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Giant qualty VS. US makers

2K views 20 replies 15 participants last post by  poorboy006 
#1 ·
We sate around with the new guy at the shop tonight drinking beers and shooting the ****. He is trying to tell is we need to push to get a small brand in like IF or Seven. He keeps trying to tell us that Giant is isn’t any good just because its made in Taiwan. I spent most of the night trying to make him understand that the made in the US sticker doesn’t make one bike better then any other. I still cant believe that people think this way. Its so close minded. It cracks me up when people just cant brake a bike down to the raw materials and look at it that way. We are all getting the raw tubing from the same places. Steel, Tie, and aluminum are basically the same is all about the way its but together and the geometry. He just couldn’t admit that frame welders in Taiwan are as good as here in the US and he still thinks its all 10year old kids doing the work there.
 
#2 ·
Talk is cheap.

pulser said:
We sate around with the new guy at the shop tonight drinking beers and shooting the ****. He is trying to tell is we need to push to get a small brand in like IF or Seven. He keeps trying to tell us that Giant is isn?t any good just because its made in Taiwan. I spent most of the night trying to make him understand that the made in the US sticker doesn?t make one bike better then any other. I still cant believe that people think this way. Its so close minded. It cracks me up when people just cant brake a bike down to the raw materials and look at it that way. We are all getting the raw tubing from the same places. Steel, Tie, and aluminum are basically the same is all about the way its but together and the geometry. He just couldn?t admit that frame welders in Taiwan are as good as here in the US and he still thinks its all 10year old kids doing the work there.
Ask him to show you this and I do not mean comparing a custom bike, like a Seven, to a Giant. I wish he was right, but show him a Trek and a Giant side by side. Also, let him read the article in "Bike" from a couple months ago about Taiwan bike industry.

Brian
 
#3 ·
You always get those folk that talk out of their A$$ about bikes. Giant are basically a benchmark of good quality, reliable, well welded bikes. Sevens and alike are stunning bikes with good craftsman ship, but lets not confuse a botique bike with a mass produced one.

I own an American owned bike and a Taiwan made bike and I tell you what, both are stunning pieces of work. The American one has amazing welds and the Taiwanese made one featuring fantastic carbon technology.

Its a crack up listening to people pontificate about how anything non US made is not good enough. Taiwan and alike are clear leaders with bike technology.
 
#4 ·
Sounds like beer bravado to me

He's also comparing apples to oranges, as mentioned in one of the previous posts. Hand made boutique bikes shouldn't be compared to the mass produced bikes. Your buddy should also have the common business sense to understand that there are needs for both on the showroom floor. While boutique bikes are many times the finest example of engineering, design, craftsmanship and quality, not everyone can lay out that kind of money. For most of us, a well built, mass produced bike is the only option.

With that said, Giant has positioned themselves as one of, if not THE premier manufacturer of quality mass produced bikes. (Please, no comments regarding the manufacturing prowess of Pacific) It's a well known and even published fact that Giant is an OEM for other brands. Their web site claims that 30% of their production is dedicated to OEM. That fact alone should say something regarding the quality of the product they produce.

Your friends comments do not go without some degree of understanding of his point. I do my best to buy American, and happen to feel that as Americans, we should try to buy products made in the USA. Simple economics just don't always allow it. I would guess that his points stem mostly from a patriotic point of view, and a sense of frustration that American manufacturing can not compete against others on a dollar for dollar basis.

Just my thoughts.

Clyde
 
#5 ·
The welds I see on the giant bikes that I sell are as good as anything else (aluminum) out there, save Ventanna and maybe one or two other manufacturers, and even then it's not a big difference.

Tiawan is highly industrialized and skilled. They will also make whatever you spec, if you ask for a cheap bike made with pot-metal and crap-ass welds, they'll make that. If you spec a high end aluminum alloy with great welds, they'll make that too. It's all about what you want them to make, and they'll make it.

There aren't a whole lot of manufacturers in the "US" that even make their own frames. Many are made by Annodizing Inc. and a few other companies.

We invented many kinds of technologys, but it's always only a matter of time before someone else figures out how to do it faster and better. We're never going to be able to compete in terms of manufacturing and producing goods, it's all about the innovation of technology and proceedures. That's the only way we stay on top.
 
#6 ·
Jm. said:
The welds I see on the giant bikes that I sell are as good as anything else (aluminum) out there, save Ventanna and maybe one or two other manufacturers, and even then it's not a big difference.

Tiawan is highly industrialized and skilled. They will also make whatever you spec, if you ask for a cheap bike made with pot-metal and crap-ass welds, they'll make that. If you spec a high end aluminum alloy with great welds, they'll make that too. It's all about what you want them to make, and they'll make it.

There aren't a whole lot of manufacturers in the "US" that even make their own frames. Many are made by Annodizing Inc. and a few other companies.

We invented many kinds of technologys, but it's always only a matter of time before someone else figures out how to do it faster and better. We're never going to be able to compete in terms of manufacturing and producing goods, it's all about the innovation of technology and proceedures. That's the only way we stay on top.
Just to put my two cents in, Giant is the largest manufacture of bicycles in the world. They do not have to source out anything, because everything is done inhouse. The own their own tubing mills and have their own carbon factory. Their quality is second to none. Like someone else said they make bikes for other companies. Did you know that Merida owns 50% of Specialized and Merida has Giant makes their bikes.What's up with that?They also make all the treks under $500.00.I am a owner of a new 05 Trance and it is on par with my Ventana Pantera quality wise.
 
#7 ·
pulser said:
We sate around with the new guy at the shop tonight drinking beers and shooting the ****. He is trying to tell is we need to push to get a small brand in like IF or Seven. He keeps trying to tell us that Giant is isn�t any good just because its made in Taiwan. I spent most of the night trying to make him understand that the made in the US sticker doesn�t make one bike better then any other. I still cant believe that people think this way. Its so close minded. It cracks me up when people just cant brake a bike down to the raw materials and look at it that way. We are all getting the raw tubing from the same places. Steel, Tie, and aluminum are basically the same is all about the way its but together and the geometry. He just couldn�t admit that frame welders in Taiwan are as good as here in the US and he still thinks its all 10year old kids doing the work there.
To get better quality you probably have to go Ventana and Titus (with their titanium or exogrid masterpieces) and a few other costum builders. But high end Taiwanese bikes, especially in carbon, are just stunning and at the forefront of bike design and the aluminum work at Giant is first rate.
 
#9 ·
Good Thred this one

A very worth while topic.....like it was previously stated in this thread, if you take off the paint and the name its all just alloy and welds and angles...another point.....before my vt i had an intense tracer, it was a nice bike untill the pivot bolt snapped. I found out intences supplyers of the bolt made dodgy bolts...then the frame cracked where the seat tube meets the seat mast. later i found out a lot of the tracers were doing this. It was out of warranty so i got it fixed myself.Also the design of the bike caused premature rear mec cable wear causing the gears to play up.A REAL PAIN. and the welds were really uneven. And thats not all the problems. I sold it to buy a VT. WHICH KICKED ITS ASS. or butt if its edited. The vt has been flawless except for the shim..when i sold the tracer i lost thousands because of the repaired frame..
Giant sell thousands more bikes then the exotic brands, this gives then the advantage of product evolution and rapid field testing and feed back by folks like you and me. and as for the saying if it not hade made its inferior...huh...to bad if the guy welding your dream bike had a barney with his wife before work or is hung over a bit shakey handed. Robots can bet set and repeat the same process over and over again,, and there minds don't wonder...to me the best bike has a lot to do with the ride you get for your money. most exotic bikes are at least twice as expensive as a giant, but from my experiance they dont even ride half as good.Let a lone twice as good.
 
#11 ·
Giants are some of the best bikes money can buy. Period. And you don't have to renegotiate your house's mortgage to get one.

What they do is impressive. I had a bike from their lower line. A Warp. And I was amazed by the quality of the frame. Hydroformed tubes, robust bearings, impecable welds (and I've seen some welds on several materials and several applications), impressive alignment, a shock that simply works, 5" AND 4" inches travel, a neat work all around the bike and frame.

I've seen Cannondales (beautiful finishes at the welds these bikes have), Treks, KHS's, GT's, a couple of Intenses and stuff.... and the Warp frame is, quality wise, as good as any..... and that's a 200 bucks frame!!! Simply Amazing. It may be made from lower quality Al, but hey, for the money it can seriously kick the arse of an Ellsworth Joker/Distance and take a beating as good as a Heckler, costing three times less. Put a 5th Element or RP3 on that bike and you'll wonder why to buy a single pivot SC or Ellsworth.

Giant's top notch.... anyone had been close to one of their road carbon frames??? Those are real beauties.

My next bike will be built around a Warp frame. If I would have the bucks I would even go for a VT frame.
 
#12 ·
I used to be a Giant fan until this year. I had been looking to buy a new Giant to replace my ATX 760. I went to every Giant dealer listed on their website in south Orange County. All the shops either had poor stock or no stock of Giants. All the shops tried to push me in to another brand. I found this odd since Giant is based in SOCAL. When I tried to get online to contact them I found they have no way to contact them. This made me wonder how much they really care about the customer. I am now picking up my new 05 Trek Fuel 80 after previously owning nothing but Giant.
 
#13 ·
quicktsi said:
I used to be a Giant fan until this year. I had been looking to buy a new Giant to replace my ATX 760. I went to every Giant dealer listed on their website in south Orange County. All the shops either had poor stock or no stock of Giants. All the shops tried to push me in to another brand. I found this odd since Giant is based in SOCAL. When I tried to get online to contact them I found they have no way to contact them. This made me wonder how much they really care about the customer. I am now picking up my new 05 Trek Fuel 80 after previously owning nothing but Giant.
Just a thought, but they were likely out of stock due to their popularity and reliability. I would suggest that your reply is not relative to the title of the post. Your experience is unfortunate in that you had to find an alternative, but it does it not relevant to the quality of their products. In reference to your situation, Giant relies on their dealer network so they do not have massive amounts of folks chasing them for things such as these. I might suggest finding a better dealer who could chase one down for you.

:confused:
 
#14 ·
mtbmeister said:
Just a thought, but they were likely out of stock due to their popularity and reliability. I would suggest that your reply is not relative to the title of the post. Your experience is unfortunate in that you had to find an alternative, but it does it not relevant to the quality of their products. In reference to your situation, Giant relies on their dealer network so they do not have massive amounts of folks chasing them for things such as these. I might suggest finding a better dealer who could chase one down for you.

:confused:
I went to every dealer in South Orange County California. If the dealer network is trying to switch the customer, what will happen if nobody can contact Giant? Think they might wonder why their business is down? I could have bought a Giant, but what if my LBS stopped carrying Giant. How would I contact them for warranty issues? Even Ford has a way to contact them by e-mail?
 
#15 ·
quicktsi said:
I went to every dealer in South Orange County California. If the dealer network is trying to switch the customer, what will happen if nobody can contact Giant? Think they might wonder why their business is down? I could have bought a Giant, but what if my LBS stopped carrying Giant. How would I contact them for warranty issues? Even Ford has a way to contact them by e-mail?
I hear what you are saying, but I also was looking at picking up a 2004 NRS 1 this past fall (I am in Canada). When I went to my dealer, they were immediately able to tell me how many Giant even had still available at retail locations. Also, you don't contact Giant directly for warranty issues, you go through your LBS. And as you may have seen on some other posts here, Giant's warranty dept is top notch in respect to dealing with claims. It's unfortunate there's a middle man, but due to the vast quantities of sales they do, it would probably take you forever to get your claim processed if Giant handled them. Just some thoughts. Good luck with your Trek. Hopefully you didn't pay out the nose for a lesser bike than the equivalent Giant... ;)
 
#16 ·
mtbmeister said:
I hear what you are saying, but I also was looking at picking up a 2004 NRS 1 this past fall (I am in Canada). When I went to my dealer, they were immediately able to tell me how many Giant even had still available at retail locations. Also, you don't contact Giant directly for warranty issues, you go through your LBS. And as you may have seen on some other posts here, Giant's warranty dept is top notch in respect to dealing with claims. It's unfortunate there's a middle man, but due to the vast quantities of sales they do, it would probably take you forever to get your claim processed if Giant handled them. Just some thoughts. Good luck with your Trek. Hopefully you didn't pay out the nose for a lesser bike than the equivalent Giant... ;)
I am a Giant dealer and all we carry is Giant's, so I you want a selection we have it for you. Feel free to look us up on the web, at finishlinebikes.com. I'm sorry to here other shops are trying to sell you something you don't want.

Dan Mitchell
 
#18 ·
DeeEight said:
No merida owns 49% of specialized, and as to giant making bikes for merida, doubtful. Giant making bikes for specialized, that's true.
I wrote the info down wrong, Giant does make all Specialized bikes under $500.00 but does not make any of Meridia's bikes. Which is odd because Meridia is a bike manufactuer. Makes you wonder......
 
#19 ·
i would agree that giant makes all hell of an aluminum frame (i own 2) as for overseas carbon frames i would be weary. Giant practices a form of building carbon frames using and internal air bladder and lots of clay. Any voids created by uneven air inflation leaves room for filler,in this case, clay. These frames fall far below the quality of american made carbon frames by the likes of trek. I you ever brake one look in the lugs, you will see both plastic from teh air bladder as well as the clay puttyto fill the voids. Point being, the aluminum frames from overseas are nice if not nicer then our homegrown made frames, but the carbon frames, just watch out.
 
#20 ·
poorboy006 said:
i would agree that giant makes all hell of an aluminum frame (i own 2) as for overseas carbon frames i would be weary. Giant practices a form of building carbon frames using and internal air bladder and lots of clay. Any voids created by uneven air inflation leaves room for filler,in this case, clay. These frames fall far below the quality of american made carbon frames by the likes of trek. I you ever brake one look in the lugs, you will see both plastic from teh air bladder as well as the clay puttyto fill the voids. Point being, the aluminum frames from overseas are nice if not nicer then our homegrown made frames, but the carbon frames, just watch out.
If you knew anything you would know that Giant's do not use lug to put them together, they are a 1 piece frame no lugs or glue unlike Trek's which you can visibly see in their ultra high end Madone's. I have never seen any clay or plastic in a frame. Trek sources out for their carbon and Giant does everything inhouse so the quality control is much better than Trek's.
 
#21 ·
danmtchl said:
If you knew anything you would know that Giant's do not use lug to put them together, they are a 1 piece frame no lugs or glue unlike Trek's which you can visibly see in their ultra high end Madone's. I have never seen any clay or plastic in a frame. Trek sources out for their carbon and Giant does everything inhouse so the quality control is much better than Trek's.
First off by lug I mean the area. i.e. bottom bracket, headtube assembly. Its too bad you haven't seen any clay, cause either your blind or have not seen the actual INSIDE of the frame, which I have from both giant and specialized. FYI the bonded areas you speak of that are glued together are as strong if not stronger then any other part of the frame (overlapping). Both giant and trek source out for the sheets of carbon used to build their frames. So without getting overly personal and anal in your case, do some more research by cutting YOUR frame in half, noticing both clay and plastic (formally of an air bag). Then you can. Now that you know that I know more than you, you can learn to be alittle bit more causious before you start rambling on.

Also, I am not slamming Giant's since like I said,I own two. On the idea of aluminum frames, Giants are just as good as any other out there. On carbon frames made overseas though, american's still got em beat! GO LANCE
 
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