Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 201 to 300 of 307
  1. #201
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    73
    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Other than the Railyard and Lake Atalanta there isn't anything within riding distance there. Rogers is definitely where I would go for breweries and food but is a novelty for trails.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    As others said, the Railyard and Lake Atalanta are best bet. Railyard is awesome, but it's very susceptible to rain closure. One thing you're close to in East Rogers is Hobbs State Park, which is one of the better XC rides (with some newly developed flow/jump lines on the War Eagle Loop). Definitely have to drive, but it's 20 minutes away and often gets overlooked due to all the newer "flashier" trail development around NWA.

  2. #202
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    389
    Butte Montana

  3. #203
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 04 F2000SL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    414
    The real question is why are po dunk towns with zero opportunity jobs and insane housing price even a thing.

    I’ve even looked at the local Facebook job pages for these towns and nobody seems to be interested in outdoor activities it’s simply locals that would leave if they had two nickels to rub together.

    One guy thought being a hotel desk clerk was a career and many are just people looking for odd jobs like laying visqueen under single mom’s trailers. These aren’t insults but actual fact.

  4. #204
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MikeDee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,745
    Quote Originally Posted by 04 F2000SL View Post
    The real question is why are po dunk towns with zero opportunity jobs and insane housing price even a thing.

    I’ve even looked at the local Facebook job pages for these towns and nobody seems to be interested in outdoor activities it’s simply locals that would leave if they had two nickels to rub together.

    One guy thought being a hotel desk clerk was a career and many are just people looking for odd jobs like laying visqueen under single mom’s trailers. These aren’t insults but actual fact.
    Do you mean insanely low or high housing prices? If you're retired like me, you don't need a job.

  5. #205
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 04 F2000SL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    414
    The houses are over priced. What should be 120k is 420k

    I’m not retired

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post
    Do you mean insanely low or high housing prices? If you're retired like me, you don't need a job.

  6. #206
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    25
    Quote Originally Posted by FishMan473 View Post
    I want to say it was 2016, and we stayed in Rodgers. Only visited Bentonville for the trails.

    I'd be really interested in suggestions for good trails within riding distance of the east side of Rodgers. I'm sure we'll be back soon.
    Have you ever spent anytime in Eureka Springs? It's quite the dichotomy, I like to refer to the area as a bunch of gun toting hippies with Hill Billy tendencies. I love it for vacations, and if you ride motorcycles or fish it's like Shangri-La. Although it would be hard to find work there. I'd think living between Bentonville and Eureka Springs could be just right

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

  7. #207
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cbrossman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,380
    Quote Originally Posted by 04 F2000SL View Post
    The houses are over priced. What should be 120k is 420k

    I’m not retired
    A house is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it; no more, no less.

    I'm not clear on the meaning of your previous comment, but I suspect I live it the kind of town you attempting to describe ... Durango.
    But beyond relatively expensive housing (not Telluride or Limon), people move and remain here for the outdoor opportunities, not matter what the financial impacts are.

    I believe that if the OP did not qualify their question with affordable, which is clearly a relative term, Durango would be all over these posts and for good reason.
    It is expensive because people want to live here, supply and demand, and not just because it has some of the best mountain biking available.
    Craig, Durango CO
    "Lighten up PAL" ... King Cage

  8. #208
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MikeDee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,745
    Quote Originally Posted by cbrossman View Post
    A house is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it; no more, no less.

    I'm not clear on the meaning of your previous comment, but I suspect I live it the kind of town you attempting to describe ... Durango.
    But beyond relatively expensive housing (not Telluride or Limon), people move and remain here for the outdoor opportunities, not matter what the financial impacts are.

    I believe that if the OP did not qualify their question with affordable, which is clearly a relative term, Durango would be all over these posts and for good reason.
    It is expensive because people want to live here, supply and demand, and not just because it has some of the best mountain biking available.
    Tourist towns always have high priced housing. They attract wealthy folks that buy vacation homes. A place like Oakridge OR isn't a tourist town and has low priced housing; more or less the definition of a podunk town with few job opportunities, though I've never been there.

  9. #209
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Porkchop_Power's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    237
    Affordable is a very relative term as well. Coming from a large city $400K is extremely affordable and most people can easily pay cash for such a house after cashing out equity on a home they have owned for just a few years. Even in the poorest area you can't build new for less than $200K for a standalone house. While labor may be cheaper materials costs are the same or even more in remote locations. The only reason that there are sub $200K homes anywhere is that the population is declining and there is more supply than demand. In the front range of Colorado, including water tap fees and other development fees, the absolute minimum to build and sell a single family home is now around $350K if you are very far from a downtown area and land is cheap.

  10. #210
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    73
    Quote Originally Posted by onewheelwunder View Post
    Have you ever spent anytime in Eureka Springs? It's quite the dichotomy, I like to refer to the area as a bunch of gun toting hippies with Hill Billy tendencies. I love it for vacations, and if you ride motorcycles or fish it's like Shangri-La. Although it would be hard to find work there. I'd think living between Bentonville and Eureka Springs could be just right

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    Main problem with Eureka is lack of economy. Other than that, it’s a pretty unique charming place. On top of that, they’re opening 6 new legitimate downhill runs at Lake Leatherwood there which are intended to make it the top downhill destination between the Applachians and the Rockies. Semenuk has been sighted at the builds consulting on the designs.

    They’re also developing a whole other trail system there on the site of the Greaf Passion Play. Definitely a cool town, if you can find work or work remotely. Crazy, eclectic population. One of my best friends is from there, so I’ve spent a lot of time hanging with the locals.

  11. #211
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    28,897
    Quote Originally Posted by Porkchop_Power View Post
    Affordable is a very relative term as well. Coming from a large city $400K is extremely affordable
    IMO, this is crazy as fk. Housing has gone absolutely ballistic in most places and families that could afford a house 20 years ago have no real hope of doing so anymore. These same type of families are not making 2-3x what they did back then, but the houses cost 2-3x more.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  12. #212
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Awshucks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    716
    Quote Originally Posted by hogfly View Post
    As others said, the Railyard and Lake Atalanta are best bet. Railyard is awesome, but it's very susceptible to rain closure. One thing you're close to in East Rogers is Hobbs State Park, which is one of the better XC rides (with some newly developed flow/jump lines on the War Eagle Loop). Definitely have to drive, but it's 20 minutes away and often gets overlooked due to all the newer "flashier" trail development around NWA.
    We stayed in Rogers during spring break this year in lake Atlanta and had an absolute blast riding at Hobbs state park although war eagle trail was closed

    Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

  13. #213
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JoePAz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4,385
    Quote Originally Posted by Porkchop_Power View Post
    Affordable is a very relative term as well. Coming from a large city $400K is extremely affordable and most people can easily pay cash for such a house after cashing out equity on a home they have owned for just a few years...
    had that is so freaking funny and out of touch. $400k is ALOT of money and most people don't have that kind of cash or equity. Alot of people have had any equity wiped out in the last 10 years. I know I do. If I am lucky I am at ZERO. If not I am still negative. $350k for new single family home around here is not even close to being true. It is ALOT less. And I love in a big city of jobs and lots of Mtb trails all over.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  14. #214
    Your Best Friend
    Reputation: Silentfoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,991
    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    had that is so freaking funny and out of touch. $400k is ALOT of money and most people don't have that kind of cash or equity. Alot of people have had any equity wiped out in the last 10 years. I know I do. If I am lucky I am at ZERO. If not I am still negative. $350k for new single family home around here is not even close to being true. It is ALOT less. And I love in a big city of jobs and lots of Mtb trails all over.
    A lot. Two words. Thank you.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

  15. #215
    Nat
    Nat is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    12,664
    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    A lot. Two words. Thank you.
    Grammar zea lot.

  16. #216
    Your Best Friend
    Reputation: Silentfoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,991
    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Grammar zea lot.
    Not to derail, but we don't know each other. Not many of us do. Our only way to communicate is through writing. When you can't spell or use proper grammar, you come across as less than intelligent. Are you less than intelligent? Are you good with other people thinking you are a moron based solely on how you write? I'm not. You shouldn't be either.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

  17. #217
    Nat
    Nat is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    12,664
    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    Not to derail, but we don't know each other. Not many of us do. Our only way to communicate is through writing. When you can't spell or use proper grammar, you come across as less than intelligent. Are you less than intelligent? Are you good with other people thinking you are a moron based solely on how you write? I'm not. You shouldn't be either.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    I agree with you (but I'm funnier).

  18. #218
    Your Best Friend
    Reputation: Silentfoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,991
    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    I agree with you (but I'm funnier).
    Most likely true.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

  19. #219
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pitdaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    155
    Average home price in America can vary from 200-285k
    Average income for couples- $118k
    Average income for single- $35k

    Rule of thumb- income x 2 to 2.5 = how much house you can afford.

    Where do you fall?


    Here are my sources-

    New home price-
    https://www.census.gov/construction/...uspricemon.pdf

    Existing home prices-
    https://ycharts.com/indicators/sales...existing_homes

    https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_ex...ge_sales_price

    Average and Median Cost for A Pre-owned (Used) Home in The United States

    Average Sales Price of Houses Sold for the Unites States-
    https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ASPUS

    Average Income-
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...come/93002252/

    https://www.fool.com/retirement/2016...me-how-do.aspx

    Earnings at every age-
    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/24/how-...every-age.html

  20. #220
    mtbr member
    Reputation: coke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,311
    Quote Originally Posted by pitdaddy View Post

    Rule of thumb- income x 2 to 2.5 = how much house you can afford.
    That rule may be close to how much of a loan someone might be approved for, but it's far in excess of what most people should spend.

  21. #221
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pitdaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    155
    Quote Originally Posted by coke View Post
    That rule may be close to how much of a loan someone might be approved for, but it's far in excess of what most people should spend.
    While I do agree with you statistics show a couples annual income is about half the average price.

    Back to the question of "MTB town with lowest cost of living", are we talking mtb only? I'd rather be in a ho-hum place not known for any one thing in particular with a decent mtb community/club.

  22. #222
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Porkchop_Power's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    237
    That rule of thumb is way low and was tailored to a much higher interest rate environment. Rule of thumb now is probably closer to 4x income with 5x income in higher cost areas. There is also a huge difference where property taxes are low vs. high. A $400K mortgage (on a $500K house with 20% down) at 4.625% (latest average rate per FNMA) is only $2057 per month. Add $400 for taxes and insurance per month and it is still less than $2500 per month. Using the 35% of gross income for housing (what most mortgage companies use) this is only a $85K household income.

  23. #223
    Nat
    Nat is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    12,664
    Quote Originally Posted by coke View Post
    That rule may be close to how much of a loan someone might be approved for, but it's far in excess of what most people should spend.
    Are you saying that if you make $50K/year then you should spend no more than $100K for a house?

  24. #224
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Porkchop_Power's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    237
    That is why the 2 to 2.5 rule is absolutely wrong. Using 4 to 5x it is $200K to $300K which is very doable on a $50K salary. Being in the finance industry I see these numbers all the time. Also, the absolute biggest issue (aside having $100K in loan debt for a liberal arts degree) is having a $600-$800K car payment per month because someone thought the needed a $50K new truck or car. And yes many places will approve people with $30K incomes for this type of car payment with 12% interest or more.

  25. #225
    Nat
    Nat is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    12,664
    Which car?












    I think I need it.

  26. #226
    One ring to mash them all
    Reputation: the one ring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    812
    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Which car?
    Quote Originally Posted by Porkchop_Power View Post
    $600-$800K car payment per month
    Damn, not a car … an F-35?
    ¯\(°_o)/¯

  27. #227
    One ring to mash them all
    Reputation: the one ring's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    812
    I thought the rule of thumb was that monthly housing expenses should not exceed x% of your monthly income, where "expenses" include principal + interest, hazard insurance, property taxes and (if applicable) mortgage insurance? And "x%" I believe was 25% way back when we bought our house.
    ¯\(°_o)/¯

  28. #228
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    1,718
    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    Not to derail, but we don't know each other. Not many of us do. Our only way to communicate is through writing. When you can't spell or use proper grammar, you come across as less than intelligent. Are you less than intelligent? Are you good with other people thinking you are a moron based solely on how you write? I'm not. You shouldn't be either.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    Then I must suggest that you actually use proper grammar in your posts. By the criteria you laid out yourself, in the above post, you come across as less than intelligent.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  29. #229
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Porkchop_Power's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    237
    Yes, but 35% is what is usually used.

  30. #230
    slow
    Reputation: sgltrak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    5,208
    Obviously prices vary depending on where you are in each state, but this is a nice overview of the salary needed to afford the median priced home in each state.

    I found this online at
    https://www.vividmaps.com/2018/04/sa...tate-2018.html

    What MTB town has the lowest cost of living?-howmuch.jpg

  31. #231
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Porkchop_Power's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    237
    Good chart and makes sense. Really goes to show how the coasts and mountain west have a much higher cost of living then the middle of the country.

  32. #232
    mtbr member
    Reputation: zgxtreme's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    456
    Love being in a green state!

  33. #233
    mtbr member
    Reputation: coke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,311
    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Are you saying that if you make $50K/year then you should spend no more than $100K for a house?
    Yes roughly, but that's just my opinion.

    Average person:

    Car loan(s)
    Credit card debt with high interest
    Little to no cash savings or emergency funds
    Nicer house than really needed that takes a large portion of their income
    Probably either saving no money for retirement or just doing the minimum to get a company 401k match

    My thoughts

    Drive a modest car. It's honestly hard to believe someone would spend $50k on a truck.
    Have at least 6 months of expenses of cash saved to get you through tough times if needed.
    Avoid high interest debt. If you don't have cash for something, don't buy it.
    Live in a modest house.
    Put the max allowed in your retirement account. I believe the 401k limit is $18,500 for 2018.


    In my experience, having your finances in order so you aren't living paycheck to paycheck results in a far greater quality of life. That sense of stability and lack of worry will make you happier than any material thing you can buy.

    I'm personally making some of these sacrifices now so I don't have to work my entire life. Hoping to retire while I'm still young and healthy enough to enjoy life.

  34. #234
    Nat
    Nat is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    12,664
    Hmmm, I agree with your thoughts overall but I didn't think one could even find a house to buy for <$100K any more. Where I live, if there was such a house available it would be in pretty rough shape or in a very undesirable area.

  35. #235
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pitdaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    155
    So back to the original question of what town has the lowest cost of living?

    Pretend you have to pay cash for everything but your house. And pretend you have to come up with 20% down payment on that house. Now where would you go?

    I'm not going to derail this thread trying to teach someone how to spend their allowance.

  36. #236
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pitdaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    155
    Quote Originally Posted by coke View Post
    Yes roughly, but that's just my opinion.

    Average person:

    Car loan(s)
    Credit card debt with high interest
    Little to no cash savings or emergency funds
    Nicer house than really needed that takes a large portion of their income
    Probably either saving no money for retirement or just doing the minimum to get a company 401k match

    My thoughts

    Drive a modest car. It's honestly hard to believe someone would spend $50k on a truck.
    Have at least 6 months of expenses of cash saved to get you through tough times if needed.
    Avoid high interest debt. If you don't have cash for something, don't buy it.
    Live in a modest house.
    Put the max allowed in your retirement account. I believe the 401k limit is $18,500 for 2018.


    In my experience, having your finances in order so you aren't living paycheck to paycheck results in a far greater quality of life. That sense of stability and lack of worry will make you happier than any material thing you can buy.

    I'm personally making some of these sacrifices now so I don't have to work my entire life. Hoping to retire while I'm still young and healthy enough to enjoy life.
    But I'm entitled to that 3000sq ft house & Ferrari F430!

  37. #237
    _CJ
    _CJ is offline
    membership renounced
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,091
    Quote Originally Posted by sgltrak View Post
    Obviously prices vary depending on where you are in each state, but this is a nice overview of the salary needed to afford the median priced home in each state.

    I found this online at
    https://www.vividmaps.com/2018/04/sa...tate-2018.html

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	HowMuch.jpg 
Views:	100 
Size:	123.0 KB 
ID:	1193704
    Interesting, but not even remotely accurate. Who buys a house that expensive with 10% down? "Average" houses should be second or third homes, with far more than 10% equity in them. Kind of smells like that USA Today article from a few years ago that said the American dream requires a $130K salary, which is of course absolutely ridiculous.

  38. #238
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    379
    Po Dunk. Is that towns that have neighborhoods that smell like skunk all the time?

  39. #239
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    9,378
    One of the interesting things about CA vs. CO is that wage growth in CO is more or less stagnant.

    While home prices in the Front Range aren’t Bay Area level yet, people are buying them with a lot less salary.

    Something has to give eventually.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  40. #240
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JoePAz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4,385
    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    Interesting, but not even remotely accurate. Who buys a house that expensive with 10% down? "Average" houses should be second or third homes, with far more than 10% equity in them. Kind of smells like that USA Today article from a few years ago that said the American dream requires a $130K salary, which is of course absolutely ridiculous.
    This is a simple comparison and not meant to figure out how much you can afford. Seems reasonable to me. It pulls the average house price in each state and does a simple calculation on salary based on some canned formulas. Generally this is another way to look at average home price per state. It shows some states have much higher average home prices. That said I not sure if they are using "average" or "median" Median is actually a better number since average can be skewed by a few really expense homes.

    What I am surprised is how expensive Colorado has become.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  41. #241
    Nat
    Nat is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    12,664
    I don't care what the map says, I will NOT move to Ohio.

  42. #242
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WHALENARD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,734
    Quote Originally Posted by sgltrak View Post
    Obviously prices vary depending on where you are in each state, but this is a nice overview of the salary needed to afford the median priced home in each state.

    I found this online at
    https://www.vividmaps.com/2018/04/sa...tate-2018.html

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	HowMuch.jpg 
Views:	100 
Size:	123.0 KB 
ID:	1193704
    This map needs average 2 and 1 person household income to have any utility.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  43. #243
    _CJ
    _CJ is offline
    membership renounced
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,091
    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    What I am surprised is how expensive Colorado has become.
    We're all surprised. Anyone who wants to suggest inflation is low isn't paying attention. Restaurant prices have damn near doubled in the last five years, and real estate is through the roof.

    As I said before, the Californication of Colorado is real.


    .

  44. #244
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    31,604
    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    We're all surprised. Anyone who wants to suggest inflation is low isn't paying attention. Restaurant prices have damn near doubled in the last five years, and real estate is through the roof.

    As I said before, the Californication of Colorado is real.


    .
    Yep, I moved back to Northern Colorado from San Diego 6 years ago. I thought I was coming back to lower prices, not! The restaurant pricing in Colorado is on par with California yet the portions are smaller. The real estate is also the roof. Rents are higher in Colorado than California. The only thing that I’ve noticed that is lower in Colorado from California is gas prices.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  45. #245
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Curveball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    2,187
    Quote Originally Posted by sgltrak View Post
    Obviously prices vary depending on where you are in each state, but this is a nice overview of the salary needed to afford the median priced home in each state.

    I found this online at
    https://www.vividmaps.com/2018/04/sa...tate-2018.html

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	HowMuch.jpg 
Views:	100 
Size:	123.0 KB 
ID:	1193704
    For Washington State, that high cost mostly comes from three counties around Seattle. The rest of the state is much cheaper. Especially east of the Cascades and the coast.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  46. #246
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Curveball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    2,187
    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    We're all surprised. Anyone who wants to suggest inflation is low isn't paying attention. Restaurant prices have damn near doubled in the last five years, and real estate is through the roof.

    As I said before, the Californication of Colorado is real.


    .
    As is the Californication of Washington. Well, at least the Seattle area.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  47. #247
    Your Best Friend
    Reputation: Silentfoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,991
    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    For Washington State, that high cost mostly comes from three counties around Seattle. The rest of the state is much cheaper. Especially east of the Cascades and the coast.
    That's generally true of all the States. Highest prices around the biggest cities or in tourist locations while the rest of the State is reasonable.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

  48. #248
    Nat
    Nat is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    12,664
    It makes sense to me. The more desirable a place is to live the more expensive it is to live there.

  49. #249
    _CJ
    _CJ is offline
    membership renounced
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,091
    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    It makes sense to me. The more desirable a place is to live the more expensive it is to live there.
    Not true in Colorado. I do a fairly regular real estate search for the entire state, and the entire state is significantly more expensive than other states I do similar searches on.

    It's getting harder and harder to justify living here. On one hand, our house is becoming a retirement nest egg because it's appreciating so quickly. On the other hand, the smart money cashes out before the crash.

    Add in the insanely priced health insurance I'm forced to buy, because I'm self employed and more reasonably priced plans have been outlawed for people my age, and it's even harder to stay. Lets not even get into the overcrowding and overwhelmed/crumbling infrastructure.


    .

  50. #250
    Nat
    Nat is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    12,664
    Colorado as a whole is desirable, no? More than say, Mississippi?

  51. #251
    _CJ
    _CJ is offline
    membership renounced
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,091
    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Colorado as a whole is desirable, no?
    No. Without getting into a debate about specific locations, I know of plenty of places in other states that dollar for dollar are far more "desirable", unless maybe legal weed is your primary factor in desirability.


    .

  52. #252
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pitdaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    155
    What about someplace like Las Vegas / Henderson, NV area? I would imagine it's a large enough to cover all the range of housing, jobs, etc.?

  53. #253
    Nat
    Nat is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    12,664
    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    No. Without getting into a debate about specific locations, I know of plenty of places in other states that dollar for dollar are far more "desirable", unless maybe legal weed is your primary factor in desirability.
    I'll have to ponder that a bit.

  54. #254
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    31,604
    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    No. Without getting into a debate about specific locations, I know of plenty of places in other states that dollar for dollar are far more "desirable", unless maybe legal weed is your primary factor in desirability.


    .
    Which I blame as a huge part of the influx in population growth. Come on people get a life. Moving to a state because of the legalization of weed, really? What gets me about living here is the amount of out of state plates I see with drivers smoking openly. It’s like they think they’re cool to do so. What they apparently don’t know is they are susceptible to getting a driving under the influence ticket, just like alcohol.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  55. #255
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    9,378
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Which I blame as a huge part of the influx in population growth. Come on people get a life. Moving to a state because of the legalization of weed, really? What gets me about living here is the amount of out of state plates I see with drivers smoking openly. It’s like they think they’re cool to do so. What they apparently don’t know is they are susceptible to getting a driving under the influence ticket, just like alcohol.
    The rapid growth in CO’s population started well before marijuana became legal. It’s increased by 800,000 people since 2007. 1,300,000 since 2000.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  56. #256
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    31,604
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    The rapid growth in CO’s population started well before marijuana became legal. It’s increased by 800,000 people since 2007. 1,300,000 since 2000.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I know, but the legalization has certainly added to the rapid growth.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  57. #257
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Curveball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    2,187
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    The rapid growth in CO’s population started well before marijuana became legal. It’s increased by 800,000 people since 2007. 1,300,000 since 2000.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That sounds very much like Washington too. Where do all these people come from?

    I suspect that we're seriously overpopulating this planet.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  58. #258
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    207
    Hobbs... damn, now I want to go to Hobbs!

    I'll gladly drive past Slaughter Pen/Back40 to have Hobbs for myself for a few hours.

  59. #259
    Perpetually Intermediate
    Reputation: chuck80442's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    273
    I listened the Singletracks podcast last week, and just stumbled upon this thread and read through the whole thing...and I find it hard to believe that, other than a quick mention of Albuquerque, New Mexico is nowhere to be found.

    Santa Fe is expensive, but outside of that there are towns up and down the Rio Grande Valley that are a million times cheaper than Colorado and rideable year round. Crazy drought this winter allowed me to ride nonstop here in Taos. This isn't normal, but even in a big snow year I can head south a few hours and ride, plus there's Colorado just north for summer and Southern Utah just a half day's drive away.

    Jobs are tough, which is why this place is still relatively empty, which is kind of weird when you consider that it's tucked between the fat wallets of Texas and Colorado, but if you can swing it you'll never look back. I grew up in San Diego AND a mountain town in Colorado (Fraser/Winter Park) and I'd never go back to either. Folks here think Taos is expensive, but houses can easily be found for under $200k if you're not attached to big and fancy and new, and you can bike, hike, raft, ski and all the rest to your heart's content.

    New Mexico has a rough edge, and tons of poverty, but the climate is relatively easy (no humidity!) (only crazy hot way down south) and varied, as is the landscape, and the food is the best in America IMO. If you can tone down your expectations and meet the place on its own terms then there are a number of good options.

  60. #260
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    207
    how are places like Breaking-Bad-Land (Alb) and Las Cruces?

  61. #261
    Bikesexual
    Reputation: jcd46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    5,126
    Quote Originally Posted by chuck80442 View Post
    I listened the Singletracks podcast last week, and just stumbled upon this thread and read through the whole thing...and I find it hard to believe that, other than a quick mention of Albuquerque, New Mexico is nowhere to be found.

    Santa Fe is expensive, but outside of that there are towns up and down the Rio Grande Valley that are a million times cheaper than Colorado and rideable year round. Crazy drought this winter allowed me to ride nonstop here in Taos. This isn't normal, but even in a big snow year I can head south a few hours and ride, plus there's Colorado just north for summer and Southern Utah just a half day's drive away.

    Jobs are tough, which is why this place is still relatively empty, which is kind of weird when you consider that it's tucked between the fat wallets of Texas and Colorado, but if you can swing it you'll never look back. I grew up in San Diego AND a mountain town in Colorado (Fraser/Winter Park) and I'd never go back to either. Folks here think Taos is expensive, but houses can easily be found for under $200k if you're not attached to big and fancy and new, and you can bike, hike, raft, ski and all the rest to your heart's content.

    New Mexico has a rough edge, and tons of poverty, but the climate is relatively easy (no humidity!) (only crazy hot way down south) and varied, as is the landscape, and the food is the best in America IMO. If you can tone down your expectations and meet the place on its own terms then there are a number of good options.
    Hmmm very interesting!

  62. #262
    Perpetually Intermediate
    Reputation: chuck80442's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    273
    Las Cruces is desert hot in summer with, from what I'm told and have read on MTBR forums, tons of good riding year round.

    Albuquerque has all the good and the bad of New Mexico multiplied to city scale, but I've grown to love it. Milder than Taos (which is up near the Colorado border) but not as hot as Las Cruces. It's about 500k in population, with a major university and a unique vibe in every way....plus a growing system of foothills and mountain trails, with much more an hour or two away. It's off the map still but I can't imagine it will stay that way forever, although the crime and aforementioned poverty holds it back.

  63. #263
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Curveball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    2,187
    Quote Originally Posted by chuck80442 View Post
    I listened the Singletracks podcast last week, and just stumbled upon this thread and read through the whole thing...and I find it hard to believe that, other than a quick mention of Albuquerque, New Mexico is nowhere to be found.

    Santa Fe is expensive, but outside of that there are towns up and down the Rio Grande Valley that are a million times cheaper than Colorado and rideable year round. Crazy drought this winter allowed me to ride nonstop here in Taos. This isn't normal, but even in a big snow year I can head south a few hours and ride, plus there's Colorado just north for summer and Southern Utah just a half day's drive away.

    Jobs are tough, which is why this place is still relatively empty, which is kind of weird when you consider that it's tucked between the fat wallets of Texas and Colorado, but if you can swing it you'll never look back. I grew up in San Diego AND a mountain town in Colorado (Fraser/Winter Park) and I'd never go back to either. Folks here think Taos is expensive, but houses can easily be found for under $200k if you're not attached to big and fancy and new, and you can bike, hike, raft, ski and all the rest to your heart's content.

    New Mexico has a rough edge, and tons of poverty, but the climate is relatively easy (no humidity!) (only crazy hot way down south) and varied, as is the landscape, and the food is the best in America IMO. If you can tone down your expectations and meet the place on its own terms then there are a number of good options.
    Taos you say? Yeah, I can definitely see that as being a very cool place to live. It would certainly beat the constant cold rain of Seattle, much lower cost of living, biking, skiing powder instead of Cascade concrete, etc.

    I bet I'd really like it.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  64. #264
    Nat
    Nat is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    12,664
    My wife and I spent a week riding in NM back in 1995 and really enjoyed it. Red River was a cool town as was Taos. South Boundary trail was the main attraction and I’d imagine there’s more trail now.

  65. #265
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    31,604
    And Taos is on the verge of exploding. It’s already got ONE Starbucks.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  66. #266
    Perpetually Intermediate
    Reputation: chuck80442's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    273
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    And Taos is on the verge of exploding. It’s already got ONE Starbucks.
    And a brand new IHOP!

  67. #267
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    73
    We love New Mexico, and you’re right that it probably should have made the list. I think the fact that Santa Fe is considered the main MTB town in the state, and it’s so expensive probably kept it off. But there are definitely other more affordable places to live in NM. We’ve considered moving out there, but we mainly love Santa Fe, and it’s crazy expensive. I’m also in education, and the education system in NM isn’t great (says the guy living in Arkansas. Hah). The huge income inequality in Santa Fe is also bothersome.

    But the food makes up for it all!

  68. #268
    _CJ
    _CJ is offline
    membership renounced
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,091
    Quote Originally Posted by hogfly View Post
    The huge income inequality in Santa Fe is also bothersome.
    It's pretty bad in the whole state really. Little pockets of wealth surrounded by abject poverty. The government seems horribly corrupt, and the population isn't very well educated. My wife and I spent some time looking around down there, and have some friends who moved there a few years ago. The people we know really like it, but they came from places where the sun never shines (Portland & Chicago). It's definitely cheap, but the crime is real. I know (motorcycle) people who won't ride alone, or at all, in remote areas because of breaking bad type stuff.

    All that said, there are definitely far worse places to live, and I haven't ruled it out myself. The biggest draw for me is there isn't a major metropolitan city with millions of people. No Denver, LA, Phoenix, Seattle, etc. ABQ is the biggest, but it's no bigger than Colo Sprgs. It's a lot like Colorado, but without the angry mob in Denver flooding into the mountains every weekend.

  69. #269
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Porkchop_Power's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    237
    I know a lot of people who grew up in NM. Everything people are saying is true. The riding can be great, there are literally hundreds of thousands of square miles of desert and high mesa where you can ride on whatever trails you find or build and not see anyone on a year round basis. Cost of living is cheap. But crime is an issue (somewhat avoidable if you know where to avoid) but the real issue that keeps them from going back is the absolutely terrible schools. Job prospects are also not great unless you are an engineer / scientist and work at Los Alamos.

  70. #270
    Perpetually Intermediate
    Reputation: chuck80442's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    273
    Quote Originally Posted by Porkchop_Power View Post
    I know a lot of people who grew up in NM. Everything people are saying is true. The riding can be great, there are literally hundreds of thousands of square miles of desert and high mesa where you can ride on whatever trails you find or build and not see anyone on a year round basis. Cost of living is cheap. But crime is an issue (somewhat avoidable if you know where to avoid) but the real issue that keeps them from going back is the absolutely terrible schools. Job prospects are also not great unless you are an engineer / scientist and work at Los Alamos.
    All true. NM is definitely not for everyone, but the worst of the crime and bad schools can be easily avoided via the right town/neighborhood and/or charter schools, neither of which necessarily require one to be wealthy. The job problem is the toughest nut to crack, and many of my friends here in Taos are either freelancers who could live anywhere, have a specific skill (computer or auto repair) they parley into a small business, or work for the Forest Service or BLM, or similarly taxpayer funded jobs like teachers or social workers or whatever.

    Tough to get by, but as you mentioned, those millions of acres of empty public land (and a swell climate) MINUS the throngs of people found just north in Colorado, make it a pretty unique place with tons of great riding and empty trails for anyone willing to take the chance and work around/with the darker aspects. It's a bit like the Wild West, way less sanitized than other places in the Rocky Mountains and beyond, which is what helps keep it off the map, for better and for worse.

  71. #271
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pitdaddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    155
    Thank you for the information on New Mexico. It has not been "Californicated" yet & guess now I know why. If a person is pretty self-sufficient it could be an ideal place. Looks like most of the mtb trails are near ABQ, Sante Fe, Angel Fire, & Taos area.

  72. #272
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,977
    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    This couldn't be more true. I am from California, moved to the midwest when I was a kid but still spent summers out there with family. In 2005 my wife and I moved to Denver and after fighting tooth and nail for decent jobs out there, we eventually decided to come back to the midwest. Since 2005 Denver alone has changed so much that I barely recognize it. It's actually really sad. I used to drive to Breckenridge to snowboard with some buddies that lived up there, and the majority of the population was millennials trying to hack it up high so they could be close to the resorts, and mountain hippies. Now it's a giant mess of Audi's with SWorks road bikes on top.

    It's sad, I remember we tried to take a family camping trip before we moved out of California and ended up driving home late at night because the campsites were full. Colorado is quickly becoming the same way.
    Colorado is not *becoming* the same as California, it *is* the same as California now.

    Most State Parks in CO now have online reservations, and if you aren't on the internet the moment the reservations open, you're screwed. If you want to camp NFS or BLM, you'd better slot in on Thursday morning at the latest, or be able to go very deep into the backcountry.

    Just for jollies, I just looked at Golden Gate State Park, and *every* campsite is reserved for *every* weekend through the summer.

    I am happy the value of my house has shot through the roof, so I can GTFO of the Front Range when I retire in a few years. I would really like some areas of SW Colorado, but the populations are exploding in the nice areas out there. Might have to make the brave move and go to NM or even somewhere weird like NW Nebraska or SW South Dakota. Crime is a real factor in NM, a friend of mine lives near ABQ and he has some crazy stories, including pumping gas at a convenience store while the clerk inside was murdered for $125.

  73. #273
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    73
    I had a friend who was traveling out West, and I had mentioned how much we loved the riding and food in Santa Fe. They decided to stop over there for the night and do a ride. Woke up the next morning to no bikes on their vehicle. I felt guilty as hell for not warning him about bike theft in the area (which I mean... anyone should take precautions to avoid, but some area, like Santa Fe, are worse than others). We slept with our bikes in our freaking room in a tiny Sage Inn one year.

    Now we get AirBNBs that are bike friendly and have a place to store our bikes or at least somewhere secluded to put them away from street view.


    Some other friends who lived in ABQ were telling us about a theft ring that would target UHauls at hotels... as in... they'd break into them, hotwire them, and steal the whole thing in order to get the contents. That would be a damned rude awakening at a hotel in the morning.

  74. #274
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    612
    Not where I live in eastern Pennsylvania north of Philly and west of NY. First it got invaded by people from NY and NJ fleeing high taxes. Generic ugly McMansion developments popped up everywhere.

    Now the rise of e-commerce made my area the Inland Empire of the East for distribution centers so warehousing/tractor trailers basically paved over a lot of what farms were left with more to come.

    Pennsylvania - The nation's highest gas taxes, worst trash-filled potholed roads, and most corrupt politicians, a.k.a. "Harrisburglars".

    The shame of it is we have some really nice technical trails, historical towns (mine stored the Liberty Bell overnight and was a major stop on the Underground Railroad), and good microbreweries.

  75. #275
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    28,897
    Quote Originally Posted by hogfly View Post
    I had a friend who was traveling out West, and I had mentioned how much we loved the riding and food in Santa Fe. They decided to stop over there for the night and do a ride. Woke up the next morning to no bikes on their vehicle. I felt guilty as hell for not warning him about bike theft in the area (which I mean... anyone should take precautions to avoid, but some area, like Santa Fe, are worse than others). We slept with our bikes in our freaking room in a tiny Sage Inn one year.

    Now we get AirBNBs that are bike friendly and have a place to store our bikes or at least somewhere secluded to put them away from street view.


    Some other friends who lived in ABQ were telling us about a theft ring that would target UHauls at hotels... as in... they'd break into them, hotwire them, and steal the whole thing in order to get the contents. That would be a damned rude awakening at a hotel in the morning.
    I don’t know anywhere in the US where I would leave my bikes on the rack overnight at a hotel. That’s asking to have bikes stolen.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  76. #276
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    378
    Quote Originally Posted by chuck80442 View Post
    I listened the Singletracks podcast last week, and just stumbled upon this thread and read through the whole thing...and I find it hard to believe that, other than a quick mention of Albuquerque, New Mexico is nowhere to be found.

    Santa Fe is expensive, but outside of that there are towns up and down the Rio Grande Valley that are a million times cheaper than Colorado and rideable year round. Crazy drought this winter allowed me to ride nonstop here in Taos. This isn't normal, but even in a big snow year I can head south a few hours and ride, plus there's Colorado just north for summer and Southern Utah just a half day's drive away.

    Jobs are tough, which is why this place is still relatively empty, which is kind of weird when you consider that it's tucked between the fat wallets of Texas and Colorado, but if you can swing it you'll never look back. I grew up in San Diego AND a mountain town in Colorado (Fraser/Winter Park) and I'd never go back to either. Folks here think Taos is expensive, but houses can easily be found for under $200k if you're not attached to big and fancy and new, and you can bike, hike, raft, ski and all the rest to your heart's content.

    New Mexico has a rough edge, and tons of poverty, but the climate is relatively easy (no humidity!) (only crazy hot way down south) and varied, as is the landscape, and the food is the best in America IMO. If you can tone down your expectations and meet the place on its own terms then there are a number of good options.
    Good post. NM is one place that I keep coming back to look at again and again because it reminds me a lot of Colorado from many, many years ago but I also love the unique NM culture. I just haven't found the particular location yet that screams "home" to me like Colorado Springs did 30 years ago. ABQ is too big for what we want, although the communities that straddle the Sandias might suit, particularly on the Eastern slope. Santa Fe is too expensive and, while charming in some ways, give me all the same bad vibes I get from Boulder. I spent a lot of time in Las Cruces and Alamogordo in my previous life working at WSMR and Ft. Bliss. I like the size and location of Taos but didn't care for the new-age artsy-fartsy scene there. I haven't hit Silver City yet but it looks interesting and I have to revisit and take my wife to Ruidoso which I haven't seen in 20some years myself.

    I can live wherever I want to as long as I have good broadband internet and reasonably (2hrs by my reckoning) close to a decent airport - so what else in NM should we consider?
    Last edited by TheBaldBlur; 05-02-2018 at 03:57 AM.

  77. #277
    bikes don't have motors
    Reputation: life behind bars's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,241
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBaldBlur View Post

    I can live wherever I want to as long as I have good broadband internet and reasonably (2hrs by my reckoning) close to a decent airport - so what else in NM should we consider?



    Angelfire if it's affordable. Ski in the winter, mountain bike in the summer. Reasonably close to Taos.
    Quote Originally Posted by me View Post
    Of all the paths you take in life, make sure that most of them are dirt.

  78. #278
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,668
    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    People migrate. I never understood the mindset of the local mentality anywhere. People who are born a state and remain there get an attitude towards people that move into that state from other states. Get over it, people migrate.

    This rant by no means was directed at either one of you.
    Being that you are from Colorado, this statement makes me respect you even more.

    This placed is filled with heady "locals", that just moved here last year.

    Not an entirely blanket statement though. I've met some seriously wonderful people that are born and raised. I've also met some seriously wonderful people that have come from other places. It's the douches in between....ugh...

  79. #279
    mtbr member
    Reputation: juan_speeder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,393
    Quote Originally Posted by Nat View Post
    Grammar zea lot.
    Alt Write
    Scarlett Johansson loves my hummus.

  80. #280
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    437
    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    People who love to fat bike will argue all day what constitutes "year-round riding".

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    yup, how about Marquette Mi.

  81. #281
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    378
    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    Angelfire if it's affordable. Ski in the winter, mountain bike in the summer. Reasonably close to Taos.
    AF is nice but I prefer Red River even more - though I don't know what the riding is like there. Both of those, and Taos for that matter, are outside of my 2hr drive to airport rule though.

  82. #282
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
    Reputation: DIRTJUNKIE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    31,604
    Quote Originally Posted by TheBaldBlur View Post
    AF is nice but I prefer Red River even more - though I don't know what the riding is like there. Both of those, and Taos for that matter, are outside of my 2hr drive to airport rule though.
    You know what they say about rules, don’t you?
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  83. #283
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    75
    Western NC.

  84. #284
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MikeDee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,745
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    The Bay Area gaining population and CA losing population are not mutually exclusive.

    Also, the Census makes continual population estimates every year.

    Not “fake news” at all.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


    On the local news today, California's population increased by 309,000 people last year.

  85. #285
    always licking the glass
    Reputation: stripes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    1,283
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post


    On the local news today, California's population increased by 309,000 people last year.
    Yeah that doesn’t make the news here. not sure where they’re gonna put those people though.
    Guerrilla Gravity BAMF, Colorado Front Range
    Writer, MTB4Her.

  86. #286
    _CJ
    _CJ is offline
    membership renounced
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,091
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDee View Post


    On the local news today, California's population increased by 309,000 people last year.
    Fake news.

    Not showing net gain or loss for the state, only showing total population, and increase in SF & SJ.


    .

  87. #287
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    9,378
    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    Fake news.

    Not showing net gain or loss for the state, only showing total population, and increase in SF & SJ.


    .
    Can you explain why you believe the numbers are not real?

    Something besides, “It doesn’t fit my point of view”, please.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  88. #288
    Your Best Friend
    Reputation: Silentfoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,991
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Can you explain why you believe the numbers are not real?

    Something besides, “It doesn’t fit my point of view”, please.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I think what he's saying is that it mentions new residents only but doesn't mention if that is a net gain? If 5 people move into my neighborhood but 10 move out, my population went down but I can claim 5 new residents. It also only says an increase in one area. Did all of the others stay the same or decrease? This image from the news is a very one sided spin.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

  89. #289
    bikes don't have motors
    Reputation: life behind bars's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,241
    Yes, most recent reports on Calif. population has it at a net decrease.
    Quote Originally Posted by me View Post
    Of all the paths you take in life, make sure that most of them are dirt.

  90. #290
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    9,378
    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    I think what he's saying is that it mentions new residents only but doesn't mention if that is a net gain? If 5 people move into my neighborhood but 10 move out, my population went down but I can claim 5 new residents. It also only says an increase in one area. Did all of the others stay the same or decrease? This image from the news is a very one sided spin.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    Well...

    “The news” didn’t say that. Mike Dee did.

    The info graphic only said X number of new residents. It didn’t say that the population increased.

    So, MikeDee’s interpretation of it is probably incorrect, but that doesn’t at all discredit the graphic and the information it contains.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  91. #291
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    1,718
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Well...

    “The news” didn’t say that. Mike Dee did.

    The info graphic only said X number of new residents. It didn’t say that the population increased.

    So, MikeDee’s interpretation of it is probably incorrect, but that doesn’t at all discredit the graphic and the information it contains.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Actually it does discredit the graphic on a certain level. It shows that the graphic is somewhat ambiguous. That in turn leads to the question of was it an honest mistake or was it purposely constructed by the broadcasting station to be ambiguous and open to interpretation.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  92. #292
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    9,378

    What MTB town has the lowest cost of living?

    Quote Originally Posted by tuckerjt07 View Post
    Actually it does discredit the graphic on a certain level. It shows that the graphic is somewhat ambiguous. That in turn leads to the question of was it an honest mistake or was it purposely constructed by the broadcasting station to be ambiguous and open to interpretation.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
    There’s also the possibility that the next frame of the broadcast showed that the population only increased by 50,000 residents (spitballing). Point being, that is one picture, and while incomplete, the data on that one picture is not incorrect.

    Imagine a kids book that says, on page one, that squares are rectangles. Then, when you flip the page, it says that they have four equal length sides, and right angles. Page one is not incorrect, even if page two is omitted.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  93. #293
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    9,378

    What MTB town has the lowest cost of living?

    Double post.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  94. #294
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MikeDee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,745
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Well...

    “The news” didn’t say that. Mike Dee did.

    The info graphic only said X number of new residents. It didn’t say that the population increased.

    So, MikeDee’s interpretation of it is probably incorrect, but that doesn’t at all discredit the graphic and the information it contains.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Guess you had to watch the newscast like I did. There is a net increase in population of 309K FOR THE STATE AS A WHOLE over the last year. It was a Bay Area newscast, so they had to put their spin on the local effects. The Sacramento area also experienced a population increase and they talked about increasing traffic and a shortage of housing/prices going up in that area as well.

  95. #295
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    1,718
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    There’s also the possibility that the next frame of the broadcast showed that the population only increased by 50,000 residents (spitballing). Point being, that is one picture, and while incomplete, the data on that one picture is not incorrect.

    Imagine a kids book that says, on page one, that squares are rectangles. Then, when you flip the page, it says that they have four equal sides. Page one is not incorrect, even if page two is omitted.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The picture is still ambiguous and poorly constructed. A smaller font could have been used to convey the complete picture. One should never rely on a secondary visual to clarify, enhance yes, clarify no, the first. There is no guarantee that the audience will still be attentive.

    Your children's book and shapes arguments makes so many apples to oranges comparisons I'm not even going to bother pointing them out individually.

    Judging by his follow up post if the broadcast was truly saying there was a net increase I hope we can both agree the picture just went from poorly to horribly constructed.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  96. #296
    Formerly of Kent
    Reputation: Le Duke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    9,378
    Agreed.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Death from Below.

  97. #297
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,510
    I'm in SoCal and would like to know where they plan on getting the water for all of these new residents. They don't have enough water for those that are already here.

  98. #298
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MikeDee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,745

    What MTB town has the lowest cost of living?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    I'm in SoCal and would like to know where they plan on getting the water for all of these new residents. They don't have enough water for those that are already here.
    I'd like to know where all these people are coming from. Who's buying up all the real estate driving up prices and rents? Foreigners? Is the California economy really that much better than the rest of the country? My favorite art supply store is closing because some SOB bought the building and raised the rent 30%.

  99. #299
    _CJ
    _CJ is offline
    membership renounced
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    1,091
    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Can you explain why you believe the numbers are not real?
    hmmmmmmmm

    https://www.scpr.org/news/2018/05/03...while-the-bay/

    "California's economy may be growing, and its population may be steadily increasing. But more people continue to move out of the state every year than those moving in from other states.......Newborns and immigrants from other countries keep California’s population steadily growing.....But if you only look at people moving within the United States, California continues to lose people to states like Texas, Arizona and Nevada. "


    .

  100. #300
    Cymru am byth!
    Reputation: cwtch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    95
    My humble opinion is anyplace that is awesome to live and has good weather and great trails isn't going to be cheap.
    he smelt of triflow, had a nice smile, with kind eyes... so I married him

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. lowest entry cost GPS for Strava
    By head in forum GPS, HRM and Bike Computer
    Replies: 90
    Last Post: 07-14-2014, 03:16 PM
  2. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-23-2013, 03:47 PM
  3. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 01-29-2013, 09:31 PM
  4. Lowest Cost with...
    By maxkimber in forum Beginner's Corner
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-20-2011, 12:19 AM
  5. Replies: 42
    Last Post: 07-11-2011, 11:26 PM

Members who have read this thread: 616

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

mtbr.com and the ConsumerReview Network are business units of Invenda Corporation

(C) Copyright 1996-2018. All Rights Reserved.