Results 1 to 43 of 43
  1. #1
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,623

    Garmin Edge Touring

    I've read some early reviews of the new Garmin Edge Touring, which should be make a great GPS-Cyclometer with trail/road routing functions.

    However, there has been no mention of its ability to show topo maps or records point similar to the Garmin Mapping devices.

    Anyone read any reviews that mention these capabilities?
    GIS/GPS Pro using ArcFM for Utility Mapping - Always willing to connect with other MTBers in the industry.

  2. #2
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    18,551
    https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/into...rod134596.html

    this is dangerous, I think. Not as in "life threatening" dangerous. Dangerous, as in "changes the way people think about a cycling GPS, and not necessarily in a good way". The big marketing language for this is that it supposedly works the same way your auto GPS does, except for cycling. It seems to have new routing capability (round trip rides), which I think is a good idea for roads.

    I don't like it for mtb trails. It relies too heavily on mtb trails being included on the GPS. I've seen this trend coming for years now. When Garmin first started putting routable trails in its maps, I knew they were building up for this kind of functionality. The problem with this is that trails aren't roads. They are not always there. Permissions change. They can get very significant reroutes in a relatively short amount of time that change routing quite significantly. This can pose serious problems for trail advocates. For example, in a park near me, an old crappy trail system was entirely closed and a new multiuse trail system was built in its place. The park has had a difficult time closing off some of the old trails, because people who knew the old system just kept using them (clearing blockages, destroying signs, etc). A device like this would increase that challenge because the maps would continue routing people down closed trails. Additionally, new trails are built in relatively short amounts of time. People already rely too much on their car GPS or their bike GPS for route finding. A device like this that advertises trail routing obviously won't route people down new trails that aren't on the map and that's going to generate a LOT of disappointment among folks who would buy it expecting it to know all the trails the way their car GPS knows all the roads.

    And I think this will be a somewhat popular unit because of its price point. It will be Garmin's least expensive Edge with mapping. Garmin's site says it does have the ability to add maps, and that it accepts microSD cards. Pretty much no fitness capability, except that the Touring Plus has ANT+ and seems to be compatible with HRM straps only. What I find interesting is that the Touring Plus uses ANT+ to show range, remaining charge, and other data on compatible eBikes.

    Here's Garmin's marketing vid.

    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/MA9V1M2ikqs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    This looks to me like mtb functionality is mostly an afterthought. Most of the functions promoted for this receiver seem to be developed for on-road bike touring. If you think about it, it makes sense. It's far easier to keep track of paved bike paths, dirt roads, and regular roads in your map database than it is to keep track of singletrack mtb trails.

    It seems to be built on the Edge 810 platform. The screen and battery life look identical, so I would expect the rest of the hardware (like the GPS chip) to be identical. If you're looking for a basic mapping Edge for topos, don't want any of the extra sensors or training functions, don't want smartphone integration, and have no delusions about the new routing functions being very useful for mtb trails, it might be worth a look. I noticed that the regular Touring model lacks a barometric altimeter and that the Touring Plus has that sensor. That would be similar to the old 205/305 and 605/705 designations.

  3. #3
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,623
    Nate,

    I've never used any of the Edge series. My experience is mostly with the GPSMap 60 and eTrex units. I used those units to catalog trail condition, existing trail locations, and do trail mapping/tracking to upload through DNR Garmin into ESRI ArcGIS.

    Do the Edge series allow me to place a point at the current location, give it a name such as "Wet Trail 1" and add notes about the point like "50' of trail appears to be collecting runoff - needs grade improvements?"
    GIS/GPS Pro using ArcFM for Utility Mapping - Always willing to connect with other MTBers in the industry.

  4. #4
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    18,551
    Quote Originally Posted by PHeller View Post
    Nate,

    I've never used any of the Edge series. My experience is mostly with the GPSMap 60 and eTrex units. I used those units to catalog trail condition, existing trail locations, and do trail mapping/tracking to upload through DNR Garmin into ESRI ArcGIS.

    Do the Edge series allow me to place a point at the current location, give it a name such as "Wet Trail 1" and add notes about the point like "50' of trail appears to be collecting runoff - needs grade improvements?"
    Not really. The device says it can hold up to 200 waypoints/favorites. IME, the interface for adding waypoints on fitness units that have the functionality kinda sucks. It tends to be buried under a menu or two and there isn't much you can do with it. This one will probably be better than my Forerunner 310XT, but I expect it won't give you what you want for your purposes.

    I'd stay away from fitness models for documenting maintenance needs. If I was buying a unit for that now, I'd be getting one with a geotagging camera. That way, I'd have to write fewer notes about the problem, and the location would be included with the photo. Specifically, as I mentioned in the Trailbuilding forum just the other day, I'd be getting the Garmin Monterra for that purpose. It's Android-based and can run a full mobile GIS. If you've never used a mobile GIS in the field, it's nice. You can't run the full ArcPad on Android (it's Windows Mobile only), but ESRI does have a couple of mobile apps for Android.

  5. #5
    Formerly PaintPeelinPbody
    Reputation: PHeller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,623
    The Monterra is pretty cool, but a bit out of my price range at this moment. Once I have a better idea of my needs for this little part-time gig I'll be doing, I may decide I want those added features.

    Looks like the eTrex 20 will work for the time being.
    GIS/GPS Pro using ArcFM for Utility Mapping - Always willing to connect with other MTBers in the industry.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: metalaficionado's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,990
    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/into...rod134596.html

    this is dangerous, I think. Not as in "life threatening" dangerous. Dangerous, as in "changes the way people think about a cycling GPS, and not necessarily in a good way". The big marketing language for this is that it supposedly works the same way your auto GPS does, except for cycling. It seems to have new routing capability (round trip rides), which I think is a good idea for roads.

    I don't like it for mtb trails. It relies too heavily on mtb trails being included on the GPS. I've seen this trend coming for years now. When Garmin first started putting routable trails in its maps, I knew they were building up for this kind of functionality. The problem with this is that trails aren't roads. They are not always there. Permissions change. They can get very significant reroutes in a relatively short amount of time that change routing quite significantly. This can pose serious problems for trail advocates. For example, in a park near me, an old crappy trail system was entirely closed and a new multiuse trail system was built in its place. The park has had a difficult time closing off some of the old trails, because people who knew the old system just kept using them (clearing blockages, destroying signs, etc). A device like this would increase that challenge because the maps would continue routing people down closed trails. Additionally, new trails are built in relatively short amounts of time. People already rely too much on their car GPS or their bike GPS for route finding. A device like this that advertises trail routing obviously won't route people down new trails that aren't on the map and that's going to generate a LOT of disappointment among folks who would buy it expecting it to know all the trails the way their car GPS knows all the roads.

    .
    That's like saying every single written book or printed map with MTB trails is dangerous. The edge touring is going to use open cycle maps, don't they at least get updated every so often?... a old printed MAP is WAY more dangerous.

    For one I applaud garmin for at least try to cater a bit to MTBers, I am looking to purchase the unit. I am not planning to use the routing feature. As always, I plan to use user created, proven GPX files. But the ability to overlay over a gpx over an open cycle maps which often displays off road bike trails is exciting. That's 1000x better than looking at a breadcrumb trail over empty space in a lame base map.
    Routing feature is great as back up on the field, in case you need to bail out.

  7. #7
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    18,551
    I don't think you paid attention to my description of what I meant by dangerous.

    I see NOTHING on the product page about using Open Cycle Maps. The specs page says the unit will work with GARMIN Cycle Map data cards. So folks are supposed to rely on GARMIN to provide up-to-date data. That's not to say it's not possible to put OSM cycle map data on there. Folks have been putting OSM data on their Garmins for years. You don't need THIS GPS for that.

    There's a big difference between paper maps and digital data. That difference is the EXPECTATIONS people have. People have come to expect from their auto GPS receivers that updates to road data are available quarterly. That's not too difficult to accomplish. Roads are there and VERY heavily traveled. Map data providers have armies of mapping cars to cover the newest road segments. I would not EXPECT a GPS with "some" mtb trails on it to correctly route me back to the trailhead the shortest or quickest way.

    I think it's good practice for road GPS receivers to have different routing capability than handheld and offroad GPS receivers. The reason for that has to do with the unpredictability of offroad situations. Paper maps frequently mention this unpredictability of certain areas as notes on the map page.

    If you think Garmin will be providing quarterly updates to mountain bike trail data, you're kidding yourself. Relying on user generated and submitted data for trails is a much better solution. You still have to be careful of the age of files you choose to download. I'm not aware of any situations of folks downloading an old ride from Garmin Connect and learning on the trail that the trail system has been redone and their GPS file is worthless, but I'm sure that's happened because trails do get occasional complete overhauls.

  8. #8
    Workin for the weekend!
    Reputation: -Todd-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,179
    So, what's the verdict on the touring units? I'm looking for something I can plug a gxp route into and use to navigate a (proven) trail in unfamiliar areas. Will this unit do this for me in a useful manner or am I better off looking at something along the lines of etrex?

    I'm not interested in the higher end 810 or even the 510, I'm a rider who likes to get lost and then find my way back. Don't care too much for the extras on those "training" GPS units.

    Thanks for any input!
    Todd

  9. #9
    DFMBA.org
    Reputation: MTBeing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,700
    Quote Originally Posted by -Todd- View Post
    So, what's the verdict on the touring units? I'm looking for something I can plug a gxp route into and use to navigate a (proven) trail in unfamiliar areas. Will this unit do this for me in a useful manner or am I better off looking at something along the lines of etrex?

    I'm not interested in the higher end 810 or even the 510, I'm a rider who likes to get lost and then find my way back. Don't care too much for the extras on those "training" GPS units.

    Thanks for any input!
    This what I'm looking for as well. My Forerunner 310XT is charge-glitching (showing more charge than what's really there) so I'm kinda looking for another solution.
    Please donate to IMBA or your local IMBA chapter. It's trail karma.

  10. #10
    Workin for the weekend!
    Reputation: -Todd-'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,179
    I think the etrex models offer the best guidance and versatility for anyone doing both off-road cycling and geocaching...

    The touring seems quite limited after detailed evaluation...
    Todd

  11. #11
    I am Walt
    Reputation: waltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    4,716
    Hey all,

    Since my 305 crapped out a year ago, I've been using Strava on my iPhone, or my Forerunner watch. I'd like to get another handlebar display that will show my ride data (distance, time, HR, calories, elevation gained), and also give me the ability to upload maps/tracks for some of the more complex/backcountry-ish routes/rides. I don't need it for road biking routes, and don't need cadence or power...just the basics above. The Edge Touring Plus seems to provide exactly what I want.

    Thoughts?
    Ride more; post less...

  12. #12
    K3N
    K3N is offline
    Certified slacker
    Reputation: K3N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    201
    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    Hey all,

    Since my 305 crapped out a year ago, I've been using Strava on my iPhone, or my Forerunner watch. I'd like to get another handlebar display that will show my ride data (distance, time, HR, calories, elevation gained), and also give me the ability to upload maps/tracks for some of the more complex/backcountry-ish routes/rides. I don't need it for road biking routes, and don't need cadence or power...just the basics above. The Edge Touring Plus seems to provide exactly what I want.

    Thoughts?
    To my understanding the touring does not display any of that type of data ~(distance, time, HR, calories, elevation gained)
    My other bike is a bike

  13. #13
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    18,551
    Quote Originally Posted by K3N View Post
    To my understanding the touring does not display any of that type of data ~(distance, time, HR, calories, elevation gained)
    Not quite correct. Look at this vid.

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/MA9V1M2ikqs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    They show paging through different screens, and there's most certainly a trip computer screen shown at 0:26. No idea how customizable it may or may not be. Garmin is not good about giving out those kinds of details. You can definitely see the interface looks more like a car GPS, though, with that main screen having a "Find" and "View Map" option just like a Nuvi.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    61
    Guys, just come across this thread as I'm researching what GPS to buy. I want it to mainly guide me when on the MB for routes I don't know, by allowing me to upload gpx or similar files of trails that are available online etc. I want to then just follow the map of the trail. I'm not really interested in speed etc, although would be nice just a device that will give me the best options for following a route AND has excellent GPS coverage for when in the forest etc.

    That's it really, what unit that is small ish, not too small that it's not easy to see the screen (I currently have the montana for car/motorcycle) but that would be too big for me on the MB.

    I was thinking the Garmin Edge Touring but also maybe the Etrex 20 or 30? The Etrex series look the cheapest.

    Any thoughts?
    Cheers

  15. #15
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    18,551
    The eTrex would be a solid choice. I haven't seen any actual user reviews of the Edge Touring models for mtb use. I may have my opinions based on what I do see, but like I said in my last post, Garmin is not very good about providing certain product details in its literature.

    I did see that a shop near me sells the Touring Plus model recently. I could go in there and ask them how people are using that GPS. Of course, that's assuming they've even sold one at all.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    61
    Nate, thanks, just what I was thinking. Cant find a decent review for mtb use which is 99% what I'm going to be using it for.

    Looks like the Etrex is ticking what boxes I need and it's cheaper which also helps.

    Etrex 20 looks to do everything.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    35
    I got mine a few hours ago…

    AND I JUST BOXED IT UP TO SEND IT BACK!

    What a piece of junk!

    It failed MULTIPLE TIMES to create a route from St. Petersburg, FL to Tampa, FL.

    The single successful route it created between the two cities was not across the Gandy bridge, but above the bay and through tampa (north) instead of east!

    - Tried Cycling and Tour Cycling modes
    - Tried Shortest Distance and Shortest Time
    - I got multiple failures to create routes of any real distance
    - "error calculating route" or something similar
    - On the 'where to' screen, it said "calculating" for about 3 minutes and then just returned to the Starting/Ending screen without creating a map.

    I logged into the Garmin dashboard and the computer is up to date with firmware and maps! How horrible is that?

    I can't even express my level of disappointment. Perhaps I've been using Google Maps for too long, but this level of performance was grossly early 90's.

    I… I'm just so sad. :-(
    Last edited by Ecaz; 03-07-2014 at 08:20 PM. Reason: Added content

  18. #18
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    18,551

    Garmin Edge Touring

    Unrealistic expectations strike again!

    Routing algorithms are more art than science. I can name occasions where Google's directions have been shit, too. Their map data is NOT very accurate and they won't fix the problems even when told about them. On the whole, not appreciably different from anyone else in the game.

    You have to spend time learning the quirks of any system and learning to work with and around them. It is nobody's fault other than your own that you gave up on the Garmin after so short a test period.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    35
    I completely disagree with you.

    As you failed to recognize, the Garmin absolutely failed to provide routes at all.

    It simply stopped calculating, or provided an error about being unable to calculator a route.

    I tried multiple locations, provided firm physical addresses, and tried using "my current location" and gps coordinates via the map view.

    Simply put, the unit is ineffective, and the fact that it took such a short time to identify has nothing to do with my personal preferences.

    I appreciate your opinion, but IMHO I would be better served using physical maps and a little ingenuity.

    The $250-$300 price point for something that hardly does more than I could get from a free map at a visitors station (GPS/Speed/Distance) isn't worth the money.

    Now, if it would successfully negotiate a reasonable route from a fixed known good address to another fixed known good address, then things would be much different.

    As I said… I fully tested the unit - it immediately failed to perform proper route calculations, resulting in an error or just returning to the previous screen.

    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Unrealistic expectations strike again!

    Routing algorithms are more art than science. I can name occasions where Google's directions have been shit, too. Their map data is NOT very accurate and they won't fix the problems even when told about them. On the whole, not appreciably different from anyone else in the game.

    You have to spend time learning the quirks of any system and learning to work with and around them. It is nobody's fault other than your own that you gave up on the Garmin after so short a test period.

  20. #20
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    18,551
    You said you received it a few hours prior to your decision to box it up and send it back. I hardly call that a "full" test.

    It is quite likely that the GPS simply was unable to find a route because there were some avoidances set that precluded generating a route based on either your start or end location.

    There very well could have been some other issue.

    Did you visit Garmin's forums to read up on others' experiences with that GPS, and whether anyone else had the same issue you did? Did you contact Garmin's customer support to see if they had any suggestions for addressing your problems?

    No?

    Still your fault.

    This device DOES use a different and fairly new routing method that none of their other devices have used so far. It's to be expected that it will have difficulty under certain circumstances.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    35
    Lol - I love how you want to make this personal.

    This is not a complex device. Perhaps internally, but externally the software is very basic. It doesn't even take an hour to go through all the features, and that's completely unaware of it's functionality. Customer service isn't available after hours, so there was no one to contact. Fortunately for me, I don't require a 1-800 number to learn how to use a simple GPS. The device failed with a clear error message, or the device simply failed. The latter of which is a clear QoS issue, as the programmers didn't even generate the means to alert the end user of the reason for failure on the given screen. This is poor programming.

    Again, you fail to identify that the device failed to generate simple routes. You provide excuses with no basis on experience or factual knowledge, you just make haphazard responses to why it might not have worked. Do you even own this device? You have provided no solid solutions.

    At this point I will not be responding to you, as you clearly have no value-add to this discussion.

    For anyone still reading - Do yourself a favor and go to your LBS and try this device, hands-on, in person before purchasing… you may save yourself a lot of hassle. This device is, in my personal opinion, ineffective and unreliable.

  22. #22
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    18,551

    Garmin Edge Touring

    Giving the device a fair shake would have involved exploring at least one customer service option. That is what they are there for.

    DC Rainmaker did a review on it. No such problems described

    http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/08/g...-computer.html

  23. #23
    EMBA Member
    Reputation: SlimL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    495
    Thanks Nate for the time you take to look at this stuff and help us get answers to our questions. I for one really appreciate it. Like PHeller I am using my GPSmap60 for trail mapping. There is a local trail of mine that hasn't had an accurate map for it in a long time and that is what I am doing. Maybe if it turns into something really fun I might upgrade and then again maybe not. But thanks again for helping out. Slim

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    18
    I've been using the Edge Touring device for several months now with no issues whatsoever. Works great on both mountain and road...

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    35
    Now that I've had a bit of time to cool my jets, I'll post this here for your review:

    https://forums.garmin.com/showthread...-disappointing

    To be fair, I'll also link to the Garmin Touring forum, so you can see all the threads, not just the negative one I picked out:

    https://forums.garmin.com/forumdispl...8-Edge-Touring

    My experience has been that the Garmin Touring Edge provides very poor routing solutions. It failed to generate a round between towns that require a bridge crossing, with three bridges available to cars, and two available to cyclists.

    A snippet from the forum:

    "As I think most of us have gathered by now, but the mapping on the SD card is orientated to sending you down cycle tracks and cycle lanes, no matter how you have it set. So, I was wondering could you maybe replace the OE SD card and replace it with a SD card with City Navigator on it instead would that cure the issue?"

    There was one single time when it did generate a route from St Pete to Tampa... it used the Pinellas trial to take me north (instead of east across the gandy bridge) and was about 200% farther than I needed to go. It took me north of the city I was in, then east above the city I wanted to go to, and then back down into and through the city, to it's southern tip where the bridge connects on the eastern side. I tried this in multiple planning modes (touring cyclist, cyclist, etc) and 'distance' 'time' etc..

    On multiple screens the device failed to generate any route, using both hard physical addresses, and the map view's GPS location tool. The failure occurred in both 'map view' and in the routing view (to/from address screen). One of these failures provided an error, one simply stopped routing and returned to the previous screen.

    If I stayed within my own town, or did not try to cross any bridges, the device did create a route. This is of course ineffective for me, as I would not want to rely on a device with such strong shortcomings.

    I have returned my device, but I truly hope that this experience is isolated and that you all find the best of luck with your devices. For $250, it may be worth the price to use as a Speed / GPS tools so you can map your average days travel and know where you are on long tours. for everyday 'I want to get somewhere' I would simply pull out a map.

    Regardless of my disagreement with NateHawk's opinions, I have taken his advice and checked the forums and have come to the same conclusions: This device is a poor route planner for on the fly directions.

    The tech on the phone when I requested my RMA simply stated the device was mostly used by Europeans, though I have no idea what the relevance of this statement is, as I was returning a USA mapped device.

  26. #26
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    18,551
    Okay, now we're getting somewhere solid.

    I was never discounting that you had any problems, but since earlier you didn't put much effort into finding the source of those problems, I was discounting your conclusions. I still don't think the device itself is the problem. The problem is with the underlying map data. It seems to have problems when bridges are involved.

    I wonder if there is a mechanism to update the maps on the device.

    Since this device uses OSM maps, there is always an opportunity for the end user to improve OSM maps. The only question I have is whether Garmin has a system in place to update those maps.

    I'm not going to say this is an "easy" solution, but it may be a viable one for some. How viable depends on whether your area has people active in improving the openstreetmaps data.

    I see where the Garmin employee was coming from. Relatively few American cyclists do cycle touring as Europeans do, and parts of Europe have outstanding cycle track networks upon which you can actually navigate. American cycle touring tends to be primarily restricted to roads, or a single linear rail trail that doesn't exactly need directions. I think that's probably where the Garmin employee was coming from.

    Garmin has been playing around with new routing capability and I have posted here about my doubts with regards to its effectiveness related to mountain biking. In particular, I have my doubts about Garmin's ability to navigate riders on mountain bike trails beyond the current "download a previous GPS track and follow it" method. Garmin is trying to include actual trails in its topo maps product, and make them routable based on user group. I think there's no way they'll be able to get enough ACCURATE coverage to make this remotely useable everywhere.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ssamplin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    65

    Touring Plus headache city

    Also frustrated with my Touring Plus. The routing is killing me. All I want to do is make a course from a prior ride or downloaded file. sounds easy enough right? Everything is smooth sailing until the course loads to 99% and then says 'calculation error' on most attempts. So I cant get actual navigation from it like I was hoping. Still shows the course on the map so I can follow but the navigation is dead. i could see a file being corrupt or something from the web. but not to be able to do this function within the unit is just ain't right. I called them and they had same issue but could offer no solution... HELP ME GARMIN!

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    35
    Well, as the god(s) have it, the unit was returned to me for some reason, instead of being delivered to Garmin for RMA.

    I'm on the fence about what I'm going to do.

    On one hand, I like the idea that my speed, distance, and direction are all set by GPS, and with a GPS enabled unit, I'm not going going to get to that level below the $200 price point anyway, so for $300 I'm trying to find a $100 value in this device outside the telemetry data it provides.

    I do like the fact that I can plug in pre-designed routes. I do NOT like that I can't do it via bluetooth, but for me this isn't a deal breaker.

    I find the routing to be really bad, and I simply don't know how else do say that.

    I would very much like to believe that I can have an impact on US-based cycling maps by putting some effort into the open source maps, like updating dangerous streets in my city, etc, but I just don't know how effective this will be, but I'm willing to try.

    How often are the maps updated? Can I update the manually after I make changes to the core OSM myself?

    I am concerned that if this unit doesn't handle bridges in my own city, what happens when I'm out of town and actually relying on this unit for navigation and it takes me 50+ miles off-course like it did here? This makes me feel like I shouldn't be using it for ad-hoc navigation, which NateHawk pointed out (unrealistic expectations).

    So... is the telemetry data (speed, distance, direction, elevation, barometric) + pre-defined routes + "where the hell am I on a map" information that I'm willing to pay $300 for, regardless of where in the USA I am? ... I might be inclined to say yes, if it weren't for the fact that a cell phone + verizon will do that just about anywhere, too. Not a complete tit for tat comparison, but it's close enough to warrant the question.

    I think I'm going to keep the device, but only because I want to know my speed/distance and where I am. I will not attempt to use the routing except in an emergency situation where no other resources are available.

    I will also pray to the god(s) that OSM can be updated with relevant information and somehow in the future the routing will become useful.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    35
    ** UPDATE **

    How to download free maps to your Garmin Edge 705/800/810 | DC Rainmaker

    Please visit that site.

    If you have this device, you need to understand that the Garmin Touring Edge uses OpenStreetMaps.

    These maps have ABSOLUTELY NOT been optimized for bicycling.

    Please register with openstreetmaps.org and start updating your city with routes that are known-safe and bicycle friendly.

    A few weeks later, they will be available on the above linked website (Free worldwide Garmin maps from OpenStreetMap)

    Once you're there, you can generate new maps for your Garmin and update the device with maps that don't suck quite as much.

    This is an opportunity for you to support and build your community :-)
    Last edited by Ecaz; 03-24-2014 at 08:50 AM.

  30. #30
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    18,551
    To be honest, the Garmin is a touch more reliable than the phone, especially if you're talking about mtb environments and remote country roads where cell reception can be spotty at best.

    Your phone requires a data connection to download maps. It will provide a location, but you will get a blank map if you leave cell reception long enough that you move off of the downloaded map tiles. Some apps can pre-load maps so you can turn the cell radio off, but they may not have exactly the functionality you want. No single phone app has all the functionality of a dedicated GPS.

    No dedicated GPS can be sent data from a phone or tablet via bluetooth. Garmin uses ANT+ for data transfers on some models, but I think that it only works between compatible Garmin devices. It won't work with phones that have ANT+ capability. the Edge 510 and 810 have bluetooth compatibility, but IIRC, they cannot receive files/routes that way. The protocol is primarily used to send data from the GPS, and the GPS only receives limited information from the phone. That's not to say that such capability will not be added at some point, but don't hold your breath.

    The absolute cheapest device that will do most of the things an Edge Touring Plus can do would be an etrex 20. But the interface is not nearly as friendly, and it will be bigger due to the fact that it uses AA batteries instead of a rechargeable lithium one. Garmin prices it at $200, and Amazon has it for $165 right now. The Edge form factor is a bit simpler to use on the bike. Is that worth an extra $100-$140? Only you can decide that.

    Currently, only three european cities are 'fully updated' for cycling.
    I'm curious where you learned this? And what does "fully updated" mean in this context? OSM maps that I've used in parts of the US have been pretty good. Limited in some respects, but illustrating more bike facilities more accurately than Google does, at least.

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    35
    I got this information from a discussion with the owner of Free worldwide Garmin maps from OpenStreetMap

    And I own you an apology, the information was specific to addresses, not cycling.

    I have edited my comments to remove this misleading information.

  32. #32
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    18,551
    Oh addresses. Yeah I get that having used them in the past. Can be annoying. But even maps that have addresses can be a royal pain in the ass. Formatting of the road name can make a HUGE difference in whether you find an address or not on Garmins. Garmin devices cannot deal with a slight misspelling at all. Add that to the fact that some roads have several names and can have any number of abbreviations or not in the database and finding a place even when you have an address can really suck

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    19
    Anyone try using the Topo Garmin maps on the Edge Touring?

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pulser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    1,785
    I am really thinking about the touring plus. I have had an edge 200 for 2 years now and its all the info I need. But when I go ride some place new maps would be really nice and I like that it has hart rate too. Its the one thing my 200 doesn't have that I would like. Has anyone loaded trail maps on to one yet? I looked on Garmin Connect and the trail system up in Winter Park Co is on there but no names. I'm guessing with the GPS showing me where I am in relation to roads and stuff I could find my way on a paper map.

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    19
    Any updates on the Edge Touring? I would be happy just to use it to display tops. Not sure it can just do that.

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    35
    I've just moved to a new city, and need to learn the local routes. Once I learn the cycling safe roads, I'm going to start updating my city on OpenStreeMaps to get better routing.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    190
    I live in the UK and have recently purchased a Garmin Edge Touring. Only use it on my road bike as I am very familiar with all my local off road trails.

    Have used it for around 10 rides now and it seems to work flawlessly, the only niggle I have is when you ask it to create a route it doesn't always offer the 3 routes as it is advertised to do.

    Apart from that I am very happy with the purchase.

  38. #38
    Chronic Underachiever
    Reputation: MauricioB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    569
    I purchased a Touring Plus in July, and for those thinking of getting one, my advice would be to run the other way without looking back.

    The auto-routing feature is absolutely not to be trusted. It has absolutely no problem, and in fact, insists on, routing users onto what I would consider the least suitable roads for bicycling. My best guess is that the routing algorithm is borrowed from motor vehicle applications and does not take the suitability of facilities into account. Either that or it's trying to kill me.

    Even with pre-defined routes, it can't find its way back if you deviate even just a little bit. Sometimes re-loading the route in the middle of your ride helps, but usually not. I've taken to just turning off the turn-by-turn function and follow the breadcrumbs as best I can.

    Mountain biking? This thing can't even get roads right, so my answer to that would be "no."

    I've never gotten the battery to last more than 10 hours even with minimal backlighting. 8 has been more common. Not great for a device rated at 17 hours.

    The heart rate monitor has no alarm. Garmin claims that you would need to get an 810 for that functionality, but every single heart rate device I've ever owned has had an alarm. Every. Single. One.

    Finally, I've had the device spontaneously power off on several occasions. Garmin blames corrupt files, but I'm not convinced.

    I consider what I have to be a lemon and regret purchasing it.

  39. #39
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    18,551
    a few points:

    This is not a fitness device. If you look at specs, you will see that it doesn't offer alarms. You're lucky it records and displays HR at all. This is either on you for not paying attention to specs, or possibly on the salesperson that convinced you to buy it and couldn't adequately describe specs. That's not uncommon. At the shop where I work, my coworkers try to refer as many people interested in GPSes to me.

    The routing is a neat idea, but it's heavily reliant on the basemaps for bike friendliness. This isn't necessarily Garmin's fault. It's entirely possible that nobody has supplied bike friendliness information to OSM for your area. There are other errors in the OSM data that affect routing. It's not hard to submit edits to fix that stuff, but if few people in your area are active in the OSM community, there are likely to be a LOT of edits. The same thing applies to mountain biking trails. If nobody submits them to OSM, they won't be there, and they won't be routable. IIRC, there was some information out there when this device first came out that the first areas with "complete" coverage were in Europe (basically, the routing would work best in those areas) and that getting the basemap up to snuff would come later for other areas.

    Expecting routing to be useful for mountain biking is ludicrous, however. It's SO HEAVILY reliant on the basemap data, and it's hard enough to find basemap data with a good supply of mtb trails that it's a feature you might as well ignore on ANY GPS. OSM probably has the best collection of mtb trails for any basemap, anyway. If they're there, great. If not, don't flip out about it. Not Garmin's fault. OSM is not Garmin's data. If you want mtb trail data, you're going to have to do some legwork of your own and get it on your GPS yourself. These things are not something you can just push the power button and expect it to do everything. They're made for you to be able to curate what you load on them to suit your needs.

    For the touchscreen devices to reach maximum battery life, you usually have to allow the screen to time out/go blank, in addition to minimal or no backlighting. My experience with my Oregon 450 is that the battery life estimates apply to the most conservative use scenarios.

    As for the spontaneous power off "feature", that is something Garmin should address. If it's a corrupt file problem, what's causing the corrupt files? That needs to be dealt with. Have you checked for firmware updates? Garmin DOES address some problems by issuing firmware updates. Unfortunately, they don't or can't seem to fix every problem with all of their devices. Some are minor issues, but some seem to be hardware related so they can really only fix them through a new device release.

  40. #40
    Chronic Underachiever
    Reputation: MauricioB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    569
    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    This is not a fitness device. If you look at specs, you will see that it doesn't offer alarms. You're lucky it records and displays HR at all. This is either on you for not paying attention to specs, or possibly on the salesperson that convinced you to buy it and couldn't adequately describe specs. That's not uncommon. At the shop where I work, my coworkers try to refer as many people interested in GPSes to me.
    First, begging your pardon, but please cite exactly in the specs where the Touring Plus says there is no HR alarm. I've gone back and looked for, but cannot find, any spec to that effect.

    Also, with due respect, I am not "lucky" that it has HR capability. That's exactly the sole difference between the regular Touring and the Plus, for which I paid $50 more (expecting, as is the custom with HR devices, that it would have an alarm.) The additional cost did not include the strap, but only the additional hardware/firmware in the GPS unit.

    Which leads me to ask, if this is not a fitness device (as Garmin themselves claim), then why offer a version with a (hobbled) heart rate monitor at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    The routing is a neat idea, but it's heavily reliant on the basemaps for bike friendliness. This isn't necessarily Garmin's fault. It's entirely possible that nobody has supplied bike friendliness information to OSM for your area. There are other errors in the OSM data that affect routing. It's not hard to submit edits to fix that stuff, but if few people in your area are active in the OSM community, there are likely to be a LOT of edits. The same thing applies to mountain biking trails. If nobody submits them to OSM, they won't be there, and they won't be routable. IIRC, there was some information out there when this device first came out that the first areas with "complete" coverage were in Europe (basically, the routing would work best in those areas) and that getting the basemap up to snuff would come later for other areas.
    There are base maps and there are routing algorithms, which happen to be two different things. I work with OSM professionally and know that bike features are relatively good in my area and that the Garmin is perfectly happy to ignore them when calculating routes. This wouldn't have been a deal breaker for me since I prefer to create my own routes, but I have tested it, and it doesn't really work.

    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    For the touchscreen devices to reach maximum battery life, you usually have to allow the screen to time out/go blank, in addition to minimal or no backlighting. My experience with my Oregon 450 is that the battery life estimates apply to the most conservative use scenarios.
    Both brightness and interval are set to the minimum. It also doesn't seem to matter whether I'm conservative with recalculations or scrolling around on the map. Where my Edge 500 lives up to its claimed battery life, the Touring Plus fails consistently.

    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    As for the spontaneous power off "feature", that is something Garmin should address. If it's a corrupt file problem, what's causing the corrupt files? That needs to be dealt with. Have you checked for firmware updates? Garmin DOES address some problems by issuing firmware updates. Unfortunately, they don't or can't seem to fix every problem with all of their devices. Some are minor issues, but some seem to be hardware related so they can really only fix them through a new device release.
    The firmware was then, as it is now, up-to-date. Garmin, unfortunately, has not been very good about responding to my request for service. Unusual for them and disappointing. Even good companies produce a stinker product occasionally, and it seems like this might be a stinker.

  41. #41
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    18,551
    Quote Originally Posted by MauricioB View Post
    First, begging your pardon, but please cite exactly in the specs where the Touring Plus says there is no HR alarm. I've gone back and looked for, but cannot find, any spec to that effect.

    Also, with due respect, I am not "lucky" that it has HR capability. That's exactly the sole difference between the regular Touring and the Plus, for which I paid $50 more (expecting, as is the custom with HR devices, that it would have an alarm.) The additional cost did not include the strap, but only the additional hardware/firmware in the GPS unit.

    Which leads me to ask, if this is not a fitness device (as Garmin themselves claim), then why offer a version with a (hobbled) heart rate monitor at all?



    There are base maps and there are routing algorithms, which happen to be two different things. I work with OSM professionally and know that bike features are relatively good in my area and that the Garmin is perfectly happy to ignore them when calculating routes. This wouldn't have been a deal breaker for me since I prefer to create my own routes, but I have tested it, and it doesn't really work.



    Both brightness and interval are set to the minimum. It also doesn't seem to matter whether I'm conservative with recalculations or scrolling around on the map. Where my Edge 500 lives up to its claimed battery life, the Touring Plus fails consistently.



    The firmware was then, as it is now, up-to-date. Garmin, unfortunately, has not been very good about responding to my request for service. Unusual for them and disappointing. Even good companies produce a stinker product occasionally, and it seems like this might be a stinker.
    Garmin Edge Touring-510vstouringplus.png

    Looks to me like that specifically says that the Touring Plus lacks many training features that you may find on the 510. The only place alerts are specified is with time/distance but based on that, I would not assume that the Touring Plus lacks THOSE alerts but then HAS HR alerts. This is a casual use device. You would be surprised how many people I talk to who don't care at all about alerts, but simply want to see/record their HR. And a correction: HR capability is NOT the only difference between touring and touring plus models. The ANT+ protocol is entirely missing from the Touring model, but the Touring Plus uses ANT+ for more than HR. I would say the primary function of ANT+ on this model would be the OTHER use advertised - e-bike/LEV connectivity. Where the head unit will give you reports on power consumption and remaining battery, etc. The Touring Plus also will report temp and has a barometric altimeter. That whole e-bike thing really suggests to me that this device is more heavily intended for the European market, where e-bikes are more popular/common. HR on this device seems to me like an afterthought. Something that didn't take much extra code-writing to enable. It used to be that the barometric altimeter sensor alone meant a $50 price bump between models. But here we have that sensor, a temp sensor, and an ANT+ radio all included for $50. Seems reasonable to me. You want fitness alerts? Get a fitness model. It sounds to me like you did your own product research and made the decision on your own. Blame yourself for choosing the wrong model for your needs. Cut your losses, sell it, and get one that does what you need.

    So have you looked at the BASE data in OSM? Have you seen not only bike friendliness facilities, but how intersections are built and connections at bridges are done? I recall complaints about the Touring models routing poorly in San Francisco a few years ago, for example, because the bike facilities didn't "connect" across some of the bridges in the OSM data, so the device would refuse to route people across them. Haven't heard that complaint for awhile, but it makes me wonder if it's been fixed. These are the kinds of errors that can really mess up routing, and they'll be all but invisible to most who don't understand GIS.

    Also note that I didn't say that the basemap was the ONLY problem. I said it's a major one, and one that Garmin doesn't necessarily control. MAYBE the routing algorithms need work, but how are we going to know if it's the routing algorithms unless we know that the algorithms are using data that's free of errors? Basemap errors are a KNOWN issue in OSM, so until someone proves otherwise, it's going to be my first ruleout. I have personally submitted error fixes to OSM, so I understand the kinds of errors that exist there. I have seen some similar errors on Google Maps, but some of my proposed fixes have been rejected by Google's people because they're idiots...or something.

    Interval for what? The backlight? Do you let the device go into power save mode where the screen turns off completely? Are you using the HRM?

  42. #42
    Yasmine A.
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    138
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    In particular, I have my doubts about Garmin's ability to navigate riders on mountain bike trails beyond the current "download a previous GPS track and follow it" method. Garmin is trying to include actual trails in its topo maps product, and make them routable based on user group.
    Hi I have been thinking about getting the Garmin Touring specifically for following preset GPS tracks. Wouldnt the Garmin touring still offer better visuals and a clearer map than the Edge 500?

    Noting that I live in Israel and not sure Garmin will support MTB trails for here

  43. #43
    since 4/10/2009
    Reputation: Harold's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    18,551
    Yes the Edge Touring will show better visuals. Make sure you know which features the Touring models lack compared to the Edge 500 because there are several.

Similar Threads

  1. Garmin Edge 200
    By Major Glory in forum GPS, HRM and Bike Computer
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 10-09-2012, 05:43 PM
  2. Garmin Edge 200 or Edge 500?
    By michael1 in forum GPS, HRM and Bike Computer
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 03-14-2012, 02:40 PM
  3. Garmin Edge 800
    By Phillbo in forum Arizona
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-07-2012, 07:13 PM
  4. Garmin EDGE 500 vs. EDGE 705
    By dadtorbn in forum GPS, HRM and Bike Computer
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 11-05-2011, 11:03 AM
  5. Garmin Edge 500 vs. 800
    By chuckie33 in forum GPS, HRM and Bike Computer
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 04-12-2011, 05:00 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •