2014 Giant 27.5 HTA
The more I look into this, the weirder it gets. Can anyone shine some light on why the 27.5 anthem and xtc get a 69.5 HTA?
The Lust and the Obsess get 70 degrees.
The 29er XTC 71.5
The 29er Anthem 71.0
I really don't understand why the women's bikes would get a different HTA, let alone a steeper one.
It really looks to me that the HTA should be 70.5 or 70.
I understand the way the trend is moving in the industry, however, Giant is still marketing the anthem as a full on race bike. I don't know if its bad, good or indifferent, it is definitely out of the ordinary for this type of bike.
Try it. Blind taste test - would you notice 1 degree? A bike rides well or not, and is suited to someone's goals or not. Angles in isolation can be deceiving I think. It's the ride.
You need to adjust your head. The HTA on the women's bike is not "steeper" it's more relaxed. Less twitchy. On the whole, GT5050 is right, it's about the ride. Giant seems to know what they are doing. Women seem to prefer the women's version of their bikes.
but remember its now coupled with shorter chainstays. the way i see it is that its a stable bike, but will be more maneuverable
Last time I checked 70 is steeper than 69.5.
I have been riding 20 years. I have watched the industry from when there was zero suspension to where we are now. I have owned over 15 bikes in the last 12 years and know full well what subtle differences to geometry numbers can do.
I'm not saying the HTA does not work well with this set up. It just seems out of the ordinary for a race bike.
I'm about to buy 4 of these, so I am trying to gather as much information as possible.
I wanted to see a 71 deg HA 275 Anthem, but demo the bike before deciding.
I completely agree, a 69.5 deg ha seems bizarre for an Anthem xc race bike, I prefer 70-72 deg head angles for xc bikes,.but give the bike a ride and see how you like it. It may be ok depending on how the bike is designed overall. My Brodie Mettle 26" xc bike has a 70 deg head angle and its a neutral to quick handler. The KHS 650B with 120 mm also has a 69.5 deg head angle. Is the head angle measured static or with rider sag. Static means it's even slacker when ridden.
It's also possible that the fork is made very specific and has a proprietary offset which compensates for the head angle.
I don't know if you can use a Cane Creek Angle Set or the Works Component headset, but perhaps if that is the only thing you don't like about the bike. You can always add one of those and tweak the bike to your liking. It's close enough so that one of those headsets would get you the rest of the way.
If the bike is not a sharp quick handler, then it'll be kind of strange compared to the 29'er Anthem which is fairly quick handler for a 29'er fs xc bike.
Unfortunately I will be buying sight unseen.
Good point about the fork offset. I have been meaning to add that to the discussion. I have no idea what it is for either the Fox or the RS.
Good idea on the headset, definitely a possible solution if the desired ride is not achieved with the stock setup.
To be honest with a bit more research and reading I am tempted to lean back towards the 29er. These bikes are being purchased to do BC Bike race. Too bad there are few 29er options for 2014.
I see. The only thing to pay attention to with the headsets that alter head angle is that if you go steeper, you need to make sure that you don't introduce toe overlap. I don't even know if that could be an issue, but you have to keep it in mind.
Originally Posted by heythorp
Your bike choice could depend on the terrain. Can you find somebody who has raced the course or terrain and ask whether they found a 29'er ok or a 26" bike was better? I haven't raced in BC for 20 years! ...and it was on a 26" steel hardtail with Rock Shox mag 21 forks...lol.
I don't think you could go too wrong with either selection. They probably have their pluses and minus'. I'd prefer to go with the 29'er myself, but I would also be curious about the 27.5. Hey, why don't you get 2 of the 27.5 and 2 of the 29'er..lol...and you could do a sort of experiment. I guess that's not your plan.
The Anthem X1 29'er is nicely appointed this year with SLX brakes too. Having been riding a 2013 Anthem X 29'er for a few months and loving it, I can say it's a safe option for racing that's for sure. Good luck with your decision
I'm open to trying something different. Been riding 29ers for the last 6 years. So when I heard about the anthem in 27.5 I was excited.
With the details I am getting from the BC bike race, it sounds like the roots are pretty tortuous. Being from the east coast I cant imagine they are much worse but possibly. Plus I am out west now and haven't seen a technical trail in 4 years. So I am leaning to just getting the anthem 29er and blasting the roots.
I agree, I like the Anthem 1, and I know its a pretty small sample size, but the aluminum frame does have some concerns. It doesn't look like they reinforced the top tube/seat tube junction for 2014, maybe they figured out the welding problem? I really don't want to have a frame failure at the race. That would ruin a very expensive trip.
Thanks for the input.
My bad. I was looking at the 29er figures you posted, not the 27.5. Not sure why the women's bikes are different other than to say what I said before - women seem to like them. It's worth noting that the smaller tire size vs the 29er will make the 27.5 feel twitchier. It's going to be worth riding them. I'm in the market for something that's designed to take more abuse than my Anthem. Giant said the Trance should do it, so it's going to come down to looking at the 29er and the 27.5 for me and riding both of them and deciding which I like best.
I am in the same decision spot as you - coming off an anthem 29er (different reason for the change though) and am looking at both Trance 29er and 27.5. Will be interested in which way you go and the reasons for it.
Originally Posted by Cotharyus
As I stated in another thread, I've had almost every version of Giant 26 and 29 xc race bike the last 10 years. (No, I'm not kidding, XTC 26, Anthem 26, Anthem 29, now on an XTC 29 composite). I went and test rode the Anthem 27.5 last weekend. It was basically a parking lot test with a little single track thrown in. For me and the way I ride and race (XC, marathon, and long trail rides in CO) the 69.5 HTA is awesome. With the shorter chain stays you can still whip it around corners if need be, but the slack(er) HTA will work better with these long CO descents.
Besides, I used to race the XTC 26er that had a 72 degree HTA! But I loved it and was very used to it at the time.
I'm trying to not buy into the marketing, but I have been looking for a "smaller" version of the Anthem 29er for two years now. I'm 5'10" with a 32" inseam, and the Anthem 29er just seemed like too much of a truck to me. The 27.5 version feels just right. I ordered the framset on Wed. No idea of arrival date but the catalogs say "August."
In the end, I think you get used to whatever you have, but certainly try and test ride before hand. I would think a longer stage race like BC would be more fun on a slacker HTA. Especially after a few hours in the saddle. The other side of the coin is that no 27.5 is gong to roll over roots like a 29er. I've tested the wheels sizes back to back and there is a difference in that respect. Just depends on what is most important to you.
The 26er Anthem x was the best bike I have owned. Your description of the 29er anthem is exactly why I am still on a hardtail. When the 29er came out I was excited to get the suspension back, but that bike did not end up being what I was hoping for.
With the 275 coming, I was really looking forward to getting the handling back that the 26er had with the benefit of slightly larger wheels.
I'm not sure I want to give up roll over and not get back what I miss most about the 26er. I am looking at 3 or 4 bikes right now. Some of them are steeper some are slacker. We will see. I have some time to make the decision.
Thanks for the good feedback.
Just to show some other discrepancies.
$3500 Lust 2 - Giant P-XC2 w Giant Performance Tracker Off Road Hubs
$3500 Anthem 2 - Giant P-XC2 w Giant Performance Tracker Off Road Hubs
$4750 Anthem 1 - Giant P-XCR1 Wheelset
Lust 2 Gets 142 Rear
Anthem 2 Gets 135 Rear
Anthem 1 Gets 142 Rear
Lust 2 Fox CTD front and rear
Anthem 2 Reba/ Monarch R
Anthem 1 Fox CTD front and rear
Considering the Lust has an XT RD, The differences between the Lust and the anthem 1 are some XT vs SLX parts and the wheels. The retail difference is only a couple hundred dollars. Yet the MSRP between the bikes is a staggering $1250.
Finally some decent geo. I have an Anthem 29er and the head angle is way too steep, but the changestays are so long, the wheelbase would start to get ridiculous if I put a angleset on.
Personally I feel that slacker geo is faster all around, even for xc racing. I think the slacker geo makes it easier to get the front wheel over obstacle on technical climbs and is more stable on the way down. I would absolutely love it if there was a slacker option for the Anthem. I ride a Reign as my trail bike for the slacker geo rather than the extra travel. Reign geo with 4 inches of travel would be so fast and fun. I would buy it tomorrow.
Wow ok don't post when you can't see. My bad.
eh?? what do u mean pics dont lie? and the top tube measurements increase with geo size. can you explain what u mean pls
Originally Posted by heythorp
yep, i can. I don't have my glasses on. Sorry my bad I will delete post. thx
Having owned my Anthem 27.5 3 for the past week and a half and logging only ~ 100 miles, I would say I love this bike. It's fast, it's nimble, and the HTA doesn't seem to be an issue with either stability or steering quickness. I would have to say Giant knew what they were doing. Now, I'm 5'8", 160 lbs and I bought the medium, and it fits me great. It eats up the roots quite well and those that it can't just roll over, the front end comes up with incredible ease with a slight tug on the bars. If your LBS has one to demo, take it on the trails and see what it'll do for you.
Giant don't make a bike suited to that race. What you want is a Specialized Carbon Camber Evo. 68.8 HA and 22lbs. Just perfect.
These bikes are being purchased to do BC Bike race. Too bad there are few 29er options for 2014.
Nice Troll. Neg rep for you.
Originally Posted by JCL
I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah
WTF are you on about muppet? Look at the geo. My comments are a fact.
Originally Posted by Silentfoe
"Giant "don't" make a bike suited to that race" So you're saying that Giant doesn't make a single bike that can race the BC bike race? And you come on a a Giant forum to spout your "fact". You have met the definition of troll. Enjoy your red chicklet, I'm sure I'm not the first nor the last to call you out.
I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah
Bigger wheels need a steeper head angle to have equivalent trail. So a 70 degree head angle on a 29er would about the same trail as a 650B with 69 degree HA, or a 26er with 68 HA.
(I'm talking roughly).
Originally Posted by Silentfoe
Wow you are one hell of a twisted powertripper. Are you a prison guard or a cop by any chance?
Of course Giant have bikes that can compete in any race. The FACT I stated that you either can't understand or don't want to is that they don't have a 29" trail bike with that geo.
Things are a little different up here. Bring up your 70 degree HA 650b and I'll take you on an "XC" ride.
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