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  1. #1
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    Change Reign X BB Height?

    Hey All,

    I have just built my L Reign X frame up as a true "One bike for all occasions" so I have Lyrick 2-Step air up front for the 115 for XC and 160 mm for DH.

    I have only ridden it once in very tight and twisty NH trails and smacked my cranks on everything. I couldn't even pedal through turns as it would even hit the flat ground when in the apex of a turn.

    I know I have to get a stiffer spring so I don't sit so low in the sagm and 170mm over 175's would help, but I was wondering about putting a shock with a longer eye to eye to force the pivot higher and the rear triangle lower to raise the BB. I wanted to swap out for a lighter air shock anyway so this wouldn't be a terrible option.

    I can't be the only one frustrated by the relative low BB and am just wondering if anyone has found a solution.

    Thanks,
    Heath

  2. #2
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    It was designed for a 160mm fork, so if you are trying to ride with the Lyrik at 115mm, that's your problem. For anything other than steep climbs, just leave the Lyrik at 160mm and it should ride higher.

  3. #3
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    Hey FSRC, I like your response. I suppose you are right on that. I would still like to hear resonses on how people optomize this for XC as it is an All Mountain frame.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron's a Wuss
    Hey All,

    I have just built my L Reign X frame up as a true "One bike for all occasions" so I have Lyrick 2-Step air up front for the 115 for XC and 160 mm for DH.

    I have only ridden it once in very tight and twisty NH trails and smacked my cranks on everything. I couldn't even pedal through turns as it would even hit the flat ground when in the apex of a turn.

    I know I have to get a stiffer spring so I don't sit so low in the sagm and 170mm over 175's would help, but I was wondering about putting a shock with a longer eye to eye to force the pivot higher and the rear triangle lower to raise the BB. I wanted to swap out for a lighter air shock anyway so this wouldn't be a terrible option.

    I can't be the only one frustrated by the relative low BB and am just wondering if anyone has found a solution.

    Thanks,
    Heath
    Tell us what your BB height is! Put your bike on solid ground (not carpet) and make sure it is plumb. Measure the BB height from the floor to the center of the crank bolt.

    It sounds like maybe you might have too weak a shock spring and if you are also riding on trails at 115mm travel you might get clearance issues. As I am sure you know, every bike is made with certain fork height's in mind. Rear travel and how recommended sag affects BB height is also taken into account. As fsrxc mentioned, The Reign was designed to run with a 160mm fork or taller. You can definitely run a shorter fork but it has consequences as you have now experienced.
    I believe the Reign X uses a 7.875 x 2.25" shock. The next i2i size up is 8.5" which is probably not advisable. You might want to run the fork at full travel or maybe increase stack height or get a 180mm fork.
    Changing the crank arm length to 170mm only gives you 1/8" of an inch of extra clearance. But is helpful in the overall picture. My BB height sits at 14.125" and I still hit rocks from time to time. Just my 2 cents.

  5. #5
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    Yeah, the low BB trend is something that many of us are getting used to. A year of riding low BB's has change my style a lot. I'm going the other way and putting a 180mm fork on it and slacking it out while I raise it. I wonder how much longer a shock you can really run before the suspension bottoms out on the BB. Let us know what you find. I love frankenbikes.

    That said, the Reign X is really an all mountain bike that is more of a light free ride and slopestyle power house. I tried to make it a XC machine last season and it does ok, but as soon as your style catches up with the frame you'll be blowing tires because you'll be pushing so hard through the rough and it's still over 30 lbs. Unless you don't have sharp edged rocks. Personally, I bought the Reign X to push my limits, making it more of a XC bike doesn't help that.

    On top of the advise others have given, my advise to to plan for turns better and not pedal through them, at least not more than a quarter turn of the cranks. If the bike is laid over you can't pedal no matter how high the BB is and that is always my goal. Often hard in rock gardens but watch the pros and that's what they're doing.

    I know Cannondale's have always had a high BB, I wonder if it's the terrain in that part of the country.

    BTW - mine is 13.8" with a 170mm Marz 66 and large 2.35 tires.

  6. #6
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    well, the reign has a fairly low BB, but it could be worse. I say give it some time to get used to it and you should be fine. I know I run 175mm cranks, and I hit my cranks quite a bit when I first got the bike. since then I've gotten much better at clocking my cranks properly. I ride in southwest rocks and stuff too, and it's not a huge problem

    pedaling out of corners, well, that's a bit problematic. I bet that the ability to rail a corner harder with the lower BB makes up for the decreased ability to pedal in the middle of a turn. I think learning to carry more speed/momentum and pedaling less would benefit you more than raising the BB.

    another option: borrow an M6 off someone and learn how to ride it through stuff. same BB height, but with an extra inch of sag. then the reign will feel SO tall

  7. #7
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    Hey Guys,

    So I measured and this is what I got.
    With no rider on it:
    *115mm fork setting: 332 mm
    *160mm fork setting: 350 mm
    With me on it:
    *115 mm fork setting: 288 mm
    *160 mm fork setting: 299 mm

    So my sag is 44 mm - 51 mm depending on fork travel setting (does that make sense?)

    Does that sound like too much sag, addressing the new stiffer coil requirement?

    FYI, I have a Maxxis 2.2 Ardent in the rear and 2.1 Panaracer Fire XC up front, inflated to around 35 psi.

    Thanks for your input guys,
    Heath

  8. #8
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    your sag is right spot on. 51mm puts it at 30% sag, which is fine. I think it's just a matter of needing to get used to the lower BB. it takes a few rides to get used to it.

    FWIW, mine is set at 35% sag, but I have some bigger tires to offset that difference (2.5 maxxis in back, 2.6 gazzoladi in front). some bigger tires might benefit you too. that 2.1 fire XC is a TINY tire, especially for the front of such a fast bike. I'm sure you could get some more clearance out of your bike by just swapping up to a larger 2.35 or 2.5 single ply. still light, but more traction

  9. #9
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    I run the skinny tire up front to save some weight. Like many people with RX's, I try to run it light for my XC days, and then beefy for DH days. I am going to be running WTB Timberworlf 2.5's when for my shuttle assisted rides.

    Actually, the Fire XC's as a very grippy tire and work very well here in NE. I also highly recommend the timberwolfs as well. Great traction with them when in rocket DH mode.

    But, I also have a 2.4 ADvantage sitting in wait so if I find that the BB height still remains a problem I may swap that in for some added lift to the front end.

    Thanks all for your input -Heath

  10. #10
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    Funny to think i dropped my RX bb down to 13.25 with a new shorter shock. My baby DH bike build is complete, pics and write up posted tomorrow!
    2015 Santa Cruz Nomad III

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    "Trying is the first step towards failure"

  11. #11
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    Since I upgraded to Hone cranks at the time I bought my X1, I got 170mm cranks, which helps a little with pedal clearance, but is hard to justify if you weren't planning to buy new cranks anyway.

    You don't mention what your rear shock spring rate/pressure is. If you currently have too soft a rear spring, get the right one installed and then see how the bike rides. Try upping the boost pressure, since that should improve the platform firmness, but it could affect the small bump feel.

  12. #12
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    FSRC asked so here's my detailed shock info: I have also posted this in a seperate forum as it is a completely seperate question than the one asked originally, but here goes:

    I am wondering about whether or not the coil on my DHX 3 shock is right for me.
    • I weigh about 225 suited up to ride.
    • Currently have a 550x2.35 coil on there
    • Riding a Giant Reign X size L
    • Shock stroke is 7.875x2.25
    • 158 psi in Propedal chamber
    • There are 52 mm’s of screw down on the shock (from where the collar connects to the furthest down you can screw it. I hope that makes sense)
    • I have the top of the collar at 30 mm of that 52 mm available so roughly 3/5 of the shock through it’s compression. Considering the collar is a few millimeters thick, I probably have only 16 mm to go
    • My sag is about 48 mm
    I hear that at 48mm sag I am at the right level, but my question is to get there am I having to compress the coil too much and have to much air in the propedal chamber? Would a higher rate coil free up some of that for better ravel?

    Thanks,
    Heath

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron's a Wuss
    • There are 52 mm’s of screw down on the shock (from where the collar connects to the furthest down you can screw it. I hope that makes sense)
    • I have the top of the collar at 30 mm of that 52 mm available so roughly 3/5 of the shock through it’s compression. Considering the collar is a few millimeters thick, I probably have only 16 mm to go
    This is not how you want to look at your spring preload. The only thing that matters with this is how many turns of preload. What this means...

    1. Completely loosen the collar so it's not touching the spring at all
    2. With the back wheel in the air, start screwing the collar toward the spring
    3. When it touches just enough to loosely hold the spring, pause and mentally mark that spot
    4. Now apply as many as 2 turns of preload with the collar


    Now check your sag. If you can't get your sag right with 2 turns, you definitely have too light of a spring. I'd put you on a 600# spring based on this calculator and my own experience with the Reign X.

    http://www.tftunedshox.com/info/spring_calculator.aspx

    There is a tolerance to this, but if you have too many turns of preload and you bottom out hard, things can go BOOM because the spring goes solid and breaks stuff.

  14. #14
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    Ah, hadn't seen it yet, so I've replied in your other thread.
    I agree with Phat - try a stiffer spring on your current shock, it could make a big difference to your ride height.

    Then, you can put up to 200psi in the boost chamber, so you have some tuning room there.

  15. #15
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    So which system should I go by for the Maestro suspension? VPP or DW Link?

    Recommended Spring Rates
    Single Pivot / DW-Link: 655
    4 Bar / VPP: 709

  16. #16
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    you've got too light of a spring on there. I'm running a 550lb spring and I weigh 180 suited up. too much preload is way bad for the shock, as you start getting coil lock.

    I'm thinking you need about a 600 or 650lb spring for your weight (3x your weight). you don't want to have more than 2 turns or so of preload on your spring.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron's a Wuss
    So which system should I go by for the Maestro suspension? VPP or DW Link?

    Recommended Spring Rates
    Single Pivot / DW-Link: 655
    4 Bar / VPP: 709
    DW-link is closest description. I came out at 495 with the calculator, but after riding a 500# spring, I felt it was a bit too firm for my style and dropped to a 450# spring. The 650# may be what you are looking for from what you have posted here.

  18. #18
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    According to Giant website, you'll need a 700 spring for your weight. Don't forget to add up all the gears when measuring rider weight.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gembong
    According to Giant website, you'll need a 700 spring for your weight. Don't forget to add up all the gears when measuring rider weight.
    Where on Giant's website does it have spring recommendations?

    Also, I thought it was no more than 3 full turns, not 2.

  20. #20
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    Here is another spring calculator!
    http://www.igorion.com/_coilspring/
    30% sag 600lb spring with 1 turn of preload.

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