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  1. #1
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    Reasonable price for Anthem 1

    I get that Giant will put an MSRP price guide for retailers, but that doesn't mean that price is set in stone. I am all for my local bike shop making some money as they need to stay in business.

    What do you think is a reasonable markdown from MSRP for a top level bike from this line?

    I think that I've read in other threads here that bike shops can give up 25% off list for team racers, and still turn a profit on sales. Would asking for 20% off be presumptive?

  2. #2
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    It depends on the shop. The higher volume they do the more comfortably they can come off the price. So while a busy shop may be able to knock 25% off for a race team, a lower volume shop needs to make more money per bike, and a huge deal for them might be 10% off MSRP.

  3. #3
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    So you've been shopping at this shop for years then that you would presume to ask for such a discount? Despite what you people think, shops don't make that much on complete bikes when you take into account the stock they have to carry, rent, utilities, employee wages etc. My advice, go in and talk to someone, be honest, ask what they can do for you, maybe they don't give a big discount, but offer a decent one off other parts/accessories that you buy.
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  4. #4
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    Yea. I have been shopping at this store for about 25 years now. My past 3 bikes were purchased through them along with most all maintenance and bike accessories. I know for a time they had their own bike team but I can't say for sure now as it's been a few years since I have shopped for a bike. Mainly from them it's been getting tuning and some wear parts replacement done.

    I am more specifically asking for the Anthem 1 as it's an MSRP of $4250 so not a cheep bike. Yes they do carry stock in the store and I did go on the weekend where while I was there they sold 3 bikes. One actually was an Anthem SX2 that lists for $3200, but I wasn't that nosy to see how much if any discount was applied.

    I know from listening to sales people, they commonly say we can work with you on the price, so I gather that MSRP is generally set high so people can feel they are getting a deal. Sort of like some of the box stores that seem to have a sale running every day of the week so really it's not really a sale as that is the discount price every day of the week.

    It is an assumption that $300 bike will make far less money than a $4000 bike. So if a bike store is happy to make $30 profit from the less expensive bike, is it likely that the more expensive bike is also just marked up by that same amount of profit in $ value, or is it likely to be as a percentage. ie they could make $400 off the higher dollar bike, so asking for a bigger cut to actually sell a bike is far more advantageous than not selling a bike at all.

  5. #5
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    As a regular Joe, without a team, I think somewhere between 15% and 20% is a pretty good deal on bikes in the $3-4K range.

    It could be harder to get that discount on some less expensive bikes.

  6. #6
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    Well if that's the case then I'd expect to get a fair discount, but hoping for 20% on a this model year bike at the beginning of the year is really un-realistic, on last years model, well sure, but not for a this years bike.

    As to being able to give more discount on more expensive bikes, don't think your theory holds true, because the amount the actually make percentage wise is actually much smaller than on a lower end bike, which is why you'll see them selling them regularly and it's what they carry, much higher ROI - e.g. on say a $500 bike they might make $200, where as on a $4k bike they might only make $400, so if they gave you the same discount % wise on both bikes they'd be loosing out much more on the more expensive bike.

    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill401 View Post
    Yea. I have been shopping at this store for about 25 years now. My past 3 bikes were purchased through them along with most all maintenance and bike accessories. Mainly from them it's been getting tuning and some wear parts replacement done.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    much higher ROI - e.g. on say a $500 bike they might make $200, where as on a $4k bike they might only make $400
    Depending on the brand, there's $1000-1500 to be made on a $4K bike, not counting the cost of assembly.

  8. #8
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    Well, my bike store would not budge on the price, so I ended up walking. Guess i have to make a decision of do really NEED a new bike, or is it just a desire for change from what I have now.

  9. #9
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    That's disappointing, but I also have a few shops like that. They won't earn my business. Cars and bikes aren't that far off in prices these days, and I'm not paying MSRP for either.

    If you want a new bike, I wouldn't limit yourself to what's available at your local shops. Online shops like Competitive Cyclist have some decent deals on good bikes, and this is a good time to catch some last minute deals on 2016 models.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill401 View Post
    Well, my bike store would not budge on the price, so I ended up walking. Guess i have to make a decision of do really NEED a new bike, or is it just a desire for change from what I have now.
    That's not surprising given the time of year.

    For a 20+ year customer and not even a gesture discount is pretty poor customer service. I would've walked too, not sure I'd ever go back either.

    There's lots of places mtn bikers can spend their money theses days. If I were the owner of that shop I'd do my best to keep my long term customers happy.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExhaustPipe View Post
    If I were the owner of that shop I'd do my best to keep my long term customers happy.
    Agreed. It's a strange answer to: Would I like to make some money, or no money?

  12. #12
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    So I just bought myself a Giant Anthem 3, 2017. Usually your LBS won't give a HUGE discount (or a discount at all) on 2017 products because they are new. After spending a few hours in the LBS, I was able to get the bike for $2200 CAD. Basically, no tax which comes to around 10-15%.

    Try to talk to a store manager and not just a floor employee. Usually they'll do anything they can to provide utmost customer satisfaction, knowing that they can more money out of you from servicing, equipment, and parts, and the fact that you could potentially rake in more customers.

  13. #13
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    My LBS did offer a token break. They knocked off $49 and offered to install a set of peddles at no charge. There commend was that is it a new bike and they are selling really well.

    I guess I will see if I want to wait until the end of the season and see if they have any left, or as many have said, look around for a different bike shop to deal with. But for me, it drove home the question.. Do I NEED a new bike, or is it simply the desire that I'd like a new bike.

    Technically, my Trek Liquid rims do support tubeless, so I could try stipping out the tubes to lightend the rolling weight. I could look into simply removing the front derailleur completely along with the un-needed shifter and the 22 tooth ring. that would shed some weight from the bike and is really a no cost to me reduction.

    I probably should look into changing my really old tires for something newer and that would give a bit better grip for the riding that i do. Just go over the bike and see what I can take off that would shed the lbs. Perhaps if I took those steps it would make the ride more enjoyable.

  14. #14
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    Where are you located?

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    /i'm just outside of Toronto, ON Canada. We sadly become the butt of all jokes regarding pricing. It seems that Canada is considered a non market for many as we don't have a very high population compared to the land mass. But companies fail to remember that only about 10% of Canada is en fact inhabited.

  16. #16
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    You could almost buy a bike, via phone, from a good dealer and ship it to your place via Bike Flights. I think you could still make out better than paying retail.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadkill401 View Post
    /i'm just outside of Toronto, ON Canada. We sadly become the butt of all jokes regarding pricing. It seems that Canada is considered a non market for many as we don't have a very high population compared to the land mass. But companies fail to remember that only about 10% of Canada is en fact inhabited.
    Oh heyo! I'm based off of Toronto too. A lot of great LBS near us. Outside I'm assuming East? Check out bay cycles near Pickering. Good seller of Giant's, where I bought my Anthem 3. They'll give you a good deal, at least 10-15% off a 2017 Anthem 1. Ask for parts too. If you're west End near Sauga, check out thebikezone.com Good supplier of Scott, Marin, and Kona if you wanted to switch brands. But yeah, there is also a giant supplier downtown Toronto off of Queen I think... Could be wrong.

  18. #18
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    I am on the Mississauga side of Toronto. I will however give both the Toronto and Pickering stores a call and see if they are willing to give be a better deal. I am not sure if they will be game over the phone but worth a call to see.

  19. #19
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    I've had good luck with negotiating over the phone.

    I explain that I'm not local. I tell them I know what bike I want, and if they can offer a good deal, I'll make the trip over there to complete the purchase.

    I would explain that you're not looking to use their offer to get a more local shop to budge, you just want a fast/easy transaction.

  20. #20
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    Life sure has a way of sneaking up on your and giving a huge kick in the gonads. woke up yesterday to a couple of headaches. Part of the front of my house over the front door fell off in the wind. Seems it was not made with outdoor PT wood but standard pine so it rotted out. Then the family cat ended up getting rushed to vet emerg sick. I seem to see my pocket getting emptied and i am not one step forward in a new bike.

    I have not called up Bike Depot yet. I thought that I might take a look at what it would take move my old Trek Liquid20 in the 21st century.. well 2015'ish. I figured I can strip off the front derailleur and start removing some of the other junk from the bike. I know I won't have a drop seat and the front suspension forks that I have are like boat ankers. But if I can get it to 1x9 for under $100 then I can at least give it a try. The current middle crank cog is 32 tooth. If going 1x9 i can bump that up to a 36 then it will give me a better idea of what I want / need.

  21. #21
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    I had similar experience as well, but mine was a $5K bill for orthodontia.

  22. #22
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    You guys have to realize that a shop is making about 30% margin on a bike, plus or minus about 5%. With all the carrying costs, if they sell you a bike for 20% off, they just lost money. Think about it, they have to pay someone to build it, the sales person that talks to you, rent, utilities, someone to order the bike, sometimes shipping, etc. By doing that they also train customers to expect big discounts, which then leaves them always trying to catch up, not able to pay bills, and going under. The only way for a shop to remain in business is to maintain integrity in the pricing. Thinking that MSRP is just a suggestion is not really a thing in the bike business. Online dealers aren't doing themselves any favors because they are not making much money either. There is no elegant answer to fixing the bike industry nowadays, but until dealers start holding margin and not giving in to the impulse to unload a bike, they are going to be in trouble.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by KO21 View Post
    You guys have to realize that a shop is making about 30% margin on a bike, plus or minus about 5%. With all the carrying costs, if they sell you a bike for 20% off, they just lost money.
    Your argument of using %s simply doesn't work. Expenses are largely fixed, and not based off a % of the bike's MSRP. It's not vastly more time intensive to assemble a Trek 820 over a Fuel EX8, yet one has a $150 markup and the other has a $1500 markup. If reducing their markup on the EX8, to $750, yields an unprofitable transaction, then that bike shop is doomed.

    $3000-4000 bikes are the bread and butter of a bike shop, they don't need many of those to keep the lights on. They would need to sell a lot of 820s to keep the lights on.

    Do you have this same altruistic feeling toward car dealerships as you do your LBS? My LBS has to earn my business, I don't feel like they're a charity that I'm morally obligated to support.

  24. #24
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    [QUOTE=rijndael;13098927]Your argument of using %s simply doesn't work. Expenses are largely fixed, and not based off a % of the bike's MSRP. It's not vastly more time intensive to assemble a Trek 820 over a Fuel EX8, yet one has a $150 markup and the other has a $1500 markup. If reducing their markup on the EX8, to $750, yields an unprofitable transaction, then that bike shop is doomed.

    $3000-4000 bikes are the bread and butter of a bike shop, they don't need many of those to keep the lights on. They would need to sell a lot of 820s to keep the lights on.

    Do you have this same altruistic feeling toward car dealerships as you do your LBS? My LBS has to earn my business, I don't feel like they're a charity that I'm morally obligated to support.[/QUOTE

    Your argument doesn't really work. What does it matter if the costs are fixed? The margin that a shop makes on the bike is the bottom line to whether they make profit or not. Not taking into account the costs of bringing in product and flooring it is ridiculous. I actually have absolute altruistic feelings toward my shop, I own it. This is just the other side of the coin that you may not want to see in your quest for the best deal. I don't blame customers for that, but my comment was meant to show the other side of the coin. If you can find a better price for something else, go get it, that's your right, and doesn't bother me one bit. My shop is doing well because of our customer service and value added to the product that people purchase. Many businesses in this industry are in trouble and will have to pivot or go under. I was simply trying to let you know the reality that shops are not there to solely screw you over, which seems to be the perception many people have. It's crazy to me that people will trust some faceless person online who often doesn't really know what they are talking about over a professional who is trying to make a living at it.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KO21 View Post
    Your argument doesn't really work. What does it matter if the costs are fixed?
    You answered your own question in the next sentence.

    Quote Originally Posted by KO21 View Post
    The margin that a shop makes on the bike is the bottom line to whether they make profit or not.
    Exactly. It's the dollar amount, not a percent. Your electric bill, rent, etc, are all dollar based, not % based. You need X dollars to keep the lights on and get a paycheck. If making $750 rather than $1500 on a $4K bike puts you in the red, you have other issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by KO21 View Post
    Not taking into account the costs of bringing in product and flooring it is ridiculous.
    Shops almost never stock the bikes I'm interested in. They have low end fodder that has 0 appeal to me. I don't get to demo the bike, or even see it, all I get is a "we can order that". Well you know what? I can order it too, so make it worth my while.

    Quote Originally Posted by KO21 View Post
    I was simply trying to let you know the reality that shops are not there to solely screw you over,
    I don't think they're trying to screw me over, but I do think they're looking out for their shop, and not my wallet. Their job is to put food on their table, and it's my job to do that for my family. Sometimes we can agree on a sale, and we both get to do that. Other times, I buy it online.

    Quote Originally Posted by KO21 View Post
    It's crazy to me that people will trust some faceless person online who often doesn't really know what they are talking about over a professional who is trying to make a living at it.
    Most shops are not stocked with "professionals", at least not in my area.

  26. #26
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    And I don't want to give the impression I give my LBSs no sales. I have spent over $20K in 3 years at one shop, a shop that gives me a discount (and has after my first sale). Zipp 404s, a couple of Cannondales (HiMod), a couple of CX bikes ... I'm not exactly an exclusive online shopper. But, I do shop around.

  27. #27
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    KO21. Where your logic seems to fall apart on me as you clearly put it.

    The margin that a shop makes on the bike is the bottom line to whether they make profit or not. Not taking into account the costs of bringing in product and flooring it is ridiculous.
    But is it better to make that $750 and keep a long standing customer? or is it better to stick it to them demanding the $1500 but getting $0 and the customer never coming back?

    I see no reason to ever go back to my LBS after what they pulled on me. They got 3 bikes 2 sets of upgrades and multiple times in for repairs and tuneups that are beyond my ability. But all this is now in the past and going forward they get ZERO. They get no good will from me if someone asks me where I got my bike from or I'm looking for a bike where would you shop? They more than likely will get a stay clear of ...

    I have a business too. I don't sell bikes, I sell things made out of wood. The number of times that someone has some back to me with a cutting board that they clearly neglected and put in the dishwasher and destroyed. Is is smarter to effectively loose money and keep good will, or loose the customer and any potential future sales and referrals. For me the former has proven to be of more value.

    But going back to the store. The rent is a fixed cost regardless of how many bikes you sell. just like hydro, insurance, ... The cost of staff is a fun one, as it costs you the same amount if they are busy all the time selling and assembling bikes, as if you had them sitting around twiddling their thumbs doing nothing. Now if they were just sitting around you'd likely let them go, until you get busy and then wish your had them back.

    You are correct in it makes no sense to sell a bike below your cost most of the time. You are correct that it costs money to assemble a bike, but as was put, that cost is not relative to the selling price. just because a bike sells for $400 vs $4000 doesn't mean it takes 1/10 of the effort to sell it. Expensive bikes make far more money for your store, as likely, the buyer will be back for all the other sundry items that get used. It is far more valuable to keep an expensive bike customer as they are much harder to come by, than someone who will just as easily buy a bike at Walmart because it's $75 cheeper.

  28. #28
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    My logic falls apart because to everyone because I am talking about setting boundaries with people they don't want. My first post had basically nothing to do with your situation, just giving the other perspective. For customers who have a history like you, of course we work in a discount, extra perks, etc. A lot of times it's not about the money for people but feeling as though they are being taken care of. With a new bike purchase, you are often getting free tune ups and work, plus warranty work, etc. I've seen two shops that became the "hook up" or discount shop in town and they went under very quickly. They couldn't figure out that hooking people up and making no margin would effectively close the doors. They trained customers to expect to basically pay cost. It's a fine line between making money and making people feel good about their purchases. So do you think taking a loss on a job is a idea for your business in hopes they refer someone to you? Guess how that conversation goes. "Hey, go to this guy, he'll hook you up big time..." It's a slippery slope. And yes, margin is everything. I know what my fixed and variable costs are on products and how that eats into margin. A general rule of retail has been that a company needs to clear about 35% on everything (products, service, etc) in order to cover costs. I see your point and I don't think you're wrong, I didn't get on here to start fights with anyone, it's why I rarely post. I really did just want to show the other side of things since people often develop beliefs about shops without really knowing the facts. I am very guilty of it. I was a customer for about 10 years before I started a shop. I was always frustrated with shops and thought I could do things better. I think we are in many ways, but the challenges for shops are very real and were greater than I originally thought. This is one a few businesses of mine so I'm not in there every hour of every day and I'm more concerned about the business end of things. I'm sure that shop didn't handle your situation really well either, which is another topic of discussion all together as it is crucial to get good people working with customers. The bike industry is pretty much a stupid thing to get involved with. It's really such a mess and full of a lot of incompetent people, which just compounds the problem and makes things more difficult for the shop to effectively service customers. It's frustrating for everyone unfortunately.

  29. #29
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    I live in Calgary and And wife just bought a 2016 giant anthem 1 with a full xt build for $2,900. I will note that I have a great relationship with my LBS as this maybe my 10th bike I have purchased from them and my total spend there has been significant over the past 5 years.

    The bike was listed at the price on giant's website and it was then marked down to $3300. In the end I thought it was a fair price and underscored why I continue to shop at my local Cyclepath.

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