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Thread: VT Thread

  1. #1
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    VT Thread

    Well since I am stuck with mine for a while, I thought I would start a VT thread.

    For starters here is a link to a frame, shock and headset 04 model in all the sizes and 2 colors for only $299. I have not been to the shop. They say walk ins only so you have to live in Southern CA or at least visit here. And I thought Igot a deal at $399.
    http://wheelworld.com/site/itemdetai...=39&sort=Price

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    Hey, be happy! This bike is supposedly fantastic (I'll be able to confirm soon, I'm building mine over the next couple months). I got mine for the same price - have you had any troubles building it up? This thread might be useful as a guide to those building theirs from a frame.
    For example, a lot of people ask about the seatpost size:
    I know the seatpost is 30.9 mm (some say 30.8 works too).

    The trouble I'm having is figuring out what kind of front derailleur I need.
    So far I have a Minute 1, Crossride wheelset, Avid mechanical brakes and that's it.
    Anyone willing to give advice on building a complete bike from the frame?

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    ...too bad you cant order online! I would have bought one (or two). There are a lot of good VT deals out there, ive seen the frame with rear shock for 200$.

    Im highly considering getting a VT. I would probably get a fork and most componets off ebay, and she would be sitting pretty next to my NRS!
    One of my friends recently died of a coke overdose and it really got me thinking, "damn, maybe I should start drinking pepsi"

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    I dont think I would ever go SS. Moreover, never on my NRS. Shes too great geared, every terrain, hill, descent... its all perfect. Im probably going to have to wait until after my birthday (jan.17) to buy a vee tee. Im getting the frame possibly for christmas, fork for my birthday, everything else out of pocket. I might now though... 600$ is pricey and thats assuming I get the frame at 250$ and fork at 150$ and everything else at 200$...
    One of my friends recently died of a coke overdose and it really got me thinking, "damn, maybe I should start drinking pepsi"

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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf
    Well since I am stuck with mine for a while, I thought I would start a VT thread.

    For starters here is a link to a frame, shock and headset 04 model in all the sizes and 2 colors for only $299. I have not been to the shop. They say walk ins only so you have to live in Southern CA or at least visit here. And I thought Igot a deal at $399.
    http://wheelworld.com/site/itemdetai...=39&sort=Price
    you were so stoked on the bike not long ago and now you're "stuck" with it?

  6. #6
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    Im sure what he meant to say is that "I appreaciate this bike very much and am glad I have it."
    One of my friends recently died of a coke overdose and it really got me thinking, "damn, maybe I should start drinking pepsi"

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    I just took a 2004 VT3 out for a demo ride last week. I Had a 2003 Stumpjumper FSR and found that while i am not an overly aggressive rider, my considerable weight was slowly wearing out my bike. In particular the rear triangle. I really liked the way the VT felt and in particular the fact that i had no bobbing at the rear yet a super plush ride. The weight difference between the two bikes is minimal, with the lighter bike being the VT! The weak link on the VT3 is the uber soft Black fork, i just purchased a REBA TEAM a month ago so no problem there. I decided to buy it and swap the fork over. I can't wait to try it out! Unfortunately we just got 4 inches of snow last night.
    I think overall the VT is a decent bike for bigger XC type riders as it seems to pedal better than my Stumpy and the frame seems very strong.
    I was originally looking at the frame deal at wheelworld but was then looking at the whole bike deal there for 999 as well. I am in Canada and that is a far better price than the LBS, but after the demo, i got the price worked down enough to make it worth buying local (gotta support the LBS!). The owner is a great guy and he let me have the bike for cost, he even swapped the parts around for me for only a few bucks.
    Any suggestions on good rubber for this beast? I hear the stock scorpions are a bit questionable.

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    Just cause I am stuck with it doesn't mean I don't like it.

    I just can't afford to be a member of the bike of the month club!

    I really enjoy the bike and like the way I have it set up.

    Fork: Zokes XC run in 120mm mode.

    Brakes: Avid Mechanicals. Like them

    30.8 post since that was stamped on the shim that came out of it.

    I use high rise bars and bar ends.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf
    Just cause I am stuck with it doesn't mean I don't like it.

    I just can't afford to be a member of the bike of the month club!
    Know how that feels. Although if I had the choice of my NRS or any other Giant bike, I would take the NRS any day of the week.

    I might start taking to my LBS about getting a VT1 or Reign 3.
    One of my friends recently died of a coke overdose and it really got me thinking, "damn, maybe I should start drinking pepsi"

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    If i can get out on the VT anytime soon i will report back how it compares. After the demo i was impressed enough to buy it. I can only afford one bike so it has to be able to do it all. I think the VT fits into that better than the Stumpy does. As i said i think i am just too heavy for the Stumpjumper (about 230lbs.). It was dificult to try and tune the rear shock as i needed to run about 250psi. It didnt have any pro pedal and the bob was noticeable. I think i was actually flexing the rear triangle under heavy chain loads as it always felt like it was binding up.

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    I was running around 205 in the main and 120 in the SPV chamber. It felt pretty good but it was really muddy and slick the day i tested it so it was hard to benchmark it against the Stumpy.
    But as i said before i found it pedalled very well and was very plush feeling. It had the Black comp (no adjustments other than travel and i left that at 120mm). The black felt pretty good except when i was hard on teh brakes, she would dive rather badly.
    I wanna give her a good and proper ride now that my reba is on there set at 115mm. I am keeping the rubber from my stumpy as an extra set (RollX front Fast track pro rear) for drier conditions.
    Justy hope we get some dry cool weather soon!

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    488mm at 115mm so it is very close.
    It should feel better than teh Black because i will be riding higher in the travel. I sagged the black way too much.
    Lots of tuning ahead!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by granny.gear
    Heh, anybody got VT pic's... action shots, build shots???
    Not recent but you get the picture.





    The XMax and Black fork were replaced by a Minute 3 and X3.1/JuJu wheelset. The XMax and Black are on my singlespeed.

    Not me but is my VT. Since singlespeeding full time the VT is a loaner bike/dust collector.


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by granny.gear
    Nice pics Dirt Devil.

    She's a bit meaner looking with the Minute... longer legged.

    Out of curiousity, is the VT night riding with no lights ? Or extremely dense tropical vegetation!
    Dense vegetation late in the afternoon, the bottle holder is there to hold the battery for night riding.

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    Picked up one of those $299 VT frames from Wheel World recently. I've have out ridden my XC bike and wanted to build up a 5" travel trail bike.

    Below are some build pics of it just before I finished running all the cables.

    In the past I have ridden: Specialized FSRxc, Santa Cruz Superlight, Jamis Dakar, Giant AC and my recently retired KHS 304.

    By far, this VT is the best riding bike of all the bikes I have ridden. I am fan of the SPV technology. I don't mind the fancy single pivot rear design of the VT. Having coming from an Horst bike before, I don't really notice any negative characteristics of the rear suspension. The benefits of the SPV rear shock more than makes up riding a Horst bike with just a regular Fox Float rear shock IMO, but that's just my take on it.

    I set up my SPV pressure pretty high because I like a firm ride, like a nice old BMW

    I find that the Minute up front and VT's Swinger in the rear make this bike a snappier handling bike. I launch off of logs and 2 footers with alot less effort than the other bikes that I used to ride.

    Nothing special with my build, just basic stuff that I have found to work out well for my style and weight. Only things noteworthy are:
    - Minute 1 fork
    - Raceface Evolve XC (x-type BB)
    - Sunrace thumbie friction shifters

    Have not done the bathroom scale weighing in yet. But my guess is it's around 32-34 pounds.

    I do plan on replacing the Deore/RhynoLite wheels with XT/717 wheels, which should shed about 400 grams and replace the DH tires with some Mutanoraptors, which should shed another 400 grams. So there's about 2 pounds to lose here.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf
    Well since I am stuck with mine for a while...
    I would hardly refer to riding a VT as being stuck

    It's a nice ride. True it's not a Trance, Blur or an Iron Horse DW link bike, but it's still a worthy ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by granny.gear
    488 will be nimble handling. I seem to run much more sag in the back than the front. I keep the SPV air pressure up high in my fork.... keep the front solid and no dive, but very little sag . I seem to do one setting in leave it for ages.... think I should be a bit more adventurous with my settings.
    I also run pressure high in my SPV chambers. I like the firmer ride and reduced fork dive.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by frankenbike
    I would hardly refer to riding a VT as being stuck

    It's a nice ride. True it's not a Trance, Blur or an Iron Horse DW link bike, but it's still a worthy ride.

    Out doing a Thankgiving weekend ride with the daughter and nephews. One way mostly downhill ride of about 12 miles. My 14 year old nephew was on my old KHS and I on the VT. Well at least he was impressed with my ability to corner faster but by the end of the ride he got the hang of it and it got too scaring staying with him. Dang kids. We took care of him on the short uphills though!

    I wanted a long travel (for me) single pivot bike and the VT delivers. I like it better than my friend's jeckle and prophet. AT 5.75 inches of travel it takes so much more than a 4 inch travel bike. Very happy with it. It would be fun to buy another cheap VT frame and make it as light as possible with a rear lockout along with front lock out. But too much money for my blood and by the time you make it rideable you add 2 to 6 pounds anyways.

    My next project is a light weight 29er softride with a decent fork on it.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by granny.gear
    Ugghh! VT's weren't meant to see the rear end of a KHS downhill!!!! Glad you like your VT... you just can't go wrong with one, heh.

    Why a 29er?
    Well I am faster on my VT and the control and comfort factor is much greater too than my KHS BUT when you are riding against a "better" rider, you better not let all that suspension lead to a high speed crash! The nephew is on a bike all the time doing jumps and skids and what not. Wheelies, nose wheelies, you get the picture.

    The grin on his face when he was on a better bike than at home and on a real mountain bike ride instead of urban riding was worth getting beat!

    Another reason for my going with more suspension travel as I get older, is it gives me more margin for error, is more comfortable and it makes night riding easier.

    29?? Well, been reading that forum and it sounds interesting. It won't happen any time soon. Probably would have to get Otis Guy to do a custom one. My old softride doesn't have suspension ready geometry, and I would like to run at least a 100mm fork. I would go with disc brake mounts too.

    So Granny where do you live in Australia??

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    LX or XT

    I'd go with an XT front derailleur.

    Quote Originally Posted by voodoosand
    Hey, be happy! This bike is supposedly fantastic (I'll be able to confirm soon, I'm building mine over the next couple months). I got mine for the same price - have you had any troubles building it up? This thread might be useful as a guide to those building theirs from a frame.
    For example, a lot of people ask about the seatpost size:
    I know the seatpost is 30.9 mm (some say 30.8 works too).

    The trouble I'm having is figuring out what kind of front derailleur I need.
    So far I have a Minute 1, Crossride wheelset, Avid mechanical brakes and that's it.
    Anyone willing to give advice on building a complete bike from the frame?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiRt DeViL
    Not recent but you get the picture.


    The XMax and Black fork were replaced by a Minute 3 and X3.1/JuJu wheelset. The XMax and Black are on my singlespeed.

    Not me but is my VT. Since singlespeeding full time the VT is a loaner bike/dust collector.
    Dude! A Warp can be the perfect loaner/dust collector/towel holder... You'd rather ship your VT down to Mexico where it can have a happy life climbing nice trails and descending twisty singletrack... I can ship you my Warp for you have a loaner.

    You bastid!! How you dare to keep such a terrific bike as a loaner!!

    Congrats! Lucky one!
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    Your wish is my command

    Quote Originally Posted by granny.gear
    Heh, anybody got VT pic's... action shots, build shots???
    Some action pics from today's ride




  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by granny.gear
    How often do you guys ride, any drops or jumps?
    I don't do any jumps or drops, everytime I tried I end up with a face full of dirt. I try to ride about 4 times a week, most of the rides on my geared roadie but squeeze a trail ride once in a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by granny.gear
    What's the temps this time of year in Peurto Rico?
    Temps change frequently in the tropics, today was low 90's but the trail is near the coast and some sections are more hot due to the lack of vegetation.

    Quote Originally Posted by granny.gear
    Were you on your SS... what is the SS build?
    My SS is a Kona Unit



    Details on this thread on the Kona forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by granny.gear
    Heh, would you SS your VT ?
    No, a chain tensioner will be required which I don't like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by granny.gear
    When I went from Hardtail to VT I went over the bars a bit too often for my liking. My skills couldn't pilot the VT properly (still no luck, although I itch for a Reign.. which I'm sure would put me in hospital!). I'm advancing in age and it now hurts to go over the bars. I'm in Tasmania. Where are you?

    Never looked at the 29er forum. I occasionally look at the SS and it gives me the itch (the itch you can't afford). I'm hoping to find a use road bike first.

    I guess the 29 gives more ground clearance and the longer wheelbase gives much more stability. Faster with the taller wheels too?

    Back on topic, should we setup a poll on this thread to see who uses 5" or 5.75" setting and what percentage of use???

    Well slow down the speed on the VT and just enjoy the nice ride.

    They talk about 29er wheels having more traction for climbing and rolling over the standard trail junk more efficiently. I am short so it would not be ideal for me like a bigger guy. I think big guys should look at 29er bikes.

    Live in a small mountain town in southern california with lots of great rides.

    Only have used 5.75 inch setting. With this bike go for the max. That is why I got it.

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    Finally added the final parts to my VT.

    Out went: Deore/Rhynolites wheels, Deore Cassette & Tioga DH tires.

    Replaced with: XT/717 wheels, XT Cassette, WTB Mutanoraptor 2.4 tires

    Final weight is now 30.5 pounds using the bathroom scale technique.

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    Quote Originally Posted by granny.gear
    8 speed or 9 speed? Out of curiosity, are those thumbies any good when things get rough?
    The thumbies are 9 speed friction.

    They can be a bit of a chore on downhills, but I have gotten used to them after years of riding with them. I shift into gear before descending. It's not terribly difficult because I never need to do a wide range shift from say the 34t down to the 16t, which would require a long lever throw on the thumbies. I usually only need to shift 1 to 2 cogs at a time, so it's short flick of the lever.

    Overall, I am happy with the VT. I know it's old news and the virtual pivot stuff is rage right now, but th VT works for me and I do think it's a worthy ride, especially for the $300 USD that I paid for the frame new.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by granny.gear
    8 speed or 9 speed? Out of curiosity, are those thumbies any good when things get rough?
    They are not that difficult... best/woth thing is that you either have a lot of chain rub or none at all, depending how good you're shifting.

    Indexed systems are simply better... I had enough from thumbies when they were "new school".
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    No doubt, index is way better.

    These Sunrace shifters have quasi index feel to them in that there are two click sounds when shifting, so all I have to do is listen to the clicks and I have precise shifting.

    I have some SRAM Rocket shifters in the parts bin, will probably throw those on if I get frustrated with these thumbies.

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    I ride an XT front der, but only because it was on clearance and I needed a bottom pull/top swing model. My older LX and Alivio front ders have always been reliable and problem free.

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    I ride XTR mechs with XT shifters, super reliable.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by granny.gear
    I ride Deore shifters and Deore front mech. They exceed my abilities.
    Deore is very good... I concur. Any Shimano below that is a POS in my opinion, ive never had a problem with Deore but Alivio, Altus, those sort of derraillers dont hold a tune and are of poor quality. Stick to Deore or go SRAM. XT and XTR are good, but SRAM is the best for your money. Unless you like RR
    One of my friends recently died of a coke overdose and it really got me thinking, "damn, maybe I should start drinking pepsi"

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by en are es
    Deore is very good... I concur. Any Shimano below that is a POS in my opinion, ive never had a problem with Deore but Alivio, Altus, those sort of derraillers dont hold a tune and are of poor quality. Stick to Deore or go SRAM. XT and XTR are good, but SRAM is the best for your money. Unless you like RR
    I thought much like that until I got stuck with Alivio shifters and FD.... get the job done. No much tuning to make, to be sincere.

    Deore is the champion of value. Period.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp2003
    I thought much like that until I got stuck with Alivio shifters and FD.... get the job done. No much tuning to make, to be sincere.

    Deore is the champion of value. Period.
    Well... I guess the new Alivio is better, im basing my experience on the 2000 year. I think it might be Altus actually.

    Deore is good, I totally agree.
    One of my friends recently died of a coke overdose and it really got me thinking, "damn, maybe I should start drinking pepsi"

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    Buy one of those cheap dial angle finders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by granny.gear
    Great pics... thanks for that. Good seeing the customs built up.

    With the flats and fat tyres you must be 'riding' the VT. Anybody who likes it stiff up front is up to something ... what sort of drops have you done on her, and you think she will survive?
    Ha, I don't plan on doing anything crazy on the VT. Just fun trail riding. I like flat pedals, just a preference. The firm shock settings is because I prefer it over a soft sponge like ride, especially when I stand up on the bike and sprint. Fat tires were just temporary tires while waiting for my Mutanoraptors to arrive.

    I am going to buildup a beefier bike for all the play stuff like drops and street stuff. Eyeing an Enduro SX 4x frame for that stuff.

    I dig the VT. Glad I picked up the frame, only a few left at that clearance price at Wheel World.

  36. #36
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    i'm thinking flat black with a silver accent where the crease on the top tube is

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by granny.gear
    The Aus 05 VT 1 matt black is attached below. It looks good except the decals.
    yeah, remove the tassle-like scallops (what was that olympic "sport" involving gymnastic dancing with a stick with a tassle on the end...), the logo's are ok. the crease in the top tube is what i'd accent (fill with color, silver or white). if at all.

    that's 10 times better looking as is than my shamu.

    or strip it and polish it. nothing better than good ol polished aluminum.

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    Out curiosity...

    Is anyone here running 700c wheels/tires for road riding on their VT?

    I commute to work and was thinking about picking up a set cheapie 700 disc wheelset. Wondering about maximum tire size.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by granny.gear
    Come to think it it, it does look like a gymnastics ribbon !! Polish... there's a thought. The SC Nomad looks trick all polished up! Your idea with the black sounds good but just can't get my head around it. Maybe some clever person can do this with a photo?

    drunkle, what do you think of the UK VT kaki look (05 models on Giant UK)?
    uh... did a bird crap on the top tube? my god. giant needs to stop having the engineers or their kids do the graphic design.

    take a look at your frame, there's a crease line on the top tube in the middle of each side that goes from the seat almost to the head. fill just that crease with color to offset the flat black. i think it'd work since it follows the frame's curves, it's simple, it's a natural highlighting of the metal work, it's not overdone or gaudy like the existing graphics. it's still a flowy, curvy line, but being muted, would accent the bike, break the monotony of a pure color scheme while not being overpowering.

    i think... a photochop would help.


    or... flat black with von dutch, hotrod style pinstriping.

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    Sizing question?

    Does anyone know the height range for the medium 18.5" VT frame? Can someone about 5'7 fit on it? Thanks.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by synkronized23
    Does anyone know the height range for the medium 18.5" VT frame? Can someone about 5'7 fit on it? Thanks.
    Im around your height, and im 90% sure a 18.5" frame would do you fine.
    One of my friends recently died of a coke overdose and it really got me thinking, "damn, maybe I should start drinking pepsi"

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by granny.gear
    drunkle, I had a good laugh at your response mate. I wasn't game to say I didn't like the UK Kaki.

    I think Giant is starting to get its act together after about 3 or so years of funny striped designs on just about every MTB frame.

    Is is expensive to polish a frame? See the attached Aus 05 VT2 (ignore gaudy stripes), as its a polished look.
    yeah, the new bikes (reign/trance) look nice out of the box.

    a custom cycle painting company near me quotes $275 for strip, polish and clear coat. i've stripped a motorcycle gas tank using automotive paint/adhesive remover, a variety of brushes, emery cloths and scouring pads and alot of sweat. the tank was a simple shape without many nooks and crannies. a bike frame might be a bit much especially with the trussed support/rocker. but the upshot being, it's cheap to try and if you get sick/tired of it, you can still send it to a shop.

    other shops you might try; chrome plating, furniture restoration, regular auto painter, auto restoration/metal working... can't think of others. get them to tank/strip the frame (without etching it) or bead blast it. take it home and polish it yourself.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by granny.gear
    18.5" generally suites 5'9" to 5'11"

    I'm 5'8" and ride 16.5". But, I have long torso and short legs so I feel a tad cramped. Standover is just right.

    If your not worried about standover, the bigger frame will allow you to shorten the stem (I like short stems) to suite. A 75mm stem would be spot on on 18.5" frame.
    I'm also 5'8" and ride a 16.5", I went with the small due to the high standover on the VT mostly.

    Use a setback post and a 90mm stem and feel fine.

  44. #44
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    I am 5'10" with a 31" inseam. I ride the 18.5" frame with a 80mm stem.

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    5'8", on a medium, straight seat post, 40mm stem = stable and maneuverable at the same time

  46. #46
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    anyone thought about replacing their suspension bearings with self lubricating bronze bushings? maybe lose some weight that way? gain some stiffness?

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    Swinger Flip

    I thought I'd share an idea I've tried which helps with the seatpost clearance issue on VTs using a Swinger 4-way shock. Normally the bike comes set up with the SPV chamber at the top of the shock, I inverted (turned upside down for you folks in Rio Linda) the 4-way which set the SPV chamber at the bottom end of the shock and gave me another 1 1/2" of clearance. A bonus was that it made all the setting nobs and schrader valves more accessable and helps keep dirt washed off the seals. making this switch will involve switching bushings but it fairly easy.

    Has anyone else tried this?

  48. #48
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    What is teh eye to eye and stroke measurements of the stock 3 way for the VT?
    I have a lead on a decent deal for a 4 way. It is a 7 7/8 2 inch strock. Is this correct?
    Thanks
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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jollybeggar
    I thought I'd share an idea I've tried which helps with the seatpost clearance issue on VTs using a Swinger 4-way shock. Normally the bike comes set up with the SPV chamber at the top of the shock, I inverted (turned upside down for you folks in Rio Linda) the 4-way which set the SPV chamber at the bottom end of the shock and gave me another 1 1/2" of clearance. A bonus was that it made all the setting nobs and schrader valves more accessable and helps keep dirt washed off the seals. making this switch will involve switching bushings but it fairly easy.

    Has anyone else tried this?
    That is, from what I can tell, a farily well known trick. But a great one none the less.
    One of my friends recently died of a coke overdose and it really got me thinking, "damn, maybe I should start drinking pepsi"

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    Weekend photo

    I went for a nice ride on clear windy day here in S. California on the VT. Shot this sloppily put together panoramic stitched photo.
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    Bike shot...

    VT shot.
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    It seems like a lot of people are shoving their seats back on their VT's (and perhaps a lot of other bikes as well) You would think that if they would have made the seat tube at least 1/2 further back it would work better and allow you to not have interference with the shock as you moved your seat down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf
    It seems like a lot of people are shoving their seats back on their VT's (and perhaps a lot of other bikes as well) You would think that if they would have made the seat tube at least 1/2 further back it would work better and allow you to not have interference with the shock as you moved your seat down.
    Because that's a medium frame like mine, and the top tube is only about 22.5" long.

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    I don't mind it. Fits me very well. My old Santa Cruz Superlight medium only had a 22.5 toptube, so I have gotten used to the geometry over the years.

  55. #55
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    I use a setback post on mine.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by granny.gear
    Now your on to something. Turner uses bushings and their explanation seems very valid. You would definately gain in stiffness. Bearing are for high speed things, not slow suspensions! I don't know anything about bronze bushings.... how ar ethey self lubricating... what does Turner use?
    This has been beating to death... I'm not bashing on you Granny, but it's been discussed before.

    Bushings or bearings can be used equally. There are bearings for slow rotational speed and high loads, the are bearing seals that have to survive chemical corrosion environments, there are bearings with low weight and bomproof reliability... but they tend to be more expensive. At OEM volumes it should not be a big deal, though.

    All metals are made by diminute crystals of metal arranged in kind of layers and nets (much like carbon fiber but the joints between molecules of carbon fiber are more flexible) depending on their molecular structure. Sometimes this nets are very loose. This is the case of brass and aluminum. Bushings made of brass have a lot of cavities in its granular structure (seen clearly at a microscope) and in the middle they can be filled with graphite and / or grease.

    Graphite, especifically, has very low friction and when subject to very high stress and temperature it's friction coefficient tends to drop even more and form films that can bear a lot of stress.

    In practice, the bushing looks normal brass colored... but after a while under use, it will leave some grease like residues.

    Additionally, graphite and/or tin powders can be added by sinterization (yes, like on the brake pads - powder metals science) to a layer of brass. It's what we know for "Babbit" and it's extensively used in parts subject to high lods and severe conditions like the metals of a engine's block and crankshaft.

    There are pros and cons on both bushings/bearings. I prefer bearings personally.
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  57. #57
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    wohoo, finally switched my medium cool blue VT3 frame. what do u guys pump on the 3way swinger? i weigh 165# and i pump top 180psi, bottom 100psi and 3 clicks on 5.7" setting. i will ride the bike next weekend and adjust the psi.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kks
    wohoo, finally switched my medium cool blue VT3 frame. what do u guys pump on the 3way swinger? i weigh 165# and i pump top 180psi, bottom 100psi and 3 clicks on 5.7" setting. i will ride the bike next weekend and adjust the psi.
    Maybe its my monitor, but is your rear disc 8" and your front 6"??? Most people run the opposite of that. But maybe its 6"/6" I hope.
    One of my friends recently died of a coke overdose and it really got me thinking, "damn, maybe I should start drinking pepsi"

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by en are es
    Maybe its my monitor, but is your rear disc 8" and your front 6"??? Most people run the opposite of that. But maybe its 6"/6" I hope.
    must be ur monitor...i guess its time for u to get a new one for xmas! i run 6"/6" avid mechanical. thinking of getting a hydro, maybe a juicy.

  60. #60
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    If you looked at my picture then you would see an 8 inch in the rear and a 6 inch in the front. I bought the rear before the front, then decided to go 6 inch. When the adaptors are available I will switch the 8 inch up front and the 6 inch onto the rear.

    Any suggestions for a coil over for the back with compression lockout? Or an air shock with compression lockout??? Willing to trade my swinger 3 way and a little money for one.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by richwolf
    Any suggestions for a coil over for the back with compression lockout? Or an air shock with compression lockout??? Willing to trade my swinger 3 way and a little money for one.

    RS Ario, Pearl or MC3??
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  62. #62
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    I run 208mm front and 180mm rear rotors, the 208 was needed because I have a IS caliper and a post mount fork so an adapter was required and required the bigger rotor, the rear was changed just for looks.

    Try a Fox RP3.

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    In terms a of an air shock with a lockout, I liked the Fox Float RL when I used to ride a Stumpjumper. It was reliable and the suspension stroke was pretty smooth.

    The only thing is that most shocks with a lockout are usually not any kind of stable platform shock, and most shock (if not all) with stable platform do not have a lockout.

    Any particular reasons for disliking the Swinger 3way?

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by kks
    wohoo, finally switched my medium cool blue VT3 frame. what do u guys pump on the 3way swinger? i weigh 165# and i pump top 180psi, bottom 100psi and 3 clicks on 5.7" setting. i will ride the bike next weekend and adjust the psi.
    I weigh 130 pounds and run 150psi in the main chamber and 110psi in the SPV chamber. I prefer a firmer suspension, so my PSI might be higher than others given my weight.

    Nice blue frame. Is that one of the Wheel World $299 specials?

  65. #65
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    I don't have any problems with the swinger other than no lockout. I like to stand some during my rides and the bobbing feels bad and I know it saps forward energy.

    Here is my theory on bobbing. When some of your effort goes into moving your bike up and down it takes energy that could be used to move the bike forward. A rider is lucky if they put out 200 watts continuous. If it takes 10 to 20 watts to move your bike up and down then you are losing 5 to 10 percent for forward progress. During a 30 minute climb that is 1.5 to 3.0 minutes. Now in reality it might be more or less but the difference is there. Stable platform valving or not, standing produces bobbing in all suspension designs that I have seen and felt.

    I did a test of the three bikes I have and a friends Specialized horst link bike.
    1. VT (the worst of the 4 for standing pedaling) Of course it has the most travel and is great for downhill and seated pedaling. Heaviest
    2. Specialized Enduro with 4.7 inch rear travel and very stiff spring. Pedals decent when standing but no lockout. Doesn't feel plush at all when seated due to the heavy spring 2nd lightest.
    3.KHS faux bar. Pedals great when standing due to rear and front lockout and although less travel than the Specialized it feels much plusher when seated probably due to the rear spring being lighter. 3rd lightest
    4. Softride beam bike. Best standing pedaling action even though the front fork does not have lockout. Seated pedaling is great with the beam. I do plan on putting on an adjustable rock shox fork with lockout. Lightest.

    It seems to me the real weak link with long travel full suspension bikes is the motor. With the weight and suspension travel sapping your forward progress they are slower on the uphills. For some situations they are faster, particularly on the downhills and when the going gets really rough.

  66. #66
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    My New VT!

    Got My New VT couple weeks ago, already had to have warranty work on the fork would not compress. I love it though, its my first real bike.
    MY VT2

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    If I was to repaint my VT, I'd go with a single metallic color like the finish on the Klein Palomino.

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    I was at Wheel World this afternoon getting a headset pressed into my 29er build and noticed that there are about 3 VT frarmes left at $299.

    So if anyone is local in Los Angeles and wants a deal on a VT frame, get'em while they're still there.

  69. #69
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    Good job! By chance did you buy it at A Town Bikes??

    Quote Originally Posted by HazletonRiDer
    Got My New VT couple weeks ago, already had to have warranty work on the fork would not compress. I love it though, its my first real bike.
    MY VT2
    If you did..............I heard you got a smokin' deal! Nice going! I bought mine there in March/April of 2044, suffice to say I paid quite a bit more. I have really used my VT and enjoyed it! Enjoy yours!

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    By the looks of that bike, it looks like you've been giving that VT a nice life in the dirt! I am going to steal your electrical tape ideal to prevent cable rub on the paint. Good one.

  71. #71
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    smokin deal

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffSkisMontana
    If you did..............I heard you got a smokin' deal! Nice going! I bought mine there in March/April of 2044, suffice to say I paid quite a bit more. I have really used my VT and enjoyed it! Enjoy yours!
    I got for $999, so from 2,199, i think its a pretty good deal. got the peak shoe from jenson $78
    bucks, its great, but i don't get to ride it often now that its winter . O any one have any tips for the front minute 1:00, its a little soft, i built a ramp yesterday and went off of it and it looked like the fork bottomed out.

  72. #72
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    Minute 1 comes with springs for a 150-170 lb person. If you substantially over, or want it stiffer get a Firm Spring (170-190 lbs). Adding more air to the SPV will give you better resistance bottoming, but you will lose small bump compliance. Also make sure you turn the SPV volume adjuster all the way in (clockwise) to make it more progressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by HazletonRiDer
    O any one have any tips for the front minute 1:00, its a little soft, i built a ramp yesterday and went off of it and it looked like the fork bottomed out.

  73. #73
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    All Mountain's tips for the tuning the Minute are excellent tips.

    The SPV forks take a bit of trial and error tuning. But once dialed in, you pretty much just forget it.

    The Minute 1 on my VT has been one of my favorite forks (second to the Lefty Max 130 SPV).

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffSkisMontana
    If you did..............I heard you got a smokin' deal! Nice going! I bought mine there in March/April of 2044, suffice to say I paid quite a bit more. I have really used my VT and enjoyed it! Enjoy yours!
    lol i didnt see the title before, yeah i did get it from a-town, i think i saw yours up there getting tuned up when i was purchasing mine. maybe we could get together some time and go ride. dont know really anyone to ride wit over here.

  75. #75
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    VT Roll Call

    All Mountain's VT:

    04 Giant VT w/ Manitou Swinger 3-way,
    05 Manitou Minute 1 100-130mm SPVE,
    XT Hubs - 6 bolt,
    XT HN GS Rear Derailleur,
    FSA Platinum Pro MegaQuad BB,
    Easton EA50 30.9mm Seat Pole,
    Shimano PD-M520 Pedals,
    Shimano HG-73 Chain

    Giant broke the mold with this one, but too bad they threw the mold away! I have been riding the VT over the last year and have been very pleased with it. Hope to see more VT photos in this thread.
    Last edited by All Mountain; 09-20-2007 at 10:15 PM.

  76. #76
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    Not much riding going on right now....

    Quote Originally Posted by HazletonRiDer
    lol i didnt see the title before, yeah i did get it from a-town, i think i saw yours up there getting tuned up when i was purchasing mine. maybe we could get together some time and go ride. dont know really anyone to ride wit over here.
    Doing quite a bit of skiing, both downhill and xc. Will be riding again in April. Drop me a PM with your e mail and I will add you to a list that goes out locally for riding in the area.

  77. #77
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    VT Roll Call.........................

    Bought in March/April 2004 at Around Town Bikes. Stock VT 2 except for XTR Rapid Rise Rear D. Really have enjoyed this rig. Here are a couple pics:
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    There are two paths you can go by but in the long run........

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    Gravity Dropper & Descender Seatpost

    I am thinking about adding either the Gravity Dropper or the Descender seatpost to my VT to solve the problem of not being able to lower the seatpost as low as I prefer for descending tech sections.

    Has anyone tried one of these? It can drop 3 inches with either the flick of the handlebar mounted lever (Gravity model) or the knob on the post itself (less $$$ Descender model). I had forgetten about these after Interbike until I saw a photo of Hans Rey riding with one in some ad.


  79. #79
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    Dropper worked great, but found it was easier to just get behind the saddle descending. I now run a fixed clamp too. I have the small frame which allows no virtually no usefull pole adjustment, but I'm a tad big for the frame (my choice) so I can get behind the saddle easily.

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    Thanks for the reply. I think that I will check out the less expensive version, the Descender, with the knob on the post instead of the remote lever.
    I'm an Inbred...29er that is.

  81. #81
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    ok, first i have a 04 medium VT3, the blue frame on the pic a few threads above. my seat post cannot be lowered completely.

    then just now i went to tustin performance and saw a 04 medium VT1 with the seatpost completely lowered passed the whole 3way swinger. i was like WTF???!!!, so the guy that work for performance told me this:

    04 medium VT1: YES to lowered completely
    04 medium VT2: NO to lowered completely
    04 medium VT3: NO to lowered completely

    Giant is all mess up man...

    maybe i shd call Giant now and tell them WTF man?

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by kks
    ok, first i have a 04 medium VT3, the blue frame on the pic a few threads above. my seat post cannot be lowered completely.

    then just now i went to tustin performance and saw a 04 medium VT1 with the seatpost completely lowered passed the whole 3way swinger. i was like WTF???!!!, so the guy that work for performance told me this:

    04 medium VT1: YES to lowered completely
    04 medium VT2: NO to lowered completely
    04 medium VT3: NO to lowered completely

    Giant is all mess up man...

    maybe i shd call Giant now and tell them WTF man?
    Apparently, they realized about it and (unfortunately) the VT is out of Giant's catalog for a second year now....
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  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp2003
    Apparently, they realized about it and (unfortunately) the VT is out of Giant's catalog for a second year now....
    Tons of bikes have seat post limiting issues. I cut mine off to a height where I can put it down further than I need to for descents. The shim thing was no good but I took care of that by ordering the right diameter seat post. For me it is a total non issue.

    I certainly doubt Giant will re introduce the VT. Too many other fish for them to fry.

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    Interesting. I wonder if this has something to do with the fact that no matter how I measure, my top tube is shorter than the claimed measurement. I know this came up somewhere in this thread before. I wonder if some were made with shorter top tubes?
    I'm an Inbred...29er that is.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by frankenbike
    Interesting. I wonder if this has something to do with the fact that no matter how I measure, my top tube is shorter than the claimed measurement. I know this came up somewhere in this thread before. I wonder if some were made with shorter top tubes?
    Yeah, I brought that up before. The top tube on my '04 medim VT3 frame is less than 22.5". If what KKS wrote is correct, then the '04 top tube probably does measure 23.2", per Giant's spec. Why would it be different for the VT2s and VT3s? Were those frames made with scraps, hence the huge discounts on the web for the VT3s on the web??

  86. #86
    kks
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    ****, im gonna go home later to double check on the frame measurement. and maybe i will go back to tustin performance to measure the VT1.

    did they used a small frame top tube (22.6") to weld on a medium frame???

    if thats true, i m gonna do some calling to giant.

    i felt cheated.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by kks
    ****, im gonna go home later to double check on the frame measurement. and maybe i will go back to tustin performance to measure the VT1.

    did they used a small frame top tube (22.6") to weld on a medium frame???

    if thats true, i m gonna do some calling to giant.

    i felt cheated.
    Well I don't think it is quite as easy as slapping a short top tube on a medium frame.

    I doubt Giant would do anything for you. I guess either you like the bike or you don't. If the bike doesn't fit you then perhaps sell it and get something that does.

    My small fits me well but I did have to shove my seat all the way back. I think on AM type bikes they are making the head angles slacker and the top tubes shorter. Why do so many people run laid back seat posts? To make the top tube longer you have to either change the seat tube angle or increase the wheel base.

    To me, the way Giant should have addressed the issue is to add about 1/2 inch of tubing behind the tube that goes in front of the shock. That way if people wanted to sit more forward they could adjust their seat forward. The seat post then would not interfere so much with the shock.

  88. #88
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    ya, my 04 medium VT3 top tube is 22.5" and wheelbase is 42". im gonna go down to performance later if i have free time to measure the VT1.

    actually i feel comfortable in this frame and my whole bike setup, so i dont care about the wrong real measurement vs giant's. just dont understand why did Giant made this mistake.

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    Hello. I've been riding my VT for several months now, and overall I really like it. I'm having a little trouble finding a good setting for my rear shock though. Right now, it's at 175 main, and 95 SPV. I weigh 185. I was trying to go by the manual's guidelines, but it feels a little too soft and bobby. Are any of you around the same weight as me, and if so, what pressures are you running? Also, on another note, I just upgraded my fork to a RockShox Revelation, and it is a nice compliment to this bike.
    Thanks.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by All Mountain
    I almost got a Revelation, but went for the 05 Minute One 100-130 SPVE just cause it was so cheap at $250 for close-out pricing. My first choice was a Revelation, and that is what I really wanted. No regrets with the Minute though.
    I have been enjoying my 04 Minute 1 for over a year now. It's a good match for the VT. After a lot of experimenting, I have been able to match the feel of the SPV for both the front and the rear. It's been a reliable fork with zero problems. Air never leaks from the SPV leg. I used to check the PSI every weekend for the first 2 months and noticed it never changed so now I don't even bother checking it.
    I'm an Inbred...29er that is.

  91. #91
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    Found some old online review articles

    I had this online review of the VT bookmarked. Just thought I post them incase anyone was interested in reading it...

    Mountain Bike Magazine:
    http://www.mountainbike.com/bikes/ar...70_601,00.html
    I'm an Inbred...29er that is.

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by frankenbike
    I had this online review of the VT bookmarked. Just thought I post them incase anyone was interested in reading it...

    Mountain Bike Magazine:
    http://www.mountainbike.com/bikes/ar...70_601,00.html
    The link does not work for me. I get to the web site but can't see or read the review.

  93. #93
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    We the people ...

    Here is the article pasted below...



    Giant VT1
    Long travel and smooth pedaling? Hmmm...
    April 2003



    In 2000 Giant introduced NRS suspension. Designed around zero sag, NRS was primarily a lightweight, XC performance/race system. Two years later the AC was born. With up to 6 inches of travel (since boosted to 6.5), the AC was designed to handle freeride abuse. But between these two very different machines was a big hole in Giant's suspension lineup. Filling that hole is the VT. Says Giant: "If you could only have one bike, this would be it."

    Though the VT is an all-new frame design for Giant, it borrows some technology from the company's latest DH offerings. Like the latest DH design, the VT's low, single-pivot design incorporates a wild-looking linkage to actuate the shock and cartridge-bearing pivots. To achieve a lower center of gravity, Giant moved the shock as far down on the frame as it could.

    The rear end can be set to either 5 or 5.7 inches of travel--though not on the fly. Up front, a RockShox Psylo U-Turn fork gives the bike adjustable geometry, changing the head-tube angle from 69 degrees at 5 inches of travel to 71 at 3, while dropping the bottom bracket from 131? inches to 131?. Overall, the VT's geometry is more XC than DH. In fact, the top-tube length on a medium VT matches that of a 23.2-inch, medium NRS, and with the VT's Psylo set at 4 inches of travel, head and seat angles match as well.

    SPV: Heralded but Hidden
    The Manitou Swinger Air shock uses internal technology licensed from Progressive Suspension, the company that brought us the 5th Element shock and which bought the rights to the technologies found in the Curnutt shocks used on Foes bikes. You can't see what makes the Swinger so interesting, because it's tucked away inside the shock body, but you can feel it when you're riding. The Swinger contains what Manitou calls a Stable Platform Valve (SPV). The SPV replaces the traditional shim stack found in most shocks as a method of controlling oil flow, and brings with it some unique characteristics. With a traditional shock, increasing low-speed compression damping to reduce unwanted suspension movement reduces small-bump compliance and makes a bike ride harshly. The most extreme example is a lockout, which shuts off the low-speed circuit. SPV, on the other hand, is said to virtually eliminate unwanted suspension movement and create a firm "platform" for pedaling, with minimal effect on small-bump compliance. This "platform" helps tune out much of the wallowing that can make a bike feel unstable in corners or through rough sections. Using a shock pump, a rider can control how much or how little platform is present. The shock also has externally adjustable position sensitivity, which tunes how much of an increase in compression damping there is at the end of its stroke. This allows the rider to tune a bike's feel at the end of its travel.

    The Swinger: Loved but Lonely
    Giant should pat itself on the back for snaring the exclusive on the Manitou Swinger shock. Testers of all predilections praised the shock's performance. Despite the bike's generous amounts of travel and sag, the Swinger was able to tune out noticeable pedal bob, while still offering excellent bump-absorbing performance. Riders who normally run high spring rates on longer-travel suspension bikes to get a firmer pedaling feel liked the ability to set the spring rate independent from pedaling. This allowed them to maintain the correct spring rate relative to their weight for proper suspension performance and bike handling, while still offering good pedaling feel. Those who spent any time on the Progressive 5th Element noted how much more "alive" the Swinger shock felt, seemingly without sacrificing performance.

    Alas, the Swinger does have its downsides. Compared with a standard Fox Float shock, the Swinger is heavier (by about 160 grams), it transmits more small-bump feedback (how much more depends on how much platform is put in), and, though it can perform magically if set up properly, with all the adjustments built in, the possibility does exist of setting it up improperly. Fortunately, Manitou and Giant provide guidelines for proper setup--use 'em.

    As far as the RockShox Psylo fork is concerned, it doesn't complement the controlled feeling of the Swinger. While the back end of the bike feels calm and planted at all times, the front feels springy and skips down the trail. We're not crazy about the Psylo's ride quality to begin with; on the VT, its undesirable traits are even more pronounced. But because of the Swinger's unique feel and performance, it's going to be difficult to find any fork that'll work well with it. If only there were a fork with SPV, this Swinger would have a partner.

    The Verdict
    When it comes to handling, the Giant delivers solid geometry--agile enough to rip through tight singletrack and able to handle reasonable steeps and drops with grace. As for the performance of the frame, there was a bit of rear-end flex when crossing ruts or cornering hard. But the unique thing about this bike is the Manitou Swinger shock. It raises the bar in climbing and descending performance and makes the VT a bike with a cushy ride but without smooshy pedaling--a combination that isn't easy to achieve. So if you're looking for a long-travel bike that doesn't pedal like one, and you're not bothered by the imbalanced feel of the RockShox Psylo fork, it's hard to argue with the VT's value, great geometry and handling and (mostly) solid parts spec.

    Pros: It's a Giant (great value and geometry); the Swinger shock, the Swinger shock, the Swinger shock
    Cons: Fork's performance deficiencies more noticeable with this shock
    Ideal Buyer: You're a tech-savvy XC rider looking for rear suspension that does more than just go up and down.
    Weight: 30.2 lbs.
    Sizes: 16.5, 18.5 (tested), 20.5, 22.5 in.

    Article above was taken from Mountain Bike Magazine April 2003.
    Original article appears here.

    Last edited by frankenbike; 01-08-2006 at 04:11 PM. Reason: Cleaned up layout
    I'm an Inbred...29er that is.

  94. #94
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    Thanks!

  95. #95
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    Playing with Photoshop

    VT2

    please visit my gallery for larger images

    hope u like it
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    Last edited by paneristi; 01-16-2006 at 07:22 AM.

  96. #96
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    I bought an 03 VT2 right when they came out in January. I have gotten more into free- riding since and have changed out most of the parts to make it more slack, plush, and beefy. Different wheels/ tires, hub, fork (Jr T), bars/ stem, ect... It does not climb like it used to and the geometry isn't uphill friendly which is ok because I have a seperate bike for XC. Does anyone know how strong this frame is? I have not had any problems (with jumping/ drops) but do not want to find out first hand that it is prone to breaking.

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    In addition to that trailbike shootout that Warp mentioned, MB Action did do a full on review of the VT. I'll look through my old magazine pile to see if that issue is still in there.
    I'm an Inbred...29er that is.

  98. #98
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    Does anyone know what the VT1 frame weighs?

    And do all 1,2 and 3 weigh the same?

    thanks

  99. #99
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    The frames are all the same- the difference was in the compenents used. The only frame that was slightly different is the frame sold as a frameset only- it does not have any numbers on it and has studs for mounting V-brakes on the rear triangle.
    I bike; therefore, I work

  100. #100
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    What does the frames weigh?

    THanks,

    Quote Originally Posted by VT no 1 2 or 3
    The frames are all the same- the difference was in the compenents used. The only frame that was slightly different is the frame sold as a frameset only- it does not have any numbers on it and has studs for mounting V-brakes on the rear triangle.

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