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  1. #1
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    Comparison between a 5.5 Turner Spot and a Trance X?

    I know one's a 5 1/2" bike (I have one, with a Pike) and the Trance X is 5". I'm looking for a more xc type frame than the Spot, even though the Spot is great for it's intended purpose (like, go to Moab, ride the gnarliest of trails, plow through babyheads, rinse, repeat). When I ride the Spot on my local trails...well, I like my 4" bikes better. So I'm looking for a 5" frame.

    Please, has anyone ridden both extensively and can give me hands-on experience info? I have a Revelation U-Turn Dual Air sitting in a box anxious to be mounted to a 5" frame.
    Last edited by xcguy; 06-01-2008 at 10:20 AM.
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  2. #2
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    I'd have thought the Spot was fairly similar to the TX? Maybe a little less efficient climbing, but otherwise much-of- a-muchness? The build would make the biggest discernible difference. Built light, the TX is a quick machine..

  3. #3
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    "Maybe less efficient climbing..."
    I havent ridden the Turner, but my x2 w/o Propedal or lockout climbs very efficiently!

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    What 4" bikes are you comparing the Spot to?

  5. #5
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    Here's what I feel like when I get on my Spot

    after riding my '07 Superlight: It just wants to tractor straight ahead and feels "heavier" even though it has a light build (28.7 lbs with the Pike). But it just feels so much different that I decided to only ride it on the gnarliest of trails. I'm not a DH kind of guy (check my mtbr name!) so I like a bike that feels light, steers light, climbs efficiently yet absorbs the bumps I encounter at the slower speeds I travel. When the Spot and me were Moab it did everything I wanted. Here...

    I'm thinking a 5" bike with steeper geometry might be what I'm looking for. I would like a direct comparison between the two bikes, though. Anybody?
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  6. #6
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    Here they are:

    Quote Originally Posted by deadbolt
    What 4" bikes are you comparing the Spot to?
    My great 2004 Turner Burner (you'd think it'd ride somewhat like the Spot but not at all, in my opinion) and my '07 Santa Cruz Superlight. Both just feel quicker yet plush enough. See my posting above. I know for a lot of riders' riding style the Spot would be the best bike they ever rode and I'm not saying it's not a great bike. It's just begging to go faster and faster on the descents and I'm not going to do that.

    I'm curious about the Maestro system. The proof is in the riding different suspension systems back to back on similar trails. I've been doing that on a few new bikes the past few years and it's a lot of fun. Who knows what the ideal bike would be for me but it's a kick trying to find out.
    Last edited by xcguy; 05-31-2008 at 02:35 PM.
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  7. #7
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    I was in a similar situation with my 575. I loved the ride, and built it burly, but I never pushed it the way it was intended (not due to lack of tough trails). Finally accepting that I had "XC leanings", I decided to try a 4" XC bike (an El Santo), but found that it skipped around too much and became nervous in the rough, xc trails that are the norm here in New England. My heavy duty hardtail (with parts transferred over from the Yeti) had it beat in that respect, but left my legs exhausted after just a few hours.

    I then tried the Trance X and found what could very well be that ONE perfect bike (for me). It accelerates much better than my Yeti (which weighed 30 - 31lbs), AND better than my lightweight El Santo. It maintains it's compusure in the rough and steep stuff w/o the couch like feel of the Yeti, but I still feel that is perfectly capable of being built race-light without straying from it's intended purpose (unlike a 575 or Spot).

    Bottom line, I think this is the bike you're hoping it will be, and I highly suggest you take one out for spin.

    Ant

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    My great 2004 Turner Burner (you'd think it'd ride somewhat like the Spot but not at all, in my opinion) and my '07 Santa Cruz Superlight. Both just feel quicker yet plush enough. See my posting above. I know for a lot of riders' riding style the Spot would be the best bike they ever rode and I'm not saying it's not a great bike. It's just begging to go faster and faster on the descents and I'm not going to do that.

    I'm curious about the Maestro system. The proof is in the riding different suspension systems back to back on similar trails. I've been doing that on a few new bikes the past few years and it's a lot of fun. Who knows what the ideal bike would be for me but it's a kick trying to find out.
    The Trance X geometry wise is pretty close to the 5spot. They are basically designed to do the same type of riding. The just use different suspensison designs. With the same fork, They will have just about the same head angle, wheelbase, toptube length. The only diff is the 5spot has a slightly shorter chainstay. Longer chainstays help with stability at speed but the difference is .3"
    If you are looking for a more XC ride you might want to look at the 4.2" travel Trance
    http://giant-bicycles.com/en-US/bike...in/1283/29371/
    Much steeper geometry, quicker handling, Maestro suspension!

  9. #9
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    How much is the Trance X? How much is the difference between 5.5 Spot and Trance X?

  10. #10
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    Frame costs (can't buy an already built up Spot)

    Quote Originally Posted by xtr444
    How much is the Trance X? How much is the difference between 5.5 Spot and Trance X?
    The 5.5 Spot is nearly $2k and the Trance X is $1.3k. Let's not get into a discussion about which is the "better value", all I'm concerned about on this thread is the ride.
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  11. #11
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    I bet you couldn't believe your 575 didn't work out for you

    Quote Originally Posted by antonio
    I was in a similar situation with my 575. I loved the ride, and built it burly, but I never pushed it the way it was intended (not due to lack of tough trails). Finally accepting that I had "XC leanings", I decided to try a 4" XC bike (an El Santo), but found that it skipped around too much and became nervous in the rough, xc trails that are the norm here in New England. My heavy duty hardtail (with parts transferred over from the Yeti) had it beat in that respect, but left my legs exhausted after just a few hours.

    I then tried the Trance X and found what could very well be that ONE perfect bike (for me). It accelerates much better than my Yeti (which weighed 30 - 31lbs), AND better than my lightweight El Santo. It maintains it's composure in the rough and steep stuff w/o the couch like feel of the Yeti, but I still feel that is perfectly capable of being built race-light without straying from it's intended purpose (unlike a 575 or Spot).

    Bottom line, I think this is the bike you're hoping it will be, and I highly suggest you take one out for spin.

    Ant
    "Intended purpose" is what I'm getting at. I ride with guys on Spots who accept what I am bothered about because...those are the traits they want! They can bomb downhill without having to pick a line, they can tractor through rock gardens full speed. So what if it doesn't climb or feel as quick as other bikes, their intended purpose is the Spot's intended purpose.

    I feel kinda guilty talking about my Spot this way but I just can't see keeping it in the basement most of the time and only taking it out for Moab.
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  12. #12
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    I compared the angles of both

    Quote Originally Posted by Haggis
    I'd have thought the Spot was fairly similar to the TX? Maybe a little less efficient climbing, but otherwise much-of- a-muchness? The build would make the biggest discernible difference. Built light, the TX is a quick machine..
    HA on the Trance X is 69.5, Spot is 69.

    ST angle on the Trance X is 73.5, Spot is 73.

    The Trance X therefore is a 1/2 degree steeper which doesn't sound like much, but the Spot is only one full degree steeper than my Burner but it just really feels different.

    Bottom bracket height with a 130mm fork on the Trance X is....? Spot w/140mm Pike is 13.6"

    Both wheelbases are the same. Chainstays are within .2 inch. Trance X frame weighs about 1/3 lb less but that doesn't matter. Standover is virtually the same.

    What a freakin' headtube on the Trance X! 5.7 inches, no cutting of your steering tube needed! The Spot is 4".

    It's mostly the effect Maestro has on the overall feel of the bike is mainly what I want to try out. The Spot with a Pike right now weighs 28.7 lbs. A 2008 Trance X frame built the same only with a Revelation would be in the high 27s. How anybody gets a 2008 Trance X built up to near 26 lbs is a mystery to me.

    I probably wouldn't sell the Spot frame, just transfer parts over to the Trance X frame and compare. Then sell one or the other.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    HA on the Trance X is 69.5, Spot is 69.

    ST angle on the Trance X is 73.5, Spot is 73.

    The Trance X therefore is a 1/2 degree steeper which doesn't sound like much, but the Spot is only one full degree steeper than my Burner but it just really feels different.

    Bottom bracket height with a 130mm fork on the Trance X is....? Spot w/140mm Pike is 13.6"

    Both wheelbases are the same. Chainstays are within .2 inch. Trance X frame weighs about 1/3 lb less but that doesn't matter. Standover is virtually the same.

    What a freakin' headtube on the Trance X! 5.7 inches, no cutting of your steering tube needed! The Spot is 4".

    It's mostly the effect Maestro has on the overall feel of the bike is mainly what I want to try out. The Spot with a Pike right now weighs 28.7 lbs. A 2008 Trance X frame built the same only with a Revelation would be in the high 27s. How anybody gets a 2008 Trance X built up to near 26 lbs is a mystery to me.

    I probably wouldn't sell the Spot frame, just transfer parts over to the Trance X frame and compare. Then sell one or the other.

    Let me say it again. The Trance X is not going to be any different geowise than the spot. It is designed for the same type of riding.
    The HA of the spot is 69 deg with a A2C fork of 515mm.
    The HA of the Trance X is 69.5 measured with a 130mm fork. If you put a Pike on it(A2C of 517mm) It will be 69 deg and seat tube will slack by half a degree as well at 73deg.

    If you buy a TranceX, you will be buying the same bike just with a different suspension design. Maybe the Trance X will be a tad more efficient but with what you describe about the 5spot, the Trance X will still stay in the basement.
    Get a TRANCE not a TRANCE X!

    As far as the 575 is concerned, With a 140mm fork, it has a HA of 68.5deg. WIth a 160mm fork it has a HA of 66.9deg. The Trance X is 69.5 (69deg with 140mm fork) so it is a bit different geowise.

    Again, from what you say, The TRANCE is the bike you should be looking at.

  14. #14
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    Thanks for you reply. Let me say that

    Quote Originally Posted by wormvine
    Let me say it again. The Trance X is not going to be any different geowise than the spot. It is designed for the same type of riding.
    The HA of the spot is 69 deg with a A2C fork of 515mm.
    The HA of the Trance X is 69.5 measured with a 130mm fork. If you put a Pike on it(A2C of 517mm) It will be 69 deg and seat tube will slack by half a degree as well at 73deg.

    If you buy a TranceX, you will be buying the same bike just with a different suspension design. Maybe the Trance X will be a tad more efficient but with what you describe about the 5spot, the Trance X will still stay in the basement.
    Get a TRANCE not a TRANCE X!

    As far as the 575 is concerned, With a 140mm fork, it has a HA of 68.5deg. WIth a 160mm fork it has a HA of 66.9deg. The Trance X is 69.5 (69deg with 140mm fork) so it is a bit different geowise.

    Again, from what you say, The TRANCE is the bike you should be looking at.
    I have no intention of putting the Pike on the Trance X, so the angles with a 130mm fork (Revelation) should be the 1/2 degree steeper difference I mentioned. I also have two 4" bikes that I'm happy with, so I'm not looking at the Trance. I'm also not considering the 575.

    Today I actually test rode a Trance XO (with a 120mm Fox) in the parking lot of an LBS. Funny thing, the salesman tried to talk up the new Trek when he found me checking out the Reign The first thing I noticed was the steering was quicker than the Spot but not by a ton. Integrated headset...I didn't know that. The medium fit me, it seemed pretty quick, but as we all know, parking lot tests don't tell us anything. I'm going to have to take a Trance X out on a few select trails to find out if the Maestro adds anything to the mix or if I'm better off with my Spot.

    It could very well be that how one tunes the suspension of his current bike has more to do with the ride than the suspension design itself...but that's a question that can be debated forever. The proof is in the riding.

    You think anyone who has actually ridden a 5.5 Spot back to back with a 2008 Trance X will respond to this thread?
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    I have no intention of putting the Pike on the Trance X, so the angles with a 130mm fork (Revelation) should be the 1/2 degree steeper difference I mentioned. I also have two 4" bikes that I'm happy with, so I'm not looking at the Trance. I'm also not considering the 575.

    Today I actually test rode a Trance XO (with a 120mm Fox) in the parking lot of an LBS. Funny thing, the salesman tried to talk up the new Trek when he found me checking out the Reign The first thing I noticed was the steering was quicker than the Spot but not by a ton. Integrated headset...I didn't know that. The medium fit me, it seemed pretty quick, but as we all know, parking lot tests don't tell us anything. I'm going to have to take a Trance X out on a few select trails to find out if the Maestro adds anything to the mix or if I'm better off with my Spot.

    It could very well be that how one tunes the suspension of his current bike has more to do with the ride than the suspension design itself...but that's a question that can be debated forever. The proof is in the riding.

    You think anyone who has actually ridden a 5.5 Spot back to back with a 2008 Trance X will respond to this thread?
    Did you cross post in the Turner forum? It might be hard to get objective opinions from the cool-aid drinkers though.

    But since you mentioned it, Why wouldn't you put the PIKE on the TranceX. It should be on the TranceX. I personally would want more travel on the front of the bike than on the rear. Or in other words less travel in the front than back. Wait never mind 130mm is 5" so that would be a perfect match. I wouldn't give up 20mm TA though.
    Last edited by wormvine; 06-01-2008 at 05:52 PM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    Integrated headset...I didn't know that.
    Headset ain't integrated. It's just zero stack.They are fine, (coming from a wet climate). Maybe not as bling as a King but if that matters you shouldn't be in this forum...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    The 5.5 Spot is nearly $2k and the Trance X is $1.3k. Let's not get into a discussion about which is the "better value", all I'm concerned about on this thread is the ride.
    I've owned Giant and Turner bikes and the best reason to get a Giant is because it gives you the "best bang for your buck". Sort of like the ratio between quality and price, the Giant wins. The welds, the tough journal bearings, the stiffness, customer service of the Turner is hard to beat BUT the Turner will be more expensive.

  18. #18
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    Shows you how clueless the salesman was

    Quote Originally Posted by Haggis
    Headset ain't integrated. It's just zero stack.They are fine, (coming from a wet climate). Maybe not as bling as a King but if that matters you shouldn't be in this forum...
    The top of the headtube had this strange-looking pyramid shaped spacer on it (strange to me, never seen that) and he explained it was because the headset was integrated (not zero stack) and since I'd never seen one of those either I just nodded. At first I thought the headtube was a 1.5".

    And I'm an the king of notbling. My headsets are all Cane Creek S2 or S3.
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  19. #19
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    I went into this thread knowing that many have said that Giant is "bang for the buck"

    Quote Originally Posted by xtr444
    I've owned Giant and Turner bikes and the best reason to get a Giant is because it gives you the "best bang for your buck". Sort of like the ratio between quality and price, the Giant wins. The welds, the tough journal bearings, the stiffness, customer service of the Turner is hard to beat BUT the Turner will be more expensive.
    and I don't have any prejudices against the mass produced line of bikes like Giant. I just happen to own two Turners. Nothing would make me happier than to take the Trance X out on some rocky trail or a full trip to Moab, beat the pee out of it and have it perform just like I wanted. What that is I can't tell you but I'll know it when I feel it.

    Of course, that brings up another thread...how long before all those pivots down there would need major servicing (I did do a search about that issue and it seems that the latest generation of Maestro are fairly bulletproof).
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  20. #20
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    One more thing

    I went to this bike shop with specific questions about Maestro. I felt like I was getting snowed by this salesman who thought he knew everything but I just gave up countering his misconceptions. He obviously felt more comfortable talking to newbies. I really never got any info about Maestro from him. He's talking Propedal and I know Propedal. During my parking lot ride a guy and his son I met in there had actually bought a bike and it was being set up for them.

    When I got back it turns out they had bought a Yukon FX for the kid's first FS bike. When I heard that I said GREAT choice, MBA just rated it very highly etc etc. Actually they didn't know the name of it so they showed me the bike on the stand in the back. I checked it out and said it's not Maestro but so what, it's a great bike, great choice. It isn't Maestro is it I said to the mechanic. He says yes it is. The salesman is in the back as well and he says, yes, it's Maestro I say shouldn't there be the same pivot configuration down below as the Trance to make it Maestro He points down at the near the bottom bracket and says, see, that's Maestro.

    Just for my own knowledge, a Yukon isn't Maestro is it?
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  21. #21
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    Nope, Yukon is not Maestro. I tend to avoid sales people at bike shops, and go straight to the mechanics.

    Regarding the Trance X being like the Spot (and hence being a redundant purchase) - It seems that the Spot is meant to be built and ridden slightly more agressively than the Trance X. I'm sure there is a lot of overlap, but considering you already own 4" bikes, it appears that you are looking for something "like" the Spot, but skewed just a tiny bit more towards the XC side of things (ie, the Trance X).

    Looks like you have to find a way to get a Trance X out on the trail. I recommend you lower the stem when you do.

    Ant

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    I went to this bike shop with specific questions about Maestro. I felt like I was getting snowed by this salesman who thought he knew everything but I just gave up countering his misconceptions. He obviously felt more comfortable talking to newbies. I really never got any info about Maestro from him. He's talking Propedal and I know Propedal. During my parking lot ride a guy and his son I met in there had actually bought a bike and it was being set up for them.

    When I got back it turns out they had bought a Yukon FX for the kid's first FS bike. When I heard that I said GREAT choice, MBA just rated it very highly etc etc. Actually they didn't know the name of it so they showed me the bike on the stand in the back. I checked it out and said it's not Maestro but so what, it's a great bike, great choice. It isn't Maestro is it I said to the mechanic. He says yes it is. The salesman is in the back as well and he says, yes, it's Maestro I say shouldn't there be the same pivot configuration down below as the Trance to make it Maestro He points down at the near the bottom bracket and says, see, that's Maestro.

    Just for my own knowledge, a Yukon isn't Maestro is it?
    The Yukon FX looks to be a faux bar design. I can't see close enough for to be exactly sure. If it is a faux bar, It is exactly the same design as a 5spot. GIant was using faux bar designs as early as 2001. CHeck out the AC-1's. Your LBS is a bunch of dumbas*'es.

    I know we obviously can't agree on a whether the spot is in the same category as the TranceX. But I will say this, I have a 2007 Ironhorse MK3, It's specs are almost spot on with the Trance X. I have a PIKE (It was spec'd with a PIKE) and run a 2 ring with bash. 50mm stem, XT crankset. I have also had a 2001 Giant AC1. Faux bar design very similar to the spot. Geo was almost exact with a 140mm fork. Travel could be set at 4.5", 5.5", or 6". Both bikes were equally capable with similar builds and felt very =, very similar.

    The 5spot could be built with a shorter travel fork to put it's geometry closer to the TranceX.
    Basically the build spec for either frame is going to determine whether it feels more AM or more XC.
    My MK3 tackles all terrain from Moab to Keystone to Tsali...

  23. #23
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    Wormvine--about that LBS

    It's not MY LBS They just happened to be a closeby Giant dealer. Their shop, on a Sunday, was packed by what looked to be first-timers. Probably not a good time to get any salesman's attention when I wanted some info, not just a basket or a bell or a pink cruiser.

    When I got back from my "Tour de Parking Lot" the salesman and the owner (?) looked at me and said, well what did you think? Like I'm a noob on FS for the first time. When I replied, well, as we all know parking lot tests don't really tell us anything but I can say that it felt balanced, the front end was easier to lift than my Spot...but I'd need to hammer it on (name of a local gnarly trail) to know anything. They looked real disappointed that I didn't gush "sign me up, I'll pay $3400 for this XO right here, basically untested!"

    I'm going to another shop today. This time I know at least something about Maestro and a little bit about how the salesman might approach me. Maybe they'll have a demo program.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcguy
    It's not MY LBS They just happened to be a closeby Giant dealer. Their shop, on a Sunday, was packed by what looked to be first-timers. Probably not a good time to get any salesman's attention when I wanted some info, not just a basket or a bell or a pink cruiser.

    When I got back from my "Tour de Parking Lot" the salesman and the owner (?) looked at me and said, well what did you think? Like I'm a noob on FS for the first time. When I replied, well, as we all know parking lot tests don't really tell us anything but I can say that it felt balanced, the front end was easier to lift than my Spot...but I'd need to hammer it on (name of a local gnarly trail) to know anything. They looked real disappointed that I didn't gush "sign me up, I'll pay $3400 for this XO right here, basically untested!"

    I'm going to another shop today. This time I know at least something about Maestro and a little bit about how the salesman might approach me. Maybe they'll have a demo program.
    Gotcha about the Giant dealer. A busy Sunday isn't really the time to talk shop.
    So many bikes so little time. Good luck!

  25. #25
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    Went to another Giant dealer today

    Quote Originally Posted by wormvine
    Gotcha about the Giant dealer. A busy Sunday isn't really the time to talk shop.
    So many bikes so little time. Good luck!
    It was essentially as busy (on a Monday morning!) as the other one was on a Sunday because some of the help were off and everyone decided Monday was the perfect day to go bike shopping. My experience with this store manager was as positive as the other one was negative. The guy owned and rode two Maestro bikes and was knowledgeable about every question I could think of.
    A real pleasure to deal with. Did I buy a Trance X?

    I've just been toying with the idea of selling all my bikes and only having one. I can't justify just adding another one to the stable but I asked him to give me a heads up on a Trance X demo from the rep. Only by hammering it on trails I know would I be able to make an informed decision whether it would work as my one bike. He only had good things to say about Maestro. They were also a Transition dealer so I was checking out the Covert, Bottle Rocket, Blindside and Dirtbag while he was having to service the crowds pouring through his door...on a Monday morning!
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