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  1. #1
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    Reign geo not correct

    Been riding a large Reign 1 lately, which measures 625mm ETT and 460mm reach. Giant doesn't publish reach (why?) but the given ETT of 640mm is just not correct (25.2" for folk stuck in the olden days).
    Measured a medium in the shop today, and it's 605mm, not 620mm as stated either. (I'm measuring ETT as a horizontal line from HT top-centre to SP centre).

    BB height (2.3 Maxxis rubber) is 342mm.

  2. #2
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    Not sure how accurate your measurements are, given that you can't even read
    To help out ... it's the 4th column from the left.

    Reign Advanced 27.5 1 (2015) | Official Giant bikes UK website | United Kingdom

    (that's only a joke, tongue in cheek pop at you, not meant to enrage...)

    FWIW: I really hope you;re wrong, because I bought a 35mm length stem for my bike when it comes (this week)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggis View Post
    Been riding a large Reign 1 lately, which measures 625mm ETT and 460mm reach. Giant doesn't publish reach (why?) but the given ETT of 640mm is just not correct (25.2" for folk stuck in the olden days).
    Measured a medium in the shop today, and it's 605mm, not 620mm as stated either. (I'm measuring ETT as a horizontal line from HT top-centre to SP centre).

    BB height (2.3 Maxxis rubber) is 342mm.
    Since the ST is not straight, maybe Giant is using virtual ST, which would measure longer TT than using actual ST.

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    Wouldn't be the first time Giant's published numbers don't match up with reality.

  5. #5
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    Thanks Supercow, didn't realise there was anyone still living in Pommyland - US, NZ and AUS sites don't show reach or stack:

    Reign Advanced 27.5 1 (2015) | Giant Bicycles | United States
    Reign Advanced 27.5 0 Team (2015) | Giant Bicycles | New Zealand
    Reign Advanced 27.5 0 Team (2015) | Giant Bicycles / Giant Bikes | Australia

    Measurements are accurate to within a couple of mm, and made between points indicated with two 1200mm levels and due care. Weight shown is with XT Trails which weigh 408g, Renthal Light bar and 50mm stem.

    Reign geo not correct-wilde-reign1-geo.jpgReign geo not correct-wilde-reign1-weight.jpg

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geralt View Post
    Wouldn't be the first time Giant's published numbers don't match up with reality.
    Gotta be the way they are measuring the frame - they're pretty massively different...

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    I'm beginning to think Giant just doesn't particularly care if their published measurements are correct or not. I went through some discussion of this in a thread back when I was buying my 2013 Trance X 29er. Silentfoe worked at a Giant dealer and did some measurements on a few sizes of that model. Turned out that the HTA is 68.5 not the 69.5 given by Giant. Wheelbase was longer than Giant says. Top tube shorter than what Giant says. I just measured the standover of mine and it's about 2.5 inches higher than Giant says LOL. Even worse, Giant didn't even make any corrections when they published the 2014 geometry numbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggis View Post
    Snip
    You still have that plastic guard thing on the cassette, your opinion / measurements are invalid until that's sorted!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by supercow View Post
    You still have that plastic guard thing on the cassette, your opinion / measurements are invalid until that's sorted!
    It's a borrowed bike. Looking forward to seeing your retraction when yours arrives...

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    Not following, what do I need to retract?

  11. #11
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    Foot from mouth

  12. #12
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    you know st angle changes with sag right?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by syl3 View Post
    you know st angle changes with sag right?
    Since when did Giant start using sagged measurements? Here's an (older) geo chart which is typical Giant:

    Reign geo not correct-11_geo_reign_2.jpg

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    Given the stated ETT is longer, I'd check it with 25% sag and see if it now agrees.

    There's good reason to use sag. People get fitted for bikes and a suitable ETT on a hardtail would be completely different for a dually, especially one with such a slack seatube design.

    I just made the mistake of fitting a saddle with the bike just sitting there , and when I went for a ride it hurt like hell - then I suddenly realized that when seated it was now around 5degrees up.

    You should setup bikes as if you are sitting on them, and there is no way to compare the geo of HT to a dually unless you allow for that

  15. #15
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    I don't disagree but I think you're mixing up bike setup with frame specifications...

    So, the HA and SA (which are correct BTW), should also be sagged? What about BB drop? What you're suggesting is that Giant are mixing sagged and unsagged measurements in the same geometry table with no caveat.

    Fundamentals such as ETT and reach/stack should be clearly and accurately supplied, it's not rocket surgery.

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    I'm just thinking that's what they done. While it's obvious to any reader that a BB drops when you sit on a bike - it's not so obvious that the ETT changes.

    And absolutely they should specify what they have done and how it is measured. A mate of mine who owns a bike shop laments when someone comes in with top tubes etc required, because it's too simplistic , especially with different manufacturers taking different approaches eg, one manufacturer designs with a 90mm stem in mind and another designs with a 60mm stem in mind.

    Consumer with a little bit of knowledge now excludes the bike or worse, gets the next size up.

    My personal top tube measure is gained from a particular bike which fitted well, but in retrospect it only fits well with that seatube angle on that bike bringing me to a good position. Our preoccupation for specifications is not making our decisions better IMO

    I wonder whether specs are provided by marketing to placate the consumer and begrudgingly so

  17. #17
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    Yeah I wonder why they even bother putting size stickers on frames, they should just make people ride whatever the shop has in stock....

  18. #18
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    Radical idea - how about ride the bike? If it's rides well and you like it, then buy it.

    Manufacturers are easy to blame, but why not blame consumers as well? Happens in Hi Fi - most specs are for illiterate consumers who will buy the lowest number of distortion without the faintest understanding of how it is gathered or what it means, and with no standards manufacturers can do what they want.

    Untill there's an agreed set of standard s that everyone must abide by, it's a crapshoot.

    So, what SHOULD the numbers be used for, getting the right size for you within that model, or comparing that model with another companies?

    If giant think you use it for the former, then they'll include sag, the latter they might use straight frame, but only if other manufacturers are using same.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggis View Post
    Yeah I wonder why they even bother putting size stickers on frames, they should just make people ride whatever the shop has in stock....
    Why be surly about it? Just trying to help by giving another point of view as to why something is the way it is. Add some debate perhaps?

    Nice lookin pic anyway
    Last edited by pharmaboy; 01-12-2015 at 06:35 PM. Reason: Being nicer

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    Quote Originally Posted by supercow View Post
    You still have that plastic guard thing on the cassette, your opinion / measurements are invalid until that's sorted!
    Let me guess, you're one of those people who say "if you know how to set up the derailleur, you don't need a spoke protector"?
    You've never bent a derailleur hanger?

    I like that Giants come with a spoke protector, rebuilding a wheel costs money and/or time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggis View Post
    Foot from mouth
    Quote Originally Posted by fsrxc View Post
    Let me guess, you're one of those people who say "if you know how to set up the derailleur, you don't need a spoke protector"?
    You've never bent a derailleur hanger?

    I like that Giants come with a spoke protector, rebuilding a wheel costs money and/or time.
    OH Jesus boys, I was taking the piss. Only joking around with you - keep them tampons in!

  22. #22
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    Reign geo not correct

    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy View Post

    Untill there's an agreed set of standard s that everyone must abide by, it's a crapshoot.

    So, what SHOULD the numbers be used for, getting the right size for you within that model, or comparing that model with another companies?

    If giant think you use it for the former, then they'll include sag, the latter they might use straight frame, but only if other manufacturers are using same.
    Ah, there is already a convention - static measurements unsagged. Every other manufacturer uses it and it works fine.
    Giant seems to struggle to get it right. I suspect they don't actually measure the bike, but rely on CAD drawings of the frame.
    I agree numbers don't tell the whole story, but they do inform....

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    So, with all the toys out the pram and all that - do you actually like the bike or not?

  24. #24
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    Reign geo not correct

    Bike? Who cares about riding the bike.... we're geeking here....

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    Haha, I need to know how well it skids and wheelies.

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