NRS Bearing and Bushing Kits- Finally
I finally recieved enough parts to put together 8 kits. I was hoping for more, but the spacers and flange bushings are backordered (another week or so). I managed to get very excellent spacer sleeves and flange bushings. The sleeve is Rockwell 58c, VERY hard and ground polished smooth. Much better than the NRS original aluminum sleeve, but expensive.
The bearings are also excellent, I recieved the 600 bearings today. I made up the 16 replacement kits and listed them on eBay. Includes every bearing and the dropout pivot spacers and flange bushings, which are currently on backorder from GIANT for 6 weeks. I know that JUST the 2 dropout kits from GIANT are $45 alone.
I just placed an ad in the MTBR classified in "other components". It points to the auction.
Last edited by John; 05-14-2011 at 07:25 AM.
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Wow finally the kit is done. Looks pretty good. My bushings are toast. Time for a new set.
just ordered mine - only six sets left
Will the harder steel sleeves damage the frame in any way? Did giant want the softer sleeves to prevent damage to the frame itself?
"Drinking and driving is wrong, but hey, the kids gotta get to school right?"
Niner EMD 1X10
No, SUPERIOR to the GIANT sleeves
BIG EXPLAINATION: You have been warned.
Originally Posted by nygeo
The sleeve is designed to be a spacer and a bushing race. The plastic flange bushings (engineered bearing plastic, very abrasive resistant) are pressed into each side of the upper seatstay bore (16mm diameter). This slightly compresses the flange bushing so it's a light press fit, and shrinks the inner diameter of the bushing (14mm inner diameter).
The sleeve then fits inside of the two flange bushings. Since the seatstay pivot itself is only 10mm wide, the included width of the 2 flange bushings makes the overall width 12mm, give or take .2mm tolerance.
So, the ENTIRE seatstay assemly with the flanges is now 12mm in width. NOW the sleeve (14mm in outer diameter, and 12mm in width) is inserted into the center of this seatstay assembly. Since the sleeve is 12mm in length(width), it is about flush with the edges of the seatstay pivot.
The width of the Chainstay pivoit is 12mm. Once the seatstay assembly is forced into the chainstay yoke, then the special GIANT pivot bolt is passed through and tightened. The bolt actually SQUEEZES the entire assembly BUT is prevented from crushing the flange bushings by the SLEEVE. It is SPACING the chainstay yoke at 12mm, and allows the seatstay/chainstay interface to PIVOT. The sleeve ACTUALLY DOES NOT EVER MOVE!!
The seatstay, with its' flange bushings, does its' job by pivoting AROUND the SLEEVE SPACER. The flange bushing IS the actual wear item, but because dirt gets in there eventually (depends on riding conditions) it will wear out the flange bushing AND the sleeve eventually if not maintained and kept pretty clean.
Since the GIANT sleeve is Aluminum (anodized for surface hardness) it wears out pretty quick once the integrity of the flange bushings are compromised. Nothing you can do but replace them. I AM TRYING to find a less expensive alternative which does a good job. ( I may eventually be able to get 1000 of the spacer sleeves made, the same as the Aluminum GIANT version, but I haven't gotten any quotes back from manufacturers yet. I have to be patient I guess.)
So you see, the sleeve MUST be rigid, inflexible, and smooth to do it's job of SPACING the chainstay yoke AND having a nice pivot surface for the bushings to rotate on. It's actually an impressive way of doing it, although if GIANT would have just designed the darm thing with sealed cartridge bearings to begin with, I think we would be better off!!
Who knows why it was this way? Only the GIANT engineer. It certainly is NOT cheaper than a real cartridge ball bearing. I know!! Those spacer sleeves are expensive compared to everything else. The flange bushings are also expensive because there are 4 of them.
I had to buy 500 flange bushings (had 40) to get a price break. I had to buy 600 bearings to get a price break. I CAN'T afford to buy 200 of the sleeves at once. It would cost OVER $1200 for that many!!! AND the supplier only had 17 available so I purchased 16. Also the flange bushings (460 more) are backordered for one more week (faster than GIANT though hee hee!!).
Last edited by John; 05-14-2011 at 07:25 AM.
Fragile - must be Italian
How long do the stock NRS bushings/bearings last?
I know this is an impossible question to answer with any degree of certainty, but how long do the NRS bushings/bearings typically last? My bike is an '03 and I have been riding it for 8 months. I ride fairly hard but I am not a large person - 150lbs.
The reason I ask is because if the bushings/bearings wear out within 1 year, I will definitely buy a new set from you. But if these items last longer, I will probably wait until the next set you make.
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Well my first set of bushings lasted me 4 months. I sent it into the LBS and they got it replaced but costed me 50 dollars! Its been about 6 months since my last set and the bushings are toasted. I can hear the clicking when I pedal uphill. Took me a while to locate it but I found out it was the bushings. I tried to clean it and lube it but no help.
Originally Posted by dgangi
One thing I noticed is that if you expose the bushings to water and dirt, it'll wear them fast. Thats what happend to me on my first set. I fell and one of the pivots contacted the mud and soon after that the play set in. I cleaned it up but I guess that didnt help(it happend in the middle of the ride). So it probably depends on where you ride.
FYI I weigh about 165# and I ride in Socal.
I think if you took the rear dropout pivots apart every 3 months , and wiped them clean, get all the grit and dirt out and away, they would last at least a few years, even if you rode 1000+ miles a year.
Mine only lasted about 18 months/1500 miles. I rode in the rain, mud, stream crossings, glacial sand (the WORST abrasive!) ect. It took me a while to realize I had enough play in the pivots to affect my disc brake rub, and shifting. I also had some tire rub inside the left chainstay.
I also now believe that putting any kind of lube on the plastic flange bushings is wrong. It will quiet them for a while if they sqeak, but will attract dirt instead and wear them out faster. I was putting dry graphite there for a few months, but it didn't appear to help. It probably hastened the demise of the flange bushings and spacer sleeve.
In any event, NOT being able to go the the GIANT shops (4 yes FOUR!!) and just buy a set was total BS. Okay, so it's not the bike shops fault they don't stock it (a wear item??!?!?!?), but GIANT should have at least a set for every NRS frame they have made. It's like a tire for crying out loud. They wear out.
I agree with you John....
But you gotta ensure the pivot bolt has a snug fit on the sleeve or otherwise the harder sleeve would damage the bolt itself.
Wouldn't it be brass much nicer in this application?? Maybe some SAE 64?? Not as hard and more suitable for this stuff.
I'm speaking from experience. Not with a NRS but with a cheaper bike. I changed some spacer sleeves at a shock mount where they were not rotating, just serving as spacers. These were some cheap arse plastic (similar to Nylamid to be true) but I thought it wasa good idea to chenge them to aluminum. Eventually the harder spacers gouged the shock mount tabs a bit enough to translate into a bit of play at the swingarm and damaged the shock mount head also.
It seems you pretty much know what you're doing and you'll be fine... but just give it a second thought... 58RC is a bit too much. Maybe your bolt is is not that hard or resilient. I would give brass a try. It's cheaper, self-lubricating and way harder than aluminum but depending the grade will wear before the bolt.
Just my humble opinion.
Thumbs up for you!!!
PS... will you sell parts for Warps swingarms???
Nope. Bolt and sleeve DO NOT MOVE.
Seriously, once the dropout pivot bolt has been tightened. It LOCKS the sleeve inside the chainstay yoke. The bolt does not move, nor does the sleeve. The flange bushings which are pressed INSIDE of the seatstay bore however, are free to pivot, which is how it is designed. Even a real hard piece of nylon would serve a spacer for a while. The real issue is longevity of the flange bushings. I would MUCH prefer the flange bushing to wear normally and not wipe out my spacer sleeve. The GIANT sleeve is anodized aluminum. The surface is 42 rockwell on the "c" scale. I know, I measured it. So it's "soft", and can be damaged once dirt and grit finds it's way into the pivot (which it will). Once that anodized surface wears, goodbye spacer. A spacere at 58Rc is way better, plus a ground smooth surface. The only reason I am looking into getting spacers made for me out of aluminum and having then anodized (basically duplicating the GIANT OEM part) is because of the huge cost of the hardened sleeves.
Originally Posted by Warp2003
PS: If anyone gives me actual dimensions for any bearing or bushing on their bike, I can most likely find a replacement and "ride" the parts onto my larger orders to my suppliers to save on cost of the part and shipping. It is my intention to create a small businesa that caters to repairing MTB suspensions.
My first go 'round cost me $89 for one bike with shipping (3 vendors)!! I had to scale up the orders to make the price drop where it is now.
Also I should have mentioned, the sleeves in my kits are toleranced WAY better than the GIANT sleeve. The pivot bolt and flange bushing fit is perfect.
You got my point... the parts might not move but if there's any tolerance between the sleeve and bolt you will end up damaging the bolt due to the harder sleeve. So you did much better than well giving parts a snug fit.
As I said... you pretty much know what you're doing. Let us know when you get some sets for the post '03 Warps. I'll be willing to get some.