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  1. #1
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    Trance Bearing replacement How To.

    What You'll Need.

    • Hammer
    • Weight or other solid object with sufficient size hole
    • 10-15mm & 7mm threaded rod or very long threaded bolts w/ Wing-Nuts or normal Nuts
    • Washers to fit the threaded rod/bolts and just smaller than the OD of the bearings
    • 9mm Socket and Screw Driver Bit socket


    First up you need to totally disassemble the rear suspension of your bike, for this you'll need 2-5mm Alan Keys and 2 - 8mm Alan Keys. Remove the Release the Rear Derailer cable (it is also advisable to remove the actual Rear Derailer so it doesn't get in the way or add additional weight to the rear triangle while working with it) Rear Brake and cable, chain, rear wheel (you can do this if you flip the bike upsided down on the saddle and handlebar) and crankset and that's it for what needs to come off components wise.

    Next release all the air from the rear shock, then using the 5 & 8mm alan keys remove all the suspension bolts - it is easier to use the screw driver adapter bit and a socket wrench w/ 5mm and 8mm alan keys so you don't have to remember which way tightens and which slackens the bolts and wrisk snapping them by accidentally tightening them.

    Once you have the rear triangle off and the two linkages clean them up from grease etc with a rag so you can properly see what you're doing. Remove the contact washers on the inside of the bearings on both the linkages and rear suspension triangle - clean them and put somewhere safe.
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  2. #2
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    Part two

    Next is the removal of the bearings and despite what you might think it's very easy to do. First up I guess it's easiest to tackle the bigger bearings that reside in the bottom suspension linkage - Place the bottom suspension linkage on the weight - with a cloth over the hole to protect the finish on the linkage. Then using the Screw Driver adapter bit and the right length extension put the smaller end so it sits on the inside of the bearing race start to gently tap the bearing out, get accustomed to keeping the extension and bit straight while gently tapping. Once you've got the stroke down start to apply more force if the bearing hasn't started moving - You want to be careful and get the bearing out as level as possible to minimize the possibilty of ovalizing the bearing retension slot and having play when you install the new bearing and possibly replacemnt of the part.

    Use the same tools to remove the bottom suspension bearings from the rear triangle - you will need a longer extension to reach through from one side of the triangle to the other so that you can reach it with the hammer to give it the loving taps
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    Last edited by LyNx; 11-04-2006 at 06:20 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Part three

    Then follow on and remove the the bearings from the rocker arm linkages using the above technique, but replace the Screw Driver Adapter bit with the 9mm socket. Once again take your time and get accustomed to holding the bit 90 degrees to the bearing to get it out as level as possible. Increase the tapping pressure as needed till the bearing is out.
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  4. #4
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    Part four

    Next is the upper bearings in the rear triangle, for these you will need the 7mm threaded bolt. Push the rod through the triangle, then apply the nut to the rod behind the bearing. Then once again proceed to tap the bearing out, making sure to keep the rod square to the bearing reducing the risk of ovalizing the slot.

    I did not have the threaded bolt when I did it so I show the shorter bolt that I then used a solid piece of metal as an extension through the other bearing, but the threaded rod makes life much easier - I was in a rush and used what was around the house.
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    Last edited by LyNx; 11-04-2006 at 06:19 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Part five

    To press in your new Enduro Bearings you will need the two different size threaded rods - the closer you can get the size of the rod to the actual ID of the bearing the easier it will be to keep the bearing going in straight. Use a small amount of grease around the outside of the bearing and around the inside of the slot.

    Put the threaded rod through the slot with a nut/wing-nut on either side of the part and slowly start to tighten them so the washers press firmly onto the bearing and rear of the linkage/rear triangle - Make sure that the bearing is sitting level/square, then as you tighten the bearing in constantly check to make sure it is going in even on all sides.

    Remember that the bearings only need to be tightened until they stop, don't keep trying to tighten them once you feel them stop unless for some strange reason (not in square to the hole) then you will have to tighten them on the side that requires it and hope that the hole isn't ovalized and /or the bearing damamged - the Enduro MAX bearings are very mugh tighter and sturdier than the normal caged bearings though..

    Reassemble the frame and torque the bolts back, but be careful not to over torque them as they are Hollow Bolts and will snap easily. Also remember to re-check that they are still tight after a ride or two.
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    Last edited by LyNx; 11-04-2006 at 06:11 PM.
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  6. #6
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    As Promised

    Here is the tutorial that I promised I would do for removing and installing new frame bearings for the Trance/Reign. If you have any comments/questions please feel free to post them. Sorry if it isn't as in depth as it could be, but it seemed like it was needed rather now than later and I tried my best at it. I will try to update/re-word it better as time permits and suggestions come in. Also if the images are explanitary enough let me know and I will try for better ones.

    Note you can use either the wong nuts or the plain nuts, but either way you'll eventually end up using a spanner to help finishing tighten the wing nuts as finger strength for all isn't always up to the torque required.

    LyNx

    Attached is the Torque specs for the Reign - would assume they use they same specs as the Trance, but have found no such spec sheet for the Trance to confirm.
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    Last edited by LyNx; 12-12-2006 at 10:10 AM. Reason: Updated Torque Specs to include Newton Meters (N-m)
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  7. #7
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    Good Intstruction...

    This should be VERY helpful to those who are bound to have issues with their suspension. That is to say anyone whose bike doesn't sit in the garage!!
    "Mach-S, the speed at which stress can't keep up, is simply forward motion. But it has to be self- propelled. Note that people in cars are still stressed." Jef Mallett

  8. #8
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    You are the Speedub.Nate of the Giant board. Great job

  9. #9
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    Get a hand model or something next time
    Great info, very ingenious methods. Thanks!

  10. #10
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    Good job! Special thanks to Speedub.Nate

    That's a huge compliment to me, Thanks and to be fair I just took Speeddub.nate's tool for headset pressing (the threaded rod) and used it for pressing the bearings - cause that's all the headset is and it works great. Actually I wanted to do a animated GIF of installing the bearings - like Nate's -, but alas I had already installed them so it would have meant removing and re-installing them and I didn't feel like tempting fate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggis
    You are the Speedub.Nate of the Giant board. Great job
    What are you trying to say? You don't like my man sized, hairy hands LMAO
    Quote Originally Posted by Benno
    Get a hand model or something next time
    Great info, very ingenious methods. Thanks!
    Thanks for the feedback guys any suggestions are more than wlecome - it's been a while since I've done stuff like this so I'm a bit rusty with the ol' writtin skills.
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  11. #11
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    WOW - Great Info, Lynx.

  12. #12
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    LyNx is da man!!!

    Thanks
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  13. #13
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    Serious Props go out to Lynx!!

    Thanks a ton for that. I'm ordering Enduro bearings in anticipation of needing them sooner than later for my '05 and really appreciate that. I also have a "speedub Nate" headset press so this makes perfect sense.

    BTW, just got out on my Reign for a couple of rides last week and LOVE it so far. Pics and full reviews to follow once I get the suspension dialed and get it out for more rides. Really looking forward to riding a bike with a different suspension than my other bikes.

    Cheers,
    EBX

  14. #14
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    fantastic work!

  15. #15
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    Bumping up this thread to request that a moderator make this a sticky, please.

    I'm also bumping this up because my non-drive side rocker/seat stay pivot is messed up in a big way. The race came out attached to the pivot bolt and there were only 3 balls left in the bearing. What happened to the others? Ground into dust?

    Now I'm concerned that the frame could be damaged. I don't know if I should contact Giant as see what they'll do for me, or just replace all the bearings and hope that the bearing retention slot hasn't been damaged (the bike has just started to creak). I just don't want Giant to say I damaged it when I replaced the bearings..... Oh and Performance (where I bought the bike) no longer carries Giant.

    And to make matters worse I'm heading to Fruita in a week and a 1/2 and I've gotta have the bike fixed & tested by then.

    I think I'll just fix it myself, but I'd be interested to hear what Giant has done for others when their 05' bearings have failed.
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  16. #16
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    Similar thing happened to my mate's frame. I don't think the bearing seat gets damaged cos it's protected by the outer race. It's pretty easy to tell when the bearing goes eh? The whole rear end starts to flex all over the place. The trick is removing the race without causing any damage. (Tomorrow night's task - will let you know how it goes).

    Edit:
    Dismantled the rear triangle and found the spacer that goes between the linkage and the bearing seat had been deformed by hammering on the bearing seat and munted the frame in the process. The RHS bearing was rough but still intact, but the same thing had started to happen to the spacer & frame. Frame is only 10 months old and well maintained, as soon as the bearing collapsed the guy stopped riding it. Hopefully Giant will replace the rear triangle.

    The bearings in the centre of the linkage were rough but had no play. The big bearings in the lower swing-link were in perfect nick. The driveside Raceface X-type bearing was rough and the other side was fine.

    Moral of the story: replace the upper bearings in the rear triangle with Enduro Max from Chris sooner rather than later, (and keep a close eye on them thereafter)http://www.enduroforkseals.com/id56.html.
    Last edited by Haggis; 11-13-2006 at 02:22 AM.

  17. #17
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    Quick question. I have a trance 2 (06 model) and its been making noise at high torque. If if push the pedal down (while holding the bike stationary) with my hand I he ar a click noise. While riding I can hear noises only at high torque. At the shop he tightened some bolts and told me to expect some noises, that it cant be totally quiet. The thing is that i am pretty new to biking and have no clue whats going on, or whether it is acceptable or not. Could this be a bearing issue?

  18. #18
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    This is really a matter for another thread, let's keep Lynx's damn fine thread on-topic.

    I think the noise is probably crank/bb or bb/frame interface. Liberal coating of anti-seize grease and correct torque should sort it. Of course it could also be seat-post/frame, QR/frame, frame/wheel QR, pedals/crank or headset/stem/bars. Grease and tighten intelligently - (not brutally OR insufficiently). Or, take it to another shop if your lazy mechanic won't sort it for you.

  19. #19
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    Can anyone confirm that the picture is correctly labeled?

    I'm assuming that the part labeled "frame" is physically part of the rear triangle. Or is it part of the bearing?

    Because if it is part of the rear triangle, then I don't see how I'm going to remove the remainder of the existing bearing (outer race/bearing cage) as it has to be pressed out towards the camera/viewer.

    {edit} Never mind, I see that it's actually a spacer that sits between the rocker and the bearing
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    Last edited by Steve71; 11-13-2006 at 11:26 AM.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve71
    Because if it is part of the rear triangle, then I don't see how I'm going to remove the remainder of the existing bearing (outer race/bearing cage) as it has to be pressed out towards the camera/viewer.

    {edit} Never mind, I see that it's actually a spacer that sits between the rocker and the bearing
    There's a lip on the inside of the outer race you can use to extract it. Take it to an engineer or make a tool.
    Have you had a look at the spacer & reverse side of the rear triangle? Mashed?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggis
    There's a lip on the inside of the outer race you can use to extract it. Take it to an engineer or make a tool.
    Have you had a look at the spacer & reverse side of the rear triangle? Mashed?
    The spacer on the defective bearing side will need to be replaced as the edge is no longer flat the whole way around.

    I ended up taking the bike into a Giant dealer and they are going to replace the bearings with the enduros. Hopefully the frame isn't damaged at all, but I'm concerned enough that I though it best to have Giant do it. Cost is going to be about $60-70 for labor.

    BTW Giant denied any inferiority with the 05 bearing spec and said don't believe what you read on MTBR.com
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  22. #22
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    Update:

    Well the shop called today to tell me my rear triangle has ovalised at the failed bearing.

    The Giant rep is coming out on Monday to see if they will warrant it. Hopefully all will go well and I'll still be able to get the bike back together to hit Moab/Fruita.

    I really hope Giant stands behind their warranty, as the damage to the frame is a direct result of a bad bearing. The frame is only one year only, I'm only 150lb and I've never broken a frame in my life (this is my 6th frame in 14 years of riding).
    Happiness is a warm 2 stroke.

  23. #23
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    Bad luck Steve. Mate's frame is the same and Giant is looking at it now... They better stump up, those two top rear-triangle bearings are undersized for the application. That's all there is to it.

    My bike is exactly same age as his, and ridden just as hard if not harder, but the top rear triangle bearings/spacers/frame are fine. When the bike was new; I pulled the bearing seals off, cleaned out the stock grease with solvent, brush & compresser and regreased with marine wheel-bearing grease. Really does increase their life.

    Pulled the frame apart this morning to replace the top rear triangle bearings with Enduros. (Better sooner than later with those two). The others are still mint.

  24. #24
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    So any word on your mates bike Haggis, did GIANT take care of him? Keep us updated as GIANT really seems to be stepping up to it and replacing the bearings, not 100% on if they're actually owning up on the speccing of those crappy bearings but at least they seem to be warrantying the stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haggis
    Bad luck Steve. Mate's frame is the same and Giant is looking at it now... They better stump up, those two top rear-triangle bearings are undersized for the application. That's all there is to it.

    Pulled the frame apart this morning to replace the top rear triangle bearings with Enduros. (Better sooner than later with those two). The others are still mint.
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    Did mine today, it was pretty hard (!). My bearings were well and truely stuck in, got them out in the end.... Hard to get the others back in as they wouldn't go straight! But it's all good, feels VERY smooth now, i had 3 bad ones

    Aaron

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    Hey Trance gurus - Steve71 and Haggis in particular,
    Just wondering if you think this frame has the same problem you're talking about, and might need rear triangle replacing? Or maybe it's not too bad? Photo at:
    [dull close up of scratched paint removed]
    The guy has had bearings replaced by a shop, and you think they'd say if it was no good?
    I'm looking at buying the frame used, but if it needs a new triangle this might not be a good idea?!
    Cheers
    Ben

    UPDATE: It was just scratched up paint due to rough handling/nasty hack job as suggested below :-)
    Last edited by sqwheeler; 12-04-2006 at 02:21 AM.

  27. #27
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    Rear Triangle

    Quote Originally Posted by sqwheeler
    Hey Trance gurus - Steve71 and Haggis in particular,
    Just wondering if you think this frame has the same problem you're talking about, and might need rear triangle replacing? Or maybe it's not too bad? Photo at:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/joandben/308653672/
    The guy has had bearings replaced by a shop, and you think they'd say if it was no good?
    I'm looking at buying the frame used, but if it needs a new triangle this might not be a good idea?!
    Cheers
    Ben
    Mine was about the same, maybe not quite as worn, but the seat for the bearing is inside and there was essentially no damage there. The head of the pivot wore and caused the damage but it had no effect on the function. It is prolly fine IMO. And by the way, Giant sent me a new rear triangle, but I used my old one. Been riding it 3-4 weeks now with no problems. Only other trouble is a worn bushing in the upper shock pivot. Parts coming for that.
    "Mach-S, the speed at which stress can't keep up, is simply forward motion. But it has to be self- propelled. Note that people in cars are still stressed." Jef Mallett

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sqwheeler
    Hey Trance gurus - Steve71 and Haggis in particular,
    Just wondering if you think this frame has the same problem you're talking about, and might need rear triangle replacing? Or maybe it's not too bad? Photo at:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/joandben/308653672/
    The guy has had bearings replaced by a shop, and you think they'd say if it was no good?
    I'm looking at buying the frame used, but if it needs a new triangle this might not be a good idea?!
    Cheers
    Ben
    Nope, not the same. You can't actually see the ovalising as it happens behind the frame. When the bearings collapse the spacer which is between the bearing and the linkage plate hammers on the bearing seat.
    Eventually you might see it from the outside when the pivot bolt slogs out the entire hole, but it's the smaller hole which forms the seat which gets slogged out first.
    You can easily see movement in the pivot when the bearing collapses. (STOP riding).

    Your pic seems to show rough handling during the bearing replacement.

  29. #29
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    Well, what can i say!?! Very helpful!!!

    Kudos to LyNx!!!

    A shoutout, "Ambassador of Giant"!

  30. #30
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    Was gona say it looked like a nasty hack job on the install, but your terminology is more politically correct
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggis
    .....Your pic seems to show rough handling during the bearing replacement.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  31. #31
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    Thanks for your comments...I'll go and take a look and not doubt end up poorer than when I went :-)

    UPDATE: Yup, now have less cash, more frame. Building up to be done...
    Last edited by sqwheeler; 12-04-2006 at 02:22 AM.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    So any word on your mates bike Haggis, did GIANT take care of him? Keep us updated as GIANT really seems to be stepping up to it and replacing the bearings, not 100% on if they're actually owning up on the speccing of those crappy bearings but at least they seem to be warrantying the stuff.
    Giant NZ is replacing the rear triangle but it's taken a month and still no ETA so they sent the damaged one back with a new bearing to keep him going.
    Last edited by Haggis; 12-15-2006 at 06:07 PM.

  33. #33
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    Thanks for inspiring me to do this and taking the time for the tutorial. I changed out my bearings with the Enduro Max bearings the other day. I am giving the bike a complete servicing (rebuilding the shock, repacking wheel bearings & headset, etc), so I haven't put it back together yet to give it a try.

    Here is one issue I had with those pesky little bearings on the top of the rear triangle. As it turns out, the press was too tight. While on the bike, those little bearings did not rotate and I thought they were frozen. However, outside of their holes they rotated ( very "clunky" with obvious dimples inside the bearing on the races). As I pressed in the new bearings, I noticed that they did not rotate either while halfway through the operation. As it turns out, there was too much of a press interference. I removed the bearing, lightly sanded the inner aluminum surface (LIGHTLY!) and the bearing pressed in very nicely after that. The bearing now rotates as it should. As it was, those bearings were acting like a bushing -- probably since assembly.

    Thank you again.

  34. #34
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    Trance Bearings

    Are the Trance bearing problems limited to the 05 models? I have an 06 Trance and wonder if they use different bearings after all the problems with the 05's.

    Thanks for taking the time to do this. Very helpful.

  35. #35
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    Giant specified the wrong type of bearing in 05 for these applications. They should have used full compliment bearings from the start (high ball count because they do not rotate much). They used caged bearings with less balls, which are designed for higher rotation applications.

    But, from talking with the LBS owner, his 06 Trance needed a bearing replacement, too. However, he beats the hell out of the thing and his sponsored racer used his Trance when her Anthem was out of commision (very muddy year, here).

    Disassembly of the bike is pretty easy, so it is not hard to check. I suggest that you take the rear triangle off and feel how the bearings rotate. If the bearings don't rotate easiler or they feel "clunky" (like a ratcheting-type feel), chances are you probably need new bearings. The worst two locations on my bike were on the rear triangle -- the lower large bearing set and the upper small bearing set.

    While the bike is apart, you might as well clean her up, re-lube everything and make her look & feel nice. After replacing my bearings & rebuilding my shock, she runs like a dream again.

    Have fun!

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Here is the tutorial that I promised I would do for removing and installing new frame bearings for the Trance/Reign. If you have any comments/questions please feel free to post them. Sorry if it isn't as in depth as it could be, but it seemed like it was needed rather now than later and I tried my best at it. I will try to update/re-word it better as time permits and suggestions come in. Also if the images are explanitary enough let me know and I will try for better ones.

    Note you can use either the wong nuts or the plain nuts, but either way you'll eventually end up using a spanner to help finishing tighten the wing nuts as finger strength for all isn't always up to the torque required.

    LyNx

    Attached is the Torque specs for the Reign - would assume they use they same specs as the Trance, but have found no such spec sheet for the Trance to confirm.

    i just bought a torque wrench that has ft/lb's, is it just a matter of dividing the above by 12?

    G

  37. #37
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    Yep, just take the torque values presented on the diagram in in-lb and divide by 12 to get ft-lb.

  38. #38
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    Yup Joe's right as far as Lenard Zinn says - strange how FT lbs can be lower than Newton Meters

    Quote Originally Posted by Allamuchy Joe
    Yep, just take the torque values presented on the diagram in in-lb and divide by 12 to get ft-lb.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  39. #39
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    Question on spacer orientation during bearing replace

    I've begun the process - going ok except that as I disconnected the first linkage, the spacers fell out and I'm unable to determine what their orientation should be when I replace them.

    This is for the chainstay pivot (#4 from the torque diagram). There's a side to the spacer that has a smaller OD, and a side with a larger OD. How should they be oriented - as in the first photo or the second photo below?
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  40. #40
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    Ever one to look a gift horse in the mouth... what would be really handy is if it could be put together as a PDF so it can be downloaded and printed. Enduro doesn't have pictorial instructions on their site for the suspension bearings, maybe they'd swap you some product for packaging the instructions so they could use them.

  41. #41
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    That's funny - the email receipt I received from Enduro included a link to this thread!

    Now, back to my previous question on spacer orientation...

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by swoodbrn
    That's funny - the email receipt I received from Enduro included a link to this thread!

    Now, back to my previous question on spacer orientation...
    The side with the smaller OD faces the bearing like in Picture #2.

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    Houston, um,...ah...

    Yes, perhaps a little problem here. I managed to insert the new Enduro bearings, with what I had believed to be no major problems, e.g., none getting too off-kilter or jamming during the process. Unfortunately, I'm now getting a very displeasing crackling noise and rather rough feel from 7 of 8 of them, as I rotate them with my fingers. My suspicion is that this is not good.

    Anyone familiar with these bearings ready to tell me not to worry, this is all good, just part of the "cracklin' goodness" of the bearings?
    Last edited by swoodbrn; 01-09-2007 at 10:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swoodbrn
    Yes, perhaps a little problem here. I managed to insert the new Enduro bearings, with what I had believed to be no major problems, e.g., none getting too off-kilter or jamming during the process. Unfortunately, I'm now getting a very displeasing crackling noise and rather rough feel from 7 of 8 of them, as I rotate them with my fingers. My suspicion is that this is not good.

    Anyone familiar with these bearings ready to tell me not to worry, this is all good, just part of the "cracklin' goodness" of the bearings?
    Did you press them in with bolts and washers pushing on the outer race? Washers have to be sized just right to press on the outer race but not catch the frame. If the washers are too small the force goes on the inner race and seals which may damage the bearing. I had trouble finding the right size washers for the 1910 bearings and resorted to 'turning' the washer down by running it on a 10mm bolt on a power-grinder. Worked perfectly.
    Last edited by Haggis; 01-10-2007 at 03:07 AM.

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    Yes, I had the washers pushing on the outer races. I'm taking from this that when you were done, you had no crackling noises or rough movement?

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    Yes, I had the washers pushing on the outer races. I'm taking from this that when you were done, you had no crackling noises or rough movement?

    I guess it's irrelevant, as I'm not replacing them again (at least, not now). Looks like I'm gonna "ride 'em out", checking frequently for movement that could damage the frame seats and/or reduce performance.
    Last edited by swoodbrn; 01-10-2007 at 07:27 AM.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by swoodbrn
    Yes, I had the washers pushing on the outer races. I'm taking from this that when you were done, you had no crackling noises or rough movement?
    No, Enduros were smooth. Haven't replaced the bigger bearings yet as they were still mint.

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    [QUOTE=swoodbrn]Yes, I had the washers pushing on the outer races. I'm taking from this that when you were done, you had no crackling noises or rough movement?
    QUOTE]

    One thing I noticed when I replaced the little bearings on the rear triangle -- they were in their pockets too tight. The interference fit was too much and the bearings didn't want to rotate at all once pressed in. What I did was press them out again, LIGHTLY sand the inner surface of the pocket and re-press them in. They work very well now.

  49. #49
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    Hmm. The worst ones for me are the big ones on the rear triangle (chainstay pivot). I'm a little scared I would do more damage to them getting them out than leaving them in. What did you sand with?

  50. #50
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    Swoodbrn sorry to hear you're having so much trouble with the bearings, my install went smooth but like Joe I also found the small top bearings in the triangle were tight ans MAYBE the rocker bearing seats one might be slightly ovaled. Bearings were smooth as silk when I installed them. Have you checked that they are completely seated into the recess? Did you check how the bearings felt before you installed them? Maybe consider taking off the seals and seeing if anything is amiss in there.

    Please let us know how it goes as I haven't heard of any others having trouble with the install.

    As to the PDFing of this How To, I may well look into doing it in the future.
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  51. #51
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    Thanks for the concern. I actually just reseated the triangle bearings after some sanding of the recesses, and they're STILL "clicky" - maybe a little bit better, but really, not much. Yes, they were completely seated into the recesses, both times, and yes, they were smooth prior to install, both times. After sanding, they definitely went in easier, but still snuggly. I can't imagine you'd want them to slide in any easier than they did this time. Now that it's fully assembled, I don't hear any clicking, or detect any resistance as I move it through the travel now, but then, I doubt I would. Enough of all this - it's time to ride, and I'll just have to be very vigilant.

    What's sad is that the previous ones weren't really that bad off - just rusted and lacking lube. Perhaps they would have gone south fast.
    Last edited by swoodbrn; 01-11-2007 at 11:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swoodbrn
    I've begun the process - going ok except that as I disconnected the first linkage, the spacers fell out and I'm unable to determine what their orientation should be when I replace them.

    This is for the chainstay pivot (#4 from the torque diagram). There's a side to the spacer that has a smaller OD, and a side with a larger OD. How should they be oriented - as in the first photo or the second photo below?


    I have replaced my bearings with the spacers orientated like picture #1. Very smooth ride so far.

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    I'd change them 'round.

    If it were me, since the spacer is designed specifically that way for a reason. The smaller side runs on the inner race of the bearing and the fatter part is what makes contact with the rocker arm - more surface area=better . IMHO

    Quote Originally Posted by milker
    I have replaced my bearings with the spacers orientated like picture #1. Very smooth ride so far.
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    Sounds OK

    Once you're not hearing any clicking or sqeaking or some such I'd say go ride. Damn even if they aren't perfect, they really aren't an expensive replacement part are they Maybe you just have really tight bearing seats/slots. Just ride it and recheck that everything still feels right after a few good rides.

    Quote Originally Posted by swoodbrn
    Thanks for the concern. I actually just reseated the triangle bearings after some sanding of the recesses, and they're STILL "clicky" - maybe a little bit better, but really, not much. ................ Now that it's fully assembled, I don't hear any clicking, or detect any resistance as I move it through the travel now, but then, I doubt I would. Enough of all this - it's time to ride, and I'll just have to be very vigilant.

    What's sad is that the previous ones weren't really that bad off - just rusted and lacking lube. Perhaps they would have gone south fast.
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    Just great, now i have to open it again!

    Thanks.

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    I guess they ARE better...

    As I said, the original bearings didn't seem THAT bad when I got them out. However, during my first test ride, I noticed the ride is much softer. Given the same air pressure (main and SPV in the Swinger), I've now got a full 3-4 mm more sag. Anyone else seen this kind of difference?

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    Got your Answer

    Well I guess that answers your question right there. If you have the shock setup exactly as you did before and yet get more SAG with identical settings I'd say that the original bearings were definitely worse than you thought and now the Full Compliment type are allowing the suspension to work proerly. Try adjusting pressures to get back to proper SAG and see how it feels.

    Quote Originally Posted by swoodbrn
    As I said, the original bearings didn't seem THAT bad when I got them out. However, during my first test ride, I noticed the ride is much softer. Given the same air pressure (main and SPV in the Swinger), I've now got a full 3-4 mm more sag. Anyone else seen this kind of difference?
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    Not sure if there's still people buying '05's anymore, but I thought that I'd maybe resurface this thread in case a few missed it. Hopefully all have managed to either replace the bearings them selves or had them replaced under warranty by GIANT.
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    Bearing identification?

    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Not sure if there's still people buying '05's anymore, but I thought that I'd maybe resurface this thread in case a few missed it. Hopefully all have managed to either replace the bearings them selves or had them replaced under warranty by GIANT.
    Thanks - just reminded me I wanted to check this out and see what you guys think. The used 05 frame I recently bought had developed play, and the guy had had a bike shop replace the bearings. However, for some reason they didn't replace everything - one of the big pivot/bearing sets came zip tied to the frame, and one old one is obviously still in the bike! This makes me think of two things:
    1) Should I install the remaining new bearing/pivot set anyway?
    2) Is there any way to check that the new bearings installed were of the revised variety? The one that's yet to be installed carries the letters 'NBK - 6902-2RS' on the seal. I could prise open the seal, but that may not be wise?

    Cheers!
    Ben

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    Bingo....

    ..............that's exactly what you've got to do, and the easiest and most accurate way to confirm what's in there.

    Quote Originally Posted by sqwheeler
    . I could prise open the seal, but that may not be wise?

    Cheers!
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    Durn it

    Yup, caged bearings, I guess they all have to come out again!

  62. #62
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    Sorry to hear, good luck with the change out.

    Quote Originally Posted by sqwheeler
    Yup, caged bearings, I guess they all have to come out again!
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  63. #63
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    Seat stay pivot appears ovalized; warranty?

    Once I removed the seat stay pivot bolt the inner race with smashed bearings came out with it. The bolt was not tight, at all. Now that I have read the entirety of this fine thread, Iím wondering if the seat stay pivot has ovalized. I can see that the top of the bolt was pressed into the exterior of the pivot seat. Does this mean that the entire seat has ovalized? I already ordered replacement bearings from Enduro; to know for sure if its ovalized do I need to remove the outer race and attempt to replace with the new bearings? ...if it functions properly is the pivot seat OK, and if it doesn't, does that mean it has ovalized?

    I bought this bike used over a year ago...do you think Giant will warranty the rear triangle if the pivot seat has ovalized?

  64. #64
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    I think that pretty much sums it up, warranty is only to the original purchaser. As to if the seat is ovalized only way to find out is to remove the old bearing copletely.
    Quote Originally Posted by riderup31
    .............I bought this bike used over a year ago...do you think Giant will warranty the rear triangle if the pivot seat has ovalized?
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    Thanks, Lynx. This afternoon, I went to the local shop mechanic I respect with the rear triangle and he agreed to just try it out...I hope it works!

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    The outer race is still inside the pivot seat, any sugestions on how to get it out?

  67. #67
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    Browse back through this thread, there are a few suggestions as I remember about this - quite a few people suffered this. Just remember lots of patience and if you still have trouble come back and ask or see if your shop will help you out.

    Quote Originally Posted by riderup31
    The outer race is still inside the pivot seat, any sugestions on how to get it out?
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    thanks Lynx. I took it to a bike shop, I just heard back and they had to cut the race out. They said the pivot seats are good.

    Way to go on starting this thread!

  69. #69
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    Well when you really like something you tend to want to overlook the small imperfections and also try to help people overlook/fix them. Sadly I hope someone else will step up to the job once I "move on" - but I think it's mainly covered as far as the Trance goes now.

    Quote Originally Posted by riderup31
    thanks Lynx. I took it to a bike shop, I just heard back and they had to cut the race out. They said the pivot seats are good.

    Way to go on starting this thread!
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    bolt torque specs on re assembly

    Two questions. I am ready to put the frame back together after installing the max bearings. First. Is the blue stuff on the bolts anti seeze or lock tite?? Second, how tight should all of the bolts be. If any one sees this, please post and answer or pm me at rbmatl.

    Thank you

  71. #71
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    Read the thread............

    .......................it's all there.
    Quote Originally Posted by RBMATL
    Two questions. I am ready to put the frame back together after installing the max bearings. First. Is the blue stuff on the bolts anti seeze or lock tite?? Second, how tight should all of the bolts be. If any one sees this, please post and answer or pm me at rbmatl.

    Thank you
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    Failed upper pivot bearing removal tool.

    Hi all this is my first post and I thank all for this informative post which has made my bearing change out so much easier.

    I had the L/H/S upper bearing fail on my Reign 05' and had to overcome the problem of the outer shell being stuck in the triangle. Not wanting to use a screw driver or punch I called around LBS's and got '"never done it" to " $60/hour to grind it out" responses. Also one place said the Giant official "bearing puller kit" was useless in this situation. Interestingly over the phone, Giant denied any problems with Maestro pivot bearings. ( wish I had read this post before the call).

    The solution I found was a "blind hole bearing puller" attachment for a slide hammer. I just happened to have an old home made slide hammer at home which I had made about 15 odd years ago. Basically a heavy weight on a steel rod. I sourced the tool from Autotools in Victoria, Australia. Great service from Mark over the phone.

    Can't attach pic so here is the link.

    http://www.autotools.com.au/catalogu...hp/10/460/1983

    Cost was $62 aussie and it was delivered the next day with express post.

    Great thing is the slightly raised end that goes into the bearing cage fits perfectly into the ball groove. The triangle was mounted in a vice and the jaws lined with old inner tubes. IMO the result was perfect ,a quick even, effortless extraction whilst reducing the chance of damage to me or the triangle.

    Also you could use a socket extention bar or a small rod from the other side of the triangle and tap on the tool directly if you dont have a slide hammer and/or dont want to spend the extra cash.

    The bearing came out so smoothly that if I need to do this job again I will try to do it in situ, to save time and having to pull the triangle off the bike. Might be a 2 man job in situ ?? Probably more chance of damaging the triangle though.

    Hope this info is useful for some...

  73. #73
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    where could i buy an enduro bearing kit? is it something my lbs would have or could somebody give me a link to a place online? its for an 05 trance 4 if it matters.

  74. #74
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    I feel like I post this link every couple of weeks.


    http://www.enduroforkseals.com/id55.html
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  75. #75
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    Thanks for info.

    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Here is the tutorial that I promised I would do for removing and installing new frame bearings for the Trance/Reign. If you have any comments/questions please feel free to post them. Sorry if it isn't as in depth as it could be, but it seemed like it was needed rather now than later and I tried my best at it. I will try to update/re-word it better as time permits and suggestions come in. Also if the images are explanitary enough let me know and I will try for better ones.

    Note you can use either the wong nuts or the plain nuts, but either way you'll eventually end up using a spanner to help finishing tighten the wing nuts as finger strength for all isn't always up to the torque required.

    LyNx

    Attached is the Torque specs for the Reign - would assume they use they same specs as the Trance, but have found no such spec sheet for the Trance to confirm.

    LyNx, thanks for the great tutorial. I took my whole rear apart, regreased, retorqued, treadlocked the treads now no creaking. Where and when should I get these enduro bearings? I have a 06 trance with 200 miles on it. Also, have you seen this file for 05 trance? It's great.

    http://sykkel.no/teknisk/Trance.pdf

  76. #76
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    Sorry for the late reply, I have been enjoying the beauty and riding of CO. The 2006 Trance and on came with the correctly spec'd full compliment bearings and as such you should have no problems with them.
    Thanks for the PDF, neve seen it before.

    FYI in case no one knew, I am no longer a Trance rider I have switched to a Niner RIP9 owing tyo the larger, sweeter wheels and longer TT/size of the XL frame.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2fst4u
    LyNx, thanks for the great tutorial. I took my whole rear apart, regreased, retorqued, treadlocked the treads now no creaking. Where and when should I get these enduro bearings? I have a 06 trance with 200 miles on it. Also, have you seen this file for 05 trance? It's great.

    http://sykkel.no/teknisk/Trance.pdf
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  77. #77
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    Co!

    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Sorry for the late reply, I have been enjoying the beauty and riding of CO. The 2006 Trance and on came with the correctly spec'd full compliment bearings and as such you should have no problems with them.
    Thanks for the PDF, neve seen it before.

    FYI in case no one knew, I am no longer a Trance rider I have switched to a Niner RIP9 owing tyo the larger, sweeter wheels and longer TT/size of the XL frame.
    In CO? thats my back yard bro!! where have you been so far. I'm not going to ask if you liked it because I know you did, the trails and community here are great!!

  78. #78
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    I was in Ft. Collins first and got to ride, BlueSky, Devil's Backbone, Young's Gulch and trails along the damn. Excellent riding for sure, had a fantastic time, the new RIP9 really shone The guys I met and rode with were great, skills way above mine but I picked up the tech stuff fairly fast not wanting to get left to far behind. Definitely will be heading that way in the very near future. Also was in Golden and did some riding out west of there in Golden Gate Park - did Mtn Lion Trail, I believe it was and then went further west past Evergreen and did another trail and Hall's Ranch on the way down from Ft. Collins to Golden..

    Then I went to Leadville, but that was mainly only painful pre-riding the course for the race - couldn't get oxygen to the legs to spin granny and it was a bit steep and loose to push the middle ring. Also went to Laramie to do the Enduro 100k and those trails were loads of fun, will be doing that race for sure in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2fst4u
    In CO? thats my back yard bro!! where have you been so far. I'm not going to ask if you liked it because I know you did, the trails and community here are great!!
    Last edited by LyNx; 08-20-2007 at 09:09 AM.
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  79. #79
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    Good

    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    I was in Ft. Collins first and got to ride, BlueSky, Devil's Backbone, Young's Gulch and trails along the damn. Excellent riding for sure, had a fantastic time, the new RIP9 really shone The guys I met and rode with were great, skills way above mine but I picked up the tech stuff fairly fast not wanting to get left to far behind. Definitely will be heading that way in the very near future. Also was in Golden and did some riding out west of there in Golden Gate Park - did Mtn Lion Trail, I believe it was and then went further west past Evergreen and did another trail and Hall's Ranch on the way down from Ft. Collins to Golden..

    Then I went to Leadville, but that was mainly only painful pre-riding the course for the race - couldn't get oxygen to the legs to spin granny and it was a bit steep and loose to push the middle ring. Also went to Laramie to do the Enduro 100k and those trails were loads of fun, will be doing that race for sure in the future.

    Gosh, sounds like you were busy, good job on the race and rides!

  80. #80
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    Green Loctite on Bearing seats?

    Great how to!

    Got the bearings on order, going to do the swap next week.

    One question though; On some other bearing replacement instructions I have read from other manufacturers, they say to use green loctite on the bearing seats before pressing them in, not grease? What made you go with grease in this case?

    Thanks,

    Darren

  81. #81
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    I guess for several reasons.......
    1 - my bro who is into cars, mechanics etc told me to use a very little bit of grease
    2 - I found nothing resembling loctite on the outside of the bearing or in the slot.

    Quote Originally Posted by dmac
    Great how to!

    Got the bearings on order, going to do the swap next week.

    One question though; On some other bearing replacement instructions I have read from other manufacturers, they say to use green loctite on the bearing seats before pressing them in, not grease? What made you go with grease in this case?

    Thanks,

    Darren
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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmac
    Great how to!

    Got the bearings on order, going to do the swap next week.

    One question though; On some other bearing replacement instructions I have read from other manufacturers, they say to use green loctite on the bearing seats before pressing them in, not grease? What made you go with grease in this case?

    Thanks,

    Darren
    Interesting, I was about to say you would never want to use Loctite when press fitting bearings, but I guess some mfgf'ers do use it: http://www.santacruz-pl.com/strony/o...pfree_tech.pdf

  83. #83
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    I also saw some from Titus as well... I'm going to go ahead and use the loctite 641 (if I can find it) or go with good old loctite blue.

    The bearing seats are very tight on this frame, so my only reason for going with any loctite at all is to stop any potential bearing movement in the seat and subsiquent creaking.

    I'll update with how it works after it's done.

    Cheers,

    Darren

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    Hi guys, need some help.
    I have a 2005 Trance 4. Im gonna get new bearings for the pivot.
    Can u guys post the Bearing Numbers so i can purchase the right one's, I believe there's 8 of them?

    Thanks a lot
    Last edited by an0nymous; 10-05-2007 at 05:24 AM.

  85. #85
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    Enduro already has the numbers and a kit made up. Check their web site and order a set easy as pie. www.enduroforkseals.com

    Quote Originally Posted by an0nymous
    Hi guys, need some help.
    I have a 2005 Trance 4. Im gonna get new bearings for the pivot.
    Can u guys post the Bearing Numbers so i can purchase the right one's, I believe there's 8 of them?

    Thanks a lot
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  86. #86
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    Hi Lynx
    Yeah ive been to enduroforkseals.com but they dont List the Bearing Numbers in the Trance kit. I will not be able to get the Enduro bearings as delivery fees would be expensive to my country. Im thinking of getting other manufacturers bearings such as NTN bearings that is available here.

    I will place the order thru my LBS for the bearings, so i need the Bearings numbers. I think i should open up the pivots to check the numbers but if u guys can give me the numbers it would be better and after i've confirmed that they are available, only i will strip the bike apart.

    If its convenient could u give me the numbers Lynx? Thanks a bunch.

  87. #87
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    Sorry

    Don't have that info at hand. Curious where you live that the shipping could be that much? I live in the Caribbean and it wasn't a lot to get them to me USPS. Checked your profile, Singapore. As far as I remember reading there was an Enduro dealer their, maybe they would have the kit. Maybe drop Chris an e-mail for the #s

    Quote Originally Posted by an0nymous
    Hi Lynx
    ........................... I will not be able to get the Enduro bearings as delivery fees would be expensive to my country....................
    If its convenient could u give me the numbers Lynx? Thanks a bunch.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Don't have that info at hand. Curious where you live that the shipping could be that much? I live in the Caribbean and it wasn't a lot to get them to me USPS. Checked your profile, Singapore. As far as I remember reading there was an Enduro dealer their, maybe they would have the kit. Maybe drop Chris an e-mail for the #s
    Oh? They have a dealer in Singapore? I live above Singapore. If theres one in Singapore then it should be easier for me to get them and cheaper too.

    Will i be able to contact Chris thru info@enduroforkseals.com ?

    Thanks

  89. #89
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    Yup and he should be able to tell you if there' a dealer in Singapore.
    Quote Originally Posted by an0nymous
    Oh? They have a dealer in Singapore? I live above Singapore. If theres one in Singapore then it should be easier for me to get them and cheaper too.

    Will i be able to contact Chris thru info@enduroforkseals.com ?

    Thanks
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by an0nymous
    Hi guys, need some help.
    I have a 2005 Trance 4. Im gonna get new bearings for the pivot.
    Can u guys post the Bearing Numbers so i can purchase the right one's, I believe there's 8 of them?

    Thanks a lot

    GIANT Reign and Trance Components

    2 - 6900-2RS
    2 - 63800-2RS
    4 - 6902-2RS

  91. #91
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    Hi guys, sorry has been busy with my studies.
    Finally on holidays now and have sent my bike to get the bearings done.
    Thanks Lynx and cracker666 for your help.

  92. #92
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    Just did this on my reign...worked perfectly.

    Just as a bit of advice, if when pressing the bearings back in it feels harder than usual (assuming you've done one), then they're probably going in skew.
    Nearly all mine did this slightly just as I started pressing them in, just fixed the tilt and they went in smoothly.

    Thanks for this guide!


  93. #93
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    Hi LyNx, it is more than year passed when you have changed bearings.
    Have you checked them now? Are they still ok?
    I have Trance 1 2006 year. I have checked my (but not all, only those in chart numbered 5) and it needs to be replaced. I gues with other will be the same thing. They last for me 4000km.
    So I wonder if your enduro bearings are still ok?

  94. #94
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    To be honest, I no longer ride the Trance so I haven't checked the bearings. Up to the last time I checked them they were OK - stopped riding it in June - switched to a Niner RIP9. Really depends on the conditions you ride in I think and what maintenance you do to your bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delerium
    Hi LyNx, it is more than year passed when you have changed bearings.
    Have you checked them now? Are they still ok?
    I have Trance 1 2006 year. I have checked my (but not all, only those in chart numbered 5) and it needs to be replaced. I gues with other will be the same thing. They last for me 4000km.
    So I wonder if your enduro bearings are still ok?
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  95. #95
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    And what maintenance I should do?
    They are sealed. So what can you do for them? You can't grease or something.
    How many km you have rode before checking them?

  96. #96
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    Yes you can pop the seals off and check that the grease is still in there and replace it it/top it up if it needs it on any bearing to help it last longer. I learnd my lesson and now before I use new bearings or a bike with them I check them to make sure they are packed full of good grease before I even venture out on it/them

    Quote Originally Posted by Delerium
    And what maintenance I should do?
    They are sealed. So what can you do for them? You can't grease or something.
    How many km you have rode before checking them?
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  97. #97
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    How it comes, that buying INDIVIDUAL "MAX" BEARINGS for Trance is cheaper, than buying complete suspension kit? Where is the trick?

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delerium
    How it comes, that buying INDIVIDUAL "MAX" BEARINGS for Trance is cheaper, than buying complete suspension kit? Where is the trick?
    It doesn't seem like a trick to me, but a lot of people don't either have the knowledge or the tools to buy them individually. By simply knowing the bearing model #'s (usually on the seal of the bearing) or the specific sizes (using a micrometer) for each bearing, you can easily order them individually and save a few bucks.

    Cheers,
    EB

  99. #99
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    I also dont have a tool, but there are people, who have. Well, I know only lincage bearings number, but few posts above a man wrote all bearings number.

    GIANT Reign and Trance Components

    2 - 6900-2RS
    2 - 63800-2RS
    4 - 6902-2RS

  100. #100
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    Great tutorial LyNx! Was hoping to put it to the test, but rant into a couple of questions. Hopefully someone is still checking this post...

    Out of curiosity, I called my lbs to check a price on getting the bearings replaced on my '05. Mechanic told me that I'd need some bolts in Giant rebuild kit that are designed for "single use only" and would have to be replaced during the install of new bearings. Can anyone confirm this, or am I getting another sales pitch for Giant's $100+ rebuild kit?

    Lbs mech also mentioned something about replacing bushings as well as bearings. Am I missing something in my suspension somewhere? I thought the pivots all used bearings. Any help is greatly appreciated!

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