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Thread: Tour De France

  1. #26
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    I like watching it, although I have to DVR it and speed through some parts (too slow to watch live). Beautiful scenery, and the sprint finishes are more exciting than I would have thought.
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  2. #27
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    Love The Tour. I actually thought it was more exciting when they were all doping. The feats of endurance and strength were fantastic. Now it's obvious why. There will never again be those back to back days of constant attacking in the mountains. It's just not humanly possible.

    That being said the race should be run clean.

  3. #28
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    Use to watch some, now just cheaters and dopers. Will not watch again. I would rather pedal my own bike on some dirt.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitmenOnlyInc View Post
    I used to really enjoy it when lance was cheating his way to all his wins. I've been disgusted in recent years by the doping scandals and what not.

    I may have to give it another shot this year. I am still amazed at what is needed to complete such a race much less win it. It puts my rides in perspective.
    Lance was cheating his way to wins against all of the other cheaters. I guess the guy in 23rd place might have been clean(ish).
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan_speeder View Post
    Lance was cheating his way to wins against all of the other cheaters. I guess the guy in 23rd place might have been clean(ish).
    LA was an anomaly PED's or not. His talents were beyond other cyclist but once the PED's were introduced he was super human and simply crushed all comers.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    LA was an anomaly PED's or not. His talents were beyond other cyclist but once the PED's were introduced he was super human and simply crushed all comers.
    Do you mean in his first TdF in 1993 when he won a stage but blew so badly in the process that he couldn't finish the race while sitting in 97th place? Or 1995, when he managed to finally finish a TdF after a few tries, ending up in 36th place?

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip View Post
    Do you mean in his first TdF in 1993 when he won a stage but blew so badly in the process that he couldn't finish the race while sitting in 97th place? Or 1995, when he managed to finally finish a TdF after a few tries, ending up in 36th place?
    No. After he lost 20% of his mass, but retained most of his strength.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenrats View Post
    Love The Tour. I actually thought it was more exciting when they were all doping. The feats of endurance and strength were fantastic. Now it's obvious why. There will never again be those back to back days of constant attacking in the mountains. It's just not humanly possible.

    That being said the race should be run clean.
    Last year's tour had a lot of attacks and challenges on the mountain stages. If anything, I think it has gotten more competitive in the last few years. I think they have got to do something to cut down on how many cars and motorcycles are riding with the cyclists. It has gotten ridiculous. I get the whole mechanical support angle but guys are getting medical treatment while they're on their bikes riding so they don't lose much time. I think if they cut back how much in race coaching and communication is allowed, we'd see a lot more real racing.
    Are you really sure about that?

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip View Post
    Do you mean in his first TdF in 1993 when he won a stage but blew so badly in the process that he couldn't finish the race while sitting in 97th place? Or 1995, when he managed to finally finish a TdF after a few tries, ending up in 36th place?
    no I don't mean and if I did I would have stated such thank you though. As juan points out LA was a work in progress much like ALL pro riders so once he was able to build upon his strength it was plain to see how dominant he would become, that's what I mean.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    no I don't mean and if I did I would have stated such thank you though. As juan points out LA was a work in progress much like ALL pro riders so once he was able to build upon his strength it was plain to see how dominant he would become, that's what I mean.
    If you mean it was plain to see that before he went on the full program, he displayed none of the talent for performing well in grand tours that most other dominant GT riders had done at younger ages previously, and then leapfrogged everyone after he went whole hog with the doping, then I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by juan_speeder View Post
    No. After he lost 20% of his mass, but retained most of his strength.
    The 20% loss of mass was wildly overstated, culled straight from Armstrong's various biographies which have since been exposed as containing huge amounts of fictional and untruthful information. His strength went way, way up after jumping totally into the deep end of the dopers' pool also. On flat courses, time trial performance is not a function of weight, and he went from nowhere as a TT performer on a global scale, to crushing all comers. Massive amounts of PEDs will do that. His major genetic talent was having a low natural haematocrit (HCT) level, so that he got a much bigger boost on EPO then other riders who were naturally more gifted from a genetic standpoint.

    Riders were all trying to dope up to the magic arbitrary 50% HCT level allowed, so that a rider like Armstrong who started out around 40 would get launched right past another rider who was naturally at 48 for example, with a much bigger % increase in performance. Consequently, the deck of results got all shuffled under PEDs, and the finishing order between riders completely skewed comparing how they all finished doped up, compared to how they might have placed riding clean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSLKauai View Post
    Last year's tour had a lot of attacks and challenges on the mountain stages. If anything, I think it has gotten more competitive in the last few years. I think they have got to do something to cut down on how many cars and motorcycles are riding with the cyclists. It has gotten ridiculous. I get the whole mechanical support angle but guys are getting medical treatment while they're on their bikes riding so they don't lose much time. I think if they cut back how much in race coaching and communication is allowed, we'd see a lot more real racing.
    There were no way as many crazy attacks last year as there were in the early 2000's with Beloki and Ullrich and Vinokorov and Armstrong going at it. It was relentless and it was day after day. If you think that then you need to watch some of those years again.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    LA was an anomaly PED's or not. His talents were beyond other cyclist but once the PED's were introduced he was super human and simply crushed all comers.
    Besides taking PED's Armstrong is a lying, vindictive, evil, reptilian brained psychopath. There has never been a more determined pathological liar in the history of humanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenrats View Post
    Besides taking PED's Armstrong is a lying, vindictive, evil, reptilian brained psychopath. There has never been a more determined pathological liar in the history of humanity.
    What made LA particularly mean and destructive was his relentless campaign to destroy anyone that publicly suspected or stated he was doping. Instead of ignoring them, he would put his attorneys on the task of DESTROYING THEM and do everything he could to blackball them from the industry. He was a human wrecking ball knowing all along that they were telling the truth and he was the one lying. He adopted the technique of the best defense is a good offense and took it to the limit.
    Are you really sure about that?

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSLKauai View Post
    What made LA particularly mean and destructive was his relentless campaign to destroy anyone that publicly suspected or stated he was doping. Instead of ignoring them, he would put his attorneys on the task of DESTROYING THEM and do everything he could to blackball them from the industry. He was a human wrecking ball knowing all along that they were telling the truth and he was the one lying. He adopted the technique of the best defense is a good offense and took it to the limit.
    All true. There has never been a more relentless liar. He's STILL lying!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenrats View Post
    All true. There has never been a more relentless liar. He's STILL lying!
    I agree with you here. He's trying to protect his money and assets now. At some point, I"m convinced his lying is going to put him in jail. He's gonna piss off a judge at some point and get slammed.
    Are you really sure about that?

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by nvphatty View Post
    LA was an anomaly PED's or not. His talents were beyond other cyclist but once the PED's were introduced he was super human and simply crushed all comers.
    I don't really think that's true as his performance in the TDF prior to his first victory which was on PED's was not really that remarkable. I think Lemond had Lance pretty accurately summed up -- Maybe a top 30 rider at best without PED's.
    Are you really sure about that?

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenrats View Post
    Besides taking PED's Armstrong is a lying, vindictive, evil, reptilian brained psychopath. There has never been a more determined pathological liar in the history of humanity.
    For an updated, entertaining look at his doping program, read Cycle of Lies by Juliet Macur. Unreal. Lance and the USPS team built the most sophisticated doping program ever around him. Others doped but not at his level.

    He is pretty much a sociopath. To this day he will defend himself and his actions in spite of losing almost everything at this point. In many ways it is sad. The fall from grace is drastic; a modern day Greek tragedy.
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankout View Post
    For an updated, entertaining look at his doping program, read Cycle of Lies by Juliet Macur. Unreal. Lance and the USPS team built the most sophisticated doping program ever around him. Others doped but not at his level.

    He is pretty much a sociopath. To this day he will defend himself and his actions in spite of losing almost everything at this point. In many ways it is sad. The fall from grace is drastic; a modern day Greek tragedy.
    It's a Bill Burr bit, but he was just a sociopath riding a bicycle. We're lucky he didn't end up the CEO of some megacorp where he'd end up dumping toxic waste into orphanages, or some such thing.
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    i know there are lots of warts around lance, but and the end of the day he was still better than his peers (who have thier own warts) for 6 years.......

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    Lance and his legal team continue their campaign to thread the needle ... disclose just what he has to to hang on to his wealth and avoid jail. Riding the statute of limitations as best he can ... claiming he was a victim of a culture that was already there. Everything he has admitted he did so because he was cornered and boxed in.

    How can a guy who admitted what he did truly believe he deserves to keep the performance bonuses paid to him for winning the Tour De France?
    Are you really sure about that?

  21. #46
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    Tour De France

    Quote Originally Posted by borabora View Post
    the commentators are absolute morons,
    During one of last year's Corsican stages, Phil Liggett referred to a dry river channel as an overflow for the Mediterranean Sea.

    I still enjoy watching it, although not as much as a WC DH race. It's a spectacle, like the Olympics.
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  22. #47
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    Tour De France

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky Mtn View Post
    i know there are lots of warts around lance, but and the end of the day he was still better than his peers (who have thier own warts) for 6 years.......
    Yes lots of warts to go around. Post cancer Lance became a Tour de France specialist, training forming a team and doping specifically for this race. No longer did he race one day classic races. nor compete in other grand tours, as many of his rivals did. He did race in minor stage races in late spring stage races (e.g Tour de Suisse) asTdF prep or training. In fact. his TdF specialization was unique in cycling history. The all time greats of the sport competed in more kinds of races, all season long. Merckx dominated his rivals in most of the spring one day classics and all the Grand Tours
    You could say that Merckx was Babe Ruth or Ted Williams to Lance's Barry Bonds or Mark McGuire.

    Lance's achievements though tainted can't be denied on their own terms. But no matter what he did he does not rank near the top of all time bike racers. Top 10 but not top 5

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    Lance Armstrong also got away with it. He's lost 50% of his net worth but that leaves him with around 50 million.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sevenrats View Post
    Lance Armstrong also got away with it. He's lost 50% of his net worth but that leaves him with around 50 million.
    As far as I know, he's being deposed under oath today coincidentally, in a federal whistleblower suit (money defrauded from USPS sponsorship) that carries a tag of about $100 million. Later this month he will be deposed again under oath in relation to the payouts from the insurance company SCA carrying a risk of about $15 million. He's done an awful lot of lying in the past, incuding while under oath in the original SCA arbitration hearing, but it's a whole new game now and if he doesn't play his cards right, there's a real risk of jail time for perjury.

    Let's wait a couple of years to see how this all works out for him in the end.

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    Really?! I thought that the Justice Dept decided not to pursue that suit. Good for them.

    I rooted for him and stuck up for him all those years. To think how rich he got by destroying other people, especially people of lesser means, even when what they were saying was completely true, is disgusting. Even now he shows no remorse.

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