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  1. #1
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    Walmart Carbon Fiber bicycle

    Well it’s here it’s queer and I’m not used to it. A carbon hardtail at your local wal ie world!

    https://youtu.be/m5KX8EVuYs8

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    No, Thank you!
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  3. #3
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    it's a intresting bike. i wouldn't pay $400.00 for it. I'm riding a $129.00 wallyworld 29" and I'm looking to upgrade. this wont be the upgrade

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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky13don View Post
    it's a intresting bike. i wouldn't pay $400.00 for it. I'm riding a $129.00 wallyworld 29" and I'm looking to upgrade. this wont be the upgrade

    I'm by no means a brand boy, but how safe could that bike be?

    Can't wait for the videos of people bombing down a trail on it to test it.
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  5. #5
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    Interesting. I see this as good thing. Bike prices are getting ridiculous. Downward market forces may benefit us all.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  6. #6
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    Maybe it's solid carbon fiber?

  7. #7
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    No my Walmart actually has one in stock and I inspected it. It’s hollow and seems fairly thin in areas like the top tube as a normal bike would. The internal routing is pretty neat on it as are other features. If they make a 29 that’s the 5’10” to 6’2” in Walmart sizing I’ll buy it. These are for teenagers

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Maybe it's solid carbon fiber?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 04 F2000SL View Post
    These are for teenagers
    Teenagers that you don't like very much.

  9. #9
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    Seems odd they'd go to the trouble of making a carbon fiber bike but then make it a 26er.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04 F2000SL View Post
    No my Walmart actually has one in stock and I inspected it. It’s hollow and seems fairly thin in areas like the top tube as a normal bike would. The internal routing is pretty neat on it as are other features. If they make a 29 that’s the 5’10” to 6’2” in Walmart sizing I’ll buy it. These are for teenagers
    I'm not sure I'd put a 100 pound 5 footer on that frame. Someone who is 6'2" tall and proportionally heavy would, I think, put himself in danger riding that bike.

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    I am impressed with the guy's detail in the review and that he has apparently reviewed many Walmart bikes. He has around 11k subscribers.

    The thing that jumps out to me is why 26"? Was that the key to hit the price point?

    Also wonder if these frames are of similar quality to those buy-direct/low-cost carbon frames from China that are the subject of the voluminous MTBR thread?


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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post

    I'm by no means a brand boy, but how safe could that bike be?


    I don't think it would be any less safe than any other Malwart bike, I'm sure the frame is overbuilt and probably the least likely part on that bike that would kill you.
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    Snafu? Like the bmx parts brand? Not surprised at Mcgoo.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I don't think it would be any less safe than any other Malwart bike.
    That's like saying 'This shite sandwich won't taste any worse than any other shite sandwich'.

    This bike is nothing to get even remotely exited about. It's just another junk bike with junk parts that won't perform well or last long. Who knows how they made a carbon frame at the price but who cares. This is not a high-end carbon frame, it's a clunky and cheap frame that happens to be made out of something that can vaguely qualify as carbon fiber. It's just another tag-line bike designed to fool the gullible into thinking they are getting a high quality bike for the price of a Chinese takeaway.

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    KevCentral tested one (he tests a lot of BSO)

    weighs 31# due to bad components. If they made a good Al bike, rigid CF fork it would be a much better bike....
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    I am impressed with the guy's detail in the review and that he has apparently reviewed many Walmart bikes. He has around 11k subscribers.

    The thing that jumps out to me is why 26"? Was that the key to hit the price point?

    Also wonder if these frames are of similar quality to those buy-direct/low-cost carbon frames from China that are the subject of the voluminous MTBR thread?


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    They made it 26" because they are considered "toys" and not bikes. None of these are intended to be ridden off road. Most have warning stickers on them that indicate that they are meant for the paved paths.

    And people buying these death machines at Walmart don't know what bikes are, so they buy based on price.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    That's like saying 'This shite sandwich won't taste any worse than any other shite sandwich'.
    Sort of, but more like saying that if you use this for actual mountain biking the carbon frame will be the least of your worries.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    Interesting. I see this as good thing. Bike prices are getting ridiculous. Downward market forces may benefit us all.

    This is the run of the mill 3x7 freewheel-based drivetrain so many $400 bikes have. Amazon has an $850 26" carbon-fiber bike that actually has 'real' Shimano Deore components, 3x10 drivetrain, air fork, I guess the equivalent of a decent bike 10 years ago. But that's not really the issue if you ask me. You can take a bike frame and put all the components you want on it later, but the Amazon one above is 27 lbs. There are 27-28 lb aluminum hardtails, so to me the weight is the real issue; is the carbon fiber frame worth it if the whole bike is not any lighter? I don't care about the frame absorbing bumps so personally no it's not worth it compared to aluminum. Unless it's 24 lbs or less then I'm not sure what the point is about going all goo goo ga ga about carbon fiber.

    But yes I totally agree that cheaper bikes drive competition. There are 1x drivetrain bikes now under $1000. And some of these bikes are not quite as bad as you may think. I use the analogy of a guy that just bought a $25,000 Subaru WRX going into a Porsche forum and asking "What do you think of my new car?" The Porsche guys will all say it's crap. But the Subaru can put up similar numbers on the street, just not on the track. Same with cheaper bikes. Most of them are going to do just fine for normal trail riding. Most of them over $500 have the same components 'good' bikes did 20 years ago. They just can't go downhill 40 mph and take 6 foot jumps. Some of us don't want to do that even if we could. The cheaper bikes are slower and heavier, they shift coarser, but they can do a normal trail. Some guys gawk at my bikes on the trail, but I'm on the same trail as them, and the bike didn't fall apart, much to their amazement and probably confusion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Seems odd they'd go to the trouble of making a carbon fiber bike but then make it a 26er.

    A lot of Chinese bikes are still 26". 26" is not dead, it's just Chinese lol. I was looking at a $1700 27.5 Chinese carbon fiber bike on Amazon, 2x11, air fork, etc. 24 lbs. It seems like a good deal but I'm not sure about the warranty. It's kinda hard to ship it back to China if there was a major problem. They have a 26" version for $1050. On paper that seems like a pretty good deal but I admit it's a really unknown quantity for holding up long-term.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Some guys gawk at my bikes on the trail, but I'm on the same trail as them, and the bike didn't fall apart..
    Yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Sort of, but more like saying that if you use this for actual mountain biking the carbon frame will be the least of your worries.

    I don't mean this sarcastically at all, but what is your exact definition of mountain biking? This bike is a heavy version of an XC bike but can it not do XC trails at all? I would not buy it but I'm just asking what the minimum threshold for a real mountain bike trail is, as in how rocky, how steep, jumps or not, etc. A lot of people say "This will not work" but they don't explain in detail.
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    I don't mean this sarcastically at all, but what is your exact definition of mountain biking? This bike is a heavy version of an XC bike but can it not do XC trails at all? I would not buy it but I'm just asking what the minimum threshold for a real mountain bike trail is, as in how rocky, how steep, jumps or not, etc. A lot of people say "This will not work" but they don't explain in detail.
    I think the threshold would be where the manufacturer does not adhere a sticker to the fork and frame saying "not for off-road or trail use" like all BSO have nowadays.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikej View Post
    They made it 26" because they are considered "toys" and not bikes. None of these are intended to be ridden off road. Most have warning stickers on them that indicate that they are meant for the paved paths.

    And people buying these death machines at Walmart don't know what bikes are, so they buy based on price.
    Thanks! That is a critical piece of information that the reviewer did not include. Maybe he views it as a standard given that is understood when reviewing Walmart bikes?


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  24. #24
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    I don't have a problem with cheap bikes in principal. People buy them, they kinda work and no one is forcing me to ride one. If they did not exist there would be thousands of people who would not be riding a bike at all.

    I'm not keen on this bike though because it is cynical marketing over substance. If they had used an alloy frame and better components they could have made a better bike for the same money but they don't care about making the best bike. They only care about fooling their customers into thinking it's the best bike for the money and I can't respect that.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    I don't mean this sarcastically at all, but what is your exact definition of mountain biking? This bike is a heavy version of an XC bike but can it not do XC trails at all?

    It's an xc bike shaped object. I could limp that thing gingerly around any of the trails I ride without any problems but I like to push myself and there's no way I would give it full gas on a 25mph downhill run on a pos like that. My life is worth more than $399, to me anyway.

    So I could ride it without breaking it but I just wouldn't have much fun.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    I'm not keen on this bike though because it is cynical marketing over substance. If they had used an alloy frame and better components they could have made a better bike for the same money but they don't care about making the best bike. They only care about fooling their customers into thinking it's the best bike for the money and I can't respect that.

    Big box stores have always specialized in selling bicycle shaped objects, designers concentrate on making them appear the same as a "Specialized" or whatever to the untrained eye from 10 feet away.

    I agree this one is a particularly bad value because they just slapped extra cheap parts on what is undoubtedly a horrible frame that happens to be carbon fiber, presumably anyway. All the potential buyer will see is "carbon fiber" and think "oh yeah!"
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    You all are missing the boat here. The Walton boys are principal investors in Allied Cycleworks, makers of some of the finest carbon fiber road bike frames in the United States. Clearly this is a partnership between Allied and Wal-Mart. The "Hyper" brand is just a decoy. Scoop these things up while you can. They're a steal.


  28. #28
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    I wonder who will be brave enough to take that steaming pile down a DH run at a bike park for YouTube glory?
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    This is certainly a gateway drug to better bicycle prices. Wal-Mart is really good at taking virtually any consumer product and driving the price down.

    Think about it this way: imagine if that frame had geometry that you really liked. Can you honestly say the frame isn't worth $400? Even if all that remained was the frame, headset, and stem, $400 is a steal. If it didn't have 26" wheels, questionable sizing/geometry, a straight steerer, etc., a $400 carbon fiber bike would be a total game changer for the entire bicycle market. A 3x7 bike is never going to take the market by storm drivetrain wise, but a $400 bike that was a groupset, handlebar, brake, and wheelset away from competing with a $4000+ bike would be a big deal, to me.

    I would not buy or ride this bike, because if there's one thing Wal-Mart gets dead wrong on bicycles, it's frame sizing. Everyone who complains to me about how expensive bicycles are doesn't seem to get it: a bike that doesn't fit isn't worth anything, no matter how cheap or high quality. I explain to them that if they walk into a bike shop, even the lowest priced bicycles will come in a size that is bound to fit them. For most people, the idea that $600 has to come from their pocket to leave with a bike is cost prohibitive, so they don't bother. People who know little about bikes don't seem to make the distinction between wheel size and frame size, either, which has really complicated the true entry-level bikes, which are cheap BSOs that people buy to see if they're into it at all.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    It's an xc bike shaped object. I could limp that thing gingerly around any of the trails I ride without any problems but I like to push myself and there's no way I would give it full gas on a 25mph downhill run on a pos like that. My life is worth more than $399, to me anyway.

    So I could ride it without breaking it but I just wouldn't have much fun.
    OK that answer was exactly what I was looking for. 25 mph downhill. I try not to take bikes like these downhill more than 15 mph.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Teenagers that you don't like very much.

    Actually there is a pretty sad story about this, all jokes aside. Some 8 year old kid in the USA got a Walmart bike for X-Mas, took it down a hill, crashed, and the steel handlebar ripped through his jeans and pierced his leg. He seemed fine after getting back from the hospital, but died a few days later from flesh-eating bacteria that were in the dirt that the steel handlebar bounced off. No handlebar covers on the side grips killed him, go figure.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    This is certainly a gateway drug to better bicycle prices. Wal-Mart is really good at taking virtually any consumer product and driving the price down.
    Never with bikes, good bikes have only gotten more expensive. Department store bikes are better than they used to be but thats only because the cheapest available parts are better then they used to be. Bicycle shaped objects.

    Also just because a frame is made of carbon fiber does not mean it's any good, I couldn't imagine paying $400 for that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodownzero View Post
    This is certainly a gateway drug to better bicycle prices. Wal-Mart is really good at taking virtually any consumer product and driving the price down.

    Think about it this way: imagine if that frame had geometry that you really liked. Can you honestly say the frame isn't worth $400? Even if all that remained was the frame, headset, and stem, $400 is a steal. If it didn't have 26" wheels, questionable sizing/geometry, a straight steerer, etc., a $400 carbon fiber bike would be a total game changer for the entire bicycle market. A 3x7 bike is never going to take the market by storm drivetrain wise, but a $400 bike that was a groupset, handlebar, brake, and wheelset away from competing with a $4000+ bike would be a big deal, to me.

    I would not buy or ride this bike, because if there's one thing Wal-Mart gets dead wrong on bicycles, it's frame sizing. Everyone who complains to me about how expensive bicycles are doesn't seem to get it: a bike that doesn't fit isn't worth anything, no matter how cheap or high quality. I explain to them that if they walk into a bike shop, even the lowest priced bicycles will come in a size that is bound to fit them. For most people, the idea that $600 has to come from their pocket to leave with a bike is cost prohibitive, so they don't bother. People who know little about bikes don't seem to make the distinction between wheel size and frame size, either, which has really complicated the true entry-level bikes, which are cheap BSOs that people buy to see if they're into it at all.

    Wow you said a mouthful, a lot of different concepts to digest.

    I totally agree that you start with the frame and then decide if it's worth buying. You can take a cheap bike, add an air fork, hydraulic brakes, better tires for $450 and voila, you actually have a bike that can ride trails. Will it be the fastest bike? No. Will be be the most nimble bike? No. Can you go downhill 30 mph and take 6-foot jumps? No. But you can still have a blast on the bike doing normal stuff out there. If the frame is good enough, knock yourself out and spend $2K in upgrades, why not, it's your bike. People here fix up old bikes all the time and spend a highly variable amount of cash doing it.

    I know what you mean about frame sizing. I had a $150 Walmart 27.5" bike that had a 20-inch frame. I'm 5'8" and it felt more like riding a small horse than a bike. I had to literally mount and dismount it like a horse. But I still had a blast on it for 6 months before the frame cracked.

    As far as wheel size is concerned, didn't Trek start matching wheel and frame sizes?

    For tire size (which is of course a product of wheel size) I was smitten with the idea of buying a 27.5+ bike. BTW they have $200-300 27.5+ bikes out there now, but as you can imagine, most of them have heavy steel frames and/or rim brakes, so no point in upgrading them IMO. But then I learned about 26+ tires. And I started to think hey wait a minute, I'm 5'8" 145 lbs, my 27.5 standard tire rolls over stuff just fine, why am I wanting a taller and taller tire? I don't need a monster truck bike out there. 26 x 2.8 is on paper 27.4 inches tall, that's plenty of rollover for me. Plenty of traction, and not too tall to hurt handling too much either. A really nice compromise between rollover, traction, handling. The 26" may be dead (it's really not, see Chinese 26" bike post above), but 26+ tires on a 27.5" frame seem really cool for a more casual biker with my height and weight. If you were wondering my current 27.5 has a 17 inch frame and seems to fit me perfectly. I think 26+ tires on it would be very interesting; waiting on the wheelset to come in...
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Never with bikes, good bikes have only gotten more expensive. Department store bikes are better than they used to be but thats only because the cheapest available parts are better then they used to be. Bicycle shaped objects.

    Also just because a frame is made of carbon fiber does not mean it's any good, I couldn't imagine paying $400 for that.

    Um...please correct me if I'm wrong but good bikes have only gotten more expensive because of all the new tech that you now suddenly 'need', like 1x12 instead of 1x11, 200mm travel instead of 180mm, carbon wheelsets, hydraulic brakes that are 2 ounces lighter than their 'inferior' counterparts which are much less money, etc.

    $2000 in more expensive parts lightens the bike 3-5 lbs. That's great but what's considered good has shifted due to the latest and lightest parts in the last 10 years. What was a good bike 10 years ago for $5000 can be had with the same components for $1000-1500 now. I was in the 26" forum several months ago, and some guy said he bought a certain 26" bike brand-new in 2007 for $5500. I looked at the components and I'm thinking, WTF you can buy an equivalent bike now for close to $1000. But that bike
    is 'outdated' now because those components, like 3x10, and the frame's geometry, are out of style now. It doesn't mean that those components suddenly because horrible just because 2x10 came out later. It means that the trendy stuff sells for more than the tried and true established stuff. A $1000 'crap' bike in 2018 would have been a 'good' bike in 1998. JB I don't know if you rode 20 years ago, but if you rode with 'those' same cheap components back then, that Walmart uses now, does that mean your 1990's bike was a BSO by definition?
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    I'm 'unna get me some Snafu tires for me bike. Those look rad.
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    I wonder if those tires help get you into a snafu or out of a snafu. That seems a really important delineation. Going to have to email Wallmart and ask.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    We shouldn't slam this bike but realize who the intended user is. I could easily see a middle aged man with a tank top and backwards hat. Cigarette stuck between his missing teeth and riding the bike path, happier than a pig in... If he spends some of his beer money on this and goes riding with his woman's kids then I think that is great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    JB I don't know if you rode 20 years ago, but if you rode with 'those' same cheap components back then, that Walmart uses now, does that mean your 1990's bike was a BSO by definition?

    No. My first mountain bike was a 1984 Trek and though the technology was archaic the quality was there. Department store "mountain" bikes still often come with freewheel hubs that would not survive 1 ride for me. Also disposable bottom brackets, suspension fork shaped objects that hold the front wheel, etc, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlee View Post
    We shouldn't slam this bike but realize who the intended user is. I could easily see a middle aged man with a tank top and backwards hat. Cigarette stuck between his missing teeth and riding the bike path, happier than a pig in... If he spends some of his beer money on this and goes riding with his woman's kids then I think that is great.
    ^no doubt!
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Never with bikes, .
    I'm not so sure on that. I know a highish end shop that makes the lion share of his margins and sales on kids and bmx bikes. I'd guess a lot of these bikes roll out of the same or similar factories as Wallmart pot metal. I'm far from an economist but that must regulate the cost at some scale. If carbon fiber labor force, skill, and know how ramps up substantially I think it reasonable prices would come down.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    JB I don't know if you rode 20 years ago, but if you rode with 'those' same cheap components back then, that Walmart uses now, does that mean your 1990's bike was a BSO by definition?
    My 1997 VooDoo has much better components than anything bolted onto a Walmart bike. It actually has a functional fork and brakes.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    I wonder if those tires help get you into a snafu or out of a snafu. That seems a really important delineation. Going to have to email Wallmart and ask.
    Maybe both?
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    I'm not so sure on that. I know a highish end shop that makes the lion share of his margins and sales on kids and bmx bikes. I'd guess a lot of these bikes roll out of the same or similar factories as Wallmart pot metal. I'm far from an economist but that must regulate the cost at some scale. If carbon fiber labor force, skill, and know how ramps up substantially I think it reasonable prices would come down.

    It will only lower the bar and cause a proliferation of crappy carbon frames, that's the Malwart effect. Quality products will still cost the same or more.
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    Off topic but I was just in my LBS and I was looking at a new SC Blur. It had a tag on it that said "optional $19.95 convenience package includes kickstand, waterbottle cage and waterbottle". I asked a worker if they had the correct tag on the bike. He said they'd run out of the right tags and ended up just putting those on everything that still needing tagged.
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    My lbs said that Giant will have carbon down to $700cnd within 2 years. That is around $500usd. We talk about how carbon is labour intensive but you can train a child to lay fiber in a mould way easier than to weld aluminum.
    Aluminum frames are also labour intensive. And if heat treated are expensive to make. I really think we are paying a unjustified huge margin for carbon.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlee View Post
    I really think we are paying a unjustified huge margin for carbon.



    It's justified as long as they can get it, but I largely agree.
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    Carbon fiber has been "overpriced" for a while. But its the whole thing of people will pay for the benefits of a good CF design and pay a premium for it. Just like sram 12 speed. Add a cog, make it 4t bigger and gold color. Add a CF cage that costs A few cents more than the alloy cage and boom. $1000 drive train thats insanely finicky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Carbon fiber has been "overpriced" for a while. But its the whole thing of people will pay for the benefits of a good CF design and pay a premium for it. Just like sram 12 speed. Add a cog, make it 4t bigger and gold color. Add a CF cage that costs A few cents more than the alloy cage and boom. $1000 drive train thats insanely finicky.
    What is your personal experience with SRAM Eagle?

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    Multiple demos, people I ride with have it, more than enough to convince me there is no way its worth the price tag. When your at almost every major event of 2 different states worth of XC race series, get a lot.of exposure to it. 11s does just fine, 10s works but 11s better for wide range. You gain "bling", 4 teeth on at least a rather light weight drivetrain. Far from worth the price tag IMHO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Multiple demos, people I ride with have it, more than enough to convince me there is no way its worth the price tag. When your at almost every major event of 2 different states worth of XC race series, get a lot.of exposure to it. 11s does just fine, 10s works but 11s better for wide range. You gain "bling", 4 teeth on at least a rather light weight drivetrain. Far from worth the price tag IMHO.

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    During those demos, what caused you to determine that SRAM Eagle is “insanely finicky”?

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    Very finite adjustment tolerances. 3 out of the 4 bikes I rode I had to adjust slightly early in the ride and much more touchy to adjustments. Even the specialized guys said that was their only complaint is its very touchy adjustments and initial set up has to be dead perfect and maintained there. Basically requires more attention.

    And what to gain, 4t and bling. At literally 4x the cost of 11-46t 11 speed shimano.

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    So how did a thread about a Walmart carbon fiber bike drift into the value of sram eagle?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Very finite adjustment tolerances. 3 out of the 4 bikes I rode I had to adjust slightly early in the ride and much more touchy to adjustments. Even the specialized guys said that was their only complaint is its very touchy adjustments and initial set up has to be dead perfect and maintained there. Basically requires more attention.

    And what to gain, 4t and bling. At literally 4x the cost of 11-46t 11 speed shimano.

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    Actually, riders gain more than 4t, the range is wider - you seem to not understand that Eagle also has a 10t cog. Claiming Eagle is “bling” is funny.

    My experience with Eagle over the past year on tasty chunk in CA/NV/UT is that it hasn’t been finicky at all, let alone “extremely finicky” as you claim based on some demos (adjust slightly = extremely finicky?).

    Compared to the Shimano and SRAM MTB drivetrains that I’ve owned over the years (3x7, 3x8, 3x9, 2x9, 2x10), Eagle has been set-and-forget, hassle-free and requires less attention than all of my other drive trains did, while offering the same range as the 2x10 that it replaced.

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    Sram 11s has a 10t as well. Sram 11s uses XD driver and same RD design. Pretty much same RDs.

    So you gain 4 teeth.

    And gold cogs

    Even the RD is just a blingy 11s RD with a possibly a slight tweak to the cage geo if anything.

    To each their own, but having talked with guys that have to deal with it for a living and all the very finite adjustments (hell you have to buy a special tool to set up correctly), I personally dont see the point. To each their own, but getting upset over someone pointing out the truth accomplishes nothing. Truth is you paid an insane amount to gain 4t on the big cog and have the latest and "greatest" drivetrain. Its what you enjoy doing and can afford it, cool, but lets be real. Its not life changing overall.

    Truly 1x systems are a downgrade anyway. 1x has been around since bikes have had chains. But tech has evolved where the simplicity of 1x but at the range of old 3x or more modern 2x at less weight can be done now. Eagle 12s is just what it took to get a version of 1x that works for you. A premium that had to be paid to get what was desired.


    And I just realized this is the walmart carbon fiber thread, you literally came here to create a debate and pull off topic (which then I followed not realizing what thread this was)

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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Sram 11s has a 10t as well. Sram 11s uses XD driver and same RD design. Pretty much same RDs.

    So you gain 4 teeth.

    And gold cogs

    Even the RD is just a blingy 11s RD with a possibly a slight tweak to the cage geo if anything.

    To each their own, but having talked with guys that have to deal with it for a living and all the very finite adjustments (hell you have to buy a special tool to set up correctly), I personally dont see the point. To each their own, but getting upset over someone pointing out the truth accomplishes nothing. Truth is you paid an insane amount to gain 4t on the big cog and have the latest and "greatest" drivetrain. Its what you enjoy doing and can afford it, cool, but lets be real. Its not life changing overall.
    Its very odd that you imagine that I am getting upset, when I’m merely chuckling while pointing out how silly your unsupportable “insanely finicky” claim is.

    More chuckling:

    - a special tool is not needed to set up an Eagle system - that’s funny. It’s easy to adjust the B gap just like any other derailleur. Been there, done that.

    - my Eagle cogs arent gold, although you keep mentioning the color disparagingly - do titanium nitride coatings bother you for some reason?

    - who has claimed that a drivetrain choice is life changing? I must have missed their post.

    - the additional 4 teeth allow folks to run larger chain rings (higher top end) while maintaining a very low climbing/bailout gear. Eagle has a wider range silly. That’s the point that you seem to have missed.

    p.s. claiming that folks riding Eagle paid “an insane amount” disregards the fact that disposable income levels vary greatly among riders. What seems like “an insane amount” to some folks, you in this case, is negligible to others. That’s the actual truth.

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    Hey, you want to believe that more power to you, I dont judge. You worked for your money and spent it on what you wanted, kind of the point isnt it?

    Simple matter is CF is overpriced unless high end brands. But at least there is real engineering to it. Nothing into 12s over 11s. Now back when 11s came out, I would have totally agreed with you.

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    Walmart is so big that they often negotiate lower manufacturing standards from their suppliers to decrease prices, even withing the same brand. They will do this with bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Sram 11s has a 10t as well. Sram 11s uses XD driver and same RD design. Pretty much same RDs.

    So you gain 4 teeth.

    And gold cogs

    Even the RD is just a blingy 11s RD with a possibly a slight tweak to the cage geo if anything.

    To each their own, but having talked with guys that have to deal with it for a living and all the very finite adjustments (hell you have to buy a special tool to set up correctly), I personally dont see the point. To each their own, but getting upset over someone pointing out the truth accomplishes nothing. Truth is you paid an insane amount to gain 4t on the big cog and have the latest and "greatest" drivetrain. Its what you enjoy doing and can afford it, cool, but lets be real. Its not life changing overall.

    Truly 1x systems are a downgrade anyway. 1x has been around since bikes have had chains. But tech has evolved where the simplicity of 1x but at the range of old 3x or more modern 2x at less weight can be done now. Eagle 12s is just what it took to get a version of 1x that works for you. A premium that had to be paid to get what was desired.


    And I just realized this is the walmart carbon fiber thread, you literally came here to create a debate and pull off topic (which then I followed not realizing what thread this was)

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    I like the SRAM Eagle a lot. The gear range is fantastic and I can creep up incredibly steep pitches in the low gear and still have some speed at the high end. And it has shifted flawlessly even in the very muddy last couple of months.

    Since mountain biking is a hobby, I don't mind spending money on it. Alimony, taxes, fees...these are things I am forced to pay. I never get bent out of shape having to spend money for a new piece of gear because, while the main focus should be riding, new components and technology are part of the fun. If I can't afford it I just tool along happily with what I can.

    People are so friggin' grim about the bicycle industry. It's a luxury industry making and selling advanced toys that we don't actually need. They aren't ripping us off because, in the end, we aren't forced to buy anything.

  59. #59
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    It is kind of sad that we spend so much on our bikes for fun whereas I sometimes see people on bikes as their only form of transportation to get to their job and they are on the really crappy, poor performing mart bikes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Big box stores have always specialized in selling bicycle shaped objects, designers concentrate on making them appear the same as a "Specialized" or whatever to the untrained eye from 10 feet away.

    I agree this one is a particularly bad value because they just slapped extra cheap parts on what is undoubtedly a horrible frame that happens to be carbon fiber, presumably anyway. All the potential buyer will see is "carbon fiber" and think "oh yeah!"
    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikej View Post
    They made it 26" because they are considered "toys" and not bikes. None of these are intended to be ridden off road. Most have warning stickers on them that indicate that they are meant for the paved paths.

    And people buying these death machines at Walmart don't know what bikes are, so they buy based on price.
    I was actually going to start a separate Wal-Mart bike thread, but I figured I couldn't derail this one...

    I stopped to get print cartridges (that's a separate, more banal story). Of course, I must circle through the bike dept. on my way to the register, just because.

    I stalled a bit to eavesdrop on a potential sale.

    The Wal-Mart employee was talking up the 4 bikes on display on the end cap of the aisle pretty well (doing his job), but the customer's sole focus was how much air was in the tires.
    "See, this one's no good." (squeezing tire) "I don't want that one."
    She continued checking tires on the various copies of the same model bike until she was satisfied.

    If the employee was on the ball, he could've sold a floor pump, I imagine. ...and maybe a tire gauge.

    But if that's the bar you need to get over to sell a bike at Wally World (tires that hold air), I have to think that the bottom is really way down there.


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    disclaimer: I am, in fact, a periodic consumer of cheap bikes and BSO's. The reality is that they should not be used the same as a "real" bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post
    I stalled a bit to eavesdrop on a potential sale.

    The Wal-Mart employee was talking up the 4 bikes on display on the end cap of the aisle pretty well (doing his job), but the customer's sole focus was how much air was in the tires.
    "See, this one's no good." (squeezing tire) "I don't want that one."
    She continued checking tires on the various copies of the same model bike until she was satisfied.
    Wow. Just wow. My faith in humanity has just reached an all-time low. People can be really, really dense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    It is kind of sad that we spend so much on our bikes for fun whereas I sometimes see people on bikes as their only form of transportation to get to their job and they are on the really crappy, poor performing mart bikes.
    I know! My area at night is full of commuters, from restaurants and such, most of them are on Magnas or Huffys and they never have lights, so they use the sidewalk often.

    They sure don't seem to complaint much or care, for them is really a tool.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post

    I'm by no means a brand boy, but how safe could that bike be?

    Can't wait for the videos of people bombing down a trail on it to test it.
    If that thing snapped easily and hurt people, Walmart would get sued to oblivion. More than anything, I would expect it to be overly built.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    If that thing snapped easily and hurt people, Walmart would get sued to oblivion. More than anything, I would expect it to be overly built.
    Maybe not if you take it to a real trail. Don't they have a sticker about that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Wow. Just wow. My faith in humanity has just reached an all-time low. People can be really, really dense.
    Reminds me of an old guy I know who cycles a few miles every day to keep fit. Anything goes wrong with his bike, anything at all, and he takes it to our local Halfords. They tell him it can't be fixed and sell him a new bike! I've been in his garage, it's astonishing. He has a pile of bikes with slight faults.

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    its too bad they ruined it with unupgradeable crap, would have been nice buying one on Craigslist for $100 and then putting real components on it to make a commuter

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    Just wait for the 29er with a tapered headtube, it's inevitable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    No. My first mountain bike was a 1984 Trek and though the technology was archaic the quality was there. Department store "mountain" bikes still often come with freewheel hubs that would not survive 1 ride for me. Also disposable bottom brackets, suspension fork shaped objects that hold the front wheel, etc, etc.
    It's true. I don't even understand why they try to put suspension on these cheap bikes, rigid and a 2.4 to 2.5 front tire would be better and save a lot of weight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    My 1997 VooDoo has much better components than anything bolted onto a Walmart bike. It actually has a functional fork and brakes.
    The brakes are the worst. I see in the beginner's corner people trying to fix up their $300 bike, and some veterans are saying get an air fork, convert to 1x, etc.

    Whoa, hold up gentlemen. What about brakes and tire upgrades for a beginner? Did they forget those??? Don't call Walmart bikes a death machine and then not mention they need a brake and tire upgrade for someone already riding one. That's assisted suicide. The only time I ever went over the bars bad was 100% due to horrible stock tires. After you buy better tires and get some sort of hydraulic brake setup, the bike is actually rideable. Not for what YOU guys are doing, it's rideable for more casual stuff like 12 mph downhill, tiny jumps, etc. It's at least entry level and won't kill someone doing normal beginner stuff. Tires and brakes first before anything else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    Maybe not if you take it to a real trail. Don't they have a sticker about that?
    I don't blame Walmart, and lower-end Suntour stuff, and other companies for putting disclaimers on their parts for liability and to avoid being sued when a biker is hurt riding.

    And it's not about taking it to a real trail or not, it's about how fast you ride down the trail and if you intend on taking jumps; that's what's going to destroy the cheap bike, not just taking it down a real trail slowly and carefully, like at 6 mph. That sounds boring to someone that has a good bike but it's happening right now with cheap bikes on thousands of trails out there. And yes there are stickers saying don't off road this part, even if it's on a "Mountain Bike". Some people have common sense on the trail and some don't. The ones that don't and buy a cheap bike, well, I feel bad if they get hurt, but they made a dumb decision going fast down a hill on a cheap bike with terrible brakes and tires. Just like how a teenager gets the keys to a car and promptly crashes the car. No experience, no proper judgement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleas View Post
    I stalled a bit to eavesdrop on a potential sale.

    The Wal-Mart employee was talking up the 4 bikes on display on the end cap of the aisle pretty well (doing his job), but the customer's sole focus was how much air was in the tires.
    "See, this one's no good." (squeezing tire) "I don't want that one."
    She continued checking tires on the various copies of the same model bike until she was satisfied.


    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Wow. Just wow. My faith in humanity has just reached an all-time low. People can be really, really dense.

    LOL. Don't worry about this. Worry about that same lady leaving Walmart, getting in to her huge SUV, and texting all the way home in traffic. That's the humanity you need to worry about. You'll never see her on the trail, you'll just see her plow into your car (or your road bike) while she was texting.

    I've also eavesdropped on a dude buying one of two bikes at Walmart. One was better than the other but neither he or the salesman knew that. I briefly tried to explain why one bike was better (relatively speaking) and they just looked at me the way a cow looks when it's trying to sleep standing up. No response at all. They looked like I just tried to explain quantum physics to them. I walked away, hey, I tried.
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    I understand why so many of you are concerned (and rightfully so) about the component specs, but honestly, even with "good" components, I wouldn't trust it on a trail.

    All carbon manufacturing is not equal. Having no idea of the processes employed laying up and forming that frame, there is no way in hell I would trust it. I've seen manufactured items from China with voids under the surface finish that passed QA inspection because they "looked" okay. The concept of fitness for intended use was never considered. It was all about the fact that it looked like it was supposed to.

    I had a cast iron item that was painted. I scraped the paint off in one area in order to be able to attach an effective ground to it. As I scraped the paint off, a white powder started to come out. There had been a sizable casting void that was filled with gypsum, smoothed and painted. It was known to be flawed, so in order to pass QA, the production line diverted the cast piece to a repair area. Once it was "fixed", it was painted, inspected and shipped to unsuspecting users around the world.

    The point is, manufacturing concepts in China still lag behind most areas of the world. It all has to do with the communist takeover and purge that happened 70 years ago. They will get there (led mostly by US manufacturing), but I wouldn't trust a non name brand item, just yet.
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    Box store bikes miss a real opportunity for a reasonable quality bike with no frills that can reliably get you from A to B.

    A. Give it reasonable quality control and mfg standards so it can be durable/reliable (like a frame that might be able to hold up to basic xc riding)
    B. Mfg it to at least some halfway recent standards - regular BSA BB shell, minimum 135/100 QR/bolt on hub spacing, straight 44mm dia head tube, suspension-corrected geo for possible upgrades
    C. Give it a couple frame sizes at least. S, M, L or maybe even S and L
    D. Give it dead simple parts - fairly low singlespeed gearing for beginners (but a derailleur hanger for possible upgrades), coaster brake (but brake mounts for possible upgrades)

    Can offer different price points for some slight upgrades on the same platform. Maybe a hi-ten steel for the $100 price point, alu or cromoly for upgrade options, 1x7 or 3x7 shifty bits, suspension, whatever. I justify SS for this kind of bike because most people who buy these things don't actually shift while riding. They put it in one gear and ride it that way until it doesn't work anymore. they don't care when the suspension seizes up. I have seen so many where the brake pads are flat gone, or don't even touch the rim. think simple.

    The key to bringing the cost down is selling lots of them. If there were as many bicycles in each household as there were cars (or more, really, when you count kids and others who can't/don't drive, and enthusiasts who own multiple bikes), then we'd be talking about ways to drive mfg costs down.

    Shit like this CF trash heap doesn't help anyone except the companies that make BSO's turn a short-term profit.

    But no, we get cynical, deceptive marketing on BSO's because people let themselves be fooled by it.

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    You guys forget that most of these bikes are only going to be used about 4 times, if my neighborhood is a place to judge from. The kids in my area never get outside. Too busy with the x-box.

    Although I did see a ~4 year old, with a full face helmet on, the other day on a stretch of smooth double track yelling "you want to race?" as I went the other way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Box store bikes miss a real opportunity for a reasonable quality bike with no frills that can reliably get you from A to B.

    A. Give it reasonable quality control and mfg standards so it can be durable/reliable (like a frame that might be able to hold up to basic xc riding)
    B. Mfg it to at least some halfway recent standards - regular BSA BB shell, minimum 135/100 QR/bolt on hub spacing, straight 44mm dia head tube, suspension-corrected geo for possible upgrades
    C. Give it a couple frame sizes at least. S, M, L or maybe even S and L
    D. Give it dead simple parts - fairly low singlespeed gearing for beginners (but a derailleur hanger for possible upgrades), coaster brake (but brake mounts for possible upgrades)

    Can offer different price points for some slight upgrades on the same platform. Maybe a hi-ten steel for the $100 price point, alu or cromoly for upgrade options, 1x7 or 3x7 shifty bits, suspension, whatever. I justify SS for this kind of bike because most people who buy these things don't actually shift while riding. They put it in one gear and ride it that way until it doesn't work anymore. they don't care when the suspension seizes up. I have seen so many where the brake pads are flat gone, or don't even touch the rim. think simple.

    The key to bringing the cost down is selling lots of them. If there were as many bicycles in each household as there were cars (or more, really, when you count kids and others who can't/don't drive, and enthusiasts who own multiple bikes), then we'd be talking about ways to drive mfg costs down.

    Shit like this CF trash heap doesn't help anyone except the companies that make BSO's turn a short-term profit.

    But no, we get cynical, deceptive marketing on BSO's because people let themselves be fooled by it.
    Agreed, when these discussions come up I always think "why can't they just make a basic single speed for cheap?" That's all a lot of people need for basic transportation and the crappy derailleurs and heavy, wasteful suspension does nothing really but drive the price up and the lifespan and ride-ability down. But marketing has to have their "features" to sell.

    And I think they do sell more bikes annually in the US than they do cars, if you include bsos. I'm sure many of us help those figures as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tribble Me View Post
    You guys forget that most of these bikes are only going to be used about 4 times, if my neighborhood is a place to judge from. The kids in my area never get outside. Too busy with the x-box.

    Although I did see a ~4 year old, with a full face helmet on, the other day on a stretch of smooth double track yelling "you want to race?" as I went the other way.
    Yay, kid!

    One of my favorite stories was of a coworkers son who one day finally got his training wheels off. He went down the sidewalk, turned around and rode back and told his dad, "I want a ramp".
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  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tribble Me View Post
    You guys forget that most of these bikes are only going to be used about 4 times,

    Department store bikes are designed with this in mind. People buy them and after 2 or 3 rides something breaks, both tires go flat and they decide that it really isn't that much fun after all. The bike then spends the rest of it's life taking up space in the corner of a garage.


    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Agreed, when these discussions come up I always think "why can't they just make a basic single speed for cheap?"
    It wouldn't sell, people buy them because it looks basically like a $2000 Trek to their eyes. The bicycle shaped object model works!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tribble Me View Post
    You guys forget that most of these bikes are only going to be used about 4 times, if my neighborhood is a place to judge from. The kids in my area never get outside. Too busy with the x-box.

    Although I did see a ~4 year old, with a full face helmet on, the other day on a stretch of smooth double track yelling "you want to race?" as I went the other way.
    So did you want to race, or what?

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Department store bikes are designed with this in mind. People buy them and after 2 or 3 rides something breaks, both tires go flat and they decide that it really isn't that much fun after all. The bike then spends the rest of it's life taking up space in the corner of a garage.




    It wouldn't sell, people buy them because it looks basically like a $2000 Trek to their eyes. The bicycle shaped object model works!
    Nailed it!
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  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Department store bikes are designed with this in mind. People buy them and after 2 or 3 rides something breaks, both tires go flat and they decide that it really isn't that much fun after all. The bike then spends the rest of it's life taking up space in the corner of a garage.




    It wouldn't sell, people buy them because it looks basically like a $2000 Trek to their eyes. The bicycle shaped object model works!
    That's what's horrible about the whole scenario.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    It is kind of sad that we spend so much on our bikes for fun whereas I sometimes see people on bikes as their only form of transportation to get to their job and they are on the really crappy, poor performing mart bikes.
    Why is it sad? I really like bicycles. It's a hobby as well as a sport. I don't look down at anybody on any bike...except that i hate seeing bikes chained to rack out in the snow where they remain for the whole winter.

  83. #83
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    But what would happen if Walmart did start selling better quaity bikes at low prices?

    I imagine that a lot of smaller LBS would disappear and others would only survive selling to the high end of the market. Would bike companies then be forced to limit development or only offer cheaper low end bikes to compete with these megastores?

    A similar trend has happened in the UK with electrical white goods and electronics - smaller independant retailers closing while out of town stores selling cheaper but possibly lower quality but well marketed products flourish.

    But I'm no economist so happy to be corrected
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    Why is it sad? I really like bicycles. It's a hobby as well as a sport. I don't look down at anybody on any bike...except that i hate seeing bikes chained to rack out in the snow where they remain for the whole winter.
    Best you keep away from the Sad Bikes thread to avoid spoiling your day
    What a perfect waste of time

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    Why is it sad? I really like bicycles. It's a hobby as well as a sport. I don't look down at anybody on any bike...except that i hate seeing bikes chained to rack out in the snow where they remain for the whole winter.
    It's sad because someone who has an actual need for a bicycle ends up with the worst bike. I'm not saying they need a high end bike, just something built for basic function rather than marketing.
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  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    It's sad because someone who has an actual need for a bicycle ends up with the worst bike.
    The kind of people whop buy these bikes will find them no matter where they are. Some people are just hard to help. You know, stupid people? I.Q. of potato salad?

    I know people like that. you try and give them advice, help them buy good stuff, but they'll go away and come up with some kind of retarded reasoning which compels them to buy shite. They drive you bonkers! And they'll do it time and time again.

    Yes, these bikes are rubbish and yes, it would be nice if people demanded better options but nothing can be done. Walmart know their audience and they know how thick they are. I dislike the fact that they simply exploit them rather than trying to educate them but you can't fix everyone anyway.

  87. #87
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    I think most Walmart bike sales are to children. You do see service workers using a steel full suspension to get to work but for the most part they are for kids and teenagers. I was lucky enough to get bike shop bikes after about age 12. I did buy my 6 year old a 300 dollar trek, he’s big strong and fit for 6 but he’s really rough on the thing!

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Box store bikes miss a real opportunity for a reasonable quality bike with no frills that can reliably get you from A to B.

    A. Give it reasonable quality control and mfg standards so it can be durable/reliable (like a frame that might be able to hold up to basic xc riding)
    B. Mfg it to at least some halfway recent standards - regular BSA BB shell, minimum 135/100 QR/bolt on hub spacing, straight 44mm dia head tube, suspension-corrected geo for possible upgrades
    C. Give it a couple frame sizes at least. S, M, L or maybe even S and L
    D. Give it dead simple parts - fairly low singlespeed gearing for beginners (but a derailleur hanger for possible upgrades), coaster brake (but brake mounts for possible upgrades)

    Can offer different price points for some slight upgrades on the same platform. Maybe a hi-ten steel for the $100 price point, alu or cromoly for upgrade options, 1x7 or 3x7 shifty bits, suspension, whatever. I justify SS for this kind of bike because most people who buy these things don't actually shift while riding. They put it in one gear and ride it that way until it doesn't work anymore. they don't care when the suspension seizes up. I have seen so many where the brake pads are flat gone, or don't even touch the rim. think simple.

    The key to bringing the cost down is selling lots of them. If there were as many bicycles in each household as there were cars (or more, really, when you count kids and others who can't/don't drive, and enthusiasts who own multiple bikes), then we'd be talking about ways to drive mfg costs down.

    Shit like this CF trash heap doesn't help anyone except the companies that make BSO's turn a short-term profit.

    But no, we get cynical, deceptive marketing on BSO's because people let themselves be fooled by it.

    Right concept, wrong details. You know 100 times more than me about mountain biking, but you are not actually purchasing these bikes. It's like Marie Antoinette specifying what type of cake the poor masses should eat. And while I find this thread humorous, you guys act like these bikes are for 8 year-olds with a 10 minute attention span. I've been riding them for years, and while I personally may have the mentality of an 8-year old, adults actually ride these bikes on trails. Not just sidewalks, not just fireroads, actual trails. Yes, you can throw up out of disgust, now that you have learned the truth. Some of these bikes suck really bad, some are not as bad as you think.

    I know what I would like out of a sub-$1000 bike. It's not a singlespeed. It's funny how the more experienced riders skip the basics about what a cheap bike should have (see below). The only thing above that I agree with is suspension; instead of singlespeed they could have either a rigid fork or a cheap 80-100mm coil fork. They could also put on a wider front tire, like a 2.35, 2.40, or 2.50 if it's rigid to provide some cushion. And it's not that much more $$$ to have a 3x8 cassette-based drivetrain than a 3x7 freewheel. The replacement fixed hub wheel I got was $52; the 11-32t freewheel was $33. $85 total. An Alex 23mm disk-comp and sealed bearing 8-10 speed rear wheel is only $75. 8-speed cassette $17. Total $92. SEVEN DOLLARS MORE for a cassette-based system. Last but not least, hydraulic brakes start at $50-70 for a complete pre-bled set front/rear.

    Preferred entry-level BSO:
    aluminum frame; whole bike cannot weigh more than 35 lbs total with pedals $variable
    tire size (height) doesn't really matter at this level $60-100
    tire width should be at least 2.1 inches
    hardtail; fork can either be rigid or cheap coil 80-100mm $40-70
    3x8 cassette-based drivetrain (let's not get too cute at this bike level) $variable
    Wheelset around $125-155 or in-home one for cheaper
    Shimano M-355 Hydraulic Brake system $70
    last but not least, $35 for a separate 3x8 speed shifter system, since the original one has shifters/brakes integrated and you have to separate that for the hydraulic brake shifters

    Now let's see what price range that's in: $400-700. It's as low a price range as the carbon fiber bike that is in this thread. Weight is around the same as the OP's bike. Drivetrain is better due to cassette system. Fork probably the same (air fork plus LBS labor can be as low as a $200 upgrade). Tires and brakes better. The preferred BSO above CAN BE DONE and it is being done, by many manufacturers, including SE, Giant, Motobecane, Diamondback, and Raleigh.

    My $517 Amazon bike has around 1200 miles on it now, a few flat tires, chain broke twice, that's it. Besides the chain, NOTHING BROKE ON THE BIKE in 1200 miles of trail riding (let's say 900 miles of fire road/double track and 300 miles of actual singletrack). Now, this is key: I'm not doing 6-foot jumps and going downhill 30 mph with this bike. But I'm doing the same trails all of you are doing, at least the ones off a paid course, in the suburbs or wilderness. Out of the 40 or so trails I've done so far, exactly 5 have been too difficult, the other 35 or so are all doable with a bike of this level at a moderate speed.

    Bottom line, if you define 'real' mountain biking as bombing down hills 25+ mph and taking jumps over 4 feet high, then no a $400-700 bike is not a mountain bike. I liken this to a sports car / race car track driver saying "This car A will survive this track, this car B will fall apart on this track, etc.". They are right, they know which cars will survive a 150 mph track and which will fall apart. But all of the tested cars will do just fine on the street, and the street in this case is mountain biking under 15 mph downhill and jumps less than 2 feet high. If that's not mountain biking to you, fine, that's your definition. I'm fine with that. Call moderate downhill at 8-15 mph 'hill' biking or recreational biking or whatever term you want to use. But don't say the bike above cannot do a real trail; it can and does, and does not fall apart. It just cannot do it maniacally like the $3000+ bikes can. Two levels of downhill, slower and faster. I prefer slower no matter how much is in my wallet and what budget I have for a bike. So I'm good with a BSO, much to the disappointment of many on here...
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    But I'm doing the same trails all of you are doing, at least the ones off a paid course, in the suburbs or wilderness.
    No, if your claims above are to be believed, you're not doing the same trails.

  90. #90
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    4 to 7 hundred for an entry level BSO? Just buy used.
    Of all the paths you take in life, make sure that most of them are dirt.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Right concept, wrong details.
    Maybe I need to reiterate this point. You missed the ENTIRE point I made. I have no problems with what you describe for the budget you describe. But box store BSO's start below $100, and that's the target I was trying to hit with my spec list. Make the frame the same basic platform as your $400-$700 trail-worthy BSO and you hit some nice economies of scale, your $100 BSO could also be trail-worthy.

    Fact is, most people DO treat bikes in this price range as toys, and a $400-$700 bike is even out of a lot of people's league. Even if you're talking about something they're going to use as basic transportation and not recreation (I see WAY MORE BSO's being used this way than on singletrack. Honestly, I've only seen a handful of BSO's on actual mtb trails in my nearly 2 decades of riding mtb. lots of them on paved greenway paths and neighborhood streets, but not on dirt).

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    Fact is, most people DO treat bikes in this price range as toys.... I've only seen a handful of BSO's on actual mtb trails... lots of them on paved greenway paths and neighborhood streets, but not on dirt).
    I agree, you do not see these bikes on trails. The most common plain vanilla trail bike is an entry-level Trek, those are really popular for some reason. Kids might be on those, mum's on an old quill rigid while dad has an enduro that's worth more than the car but no, you rarely see boat anchors on trails.

    They usually get ridden...nowhere. The life of a typical box bike goes something like this.

    Fred wants a bike to see if he likes cycling/get out with the kids/lose the belly (delete as appropriate) but he doesn't want to spend too much in case it doesn't work out. Enter, box bike, stage left.

    Fred goes out on the bike, probably not put together properly, seat too low, jeans on. Isn't as much fun as he imagined. Tries it again the next week, belly is still there. Just as he's thinking 'this is not working' the bike gets a puncture/chain falls off/cat pees on it. This cycling malarkey is shite! So the bike gathers dust at the back of the garage, beside the cheap golf clubs and exercise machine, while Fred watches TV and drinks cheap beer in blissful ignorance of the heart attack he's going to have next week.

    And so ends the pathetic life of the box bike.

    And Fred...

  93. #93
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    I've never seen any of these bikes on my local trails, which are not that advanced, maybe in the bike path around the lake. I do see a lot vintage mountain bikes, and some entry level bikes, plenty of 26'' etc, but not wally world bikes.
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  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    I've never seen any of these bikes on my local trails, which are not that advanced, maybe in the bike path around the lake. I do see a lot vintage mountain bikes, and some entry level bikes, plenty of 26'' etc, but not wally world bikes.
    yup. lots of vintage rigid treks and whatnot. BSO's are exceedingly rare.

    When I lived in TX, I rode occasionally with a guy who had one. He'd picked up some entry level components to install on it over the years, which helped some. but invariably, there was some mechanical failure on every ride he did that had him carrying a pretty substantial tool kit. he stopped riding the trails, I assume because the frequent trailside maintenance frustrated him. He mostly rode to work, and with his kids on it. He got more use out of a box bike than I've seen anyone else get, honestly.

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    There are TONS of full sus Wallfart bikes around Portland, Eugene etc. 99 times out of 100 the person riding it looks like they had a rough go.

    While certainly not pc it would be interesting to see a demographic study of who fills Wal-Mart's coffers. My old man shops there. He's a staunch Republican, hates Chinese goods, hates welfare, etc., yet primarily shops at Wal-Mart because it's cheap. I'm going to step out on a limb and wager he's a fairly typical patron except for he's fit.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WHALENARD View Post
    While certainly not pc it would be interesting to see a demographic study of who fills Wal-Mart's coffers.
    People Of Walmart - Funny Pictures of People Shopping at Walmart : People Of Walmart

    *note,
    not a scientific study

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    I agree, you do not see these bikes on trails...
    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    I've never seen any of these bikes on my local trails...
    I've seen a couple on the trails around here. They were discarded along the side where they lay broken until the trail crew dragged them to the dumpster.

  98. #98
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    I had a friend who wanted to get into mountain biking with his grandson. i politely explained the two bike industries thing. He bought them both *mart bikes. A little while later, he told me I was right and he went and bought LBS bikes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    It's sad because someone who has an actual need for a bicycle ends up with the worst bike. I'm not saying they need a high end bike, just something built for basic function rather than marketing.
    Not around here. I see some pretty serious commuters. Everything from purpose built commuter bikes, a lot of classy old ten speeds, usually a size or two large to get the bars up and plenty of retro mountain bikes.

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    My store still has the same carbon bike in stock, not exactly flying off the shelves... maybe when summer is in full swing.

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