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  1. #1
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    Calling all NRS bearing gurus

    I'm replacing the rocker arm and BB bearings on my NRS and had my LBS (a Giant dealer) order them from QBP. The numbers are 688-RS, 6000-RS and 6900-RS. What came were 688-LLU, 6000-LLB and 6900-LLB. They are all the right size but the suffix's are different. I don't know what the suffix's mean and a google search wasn't fruitful. Does it matter that the suffix's are different? Anybody know what they mean?

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    Quote Originally Posted by meloh1
    I'm replacing the rocker arm and BB bearings on my NRS and had my LBS (a Giant dealer) order them from QBP. The numbers are 688-RS, 6000-RS and 6900-RS. What came were 688-LLU, 6000-LLB and 6900-LLB. They are all the right size but the suffix's are different. I don't know what the suffix's mean and a google search wasn't fruitful. Does it matter that the suffix's are different? Anybody know what they mean?
    what kind of rocker arms are you putting on??? do you have a picture?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by meloh1
    I'm replacing the rocker arm and BB bearings on my NRS and had my LBS (a Giant dealer) order them from QBP. The numbers are 688-RS, 6000-RS and 6900-RS. What came were 688-LLU, 6000-LLB and 6900-LLB. They are all the right size but the suffix's are different. I don't know what the suffix's mean and a google search wasn't fruitful. Does it matter that the suffix's are different? Anybody know what they mean?
    Just in case you miss my other post....

    Link; http://www.calsmall.ne.jp/NtnCat_en/NtnFukamizoE.html



    Also, just in case you don't know, bearings with an RS suffix refer to them having a Rubber Seal, and 2RS bearings have 2 Rubber Seals.
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  4. #4
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    I'm not changing the arms, just replacing the bearings. Stock rocker arms.

  5. #5
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    Translation... LLU's are OK, LLB's not... they'll die fast because of the seals are not as good.
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  6. #6
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    But from what I can tell the 2RS variety aren't any better than LLB's. I'm not too concerned. They're cheap and easy to replace. Of the six bearings I replaced three were shot and three felt ok. I took apart one of the bearings that was shot and there was NO grease at all. I think I'll open up one that feels ok and see what it looks like. One other problem cropped up when I was removing the bolts from the BB link. As I loosened the bolt on the right side it suddenly gave way. The head broke right off! It had been damaged (maybe a dropped chain, maybe a rock, who knows) and I think whatever gouged the head of the bolt up also cracked it. I was lucky it didn't break while riding. THAT would have been interesting. Hopefully the LBS can get a replacement from Giant.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by meloh1
    But from what I can tell the 2RS variety aren't any better than LLB's. I'm not too concerned. They're cheap and easy to replace. Of the six bearings I replaced three were shot and three felt ok. I took apart one of the bearings that was shot and there was NO grease at all. I think I'll open up one that feels ok and see what it looks like. One other problem cropped up when I was removing the bolts from the BB link. As I loosened the bolt on the right side it suddenly gave way. The head broke right off! It had been damaged (maybe a dropped chain, maybe a rock, who knows) and I think whatever gouged the head of the bolt up also cracked it. I was lucky it didn't break while riding. THAT would have been interesting. Hopefully the LBS can get a replacement from Giant.
    The LLB's have a gap between the inner ring and the seal, while the 2RS doesn't. Water, muck, crud, sand, etc.

    The 2RS are better. If that is important to you or don't, that's another question. To each his own.

    You maybe would like to check enduroforkseals.com for you next bearing purchase. Those are MAX 2RS bearings... much better than the stock ones.

    Good luck on the broken bolt... bummer.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by meloh1
    But from what I can tell the 2RS variety aren't any better than LLB's. I'm not too concerned. They're cheap and easy to replace. Of the six bearings I replaced three were shot and three felt ok. I took apart one of the bearings that was shot and there was NO grease at all. I think I'll open up one that feels ok and see what it looks like. One other problem cropped up when I was removing the bolts from the BB link. As I loosened the bolt on the right side it suddenly gave way. The head broke right off! It had been damaged (maybe a dropped chain, maybe a rock, who knows) and I think whatever gouged the head of the bolt up also cracked it. I was lucky it didn't break while riding. THAT would have been interesting. Hopefully the LBS can get a replacement from Giant.
    Who did what now?!?!??!!

    Okay, first things first - your bolt and pin are backwards, from what i'm reading. The bolt (M6 x 15 mm long) should be on the NON-drive side, NOT the drive side. The pin that travels through the bearings should be installed from the drive side. Why? You just found out and i'm sorry to hear about this. (hint - get a titanium bolt make sure it's a button head)

    Second - Warp is correct in that the 2RS bearings will seal out contaminants better than the LLU. Not a big deal as the 688's you have go in the rear of the linkage plates (or rockers or whatever you want to call them) and you'll need to replace them soon enough. With the stock plates it's easy.

    Okay, mind if I do a little friendly and related hi-jacking, Meloh? It'll do both of us good 'cuz my NRS is being rebuilt as we speak. It's all in pieces getting all kinds of goddies. Interesting what i've found with the bushings and bearings so far. All crap!

    The Q - With regards to the HL bushings - wet or dry? Should we be using some kind of lubricant in these places? I'm thinking that while it would sound like a good idea (helps to keep the bad stuff out) it might (????) cause the plastic bushings to swell, possibly causing problems.

    Input?
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    Who did what now?!?!??!!

    Okay, first things first - your bolt and pin are backwards, from what i'm reading. The bolt (M6 x 15 mm long) should be on the NON-drive side, NOT the drive side. The pin that travels through the bearings should be installed from the drive side. Why? You just found out and i'm sorry to hear about this. (hint - get a titanium bolt make sure it's a button head)

    Second - Warp is correct in that the 2RS bearings will seal out contaminants better than the LLU. Not a big deal as the 688's you have go in the rear of the linkage plates (or rockers or whatever you want to call them) and you'll need to replace them soon enough. With the stock plates it's easy.

    Okay, mind if I do a little friendly and related hi-jacking, Meloh? It'll do both of us good 'cuz my NRS is being rebuilt as we speak. It's all in pieces getting all kinds of goddies. Interesting what i've found with the bushings and bearings so far. All crap!

    The Q - With regards to the HL bushings - wet or dry? Should we be using some kind of lubricant in these places? I'm thinking that while it would sound like a good idea (helps to keep the bad stuff out) it might (????) cause the plastic bushings to swell, possibly causing problems.

    Input?
    Keep them dry... AFAIK, but some NRS owners may clarify this.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp2003
    Keep them dry... AFAIK, but some NRS owners may clarify this.
    Thanks Warp. I just did a search and found what I was looking for. I was using the wrong keywords before.

    The building continues.....
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  11. #11
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    I'm not sure how your NRS was put together but mine had the same pin and head on both sides with a threaded rod screwed into both halves. You could unscrew the rod and have three pieces. Two identical pin halves with internal threads and allen wrench heads and a threaded rod that joined them. It really doesn't matter which side you work on from what I can tell on my 2001 NRS. Also, from what I've learned about cartridge bearings in general is that most were designed for electric motors and the seals are really dust seals. Maybe the LLU bearings are better but the RS and LLB bearings weren't designed as wet seals.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by meloh1
    Maybe the LLU bearings are better but the RS and LLB bearings weren't designed as wet seals.
    They are a bit better... but for real wet seals you gotta go up to metal bellows or labyrinth seals. The LLU is a kind of a labyrinth, but not exactly. Those seals need lots of room... which you don't have on a bike.

    OTOH... unless you go submarine, you don't really need wet seals. RS are OK as they make a full barrier. The only water/dust entering will be across the interface between the grooves on both rings and the actual seal. Additionally, this happens mostly when the bearing rotates, by means of the water/contaminant media making a film.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by meloh1
    I'm not sure how your NRS was put together but mine had the same pin and head on both sides with a threaded rod screwed into both halves. You could unscrew the rod and have three pieces. Two identical pin halves with internal threads and allen wrench heads and a threaded rod that joined them. It really doesn't matter which side you work on from what I can tell on my 2001 NRS. Also, from what I've learned about cartridge bearings in general is that most were designed for electric motors and the seals are really dust seals. Maybe the LLU bearings are better but the RS and LLB bearings weren't designed as wet seals.
    Ah, okay - my bad. Giant changed things on us through the years I guess. Below are two pics of what my '03 has;

    1) lower arm with pin and bolt installed, above that is the pin and bolt for the main linkage where it attaches to the frame
    2) both pins and bolts, opposing directions to show details better

    It looks like Giant recognized this as a problem and created this as a "fix" for it. (I hope I got the picture order correct. If I diidn't then it's pretty self-explanatory anyways)
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  14. #14
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    Yeah, mine isn't like that at all. I'd post a pic but the LBS kept the broken parts so they knew what to order. Hopefully Giant can supply a replacement. I suspect the newer design (mine is an '01) would also work so they could get either, whichever was available. Mines actually more like the picture of the lower arm with the pin and bolt installed except I have a pin that comes in from both sides and a threaded rod that joins them. I have similar thinner spacers,

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by meloh1
    Yeah, mine isn't like that at all. I'd post a pic but the LBS kept the broken parts so they knew what to order. Hopefully Giant can supply a replacement. I suspect the newer design (mine is an '01) would also work so they could get either, whichever was available. Mines actually more like the picture of the lower arm with the pin and bolt installed except I have a pin that comes in from both sides and a threaded rod that joins them. I have similar thinner spacers,
    INTERESTING! Okay, sow hat you're saying is that it looks like the same thing, but has two bolts, as opposed to the pin (or your's has a "headless pin", kinda), yes?

    I wonder if you could simply have them order the newer-style parts and have this corrected... or maybe Giant will only have the newer single bolt/pin stuff left and you get the upgrade anyways.

    I don't see why you couldn't run the newer stuff - the bearings are the same. If you get the newer stuff just be sure to put the pin head towards the drive side and the bolt on the non-drive side.

    Let us know what you get!!!!!
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  16. #16
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    Yeah, I suspect all that Giant will have on hand is the newer stuff, assuming it's compatible. Why stock different parts if the newer stuff is backward compatible. I'll see what comes.

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