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  1. #1
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    Giant Anthem 2011 RP 23 to RT3

    Hi there, quick questions re: rear shocks on Anthem x 29ers.

    I am considering swapping out my RP23 on my 2011 Anthem 29er for a Monarch RT3. The reason being is that I need to run a high PSI to get a low bob shock on the "road/fire trail" but then on the trial I struggle to use all the travel as the shock is to stiff.

    1. does anyone know the "tune" of a standard RT3 on the 2012 Anthem 29er 0?
    2. what is the cheapest anyone has found an RT3 on the web?
    3. has anyone done this mod, and recommended the same? From reviewing the web it sounds like a bit of mix bag.
    Thanks in advance.

    Rob

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwibert View Post

    1. does anyone know the "tune" of a standard RT3 on the 2012 Anthem 29er 0?
    LM is what mine came with.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jossa View Post
    LM is what mine came with.
    I've used L Comp tune RT3 on several bikes and it's a higher comp tune than the Rp23 M comp tune. They will nearly all come with med rebound.The L comp RP23 is very active !. Good on the trail as it sucks up the sharp edge hits well. But not so good on the climbs if you don't use propedal.
    The RT3 L gives a nice supportive climbing action but you loose out on the trail. Won't be as bad as what you are doing by over compensating with air pressure on the RP23. I was surprised how liitle effect adding air pressure was at reducing bob on my Trance x which also has the L comp tune shock.Higher comp tune is the answer.

    The propedal is however very effective. One of the reviews said Giant recommends using propedal in 2 posn as normal riding mode.

    I run 28 to 30% sag both ends and it sucks up the trail really well. If I'm worried about the climbs or racing I will use propedal all the time. It opens up the envelope of the bike.

    Do some runs with varying pressure and propedal on and off.

    I'm 72 kg nett and I found the following travel used in mm:

    135 psi
    Sag 13 Downhill 34 Technical climbing 29

    140 psi
    Sag 13 DH 33 Climb 28

    145 psi
    sag 12 DH 32 climb 28

    150 psi
    Sag 12 DH 32 climb 28

    I settled on 140 psi as giving best feel and avg results. I then did a run to try and bottom out the shock seated down a G out after a downhill ramp and got 35 mm travel. Notice how much travel you do use on a climb. Same for all bikes. It's because the comp damping has less effect. Dh however, Comp damping kicks in.

    I then did same tests with propedal, all using 140 psi.

    Propedal 1
    DH 32 climb 22

    propedal 2
    DH 28 climb 19

    propedal 3
    DH 28 climb 29

    So you can see using propedal 1 has very little effect on your travel over the trail but dramatically limits travel climbing . Propedal 3 however is a surprise. I think as it is a type of blow off valve the added restriction at propedal 3 actually blows through easier on a technical climb. Good for road and forrest road climbs. As Giant recommends propedal 2 is best avg results.

    I suggest if your racing go with the RT3. It has a starchy supportive efficient feel . From experience you will be able to squeeze the extra 3mm travel in a g out but will end up with same or less travel over general trail DH, due to firmer comp damping.

    If your trail riding I would stick with RP23. if you need the extra 3mm on a g out then add a xv air sleeve and maybe need to add 5 psi air pressure. From experience you will get the extra 3mm squeeze on the g out and get same if better travel on the general trail DH, but will not affect the lower end much. Use the propedal on the climbs. Your get a more versatile trail bike. Seems to be the way many mfg including Giant are doing over the last couple of years. Trance x and Reign for example.

  4. #4
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    Thanks gvs_nz, very useful information.

  5. #5
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    Although slighty different, I upgraded my RP3 on my Trance to the Monarch 4.2
    The model just before the RT(3) series Monarchs.

    WORLD of a difference! Monarch has much better mid stroke support and it's nice to be able to 'tune' the gate for platform. Along with ability to tune the IFP pressure is what you're looking for.
    Mine came with a M comp piston assembly. While that rode fine, I wanted a little more support on the comp since the Maestro uses a high shock ratio. 3:1

    I ended up purchasing a H comp piston assembly and have been very happy with the shock's performance the last 4 months. Much better than the Fox & I can rebuild, recharge, heck even swap out piston assemblies that are available aftermarket, right at home.

    Try that with a Fox.....I have seen the RS light

  6. #6
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    Guys

    Having Anthem 29
    I'm planning to swap my Monarch RT to RT3.
    First of all my monarch RT is signed LM (L-rebound, M-compression)

    My questions are:
    Is there available LM RT3 on the market ? I see only MM - or maybe i'm blind
    What would be the difference comparing LM to MM?
    As i see anthem shoud go with standard 165x38mm (no high volume) ?

  7. #7
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    Have a look at How to: Monarch R conversion to RT3 for $37 and 23 easy steps!
    Just done this, test ride this weekend.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapsac View Post
    Have a look at How to: Monarch R conversion to RT3 for $37 and 23 easy steps!
    Just done this, test ride this weekend.
    This doesn't answere my questions.

    Is there available LM RT3 on the market ? I see only MM - or maybe i'm blind
    What would be the difference comparing LM to MM?
    As i see anthem shoud go with standard 165x38mm (no high volume) ?

    I'm going to replace my MonarchRT - have good deal from buyer.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    This doesn't answere my questions.
    No I did not. I gave you an alternative that costs 30 to 40 dollars to upgrade your RT to a RT3... Pretty good deal if you ask me.
    But have a look at a german webshop: www.bike-discount.de They have a lot of versions. Or look at gabelprofi.de

    Edit: after looking around your best bet may be to buy it through a Giant dealer from Giant. Did see one on ebay (seller thegearattic).
    Last edited by rapsac; 12-30-2012 at 12:32 AM.
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  10. #10
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    To follow up on my previous post...
    I somehow managed to bodge the rebuild, so the rebound rod is now stuck.
    Will be ordering an RT3 myself as well :-) and replace the messed up compression/rebound rod later.

    When I look at the Giant pictures on their website it looks like the 2013 bikes with the 2013 Monarch RT3 (blue lever rotates 360 degrees with 120 degrees between clicks) are equipped with a MM tune? (small red and blue sticker at right hand side of shock near the valve).
    However, a photo of a 2013 frameset with a 2013 Monarch RT3 in a shop shows a LM tune... Weird.




    I also asked Giant but due to holidays they are quite slow. If I order a shock tomorrow I can bike next weekend :-)

    So, any 2013 RS Monarch RT3 users can give their shock tune? Thanks.

    (and happy new year)
    Last edited by rapsac; 01-01-2013 at 01:34 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Me also curious of Giant backup.
    Wonder what is particular difference between LM and MM. Will anyone be able to feel it on bike...moreover i didn't managed to find LM on web.

  12. #12
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    As I understood the L rebound tune means less rebound damping than the M rebound tune. So, it should be a bit "faster" on rebound. The L and M tunes are partially overlapping.
    To make it a bit more difficult, the 2013 Monarch models have now "Rapid Recovery" tech, which should improve rebound from large hits acc to RS.
    From the exploded view diagrams it looks like the flow ports on the compr/rebound rod are a bit bigger.
    Maybe a reason why MM tune may work now? Or just wishful thinking ;-)
    Anyway, very interested in 2013 owners shock tune.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    This doesn't answere my questions.

    Is there available LM RT3 on the market ? I see only MM - or maybe i'm blind
    What would be the difference comparing LM to MM?
    As i see anthem shoud go with standard 165x38mm (no high volume) ?

    I'm going to replace my MonarchRT - have good deal from buyer.
    All afternarket monarchs nearly always use a M rebound. MM is medium comp and rebound.
    Giant choose to use a low comp tune for RS. Probably a custom version . There's not actually a huge difference in riding fox L velocity or RS L comp tune on the AX. To make any large difference you will need a MM tune monarch.

    IMHO the LM is better for trail use if your prepared to use the mid platform when you want to rest the legs a bit climbing or for racing. It is a smooth blow off and only makes a slightly harsher ride when at speed and you get to bottom out nicely using full travel. The L comp tune is smoother on high speed hits.Higher comp tune will firm up pedalling but also make it harsher over big hits and restrict your travel a bit. You can however let the pressure down to compensate, compromising a bit of the pedalling advantage. It actually works quite well as a means of using more travel but still pedalling ok.That's the advantage of the RS shocks as you can experiment a bit. Either shock you can customise by changing the oil weights. It's a very simple process and they are very sensitive to different oil weights.
    Last edited by gvs_nz; 01-02-2013 at 09:50 PM.

  14. #14
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    Thanks, but I think the Giant LM tune is L rebound and M compression. Note that the L is red and the M is blue.
    So, speccing a L (faster) rebound may have something to do with the leverage of the shock? Or are Giant Anthem riders just heavy :-)
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  15. #15
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    How about the New Monarch XX w/lockout for those of us that race the Anthem??? Or any other lockout shock? Anyone done that? I have a RP3 and do not notice anything when in ProPedal....I weigh 190 and put 205 +/- in there for trail and racing

  16. #16
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    I just checked my 2013 Anthem Advanced X29er 0. It has the LM tune.

    If you are looking for a lockout for your Anthems rear suspension, you are riding the wrong bike. MO.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    I just checked my 2013 Anthem Advanced X29er 0. It has the LM tune.

    If you are looking for a lockout for your Anthems rear suspension, you are riding the wrong bike. MO.
    dont worry not taking it personal, but I have had back surgery, but am still able to ride/race and I even have barends on my Anthem and love em, next is lockout, if I am on a gravel road for 4 miles of a 17 mile race why is it wrong to lockout and then when the bumpy tech stuff comes to open her right back up?

    IMHO it is what u feel comfy with, but my general observation/thought/reasoning if you have one bike, why not get as-close-as possible to the best of both worlds...and pls don't go into the HT vs FS etc or for that matter SS vs geared....just as I feel I may sometimes (or more often like a HT on a section of a ride/race) like a HT there are you guys that have wanted adn or wished they had FS just for that one section and or ride/race....I think I am just open minded

  18. #18
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    No worries, I get what you are saying. With the design of the Maestro suspension though, it barely needs a platform shock to minimize pedal bob. I'll flip mine over to the max platform setting on fireroads and it feels like a lockout but still allows the suspension to cycle if it needs to. I also have a bad back and I appreciate being able to let my bike do what it was designed to do.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    All afternarket monarchs nearly always use a M rebound. MM is medium comp and rebound. LM Low comp and Med rebound.
    To make any large difference you will need a MM tune monarch.

    IMHO the LM is better for trail use if your prepared to use the mid platform when you want to rest the legs a bit climbing or for racing. It is a smooth blow off and only makes a slightly harsher ride when at speed and you get to bottom out nicely using full travel. The L comp tune is smoother on high speed hits.Higher comp tune will firm up pedalling but also make it harsher over big hits and restrict your travel a bit. You can however let the pressure down to compensate, compromising a bit of the pedalling advantage. It actually works quite well as a means of using more travel but still pedalling ok.That's the advantage of the RS shocks as you can experiment a bit. Either shock you can customise by changing the oil weights. It's a very simple process and they are very sensitive to different oil weights.
    So summing up:

    LM - practically no way to get this separately on market.
    MM - more harash, less sensitivity, better for climb or race, could be compensated by lower pressure.

    Well Giant went to LM showing that maestro can be efficient enough with that tune. I'm a bit worried if MM will stiffer the suspension too much.

  20. #20
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    No, the difference between LM and MM is the rebound. (apart from other possible changes Giant asked RS to do on the shim stacks) On a L rebound tune this is a bit faster than on a M rebound tune, but there is overlap. If the rebound on the M rebound is fast enough for you or me? Don't know.
    It definitely is possible to purchase a L rebound M compression tune shock, but on special order.
    At Gabelprofi.de you can order it in pieces, waiting for an answer if I can buy it complete. Also asked a Giant concept store, waiting for an answer as well.
    As mentioned seen an ebay auction for a new 2011/2012 RT3 in LM.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapsac View Post
    No, the difference between LM and MM is the rebound. (apart from other possible changes Giant asked RS to do on the shim stacks) On a L rebound tune this is a bit faster than on a M rebound tune, but there is overlap. If the rebound on the M rebound is fast enough for you or me? Don't know.
    It definitely is possible to purchase a L rebound M compression tune shock, but on special order.
    At Gabelprofi.de you can order it in pieces, waiting for an answer if I can buy it complete. Also asked a Giant concept store, waiting for an answer as well.
    As mentioned seen an ebay auction for a new 2011/2012 RT3 in LM.
    Just received an email reply from the Giant concept store: can not order a shock though Giant (in Netherlands)... Apart from that I asked about the shock tune, reply was: it is normal....
    Alas they do not seem to know what they are talking about (the shop).
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  22. #22
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    Sorry I meant M L and MM on my previous posts. I've got 1/2 doz aftermarket RT3's and they always come with M rebound even if you order L comp. Can't see why they spec L rebound on both RS and Fox. On most of my bikes that have M rebound tune, they are set at about 1/2 rebound, and I'm light and only run 140- 150 psi.Lots of rebound doesn't appear to affect the comp tune as it does on some RP23's.Too little rebound and they all start feeling loose in the back end.


    Believe me they do bob in the L comp tune and plenty of sag.But it's great as a trail tune. They've lowered the anti squat on the Ax 29er from say the TX26" , and it's even lower with more sag. But it sucks up trail well and has less brake squat. Lots of sag and a RT3 is the only way to get the full use of it's travel and make it more versatile as a trail bike. The boost valve Rp23 pulls up short no matter how much sag.The RP23 , however ,is smoother than the RT3 on trail chunder , even using less sag.Is just pulls up short when you hit those big dips and you are seated[ g outs]. Nice to have that little extra travel in those situations. Saves the back a bit.

    If you don't want to use the platform lever ,stick with the M comp tune and trial lower air pressure or oil weight if need be. Can't see why you'd need L rebound?
    Last edited by gvs_nz; 01-20-2013 at 02:34 PM.

  23. #23
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    Guys
    One silly question.
    Is there a serious difference between LM and MM. According to "rapsac" photos Giant equipes Anthems with MM now?
    Maybe ours LM are just unnoticeably different from MM or MM is just better and Giant admits that in 2013?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Placek View Post
    Guys
    One silly question.
    Is there a serious difference between LM and MM. According to "rapsac" photos Giant equipes Anthems with MM now?
    Maybe ours LM are just unnoticeably different from MM or MM is just better and Giant admits that in 2013?

    It would take a truly sensitive backside to be able to tell the difference between the two. I love mine and how it rides. I don`t care if there is a different tune out there.

  25. #25
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    Hi Placek, although the website photos show MM, I contacted some users with 2013 bikes and all their shocks are LM...
    Also the ones with the 2013 Monarch. So, no help from that! Maybe the MM were readily available when making the pictures.
    Still waiting for the answer from Giant. I decided it would be faster to fix my broken rebound rod, than to wait for an answer from Giant NL :-(
    In NL they are very road bike oriented and the holidays didn't help either.
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