Talon owners .....

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  • 09-05-2013
    nomad220
    Thanks for the info on the sun tour exchange program. That looks like something I may do if I have the extra $ laying around. Between kids' sports and new carpet money for a new fork is tight. I just put a cloud 9 saddle on my talon and so far so good. I wasn't hating the stock seat but just wanted to try something different (only $20 at amazon). The wtb rocket 5 does look like a good saddle for a reasonable price. If I didn't get the cloud 9 that was my next choice.
  • 09-09-2013
    pelotoner
    Here is another thing you can try with the fork. I found an slightly used older version Niner steel fork (490mm) for a great price and gave it a try. I dropped nearly 4 lbs off the front of the bike and the handling is precise and predictable now. You do get a little flex in the fork during braking, but it is so much more fluid now going down the single track.
  • 09-10-2013
    chemical_brother
    Sweet find. I've been looking for a rigid steel fork with 15mm QR with few results. Soul Cycles is working on one, On-ONE is sold out at the moment, and the Salsa Cromoto Grande is tough to find is well.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pelotoner View Post
    Here is another thing you can try with the fork. I found an slightly used older version Niner steel fork (490mm) for a great price and gave it a try. I dropped nearly 4 lbs off the front of the bike and the handling is precise and predictable now. You do get a little flex in the fork during braking, but it is so much more fluid now going down the single track.

  • 10-08-2013
    cj_desmit
    I have a 2012 Talon 1. Anyone ditch the 3rd (largest) chainring to turn it into a "ghetto" 2x8 setup? I rarely ever get out of the 2nd ring and want to drop the big ring as I am constantly mashing it on logs and rocks..
  • 10-08-2013
    dirtbyte
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cj_desmit View Post
    I have a 2012 Talon 1. Anyone ditch the 3rd (largest) chainring to turn it into a "ghetto" 2x8 setup? I rarely ever get out of the 2nd ring and want to drop the big ring as I am constantly mashing it on logs and rocks..

    I did this on a 2011 Talon 1 (2x9 - but should be no different on 2x8). I replaced the big ring with a Bash Guard from Home, never once missed that big ring, and the bash guard has protected the middle (now big) ring very well. You also should remove a few links from your chain when you do this.
  • 10-08-2013
    fishwrinkle
    yup no problems & i ended up actually going 1x8 for a hot minute, now she sits as a 1x10. ha, was going to rec a bbg bash but looks like dennis beat me to it. what size mid ring are you going with?
  • 10-08-2013
    dirtbyte
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by fishwrinkle View Post
    yup no problems & i ended up actually going 1x8 for a hot minute, now she sits as a 1x10. ha, was going to rec a bbg bash but looks like dennis beat me to it. what size mid ring are you going with?

    I am building up a new ride from the ground up, and right now the plan is 2x10, but 1x10 does tempt me. On my last few rides I have tried to avoid the small chain ring... But... I can climb and do without it on all the trails I ride, but it forces me to max out on my efforts and then I need to drop down to granny for an active recovery before jumping back up to the big one. I am afraid if I take off the granny I will have to either stop to recover (not my style - don't get me wrong, I do like to stop and take a break to enjoy my surroundings, just not in the middle of a climb), or... gasp, get off and HAB.

    I have already purchased the shifters, but not the front derailleur, so I could save myself $60 or so by not buying a front derailleur...
  • 10-08-2013
    chuckeieio
    I'm going to go with a bash guard on mine if I haven't upgraded to a new bike by the spring. If I'm taking it off I think I'd rather have the guard than nothing in its place. You never know, you still might catch the middle ring after removing the tall.
  • 10-08-2013
    dirtbyte
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by chuckeieio View Post
    I'm going to go with a bash guard on mine if I haven't upgraded to a new bike by the spring. If I'm taking it off I think I'd rather have the guard than nothing in its place. You never know, you still might catch the middle ring after removing the tall.

    Good plan. My bash guard is just bigger than the middle ring, and is is beat to @$#$%! So if it was not on there, it would be my middle ring taking the abuse! Plus if you do not get the bash you will need new chainring bolts that are smaller (made for just 1 ring not 2).
  • 10-08-2013
    cj_desmit
    Awesome, thanks for all the responses guys. I had planned on replacing the largest ring with a bashguard, as well as removing a few links from my chain. What size bashguard did you all go with?

    I'm guessing removal is relatively straight forward? Am I going to have to remove the cranks? Looking at the chainring, there seems to be a plastic plate over the largest ring so I can not access the bolts..
  • 10-08-2013
    dirtbyte
    Pretty sure I got this one: custom 104 36T (the 36 refers to the middle chaining size - so the bash is just bigger than the middle ring. You don't want it un-nescarilly big because then you would be possibly bashing on stuff that you did not need to :)
  • 10-08-2013
    Calvinator0514
    I have the 2012 Talon 1. I love it. I know it's not a performance bike, but I've heard it handles better than the XTC because it has slacker geometry. I recommended it to a friend and he bought it too.

    I hate the fork. I'm looking for a rockshox Reba with straight steerer tube, but I can't figure out what kind of hubs I have. What size are the stock hubs? On a side note, I'm also looking at upgrading to 2x10 and putting on maxxis ardent 2.4 tires (Kenda small block 8 -- why?)
  • 10-08-2013
    dirtbyte
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Calvinator0514 View Post
    I have the 2012 Talon 1. I love it. I know it's not a performance bike, but I've heard it handles better than the XTC because it has slacker geometry. I recommended it to a friend and he bought it too.

    I hate the fork. I'm looking for a rockshox Reba with straight steerer tube, but I can't figure out what kind of hubs I have. What size are the stock hubs? On a side note, I'm also looking at upgrading to 2x10 and putting on maxxis ardent 2.4 tires (Kenda small block 8 -- why?)

    I have the 2011 and it was a 15mm thru axle, but I think they may have changed the 2012 to standard 135mm quick release (the more common one, and easier to find forks for in my experience). Can you post a picture, that would make it really easy to tell you...
  • 10-09-2013
    DiRt DeViL
    Is your axle like this?



    or like this?



    The first one is a 15mm thru axle, the second is a 9mm skewer; believe that the 2012 uses the 9mm.
  • 10-09-2013
    Calvinator0514
    1 Attachment(s)
    Thanks guys. It looks like this:Attachment 837842 so it's a 9mm. So I'm guessing that is the same as a QR9mm? I'm new to this whole forks and components thing.
  • 10-09-2013
    cj_desmit
    Calvin, yes both your axles are 9mm QR. I ran into the same issue when looking for a fork and had a hard time finding a decent one that accepted a 9mm axle. I ended up coming across a good deal on a used Manitou Tower Pro 120 with a 20mm thru axle, so I went ahead and upgraded my wheel set as well to allow the fork to work. I do believe however they make adapter kits that allow different axles to interchange?

    mtbdennis, thanks for the link for the bash guards. Good prices and I always like supporting small businesses.
  • 10-09-2013
    DiRt DeViL
    9mm, QR9 or 9mm QR, for your 2012 Talon.

    There are a few options out there for 29" 9mm axle forks, the Tower is one of them. Don't know if you can convert a 9mm hub to 15mm or 20mm thou, the other way around can be done with adapters.
  • 10-09-2013
    Calvinator0514
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by DiRt DeViL View Post
    9mm, QR9 or 9mm QR, for your 2012 Talon.

    There are a few options out there for 29" 9mm axle forks, the Tower is one of them. Don't know if you can convert a 9mm hub to 15mm or 20mm thou, the other way around can be done with adapters.

    Thanks for the help. I'm finally starting to understand this stuff. I've found some rebas on eBay with a 9mm axle. I call dibs. :cool: That should be a big improvement, considering suntour is locked up and I broke off the lockout switch. Thanks again!
  • 10-09-2013
    Dealwagon
    OK, so Im tired of pinhole flats. Have gel tubes, but still have to air back up after a pinhole. Anyone gone tubeless on a bone stock 2012 Talon 1? This possible? Easy? Worth it?
  • 10-09-2013
    DiRt DeViL
    Search for ghetto tubeless

    Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk now Free
  • 10-09-2013
    dirtbyte
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Dealwagon View Post
    OK, so Im tired of pinhole flats. Have gel tubes, but still have to air back up after a pinhole. Anyone gone tubeless on a bone stock 2012 Talon 1? This possible? Easy? Worth it?

    Easy? Depends on your skill level, I did the Ghetto conversion on my 2011 Talon, took about an hour. Just follow the steps.
    Worth it? WITHOUT A DOUBT! I went from 2-3 flats a month to 1-2 a YEAR.
  • 10-09-2013
    fishwrinkle
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mtbdennis View Post
    I am building up a new ride from the ground up, and right now the plan is 2x10, but 1x10 does tempt me. On my last few rides I have tried to avoid the small chain ring... But... I can climb and do without it on all the trails I ride, but it forces me to max out on my efforts and then I need to drop down to granny for an active recovery before jumping back up to the big one. I am afraid if I take off the granny I will have to either stop to recover (not my style - don't get me wrong, I do like to stop and take a break to enjoy my surroundings, just not in the middle of a climb), or... gasp, get off and HAB.

    I have already purchased the shifters, but not the front derailleur, so I could save myself $60 or so by not buying a front derailleur...

    stick with the 1x and your legs and pride will recover faster than you think. I barely ride my T1 anymore as i'm rocking my N9 gen 2 ss right now & cant wipe that shit eatin grin off my face. ive run through a new set of rapage tires this season on asphalt! thats why the T1 is getting resurrected. 38t 1x10 11/36 w/ zee rd. max'd tooth capacity and love it. right now i hate the bb7 brakes. spent umpteen hours trying to dial those *****es and i have to just wing it. oh she also is now full rigid w/ a voodoo 500 fork. GL and let us know what becomes of your decisions
  • 10-10-2013
    cj_desmit
    Ok, so I stopped by my LBS today and was chatting with one of the mechs about dropping my 3rd ring. He said that the chainring and crank on the 2012 Talons is all one piece? Does this sound right? I looked at my bike again and it does look like the chainring is at least one piece (as in you cannot remove rings). Has anyone actually dropped the 3rd (largest) ring on a 2012 model?
  • 10-10-2013
    dirtbyte
    1 Attachment(s)
    If it looks like this one:

    Attachment 838194

    Then yes, you may be out of luck...

    Time for an upgrade?
  • 10-10-2013
    ProfGumby
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mtbdennis View Post
    If it looks like this one:

    Attachment 838194

    Then yes, you may be out of luck...

    Time for an upgrade?

    Just like on my Rincon. Switched to a crank with 3 individual rings and had to swap out the bottom bracket as the crank I installed was a splined shaft and the Giant bb was square taper. Cheap enough mod and I'm never looking back!

    I am unsure what my next ride will be but the Talon, XTC and Trance are the 3 front runners... Talon is beating the XTC due to the threaded bottom bracket and the Talon looks to have a beefier frame to boot! I can swap forks and cranks and the like easy enough....
  • 10-11-2013
    fishwrinkle
    '12 Talon's use a riveted crankset & you'll need to buy one. look at the slx, they're bombproof for the money and you will shed some serious weight. CRC usually sells em pretty cheap & make sure to get a triple and not a double. if you get a double the spider will not except a bash
  • 10-11-2013
    cj_desmit
    Thanks for the info guys. When I initially looked at my crank I had doubts which is why I originally posted up here. Everything is definitely riveted together.. damn you Giant. The stock drivetrain is pretty trash anyway so I suppose this justifies spending more money on upgrades?! Darn.

    Edit: So after looking at cranksets on a few different websites, there seems to not be to many options for an 8 speed drivetrain. Do I HAVE to get crankset that's made for an 8sp or can I get one for a 10? I'd like to move up to a 2x10 at some point anyway.

    Would something like this work:
    Shimano SLX M665 Double Chainset | Chain Reaction Cycles
  • 10-11-2013
    DiRt DeViL
    You could go 8, 9 or 10, is up to how deep your pockets are. If you move to something other than 8 you'll need at least a new rear shifter, cassette, chain and adjust the rear mech reach limit.

    You can use a 9sp crankset with 8 or 9 speeds but for 10 everything has to be 10spd compatible.
  • 10-11-2013
    cj_desmit
    Ok, thanks. I'd like to stick with 8 speeds for now as I do not want to have to buy all new shifters, ect. I edited my previous post before I saw you had replied. The crankset I linked in my previous post is supposedly 9spd compatible so any idea if it would work with my current 8sp. That is exactly what I am looking for..
  • 10-11-2013
    DiRt DeViL
    That will work just fine, is a triple but with a bash guard instead of the big ring. Many riders here including my son ride the SLX cranks on their Talons, I run Truvativ Stylo's on mine just because I had them but the Shimano external bearings last a lot longer than the Truvativ so you'll be in good shape.
  • 10-11-2013
    dirtbyte
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cj_desmit View Post
    Ok, so I stopped by my LBS today and was chatting with one of the mechs about dropping my 3rd ring. He said that the chainring and crank on the 2012 Talons is all one piece? Does this sound right? I looked at my bike again and it does look like the chainring is at least one piece (as in you cannot remove rings). Has anyone actually dropped the 3rd (largest) ring on a 2012 model?

    If you are looking for a super cheap way out of this problem, here you go: Shimano M442 Square Taper Chainset | Chain Reaction Cycles
  • 10-11-2013
    DiRt DeViL
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mtbdennis View Post
    If you are looking for a super cheap way out of this problem, here you go: Shimano M442 Square Taper Chainset | Chain Reaction Cycles

    Those are the ones that came with my 2011 Talon's, gave mine away; still have the Radion fork sitting around in the shed waiting for someone to take it away and use it.
  • 10-11-2013
    cj_desmit
    Ah if I am going to upgrade, I'd rather not cheap out and replace junk with new junk. Not to mention, I'm thinking of building up a Yelli Screamy in the near future and can swap over parts.

    Also, I'd want 175mm crank arms correct? And any opinions on the 36/22 gear ratio?
  • 10-11-2013
    fishwrinkle
    8, 9, & 10 speed chainrings all mic out to the same thickness, cogs are a different story & do matter. i have all 3 here & all 3 diff speeds are are same thickness. i thought somewhere in this thread i talked about it already. i just purchased a RF single n/w ring and was advertised as all 3 Race Face Single Narrow/Wide Chainring > Components > Drivetrain > Chainrings | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop it don't say 8 speed b/c they're being phased out.
  • 10-11-2013
    fishwrinkle
    i'd stay w/ 175mm & the 36T might be a little tall, but there are several factors. i wouldn't worry about it you gotta granny. i have the same crankset & the problem i ran into was when i put a bb tensioner on it i had to drop the granny due to interference from the granny bolts. that was fine & i ran 1x8 for a while then bought a slx 10spd cassette. 36T and 8 gears will build your legs i'll tell ya that. my talon now is setup 38T single n/w ring to a 11/36 10 speed w/ zee shifter no bb tensioner or guide and its phenomenal. i don't know your trails, but i had to go that route due to the fact i kept dropping the chain more times than i could count every ride. just noticed you're getting a yelli, nice. i just got a nimble 9 gen 2 and set it up ss. most fun i've had on a bike in a long time. i just pieced my talon back together after being ransacked for the N9.
  • 10-11-2013
    cj_desmit
    Yeah, I'm keeping my eyes open for a good deal on a used frame. Not sure if I want a L or XL though. My Talon is a XL so I'm thinking I should probably stick with that size.
  • 10-11-2013
    WeAreTheCosmos
    only thing remaining is the frame... Down to 24.5 lbs.

    - Stans Arch-Ex 29er wheelset (Custom blue decals)
    - RockShox Recon Gold TK 100mm (Custom blue decals)
    - E-Thirteen XCX crankset
    - E-Thirteen blue 34t chainring
    - SRAM X9 Type2 rear derailleur & shifter
    - Shimano XT CS-M771 10sp Cassette (11-36t)
    - Easton EC70 carbon handlebars
    - Velo Attune lock-on grips
    - ISM Century saddle
    - 60mm Kore Durox stem
    - Hope Tech Evo X2 brakes (w/braided hoses)
    - Shimano RT-86 icetech rotors
    - Cane Creek 3G Thudbuster LT seatpost
    - Origin 8 Proform pedals
    - Rocket Ron Snakeskin front tubeless tire
    - Kenda SB8 rear tubeless tire





    Took it on a road trip from Toronto, out to BC, then through the states back home. Pic was taken at Yellowstone Lake.
  • 10-12-2013
    chuckeieio
    ^. I'm at a crossroads right now over doing something similar. My 2013 Giant Talon 0 is not only too heavy but my fork is starting to become notchy and unresponsive.

    I've been shopping around looking for a discounted 2013 the past few weeks in the 3k range but nothing seems to ride quite as well as that Talon frame. I prefer the Talon over the XTC after testing one out.
    Now I'm tasked with deciding whether to to go with a Specialized epic carbon 29 which I may or may not love (but can find several on sale right now with awesome specs) or to upgrade everything on my Talon so I can get a few years out of it as I love the way the frame feels. Between the fork and the cheap hubs I'm already starting to feel the bike wearing as I ride a quite a bit.

    Thanks for putting up your build. If I put a wrench to this I'd like to end up at most 25lbs. It sits at 31 now with pedals.

    Edit to add. Any idea what the frame weighs? I've had a hell of a time finding anything about Talon or XTC frame weights online.
  • 10-13-2013
    WeAreTheCosmos
    No idea what the frame weighs. I wish I had done the build all at once, to weigh each part, but I built it over a couple months.
  • 10-13-2013
    fishwrinkle
    hows the pedal bob on the thudbuster?
  • 10-15-2013
    ///M3fresh
    Just wanted to get educated on tapered steer tube and adapters.

    I am thinking of going with this fork 2012 Fox F29 RL 32 w/ remote lockout 100mm 15QR Tapered - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories

    and adding a CK XX 44 tapered steer adapter. Is there any reason why this upgrade wouldnt work?

    Thanks Guys!

    Edit: Would this fork be out of the question? 29er fork - MARZOCCHI 44 Micro TI - TAPERED - 15MM - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories

    I measured my fork and seems like the suntour steer tube is ~7inches. his is cut to 6.5-6.75?
  • 10-15-2013
    sandiego
    I have a 2013 Talon 29er 0. I like the way the bike rides but the wheels are pretty flexy and the front feels like it has rusty bearings or sand in them. I found a great deal on a set of Easton EA70 XCT wheels so I'm rolling on those currently (dropped a full pound of weight off the bike just from that upgrade). The fork is not very good and it is flexy and heavy. Thinking of upgrading to a Reba RL once I save up some scratch.

    Might change out the crankset once the powerspline BB wears out. It isn't very smooth and it is probably adding some unnecessary weight to the bike.

    I probably should have just bought a better bike but this was on closeout at $900 so even after the upgrades it will be a much better bike that should be more than comparable to other hardtails at more than twice the price.
  • 10-16-2013
    DiRt DeViL
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ///M3fresh View Post
    Just wanted to get educated on tapered steer tube and adapters.

    I am thinking of going with this fork 2012 Fox F29 RL 32 w/ remote lockout 100mm 15QR Tapered - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories

    and adding a CK XX 44 tapered steer adapter. Is there any reason why this upgrade wouldnt work?

    Thanks Guys!

    Edit: Would this fork be out of the question? 29er fork - MARZOCCHI 44 Micro TI - TAPERED - 15MM - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories

    I measured my fork and seems like the suntour steer tube is ~7inches. his is cut to 6.5-6.75?

    The Micro Ti is also a great fork but be concerned about the steerer tube length, the CK XX may take some extra room and you may end up with an unusable fork because the tube may be too short. Don't buy on desperation, take all the measurements and be sure that you buy what you want and what works on your application.
  • 10-16-2013
    DiRt DeViL
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sandiego View Post
    I have a 2013 Talon 29er 0. I like the way the bike rides but the wheels are pretty flexy and the front feels like it has rusty bearings or sand in them. I found a great deal on a set of Easton EA70 XCT wheels so I'm rolling on those currently (dropped a full pound of weight off the bike just from that upgrade). The fork is not very good and it is flexy and heavy. Thinking of upgrading to a Reba RL once I save up some scratch.

    Might change out the crankset once the powerspline BB wears out. It isn't very smooth and it is probably adding some unnecessary weight to the bike.

    I probably should have just bought a better bike but this was on closeout at $900 so even after the upgrades it will be a much better bike that should be more than comparable to other hardtails at more than twice the price.

    Most of us have gone thru this, in my case have done it twice and have no regrets; the bike is solid and rides well, it just needs some better parts to be great.
  • 10-17-2013
    uzikaduzi
    Just bought my first mountain bike... haven't rode a bike in 7 or 8 years and back then i only had 20 in bikes

    i got a 2012 talon 1 on craigslist for $375 (no idea if that's a good price) seems to have minimal wear. when i "test rode it" the fork was locked (which i didn't know was an option) and it felt pretty good but i obviously have nothing to compare it to. when i noticed the switch on the fork i played with it and realized what it was... with it unlocked and a few times around the block it felt like something was loose in the front end when i used the front brake.. i played around with it a bit and it seems that it must be the shock itself because when it's locked out nothing feels loose. i noticed their are many complaints about the stock front fork... is that common or is it likely damaged in some way. i'm likely describing this very poorly. also this doesn't seem much if at all heavier than my old haro 20 in but i can't get 6 inches on a bunny hop. not sure if that's from not riding a bike for 8 years or if it's because it's a mountain bike
  • 10-17-2013
    DiRt DeViL
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by uzikaduzi View Post
    Just bought my first mountain bike... haven't rode a bike in 7 or 8 years and back then i only had 20 in bikes

    i got a 2012 talon 1 on craigslist for $375 (no idea if that's a good price) seems to have minimal wear. when i "test rode it" the fork was locked (which i didn't know was an option) and it felt pretty good but i obviously have nothing to compare it to. when i noticed the switch on the fork i played with it and realized what it was... with it unlocked and a few times around the block it felt like something was loose in the front end when i used the front brake.. i played around with it a bit and it seems that it must be the shock itself because when it's locked out nothing feels loose. i noticed their are many complaints about the stock front fork... is that common or is it likely damaged in some way. i'm likely describing this very poorly. also this doesn't seem much if at all heavier than my old haro 20 in but i can't get 6 inches on a bunny hop. not sure if that's from not riding a bike for 8 years or if it's because it's a mountain bike

    Welcome to the Talon support group.

    The fork as well documented here barely gets the job done and that's it, most people realize it quicker than others but at the end most end up upgrading the fork.

    In terms of weight the bike can take a diet but that can be expensive. The cranks, bottom bracket and wheels are on the heavy side along with the cockpit parts, all are easily replaceable but again at a price.

    Feel free to ask questions, plenty of Talon owners follow this thread.
  • 10-17-2013
    uzikaduzi
    thanks dirt devil... i think i'll put up with the strange loose feeling while i look research getting a new fork.

    i don't think my old haro 20in was very light. maybe in the 35pd range? i could easily hop over a bench or something. i'm wondering if i'm that out of shape or if there is a slightly different technique for bunny hooping on a mountain bike.
  • 10-17-2013
    DiRt DeViL
    The Talon should be under that weight so I guess is more technique than anything else.
  • 10-18-2013
    Dealwagon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by uzikaduzi View Post
    thanks dirt devil... i think i'll put up with the strange loose feeling while i look research getting a new fork.

    i don't think my old haro 20in was very light. maybe in the 35pd range? i could easily hop over a bench or something. i'm wondering if i'm that out of shape or if there is a slightly different technique for bunny hooping on a mountain bike.

    I am a "rookie" rider and have only been mountain biking a year or so. I am constantly working on bunny hopping. I can now hop an 8-10" log with relative ease, but at 1st I could barely get both tires off the ground.

    With your issue, I think It has a LOT to do with physics. For the american bunny hop it seems harder to get on the rear tire, then have the room to preload to get a goo jump off of it. Where a 20" tire bike is smaller and you can preload much more since the overall height of the top bar and seat is lower.

    Its kinda like trying to do aerobatics in a 747. lol
  • 10-18-2013
    uzikaduzi
    thanks for pointing that out Dealwagon... i never thought about how much higher my bars were and how much lower the seat was.

    lol... i feel like i'm learning to do it all over again. quite humbling. i can now confirm how out of shape i really am... my legs were on fire just goofing around on a greenbelt for an hour. all morning i've been walking funny from the soreness