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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Yep, twice.
    Why not?

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    Why not?
    exactly
    I brake for stinkbugs

  3. #103
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    Did we get an answer?
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Did we get an answer?
    (Warning: the following answer may indicate some early on-set grumpy old man disease.)

    I think the consensus is "Ride what you want, they make valve kits and tubes both ways and if you're still complaining about it, you're either poorly resourced, too lazy to fix it or you just need something to gripe about." Or was the the answer to the _________ thread. (Fill in: Guns for Cougar Country, AVID brakes leak, my chain lube doesn't work long enough or the title to any other thread where it seems like someone knows the solution but is just determined to get some sympathy.)
    The most expensive bike in the world is still cheaper than the cheapest open heart surgery.

  5. #105
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    The Pinkbike blog post is interesting. I never thought presta valve can tolerate higher pressure. however, why would all shocks use schrader valves?

    wouldn't the schrader valves on shocks fail to hold air?

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    The Pinkbike blog post is interesting. I never thought presta valve can tolerate higher pressure. however, why would all shocks use schrader valves?

    wouldn't the schrader valves on shocks fail to hold air?
    I think shocks use schrader valves because it's easier to screw a shock pump hose on than to press it on, plus the presta would need to extend further from the schock body to allow the user to unscrew the valve and attach a pump nozzle.
    The most expensive bike in the world is still cheaper than the cheapest open heart surgery.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forster View Post
    I think shocks use schrader valves because it's easier to screw a shock pump hose on than to press it on..
    They use Schrader on shocks for the same blatantly obvious reason they are used on cars, trucks, motorbikes, aircraft and countless other applications where a simple, reliable air valve is required.

    As well as pedal bicycles, the wonderful Presta valve is used on... feck all! Mystery eh?

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forster View Post
    (Warning: the following answer may indicate some early on-set grumpy old man disease.)

    I think the consensus is "Ride what you want, they make valve kits and tubes both ways and if you're still complaining about it, you're either poorly resourced, too lazy to fix it or you just need something to gripe about." Or was the the answer to the _________ thread. (Fill in: Guns for Cougar Country, AVID brakes leak, my chain lube doesn't work long enough or the title to any other thread where it seems like someone knows the solution but is just determined to get some sympathy.)
    Is it legal to run Presta with a dropper post or vice versa with Shrader? Which scenario is more commonly used and which one is more commonly frowned upon?
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

  9. #109
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    I think we should just all use the needle style valves used on soccer balls, basketballs, footballs, and the like.
    They are so aerodynamic, we would all get our KOMS on Strava and start beating ebikes.


    Ban the presta, it's french.
    "Go soothingly in the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon"

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    I think we should just all use the needle style valves used on soccer balls, basketballs, footballs, and the like.
    They are so aerodynamic, we would all get our KOMS on Strava and start beating ebikes.


    Ban the presta, it's french.
    I'd be ahead of the game with the cheap ass floor pump I picked up over Black Friday. It has a Presta / Shrader slide lever but it also has a small compartment that carries a needle attachment. For $15 I couldn't pass it up.
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

  11. #111
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    damnit. those frenchies have taken over the market. !!

  12. #112
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    my stock Presta tubes sucked. really hard to close them all the way, id turn and turn and turn, freakin hurt my hands. then theyld leak if i didnt close them all the way, which i thought i did

    got some new ones, different brand, work great

  13. #113
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    I just learned that another name for Presta valve is Sclaverand valve, and there’s a third bicycle valve called the Dunlop valve (aka, Woods or English valve) used in some developing countries.

    One alleged benefit of a Sclaverand valve is that in higher psi applications (road bike tires) inflation is easier than with a Shrader valve since one doesn’t have to overcome the pressure of an internal spring.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post

    One alleged benefit of a Sclaverand valve is that in higher psi applications (road bike tires) inflation is easier than with a Shrader valve since one doesn’t have to overcome the pressure of an internal spring.
    yeah this is why I thought they're called high pressure tubes, not becasue schrader can't hold the pressures, but because when you're out in the nowheres with a hand pump, it's easier to get to ~100psi with presta.
    All the gear and no idea.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    damnit. those frenchies have taken over the market. !!
    You mean like back in the mid 90's...
    All the gear and no idea.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I just learned that another name for Presta valve is Sclaverand valve, and there’s a third bicycle valve called the Dunlop valve (aka, Woods or English valve) used in some developing countries.

    One alleged benefit of a Sclaverand valve is that in higher psi applications (road bike tires) inflation is easier than with a Shrader valve since one doesn’t have to overcome the pressure of an internal spring.
    I don't understand why the spring (that you can overcome a 10 psi) would become an impedement at 100psi.
    The most expensive bike in the world is still cheaper than the cheapest open heart surgery.

  17. #117
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    I have never had problems with presta valves. Sure it is a pain to put an adapter on and connect it with whatever you use to fill the tire with, but I have had no problems with the valves themselves.
    I have had problems with schrader valves, where the rubber on the valve sliced and the tire no longer held air.

  18. #118
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    With today's lower pressures I don't see why we shouldn't use these? You'd never have to cary a pump again!

    Why presta valve?-valve.jpg
    American Idle

  19. #119
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    I don't run caps on my road bike prestas but do on my mtbs to protect the poppet from twigs and branches that flip into the spokes. The caps serve no other function for me, though some say it's there to prevent the tip from puncturing a folded up tube, which is plausible.

    The best thing about presta valves is the consternation it causes people.
    Do the math.

  20. #120
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    presta valve always seem to break off at the tip. I had to get LBS replace the valves several times.

  21. #121
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    Schrader valves for tubeless

    Quote Originally Posted by sXeXBMXer View Post
    will schrader work for tubeless?
    Yes.

    These are steel and probably pretty indestructible...
    https://www.amazon.com/Stans-NoTubes...schrader+valve

    These are a very well thought-out design. They're aluminum and supposedly lighter than Presta valves...
    Schrader Valves – Speed Evolution

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptDan View Post
    Yes.

    These are steel and probably pretty indestructible...
    https://www.amazon.com/Stans-NoTubes...schrader+valve

    These are a very well thought-out design. They're aluminum and supposedly lighter than Presta valves...
    Schrader Valves – Speed Evolution
    Cool!

  23. #123
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    I think both have their pros and cons. I'm partial to schrader, namely because everything else in my garage, snowblower, wheelbarrow, cars, kids bikes, bike trailer, etc all use a schrader and in a pinch I can use my shock pump to also pump up a tire. Whether its scientifically true or not I also feel schraders are more durable. I've broken several prestas over the years, but I've yet to break a schrader. I see no advantage to a presta over a schrader from a end user standpoint.

    That being said my only serious gripe is that both still exist. So for my bike collection, including wife and kids, I now have to have 6 different tubes to cover all the different sizes and valve types instead of 3. Just silly.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by jahkneefive View Post
    ...in a pinch I can use my shock pump to also pump up a tire.
    ...six days later the tire is inflated to proper psi.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    ...six days later the tire is inflated to proper psi.
    And by that time he died of exhaustion.
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    With today's lower pressures I don't see why we shouldn't use these? You'd never have to cary a pump again!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Fukcing brill, mate!

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    And by that time he died of exhaustion.
    Same with a car tire. You can pump it up with a floor pump, but damn, it takes a long time.

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    Same with a car tire. You can pump it up with a floor pump, but damn, it takes a long time.
    Please tell me this is not from experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

  29. #129
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    I'm now imagining someone with a car jacked up on the side of road, pouring in bike tire sealant (e.g. Stan's) through the valve with the core removed, turning the tire to coat it, and pumping it up with a Topeak Joe Blow Mtn...

  30. #130
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    I own way more presta valves than schrader. Everything in my garage has presta, except for my car, truck, motorcycle, snowblower, and hand truck.
    Do the math.

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by dv8zen View Post
    I'm now imagining someone with a car jacked up on the side of road, pouring in bike tire sealant (e.g. Stan's) through the valve with the core removed, turning the tire to coat it, and pumping it up with a Topeak Joe Blow Mtn...
    You paint a nice picture.
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Please tell me this is not from experience.
    Floor pump a 4x4, oh yeah its been done. Best back up in the middle of nowhere, when the gadgety electric compressor packs in etc.

  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Please tell me this is not from experience.
    I've done it many times. I just did it a couple of weeks ago for my stepson's bimmer, it was down to like 15 psi on one tire and he's too lazy/spaced out to pump it up so I did it for him. Didn't want him to get a blowout. It takes almost exactly 8 floor pumps to raise a car tire 1 psi. So I got it up to about 40 psi, so 25 x 8 = 200 pumps. It's just exercise. I have a compressor but he locked his doors and I could not use the cigarette lighter adapter for the compressor so...floor pump. Is that weird? I know we live in a lazy instant gratification society but some of us do things the hard way just because.
    "If my songs become my freedom, and my freedom turns to gold, then I'll ask the final question, if the answer could be sold"

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    presta valve always seem to break off at the tip. I had to get LBS replace the valves several times.
    As mentioned previously, you need to be really careful when you pump it up, keep the valve hole on the pump in a straight line down from the valve, not diagonal at all. And I stabilize the other side of the pump hole w/other hand when I close the lever so as to not bend/break the valve tip. Because yes some of them are pretty thin valves and they can bend (I haven't broken one yet).
    "If my songs become my freedom, and my freedom turns to gold, then I'll ask the final question, if the answer could be sold"

  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    They use Schrader on shocks for the same blatantly obvious reason they are used on cars, trucks, motorbikes, aircraft and countless other applications where a simple, reliable air valve is required.

    As well as pedal bicycles, the wonderful Presta valve is used on... feck all! Mystery eh?
    This may be 100% wrong, but I don't think the tubeless ready tires want Schrader's on them for liability reasons. As in a dumbass pumps up the tubes too much with a compressor and no eye protection, tire blows up, eye taken out, lawsuit. It's safer for the TR tire companies (and all bike tire companies) to recommend Prestas and hand/floor pumps. Pig I'm sure you've heard of the lawsuits in the US, they are many and entire business models are based on avoiding them. Look at Volkswagen, one diesel emissions screw up and billions lost through mostly US-based lawsuits.
    "If my songs become my freedom, and my freedom turns to gold, then I'll ask the final question, if the answer could be sold"

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by MozFat View Post
    Floor pump a 4x4, oh yeah its been done. Best back up in the middle of nowhere, when the gadgety electric compressor packs in etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    I've done it many times. I just did it a couple of weeks ago for my stepson's bimmer, it was down to like 15 psi on one tire and he's too lazy/spaced out to pump it up so I did it for him. Didn't want him to get a blowout. It takes almost exactly 8 floor pumps to raise a car tire 1 psi. So I got it up to about 40 psi, so 25 x 8 = 200 pumps. It's just exercise. I have a compressor but he locked his doors and I could not use the cigarette lighter adapter for the compressor so...floor pump. Is that weird? I know we live in a lazy instant gratification society but some of us do things the hard way just because.
    I guess I've never been in the situation where I had to. I didn't say it couldn't be done but I certainly wouldn't want to have to do it. A portable compressor that goes to your cigarette lighter or change the tire out and drive with the spare on down to the tire dealer where they fix it for free is how I've always done it.
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

  37. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I guess I've never been in the situation where I had to. I didn't say it couldn't be done but I certainly wouldn't want to have to do it. A portable compressor that goes to your cigarette lighter or change the tire out and drive with the spare on down to the tire dealer where they fix it for free is how I've always done it.
    If you can do 5 pushups you can pump up a car tire with a floor pump Although a couple years ago some dude walked by and said WTF are you desperate or something? Physical labor is so 1980's I guess...
    "If my songs become my freedom, and my freedom turns to gold, then I'll ask the final question, if the answer could be sold"

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    If you can do 5 pushups you can pump up a car tire with a floor pump Although a couple years ago some dude walked by and said WTF are you desperate or something? Physical labor is so 1980's I guess...
    And I’m 56 years old. I have no problem doing it if “I have to”. Technology in that department has always been on my side I guess. I remember manually pumping up motorcycle tires in the 70’s does that count?
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    With today's lower pressures I don't see why we shouldn't use these? You'd never have to cary a pump again!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Just put your mouth on it and blow. Don't even need to carry a pump anymore. Lmao.
    Hello, my name is human and I came down from the stars.

  40. #140
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    I was curious and I learned that people can *suck* 4-5 psi. Human lungs supposedly aren't stronger at blowing, but then there's this guy:


    - this guy, Georges Christen of Luxembourg, and Brian Jackson seem to have unique traits that allow them to blow over 150 psi

    Experiments pegged normal people more in the 1-2 psi range*, testing how much water can be sucked up a long straw, or if air can be blown through a straw that's a certain depth in water. *e.g. pro trumpet player blows 1.9 psi
    Tell me when I'm wrong. Neg rep me. I will appreciate it, even if you don't explain why I'm wrong.

  41. #141
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    This forum can be so weird.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    This forum can be so weird.
    Define weird in your own words

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  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    This may be 100% wrong, but I don't think the tubeless ready tires want Schrader's on them for liability reasons. As in a dumbass pumps up the tubes too much with a compressor and no eye protection, tire blows up, eye taken out, lawsuit. It's safer for the TR tire companies (and all bike tire companies) to recommend Prestas and hand/floor pumps. Pig I'm sure you've heard of the lawsuits in the US, they are many and entire business models are based on avoiding them. Look at Volkswagen, one diesel emissions screw up and billions lost through mostly US-based lawsuits.
    How is Schrader valve a liability?

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  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Is there a Shraeder valve made for tubeless? If there is, I've never seen one.
    Yes, there is. Several companies make them.

    There's a whole thread of all places in the Arizona page:

    Threaded Schrader valve for ghetto tubeless?

    But here's one that looks great.

    Schrader Valves – Speed Evolution

    One of the challenges I have found is getting the valve to see and seal with the curved portion of the rim bed. As the rim gets wider and wider, that's not an issue. Also, seems some rims are awfully deep which requires a longer stem like the Speed Evolutions.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picard View Post
    How is Schrader valve a liability?

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    They are dangerous, people have been seriously killed or injured trying to figure out how to use them.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I had to get conversion sleeves that fit in the rim hole to accept a Presta stem..
    You didn't have to. Presta tubes are perfectly comfortable in Schrader drilled rims with no adaptors of any kind. I run 80psi in this manner for road rides. Have yet to lose a tire due to an issue with or near the valve.
    I will suffer no butt-hurt fools!

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingtaco View Post
    You didn't have to. Presta tubes are perfectly comfortable in Schrader drilled rims with no adaptors of any kind. I run 80psi in this manner for road rides. Have yet to lose a tire due to an issue with or near the valve.
    Not an adapter but a sleeve. The larger hole without it allows the Presta valve room to move. With a road bike that's not a concern but in mtb it would be with all the jostling. I have ran without the sleeves and although I may have been worrying about nothing, I worried. Which reminded me to just check my bike. In the back I'm still running a sleeve but in the front I lost it and have been running it like that for awhile no problem.

    For those curious, here's what I'm referring to.

    Wheels MFG Alloy Presta Valve Savers | Jenson USA

    Why presta valve?-img_0413.jpg
    Why presta valve?-img_0414.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by j.b. Weld View Post
    they are dangerous, people have been seriously killed or injured trying to figure out how to use them.
    lol!
    All the gear and no idea.

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Presta valves are lighter and more aero, plus laterally stiff and vertically compliant.
    Watch it buddy, there are kids around here...
    Communist Party Member Since 1917.

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Not an adapter but a sleeve. The larger hole without it allows the Presta valve room to move. With a road bike that's not a concern but in mtb it would be with all the jostling. I have ran without the sleeves and although I may have been worrying about nothing, I worried. Which reminded me to just check my bike. In the back I'm still running a sleeve but in the front I lost it and have been running it like that for awhile no problem.

    For those curious, here's what I'm referring to.

    Wheels MFG Alloy Presta Valve Savers | Jenson USA

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    It's not a baseless worry.
    If a presta tube is installed to a rim with a Schrader sized hole, the rubber around the metal part of the valve will work it's way between the hole and valve and cause a puncture.
    That's how some people get mysterious half circle punctures near the valve base.
    Communist Party Member Since 1917.

  51. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    They are dangerous, people have been seriously killed or injured trying to figure out how to use them.
    Stop scaring me. I am very fragile

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  52. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericmopar View Post
    It's not a baseless worry.
    If a presta tube is installed to a rim with a Schrader sized hole, the rubber around the metal part of the valve will work it's way between the hole and valve and cause a puncture.
    That's how some people get mysterious half circle punctures near the valve base.
    My thoughts exactly and the reason I run the sleeves. This thread prompted me to re-order a couple. Ones missing from a trail side fix.
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericmopar View Post
    It's not a baseless worry.
    If a presta tube is installed to a rim with a Schrader sized hole, the rubber around the metal part of the valve will work it's way between the hole and valve and cause a puncture.
    That's how some people get mysterious half circle punctures near the valve base.
    I do this without a sleeve, riding my XC bike on the road with urban tires as high as 80 psi, and also on the trail, as low as 20psi. I've never had a tube even appear abraided near the hole. I would hazard a guess that maybe some have burrs left from drilling the holes that were never addressed by the mfg, builder or rider, or maybe cranking down too hard on the nut. Cranking the nut used to cause cuts in my road bike tubes that had the proper presta holes, until I realized there was no need to crank the nut hard. As long as the edge is clean and the nut is set lightly, I don't see anyone ever having an issue running Presta tubes in Schrader holds without adaptors. I upgraded to lightweight race tubes on the MTB fall of 2016, 20psi, 80psi, 1.5" tire at 80psi, 2.5" tire at 20psi, doesn't matter, no marks on any of the tubes.

    26" Mavic EX729 rims.

    Yes, it's a sleeve, dirtjunkie. And it's an adaptor. I don't understand the purpose of your comment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingtaco View Post
    Yes, it's a sleeve, dirtjunkie. And it's an adaptor. I don't understand the purpose of your comment.
    The only purpose was that when you said adapter I assumed you didn't know what I was referring to, you obviously do. To me it's more of a sleeve than an adapter. Coincidence I'm running the same rims Mavic EX729's.
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

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    Are you running the older ovoid rims, or the newer ones with the rounded edges?
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  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericmopar View Post
    It's not a baseless worry.
    If a presta tube is installed to a rim with a Schrader sized hole, the rubber around the metal part of the valve will work it's way between the hole and valve and cause a puncture.
    That's how some people get mysterious half circle punctures near the valve base.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingtaco View Post
    I do this without a sleeve, riding my XC bike on the road with urban tires as high as 80 psi, and also on the trail, as low as 20psi. I've never had a tube even appear abraided near the hole. I would hazard a guess that maybe some have burrs left from drilling the holes that were never addressed by the mfg, builder or rider, or maybe cranking down too hard on the nut. Cranking the nut used to cause cuts in my road bike tubes that had the proper presta holes, until I realized there was no need to crank the nut hard. As long as the edge is clean and the nut is set lightly, I don't see anyone ever having an issue running Presta tubes in Schrader holds without adaptors. I upgraded to lightweight race tubes on the MTB fall of 2016, 20psi, 80psi, 1.5" tire at 80psi, 2.5" tire at 20psi, doesn't matter, no marks on any of the tubes.

    26" Mavic EX729 rims.

    Yes, it's a sleeve, dirtjunkie. And it's an adaptor. I don't understand the purpose of your comment.
    I don't see how you get away with that.
    A few years ago I got multiple flats, before I figured out what was going on.
    Once I was putting Schrader valved tubes with the appropriate rims again, I stopped getting the tears in the tubes near the valve stem, like when I was using Presta tubes on Schrader rims.
    I don't like fussing with adapters, but DJ's method would work fine too.
    I don't have sharp edges anywhere. Being as I once did industrial electrical for a living, I know sharp edges around holes are a bad thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericmopar View Post
    ...Once I was putting Schrader valved tubes with the appropriate rims again, I stopped getting the tears in the tubes near the valve stem...
    Every Presta valve I have ever seen is externally threaded and has a nut to snug the valve in the rim. The overwhelming majority of Schrader bicycle tubes do not have provision for a nut, and therefore the stem cannot be held tight to the rim.

    We have all seen bicycle wheels with a Schrader stem tilted at a crazy angle; that tells you that the tube has shifted (usually a result of under-inflation) and the stem is trying to accommodate the shift, and possibly saved the tube from tearing.

    If the stem is secured to the rim and the tube were to shift, the valve would have no "wiggle room" to accommodate the shift. The tube then tears at the point of greatest stress -- the base of the stem.

    Not securing the stem to the rim allows the stem to float if the tube shifts. It ultimately will not prevent a flat, but it will be able to shift enough to keep the tube from tearing right away, perhaps buying enough time to get you home.
    Plus, it gives you a visual warning by tilting the stem, alerting you that the tube has shifted and needs to be corrected.

    Coming from a motorcycle background (where nearly all tubes have Schrader stems with lock nuts), riders learned to never tighten the nut on a tube's valve stem.

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingtaco View Post
    Are you running the older ovoid rims, or the newer ones with the rounded edges?
    Rounded edges where, on the valve opening?


    Quote Originally Posted by CaptDan View Post
    Coming from a motorcycle background (where nearly all tubes have Schrader stems with lock nuts), riders learned to never tighten the nut on a tube's valve stem.

    Growing up motorcycle I learned this at a very young age. Probably from 12-14 years old.
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

  59. #159
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    If a tube migrates such that the valve becomes tilted it means that the tube is under inflated and you're at risk of a pinch flat. You can use tire talc to help mitigate migration, inflate to a higher pressure, or go tubeless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    If a tube migrates such that the valve becomes tilted it means that the tube is under inflated and you're at risk of a pinch flat. You can use tire talc to help mitigate migration, inflate to a higher pressure, or go tubeless.
    Another trick I learned at an early age from riding motorcycles. I have always squirted body talc or baby powder in the rim between the tube and tire. Probably the best trick there is to preventing pinch flats. Please tell me they don't sell a product called tire talc now? Probably twice the price of baby powder or body talc and it does the same thing. For those wondering the powder acts as a lubricant between the tire and tube and rim and tube which prevents it getting hung up and pinch flatting.
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

  61. #161
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    Haven't read the entire thread... but has anyone suggested coming up with an entirely new valve standard, one more suited to the demands of mountain biking?

    MTB manufacturers keep changing the standards for wheel sizes, number of gears, head tube dimensions, handlebar diameters, bottom brackets, axle spacing, etc... but after all this time, we still have the same 2 standards for valves.

    I'd like to have a wider valve that accepts air more quickly, doesn't gum up with mud or tire sealant so easily, doesn't get bent out of shape so easily, and is easy to add air to in a hurry when you have gloves on. Especially for fatbikes in the winter. I don't need high PSI. 25 is good enough for me; 40-ish is probably the max you would want for most mountain bike applications.

    Is shrader it, or is there something better?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    We need a new type of valve, one that's bigger than a Presta, and smaller than a Schrader!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Presta+?

    Why stop there? ePresta!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    Presta with boost spacing!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Dropper valves!
    Quote Originally Posted by Weaponized View Post
    Exactly. Droppers, shocks, and forks use them so it shouldn't be such a foreign voodoo concept to wheel makers

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sideknob View Post
    We need a new industry standard!

    Like press-fit valves, tapered valves, carbon valves (is my valve cracked?) etc.

    Whatever it is, I want it long, and I want it low.













    Quote Originally Posted by ray.vermette View Post
    Haven't read the entire thread... but has anyone suggested coming up with an entirely new valve standard, one more suited to the demands of mountain biking?

    MTB manufacturers keep changing the standards for wheel sizes, number of gears, head tube dimensions, handlebar diameters, bottom brackets, axle spacing, etc... but after all this time, we still have the same 2 standards for valves.

    I'd like to have a wider valve that accepts air more quickly, doesn't gum up with mud or tire sealant so easily, doesn't get bent out of shape so easily, and is easy to add air to in a hurry when you have gloves on. Especially for fatbikes in the winter. I don't need high PSI. 25 is good enough for me; 40-ish is probably the max you would want for most mountain bike applications.

    Is shrader it, or is there something better?
    Yes, I quoted several and missed several in that discussion for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

  63. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Please tell me they don't sell a product called tire talc now?
    By “tire talc” I meant standard issue talcum powder applied to a tire instead of to your private bits, but I do recall a couple of decades ago there was a product labeled as Tire Talc marketed for bike use. I don’t know if it’s still around. Probably not.

  64. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Yes, I quoted several and missed several in that discussion for you.
    LOL, yes, but they're joking and I'm dead serious. I mean it. I want a new valve standard that's better suited to mountain biking.

    So many times the bicycle industry has changed standards for dubious gains. Here's a part of the bike that could use some improving, but they haven't done a thing about it.

    But knowing the bike industry, any standard they come up with will be incompatible with our existing rims. We'll have to throw them out and buy new ones.

    That's probably the only thing preventing them from introducing a new standard. They can't yet figure out a way to improve upon valve design AND also make it backwards incompatible.
    Mountain bikers are generally a rational bunch...until someone moves a rock on our favorite trail and we lose our minds - LMN

  65. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray.vermette View Post
    LOL, yes, but they're joking and I'm dead serious. I mean it. I want a new valve standard that's better suited to mountain biking.

    So many times the bicycle industry has changed standards for dubious gains. Here's a part of the bike that could use some improving, but they haven't done a thing about it.

    But knowing the bike industry, any standard they come up with will be incompatible with our existing rims. We'll have to throw them out and buy new ones.

    That's probably the only thing preventing them from introducing a new standard. They can't yet figure out a way to improve upon valve design AND also make it backwards incompatible.
    I don't think it needs improving. The Presta valve is the main [somewhat standard] in the sport and has been since the late 1990's. There really isn't any problem with it that needs fixing. Some of the challenged newcomers to the sport have been used to Shrader valves growing up. A slight learning curve from Shrader and it's all good.
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

  66. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I don't think it needs improving.
    I do. Give me a valve that will accept air faster and won't bend so easily when I'm pumping up a tire like a madman because the black flies and mosquitos are draining me dry in the summer, or when I'm freezing my bits off in the winter.

    I have a high-volume, large chambered floor pump intended for mountain bikes, and fatbikes in particular, but it's really not much faster than a regular pump because the bottleneck in the air delivery IS the valve. The pump could be 2 or 3 times the size and it would still take as long because the air still needs to squeeze through an opening that's only a few millimetres wide.

    The Presta valve is the main [somewhat standard] in the sport and has been since the late 1990's. There really isn't any problem with it that needs fixing. Some of the challenged newcomers to the sport have been used to Shrader valves growing up. A slight learning curve from Shrader and it's all good.
    I've been riding mountain bikes since the early 1990s and road bikes before that. I know how to use both standards and I think both are adequate for the job, but I also think we could design something better. I know a new standard would be a hell of a learning curve for some, but I'm sure they would figure it out.

    ...But it had better be backwards compatible and it had better be one hell of an improvement. I'm not going to throw out all my stuff for "ePresta+ with Boost Spacing".

    Cheers.
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  67. #167
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    I think also there's room for improvement in sealant technology. We need expanding tire sealant like that spray foam stuff in the red can!
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  68. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    I think also there's room for improvement in sealant technology. We need expanding tire sealant like that spray foam stuff in the red can!
    LOL
    True story: The early 90's a buddy of mine had a stand up jet ski with a cracked hull. *ding*ding* idea. Buy the spray foam in a can and fix it. He sprays the foam inside the hull cavity and then goes inside the house for lunch. Comes back out awhile later only to discover his $6K. ski fiberglass hull is now exploded from the expansion. doh! This ski was a new company that was supposed to be better than any other standup ski on the market at the time. He had so many problems and calls to the company this was the final straw. Even though it wasn't the manufacturers fault with this issue he was sick of dealing with this company. He had a friend film him smashing the hull to pieces with a sledgehammer and sent it to the company and told them to stick it and went with another manufacturer. The company ended up going out of business after only two years.

    Moral of the story: Some of that foam expands big time.
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

  69. #169
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    Why presta valve?-airless.jpg

    I am waiting for these.
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    Quote Originally Posted by deke505 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	airless.jpg 
Views:	21 
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ID:	1177170

    I am waiting for these.
    I'm amazed those tires never took off. No air or sealant and meant for different applications. Such as cars heavy equipment and mountain bikes. It's been several years since I heard anything on them.
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    I'm amazed those tires never took off.
    From what I read they feel very dead and heavy.

  72. #172
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    Someone start working on an Awesome Valve.
    ¯\(°_o)/¯

  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    ...
    Ban the presta, it's french.
    You call 'em French valves...
    To me, they are Freedom Valves.





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  74. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by deke505 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	airless.jpg 
Views:	21 
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    I am waiting for these.
    I wouldn't be able to use those tires simply because of the disgusting holes.

    Why presta valve?-holes.jpg

  75. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray.vermette View Post
    Haven't read the entire thread... but has anyone suggested coming up with an entirely new valve standard, one more suited to the demands of mountain biking?
    148 cfm?



    Quote Originally Posted by ray.vermette View Post
    I do. Give me a valve that will accept air faster and won't bend so easily when I'm pumping up a tire like a madman because the black flies and mosquitos are draining me dry in the summer, or when I'm freezing my bits off in the winter.

    Why pumping like a madman with the blackflies biting and mosquitos transferring fluids?*Surely you're tubeless by now eh?

    I see no problem whatsoever with presta, leave it alone!! (I don't wan't to buy new pumps)
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  76. #176
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    What would this new valve be called? Presta and Schrader are pretty unique, so it'd have to be special.

    How about oval valve stems called Ovoida valves?
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  77. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    How about oval valve stems called Ovoida valves?
    Ovoida tall cost?
    ¯\(°_o)/¯

  78. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Why pumping like a madman with the blackflies biting and mosquitos transferring fluids?*Surely you're tubeless by now eh?
    Tubeless still requires valves. Tubeless still goes flat. Do you even have mosquitoes down in New Mexico? Or snow? You don't know my suffering.

    I see no problem whatsoever with presta, leave it alone!! (I don't wan't to buy new pumps)
    ... "and get off my lawn!". Why is everyone so protective of a standard invented in the 1800s that we inherited from the roadies? French roadies at that.

    I'm half-tempted to start a KickStarter campaign to finance some oval valve stems just for spite.
    Mountain bikers are generally a rational bunch...until someone moves a rock on our favorite trail and we lose our minds - LMN

  79. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    What would this new valve be called? Presta and Schrader are pretty unique, so it'd have to be special.

    How about oval valve stems called Ovoida valves?
    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    Ovoida tall cost?
    Quote Originally Posted by ray.vermette View Post
    Tubeless still requires valves. Tubeless still goes flat. Do you even have mosquitoes down in New Mexico? Or snow? You don't know my suffering.



    ... "and get off my lawn!". Why is everyone so protective of a standard invented in the 1800s that we inherited from the roadies? French roadies at that.

    I'm half-tempted to start a KickStarter campaign to finance some oval valve stems just for spite.
    Well Ray, get working on the product while the other two up there get working on the name.
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

  80. #180
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    For running tubes with sealant a Schrader stem is certainly easier than the magic act it takes to pump sealant into a Presta tube.

    For tubeless since most Presta-style stems have removable cores it's a moot point.

    But for the ultimate in tubeless DIY cheapness I really like my "shorty" epoxied-in Schrader valve stems:
    Why presta valve?-p6040002.jpg
    This on a 29er rim but this work exceptionally well for "fat". This was some sort of generic epoxy, JB Weld works the best.
    Content here does not officially represent the CA DPR.

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  81. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    Someone start working on an Awesome Valve.
    Won't work, the awesome strap isn't big enough to replace a tube. :0
    The most expensive bike in the world is still cheaper than the cheapest open heart surgery.

  82. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Well Ray, get working on the product while the other two up there get working on the name.
    Ha ha.

    You guys can rest easy. The bike industry will never change the valve standard, because there's little to no money to be made in changing that standard.

    Here's a video that explains how the bike industry REALLY works:

    Mountain bikers are generally a rational bunch...until someone moves a rock on our favorite trail and we lose our minds - LMN

  83. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray.vermette View Post
    Ha ha.

    You guys can rest easy. The bike industry will never change the valve standard, because there's little to no money to be made in changing that standard.

    Here's a video that explains how the bike industry REALLY works:

    I'm in tears I'm laughing so hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

  84. #184
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    Stans sells Schrader valves for tubeless. 30mm long, threaded with locknut just like presta. Been using them for a year on Easton-havens and Arch with zero issues. They're called (Hugo). Drill baby drill.

  85. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cornfield View Post
    What would this new valve be called? Presta and Schrader are pretty unique, so it'd have to be special.

    How about oval valve stems called Ovoida valves?
    Na I think it'll be named after the inventor... the Vermette Valve™ (or V-valve for short), got a fancy enough long name that it might even eventually become standard for roadies and a cool enough nick name to become an industry standard overnight...
    All the gear and no idea.

  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    Na I think it'll be named after the inventor... the Vermette Valve™ (or V-valve for short), got a fancy enough long name that it might even eventually become standard for roadies and a cool enough nick name to become an industry standard overnight...
    I like it. Can someone get working on the design? I'm just the ideas guy.
    Mountain bikers are generally a rational bunch...until someone moves a rock on our favorite trail and we lose our minds - LMN

  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik_git View Post
    Na I think it'll be named after the inventor... the Vermette Valve™ (or V-valve for short), got a fancy enough long name that it might even eventually become standard for roadies and a cool enough nick name to become an industry standard overnight...

    V²alve™ ?
    ¯\(°_o)/¯

  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray.vermette View Post
    I like it. Can someone get working on the design? I'm just the ideas guy.
    Who's funding the patents?
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

  89. #189
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    I think we need to trademark the name first before someone snatches it up.
    Mountain bikers are generally a rational bunch...until someone moves a rock on our favorite trail and we lose our minds - LMN

  90. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray.vermette View Post
    I think we need to trademark the name first before someone snatches it up.
    We need the product first and then the name and then the name trademark, patents will follow. You are the "idea guy", is there any prototypes yet?
    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    No way man! The great Vans debate of 18 was epic!

  91. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    From what I read they feel very dead and heavy.
    I haven't seen them in stores ever, but I remember solid tires being a thing in the early 80's. I remember it took a good bit of additional energy to move them, turned every ride into a workout.

    I don't think they can ever do this well for bikes. The tires they are producing have self supporting steel belt core under the tread that limits deformation to something similar to a regular tire. This would mean a lot of weight for a bike tire. At best I think they could laminate a soft compound over a hard compound rubber, but you're looking at having an expensive tire that doesn't perform like an expensive tire.

    I'm certain solid bike tires will remain in the realm of casual cruisers and short haul grocery basketed bikes.
    I will suffer no butt-hurt fools!

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