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  1. #1
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    Today's DIY project...

    For you DIY'er's out there...

    I figured I was going to get a better fork sooner or later since all the nice forks are tapered, while my 07 SJ frame doesn't accomodate tapered forks. Anyway got a great deal on an RS Revelation XX Wc fork during black Friday and all the parts got here.

    Time to get to work....

    Designed and made a bottom headset adaptor this morning on my lathe.


    Installed the IS52mm lower head bearing. Everything pressed in correctly with a 0.1mm interference fit, per Cane Creek specs.

    Pressed fit my DIY headset adaptor onto my frame, with JB Weld to bond the adaptor to the frame....


    .....sitting around waiting for everything to set then going to test fit everything and see how it holds up.

    Phase 2 (later) going to do a CF wrap/layup to further bond the headset adaptor into the frame, strengthening it even more.

    -S
    Last edited by shibiwan; 12-02-2012 at 05:26 PM.

  2. #2
    dwt
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    Dude, what can I say?

    Freaking gorgeous
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  3. #3
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    I would rep you again but I already did it earlier and have to wait.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by deke505 View Post
    I would rep you again but I already did it earlier and have to wait.
    LOL thanks - not doing this for the rep... just want to see what kind of mods I can pull off, and perhaps inspire new ideas...

  5. #5
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    +rep...awesome!

  6. #6
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    Well done

    Magura

  7. #7
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    Uh, you know we're going to ask about the lathe...

  8. #8
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    I have two thing's to say about that job.
    1) 2)
    Quote Originally Posted by NDD View Post
    Dude, I'm in Illinois. The only place anyone would come from that would say this area is hilly is Kansas.

  9. #9
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    Nice Work!

  10. #10
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    We need more people like you in this world. People who get sh!t done! Good Job!!

  11. #11
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    Very nice

  12. #12
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    That is an awesome job!! And J.B. Weld rocks

  13. #13
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    Something just dawned on me....

    Did you remember to isolate electrically before gluing it in?

    Like anodizing the adapter or the like.


    Magura

  14. #14
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    what did you jb weld together?

  15. #15
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    Today's update.

    The JB Weld has set nicely - had to grind out a little of the excess glue bead that formed inside the head tube. The clearances are very very tight (I only left 0.2-0.5mm room for the steerer tube to clear).

    After cleanup....


    Test fitting the fork to check clearances


    Putting everything together... looks like I need a longer hose for the front brake (longer travel fork).


    This is turning out to be more work than I thought. Then again I'm out sick and can't ride so boredom sets in.....then again I oughtta do some real "work". (Great when you own your own biz...)

    -S

  16. #16
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    With 0.2-0.5mm clearance, have you checked the steerer tube is that straight?

    When I made my last headset, I did the same, but got a small surprise


    Magura

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    Something just dawned on me....

    Did you remember to isolate electrically before gluing it in?

    Like anodizing the adapter or the like.


    Magura
    Naah... didn't bother to. I bonded it into the existing aluminum headtube insert so it would have been pointless.

    Before I layup the outside of the headset (not sure if I'll get around to doing this yet) I will lay a layer of e-glass to insulate it on the outside. It's plenty strong right now and I'm not too worried. Worst happens I'll lose a few teeth.

    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul View Post
    what did you jb weld together?
    I JB Welded the DIY adaptor to the inside of the aluminum bearing journal in the headtube.

    The adaptor I made was already designed to have 0.1mm interference fit so I had to press it in, but I wanted to make really sure it stayed there and not be a source of creaking and failure. The JB weld was applied to the contact surfaces then the adaptor was pressed in.


    -S

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    With 0.2-0.5mm clearance, have you checked the steerer tube is that straight?

    When I made my last headset, I did the same, but got a small surprise


    Magura
    It checked out ok.... I had more problems with the steerer tube not being completely round at the wide taper end (i.e. where the two halves of the mold for the tube make the parting line). I had to wet-sand the slight bulges. Even the new crown race didn't want to fit in properly.

    -S

  19. #19
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    Nice work.

    Did adding the adapter change the geometry? Or did you shorten the headtube?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by justin_amador View Post
    Nice work.

    Did adding the adapter change the geometry? Or did you shorten the headtube?
    I did not shorten the headtube because the adaptor mounts into the existing integrated headtube insert. The adaptor added 10mm and the front fork angle is now at 69 degrees, within the original designed geometry of 69-71 degrees. It was originally 72 degrees with the TALAS fork I was using.

    I took the opportunity to raise the stem another 5mm to help out my back on long rides.

    Found a longer hose in my spares. Woot!! All done! Probably try a test ride later if I feel better and stop coughing.


    I think I have too much crap on my handlebar now. LOL


    -S
    Last edited by shibiwan; 12-03-2012 at 12:13 PM.

  21. #21
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    Nice work although I wouldn't trust jb weld on anything ever. (especially of it moves or needs to support weight.). I'm a welder and often have to get that crap off to make a real repair. I'd go with a good press fit. Nice machine work fo sho.
    Keep trying to do the awesomest thing you've ever done.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bamwa1 View Post
    Nice work although I wouldn't trust jb weld on anything ever. (especially of it moves or needs to support weight.). I'm a welder and often have to get that crap off to make a real repair. I'd go with a good press fit. Nice machine work fo sho.
    He is not trusting JB Weld for anything but holding the part in place, till he gets some carbon around it


    Magura

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    Quote Originally Posted by bamwa1 View Post
    Nice work although I wouldn't trust jb weld on anything ever. (especially of it moves or needs to support weight.). I'm a welder and often have to get that crap off to make a real repair. I'd go with a good press fit. Nice machine work fo sho.
    Therein lies the problem. Can't weld (carbon frame) so what other options did I have?

    Yes, I did make it press fit well (aka interference fit) and on top of that used JB weld when I pressed everything together for added peace of mind. It feels "strong enough" but I'm waiting on some raw 12K tow to come in so I can renforce it from the outside.

    -S

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by shibiwan View Post
    Therein lies the problem. Can't weld (carbon frame) so what other options did I have?

    Yes, I did make it press fit well (aka interference fit) and on top of that used JB weld when I pressed everything together for added peace of mind. It feels "strong enough" but I'm waiting on some raw 12K tow to come in so I can renforce it from the outside.

    -S
    In that case, it is not ok. There are a couple of adhesives that would be fine, JB Weld is not one of them.

    I thought you were just holding it in place with JB Weld, till the carbon was in place?


    Magura

    Realized this sounded a bit cryptic. Hysol 9466 is the ticket.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    In that case, it is not ok. There are a couple of adhesives that would be fine, JB Weld is not one of them.

    I thought you were just holding it in place with JB Weld, till the carbon was in place?


    Magura

    Realized this sounded a bit cryptic. Hysol 9466 is the ticket.
    I just grabbed what I could find at the moment. LOL.... all the other stuff I had lying around was regular epoxy and polyester resins.

    It should be good enough. Lap shear strength is about 1000psi compared to 1700 for Loctite 9466. You gotta also consider that the parts are also in constant tension (assuming I tightened the steerer tube correctly ) so there is an additional force pulling everything together. That's why I'm going to add some plies of carbon fiber on the outside and "assimilate" the adaptor into the frame.

    JB Weld is like Duct Tape ... a quick and dirty fix. I've repaired engine blocks, missing threads etc with it with various success rates. Most important in JB Weld is the cure process - need to control the temperatures for it to cure properly....

    -S

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by shibiwan View Post
    I just grabbed what I could find at the moment. LOL.... all the other stuff I had lying around was regular epoxy and polyester resins.

    It should be good enough. Lap shear strength is about 1000psi compared to 1700 for Loctite 9466. You gotta also consider that the parts are in constant tension (assuming I tightened the steerer tube correctly ) so there is an additional force pulling everything together. That's why I'm going to add some plies of carbon fiber on the outside and "assimilate" the adaptor into the frame.

    JB Weld is like Duct Tape ... a quick and dirty fix. I've repaired engine blocks, missing threads etc with it with various success rates. Most important in JB Weld is the cure process - need to control the temperatures for it to cure properly....

    -S
    Let's see. You just might get away with doing it "redneck" style

    For the future, I'd have a small tube of 9466 laying around though. It's like JB Weld on steroids.

    Magura

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    Let's see. You just might get away with doing it "redneck" style

    For the future, I'd have a small tube of 9466 laying around though. It's like JB Weld on steroids.

    Magura
    True... should just order some and leave it on standby in the shop.

    My wife won't allow me to grow a mullet tho. She said it doesn't go with an asian guy. LOL

    -S

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by shibiwan View Post
    True... should just order some and leave it on standby in the shop.

    My wife won't allow me to grow a mullet tho. She said it doesn't go with an asian guy. LOL

    -S
    That's how I get around. I have some of the special stuff laying around, and go buy the common stuff as needed.
    Keeps the stock down to a reasonable level.

    Since she won't allow you a mullet, maybe she's not that bad after all


    Magura

  29. #29
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    Just took it around for a spin on the dirt, did a few jumps.... no creaks....looks good... Worst happens I'll lose a few (more?) teeth.

    -S

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by shibiwan View Post
    Just took it around for a spin on the dirt, did a few jumps.... no creaks....looks good... Worst happens I'll lose a few (more) teeth.

    -S
    LOL!

    All hail JB Weld

    BTW, are you on the right side of the pond?

    Magura

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    LOL!

    All hail JB Weld

    BTW, are you on the right side of the pond?

    Magura
    What pond? I'm living in Arizona - at the edge of Phoenix and right at the desert. No ponds around here.

    This is the trail 3 miles from my house:


    -S

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    Quote Originally Posted by shibiwan View Post
    What pond? I'm living in Arizona - at the edge of Phoenix and right at the desert. No ponds around here.

    This is the trail 3 miles from my house:


    -S
    The pond, AKA the Atlantic ocean.
    So since I live on the right side.......

    Could have been fun to meet up though.


    Magura 😃

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    The pond, AKA the Atlantic ocean.
    So since I live on the right side.......

    Could have been fun to meet up though.


    Magura 😃
    I was just giving you crap about the pond. LOL

    I was born and raised in Singpore, and moved to Arizona in the late 90's.

    -S

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    Quote Originally Posted by shibiwan View Post
    What pond? I'm living in Arizona - at the edge of Phoenix and right at the desert. No ponds around here.

    This is the trail 3 miles from my house:


    -S
    Is that the Santans your riding? I just noticed you were in Chandler Heights. I'm up in Chandler and usually hit South mountain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z4good View Post
    Is that the Santans your riding? I just noticed you were in Chandler Heights. I'm up in Chandler and usually hit South mountain.
    Yes that's the Santans, I'm usually ride up there almost daily until I hurt myself bad 3 weeks ago on the trail.... then followed by a bout of diarrhea and now a bad cold that I'm just getting over.

    Keeping my fingers crossed and hope to be back on the trails by week's end.

    -S

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by shibiwan View Post
    Yes that's the Santans, I'm usually ride up there almost daily until I hurt myself bad 3 weeks ago on the trail.... then followed by a bout of diarrhea and now a bad cold that I'm just getting over.

    Keeping my fingers crossed and hope to be back on the trails by week's end.

    -S
    I'm gonna have to get down there and check them out.

    I know the feeling, I've been down with the crud for about a week now. Everybody's getting sick at work. Oh well, " Tis the season" Get well. And on your bike.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by bamwa1 View Post
    Nice work although I wouldn't trust jb weld on anything ever. (especially of it moves or needs to support weight.). I'm a welder and often have to get that crap off to make a real repair. I'd go with a good press fit. Nice machine work fo sho.
    I made my living as a welder for a while as well. JB weld is one of the most versatile two part epoxies on the market and it truly is awesome stuff. It also sucks that some people use it to fix damn near everything. Even when it's not an appropriate application.

    OP, nice work.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Magura View Post
    In that case, it is not ok. There are a couple of adhesives that would be fine, JB Weld is not one of them.

    I thought you were just holding it in place with JB Weld, till the carbon was in place?


    Magura

    Realized this sounded a bit cryptic. Hysol 9466 is the ticket.
    The adhesive is just insurance against creaks. The interference fit holds it together. Plus the entire thing is under tension. If the adhesive fails it's not going anywhere it's just going to creak. The steer tube is more than enough insurance.

    Personally I would have installed it with a bearing retaining compound so I could have removed it if I ever needed to.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab View Post
    Personally I would have installed it with a bearing retaining compound so I could have removed it if I ever needed to.
    Don't think I'll ever remove it, especially after I lay up carbon fiber on the outside to reinforce it and integrate it into the head tube.

    Besides, the inside of the head tube had to be enlarged so the original bearing seat (that 45 degree angle lip) has been ground to 40mm diameter leaving only a little bit of the seat in the headtube. I guess if I had to revert it's still possible but I'd question the fitment/security of the bearing in the "old" modified seat.

    -S
    Last edited by shibiwan; 12-04-2012 at 09:38 AM.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by shibiwan View Post
    Don't think I'll ever remove it, especially after I lay up carbon fiber on the outside to reinforce it and integrate it into the head tube.

    Besides, the inside of the head tube had to be enlarged so the original bearing seat (that 45 degree angle lip) has been ground to 40mm diameter leaving only a little bit of the seat in the headtube. I guess if I had to revert it's still possible but I'd question the fitment/security of the bearing in the "old" modified seat.

    -S
    Didn't catch the part where you had modified the existing bearing seat. In that case it's not going back to original. Not really a big deal as you can get reducers to run a normal 1.125" fork for your modified setup.

    I normally prefer to do things like this in a semi-permeant way thus my preference for bearing retention compound.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by customfab View Post
    I made my living as a welder for a while as well. JB weld is one of the most versatile two part epoxies on the market and it truly is awesome stuff.
    .
    Maybe that why it was only for a while. Ahh just ribbing ya. Respectfully speaking, I've just never had any success with it, it will dry out and crumble like playdoh. The fact that it's under tension makes it even worse and I don't think would help it hold it together at all but make it crumble sooner. If it's a thin layer maybe there wont be enough to make a difference.
    As for two part, bondo is pretty good and is used on metal and wood in the construction
    industry. I use that sometimes as a filler but haven't tested it as glue. I would think
    this two part epoxy from autozone would work good for aluminum to carbon.

    The absolute strongest 2 part stuff I've ever used is liquid rock.

    I use it on bolts and it adheres to the metal and cinder block strong enough to shear the bolt if you try to remove it. It's for one time install.
    Anyways hope I didn't freak you out. Like I said it'll probably be fine and hopefully holds out for you. Ride on. It must be awesome to be that close to sweet mtns and year round riding. Ever see a gila monster on the trail?
    Keep trying to do the awesomest thing you've ever done.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by shibiwan View Post

    Designed and made a bottom headset adaptor this morning on my lathe.
    I hate you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bamwa1 View Post
    Maybe that why it was only for a while. Ahh just ribbing ya. Respectfully speaking, I've just never had any success with it, it will dry out and crumble like playdoh. The fact that it's under tension makes it even worse and I don't think would help it hold it together at all but make it crumble sooner. If it's a thin layer maybe there wont be enough to make a difference.
    As for two part, bondo is pretty good and is used on metal and wood in the construction
    industry. I use that sometimes as a filler but haven't tested it as glue. I would think
    this two part epoxy from autozone would work good for aluminum to carbon.

    I use it on bolts and it adheres to the metal and cinder block strong enough to shear the bolt if you try to remove it. It's for one time install.
    Anyways hope I didn't freak you out. Like I said it'll probably be fine and hopefully holds out for you. Ride on. It must be awesome to be that close to sweet mtns and year round riding. Ever see a gila monster on the trail?
    I got the carbon-aluminum bonding stuff in the shop. We use Hysol EA 9394 for the aluminum/carbon interface. That's the "proper" stuff to use. Hysol EA 9390 is a good alternative.

    I'm not freaked out. As I mentioned, phase 2 of the project is laying up carbon on the outside of the headtube & adaptor. The 12k IM7 tow just came in... at this point I'm just dragging my feet and probably waiting for the weekend to start on phase 2.

    -S

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    Quote Originally Posted by GelatiCruiser View Post
    I hate you.
    ...and my 2 CNC mills. (you wanna kill me now don't you)


  45. #45
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    Yes. Yes I do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shibiwan View Post
    ...and my 2 CNC mills. (you wanna kill me now don't you)

    Giggity. Wish I could +rep you again

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    Nice work. Pimptastic even.

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    Man, that's just cruel as hell, actually that beyond called for, that's just plain downright mean
    Quote Originally Posted by shibiwan View Post
    ...and my 2 CNC mills. (you wanna kill me now don't you)

    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
    MTB Barbados
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