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  1. #1
    CAK
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    Giant Reigns Frame Geo Specs Are Way Off?

    Giants web site Reign geometry chart seems way outa wack. My '05 16" Reign has a 43.75" wheel base, a 68.5 degree head angle and a 71 degree seat tube angle. I measured this with a magnetic angle finder which is pretty darn accurate as I have measured other bikes to the degree.

    I have a Nixon Elite on mine. Anyone else care to measure the wheel base, H/A and S/A on their 16" Reign or other sizes just to compare?



    Last edited by CAK; 06-21-2006 at 09:15 PM.
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  2. #2
    CAK
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    What, nobody owns a tape measure?

    At least some wheelbase measurements with frame size would be nice.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAK
    I have a Nixon Elite on mine. Anyone else care to measure the wheel base, H/A and S/A on their 16" Reign or other sizes just to compare?
    firstly, i'm not at all familiar with the Reign, sorry.

    however, is the nixon a standard length/travel fork? and should you take into account 'sag'.

    it all spells 'longer fork' to me. a longer fork will slacken the angles and increase the wheelbase. perhaps Giant haven't updated the specs to account for any changes; it may have originally been designed with a shorter fork.

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  4. #4
    CAK
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    Thats the thing, the Nixon is a factory fork on the Reign 1 and 2. Maybe it was measured with a 100mm fork but that doesn't make any sence.

    Kinda curious if the 18", 20" and 21" bikes have the wheelbase as listed on Giants web site.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAK
    Giants web site Reign geometry chart seems way outa wack. My '05 16" Reign has a 43.75" wheel base, a 68.5 degree head angle and a 71 degree seat tube angle. I measured this with a magnetic angle finder which is pretty darn accurate as I have measured other bikes to the degree.

    I have a Nixon Elite on mine. Anyone else care to measure the wheel base, H/A and S/A on their 16" Reign or other sizes just to compare?
    18" 05 with Revelation - WB is 1130mm (44.49") axle to axle, ETT is 586mm (23.07") with no sag.

    I think Giant's chart figures are rear axle to projected centre of head tube.... that would explain the consistent WB differences.

    Dunno how to accurately measure HA & SA...how does a magnetic angle finder thingummie work?
    Last edited by Haggis; 03-12-2006 at 01:11 AM.

  6. #6
    CAK
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    I think I know whats going on...

    I think that Giant screwed up on their web page as far as wheelbase is concerned.

    It appears that the wheel base is one size off on the chart. The wheelbase listed for the 18" frame is actually that of the 16" frame. Your wheelbase that you listed for your 18" frame appears to be that of the 20" frame.

    As far as the the H/A and S/A being so far off I can't figure out. The T/T, H/T, S/T and Chainstay lenghts all appear correct, at least on my 16" frame.

    This is what I use to measure angles:
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  7. #7
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    18" reign wheelbase at 44.75" (loooonnng)

    I measured my 18" Reign 1 wheelbase at 44.75"
    That is about 1" longer than what is listed on the giant's website.
    I was thinking about getting a 16" frame to try the Reign with a shorter wheelbase.
    The long wheelbase makes this bike way to stiff for me. (I come from a XC, XC racing backgroung and my trails are more about agility and quick handling)
    I got a 16" Trance frame which I built with leftover XC racing parts so it tips the scales at around 25 lbs. Handling wise this is perfect, but I do wish for a bit more travel on it, so I was thinking the 16" Reign may hit the spot. However now I am not sure; I think my wheelbase limit should be 43" (my 16" trance with a 100mm skareb fork has a 42" wheelbase)

    Perhaps my best solution would be a 5" rear travel frame, which would also shed about 2lbs compared to the Reign frame.

  8. #8
    CAK
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    I'm just the opposite...

    I love having the long wheelbase. The bike is super stable on scary technical trails with rock gardens, ruts etc. The bike is not on the light side but is not bad for a 6" travel bike. The suspension on the Reign is awesome. I'm coming from a single pivot 5" full sus and the difference is night and day. The Reign just rolls over anything. I find the steering is not slow, not fast but just right for trail riding.

    The 16" frame fits me like a glove also. I'm 5'7" and have a Thomson 90mm stem. Take a look at the Turner 5 spot and 6 pack geometry. Turners have long wheelbases, I think that contributes allot to their inherent stability that people love about them. My Reign gives me that same feeling.

    But back to the topic, I still think their chart is off one size.
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  9. #9
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    Wait - are you trying to say that the chart is off one size, CAK???


    I like my 20" Reign, so I couldn't care less what the measurements are. It feels nice, so I ride it. I test rode a couple, and find the TT measurement is right, so that's all that mattered to me.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAK
    But back to the topic, I still think their chart is off one size.
    Look at the diagram

  11. #11
    CAK
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    Quote Originally Posted by loco-gringo
    Wait - are you trying to say that the chart is off one size, CAK???


    I like my 20" Reign, so I couldn't care less what the measurements are. It feels nice, so I ride it. I test rode a couple, and find the TT measurement is right, so that's all that mattered to me.
    Yes, the point of the post was to inform people that the chart posted on Giants web site may be wrong. It doesn't bother me in the least bit either that the numbers are wrong but I had the opportunity to test ride/fit the bike first. Some people cant test ride first or buy based on specific frame dimensions. It seems reasonable that the numbers should be accurate.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAK
    Yes, the point of the post was to inform people that the chart posted on Giants web site may be wrong. It doesn't bother me in the least bit either that the numbers are wrong but I had the opportunity to test ride/fit the bike first. Some people cant test ride first or buy based on specific frame dimensions. It seems reasonable that the numbers should be accurate.
    I agree. I think they should be pretty close as well.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by CAK
    Giants web site Reign geometry chart seems way outa wack. My '05 16" Reign has a 43.75" wheel base, a 68.5 degree head angle and a 71 degree seat tube angle.
    Pretty hard to get a accurate head < measurement off the surface table what w/different fork lengths, tire sizes and a handheld angle-finder.

    Make sure the axle to crown distance of your fork measures 515mm w/exactly the same tires mounted to achieve your "ballpark" figure.

  14. #14
    CAK
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    Quote Originally Posted by tungsten
    Pretty hard to get a accurate head < measurement off the surface table what w/different fork lengths, tire sizes and a handheld angle-finder.

    Make sure the axle to crown distance of your fork measures 515mm w/exactly the same tires mounted to achieve your "ballpark" figure.
    I took the head angle off the uncut steer tube mounted on the bike. Measured, flipped the bike 180 degree's and re-measured incase my garage floor is not level and took the average of the two. I have used this same technique on several (at least four) different bikes and measured them to the "T" of manufacturer specs.

    The axle to crown won't change with different tires and as long as your using the same size tire front to rear it won't change the HA or the SA measurement, however larger or smaller tires will change bb height. A to Crown is 518mm, '06 Nixon Elite w/ TPC+.
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  15. #15
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    My Trance 1 specs were off too...

    The effective TT was actually 23.5" rather than 24.1" for my large. I posted photos on another thread in this Giant forum.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  16. #16
    CAK
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    Hmmm,

    What's your wheelbase, axle to axle?

    The TT and Seat tube length measurements on my Reign were spot on. Looks like, according to Giants web site and your measurments your riding an 18". What's your seat tube length (A) on chart?
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  17. #17
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    Simple solution = There's a focking retard/company doing the web site for GIANT, 'cause there's loads of mistake alll over the site for different things, parts etc or there's a retard at GIANT giving out the info to the web designer
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  18. #18
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    '05 Reign 3 with a Marzocchi AM1 at 150mm => 46.5" WB. That is not the most accurate measurement but it does indicate a real world WB longer than spec. Of course no stock Giant has an AM1 fork.

    Edit. Damn forgot to mention this is a 21" (XL) Reign.
    Last edited by NormanPCN; 06-05-2006 at 01:01 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Simple solution = There's a focking retard/company doing the web site for GIANT, 'cause there's loads of mistake alll over the site for different things, parts etc or there's a retard at GIANT giving out the info to the web designer





    Why don't you point that out at this forum. Maybe the mod. there can resolve some of the issues raised here.
















    Last edited by tungsten; 06-05-2006 at 11:56 AM.

  20. #20
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    Nope it's a 20"..

    Quote Originally Posted by CAK
    What's your wheelbase, axle to axle?

    The TT and Seat tube length measurements on my Reign were spot on. Looks like, according to Giants web site and your measurments your riding an 18". What's your seat tube length (A) on chart?
    of course I measured the seat tube at 20". I have a long torso for my 5'-11" height so a got the 20 but to run the cockpit low. My stem is upside down with the riser bars and the seat is a little low. The head tube on this frame is long and the top tube is rather high on the forward end!

    In the end the bike feels perfect and rides like a champ. The only regret is the high top tube on the forward end where it meets the head tube.

  21. #21
    CAK
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    I'd Kill for a Nobel Peace Prize.

  22. #22
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    'Cause if GIANT really gave a fukc, like other manufacturers and like smart business people they would monitor MTBR and especially this site for customer feedback and issues.

    They screw themselves on the smallest little things... like on my Trance the bolt that is used for the top of the shock mount had threads 1/2 way along which runs on the bushing and wore it the hell out. The bearing issue is another thing that's scared away a few propestive buyers and they aren't stepping up to the plate consistantly to offer replacements to original Maestro owners w/ the focked raced bearings and also the nonsense of the OEM headset that lets all the crap in the bottom because it's missing the bottom dust cover/seal.

    Don't get me wrong, I love my Trance (as can be witnessed on these boards) but GIANT really used the general public as testers for Maestro in the 1st year and hasn't treated them properly and stepped up to remeady their mistakes that were on that 1st years bikes - stupid a$$ mistakes that shouldn't be made by compitent engineers.

    Quote Originally Posted by tungsten
    Why don't you point that out at this forum. Maybe the mod. there can resolve some of the issues raised here.
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  23. #23
    CAK
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    About that headset seal...

    I noticed this when I recently replaced my fork, nice and gritty lower race that was full of dirt. Is there supose to be a dust seal there and it was just forgotten but one does exist? Can I get it from Aheadset or is it just a bad headset design and there's nothing I can do about it short of replacing it?
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  24. #24
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    I have read that on the RETAIL version of the same headset GIANT uses there IS a seal to help block dust/dirt, however on the OEM version there isn't. Don't know if it's a cost cutting measure or what, either way not good. I visited the Maestro forum there and there was a suggestion about using a piece of an old inner tube which sounds like it might work - I have put a piece on this morning and will see how it goes. I previously had cut apart a chainstay protector and was using that, but still crud was getting in.

    Quote Originally Posted by CAK
    I noticed this when I recently replaced my fork, nice and gritty lower race that was full of dirt. Is there supose to be a dust seal there and it was just forgotten but one does exist? Can I get it from Aheadset or is it just a bad headset design and there's nothing I can do about it short of replacing it?
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    but GIANT really used the general public as testers for Maestro in the 1st year .
    What company everywhere making anythng doesn't do that?

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