. They found their own way on geometry — getting longer, lower and slacker — while even XC bikes were dragged along with roomier front triangles, wider bars and typically bigger 29in wheels. They got more stable, capable and rideable than ever. They got faster.

    But they no longer felt like road bikes. Call that progress?

    What the rise of gravel bikes demonstrates is sheer strength of will; the will for ‘old-school XC’ to remain the one true path. Those whose only criteria for a mountain bike was that it feel exactly like their road bike were lost. Yet the roadies will have their revenge — they've dragged the sketchy XC nightmare from the skip of history and upcycled it as the gravel bike.

    It’s an alternative future we need. Otherwise, what now for the Ordinary Jo(sephine) who values basic common sense over demonstrable fact? What now for the common (wo)man who values riding skill over capable machinery, because the latter is for talentless cheats?

    My god, what now if you want a bike like in the 'good old days' when just staying on at 10mph was the challenge? You spool back to where it all went wrong. Then you branch into an alternate history, where mountain bikes never discovered, use-appropriate design, and you invent the gravel bike.

    Welcome to the (alternate) future of off-road
    Welcome to the (alternate) future of off-road
    A gravel bike is a road bike, but heavier and with slower tyres. It's narrow and steep and tall, and you can't shift your weight much, so it teaches you ancient, authentic skills such as 'desperately trying not to crash' and 'how to still crash' and 'acting superior even now you've crashed’. It's just like mountain biking used to be, before it was ruined by marketing BS! And quantifiable progress! And by, you know, physics!

    Okay, your new gravel/adventure/gravelrash-adventure bike will probably have disc brakes, but maybe you can convert it to cantilever for that 'real' feel of loudly destroying your narrow rims while not slowing down. But watch out! It might have 650b wheels, which are so new-fangled you'll positively vomit.

    Hilariously, 650b/27.5in wheels could become the next big thing for gravel bikes, because designers have discovered they allow a greater air volume for the same 700c overall diameter. I say 'hilariously' because watching gravel bikes slowly rediscover basic concepts such as fat tyres and suspension, as if the last 25+ years of mountain bike evolution simply didn't happen, is hilarious. Maybe in another 100 years they’ll cautiously try flat bars.

    None of this is to say you shouldn't get a gravel bike. By all means, buy one and ride on some gravel. Take a piece of gravel home as a souvenir. Have it mounted. It's the kind of surface we could previously only dream of traversing, here in our alternate history where mountain bikes never happened. Your gravel bike will be slightly more comfy than a road bike, probably, and a little bit more versatile, though not as fast on tarmac (so you'll still need a proper road bike).

    Most importantly, though, it'll feel just like your road bike, so you won't have to learn anything new. Just staying on board is the challenge… and any fool will tell you that's the absolute definition of a proper mountain bike."
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  2. #2
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    Reputation: life behind bars's Avatar
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    Won't turn off my adblock to view the article. How can getting out for a bike ride be bad?
    Quote Originally Posted by me View Post
    Of all the paths you take in life, make sure that most of them are dirt.
    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Gravel bike hate is imagined.
    Sweet.

  3. #3
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    Still funny. Must resist the urge to buy a gravel bike.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Still funny. Must resist the urge to buy a gravel bike.
    It's definitely pretty funny. Captures a good bit of the unsaid aspects of gravel bikes.

  5. #5
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    Funny indeed, I had a similar discussion with the local bike shop guy when Specialized reinvented the suspension stem as the latest new tech for their gravel bike.

    I kinda see the appeal, I've often thought it'd be good to have one for winter training rides on forestry roads when the trails are too wet and slippery. But when I think about what the pros and cons of a dedicated gravel bike vs a steel hardtail with a half decent fork and tyres, I don't see the point in owning one [for me].

  6. #6
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    I can do the gravel riding on my hardtail AND mountain bike. Might be the next thing in gravel bikes. They do look cool though.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  7. #7
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    I just did a gravel/ road ride.

    On my spare wheel set for the bmc four-stroke I ride. I am buying into the n+0 methodology and loving it.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

  8. #8
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    Same problem here. I want to like them. But then I ride one. Even though it is new, and fresh, and not mine ... I still don't get it. I want to ride gravel when I would be wrecking the local trails. But the skinny tires sink forever in the soft, wet, muddy, gravel road.Yea, it says "gravel", not "muddy gravel".

    I guess I'm just not as cool as the bearded guy in the Jamis promo video. Never was.

    So what is a "Cyclo-cross" bike. The answer is "not the latest trend".

    Compared to most things on Bike Radar, that was full of truth, sarcasm, and wit. I enjoyed the article more than I have enjoyed my last few gravel bike rides.

  9. #9
    Wanna ride bikes?
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    What a hater. I don't see the problem?

    Yes, old school XC hardtail geo isn't far from "gravel bike" geo, which is only slightly different than cyclocross geo, which is only slightly different than road bike geo. What's your point? Tire clearance may be the biggest difference, but the author has completely omitted MonsterCross bikes and Drop Bar 29ers.

    I just got back from NAHBS, there were a lot of drop bar bikes with big knobby tires. Some had 27.5x2.4" tires, some had 40mm travel suspension forks, some were even full suspension (or soft tail), and most had dropper posts. I dare you to explain to me why any of those are the wrong bike or shouldn't exist.

    It's a pretty cool segment of the cycling market IMO. I am a mountain biker first and foremost. I had a decent collection of MTBs until a couple years ago when I built my first cross bike. I rode it all the time when I couldn't ride trails due to weather. Lame winter and freeze/thaw is a pain, and I wanted to keep riding but hate riding on the road. The cross bike was super versatile, capable of some road or trail, fun, nimble, etc. My Urban Assault rides are super fun, adventurous, and more than half singletrack. Cross bike works pretty well.

    I've since built up another cross bike which has extremely similar geo to other manufacturers gravel bikes, touring bikes, and cross bikes. The name or sub category is less important than the fun, function, and versatility of these kinds of bikes. Yes, you can do all similar things on a hardtail MTB with a simple tire swap, but I enjoy riding my cross bike off road, I enjoy being under-biked.

    My latest MonsterCross bike is my "do whatever" bike. Charity ride, bike packing, gravel race, grocery getter, all day rider, you name it. Ride out your front door to your next adventure bike. Who doesn't want that?

    It's kind of funny, other than disc brakes the Surly Cross Check was pretty much exactly what I was after all along, I just never noticed. Surly got it right so many years ago.
    Rigid SS 29er
    Fat Lefty
    SS MonsterCross
    SS cyclocross
    all steel

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  10. #10
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    Personally I would hate to ride gravel and forrest roads on my MTB. Also my gravel bike is my travel bike with S&S couplers, my grocery bike, and bar hopper...the MTB is more fun on single track, but sometimes I will ride the gravel bike to the trail and do a lap. Did a 62 mile gravel ride last week with some single track and rock gardens. 3200ft of climbing. Longest MTB ride I've done is 54miles. Gravel bike is way more comfortable.

  11. #11
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    My gravel bike is a cx bike. I had a gravel bike and was too roadie. I like the more mtb like cx geo.

    Its ok, my province has a ton of gravel roads. There is next to no one on them so they are substantially safer than the highway.

    Its fun to get out and “explore” in a group and chat.

    Racing sucks, nothing like getting dropped and riding solo in the wind on gravel. Few races here have went to a ride and a bunch of strava segments mixed in. You race the segments and then ride in a group. Kind of cool...

    Its my if its too muddy to trail ride bike basically.
    Fatbike, XC bike, Gravel Bike....

  12. #12
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    Yup, still hilarious
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  13. #13
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    I ride my 20 year old steel road bike on gravel.
    I ride my 9 year old 29er xc race bike on gravel.
    I ride my 120 full sus 29er on gravel.
    I ride my 27.5 plus steel am hardtail on gravel.
    I ride my fatbike on gravel.
    I commute 24/7/365 on pavement or singletrack or gravel, depending on mood and weather.
    When I raced cx, I rode my cx bike on gravel.
    When I raced tri, I rode my tri-bike on gravel, but in hindsight, that wasn't the best idea I ever had...
    I haven't driven to work in a car since last May.

    What's funny to me is that the bike industry is slowly catching on to ideas that are 100+ years old:
    Riding bikes is fun.
    Bikes are more capable than people think.
    Most riders do not race, so a bike designed for racing is silly.
    Most of the world is NOT paved.

    Used to be, they weren't called "gravel bikes." They were just called "bikes."
    But yes, I do think this trend is kind of funny.
    Is this where I write something witty?

  14. #14
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    I had a nice hardtail I mostly rode on gravel. But for sitting and pedaling for hours I was never very comfortable. Last spring I bought a Salsa Fargo, which is basically a trekking gravel bike with 3" tires, in my case, super low profile Schwalbes. Biggest difference to me? Drop bars with geo that keeps them fairly high. Once I got the cockpit tweaked out, I'm in heaven. This is what sitting and pedaling was meant to be. The big tires smooth out gravel chudder better than any suspension could. This spring I'm going to get a skinnier wheelset for 45mm tires to use on smooth railtrails and even (gasp) blacktop.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  15. #15
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    I built a SS gravel bike. I did it because I had the parts laying around. Its was an old GT Transeo commuter bike. it was more about a build than the purpose of having it. plus hey I have another bike now...

    there are canals that cross all over Phoenix and most are dirt like a forest road. some people do them on beach cruisers. And since its a canal and there are no hills it was a great idea.
    A pristine bike free of dirt, scratches, and wear marks makes me sort of sad.

  16. #16
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    We don't have gravel trails here so I don't even know what you guys are talking about.

  17. #17
    Rocks belong
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    I built a bad ass, steel, gravel bike. Rode it twice.

    So glad it's gone. (And that jangle is in my pocket).
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  18. #18
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    Wow! You are talking about my Jamis Renegade! It's my favorite bike for paved road touring, although I ditched the drop handlebars for trekking handlebars, and changed the gearing to mtb ratios. Actually, the only original parts are the frame, brakes and front wheel, but it was great touring in Alaska on the gravel Denali Hiway.

  19. #19
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    meh, clickbait article on a subject that has already been beaten to death. BSNYC already lampooned it thoroughly enough that there's not much else to be said.

    I've owned a few CX and touring bikes over the years and I have ridden them and my mountain bike (hardtail, usually rigid) on some gravel races and long urban mixed-terrain rides. something about the skinnier tires and drop bars makes is a better experience to ride anything but the gnarly, rocky trails. after a rain when the trails are muddy and the rocks are murderously slick, miles of pavement and urban crushed granite trails is a ton of fun -- way more fun to me than flopping around on my mountain bike.

    on that note, I have done two gravel races on a SSCX bike this year, and have one more planned for next week. it's already getting too hot for that kind of stuff to be fun for much longer!
    Thorn in your Sidewall
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  20. #20
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    All early vintage and historical bikes were gravel grinders. Whats new about that?
    New century, same old stuff - big deal.

    Eric
    If I don't make an attempt, how will I know if it will work?

  21. #21
    WillWorkForTrail
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    It *IS* funny.

    A gravel bike is what it took to get me to buy a "road" bike. I'm glad I did. My GT Grade is basically what I've thought a road bike should be all the time. Doesn't require a racer position on the bike, I can run wide enough tires (tubeless!) to explore pretty much anything I don't "need" my mountain bike for....look. It's like someone finally looked at a road bike (XC race bike) and said, what if I just want to ride and not race? Can't I just have a road (trail) bike? Nailed it.

  22. #22
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    I was fondly eyeballing a new Trek Checkpoint at the LBS yesterday.
    Do the math.

  23. #23
    bikes don't have motors
    Reputation: life behind bars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Malcolm View Post
    All early vintage and historical bikes were gravel grinders. Whats new about that?
    New century, same old stuff - big deal.

    Eric



    This. We're just going back to our roadie roots which is gravel.
    Quote Originally Posted by me View Post
    Of all the paths you take in life, make sure that most of them are dirt.
    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Gravel bike hate is imagined.
    Sweet.

  24. #24
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    Yes, the thought of gravel bikes is funny....peeps have been riding gravel hundreds of yrs....and its always been fun....
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Gravel Bikes Are Funny-dscn3509.jpg  


  25. #25
    One ring to mash them all
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    ^Are those gravel shorts?
    ¯\(°_o)/¯

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    ^Are those gravel shorts?
    LOL..HaHa My first summer of MTBiking 83' Lost Lk....Taos,N.M.

  27. #27
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    Wow. Another thread ripping on classic geometry. I wonder who started it...

  28. #28
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    No sense of humour
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by djlee View Post
    I ride my 20 year old steel road bike on gravel.
    I ride my 9 year old 29er xc race bike on gravel.
    I ride my 120 full sus 29er on gravel.
    I ride my 27.5 plus steel am hardtail on gravel.
    I ride my fatbike on gravel.
    I commute 24/7/365 on pavement or singletrack or gravel, depending on mood and weather.
    When I raced cx, I rode my cx bike on gravel.
    When I raced tri, I rode my tri-bike on gravel, but in hindsight, that wasn't the best idea I ever had...
    I haven't driven to work in a car since last May.

    What's funny to me is that the bike industry is slowly catching on to ideas that are 100+ years old:
    Riding bikes is fun.
    Bikes are more capable than people think.
    Most riders do not race, so a bike designed for racing is silly.
    Most of the world is NOT paved.

    Used to be, they weren't called "gravel bikes." They were just called "bikes."
    But yes, I do think this trend is kind of funny.

    It's obvious the MTB industry is running out of new ideas to sell people. They are basically taking a $200 Walmart road bike, slapping some cheap 'brand name' parts on it, putting a major bike label on the frame, calling it 'quality', and then selling it for $750-1500. If the end justifies the means then it's a great way to generate profit.

    I was looking at hybrid rigid bikes for road and trails a few days ago, came across a carbon-fiber $750 gravel bike. OK, interesting, until I saw that the weight is 27 lbs. FOR A RIGID CARBON BIKE. I'm like WTF there are aluminum hardtails out there for not much more that weigh the same and can do way, way more than a gravel road. And if you want you can just get skinny tires and to the same damn thing anyway and you have a bike that can do gravel and trails. I just don't get gravel bikes. If they were really light, like 20 lbs, I'd consider trying one out but 27lbs for basically a road bike is a joke.
    ABSU: Arrogantly executing mythological occult metal since 1991.

  30. #30
    Bikesexual
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    My 3 bikes give me 3 different riding experiences, I'm ok with that.

  31. #31
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I didn't think so until I read this

    Gravel bikes: roadie revenge on mountain bike progress? - BikeRadar USA

    "Gravel bikes: roadie revenge on mountain bike progress?
    The hot new thing... or a last-gasp attempt to turn back the clock? asks Steve Williams

    Steven WilliamsMarch 09, 2018 4:00pm GMT
    The GT Grade Carbon Ultegra
    The GT Grade Carbon Ultegra
    (Robert Smith / Immediate Media)

    There's a literary genre known as alternative history, which imagines life today if key events had taken a different turn. Think Phillip K. Dick's The Man in the High Castle, Robert Harris's Fatherland or Len Deighton's SS-GB, all set in a world where the Nazis won World War Two.

    Things you don't think you need… but you actually do
    The Trek Domane Gravel is not a gravel bike
    Gravel bikes (also known as adventure bikes, also known as all-roaders, also known as basically road bikes, also known as bikes) are the cycling equivalent of alternate history. They're machines set in a world where the last 25 years of off-road progress was crushed before it could even begin, probably by Nazis.

    Look, I'm not saying gravel bikes are literally being built by Hitler (I am, it’s Godwin’s Law!), but the tubing is 98 percent Hitler and any fool can see the obsession with super-compact ‘Goering’. Sure, they pronounce it 'gearing', but that's just political correctness.

    So let’s go back to where history diverges into our new gravel bike future.

    It’s the early 2000s. For many years, mountain bike design has closely mirrored road bikes, despite the two disciplines having diametrically opposed demands. Obviously, the right geometry for smoothly undulating, solidly surfaced roads is also right for rough, loose, slippery and steep dirt.

    The people asking questions are traitors. Why would a frame designed to stay agile at 40mph with the wheels in line be anything but jack-knife twitchy at 15mph with the tyres sliding... and on smaller rims? Shhh. Get some skills, mate.

    Add drop bars to this 2013 hardtail and you’ve got a cutting-edge 2018 gravel bike
    Add drop bars to this 2013 hardtail and you’ve got a cutting-edge 2018 gravel bike
    Truth is, nobody thought that short, tall, steep frames were best off-road, even then. It was just belief. Real riders pumped their narrow tyres hard for 'fast rolling' (and low grip and high vibration and poor control) and insisted they were right, often while mid-somersault over their 'aero' super-narrow bars that rarely went fast enough for aero to count. There was no science to it. There was only the will for it to be true.

    What now if you want a bike like in the 'good old days' when just staying on at 10mph was the challenge?
    And then mountain bikes diverged. They found their own way on geometry — getting longer, lower and slacker — while even XC bikes were dragged along with roomier front triangles, wider bars and typically bigger 29in wheels. They got more stable, capable and rideable than ever. They got faster.

    But they no longer felt like road bikes. Call that progress?

    What the rise of gravel bikes demonstrates is sheer strength of will; the will for ‘old-school XC’ to remain the one true path. Those whose only criteria for a mountain bike was that it feel exactly like their road bike were lost. Yet the roadies will have their revenge — they've dragged the sketchy XC nightmare from the skip of history and upcycled it as the gravel bike.

    It’s an alternative future we need. Otherwise, what now for the Ordinary Jo(sephine) who values basic common sense over demonstrable fact? What now for the common (wo)man who values riding skill over capable machinery, because the latter is for talentless cheats?

    My god, what now if you want a bike like in the 'good old days' when just staying on at 10mph was the challenge? You spool back to where it all went wrong. Then you branch into an alternate history, where mountain bikes never discovered, use-appropriate design, and you invent the gravel bike.

    Welcome to the (alternate) future of off-road
    Welcome to the (alternate) future of off-road
    A gravel bike is a road bike, but heavier and with slower tyres. It's narrow and steep and tall, and you can't shift your weight much, so it teaches you ancient, authentic skills such as 'desperately trying not to crash' and 'how to still crash' and 'acting superior even now you've crashed’. It's just like mountain biking used to be, before it was ruined by marketing BS! And quantifiable progress! And by, you know, physics!

    Okay, your new gravel/adventure/gravelrash-adventure bike will probably have disc brakes, but maybe you can convert it to cantilever for that 'real' feel of loudly destroying your narrow rims while not slowing down. But watch out! It might have 650b wheels, which are so new-fangled you'll positively vomit.

    Hilariously, 650b/27.5in wheels could become the next big thing for gravel bikes, because designers have discovered they allow a greater air volume for the same 700c overall diameter. I say 'hilariously' because watching gravel bikes slowly rediscover basic concepts such as fat tyres and suspension, as if the last 25+ years of mountain bike evolution simply didn't happen, is hilarious. Maybe in another 100 years they’ll cautiously try flat bars.

    None of this is to say you shouldn't get a gravel bike. By all means, buy one and ride on some gravel. Take a piece of gravel home as a souvenir. Have it mounted. It's the kind of surface we could previously only dream of traversing, here in our alternate history where mountain bikes never happened. Your gravel bike will be slightly more comfy than a road bike, probably, and a little bit more versatile, though not as fast on tarmac (so you'll still need a proper road bike).

    Most importantly, though, it'll feel just like your road bike, so you won't have to learn anything new. Just staying on board is the challenge… and any fool will tell you that's the absolute definition of a proper mountain bike."
    Travis, did I miss something in the rule books? Or some kind of inner circle code of sorts? What’s with the blue script? I recently saw another member doing this consistently and he was pretty obnoxious even with the blue script. I’m just wondering why?
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  32. #32
    chasing simplicity
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    Maybe what happens when you copy/paste online text?
    I know what it's like to be dead. "To Die & Live In LA."

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    No sense of humour
    Or a different sense of humor. I don't get it either.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    My 3 bikes give me 3 different riding experiences, I'm ok with that.

    Not me, I want my road bike to handle exactly like my mountain bike
    I brake for stinkbugs

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Not me, I want my road bike to handle exactly like my mountain bike
    Now, that's funny.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattMay View Post
    Maybe what happens when you copy/paste online text?
    Nope, it was premeditated.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    Tough crowd, I guess there are people who take The Onion seriously too...

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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    Tough crowd, I guess there are people who take The Onion seriously too...

    But the Onion is funny.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    Tough crowd, I guess there are people who take The Onion seriously too...
    I haven’t read anything past the shockingly blue script. I couldn’t even read that without Blue Blockers on. Once I get an answer on why, then and only then can I continue on in.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I haven’t read anything past the shockingly blue script. I couldn’t even read that without Blue Blockers on. Once I get an answer on why, then and only then can I continue on in.
    My guess is that he wanted to highlight the update to his post.

    Someone couldn't access the link.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    My guess is that he wanted to highlight the update to his post.

    Someone couldn't access the link.
    I guess I just got irritated due to another member constantly highlighting in blue in every response he was doing in some very controversial threads, I think you know who I am talking about.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    Interesting piece. Like something I'd write except better written.

    I can see the point in questioning the use of road bike geometry for an off-road bike but if you're just putting in miles on gravel roads well then that's really more like road biking than mountain biking. So then road geometry works.

    And there's also something to be said for riding ill-suited bikes on tough terrain. For a time I had a Goodwill junker fixie with flat bars and cross tires that was too big for me. I had a blast trying to ride single track track on it. Log hops were gnarly. It made a normally boring trail really interesting. And when you're as skilled as I am most trails seem boring. So that was cool.

    But you can also take it too far. The whole road bike party thing is pretty stupid.
    "You can be clipped in and be boring or ride flats and have a good time." - Sam Hill

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    Quote Originally Posted by tealy View Post
    And when you're as skilled as I am most trails seem boring.
    I guess that's the stage your mind wanders and you start thinking about brake levers.

  44. #44
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    Better?
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Better?
    That’s what you bring? And here I thought you stopped talking to me. [blushing]
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    It's obvious the MTB industry is running out of new ideas to sell people. They are basically taking a $200 Walmart road bike, slapping some cheap 'brand name' parts on it, putting a major bike label on the frame, calling it 'quality', and then selling it for $750-1500. If the end justifies the means then it's a great way to generate profit.

    I was looking at hybrid rigid bikes for road and trails a few days ago, came across a carbon-fiber $750 gravel bike. OK, interesting, until I saw that the weight is 27 lbs. FOR A RIGID CARBON BIKE. I'm like WTF there are aluminum hardtails out there for not much more that weigh the same and can do way, way more than a gravel road. And if you want you can just get skinny tires and to the same damn thing anyway and you have a bike that can do gravel and trails. I just don't get gravel bikes. If they were really light, like 20 lbs, I'd consider trying one out but 27lbs for basically a road bike is a joke.
    Ah, Rich, there you go again…

    My gravel bike is an old CX bike, steel frame (853) and 22 lbs (or less). I bought it so I could road ride from home, which involves 2 miles of road and then cutting through some single track to access a lot more road. I mainly bought it so I can commute to work; without accessing the single track, I can't safely get to the bike lanes on the busy roads, not even by riding on sidewalk. So I wanted a road bike that could handle some single track rather than a mountain bike that could handle a lot of road. It is fun on gravel roads as well.

    Yep, cheaper carbon fiber bikes aren't any lighter than aluminum (or high quality steel).
    There are two types of people in this world:
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    My gravel bike is an old CX bike, steel frame (853) and 22 lbs (or less). So I wanted a road bike that could handle some single track rather than a mountain bike that could handle a lot of road. It is fun on gravel roads as well.
    But how do you know it's not a 28lb Walmart bike with a different sticker on it? And what makes you so sure it's steel? I hear they all ride the same. This is not a believable story without scientific evidence provided by astronauts.
    Rigid SS 29er
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    But how do you know it's not a 28lb Walmart bike with a different sticker on it? And what makes you so sure it's steel? I hear they all ride the same. This is not a believable story without scientific evidence provided by astronauts.
    Well, it does say "Greg LeBlond" on it, but that was probably just a typo at the factory.
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    But how do you know it's not a 28lb Walmart bike with a different sticker on it? And what makes you so sure it's steel? I hear they all ride the same. This is not a believable story without scientific evidence provided by astronauts.
    It's hard to know exactly what the bike's weight really is before you buy it, unless it's at an LBS and there is a scale right there. There are bikes online that say 10.8 kg (about 24 lbs), and then in the question section someone asks how much the bike weighs, and the seller often replies 26 or 27 lbs. When you go down below 27 lbs, pricing starts going up exponentially so it's not a trivial question of the bike's true weight. There are some manufacturers I've seen that have a bike for $850 at 27 lbs, and then the same bike frame with lighter components at $1700 for 24 lbs. 3 lbs less, price doubled. If it's really 24 lbs, great, but if you bring it home and weigh it and it's 27 lbs after all, OK...you have better components but you could have those on a cheaper aluminum bike to begin with.

    As for the sarcasm, yeah everyone should spend all their hard-earned money on a steel gravel bike that 'feels' better, that would really do wonders for the MTB world. And as for mislabeling: American companies can and do lie too; lying is not exclusive to certain other countries that mass produce bikes. Overpriced bikes are not an infowars conspiracy theory. Bikes and components are mislabeled all the time for online purchases, for example:

    1.0 out of 5 stars
    It was a very good counterfeit Shimano product
    December 12, 2017
    Verified Purchase

    It was a very good counterfeit Shimano product. I took the brake to my LBS and the pistons were not working so my mechanic wondered. He checked the brakes thoroughly and found out that the brakes aren't real Shimano but instead it was Grade A fake Shimano, the imprinted "Shimano" logo on the caliper seems to be unaligned as well, we compared the real one vs this one. We started to run the serial number of it from Shimano website and boom zero match! the UPC code on the box only consist of 3 numbers "002" and maybe less than 10 UPC bar lines. That seemed pretty obvious already, ever wondered why the box is brown and customized sellers name on it with Shimano logo? Box should be blue and grey color and the UPC code should be imprinted not stickers on generic box. Hmmmmmm... Beware of the fake ones out here that being sold as regular price. Glad I returned it and got me an XT instead from Jenson for just extra $40 more.
    ABSU: Arrogantly executing mythological occult metal since 1991.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    It's hard to know exactly what the bike's weight really is before you buy it, unless it's at an LBS and there is a scale right there. There are bikes online that say 10.8 kg (about 24 lbs), and then in the question section someone asks how much the bike weighs, and the seller often replies 26 or 27 lbs. When you go down below 27 lbs, pricing starts going up exponentially so it's not a trivial question of the bike's true weight. There are some manufacturers I've seen that have a bike for $850 at 27 lbs, and then the same bike frame with lighter components at $1700 for 24 lbs. 3 lbs less, price doubled. If it's really 24 lbs, great, but if you bring it home and weigh it and it's 27 lbs after all, OK...you have better components but you could have those on a cheaper aluminum bike to begin with.

    As for the sarcasm, yeah everyone should spend all their hard-earned money on a steel gravel bike that 'feels' better, that would really do wonders for the MTB world. And as for mislabeling: American companies can and do lie too; lying is not exclusive to certain other countries that mass produce bikes. Overpriced bikes are not an infowars conspiracy theory. Bikes and components are mislabeled all the time for online purchases, for example:

    1.0 out of 5 stars
    It was a very good counterfeit Shimano product
    December 12, 2017
    Verified Purchase

    It was a very good counterfeit Shimano product. I took the brake to my LBS and the pistons were not working so my mechanic wondered. He checked the brakes thoroughly and found out that the brakes aren't real Shimano but instead it was Grade A fake Shimano, the imprinted "Shimano" logo on the caliper seems to be unaligned as well, we compared the real one vs this one. We started to run the serial number of it from Shimano website and boom zero match! the UPC code on the box only consist of 3 numbers "002" and maybe less than 10 UPC bar lines. That seemed pretty obvious already, ever wondered why the box is brown and customized sellers name on it with Shimano logo? Box should be blue and grey color and the UPC code should be imprinted not stickers on generic box. Hmmmmmm... Beware of the fake ones out here that being sold as regular price. Glad I returned it and got me an XT instead from Jenson for just extra $40 more.
    Thank you for explaining to me how the bike industry works.
    Rigid SS 29er
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    What a hater. I don't see the problem?

    Yes, old school XC hardtail geo isn't far from "gravel bike" geo, which is only slightly different than cyclocross geo, which is only slightly different than road bike geo. What's your point? Tire clearance may be the biggest difference, but the author has completely omitted MonsterCross bikes and Drop Bar 29ers.

    I just got back from NAHBS, there were a lot of drop bar bikes with big knobby tires. Some had 27.5x2.4" tires, some had 40mm travel suspension forks, some were even full suspension (or soft tail), and most had dropper posts. I dare you to explain to me why any of those are the wrong bike or shouldn't exist.

    It's a pretty cool segment of the cycling market IMO. I am a mountain biker first and foremost. I had a decent collection of MTBs until a couple years ago when I built my first cross bike. I rode it all the time when I couldn't ride trails due to weather. Lame winter and freeze/thaw is a pain, and I wanted to keep riding but hate riding on the road. The cross bike was super versatile, capable of some road or trail, fun, nimble, etc. My Urban Assault rides are super fun, adventurous, and more than half singletrack. Cross bike works pretty well.

    I've since built up another cross bike which has extremely similar geo to other manufacturers gravel bikes, touring bikes, and cross bikes. The name or sub category is less important than the fun, function, and versatility of these kinds of bikes. Yes, you can do all similar things on a hardtail MTB with a simple tire swap, but I enjoy riding my cross bike off road, I enjoy being under-biked.

    My latest MonsterCross bike is my "do whatever" bike. Charity ride, bike packing, gravel race, grocery getter, all day rider, you name it. Ride out your front door to your next adventure bike. Who doesn't want that?

    It's kind of funny, other than disc brakes the Surly Cross Check was pretty much exactly what I was after all along, I just never noticed. Surly got it right so many years ago.

    That's great. Glad that you have fun on gravel roads. But if you are mountain biker first and foremost why would you prefer gravel??? Is it that much more exciting than a downhill dirt trail???

    If I say (from experience) that a $200 Walmart bike does just fine up and down a gravel road all day, is that offensive? It's just the truth, sorry if it's offensive. I enjoy being underbiked too but gravel roads? Damn I feel pretty adventurous now that I actually prefer something more challenging than gravel. All of the bikes you mention above can exist all they want but some people find it 'funny' that someone would pay a lot of money just to ride on gravel, that's all. I'm not a huge fan of the OP but he's 100% on point in this particular case. I don't think anyone is bashing urban rides, it's just a question of are you getting what you are paying for with an extremely easy ride compared with a downhill dirt trail.
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    ^ thank you again for explaining how I'm wrong. I value your very experienced opinion.
    Rigid SS 29er
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  53. #53
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    Where I ride in Idaho, the "gravel," er, basalt-impregnated forest roads would shake that POS $200 walgoose into a yard sale of substandard parts quicker than you can say "baked potato." Flying down those roads on my rigid SS to link up comparatively smooth singletrack trails is a recipe for advanced dental work.
    ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    I love pizza, but I enjoy a burrito every now and then.

    Doesn't this look inviting?

    Gravel Bikes Are Funny-pastures.jpg

    Gravel Bikes Are Funny-moo.jpg

    Gravel Bikes Are Funny-bridge.jpg

    Gravel Bikes Are Funny-boulder.jpg

    Gravel Bikes Are Funny-lemond_soap_creek_2.jpg
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  55. #55
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    I love my gravel bike!

    I just don't get those goofy fat bikes and their followers...
    Stick around if you're housebroken...

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    It's funny that me when I see people spandex'd out with their hardtail/rigid/locked out suspension bike on highly groomed trails and can't help but think "just ride a road bike already!".

    I bought a gravel bike after giving road biking try and just not liking it. Mine has 650b tires and a Lefty, so it's even more of a frankenbike. I'd rather leave my mountain bikes for the single track since they're boring and slow on gravel/fire roads.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    I love pizza, but I enjoy a burrito every now and then.

    Doesn't this look inviting?
    That looks awesome!! We don't have many long gravel roads like that (at least near me) in SoCal. I wish we did.

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    I don't think gravel bikes are the best tool for any 1 ride type (except for maybe long, flat, gravel roads, which I would never choose to ride).

    But I do think gravel bikes are great for mixed terrain rides with a lot of pavement as well as tame trails. Also, as others have mentioned, sometimes it's fun to be under-biked to spice up a boring trail.

    There are several non-technical trail systems within 5-15 miles of my house. They aren't interesting enough to go to the trouble of loading the rack and MTB onto my car, and it's no fun to ride that much pavement on a real mountain bike. Enter the gravel bike. . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid Duffman View Post
    But I do think gravel bikes are great for mixed terrain rides with a lot of pavement as well as tame trails. Also, as others have mentioned, sometimes it's fun to be under-biked to spice up a boring trail.

    There are several non-technical trail systems within 5-15 miles of my house. They aren't interesting enough to go to the trouble of loading the rack and MTB onto my car, and it's no fun to ride that much pavement on a real mountain bike. Enter the gravel bike. . .
    +1. Where I live there are several mixed-terrain commuting options where a gravel bike (a.k.a. under-biked MTB, a.k.a. over-biked roadie) would be perfect.
    ¯\(°_o)/¯

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    Shi-at n**gro, I invented that sport. "Back in my day", dirt roads were all we had to ride on, and ride them we did. 20+mph average speeds weren't uncommon. Then I moved west to race mountain bikes, and showed up for anything a fat tired bike was allowed to enter. MTB races, cyclocross races, even a dirt road race they called the Boulder-Roubiax.

    This whole "gravel" thing is just silly. Nothing but another attempt by a failing industry to sell more crap people don't need. With "fat biking" never catching on as predicted, they had to try something.


    .

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    Gravel Bikes Are Funny

    https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180314/35fee8328dc2dce428f031b8e18f2fac.jpg" width="549">
    Enjoy the ride...

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    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    Shi-at n**gro, I invented that sport. "Back in my day", dirt roads were all we had to ride on, and ride them we did. 20+mph average speeds weren't uncommon. Then I moved west to race mountain bikes, and showed up for anything a fat tired bike was allowed to enter. MTB races, cyclocross races, even a dirt road race they called the Boulder-Roubiax.

    This whole "gravel" thing is just silly. Nothing but another attempt by a failing industry to sell more crap people don't need. With "fat biking" never catching on as predicted, they had to try something.


    .
    Is there some secret elixir in a gravel bike we don't know about? If someone already has a road bike, why can't they just put on hybrid tires? For this kind of riding there are a gazillon hybrid tire choices that are dirt cheap, no pun intended, they are like $20/tire. Or you get a cheap wheelset and put on 2 inch hybrid tires, no need to buy a whole new bike to ride on gravel...
    ABSU: Arrogantly executing mythological occult metal since 1991.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Is there some secret elixir in a gravel bike we don't know about? If someone already has a road bike, why can't they just put on hybrid tires? For this kind of riding there are a gazillon hybrid tire choices that are dirt cheap, no pun intended, they are like $20/tire. Or you get a cheap wheelset and put on 2 inch hybrid tires, no need to buy a whole new bike to ride on gravel...
    Though they have gotten wider clearance the last few years, most road bikes will not fit very wide tires, sometimes not even 28s.
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    Some of you are really misinformed or ignorant about gravel riding. Take a few minutes to read something about the history and current state of the scene before commenting. There are some profoundly ignorant statements here.
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  65. #65
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    Ha ha that article is so funny! I've often wondered if the "Gravel bike" was created by roadies who choose to ignore the fact that mountain biking ever happened (but secretly want to be mountain bikers) or by mountain bikers who secretly want to be roadies? Either way, bikes are awesome and I don't care what surface I'm riding one on.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Some of you are really misinformed or ignorant about gravel riding.

    Are North Road bars OK?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    Are North Road bars OK?
    No, definitely not!
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Is there some secret elixir in a gravel bike we don't know about? If someone already has a road bike, why can't they just put on hybrid tires?
    Where can I buy some good 25c hybrid gravel tires?
    I brake for stinkbugs

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    No, definitely not!
    You're right, they're fantastic.

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    Shenanigans
    Rigid SS 29er
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  71. #71
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    Stick around if you're housebroken...

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Where can I buy some good 25c hybrid gravel tires?

    https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n...7&rnid=3375301

    The 'hybrid' tires are really cheap, like $20 each


    https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n...0&rnid=3375301

    The 'gravel' tires vary a lot in price, 50% more than hybrid to around 700% more ($30 to $140 each).
    ABSU: Arrogantly executing mythological occult metal since 1991.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n...7&rnid=3375301

    The 'hybrid' tires are really cheap, like $20 each


    https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n...0&rnid=3375301

    The 'gravel' tires vary a lot in price, 50% more than hybrid to around 700% more ($30 to $140 each).
    I think he was being facetious, all those tires are 1.5-2.2” widths. Road bikes will not fit those size tires
    Enjoy the ride...

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    One thing I find funny is that they're not even new. The frame of my commuter bike is 20 years old. It was marketed as a "cyclocross" frame with a high BB, but it has MTB tubing, conventional cable runs, two bottle mounts, dual eyelets, and rack mounts on the unicrown seatstay bridge. There was a similar contemporary Trek X01. The successors to it, in the 2000's, had disk brakes. Even just before the "gravel" thing you could get a CAADX or a Cross Check. And you could probably do just as well on a 45 year old UO-8

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkr80015 View Post
    I think he was being facetious, all those tires are 1.5-2.2” widths. Road bikes will not fit those size tires
    Is he? He seems to be doubling down on the idea that a bike with clearance for 25mm tires can become a gravel-worthy bike by cramming 50mm tires in there. Crappy tires that ride like ass on any surface, at that.
    Last edited by mack_turtle; 03-15-2018 at 02:22 PM.
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    Gravel Bikes Are Funny

    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Is he? He seems to be doubling down on the idea that a bike with clearance for 25mm tires can become a gravel-worthy bike by cramming 50mm tires in there. Crappy tires that ride like ass on any surface, at that.
    that’s what I was trying to get across, he said it so much better. I was dumbing it down
    Enjoy the ride...

  77. #77
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    Canyon's New Grail gravel bike

    I know what it's like to be dead. "To Die & Live In LA."

  78. #78
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    After seeing that Canyon handlebar, NOW gravel bikes are funny. The proverbial shark has been metaphorically jumped.
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  79. #79
    Thread already spun
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    After seeing that Canyon handlebar, NOW gravel bikes are funny. The proverbial shark has been metaphorically jumped.
    I was trying to warn you.

  80. #80
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    That Canyon bar looks ridiculous. "so I want a bar that will have no adjustment whatsoever and look goofy as hell" said no one ever. If they wanted flex, maybe put on some actual suspension.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    I was trying to warn you.
    Yeah, in retrospect, I was wrong about North Road bars.
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  82. #82
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    Gravel Bikes Are Funny

    looks smooth now but gets pretty rutted and muddy later
    Enjoy the ride...

  83. #83
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    I don't particularly think gravel bikes are funny but that article is, or rather it's stupid.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    After seeing that Canyon handlebar, NOW gravel bikes are funny. The proverbial shark has been metaphorically jumped.
    I wonder how it performs. It is a freaky looking for sure.
    Stick around if you're housebroken...

  85. #85
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    I've always thought a gravel bike should be an obsolete rigid/hardtail with bar ends or something like a surly cross check.

    Spending 2K-3K on a carbon "gravel bike" seems a bit pointless.
    "You can be clipped in and be boring or ride flats and have a good time." - Sam Hill

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by tealy View Post
    I've always thought a gravel bike should be an obsolete rigid/hardtail with bar ends or something like a surly cross check.

    Spending 2K-3K on a carbon "gravel bike" seems a bit pointless.
    One person's "pointless" is another person's lots of fun.

    Gravel Bikes Are Funny-export-1771.jpg

    I can see how wankers would be attracted to the article though.

  87. #87
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    people forget that "gravel riding" has purely roadie roots. to a roadie, spending money on a bike they can ride on endless miles of country ROADS makes just as much sense as a XC rider buying an AM bike so they can enjoy miles of backcountry trails. if you don't understand that, don't shit on other people's choices out of your own ignorance.
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  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    people forget that "gravel riding" has purely roadie roots. to a roadie, spending money on a bike they can ride on endless miles of country ROADS makes just as much sense as a XC rider buying an AM bike so they can enjoy miles of backcountry trails. if you don't understand that, don't shit on other people's choices out of your own ignorance.
    You are correct.

    I don't understand the decisions made by roadies and xc riders.

  89. #89
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    Somewhere on the internet right now, there's some roadie forum where they are discussing how "funny" dropper posts, 3" wide tires, and "enduro" bikes are. It is all a matter of perspective.
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  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by tealy View Post
    I don't understand the decisions made by roadies and xc riders.
    I don’t understand people who assume that only roadies and XC riders decide to have fun on a gravel bike.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by tealy View Post
    You are correct.

    I don't understand the decisions made by roadies and xc riders.




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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Gravel bike hate is imagined.
    Sweet.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by tealy View Post
    You are correct.

    I don't understand the decisions made by roadies and xc riders.
    I don't understand what you are saying.

    Name:  Screen Shot 2018-03-28 at 10.57.44 AM.png
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    There are two types of people in this world:
    1) Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    I don't understand what you are saying.

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    He bought baggies on closeout last year so no longer a xc rider. Profile update on its way.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

  94. #94
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    Understanding is a 3-edged sword

  95. #95
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    I don't care about gravel bikes one way or another. My cross bike is gathering dust in the garage these days. I think the point was that gravel bikes are following the same development path that mountain bikes did. Some have suspension forks now so how long will it be until rear suspension gravel bikes are a thing?
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    so how long will it be until rear suspension gravel bikes are a thing?
    You already missed the dawn of that epoch. Niner has one. Dropper posts, too.

    Yeah, it's getting out of hand. The idea of a gravel bike is awesome. I use a cx bike for that sort of thing, but I understand how it could be tweaked to be better on gravel road type terrain. but at a certain point, it's just becoming a mountain bike. Kind of like how mountain bikes are slowly turning into motorcycles.

    Will we see an e-gravel bike? God, have mercy on us if we do!
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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by tealy View Post
    You are correct.

    I don't understand the decisions made by roadies and xc riders.
    You know, bikes are fun, you should try riding them.

    Some people call me a roadie, maybe because I do about 300 miles a week, mostly on the road.

    Some call me an enduro rider, because when I am on dirt it is almost always my Enduro. And I tend to like to climb it at a conservative pace, and hammer the most chunky trails I can get on (jumps with gaps are a bonus). I find that kind of riding in my baggies and flat pedals to be most 'fun'.

    Some people call me a CX racer, because I line up in the A group during cross season.

    Some people call me an XC racer, because according to my racing license, I'm pretty good at it.

    Some people call me a triathlete, because I enjoy doing a swim before my ride, and going for a run (though I'm not sure how more Ironmans I will do, I like going shorter).

    Some people just enjoy riding bikes without being judgment of other people's riding choices. Those people are probably happier than you.

  98. #98
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    What kind of world would it be if we couldn't argue and complain about trivial pointless things of absolutely no importance?
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    No sense of humour
    I actually thought it was pretty funny.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  100. #100
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    Maybe being rattled to bits by riding a bike with no suspension and skinny tyres off-road makes you humourless and jaded?

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