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  1. #1
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    Why don't more of the "recreational crowd" run flat pedals? Road & MTB

    Just curious to hear everyone's up to date thoughts on the subject.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by injected59 View Post
    Just curious to hear everyone's up to date thoughts on the subject.
    Huh. I thought they already do.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Huh. I thought they already do.
    =sParty

    Same here, at least off road. For road bikes there's no real down side even for recreational riders imo.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparticus View Post
    Huh. I thought they already do.
    =sParty
    Ok, I can see where I should have clarified that a bit. Let's eliminate leisure folk right away. By recreational I meant serious cyclists, but they don't regularly compete. I ride a few times per week all year round and I guess consider myself recreational since I don't actively race. Yes I know there are people who race on flats aside from the obvious downhillers.
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  5. #5
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    Most of the younger guys I ride with run flat pedals.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by injected59 View Post
    Let's eliminate leisure folk right away. By recreational I meant serious cyclists, but they don't regularly compete.

    I think a good portion of that group does ride flats. Serious cyclists who ride regularly know what they prefer so I think the reason more of them don't ride flats is that they prefer clipless.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I think a good portion of that group does ride flats. Serious cyclists who ride regularly know what they prefer so I think the reason more of them don't ride flats is that they prefer clipless.
    hmm interesting, the reason I posed this question is because I rarely see someone at my local trails (northern IL) with flats.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by injected59 View Post
    Just curious to hear everyone's up to date thoughts on the subject.
    Depends where you are. Some places, flats are the rule, except for ppl serious about efficiency.

    Other places, shops NEVER recommend platform pedals, and they only stock maybe $15 or $20 pairs, when they stock $300 clipless pedals.

    I think a $40 or $50 set of platforms makes sense for most "recreational/sport" riders. Special shoes are beneficial, but not necessary. Not too expensive, but good enough for hard use.

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  9. #9
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    Many of us learned to use clips in the early years. Going back to flats is learning a new skill. We all know that many fast people ride flats with steeze, but I'm waiting to work on that skill after I master the bike with pedals I'm use to.
    oops I wasn't clipped in

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim c View Post
    Many of us learned to use clips in the early years. Going back to flats is learning a new skill. We all know that many fast people ride flats with steeze, but I'm waiting to work on that skill after I master the bike with pedals I'm use to.
    Wtf is "steeze"?

    My wife was told after she bought nicer platforms that if she wanted to upgrade her pedals, that real cyclists ride clipless. In 100% seriousness. This attitude holds people back. Especially when you are talking about new and more timid riders.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Wtf is "steeze"?



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    Style with ease. I looked it up.



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    Quote Originally Posted by jim c View Post
    Many of us learned to use clips in the early years. Going back to flats is learning a new skill.
    This pretty much sums it up for me. I just prefer to be attached to the pedal, even in the sketchy stuff. Unclipping is mostly second nature at this point, but I will only use Time pedals.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by d365 View Post
    This pretty much sums it up for me. I just prefer to be attached to the pedal, even in the sketchy stuff. Unclipping is mostly second nature at this point, but I will only use Time pedals.
    Holy shit. Itís like I typed that myself. Freaky.

    That said, I have been trying to mix it up a bit this year. For flats, I picked up a set of Kona Wah Wah 2 composites that I use with some old 5-10 Freeriders or Sam Hills. My daughter only rides flats and is 7,000x better than me on them. Among many other issues, I am constantly repositioning my feet trying to get them reasonably straight and in the middle of the pedals.

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    A lot of it has to do with location, age, and groups. I had very little reason to ride flats in Wisconsin unless I was looking for things to huck off of. The trails favored efficiency with few features that made flats desirable. In Western NC, I switch back and forth. Some trails don't require constant dismounts or feature technical sections where the ability to get feet off the pedals quickly is a priority. Some trails have more risk of dismounts that make flat pedals desirable. I learned to mountain bike on clipless, but I rode flats on bmx and downhill a fair bit, so I find benefits and comfort to both. Either? Whatever. There are also lots of endubros out there these days, and their extreme riding requires flats. Back in the day, more people raced cross-country. Even half the guys on the Shore were on clipless in the old vhs videos. It's what you did.

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    New riders are brainwashed with old thinking about clipping in. Flat shoes and pedals are probably much better for the confidence and safety of new riders.

    On the other hand, good flat pedals and shoes make a huge difference over plain old tennies and crappy pedals. Some people do themselves a disservice either way by using shoes and pedals that are not ideal, clipped in or not.
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  16. #16
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    There can be a lot of peer pressure in either direction depending on where you are and what crowd you associate with. While serious cyclists may "know what they prefer", what they prefer seems to be generally based on relative inexperience with the other option and lots of hearsay

    I went to clipless about 10 years ago when I was starting to get serious and after bad experiences getting bucked off the pedals on my rocky home trails. That's just what I heard and saw everyone *I* knew do to fix it. And I heard I would be faster

    This past winter I went back to flats, but this time I invested as much in proper 5.10 shoes and decent flat pedals as I originally did in my clipless stuff. I have now realized my original problems came down to wrong shoes, wrong pedals and underdeveloped technique. My flat pedal experience has been great so far, and no issues with losing my footing even when riding those same trails faster than I did 10 years ago

    I'm really glad to have solid experience with both to know that I can switch back-and-forth in the future depending on what I want to do

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Wtf is "steeze"?


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    I think he meant to say his buddy "Steve" rides with flats.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomn View Post
    There can be a lot of peer pressure in either direction depending on where you are and what crowd you associate with. While serious cyclists may "know what they prefer", what they prefer seems to be generally based on relative inexperience with the other option and lots of hearsay

    I went to clipless about 10 years ago when I was starting to get serious and after bad experiences getting bucked off the pedals on my rocky home trails. That's just what I heard and saw everyone *I* knew do to fix it. And I heard I would be faster

    This past winter I went back to flats, but this time I invested as much in proper 5.10 shoes and decent flat pedals as I originally did in my clipless stuff. I have now realized my original problems came down to wrong shoes, wrong pedals and underdeveloped technique. My flat pedal experience has been great so far, and no issues with losing my footing even when riding those same trails faster than I did 10 years ago

    I'm really glad to have solid experience with both to know that I can switch back-and-forth in the future depending on what I want to do
    Similar here- I took a couple spills and kept re-injuring my thumb because I was clipped in. I switched to flats and am not looking back. My MTB avg speeds compared to pre-flats are faster, I have less IT band and TFL pain, and having a lot more fun in general.
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  19. #19
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    Where I used to live almost all serious riders (racer or not) used clips. Flats where mostly used by kids and people just starting to ride using the pedals the bikes came with, one exception, the DH guys.

    Started with clipless almost as soon as I got my first mtb, felt a lot better and releasing became second nature (after taking some silly spills). During my DH/Park days used platforms with 5.10s. Also tried them during the winter with boots, that was terrible (boot kept slipping on the pedal) and quickly went back to clipless.

    Bottom line, use what you like and works for you.

  20. #20
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    I'm not racing anyone, I don't do group rides, I ride for fun. I ride clipless pedals because I like how they feel. That's it, really.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyBoni View Post
    I'm not racing anyone, I don't do group rides, I ride for fun. I ride clipless pedals because I like how they feel. That's it, really.
    Thatís cool man. I agree, and Iím not saying there wonít come a time where I may switch back. I am just really enjoying flats right now and was honestly curious as to why more people donít try flats.


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  22. #22
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    Whatever gets you out the door!

  23. #23
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    out here in Washington state I feel like it is about 50/50 clips vs flats. where as when I lived back in upstate NY it was probably more like 75/25 towards clipless. so I think it depends a lot on location and type of riding that is happening which way the majority heads.

    personally I only ride flats (unless I'm on my road bike), it's just what I am used too and feel most comfortable on (I end up ditching my bike a fair bit).

  24. #24
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    More things for shops to sell and more things for people to buy to show they are really into it. Now with high end platforms and shoes tailored for them its changing a bit. Im riding Hope platforms and 5.10 shoes, weight and price are very close to my XT spds and carbon soled clown shoes. Havent put thr SPDs on in over a year on trail bike.

  25. #25
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    i ride flats on all my bikes, roadbikes included. i've never used a clipless pedal and i likely never will...


  26. #26
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    I ride with flats because that's what I've always used.

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  27. #27
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    Why should they?

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    Why should they?
    Why shouldn't they?

    Boom! Mic drop.
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  29. #29
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    I transitioned to flats when I moved to WA. Partially because I wanted to try it and felt the trails here were less pedal grabbing than those in AZ and partially because I wanted to try it. I love it on my mountain bike.

    However I got doored by a car commuting and had to transfer to my mountain bike for commuting and the flat pedals killed me for the commute. I found that my commuting pedal stroke has a large pull up component in it and i would often lift my foot off the pedal on steep hills. I also found that my feet fell asleep and the bones hurt. It definitely was way worse for me for the road aspect of cycling. Frankly I would say that most people would probably be best served by clipless on the road. Off road I am still 50/50. I like flats and like the shoes for off bike stuff but do sometime miss the pulling up stroke when I am ripping it on a fast flowy flatish trail.

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    History. Flats used to be terrible, and had these things called clips. Then clipless pedals came along and serious riders switched. Now flats are much better, as are the shoes, so there's less need for something like clipless. But you still have a lot of older riders who swear by clipless.

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    I find there's a lot of pressure to ride clipless these days and they are gaining an increasingly mythical status with people quoting massive performance boosts that certainly aren't true and many seem now convinced that it's simply not possible to do longer or faster rides unless you have clipless.

    I changed to clipless on my road bike under fairly relentless pressure as I was told how much faster I'd be, I stuck it out for a while, changed clipless systems and then eventually since the only reason I was sticking with them was because people told me to. The best decision I made was to switch back to my flats which I was faster and could cycle further on as I much prefer the feel.

    Many just won't accept I prefer flat pedals though and I still get fairly constant pressure to change back to clipless pedals.
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    Most of the people I know who ride clipless are either into XC, ultra, or gravel. Itís also the older dudes who are just used to riding clipless.

    I like to switch between them. I will say that I can ascend technical start/stop much better on my SPD pedals than my flats. Also, if you ever do a spin class and switch between clipless and flats, itís very clear that you generate more watts with clipless.

    I know we are already almost there,í but will someone do to shoes what the dropper post did to seats?

  33. #33
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    I ride clipless because its just what I like. To me it feels better than flats. I like having float on the pedal and to have my feet in the same position every time I clip in. With flats...I get no float and I find myself having to re position my feet when I put my foot back on the pedal.

    When using clipless pedals...the shoes are just as important...or more important than the pedal system you're using. I know so many people that initially went with fancy pedals and cheap shoes...then later on complain about how their feet hurt in their cheap shoes.

    I've got an XC (Eggbeaters) bike and trail bike (XT Trail)...both are clipless.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Why shouldn't they?

    Boom! Mic drop.
    Clearly, the OP implies that they should. Your lack of an argument mirrors his.

    You never had the mic, and shouldn't even look at it until you have something to say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hogfly View Post
    I will say that I can ascend technical start/stop much better on my SPD pedals than my flats. Also, if you ever do a spin class and switch between clipless and flats, itís very clear that you generate more watts with clipless.
    Exactly.

  36. #36
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    I learned to ride mtb with clipless pedals. At some point i decided i needed to ride flats to become a better rider. I did it a long time. With practice my FS bike i was ambivalent about them, and my hardtail wasn't nearly as fun- i'd bounce off the pedals when i was riding my best.

    Clipless pedals are cheaper (pd-m520), have better ground clearance, have lots of great/cheap shoe choices... and i don't have to remember to drop my heels when i switch from HT to FS.

    I'm glad i can ride flats, but i don't see them as being particularly advantageous. Unless you're doin' nac-nacs or whatever. Get some shitty clipless shoes, some cheapo clipless pedals, and you won't bounce off your budget hardtail. Pretty compelling. Now you're a clipless rider and there's not much to gain by switching.
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  37. #37
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    On the short and punchy tech stuff, being able to pull up on a pedal often is the difference between dabbing and cleaning the feature. There are a lot of tight, rocky spots on my local trails, and the clipless pedals clear way more obstacles.

    YMMV...
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by injected59 View Post
    Ok, I can see where I should have clarified that a bit. Let's eliminate leisure folk right away. By recreational I meant serious cyclists, but they don't regularly compete. I ride a few times per week all year round and I guess consider myself recreational since I don't actively race. Yes I know there are people who race on flats aside from the obvious downhillers.
    For some reason I seem to sense that there are some flat riders out there that don't understand how some of us can ride DH, drops, gnar, DH racing, etc., on clipless. I fully understand that you can ride XC on flats and I know many that do. Likewise, I ride DH and everything else on clipless and I know many others that do. For some reason, flat-riders that "can't", think that clipless riders can't as well.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    I ride DH and everything else on clipless and I know many others that do.
    Presumably with steeze
    What a perfect waste of time

  40. #40
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    Clipless on my road bikes and single speed. Switched to flats on my other mountain bikes a couple of years ago. Took a little while to learn them but zero regrets. And I actually have those clip-less/flat pedals that everyone hates on my CX.

    Ride what you want. I switched to the platforms because they do give you a split second more time to save yourself. Besides the fraction of a second releasing from the pedal, there is a longer time where you are (consciously or not) deciding if you can still save it or need to bail when clipped in. With plats, you can throw a foot out whether you end up needing to or not. And if you save it but did unclip, at least for me it is slower getting clipped back in than it is getting back on a platform.
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    Clearly, the OP implies that they should. Your lack of an argument mirrors his.

    You never had the mic, and shouldn't even look at it until you have something to say.
    OP said he didn't have an opinion. The one sentence in his post starts with "Just curious"

    That guys mic drop comment was equally as constructive as yours.

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  42. #42
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    my mic drop comment was just me being silly. so serious around here!
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    Quote Originally Posted by .WestCoastHucker. View Post
    i ride flats on all my bikes, roadbikes included. i've never used a clipless pedal and i likely never will...
    Same here. For me is a confidence issue, and also the fact I've never tried them, and I know I won't.

    I'm a newer rider, and I think it is a mental block, but I'm OK with my flats and 510's.
    just get a bike and ride!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Wtf is "steeze"?
    Maybe ask "Mick"...skip to 2:01 to 2:05:


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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Holy shit. Itís like I typed that myself. Freaky.

    That said, I have been trying to mix it up a bit this year. For flats, I picked up a set of Kona Wah Wah 2 composites that I use with some old 5-10 Freeriders or Sam Hills. My daughter only rides flats and is 7,000x better than me on them. Among many other issues, I am constantly repositioning my feet trying to get them reasonably straight and in the middle of the pedals.
    LOL, same here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jreed3 View Post
    LOL, same here.
    Right down to the Time pedals...

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by injected59 View Post
    Ok, I can see where I should have clarified that a bit. Let's eliminate leisure folk right away. By recreational I meant serious cyclists, but they don't regularly compete. I ride a few times per week all year round and I guess consider myself recreational since I don't actively race. Yes I know there are people who race on flats aside from the obvious downhillers.

    Is it OK to restrict the conversation to recreational mountain biking?

    I could never, ever, ever do clipless. Why? There are times on slow, tough, rocky sections where I always need the option of immediately getting off the pedal(s) and steadying myself with my foot on the ground instead of crashing. And that includes uphill on loose dirt. Less than one second between riding and not riding anymore. That only gives me the instinct to put my foot down on the ground, no time for thought about it. Can you really get your shoe out of the clipless pedal that fast? I'd be sideways on the ground before I even completed the thought of how get out of the clipless pedals. Yes, I hear you get used to it. But show me proof that someone can get out of the pedals as fast as lifting off flats. BTW I wear hiking boots on flats. I'm about as far from a road biker as possible and very proud of that lol.
    The masses are...well...you know.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Is it OK to restrict the conversation to recreational mountain biking?

    I could never, ever, ever do clipless. Why? There are times on slow, tough, rocky sections where I always need the option of immediately getting off the pedal(s) and steadying myself with my foot on the ground instead of crashing. And that includes uphill on loose dirt. Less than one second between riding and not riding anymore. That only gives me the instinct to put my foot down on the ground, no time for thought about it. Can you really get your shoe out of the clipless pedal that fast? I'd be sideways on the ground before I even completed the thought of how get out of the clipless pedals. Yes, I hear you get used to it. But show me proof that someone can get out of the pedals as fast as lifting off flats. BTW I wear hiking boots on flats. I'm about as far from a road biker as possible and very proud of that lol.
    Yes. What you are talking about is a complete non-issue for anyone after a couple weeks of riding on clipless pedals.




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  49. #49
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    Yes, I can really get out of a clipless pedal that fast.
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Yes. What you are talking about is a complete non-issue for anyone after a couple weeks of riding on clipless pedals.




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    I agree, though some may struggle more depending on pedal types and shoes.

    As much as I am loving getting back to flats, I could pull out of my Shimano pedals instantly. Never had a problem dabbing for slow stuff or any other emergency situation. Even endoed bad and went flying over the handlebars this past winter but both shoes unclipped and I landed on my feet feeling like Spiderman.

    I did have a lot more problems early on with Crank Bros pedals that needed a more precise foot angle to release. The Shimano pedals don't seem to be as picky in this area

    In fact, getting soft flat shoes off a spiky platform pedal actually feels slower in some ways, because I have to lift up first then go back down to dab

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    Do people actually learn how to track stand, wheelie, manual, endo, etc. with clipless? I would be too scared

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    I can get out of clipless pedals fast two. I can think of two occasions in the past ten years where I clipped out, jumped over the handlebar while the bike was going down. still, flats give me a lot more confidence with only a tiny loss in power.

    I can think of at least three situations in the past few years where I went down HARD because I could not clip out in time.

    I think it's more fun to ride sketchy stuff with confidence at perhaps a slightly slower speed than riding in white-knuckled fear to gain a few seconds on a climb.

    I think most of us are "recreational riders." OP might be asking (stop me if I am off base here) "why are riders pressured into riding clipless so early? is it worth it for them?"

    I felt that early on. I rode BMX for 15 years before getting a mountain bike. I put my bmx pedals and skate shoes on and started riding trails. it was fine, but everyone I encountered told me that I HAD to get clipless pedals.

    I got some and immediately fell off the bike several times. I got good at unclipping and it became quite comfortable with them. However, I have no way of knowing if they really made a difference in my riding. I had been told to expect that I could ride faster and with more confidence because I was clipped in, so I told myself that's what was happening. It was a placebo effect to some degree.

    with the current state of decent pedals and shoes on the market, I don't think that the average weekend warrior and beginner benefits much from trying clipless right away, if ever.
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Is it OK to restrict the conversation to recreational mountain biking?
    Why?
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    Count me in with the group who can get out of their clipless at the speed of light, and as a reflex reaction. Much more comfortable connected to my bike, especially at speed in the gnar. I am tempted to wear a cup with my flats. Iím kidding...kinda...

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Is it OK to restrict the conversation to recreational mountain biking?

    I could never, ever, ever do clipless. Why? There are times on slow, tough, rocky sections where I always need the option of immediately getting off the pedal(s) and steadying myself with my foot on the ground instead of crashing. And that includes uphill on loose dirt. Less than one second between riding and not riding anymore. That only gives me the instinct to put my foot down on the ground, no time for thought about it. Can you really get your shoe out of the clipless pedal that fast? I'd be sideways on the ground before I even completed the thought of how get out of the clipless pedals. Yes, I hear you get used to it. But show me proof that someone can get out of the pedals as fast as lifting off flats. BTW I wear hiking boots on flats. I'm about as far from a road biker as possible and very proud of that lol.
    Yes, I can. There's no thought process to it at all, besides recognizing that you're going to put your foot down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gumby_rider View Post
    Do people actually learn how to track stand, wheelie, manual, endo, etc. with clipless? I would be too scared
    Yes. There's nothing scary about it.
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    If you spend enough time riding clipless...the action of turning your heels out to unclip basically becomes muscle memory. I ride clipless on all my bikes. On the rare time that I do ride flats...when I come to a stop...I'll find myself twisting my heel out trying to clip out of the flats.

    I panic situations...people will try and pull up on their foot..and unless your running a Shimano multi release cleat...you're not going to get your foot off the pedal. If you twist your heel out...you can pretty much get your foot out of the pedal in any situation.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    Yes, I can. There's no thought process to it at all, besides recognizing that you're going to put your foot down.
    yeah. what becomes a natural reaction stays a natural reaction. never used clipless, but i have used clips way back in the day and getting my foot out in time was almost never an issue..


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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    My wife was told after she bought nicer platforms that if she wanted to upgrade her pedals, that real cyclists ride clipless. In 100% seriousness.

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    Someone better tell Sam Hill he needs to step it up, him not being a serious cyclist and all. Wait, does that reflect worse on him or the rest of the field?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    If you spend enough time riding clipless...the action of turning your heels out to unclip basically becomes muscle memory. I ride clipless on all my bikes. On the rare time that I do ride flats...when I come to a stop...I'll find myself twisting my heel out trying to clip out of the flats.

    I panic situations...people will try and pull up on their foot..and unless your running a Shimano multi release cleat...you're not going to get your foot off the pedal. If you twist your heel out...you can pretty much get your foot out of the pedal in any situation.
    I do this all the time. I am always a little embarrassed, like someone saw me picking my nose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gumby_rider View Post
    Do people actually learn how to track stand, wheelie, manual, endo, etc. with clipless? I would be too scared
    I actually prefer the clipless for the track stand as you can pull back on the pedal a little more. The only place that the clipless bothers me for more trialsy moves is the trials hop and jump up on to things. The body english will often unclip a foot for me and then it all goes sideways.

    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Is it OK to restrict the conversation to recreational mountain biking?

    I could never, ever, ever do clipless. Why? There are times on slow, tough, rocky sections where I always need the option of immediately getting off the pedal(s) and steadying myself with my foot on the ground instead of crashing. And that includes uphill on loose dirt. Less than one second between riding and not riding anymore. That only gives me the instinct to put my foot down on the ground, no time for thought about it. Can you really get your shoe out of the clipless pedal that fast? I'd be sideways on the ground before I even completed the thought of how get out of the clipless pedals. Yes, I hear you get used to it. But show me proof that someone can get out of the pedals as fast as lifting off flats. BTW I wear hiking boots on flats. I'm about as far from a road biker as possible and very proud of that lol.
    I got a pair of the first shimano 737's as soon as they came out, took off my platforms with toeclips and went for it, there weren't even commercially available shoes yet. I converted a pair of nike hiking shoes into SPD shoes with a piece of aluminum. I rode clipless only until 3 years ago, when i converted to flats to try something new. Everything I did until that point, DH, climbing, technical trials terrain, urban assault nights, 24hr racing, etc. all done on shimano, and for a short time crank bros, clipless pedals. Never had 1 crash after the first fall over in the early 90's when I was learning, that was from the pedal or difficulty unclipping.

    I would argue that most people who ride clipless probably think the same thing about flats "I could never do a wheelie without clips, I could never climb that technical climb, how do they keep their feet on the pedals?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Someone better tell Sam Hill he needs to step it up, him not being a serious cyclist and all. Wait, does that reflect worse on him or the rest of the field?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    For some reason I seem to sense that there are some flat riders out there that don't understand how some of us can ride DH, drops, gnar, DH racing, etc., on clipless. I fully understand that you can ride XC on flats and I know many that do. Likewise, I ride DH and everything else on clipless and I know many others that do. For some reason, flat-riders that "can't", think that clipless riders can't as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Someone better tell Sam Hill he needs to step it up, him not being a serious cyclist and all. Wait, does that reflect worse on him or the rest of the field?

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    That works for Sam Hill, you are not Sam Hill.

    Virtually everyone else in EWS who is not Sam Hill uses clipless pedals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    If you spend enough time riding clipless...the action of turning your heels out to unclip basically becomes muscle memory. I ride clipless on all my bikes. On the rare time that I do ride flats...when I come to a stop...I'll find myself twisting my heel out trying to clip out of the flats.

    I panic situations...people will try and pull up on their foot..and unless your running a Shimano multi release cleat...you're not going to get your foot off the pedal. If you twist your heel out...you can pretty much get your foot out of the pedal in any situation.
    Just move your leg and your foot will follow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    That works for Sam Hill, you are not Sam Hill.

    Virtually everyone else in EWS who is not Sam Hill uses clipless pedals.
    So I'm not a real cyclist? I think you're a tad confused here bub.

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    I think I got my first SPD pedals about 25 years ago for my MTB. I can't remember what all the thinking was then as to the advantages but I'm sure most people were using them. I've used either SPD's or Look Keos on my road bikes ever since.
    I did try flats on my hybrid that I used for commuting but I couldn't pedal in them, and couldn't get the pedal back to the top after a stopped at a junction. I couldn't get used to them so switched back to SPD's.

    For me I just find it easier to be clipped in than being on flats, I feel more in control of and part of the bike.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    So I'm not a real cyclist? I think you're a tad confused here bub.

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    Does butthurt cause people to forget how to read?

    You are not Sam Hill, and never will be, so I'm not sure why you're invoking his name and ignoring virtually everyone else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    Does butthurt cause people to forget how to read?

    You are not Sam Hill, and never will be, so I'm not sure why you're invoking his name and ignoring virtually everyone else.
    Apparently it does if you're not sure why I mentioned his name.

    Quote Originally Posted by OverlyEnthusiasticKindergartenTeacherVoice;
    In the spirit of school starting back let's break this down to a kindergarten level. Person I quoted, Harold's, wife runs flat pedals. Now her and Harold are both avid riders. Harold, told a, I would say anecdote, but kindergarten, story expressing bemusement, sorry I forgot kindergarten, confusion, and incredulity, hard to believe, about an experience she had with a shop. The shop told her she was not a real cyclist unless she rode clipless. Now the person telling the story Harold obviously disagreed and found slight humor, that means he thought it was funny, in the fact a shop would say this. I too found it pretty funny. Now since the shop thinks only real cyclist are the ones that wear clipless can we both agree that the thought of Sam Hill, the current EWS champion and series leader, not being a real cyclist is funny?


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    This seems like the silliest thing to argue about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRPABT1 View Post
    This seems like the silliest thing to argue about.
    Oh it is. Really I'm not even arguing about clipless versus flats. I made a humorous comment in response to a humorous anecdote. This guy comes out of nowhere guns blazing, insulting me and telling me I'm not Sam Hill. A fact I'm already aware of.

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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    This guy comes out of nowhere guns blazing, insulting me and telling me I'm not Sam Hill. A fact I'm already aware of.

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    i just switched to flat pedals on my mountain bike after 16 years of clipless. I wished i'd done it sooner.

    On my commuter, i have those pedals that are flat on one side, and clipless on the other.

    It's like having the worst of both worlds.

  73. #73
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    I ride trail and commuter on flats and DH on mallet race. I kinda think everyone should at least give each a serious go just to find out what you like or dislike about each type.

    So why this combo for me?* I do quite a bit of technical climbing and like to session things I don't make. All that clipping in and out and more than a few pretty serious scrapes because I seem to be one of those people who doesn't build muscle memory or it gets overridden in certain panic situations. Plus I didn't really notice much power benefit in my trail rides.

    DH I never take my feet of the pedals unless I'm overcooking a corner (bad form to start with). Turns out that movement is pretty much perfect muscle memory for me, I start to drift and my inner foot is out before I even think it. Plus the consequences of losing a pedal is much higher in DH, for me.

    What baffles me about this is why does anyone care what other people ride?* I ride mostly by myself, but when I do ride with others, I would never consider telling someone they should do something different unless they asked for my opinion. Well, maybe if they were clearly struggling and frustrated I would ask them if I could make a suggestion.

    This goes for everything else besides mtb too. Too many people seem to want to push their opinions on others rather than listening to what people are telling them.


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  74. #74
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    I'd say the split is 50/50 with the people I ride with. DH and I ride flats but I really want a pair of MagPeds!

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    For decades I used to ride road and MTB clipped. Now I only have a fatbike and use flats cos I often ride in sketchy sand where dabbing is common and getting restarted after stalling not easy.
    If I was back on a roadie I would be clipped again. Similarly if I was somewhere with firm/ hardpacked trails I'd be clipping in again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IPunchCholla View Post
    What baffles me about this is why does anyone care what other people ride?* I ride mostly by myself, but when I do ride with others, I would never consider telling someone they should do something different
    Welcome to the internet.

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    Pedals: pick the style you like and then be a condending dick about it to everyone.
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  78. #78
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    True, when riding, who has time to criticize and check other's set up.
    Quote Originally Posted by HollyBoni View Post
    Welcome to the internet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Apparently it does if you're not sure why I mentioned his name.





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    Pointing out the sole exception doesn't prove anything. If he was a vegetarian would you suddenly say that was the secret for success, or would you do what works for you? Do you also think his Nukeproof is a superior choice? How about his tire choice?

    He's fast because he's fast, his choice of pedals has nothing to do with that, and again, he's the only one and just happens to be a former DH WC.

    Course, you may have a point if you're also enjoying a similar type of quantifiable relative success, or you may just be reflexively defending your choices. (By "you" I mean people that invoke Sam Hill's name) I'm betting it's the latter, but feel free to show me wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    Pointing out the sole exception doesn't prove anything. If he was a vegetarian would you suddenly say that was the secret for success, or would you do what works for you? Do you also think his Nukeproof is a superior choice? How about his tire choice?

    He's fast because he's fast, his choice of pedals has nothing to do with that, and again, he's the only one and just happens to be a former DH WC.

    Course, you may have a point if you're also enjoying a similar type of quantifiable relative success, or you may just be reflexively defending your choices. (By "you" I mean people that invoke Sam Hill's name) I'm betting it's the latter, but feel free to show me wrong.
    Congratulations on finding the power button this morning I'm sure it was a big accomplishment for you.

    The sole exception to what? Can you read? Surely you aren't this dense in real life. I didn't put forth Sam Hill as an example of anything.

    If I had to guess riding clips makes you feel like a big deal. The fact that Sam Hill has success without them sends you into rage mode just at the mention of his name. It's the only plausible explanation considering I did not use him as an example to do anything. It must suck to go through life so insecure that just the mention, regardless of context, of a person makes you this angry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Congratulations on finding the power button this morning I'm sure it was a big accomplishment for you.

    The sole exception to what? Can you read? Surely you aren't this dense in real life. I didn't put forth Sam Hill as an example of anything.

    If I had to guess riding clips makes you feel like a big deal. The fact that Sam Hill has success without them sends you into rage mode just at the mention of his name. It's the only plausible explanation considering I did not use him as an example to do anything. It must suck to go through life so insecure that just the mention, regardless of context, of a person makes you this angry.

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    This post is what's referred to as "projection." So don't put your insecurity on me, bub.

    What Sam Hill does has nothing to do with what I do, but you seem to want to think it has something to do with what you do, which is why you mentioned him.

    I'm pretty satisfied with what I can do on a bike, both objectively and subjectively, so I don't feel the need to bring up other people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    This post is what's referred to as "projection." So don't put your insecurity on me, bub.

    What Sam Hill does has nothing to do with what I do, but you seem to want to think it has something to do with what you do, which is why you mentioned him.

    I'm pretty satisfied with what I can do on a bike, both objectively and subjectively, so I don't feel the need to bring up other people.
    One question, do you have to ride clipless to be a real cyclist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    ...This guy comes out of nowhere guns blazing...
    Are you for real?

    Live by the sword...

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    One question, do you have to ride clipless to be a real cyclist?

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    You can do whatever you want, just don't go running around claiming superiority based on a sample size of one. Like you did here:

    "Wait, does that reflect worse on him or the rest of the field?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    You can do whatever you want, just don't go running around claiming superiority based on a sample size of one. Like you did here:

    "Wait, does that reflect worse on him or the rest of the field?"
    Like you said it's hard to read when you're butthurt, as you obviously are.

    The joke




















    Your head

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    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Like you said it's hard to read when you're butthurt, as you obviously are.

    The joke




















    Your head

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    Yes, attempting to justify your equipment choice by pointing at someone in a different situation is, in fact, a joke.

    Which was my point.

    If you talk out of your ass on the internet, you shouldn't be surprised when someone calls you out on it. That.is.what.the.internet.is.for. Well, that and porn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    Yes, attempting to justify your equipment choice by pointing at someone in a different situation is, in fact, a joke.

    Which was my point.

    If you talk out of your ass on the internet, you shouldn't be surprised when someone calls you out on it. That.is.what.the.internet.is.for. Well, that and porn.
    Here's the problem. I've attempted to be nice but you're too freaking dense to get it. I have not commented on my personal preference at all. I would love for you to quote where in this thread you think I have. I'm sorry you seem to lack the intelligence to grasp satire but that's a personal problem. It's also a risk of using satire I suppose. Understanding/grasping it requires some level of critical thinking and there is always the person that lacks that ability.

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    Does anyone else think of Colorado or California when they think of "recreational crowd"? I think the majority of those guys are on flats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyBoni View Post
    Welcome to the internet.
    Yeah, but in this thread people in both sides claim they are getting derogatory comments on the trail. Seems the internet and the trail are the same. Which makes me sad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IPunchCholla View Post
    Yeah, but in this thread people in both sides claim they are getting derogatory comments on the trail. Seems the internet and the trail are the same. Which makes me sad.

    The key word is claim. The real world is different.
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    Not sure where you ride, but one of the reasons I enjoy riding is the crowd is friendly, and helpful, people that enjoy nature and a challenge, beer and just good natured.

    This is from someone that usually rides alone.

    There are always idiots, but is not because they are cyclists, they are just idiots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wyomad View Post
    Not really. Cyclists are notorious "I'm better than you" elitist shit****s..

    I've been riding my whole life, worked in bike shops for a few decades, lived and rode in many different areas and have no recollection of ever experiencing that, probably because 98% of cyclists I've met have been pretty cool people. Notorious lol, that is internet bs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    The key word is claim. The real world is different.
    In my experience it is. People just being chill doing something they love. Just hope it is that way for the people reporting here.

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    ^you must project some serious funk to see things that way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Pedals: pick the style you like and then be a condending dick about it to everyone.
    "Condending"...haha...you 'little people' are sooo stuppid
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  96. #96
    mtbr member
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    A few fun facts:

    My wife won XC cat 1 National champ on flats
    All My friends who race open Enduro ride clipped in on clip-less platforms.
    Some people grow tired of destroying their shins with pinned platforms and ride clip-less because of this.
    Taco Bellís chicken breast comes from the same supplier as Chic-filet.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    Yes, attempting to justify your equipment choice by pointing at someone in a different situation is, in fact, a joke.

    Which was my point.

    If you talk out of your ass on the internet, you shouldn't be surprised when someone calls you out on it. That.is.what.the.internet.is.for. Well, that and porn.
    I think tuckerjet's point is that Sam Hill is a real cyclist. A counter-example to the often cited point that you can't be a real cyclist unless you ride clips. Not sure he said anything about his own personal choices.

  98. #98
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    Taco Bellís chicken breast comes from the same supplier as Chic-filet.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yes but the Taco Bell chickens are raised down in the dirt desert valley and the Chic-Filet chickens are raised in the meadows on top of the hill near a babbling brook over looking the ocean.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  99. #99
    One ring to mash them all
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    Parts is parts.

    There are three things in the world that deserve no mercy, hypocrisy, fraud, and tyranny.
    - Frederick William Robertson

  100. #100
    Cycologist
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Yes but the Taco Bell chickens are raised down in the dirt desert valley and the Chic-Filet chickens are raised in the meadows on top of the hill near a babbling brook over looking the ocean.
    Why don't more of the "recreational crowd" run flat pedals?  Road & MTB-boneless-chicken-ranch-far-side-247x300.jpg
    There are two types of people in this world:
    1) Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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