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  1. #1
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    Garmin 705-not ready from prime time?

    Today I turned my the 705. It flashed a message--Route calculation fault. After that, all stored data and settings were gone. I think the maps I downloaded are still there.

    Also, the elevation readings are suspect. I ordinarily measure altitude with my Polar watch, which has a temperature compensated barometric altimeter. On today's ride, the Polar showed 2250 feet of climing. The 705 showed 1500 feet of climing. On a previous ride, the 705 showed starting and ending altitudes that were several hundred feet off. The ride was a loop. The first and final 4 miles were the same. If you look at the attached image, you can see this is not the case as far the 705 was concerned.

    Has anyone else noticed these issues?

  2. #2
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    Not ready from price time, elevation graph

    This did not attach. I will try again.
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  3. #3
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    Check for software updates on the 705 at Garmin's website.

    If the 705 doesn't have a barometric altimeter, its accuracy won't be that great.
    To the troll mobile, away...

  4. #4
    Mark
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    My 705 can be from 0 to 50 feet off in the start/finish for a loop.
    Of course any barometric altimeter is affected by weather change so that could explain it...
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    Last edited by hoovermd; 04-10-2008 at 06:09 AM.
    ===============

    Mark

  5. #5
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    In general every unit garmin comes out with new needs firmware tweaks. The colorado unit right now is a cluster at best. Garmin seems to like to use early owners of their gps units as guinea pigs to replace actually doing adequate product testing. On the plus side they have very good customer service and are happy to replace units if needed.

    I have had issues with my 705 but I have not noticed the issue you mention, I should check my history though I have a couple rides that are loops I could check starting and ending elevations on. For what it's worth, no altimeter really works that well, the barometric corrected ones work the best, if you calibrate them, and use them in constant weather conditions for short times, if you have a weather front come through they get all messed up. The GPS altitude models like the 705 etc. work really well in some places the gps signal altitude is great, and in others it's horrible. However it should at least be consistent on it's error, in that you should be getting similar starting and ending elevations.

    I've been having problems getting it to bring in a course or track ("saved ride") properly. It brings in part of the track but not the whole thing, it will magically leave out parts of a track and just connect them with a strait line. I've also had the unit freeze up several times trying to navigate a course, and I've noticed that the little round enter button appears to activate itself frequently on rough rides. Reviews at REI have also noted this freezing problem, but some others have not had the issue either.

    You might try saving all your data off the unit, profiles and such, and then doing a unit reset (hold mode button while powering up the unit) then do a software re-install of the most current release.

    I just looked at a couple of my loop rides and you are right, I have serious variation in my start/finish elevations, on an 8 mile loop my start and finish elevation off the 705 is off by 600' in the same start/stop position on the map. The starting elevation is very close to what is correct by topo maps, the ending elevation is way off, and this is on two track points that are not separated by more than 20'. I believe on my unit this may be tied to the unit freezing up, because there are big instant elevation drops at two points in the ride where there also is little data on the course history for a long section, I bet it's where the unit froze up and then the elevation got messed up upon restart.

    Looking at another one of my road ride loops that one appears to be within 10' of it's start and stop elevations, showing a much more accurate profile. However I have not been following courses on the road bike so I have not had it lock up there. Looking at my other rides where the unit was not navigating a course and did not lock up starting and stopping elevations seems very close on both the mountain and road bike.

    Very interesting I will have to keep an eye on this. Did your unit have any lock ups on this ride? I ask because esp. towards the end of the ride it shows a super sharp descent, and then very flat riding for the rest of the ride, can't read the elevation numbers on the graph to see the vertical exaggeration.

    Another thing you might do to see which is correct is make a course from this ride, convert it to a gpx file and bring it into mapsource as a track, then look at the profile of the track and it should show you the topographically calculated elevation profile, and see how it stacks up to the one the edge measured. Also compare the elevation profile to the one your polar recorded to see if there are any big profile differences big drops that should not be there, or if it's just little differences in the whole ride.

  6. #6
    Mark
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    The courses I've downloaded from Geoladders seem to work well.
    I've only done 2 of them tho...
    ===============

    Mark

  7. #7
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    Today's ride

    Today the 705 was within 10% of the Polar for climbing. The climbing plot looked reasonable.

    I did a reset at the end, which wrote the ride to internal memory. I also downloaded the history file and looked at it using TopoFusion. The downloaded route was very accurate. It bore little resemblance to the route displayed on the 705. The 705 ignored many points and connected some to form a completely inaccurate plot! I do not see how this GPS can be used to navigate a previously recorded track. This is something every Garmin GPS I have owned could do easily.

    I have never seen a Garmin GPS produce errors of this magnitude.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by testtech
    Today the 705 was within 10% of the Polar for climbing. The climbing plot looked reasonable.

    I did a reset at the end, which wrote the ride to internal memory. I also downloaded the history file and looked at it using TopoFusion. The downloaded route was very accurate. It bore little resemblance to the route displayed on the 705. The 705 ignored many points and connected some to form a completely inaccurate plot! I do not see how this GPS can be used to navigate a previously recorded track. This is something every Garmin GPS I have owned could do easily.

    I have never seen a Garmin GPS produce errors of this magnitude.
    My older Garmin eTrex has a memory saving function to reduce the number of plot points. (Reduced accuracy on the saved file, but you can record a longer file). I can't see why newer units would have this with all their memory, but it might be a hold over feature, or one to avoid clutter on displays. Check your manual. If it has this feature, and it's on, then this might be causing what you're seeing.
    To the troll mobile, away...

  9. #9
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    Yeah this will depend a bit on if you have it set to automatic or maximum points, however be aware my understanding the max setting can only record about 4 hours of riding then it starts overwriting data......the automatic setting evidentially can do about 12 hours. I believe the automatic setting uses changes in HR/course etc. to plot points, where the max is one point a second no matter what. You would thing with data cards and such you could get unlimited data as long as you have room on the card but not with the 705

    I rode another route today, and the unit did not lock up on me and has an accurate profile but I was not navigating a course. What I'm going to do tomorrow is ride the same route but set the unit to navigate the course from today's ride. If it still locks up on me doing that, it's going back to be replaced.

    At this point I'd say your only real option that you have not tried is unit replacement, I've heard enough complaints about 705 units that some of them must have issues but I've also heard enough guys using them with no issues, so it appears we got a couple of bad ones.

  10. #10
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Dunno if this has anything to do with it but I always reset my unit right before the ride and typically download the ride at the end of the day...


    Apparently I've got one of the more reliable units
    ===============

    Mark

  11. #11
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    Contrary to a couple of the above statements the 705 DOES have a Barometric correction altimeter. I've had mine on about 5 or 6 rides and the profiles are very similar to my eTrex Vista C and 305.

  12. #12
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    16383 track point capacity. The route I did today at 1300 points.

    I will be interested in how following a downloaded GPX track or route works. I have not tried it yet.

    Mine has not frozen during use. It had the one failure noted in my original post.

    By the way, has anyone tried the built in climbing display. In the Vista HCx, you can zoom in or out. You can look at an entire route profile or a portion. The pointer provides a cursor so you can scroll through the profile. The 705 manual does not mention this function. However, it appears you can zoom but not scroll. I have not found a way to profile an entire ride or find a portion of the ride.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by testtech
    By the way, has anyone tried the built in climbing display. In the Vista HCx, you can zoom in or out. You can look at an entire route profile or a portion. The pointer provides a cursor so you can scroll through the profile. The 705 manual does not mention this function. However, it appears you can zoom but not scroll. I have not found a way to profile an entire ride or find a portion of the ride.

    Unfortunately the 705 does not have the cursor function of the Vista to scroll or see info about certain areas on the profile. Although you can change the grid increments (miles/feet) with the click stick, to look at an overall profile of the ride if you like.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by testtech
    16383 track point capacity. The route I did today at 1300 points.

    I will be interested in how following a downloaded GPX track or route works. I have not tried it yet.

    Mine has not frozen during use. It had the one failure noted in my original post.

    By the way, has anyone tried the built in climbing display. In the Vista HCx, you can zoom in or out. You can look at an entire route profile or a portion. The pointer provides a cursor so you can scroll through the profile. The 705 manual does not mention this function. However, it appears you can zoom but not scroll. I have not found a way to profile an entire ride or find a portion of the ride.

    Dunno where you are from, but I followed this route last week. 'Twas perfect:
    (I downloaded the course)

    http://www.geoladders.com/show_route.php?route=1468
    ===============

    Mark

  15. #15
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    I've got a 705 and i've been really pleased with it.

    Not had any locking up issues and the joystick isn't 'self activating' over bumps. Gets a GPS setting very easily too. Navigated a 50 mile 4 hour ride today using a downloaded GPX route with no issues. the Route seemed to be displayed ok too, not that the screens really big enough to display the whole thing in any detail.

    Not tested the accuracy of the altitude but i wouldn't expect it to be 100% anyway. I usually import to Memory Map which has uses its own heights for any given route .

  16. #16
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    More bad news

    I am glad the 705 is working well for some.

    I took a track created last year by a Garmin HcX. I reduced it to 498 points and moved it onto the 705. The track created on the GPS screen is portions of the original and includes a number of lines that are not on the original track.

    I then loaded the same track into a Vista HCx. It displays properly on the HCx.

    I tried loading the track using MapSource. Same incorrect display.

    I downloaded some other tracks. The simple ones appear to work. The complex ones do not.

    The list of available tracks has clear errors on it (names of tracks that do not exist. I am going to try a reset.

  17. #17
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    Yeah I found that as well, I even tried some tracks as low as 200 points with the same issues, so far my unit will display courses correctly, but locks up when following them, and will not display tracks correctly, they are either missing sections, or there are sections in the middle of the track that are connected by long strait sections with no track data (which is why I thought maybe the track was too many points, but reducing them did not help).

    As you said I tried the same track on my legend hcx and it worked fine.

    Here is another interesting one......so far it appears you cannot reset certain personal data on the unit. For example even with a unit reset and clicking yes to "reset all profile data" it still keeps your HR info, bike info, etc. those things do not get reset.

    The problem I ran into with this was I moved a speed/cadence sensor from one bike to another after setting up it's profile. For example i had my road, mtn, and bike 3, for awhile I had only one sensor so I'd move it between the road and mtn. So both of their profiles were set up with the same sensor. Once I got a second sensor I tried to reset the road bike profile to use the second sensor....it won't I get a "multiple sensors" error. If I try to go to settings and click search for sensor it see's the new cadence sensor, but the speed stops working (which is really weird since speed comes from the gps). Then I have to reset the unit and I'm back to having no cadence, but speed.

    My temp fix was to set up bike 3 as my road bike with the new sensor and rename my old road bike back to bike 1. However that profile is useless since it's now locked to one sensor on the mtn bike. It seems there is no way to reset the bike profiles. I tried editing the profile, with no luck, and also doing a reset on the sensor itself and then having the unit search for it.

    In addition depending on how you load your maps I've had problems being able to unselect them. For example if I had the streets and trips preloaded card in the unit and loaded topo maps on it, I could unselect the topo maps so I just had city nav, but not the other way around I could not force the unit to let me see just the topo data, and since the city nav take priority over the topo data, I could not see my topo data at all. Now if I took the city nav card out, and then put topo data on, and then put the city nav card in, I could deselect the city nav map to see my topo data.

    Quite the mess. It appears some units are working great, but some have issues for sure.

  18. #18
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    This may or may not be any help; these are the resets for the Edge 305. Maybe something you have not tried, maybe you have. I know they work on my 305; I'm letting you guys work out the glitches in the 705 before I consider one.

    Power + Lap = hardware (10 sec)
    Mode + Lap = software (10 sec)
    Lap + Start/Stop = data purge (10 sec)
    CCCMB web - Facebook
    SLO trail maps - conditions

    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

  19. #19
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    Resets

    None of those resets seem to do anything.

  20. #20
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    The only resets I've found work on the 705 is the mode and lap button at the same time to do a soft reset no data loss, and the mode + power button to do a hard reset that "purges" data but not profiles etc. even though the screen says it does.

  21. #21
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    Today's Ride Results

    I did a 25 mile ride today using both existing and manually created tracks (using TopoFusion). The existing tracks produced several erroneous multiple track lines on the GPS screen. The manually created tracks worked fine.

    On any track portions where the track was reproduced accurately, the GPS worked well-very legible and accurate.

    Tomorrow I will call Garmin and see what they have to say about all of this.

  22. #22
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    I exchanged my unit today at REI, and while i have not rode it yet I have already noticed some differences from my first unit (SN ~ 1920000xx, not sure if that places it in the first 100 units or not) In that the round enter button at least feels to have a much firmer activation so hopefully that should eliminate the "magic button" activating itself on rough rides. The new unit is about 5000 units older by the SN.

    In addition, doing a reset on the unit (lap+mode) now resets all user info, including profile info (HR, Bikes etc) and allows for clearing which sensors are "attached" to which profile. I am also now able to select and unselect either the topo or city nav maps so that I can choose which to display, or none.

    So it would appear they have already addressed some issues from early units outside of the firmware update. The real test will be if it will follow courses without locking up and if downloaded tracks are handled, displayed, and navigated correctly. Hopefully they are, because outside of those problems the unit is impressive, of course it should be for the price.

  23. #23
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    Mine works fine except that it switches itself off after about 3 hours and just before it changes maps (Germany Topo). First time it did it I switched it back on and got straight lines thereafter. This week I switched it back on (same place) and started 'lap' again and when I downloaded got just one lap with all the data. So its just the inconvenience of it switching off in the middle of a long ride. I put the maps on the data card to see if it helped in between rides but no. Any ideas guys?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddM
    I exchanged my unit today at REI, and while i have not rode it yet I have already noticed some differences from my first unit (SN ~ 1920000xx, not sure if that places it in the first 100 units or not) In that the round enter button at least feels to have a much firmer activation so hopefully that should eliminate the "magic button" activating itself on rough rides. The new unit is about 5000 units older by the SN.

    In addition, doing a reset on the unit (lap+mode) now resets all user info, including profile info (HR, Bikes etc) and allows for clearing which sensors are "attached" to which profile. I am also now able to select and unselect either the topo or city nav maps so that I can choose which to display, or none.

    So it would appear they have already addressed some issues from early units outside of the firmware update. The real test will be if it will follow courses without locking up and if downloaded tracks are handled, displayed, and navigated correctly. Hopefully they are, because outside of those problems the unit is impressive, of course it should be for the price.
    Todd: Please report back on the track visibility issue. It is the achilles heel of this unit, and I am considering returning it as a result, since it basically renders the mapping functions useless.

    Mine has spontaneously rebooted a couple times, also.

    I'm kinda pissed off that there hasn't been another firmware update yet, knowing how many issues are out there. I suspect that, quite simply, Garmin now has WAY too many product variations (look how many Nuvis there are) and their firmware/software group just can't keep up with the issues. Tech support has gone way downhill (LOOOONG wait times on the phone, days to get an e-mail response). I'm a big Garmin fan and don't like the trends I see...I hope it gets resolved soon.

  25. #25
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    The track line thickness is the same as far as I can see. I have not had time to test downloading tracks to the unit or navigating them to see if that issue has been addressed.

    Right now garmin has a much bigger problem than the edge in the Colorado, in fact my understanding is that unit has so many issues that they are not shipping anymore until hardware problems are addressed. My guess is right now that is their focus as no doubt it's a much larger market share than the edge. Also the edge has been hard to get ahold of, so there are less units out there, and probably less people complaining. My local REI has only gotten 3-4 705 units, and mine is the only one they had problems with, but they have had a lot of colorado units come back.

    As to the firmware, not sure what is going on there, in the past when a new unit came out firmware updates were frequent. With the colorado it has been nearly 2 months since the last update, so I would suspect either garmin is super busy, or they are trying to address more issues with each firmware update. It may also be they are trying to get better firmware updates, in the past the frequent firmware updates did not always work very well and issued had to be fixed multiple times.

    I also am concerned about the trend I've seen with customer support at garmin, in the past getting ahold of them by phone or email has been easy, with prompt responses. Lately I've seen it be days pushing a week or more for email responses.

    The most concerning trend I've seen is how the new garmin units being released have more and more problems and early customers are flat out being used as a guinea pigs to do garmins product testing for free. I realize that once a product hits the market in a large amount people are using it in many different ways and in different places etc. and certain specific bugs will be found that even extensive product testing will not find.

    However, things like the track line being too narrow to see, or the unit locking up while following tracks that several users have reported, tracks not getting uploaded or displayed on the unit correctly, or button activation on rough trails, are all things that even minor product testing should catch.

    Same was true of the colorado, runtimes are horrible, the battery door leaks, the screen is horrible to see in many light conditions because the backlight is way too dim, it has no waypoint averaging, no way to reverse a track (IE you can't hike in somewhere and have the unit navigate you back out), units shutting themselves off, not keep correct time, etc. Issues like that should have never got by even poor product testing.

    On the plus side, garmin still has been happy to replace units if problems arise, probably because doing that is much cheaper than actually doing enough product testing to ensure the unit is reasonably stable when it hits the market.

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