Take offs sold as new
Let's say you are buying a new bike, which is being built up piece by piece instead of bought as a complete bike.
Let's say you determine that the shop selling it is using take offs from other bikes, and that you are charged the new part price.
Is that something that would tick you off? Or would you figure - hey, it's not heavily used, I never would have known the difference?
Me - I think a take off is a take off and should be disclosed as such.
Not only do I want new parts in boxes, I feel that charging new prices for take off parts is a fraudulent practice and should be persued as such.
I am confused about why a bike shop would do this. now they have a bunch of bikes with missing parts that they have to replace with new parts. it's a bad deal for them, but it really should not affect your bike in the end.
take off as in "used 5 times" or take off as in "before the customer even bought he wanted to swap out rear derailuer, saddle and stem"?
If a bike was built up and sat on showroom floor and the buyer wanted to replace host of parts and the bike never hit the dirt.. It really is a new part. Just no box. Technically a take off, but very similar to a new return part. Depending on what it is it could very well be new and never used.
'12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", '06 Rocky Mtn Switch 26" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.
I would want to make sure it came with the full warranty, and I would expect some kind of discount from msrp.
I am trying to picture this and here is where I am: A shop has many take offs from customers buying new bikes and swapping out parts prior to the purchase. The shop now has boxes of "new" parts sitting around. The shop hatches a plan to sell said parts. They buy a frame, build it up with take offs and sell it new to a customer. Is the bike new? Yes. Are the parts new? Yes. Will you get a warranty on the bike? Most likely but similar to other new bikes...lifetime or so on the frame and a year on the parts.
Is the bike unique and totally custom? Yes and it is now badass as well.
I think the shop should be able to charge whatever a buyer is willing to pay for it. Could be a sweet ride.
Lets say I run a bike shop. You come to my shop and find out you really like a particular bike in my display, only you prefer it with a different saddle. Lets say the original saddle on the bike retails for $50, but you want a Brooks that retails at $100.
Originally Posted by daves4mtb
Normally that would be a $50 swap, you get the $100 Brooks and I put the $50 original saddle on sale in my shop at $50 because it's still brand new and unused.
However someone decides it's now a take off and that I can only sell it at $40 because it once sat on a display bike. So in order to make up that loss I have to ask you $110 for the $100 Brooks saddle you wanted for your new bike. Or I can refuse to refund you the full price of the original saddle, because now it's a marked down take off. Either way it gets more expensive for you.
In short, take offs ARE new parts as long as they haven't seen any use.
"New" means untouched, in original packaging.
I consider a take off part new if it hasn't seen any use. I could care less about a box it came in.
Is it really the public perception that shops are ripping consumers off by "underhanded" tactics such as moving new parts from one bike to another? Is a part used after the shop test rides it? Are only parts in boxes new? If that is the case there are no manufacturers that install new parts. OEM parts are not in boxes.
There are so many more important considerations to think about. This is just silly paranoia. No wonder there are so many shops having to close their doors.
THIS is what everybody is concerned about. Somehow a box makes it better and worth more in their heads.
Originally Posted by OGWGFIWRT
NEW is NEW is NEW. Not used. If it is used, then you deserve a discount. The parts on a new bike did not all come in a box when installed on the bike. You do not get a discount for them.
If you don't like their business model, shop elsewhere. Whining about it here does nothing.
Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve
Assuming the parts are unused, I couldn't care any less about this.
New parts do not have to come in the boxes, I've got mine brand new OEM parts in a plastic bags and they are not take offs, of course I didn't pay full price, but I didn't get it from the lbs either. I'd considered a showroom take off as new, a little discount would have been nice but not necessary.
If I want cheaper parts I'd just buy the parts and bring it to the shop. What level of the parts is it.
unused? i could care less about getting my stem in a box. less landfill. as long as it is unused i have no problem paying msrp.
I would still classify it as new yes and do not have any issue with it.
I would say that it is conventional to notify the customer of this and often to lower the price a bit. Many shops have a policy that once it is installed it is no longer new, but this can be very impractical sometimes. e.g., trying tires to make sure they clear the frame.
OEM parts are typically cheaper, so if the shop is marking them up based on the cost of new parts in the box, they will have a higher profit margin, communicating this practice to the customer is important(to the customer) because the customer will have a better sense of the bargaining position of the shop. Of course the shop has an incentive to not let you know.
Sandrensaren's example of a $50 saddle is relevant, as one might wonder where the price came from. Most shops(all of the dozen I've worked at) won't give you full msrp(when buying a new bike from them) on a take-off, new, OEM part that you can subtract from the price of the bike or keep as store credit, since they know that people will want to pay less for that new, OEM part. Unless its a high-end part, shops I've worked at will typically throw the take-offs into a deep discount box and give the customer a discount on the upgrade.
There is no straightforward answer other than that it is reasonable for the customer to expect the shop to answer questions truthfully, and both parties can bargain from there.
parts get damaged much more often when shipped while attached to an assembled bike; parts are also damaged at times during assembly. There's a higher probability that you're receiving a slightly damaged part if its take-off.
Originally Posted by bankerboy
New and used are not always easily distinguished; the part in the box comes with extra information that is worth $ to most people.
And the 1 year warranty on parts: if you're honest with the sales rep, there's a higher likelihood that the warranty will be denied.
Fortunately we have well-functioning markets that tell us about how consumers feel about this issue; quite consistently, OEM parts are worth less than straight from the mfg in a box, as evidenced by bikeisland parts, ebay parts that advertise OEM, etc.
I would hope/expect a price break on a take-off part, no matter what it is, ecspecially if you frequent this shop. Just sayin.
Oldest daughter doesn't ride.
I don't really care so long as nothing is wrong with
the part. However maybe I'm lucky because the shops
I go to always give me a good discount.
if the shop is doing you a favor to get the part to the customer faster than i would expect to pay full price
if you are not in a rush and these are new take offs, i don't see why you would pay the same as boxed retail..
if these are used, i would expect at least 40% off
I'm curious, how do you know it's a take off, and/or the parts been used. Beside the obvious lack of retail packages of course.
Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk
II watched the mechanic take a stem off of a new bike on the showroom floor to sell to me. I wanted a wide handlebar and a short stem. He did not have the stem length I wanted on the shelf. He took a slightly longer stem, walked over to a new Trek bike, and swapped them. I bought the handlebar and shorter stem at full MSRP.
No problem. He would certainly adjust stem length for the customer who eventually buys the new Trek. Everyone does fine.
"Head injuries are pretty high-consequence" - AndrwSwitch
Did you ask for a discount? I'm a craft vendor (I sell a high priced wooden craft I make myself) and after 15 years of doing so, I've learned to never offer a discount until asked, Just like a hotel room there's usually a better price if you are willing to jump through a few hoops.
Originally Posted by DavyRay
Keep in mind that he probably put a full price stem from inventory on the bike you got yours from.
In this scenario, we are pretending that the LBS actually paid $50 for the original seat. They didn't. It came as part of a bike. They don't pay retail and they don't pay the sum of all of the individual parts for the bike. In reality they paid less than $40. So, I believe they can do the upgrade as described for $50 (they'll make a profit there) and then sell the "take off" seat for $40 (they'll make a profit there, too). I guess I'm an educated consumer.
Originally Posted by Sandrenseren
A realistic and reasonable mark up on merchandise in most retail stores is between 50 and 100 percent. So in the same scenario you are quoting the store would have paid between $20 and $30 for the saddle they are selling for $40. So that makes a (taking the higher markup) a $20 "profit" in your world.
Originally Posted by huffster
Except What overhead did you factor into your math?
Property Rent - very few own the land and building where they are located. Easily bite close to 30 -50 percent of the profit.
Personnel - Unless they live in their shop, there are others who work there. Subtract 30% of the profit
Day to day expenses (electricity, gas, water, insurance, payroll taxes, bank expenses ) - Subtract another 20% of the profit
As far as an educated consumer, I am not disputing that. The problem is when the educated feels they are entitled. I think that is the real issue out there. The internet shops exist for those people. But those are the same folks who scream about crappy service from the on-line shops. Sometimes we can't have it both ways. There will be some LBS's that are standouts and have the volume to work this way. The majority are squeaking by.
So on a $40 dollar saddle where you believe there is a $20 profit and feel entitled to a discount, the real profit is far less. It is not unrealistic for a retail bike shop to work on the margin. So don't be too surprised that they don't go out of their way to offer a discount on a new and unused take-off.
Apathy will get you exactly what you deserve