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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmbraceTheHate View Post
    Why are you whining anyways? If you dont like spending the money go spend it elsewhere.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
    ^^Couldn't a similar question be asked of you? Lot of threads on here to choose from...

  2. #77
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    Re: Why are nice bikes so frigging expensive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    ^^Couldn't a similar question be asked of you? Lot of threads on here to choose from...
    Seriously, its a mountain bike forum. This guy is on here whining about the cost of them....sounds like he needs to find a new hobby.

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  3. #78
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    Because....Mountain biking is a really classy sport and we want to discourage riff raff types

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmbraceTheHate View Post
    Seriously, its a mountain bike forum. This guy is on here whining about the cost of them....sounds like he needs to find a new hobby.

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    How exactly am I whining about the price of today's bikes. I love bikes, ride them every day, love the improvements made, especially to mountain bikes and hope they get better and better. All I'm doing is making some relative observations that bicycles, next to other products seem priced very expensive given how simple a machine they are. You can easily spend more money on a bicycle than a motorized dirt bike, that is far more complex, heavier duty, built to last longer over more miles and to take far more abuse that has an engine and often complex electronics. How is that whining, actually? It just seems that bicycles enjoy a pricing premium over many other products that, from a distance seem like they would cost far more.
    Are you really sure about that?

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricko View Post
    Because....Mountain biking is a really classy sport and we want to discourage riff raff types
    Um well, how do ya' argue this....after all it's about image

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSLKauai View Post
    I actually think we're getting very close to the point where weight, components and frame dynamics are nearing a point where improvements will be harder to come by and the real innovation will turn toward competing better via value and pricing. It would not surprise me at all if in the next few years, more companies come out with an absolutely fantastic, light, well built line of bikes that are a lot cheaper. This happens all the time after a stage of meaningful improvements (mountain bike frames) and huge media generated attention (the Lance phenomenon). When some company puts out a line of FANTASTIC mountain bike frames at $400 a pop, it's going to change the industry a lot.
    Nope. They're going to add electronic shifting now. Just XTR for 2015, buit XT and SRAM for 2016. Prices will continue to rise.

    I spent $1000 on my first mtb in 1991 it had 21 speeds, and a rigid steel fork.

    What does $1000 buy you today? Hydraulically damped front suspension, a much wider range of gears (I had a 12-28 out back in 1991) and hydraulic discs if you shop well.

    Sure you can drop $10k on a bicycle, but you can also drop $250,000 on a car.
    www.seanhannity.com <=not what you think it is.

    Homeopathy is the Air Guitar of Medicine.

  7. #82
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    I have 28 bikes at my house. Everything from a Giant Anthem Advanced 0, Borealis XX1 to vintage bikes that are only worth what I feel they are. All of my bikes are fun to ride and have unique personalities but the high end bikes are easily the better bikes to ride, in every respect. Worth every penny.
    I guide and rent bikes in Northern Utah

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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    I have 28 bikes at my house. Everything from a Giant Anthem Advanced 0, Borealis XX1 to vintage bikes that are only worth what I feel they are. All of my bikes are fun to ride and have unique personalities but the high end bikes are easily the better bikes to ride, in every respect. Worth every penny.
    That cop money seems too good to me.
    www.seanhannity.com <=not what you think it is.

    Homeopathy is the Air Guitar of Medicine.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmats View Post
    Aloha,

    The problem(s) as I see it would go something like this. Mountain biking (and cycling) has gone high end/popular. It's a sport (activity) that almost all the big companies have to do some serious marketing to keep up with the other companies. Add to that the fact that all the big companies seem to think we need something new every year (more marketing). Kind of like the drug companies (and other areas like golf clubs), the manufacturers need to recoup their "research" and "advertising" costs as fast as possible so because they're needing to develop new and "better" stuff every year and want to make you think you need it.

    One more ingredient to the mixture. Someone/something's got to pay for all that media stuff like X-Games and Red Bull. They are spectacular for sure but though those companies put out the money, we as consumers pay for it whether it be with Red Bull or any of the companies that are part of the traveling show.

    This is the same reason why NBA, NFL and other products associated to those media things cost so much money. Why do basketball shoes cost so much money, especially if they had that "Jordan" name on it????

    OK, last part. Our economy has tanked (here in the US) so our great US dollar sucks against many places like China and Japan where all the parts/pieces and bulk of manufacturing comes from. Then here in the states our cost of doing business has gone up HUGE amounts..............

    Anyway, my take on what I see..............
    I tend to agree with you that a lot more of what we pay for with a product like a mountain bike goes to sales, marketing, promotion, paying for race teams, special events, etc. than most people realize. The actual cost to manufacture these products is probably a lot lower than most people imagine. But, in order to build the image, hoopla, hype, desire, lust, etc for these products all kinds of marketing plans, costs and employees are needed. It probably doesn't cost incrementally that much more to manufacture a $5,000 bike than a $1,500 bike, but when you throw in all the stuff that just creates desire in the market place, then you get crazy prices to cover all that marketing.
    Are you really sure about that?

  10. #85
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    OK, I have a story here that kind of illustrates the old vs. new and companies that came out with "new stuff" every year and its potential effects on a company's life.

    Back in 1997 or so I was riding a Mongoose Amp - a 23 lb full suspension bike. My gripe? It flexed a lot going through turns. I spied (through my friends) a new bike (then). The Psycle Werks Wild Hare. It had 4.75" of travel with a 5.25 lb frame. This was a super bike and so ahead of its time back then. Well, after riding a "small" version, I just thought the bike was a bit too big for me so I emailed the guys there and they were willing to help design and build a XS version. One of the owners there felt that size bike could fit his fiance so after exchanging emails for about a year, I got one of the first two XS Psycle Werks Wild Hares built. That bike again built into a super 23.5 lb go anywhere, ride everything trail bike. This was a good 7 years or so before the 5 Spot. All bikes from then until around 2005 really didn't come out with a "new" design improvement. Psycle Werks was also a small company without the big "race team" and "advertising $$". Well, they eventually went out of business because they fell off the "popular" bikes like all the other bigger brands and "boutique" brands that came out with "new models" almost yearly.

    Why am I stating this? Because my 1998 Psycle Werks stayed with me until I built up a 2005 5 Spot because it took that long for a good enough replacement was available. In spite of all the marketing hype and so on, there just wasn't anything out there that was as good. All the frames were heavier with no improvement in travel or suspensions. The 5 Spot to me was the first bike with a reasonable weight that could replace the Wild Hare. I gave that bike to a friend who had a really bad brush with luck and built up a 2007 Spot. So essentially I've been riding that same bike from 2005 until this year of which I built up a 2014 27.5 Flux. Meanwhile companies feel the need to bring out "new" bike every year. You can see it with "new catalogs" with new colors and whatever "improvements" they say year after year after year. So like I said up above, like the drug companies, there's a big rush to recoup these costs before the new year comes where they come out with new stuff. After all, it's a vicious cycle to sell as much of the "new stuff" now before it's obsolete and no one wants it and won't pay top dollar for it.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzer16 View Post
    That logic only works if you are the only manufacturer in town. As soon as someone realizes they can take your customers by dropping their price they will.
    That must be why Bikes Direct and Price Point have been sooo successful with storming the market....

    The reality is that it's not quite that straightforward, unfortunately.
    Quote Originally Posted by ridelikeafatkid
    "MOMMY, I WANT TO RIDE LIKE THAT FAT KID!" true story.

  12. #87
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    unless my car's engine died, i prefer a nice bike to anything on your list. now i can justify dropping 6k this year!

  13. #88
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    TLDR

    I dropped 3k on my new bike last year. I laughed as i rolled it out the door thinking about what else i could have purchased for the same $. I feel like it was worth every penny.

    Bike prices are as high as they are because we continue to pay.
    "Bigring, that's deep. ...Well, I suspect it is. I didn't read it."

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSLKauai View Post
    Never ceases to amaze me how often on internet DISCUSSION BOARDS, people will chime in negatively, commenting that the thread isn't necessary and then criticize the guy opening the thread? If you have no interest or have already participated in a previous topic like this, why not ignore it? How does tossing negativity and insults into the arena help anything? I've personally never participated in a discussion on this site about this. Maybe you spend hours and hours every day on the site, pouring over every thread and tracking frequency of topics ... chill out a little. Why waste your time on a topic you're not interested in? And, what exactly am I "whining" about? I'm simply putting out a comparative question of value. It seems odd to me that a relatively simple machine like a bicycle should cost as much as a snowmobile that has thousands of parts with far more engineering and durability built in than a bicycle.
    You'll have to excuse Moe....he has a little more Testosterone, than the rest of us...

    I paid $3500 for a $7800 MSRP bike. I'm losing MORE weight on it, than spending $15,000 in gym memberships over the course of five years. I look forward to every ride on my MTB...than I do arm curls, while watching a bunch of hotties on treadmills.
    "The mind will quit....well before the body does"

  15. #90
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    A lot of the posts on this thread, when boiled down, pretty much amount to:

    I paid a lot of money for my bike, I'm not stupid, so bikes are not that expensive and they're worth it ... because ... once again ... I'm not stupid.

    As much as I suspect we all love mountain bikes and the improvements in design and function, the fact remains that far more complex, technologically advanced products that require far more manufacturing steps and complex parts cost MUCH LESS than mountain bikes That fact that you can buy a very nice motorized dirt bike, with AN ENGINE, heavier duty EVERYTHING, electronics and much greater durability for the same or less cost as a high end mountain bike is, at least to me a strong validation that pricing, in the higher quality end of the biking spectrum, is out of whack.

    But, as stated, as long as people are willing to pay it, they'll charge it. But don't make the mistake of believing that it costs the industry 5x as much to make a $5,000 bike as it costs to make a $1,000 bike, because it doesn't, not even close.
    Are you really sure about that?

  16. #91
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    It's a crazy world. Personally I think it's nuts to spend $400 on a plastic ipad or $7000 on a box to keep beer cold, or any amount of money for a jet ski but people are free to blow their money however they choose.

  17. #92
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  18. #93
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    Last edited by Roanoke4; 06-12-2014 at 05:44 AM.

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roanoke4 View Post
    Hey man (OP), I'm not particularly trying to get involved much in this debate, but I would suggest that you to read up on or study basic economics, which will then give you better clarity as to why particular things are priced where they are, why things increase/decrease in price, and such. I'd suggest "Economics in One Lesson" as a primer. It's a quick, easy, and dare I say somewhat fun read.
    If you would like to have a debate about economics privately, please let me know. I've owned 3 businesses, have hired over 200 employees and have paid a lot of taxes. I actively trade currencies and futures and would happily discuss with you (not on this forum) various economic theories, capitalism, corporatism, price fixing, the relationship between debt, inflation and prices, how advertising/branding and image building influence consumer perception of value, how true cost is generated and the relationship between R&D, manufacturing and sales and marketing expense, etc.. I spend more time on a daily basis reading global economic news than most people spend in a year (are you aware of the global impact of Draghi's news conference this morning regarding the ECB rate decision and possible asset inflation options?) Any IDIOT knows that supply and demand drives a big component of the pricing equation. Obviously, some people are clearly willing to pay a high premium for a perceived quality/performance advantage. That's obvious.

    What's NOT SO OBVIOUS is how did the biking industry generate this pricing premium when obviously their products involve far less engineering, R&D and manufacturing costs than far more complex products.

    And, if you'd like to compare your current financial situation with mine, bring it on in a private message. Before you casually toss out insults on an anonymous internet forum, I'd suggest you consider you may be wrong about your guesses as to the knowledge of the people you're interacting with.
    Are you really sure about that?

  20. #95
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    Last edited by Roanoke4; 06-05-2014 at 01:10 PM.

  21. #96
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    Volume has a lot to do with it. I work in the aerospace world, now that is expensive! Also, we are suckers for MTB short videos, and love to see our products promoted. That costs an awful lot of money!

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSLKauai View Post
    What's NOT SO OBVIOUS is how did the biking industry generate this pricing premium when obviously their products involve far less engineering, R&D and manufacturing costs than far more complex products.
    I think you would be surprised how much their costs are, especially advertising costs. I think the manufactures still have pretty dang high margins on most of the bikes they make. And then the shippers get a cut, and then the LBS get a cut.

    I for one hate the super high prices and will probably never spend more than 3k on a bike. I only spent $1200 on my current new bike because it was a closeout and about 65% off.

    But I really do appreciate the amount of R&D that companies are putting into their bikes these days. Hiring Forumla 1 suspension designers to develop a rear suspension. Super light Hydrolic brakes that have amazing modulation and dont have brake fade. The list goes on. It makes Mountain biking that much easier.

    I am happy that some CEO can keep buying $10k bikes so that companies keep innovating and the technology trickles down to me.

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSLKauai View Post
    If you would like to have a debate about economics privately, please let me know. I've owned 3 businesses, have hired over 200 employees and have paid a lot of taxes. I actively trade currencies and futures and would happily discuss with you (not on this forum) various economic theories, capitalism, corporatism, price fixing, the relationship between debt, inflation and prices, how advertising/branding and image building influence consumer perception of value, how true cost is generated and the relationship between R&D, manufacturing and sales and marketing expense, etc.. I spend more time on a daily basis reading global economic news than most people spend in a year (are you aware of the global impact of Draghi's news conference this morning regarding the ECB rate decision and possible asset inflation options?) Any IDIOT knows that supply and demand drives a big component of the pricing equation. Obviously, some people are clearly willing to pay a high premium for a perceived quality/performance advantage. That's obvious. What's NOT SO OBVIOUS is how did the biking industry generate this pricing premium when obviously their products involve far less engineering, R&D and manufacturing costs than far more complex products. And, if you'd like to compare your current financial situation with mine, bring it on in a private message. Before you casually toss out insults on an anonymous internet forum, I'd suggest you consider you may be wrong about your guesses as to the knowledge of the people you're interacting with.
    Wow I suspected a db, this may have confirmed it.

  24. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by moefosho View Post
    I think you would be surprised how much their costs are, especially advertising costs. I think the manufactures still have pretty dang high margins on most of the bikes they make. And then the shippers get a cut, and then the LBS get a cut.
    .
    Actually, I 100% agree with you here. I said in an earlier post that the overall sales, promotion and event marketing costs in the bike industry must be absolutely astronomical and have a big impact on pricing. I seriously doubt it costs that much more to manufacture a $7,000 bike than it does to manufacture a $1,500 bike. The amount of people willing to pay to go to SEE a bike event/race in person is tiny compared to, for instance car racing, and, as such, the races, special events, etc. are really just promotional costs to sell bikes, parts and accessories. All that cost does nothing to really improve the product, it simply adds additional cost that's built into the product.
    Are you really sure about that?

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiretracks View Post
    Wow I suspected a db, this may have confirmed it.
    DiamondBacks are not the best bikes...

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