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  1. #1
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    08 Reign and a Fox 36

    I know this topic has been discussed, but maybe I haven't found the thread in the search function which gives real feedback on the switch. Only threads I could find were the ones where the majority of guys said the switch was a good upgrade.

    However, I want some real feedback. Does the 36 give a NOTICIBLE feel to a slacker head angle? Is it now about a 68?

    It seems to me that having a 36 would naturally raise the front end to achieve the slacker head angle. Kind of a 'poor man's Ferrari way' of doing it.

    With the higher front end, how does is affect handling? HOw about Fork sag setup. Seems you would have to run considerably less PSI in teh front to achieve the proper sag since more body weight would be in the back (higher front end).

    I would appreciate some ral feedback before taking the plunge. thanks

  2. #2
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    i don't own this bike but i can give some thoughts on the idea in general as i've done this with other bikes and just recently did this on my '06 trance - going from a 100 to 115 to 130mm travel fork. figure on ~1 deg of head angle change for every 1" of axle to crown increase. that would theoretically put your HA right at 68 deg. for me personally, 1 deg of HA change is quite noticeable and from what i remember you ride SoMo and national quite a bit, correct? you will notice the slacker 1 deg coming down for sure, with the added bonus of a much stiffer fork with the increased size and 20mm axle. stability on that trail will increase and for the terrain you ride this would be a no brainer in my book.

    as for position on the bike - if you have any spacers under your stem you could remove some and keep your hands at the same height, or go with a lower rise bar to achieve the same position. this is what i did on my trance (removed spacers) and it's worked out well. between spacers, stem and bars you should be able to keep things pretty close to where they are now - assuming you want to.

    remember you need the axle to crown measurement, not just the travel measurement. not all fork's A2C measurements match up to the increase in travel measurement.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by 'size
    i don't own this bike but i can give some thoughts on the idea in general as i've done this with other bikes and just recently did this on my '06 trance - going from a 100 to 115 to 130mm travel fork. figure on ~1 deg of head angle change for every 1" of axle to crown increase. that would theoretically put your HA right at 68 deg. for me personally, 1 deg of HA change is quite noticeable and from what i remember you ride SoMo and national quite a bit, correct? you will notice the slacker 1 deg coming down for sure, with the added bonus of a much stiffer fork with the increased size and 20mm axle. stability on that trail will increase and for the terrain you ride this would be a no brainer in my book.

    as for position on the bike - if you have any spacers under your stem you could remove some and keep your hands at the same height, or go with a lower rise bar to achieve the same position. this is what i did on my trance (removed spacers) and it's worked out well. between spacers, stem and bars you should be able to keep things pretty close to where they are now - assuming you want to.

    remember you need the axle to crown measurement, not just the travel measurement. not all fork's A2C measurements match up to the increase in travel measurement.
    Thanks for the reply. Good stuff and encouraging. I figured it was a no brainer for the terrain we ride, but I wanted some input before dropping the hammer.

    I'm surprised more haven't chimed in. I figure there's a ton of guys who've done this.

    I'm not sure if I follow you on the A2C measure. Make sure the fork I pick has the right measurement before buying? Otherwise the travel will be there but the fork's length won't?

    I figured I'd pick up a Fox Talas 36. Seem to be popular with Giant and I love my 32 Talas. I ALWAYS use the 100mm setting when climbing National. Thanks again

  4. #4
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    A2C - just because a fork may have say 30mm more travel, that doesn't necessarily mean it's A2C is 30mm longer. the A2C measurement is what will determine how much the HA changes.

    i now rockshox has their A2C measurements on the sram site, but i'm not sure about Fox.

  5. #5
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    This has been discussed a lot. I will chime in. I switched from a Pike to a 36. The pike felt very good but was not slack in any sense so it made the reign feel much more like a trail bike and made really bombing steeps much more difficult. The 36 immediately felt more appropriate for the Reign's natural geometry and the bikes purpose. The change in HA is noticeable but not extreme. Depending on how you like it set up it can be very similar. I like to take advantage of the 36's travel and plushness so I run a lot of sag and it feels very similar to the pike's HA. If I pump it up just a wee bit more though it stays up higher in travel with about 20% sag and is a noticeably more aggressive fork. I would rate the pike/reign at 7.5/10 for agro riding and the 36/reign at a 9/10. It is a very balanced ride indeed and gives a sense of being capable of very aggressive riding without any concern for lack of control. It will not make it as capable as a DH bike though.
    OVER THE LINE SMOKEY!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by daugela
    However, I want some real feedback. Does the 36 give a NOTICIBLE feel to a slacker head angle? Is it now about a 68?

    It seems to me that having a 36 would naturally raise the front end to achieve the slacker head angle. Kind of a 'poor man's Ferrari way' of doing it.

    With the higher front end, how does is affect handling? HOw about Fork sag setup. Seems you would have to run considerably less PSI in teh front to achieve the proper sag since more body weight would be in the back (higher front end).

    I would appreciate some ral feedback before taking the plunge. thanks
    I think the 36 will actually change the head angle more like to 67.5 degrees cause its a lot longer than the stock 32 due to he fatter crown.

    I have a 07 36 Talas on my 08 Reign 0 and if rides like it was designed for this fork. With the stock 32 I felt my bike had a slightly forward weight bias, to low bottom bracket and twitchy high speed handling. With 36 the bike is has a very neutral weight bias and good cornering even at low speeds. The downside is climbing steep switch-backs at full fork extension is is not easy. In tight terrain with sudden ups and downs I have found its better to to stick to one travel setting rather than try to swap back and forth. The Talas system is little unpredictable to return to full extension.

    One thing to watch out for on 07 and 08 36 Talas forks is that if you plan to ride mostly in the 130mm travel you need to set the sag and damping to suit that setting. If you set the sag/damping for 160 travel you may find that the fork sits to low in the 130 setting. Also its worth saying that 07 Talas 36 forks are not very plush. My 08 32 Talas is way better at small bumps and easily keeps up with the 36 on medium impacts. On big square edge impacts the 36 wins hands down.

    Apparently all these issues have been addressed for the 09 version so its probably worth getting the latest version if you have the cash.

  7. #7
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    I own both a 05 and 08 reign. I have tried a 140mm fork on both and it really does hold it back in techncal riding. I too have tried a 36 talus an 08 it is the perfect fork for the bike just beware if you are a lighter rider. The 08 is substantially better than the older 36 forks,but I had trouble with the talus cart. 2 times and could never really get the right feel for me. I believe a rider that is at least 155-160 lbs min. would be fine. I am about 140lbs and don't believe I was able to get the proper sag. I had to run a lower than normal pressure to get things moving with nearly no rebound. I had problems with my hands going numb due to lack of sensitivity. And yes I tried a multitude of settings it was a rc2. I gave it a good 3-4 months of riding before trying something else.

    Tom

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by other aardvark
    I think the 36 will actually change the head angle more like to 67.5 degrees cause its a lot longer than the stock 32 due to he fatter crown.

    I have a 07 36 Talas on my 08 Reign 0 and if rides like it was designed for this fork. With the stock 32 I felt my bike had a slightly forward weight bias, to low bottom bracket and twitchy high speed handling. With 36 the bike is has a very neutral weight bias and good cornering even at low speeds. The downside is climbing steep switch-backs at full fork extension is is not easy. In tight terrain with sudden ups and downs I have found its better to to stick to one travel setting rather than try to swap back and forth. The Talas system is little unpredictable to return to full extension.

    One thing to watch out for on 07 and 08 36 Talas forks is that if you plan to ride mostly in the 130mm travel you need to set the sag and damping to suit that setting. If you set the sag/damping for 160 travel you may find that the fork sits to low in the 130 setting. Also its worth saying that 07 Talas 36 forks are not very plush. My 08 32 Talas is way better at small bumps and easily keeps up with the 36 on medium impacts. On big square edge impacts the 36 wins hands down.

    Apparently all these issues have been addressed for the 09 version so its probably worth getting the latest version if you have the cash.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but adding a 160mm fork would change the geometry different that what the bike was designed for?

    I'm mean, obviously if you had a 210mm fork on the Reign, it would 'chopper' it out so much, it would be practical. Isn't this the same case with a 160mm fork? Or is the geometry designed for it, but Giant failed to add it to the spec?

    Is the Geometry any different that the older Reigns which had a 160mm?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by daugela
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but adding a 160mm fork would change the geometry different that what the bike was designed for?

    I'm mean, obviously if you had a 210mm fork on the Reign, it would 'chopper' it out so much, it would be practical. Isn't this the same case with a 160mm fork? Or is the geometry designed for it, but Giant failed to add it to the spec?

    Is the Geometry any different that the older Reigns which had a 160mm?

    Sometimes its just dumb luck that something works better (for a certain application) than the stock part. I dont know about the Reigns that were specced with 160 forks as they never arrived on the shores of OZ. I can tell you I tried a 160 fork on my 05 Reign and ended up with a very high bottom bracket and a very slack head angle, even more so than my 08 Reign with the same fork.

    O5 Reigns already had a definite rearward weight bias and a slacker head angle than the official specs. Putting a 160 travel fork on the 05 gave a free-ride/play-bike kind of feel (in my opinion). Good fun but not good for climbs or long rides.

    The new Reigns are very different feel to the previous year.. In stock trim , to me my 08 R 0 rode like a XC bike. Not a bad thing but it didnt make me want to really push it to utilize the 6" rear wheel travel. Dont get me wrong, some of the fastest people I know ride bikes with XC kind of set up. Its just for me and many others the 160 fork on a 08 R really opens up this bikes descending capabilities and doesnt seem hurt the handling in general.
    Last edited by other aardvark; 08-04-2008 at 02:19 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom schoonveld
    I own both a 05 and 08 reign. I have tried a 140mm fork on both and it really does hold it back in techncal riding. I too have tried a 36 talus an 08 it is the perfect fork for the bike just beware if you are a lighter rider. The 08 is substantially better than the older 36 forks,but I had trouble with the talus cart. 2 times and could never really get the right feel for me. I believe a rider that is at least 155-160 lbs min. would be fine. I am about 140lbs and don't believe I was able to get the proper sag. I had to run a lower than normal pressure to get things moving with nearly no rebound. I had problems with my hands going numb due to lack of sensitivity. And yes I tried a multitude of settings it was a rc2. I gave it a good 3-4 months of riding before trying something else.

    Tom
    What did you go to after the Talas Tom? Lyric?

  11. #11
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    On my 08 after ditching the 36 talus. I went back to a 07 all mtn.1 w/rc2 cart. upgrade. It has alot better low speed bump compliance than the 08 36. It is coil with air assist. The coil has a lot to do with it I'm sure. My hands would actually go numb while on log climbs w/ the 36 due to lack of sensitivity.

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