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  1. #1
    since 4/10/2009
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    Disappointed with Garmin Connect update

    I'm not sure all of the updates that GC implemented yesterday, but one of them is very disappointing to me.

    That would be the switch from Google Maps to Bing maps. Bing's selection of satellite imagery for my area is poorer quality than what Google offered. Not to mention there's no "terrain view" option for areas where the imagery is low quality.

  2. #2
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    Arggg! You're right! Terrain view is/was my favorite. Good "at a glance" idea of what kind of ride I'm looking at. The default view is pretty nearly worthless, at least for off road trips.

    Have to agree with you on the quality of the maps too, they are a definite step down here in Utah compared to what google offered.

    Trimble outdoors at least still has decent maps, and can be configured so the default view is terrain. (not that trimble is perfect either.)
    I'm looking forward to regretting this.......

  3. #3
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    true...Trimble does offer the MyTopo, even...which is a bit better than the terrain option, even though they have that, too. For most of my mtb rides, I use GMap4 to visualize them after the fact (which also offers both of those options).

    I've been using GC for awhile lately to track my running workouts with a Forerunner 205, and I think I'll be taking my workout data elsewhere. I spent some time today evaluating Training Peaks and the basic (free) option even looks quite attractive.

  4. #4
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    Upset

    What GARBAGE. Garmin going with Bling instead of google ......... anyone thinking of buying a Garmin product, take heed on this issue.

    No Terrain view in Bling.

    Not sure what they are thinking with treating thier customers with this horrible downgrade in maps.

    Idiotic.

  5. #5
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    I just left a comment on the Garmin blog page explaining that unless they implement TOPO map views via BING maps I will no longer be using their crappy website.

  6. #6
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    Forgot to add link to www.mtbguru.com

    I like this website for uploading GPS. Plenty of map views on MTBGURU.com

  7. #7
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    FACEBOOK SITE CREATED IN PROTEST:

    FaceBook group "Garmin Connect users who want Google Maps back!"

  8. #8
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    meh, training peaks is not for me. very detailed, but I do not like their activity upload interface.

    playing with sporttracks again...

  9. #9
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    i just joined this one..... looks pretty good...

    http://ridewithgps.com/

  10. #10
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    Yeah, lots of love over at their forum: https://forums.garmin.com/showthread.php?t=13826

    They've posted to their blog with PR spin about it. Excitement and Microsoft used in the same sentence, without mentioning the cash money MS would have ponied up for the deal.

  11. #11
    trail rat
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    Yes, add me to the "oh chitlins" group. I will guess that they had to pay Google, doubt it was free, and M$ will pay them to use Bing.

    Anyone know if there is a cost involved in commercial use of Google maps?
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  12. #12
    since 4/10/2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Yes, add me to the "oh chitlins" group. I will guess that they had to pay Google, doubt it was free, and M$ will pay them to use Bing.

    Anyone know if there is a cost involved in commercial use of Google maps?
    The Google Maps API Premier does require the purchase of a license.

    But, the TOS of the regular javascript Maps API makes it appear as though Garmin Connect's use would not fall under a "commercial use" and would therefore be permitted to use the free regular maps API.

  13. #13
    trail rat
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk
    The Google Maps API Premier does require the purchase of a license.

    But, the TOS of the regular javascript Maps API makes it appear as though Garmin Connect's use would not fall under a "commercial use" and would therefore be permitted to use the free regular maps API.
    Ok, that makes sense and appears that GC could use Gmaps for free. Still, I bet M$ is paying them, trying to buy Bing into the market.

    I really only use GC for the sharing ability, all my real data analysis and mapping is done in TopoFusion and SportTracks.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Ok, that makes sense and appears that GC could use Gmaps for free. Still, I bet M$ is paying them, trying to buy Bing into the market.

    I really only use GC for the sharing ability, all my real data analysis and mapping is done in TopoFusion and SportTracks.
    I used it a lot to share my run workouts with my running coach, and if the maps are crap, half the reason for using it for that purpose is now gone.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadwrong666
    FACEBOOK SITE CREATED IN PROTEST:

    FaceBook group "Garmin Connect users who want Google Maps back!"

    Just joined. Trying to help convince Garmin that they've made a mistake. Now, off to decide what to use instead of Garmin Connect.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadwrong666
    No Terrain view in Bling.
    Wow, that's a big downgrade.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  17. #17
    govt kontrakt projkt mgr
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    I agree; pretty decent. Is there a way to change the default view of the map--I have to click on terrain every time. It needs weather--which Connect STILL does not seem to have. And the profile photo up loader is broken right now.
    Still a great effort for a bunch of college aged computer nerds.


    Quote Originally Posted by deadwrong666
    i just joined this one..... looks pretty good...

    http://ridewithgps.com/

  18. #18
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    This is such a dumb move on garmins part. I also despise companies like microsoft paying straight up $ just to get some market share, why not just spend the money in making bing maps a worth competitor to googles?

    Rant over.....

  19. #19
    zod
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    As someone stated above be sure to join the FaceBook group "Garmin Connect users who want Google Maps back!" I am one of the admins and we've been getting a constant flow of new members. If you're not on Garmin's forum go over there and b1tch to. I also started a thread there (username Livermush) with all the phone numbers for Garmin, call them and complain. I posted those numbers on the Facebook group page as well.

    I don't know that it will matter, Garmin and MSFT are already in bed together and I'm sure MSFT would have huge objections to Garmin allowing Google Maps as an option. Still we need to make sure they continue to see this move was a huge mistake.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySlowRdr
    I agree; pretty decent. Is there a way to change the default view of the map--I have to click on terrain every time. It needs weather--which Connect STILL does not seem to have. And the profile photo up loader is broken right now.
    Still a great effort for a bunch of college aged computer nerds.

    I recommend you send them (at ridegps) this feedback, they will respond within hours.

    I suggested a few things myself (ie different bike profiles for weight) and got a response quickly (they are working on it for the next version).

    Unlike Garmin who doesnt give a poo about thier customers........

    MAKE SURE YOU CALL GARMIN VIA PHONE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS BS SITUATION.

  21. #21
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    Someone did an extension for Chrome that changes maps back to Google while in GC. Via Facebook, https://chrome.google.com/extensions...mdphhpockpbldc

    Now if they could do it for FireFox.
    Last edited by slocaus; 11-24-2010 at 03:57 PM.
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  22. #22
    Big Gulps, Alright!
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    I sent them some feedback...

    The embedded Google maps application was much more useful than the current implementation. I have a Garmin Edge 305 that I use when cycling (typically 6-7 days a week). I love the Edge and Garmin Connect - together they work very well and up until now I've been totally satisfied. I'm primarily a mountain biker, and while Bing maps may be adequate for road riding, it does not compare to Google maps for offroad usage. The lack of a visual 'terrain' feature is disappointing and the overall look and feel is rather cheap. I liked it much better prior to the change.

    I also believe Google maps to be a better engineered system in general, with better support and more useful tools. I've never been completely satisfied by a Microsoft product, and continue to be disappointed with the implementation here.

    I am not alone in my disappointment, as numerous other mountain bikers share my sentiment: Disappointed with Garmin Connect update

    Hopefully Garmin is the kind of company that responds to feedback from its customers.

    Cordially, Chris
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  23. #23
    zod
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Someone did an extension for Chrome that changes maps back to Google while in GC. Via Facebook, https://chrome.google.com/extensions...mdphhpockpbldc

    Now if they could do it for FireFox.
    Ha! I was just logging on to post this info up. I asked if he'd do it for Firefox. No response yet but I'm sure it is in the works.

    They need to do one for IE, that would be a nice kick in the face.

  24. #24
    since 4/10/2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Someone did an extension for Chrome that changes maps back to Google while in GC. Via Facebook, https://chrome.google.com/extensions...mdphhpockpbldc

    Now if they could do it for FireFox.

    very nice. installed.

  25. #25
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    Wow.....bing maps is using old photos......Looked at my local ride.....trail that was new early last year, doesn't even show up on the satelite pics.
    I resolve to constantly assert my honest opinion on anything and everything - whether it is requested or not.
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  26. #26
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    Thanks for the heads up NateHawk and everyone else. I just started using GarminConnect a few weeks ago and one of the things i loved was the Google maps.

  27. #27
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    I was writing up a blog post about this for my website, and a Google search turned up at least 26 blog and forum posts with people pissed about the update and not a single person voicing support for it. Make that 27 now, since my post also expressed disdain (and links to all of those sites I Googled, plus a link to the Facebook group and a link to the Chrome extension).

    And of course, Garmin is completely mum outside of their own blog post where they call the transition to Bing an "improvement". Not for their user base, that's for sure!

  28. #28
    Big Gulps, Alright!
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    Quote Originally Posted by me
    The embedded Google maps application was much more useful than the current implementation. I have a Garmin Edge 305 that I use when cycling (typically 6-7 days a week). I love the Edge and Garmin Connect - together they work very well and up until now I've been totally satisfied. I'm primarily a mountain biker, and while Bing maps may be adequate for road riding, it does not compare to Google maps for offroad usage. The lack of a visual 'terrain' feature is disappointing and the overall look and feel is rather cheap. I liked it much better prior to the change.

    I also believe Google maps to be a better engineered system in general, with better support and more useful tools. I've never been completely satisfied by a Microsoft product, and continue to be disappointed with the implementation here.

    I am not alone in my disappointment, as numerous other mountain bikers share my sentiment: Disappointed with Garmin Connect update

    Hopefully Garmin is the kind of company that responds to feedback from its customers.

    Cordially, Chris
    Here's the response they sent me (sounds like your typical form letter)

    Dear Chris,
    Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

    We appreciate your thoughts regarding our transition to Bing maps within Garmin Connect. Our goal during this transition is, and always will be, to provide the highest quality products to our customers.
    There were many factors involved in this decision, and we believe this transition is a positive step forward and will enable great things to come within Garmin Connect. We certainly hoped such a change would not create any hardships for our users. However, we understand that some have been affected by the change to our map provider and we ask for your patience. We are working diligently to exceed all users‘ expectations now and in the future.
    Again, thank you for your feedback and rest assured your thoughts are taken seriously and deemed crucial in helping us deliver products our customers desire.

    With Best Regards,
    Heather F
    Product Support Specialist
    Outdoor/Fitness Team
    Garmin International
    913-397-8200
    800-800-1020
    913-440-8280 (fax) Att: Heather F, Associate #5697
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  29. #29
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    Did anyone see yet the news coming out about Bing's new hire?
    http://www.bing.com/community/site_b...community.aspx
    http://apb.directionsmag.com/archive...Microsoft.html

    Bing is trying something with this, and nobody mentions it yet, but I think Garmin was in the loop on this and it might be part of the reason Garmin made the switch.

    Does this mean Garmin is going to toss its hat into the OSM camp with Microsoft leading them in? It could be an interesting combination in the future, but we're certainly no strangers to Garmin taking on a project and making it public before it's really ready for primetime (ahem - Motionbased migration debacle, anyone?).

  30. #30
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    Problem solved

    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Someone did an extension for Chrome that changes maps back to Google while in GC. Via Facebook, https://chrome.google.com/extensions...mdphhpockpbldc
    Seems like an awful lot of complaining about a free service. If I were paying for it I would expect more. Both Chrome and the extension are free. So that problem has been solved. Although GC certainly has some problems, it is still the biggest repository of rides in my area.

  31. #31
    It's carbon dontcha know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk
    Did anyone see yet the news coming out about Bing's new hire?
    http://www.bing.com/community/site_b...community.aspx
    http://apb.directionsmag.com/archive...Microsoft.html

    Bing is trying something with this, and nobody mentions it yet, but I think Garmin was in the loop on this and it might be part of the reason Garmin made the switch.

    Does this mean Garmin is going to toss its hat into the OSM camp with Microsoft leading them in? It could be an interesting combination in the future, but we're certainly no strangers to Garmin taking on a project and making it public before it's really ready for primetime (ahem - Motionbased migration debacle, anyone?).
    Bing maps now looks like it's changed style, it looks very OSMesque. Connect is still on the older style...

  32. #32
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    You Get What You Pay For

    Quote Originally Posted by Wherewolf
    Seems like an awful lot of complaining about a free service. If I were paying for it I would expect more. Both Chrome and the extension are free. So that problem has been solved. Although GC certainly has some problems, it is still the biggest repository of rides in my area.
    Amen, brother. I like Bing less than Google too but I'm not looking the gift horse in the mouth.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6thElement
    Bing maps now looks like it's changed style, it looks very OSMesque. Connect is still on the older style...
    that started happening sooner than I anticipated. though I never had a problem with bing's street maps per se...it's the imagery that's terrible. and that has not changed.

    Amen, brother. I like Bing less than Google too but I'm not looking the gift horse in the mouth.
    And when there are literally dozens of other free services out there that do use the better quality imagery from Google, I will happily take my traffic elsewhere.

  34. #34
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    Thanks for the write-up. I saw some of the chatter on the Garmin forums after they made the switch, but I forget about this subforum on MTBR sometimes.

  35. #35
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    Ha! The earth moved for Garmin.

    GC updates tomorrow
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  36. #36
    since 4/10/2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Ha! The earth moved for Garmin.

    GC updates tomorrow
    I had heard about this supposed update, but was waiting with baited breath to find out what it actually involved. Imagine that, they actually listened to the resounding "You Suck!" from Garmin Connect users.

    Now, I'm sure this doesn't mean they're adding Google layers into the map viewer - it'll be interesting to see how Bing implements the terrain view option. Also curious to see if the birds eye imagery is any better than Bing's imagery.

  37. #37
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    Ha! they didn't approve of my comment on their blog.

  38. #38
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    Kind of stoked to see how the compare activities works out!

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked
    Ha! they didn't approve of my comment on their blog.
    yeah, I've tried posting comments on their blog, too. unless it's all warm-fuzzy, they won't approve it. but since I never see comments on their blog in the first place, it makes me wonder why they even allow comments in the first place.

  40. #40
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    I have nothing warm or fuzzy to say about bing.

    I did a little looking and discovered that bing's "aerials" are 4 years old. didnt look to hard to find that either. I can imagine that if I was to look harder I could find older.

    this day and age something that old is beyond obsolete.

  41. #41
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    Your lives are so tough

    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked
    .. bing's "aerials" are 4 years old. didnt look to hard to find that either. I can imagine that if I was to look harder I could find older. this day and age something that old is beyond obsolete.
    Although I certainly prefer Google to Bing, I can't believe what a big deal people are making about this. The earth and biking trails have changed so much in the past four years that the Bing images are now "beyond obsolete"

    Install the browser plugin to switch to Google maps and then please get on with your lives

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wherewolf
    Although I certainly prefer Google to Bing, I can't believe what a big deal people are making about this. The earth and biking trails have changed so much in the past four years that the Bing images are now "beyond obsolete"

    Install the browser plugin to switch to Google maps and then please get on with your lives
    Maybe it's fine where you live, but Bing is a very major downgrade for some of us. That browser plugin doesn't quite cut it for me. I've just gone elsewhere for my data uploads, but that doesn't mean I no longer have an opinion.

    FYI, the update gets a solid "meh" from me. I don't see the terrain view option anywhere at all, and the Bird's Eye imagery option doesn't even have coverage in my area (wtf?). Marginal improvement, at best. I'm not bothering to stick around and look at any of the other changes, but I see they've changed up the layout somewhat.

  43. #43
    govt kontrakt projkt mgr
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    Thx for tht update on the update Nate. based on your observation, I will remain with "RideWithGPS", even with the shortcomings it has.

    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk
    Maybe it's fine where you live, but Bing is a very major downgrade for some of us. That browser plugin doesn't quite cut it for me. I've just gone elsewhere for my data uploads, but that doesn't mean I no longer have an opinion.

    FYI, the update gets a solid "meh" from me. I don't see the terrain view option anywhere at all, and the Bird's Eye imagery option doesn't even have coverage in my area (wtf?). Marginal improvement, at best. I'm not bothering to stick around and look at any of the other changes, but I see they've changed up the layout somewhat.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wherewolf
    Although I certainly prefer Google to Bing, I can't believe what a big deal people are making about this. The earth and biking trails have changed so much in the past four years that the Bing images are now "beyond obsolete"

    Install the browser plugin to switch to Google maps and then please get on with your lives
    Thats just part of it.
    maybe you missed the part where users are tracked running on water, thru buildings, missing roads or roads shown where non exist. Not to mention where the map doesnt exist at all.

    Bing is a vastly inferior product.
    The switch should have never happened or there should have been a option for the users to choose.

    I installed the chrome plugin, I prefer Firefox (havent found a plugin for that yet). so now when I want to use connect I have to use chrome just to see the maps.
    I tracked my last route using bing then google. take a wild guess what I saw. bing reported sharp jagged turns as much as 100ft off track. Google reported smooth turns and the most I saw was 30ft off track. that was with the SAME exact route.

  45. #45
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    I'm so sorry

    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked
    ...so now when I want to use connect I have to use chrome just to see the maps...
    Your life sure is tough
    Got any links to these maps?

  46. #46
    trail rat
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    Someone posted this in the Garmin forums.



    This is what many people around the world see with Bing. There is no detail outside of the major metropolitan areas of the world, and even many major world cities have no detail. Sad......

    Here is a good example.
    https://forums.garmin.com//showthread.php?t=14690
    "The physician heals, Nature makes well" - real fortune cookie

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  47. #47
    since 4/10/2009
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    It seems Microsoft is attempting to assert itself with regards to GPS and stuff. They're going after TomTom, I hear. Seems they're not going after Garmin because Garmin has always been a loyal pushover to Microsoft's wishes.

  48. #48
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    Good fix for Chrome

    Quote Originally Posted by slocaus
    Someone did an extension for Chrome that changes maps back to Google while in GC. Via Facebook, https://chrome.google.com/extensions...mdphhpockpbldc
    Wow, that's fantastic! Now I don't have to use those (nearly) worthless bing maps. Bye bye Micros*ft.
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