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  1. #1
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    Take offs sold as new

    Let's say you are buying a new bike, which is being built up piece by piece instead of bought as a complete bike.

    Let's say you determine that the shop selling it is using take offs from other bikes, and that you are charged the new part price.

    Is that something that would tick you off? Or would you figure - hey, it's not heavily used, I never would have known the difference?

    Me - I think a take off is a take off and should be disclosed as such.

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    Not only do I want new parts in boxes, I feel that charging new prices for take off parts is a fraudulent practice and should be persued as such.

  3. #3
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    I am confused about why a bike shop would do this. now they have a bunch of bikes with missing parts that they have to replace with new parts. it's a bad deal for them, but it really should not affect your bike in the end.

  4. #4
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    take off as in "used 5 times" or take off as in "before the customer even bought he wanted to swap out rear derailuer, saddle and stem"?

    If a bike was built up and sat on showroom floor and the buyer wanted to replace host of parts and the bike never hit the dirt.. It really is a new part. Just no box. Technically a take off, but very similar to a new return part. Depending on what it is it could very well be new and never used.
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  5. #5
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    I would want to make sure it came with the full warranty, and I would expect some kind of discount from msrp.

  6. #6
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    I am trying to picture this and here is where I am: A shop has many take offs from customers buying new bikes and swapping out parts prior to the purchase. The shop now has boxes of "new" parts sitting around. The shop hatches a plan to sell said parts. They buy a frame, build it up with take offs and sell it new to a customer. Is the bike new? Yes. Are the parts new? Yes. Will you get a warranty on the bike? Most likely but similar to other new bikes...lifetime or so on the frame and a year on the parts.

    Is the bike unique and totally custom? Yes and it is now badass as well.

    I think the shop should be able to charge whatever a buyer is willing to pay for it. Could be a sweet ride.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Me - I think a take off is a take off and should be disclosed as such.
    Lets say I run a bike shop. You come to my shop and find out you really like a particular bike in my display, only you prefer it with a different saddle. Lets say the original saddle on the bike retails for $50, but you want a Brooks that retails at $100.

    Normally that would be a $50 swap, you get the $100 Brooks and I put the $50 original saddle on sale in my shop at $50 because it's still brand new and unused.

    However someone decides it's now a take off and that I can only sell it at $40 because it once sat on a display bike. So in order to make up that loss I have to ask you $110 for the $100 Brooks saddle you wanted for your new bike. Or I can refuse to refund you the full price of the original saddle, because now it's a marked down take off. Either way it gets more expensive for you.

    In short, take offs ARE new parts as long as they haven't seen any use.

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    "New" means untouched, in original packaging.

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    I consider a take off part new if it hasn't seen any use. I could care less about a box it came in.

  10. #10
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    Is it really the public perception that shops are ripping consumers off by "underhanded" tactics such as moving new parts from one bike to another? Is a part used after the shop test rides it? Are only parts in boxes new? If that is the case there are no manufacturers that install new parts. OEM parts are not in boxes.

    There are so many more important considerations to think about. This is just silly paranoia. No wonder there are so many shops having to close their doors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OGWGFIWRT View Post
    . OEM parts are not in boxes.
    THIS is what everybody is concerned about. Somehow a box makes it better and worth more in their heads.

    NEW is NEW is NEW. Not used. If it is used, then you deserve a discount. The parts on a new bike did not all come in a box when installed on the bike. You do not get a discount for them.

    If you don't like their business model, shop elsewhere. Whining about it here does nothing.
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    Assuming the parts are unused, I couldn't care any less about this.

  13. #13
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    New parts do not have to come in the boxes, I've got mine brand new OEM parts in a plastic bags and they are not take offs, of course I didn't pay full price, but I didn't get it from the lbs either. I'd considered a showroom take off as new, a little discount would have been nice but not necessary.

    If I want cheaper parts I'd just buy the parts and bring it to the shop. What level of the parts is it.

  14. #14
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    unused? i could care less about getting my stem in a box. less landfill. as long as it is unused i have no problem paying msrp.

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    I would still classify it as new yes and do not have any issue with it.

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    I would say that it is conventional to notify the customer of this and often to lower the price a bit. Many shops have a policy that once it is installed it is no longer new, but this can be very impractical sometimes. e.g., trying tires to make sure they clear the frame.

    OEM parts are typically cheaper, so if the shop is marking them up based on the cost of new parts in the box, they will have a higher profit margin, communicating this practice to the customer is important(to the customer) because the customer will have a better sense of the bargaining position of the shop. Of course the shop has an incentive to not let you know.

    Sandrensaren's example of a $50 saddle is relevant, as one might wonder where the price came from. Most shops(all of the dozen I've worked at) won't give you full msrp(when buying a new bike from them) on a take-off, new, OEM part that you can subtract from the price of the bike or keep as store credit, since they know that people will want to pay less for that new, OEM part. Unless its a high-end part, shops I've worked at will typically throw the take-offs into a deep discount box and give the customer a discount on the upgrade.

    There is no straightforward answer other than that it is reasonable for the customer to expect the shop to answer questions truthfully, and both parties can bargain from there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bankerboy View Post
    NEW is NEW is NEW. Not used. If it is used, then you deserve a discount. The parts on a new bike did not all come in a box when installed on the bike. You do not get a discount for them.
    parts get damaged much more often when shipped while attached to an assembled bike; parts are also damaged at times during assembly. There's a higher probability that you're receiving a slightly damaged part if its take-off.

    New and used are not always easily distinguished; the part in the box comes with extra information that is worth $ to most people.

    And the 1 year warranty on parts: if you're honest with the sales rep, there's a higher likelihood that the warranty will be denied.

    Fortunately we have well-functioning markets that tell us about how consumers feel about this issue; quite consistently, OEM parts are worth less than straight from the mfg in a box, as evidenced by bikeisland parts, ebay parts that advertise OEM, etc.

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    I would hope/expect a price break on a take-off part, no matter what it is, ecspecially if you frequent this shop. Just sayin.
    Oldest daughter doesn't ride.

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    I don't really care so long as nothing is wrong with
    the part. However maybe I'm lucky because the shops
    I go to always give me a good discount.

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    if the shop is doing you a favor to get the part to the customer faster than i would expect to pay full price
    if you are not in a rush and these are new take offs, i don't see why you would pay the same as boxed retail..

    if these are used, i would expect at least 40% off

  21. #21
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    I'm curious, how do you know it's a take off, and/or the parts been used. Beside the obvious lack of retail packages of course.


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  22. #22
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    II watched the mechanic take a stem off of a new bike on the showroom floor to sell to me. I wanted a wide handlebar and a short stem. He did not have the stem length I wanted on the shelf. He took a slightly longer stem, walked over to a new Trek bike, and swapped them. I bought the handlebar and shorter stem at full MSRP.

    No problem. He would certainly adjust stem length for the customer who eventually buys the new Trek. Everyone does fine.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavyRay View Post
    II watched the mechanic take a stem off of a new bike on the showroom floor to sell to me. I wanted a wide handlebar and a short stem. He did not have the stem length I wanted on the shelf. He took a slightly longer stem, walked over to a new Trek bike, and swapped them. I bought the handlebar and shorter stem at full MSRP.

    No problem. He would certainly adjust stem length for the customer who eventually buys the new Trek. Everyone does fine.
    Did you ask for a discount? I'm a craft vendor (I sell a high priced wooden craft I make myself) and after 15 years of doing so, I've learned to never offer a discount until asked, Just like a hotel room there's usually a better price if you are willing to jump through a few hoops.
    Keep in mind that he probably put a full price stem from inventory on the bike you got yours from.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandrenseren View Post
    Lets say I run a bike shop. You come to my shop and find out you really like a particular bike in my display, only you prefer it with a different saddle. Lets say the original saddle on the bike retails for $50, but you want a Brooks that retails at $100.

    Normally that would be a $50 swap, you get the $100 Brooks and I put the $50 original saddle on sale in my shop at $50 because it's still brand new and unused.

    However someone decides it's now a take off and that I can only sell it at $40 because it once sat on a display bike. So in order to make up that loss I have to ask you $110 for the $100 Brooks saddle you wanted for your new bike. Or I can refuse to refund you the full price of the original saddle, because now it's a marked down take off. Either way it gets more expensive for you.

    In short, take offs ARE new parts as long as they haven't seen any use.
    In this scenario, we are pretending that the LBS actually paid $50 for the original seat. They didn't. It came as part of a bike. They don't pay retail and they don't pay the sum of all of the individual parts for the bike. In reality they paid less than $40. So, I believe they can do the upgrade as described for $50 (they'll make a profit there) and then sell the "take off" seat for $40 (they'll make a profit there, too). I guess I'm an educated consumer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by huffster View Post
    In this scenario, we are pretending that the LBS actually paid $50 for the original seat. They didn't. It came as part of a bike. They don't pay retail and they don't pay the sum of all of the individual parts for the bike. In reality they paid less than $40. So, I believe they can do the upgrade as described for $50 (they'll make a profit there) and then sell the "take off" seat for $40 (they'll make a profit there, too). I guess I'm an educated consumer.
    A realistic and reasonable mark up on merchandise in most retail stores is between 50 and 100 percent. So in the same scenario you are quoting the store would have paid between $20 and $30 for the saddle they are selling for $40. So that makes a (taking the higher markup) a $20 "profit" in your world.

    Except What overhead did you factor into your math?

    Property Rent - very few own the land and building where they are located. Easily bite close to 30 -50 percent of the profit.
    Personnel - Unless they live in their shop, there are others who work there. Subtract 30% of the profit
    Day to day expenses (electricity, gas, water, insurance, payroll taxes, bank expenses ) - Subtract another 20% of the profit

    As far as an educated consumer, I am not disputing that. The problem is when the educated feels they are entitled. I think that is the real issue out there. The internet shops exist for those people. But those are the same folks who scream about crappy service from the on-line shops. Sometimes we can't have it both ways. There will be some LBS's that are standouts and have the volume to work this way. The majority are squeaking by.

    So on a $40 dollar saddle where you believe there is a $20 profit and feel entitled to a discount, the real profit is far less. It is not unrealistic for a retail bike shop to work on the margin. So don't be too surprised that they don't go out of their way to offer a discount on a new and unused take-off.
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    I wouldn't pay MSRP for take-offs but I really won't pay MSRP for anything. As long as the part is still warrantied and is good as new, I wouldn't mind a bit. I did find out a LBS owner ordered me a "blem" frame without disclosing to me that it was a blem and that bugged me a bit

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    I am confused about why a bike shop would do this. now they have a bunch of bikes with missing parts that they have to replace with new parts. it's a bad deal for them, but it really should not affect your bike in the end.
    Some shops will buy a bunch of year end leftover bikes in weird frame sizes from manufacturers (at wholesale discount), part them out and make more money that way. Seems like it's usually shops that do web sales as well.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by elwoodturner View Post
    Did you ask for a discount? I'm a craft vendor (I sell a high priced wooden craft I make myself) and after 15 years of doing so, I've learned to never offer a discount until asked, Just like a hotel room there's usually a better price if you are willing to jump through a few hoops.
    Keep in mind that he probably put a full price stem from inventory on the bike you got yours from.
    Yes. He took the full price stem from inventory and installed it on the new Trek on the shop floor. I got the shorter stem which he removed from the same bike. I guess the shop would do similar parts swaps to get the cockpit right for the customer buying the new bike from them. They are pretty much full MSRP, but are a full-service shop.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkley View Post
    Some shops will buy a bunch of year end leftover bikes in weird frame sizes from manufacturers (at wholesale discount), part them out and make more money that way. Seems like it's usually shops that do web sales as well.
    This. If they part out a NEW bike with NEW parts that they got at a discounted rate, good on them. It might not be "in the box" new...and I know how most of us like to get our new toys and open them ourselves...but it's never used, not a floor model, has shop service/implied warranty and mfr's warranty attached to it. BFD.

  30. #30
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    Some of you guys are mixed up bad. Would you prefer if the shop in an attempt to "be totally honest", adopted a new policy:

    Step one: Sell you a bike..."as equiped" only.
    Step two: Sell you "in the box" upgrades at msrp.
    Step three: Charge you to install your parts and void any warranty because they are your parts.

    You leave with a new bike and a bag of "used parts" and new boxes.

    The shop is just trying to get you on the bike you want. Give them a break.
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  31. #31
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    I am of the opinion that it is none of my business what profit the shop makes. They provide as service, the service costs money, I am either willing to pay or I take my business somewhere else.

    As a consumer I ask questions when I purchase things. It is not our right as a consumers to know what a shop pays for the merchandise they sell and thus their profit margin. But I do believe it is our right to have a degree of certainty that what we are purchasing is new and warranted as such. If not, it should be disclosed and we should have the option to purchase or not.

    I recently purchased an XT front shifter for $15 bucks. It was disclosed that it was OEM and it came in a plastic bag with the cable and that was it. No instructions, housing or other parts that usually come with brand new shifters. I saved $65 off of MSRP and I was stoked! If I had purchased the same part from a LBS and had them instal it, I would have paid the price they were asking and I would not have known if they paid $15 bucks or wholesale, but I would have rolled away happy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by floydlippencott View Post
    "New" means untouched, in original packaging.
    so there is no such thing as a new bike on the showroom floor?


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    this thread is so full of stupid...


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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Let's say you are buying a new bike, which is being built up piece by piece instead of bought as a complete bike.

    Let's say you determine that the shop selling it is using take offs from other bikes, and that you are charged the new part price.

    Is that something that would tick you off? Or would you figure - hey, it's not heavily used, I never would have known the difference?

    Me - I think a take off is a take off and should be disclosed as such.
    OEM vs non OEM, there is a difference in price. I would be pretty ticked off, getting ripped off does not sit well with me, unless its disclosed.

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    If all of these parts are new, does it really matter if they
    come in a box? 5 minutes down the trail who the hell is
    ever going to know the difference. If they work that is all
    that should matter.

  36. #36
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    Misrepresentation seems to be the thing that most people are taking issue with. If your going to sell take off parts, disclosure of that would eliminate any potential misunderstandings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    If all of these parts are new, does it really matter if they
    come in a box? 5 minutes down the trail who the hell is
    ever going to know the difference. If they work that is all
    that should matter.
    lmao, is that what you think the difference between oem and non oem is? I'm guessing yes going by your answer, but no you are wrong.
    Some parts are classified as just oem, you can't buy them as non oem, an oem version of a fork will differ from a version thats offered to the public, it could be less features or more/less travel, steel stanchions etc. An oem component can be of lesser quality than a non oem component. That's why they are generally cheaper, and no the box does not make up the difference. Marzocchi was big on this.
    Personally, I stay away from oem components whenever possible.
    Last edited by SV11; 01-24-2013 at 03:52 PM.

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    ^ I'm talking about the same exact part. One that comes
    in a box and one that doesn't. If they are the "same" I don't
    have a problem. Of course if they are different all bets are
    off.

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    we've lost sight of the op's scenario in which he got what he wanted from a new bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Kuhl View Post
    ^ I'm talking about the same exact part. One that comes
    in a box and one that doesn't. If they are the "same" I don't
    have a problem. Of course if they are different all bets are
    off.
    The part that doesn't come in a box is not generally from the component manufacturer, the manufacturer doesn't ship a component without a box to the public. There is usally a difference, sometimes slight, sometimes massive.

    Warranty claims of OEM Shimano parts
    Shimano components that comes as a built up bikes as offered by the manufacturers/brands , should be refered back to the bicycle manufacturers/brands through the outlets/dealers respectively. As these are not serviced by the Shimano distributors. That should clear it up for you.

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    I'd be okay paying full price in that situation... If I didn't want to I could order the part and wait a week to get it or get a brand new one right there. Seems like a no brainer to me. Warranty is the same, etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Wrong. In that scenario, I did not get what I consider new parts mor was there any disclosure of the issue.
    so you don't consider a showroom floor model new?


  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    The part that doesn't come in a box is not generally from the component manufacturer, the manufacturer doesn't ship a component without a box to the public. There is usally a difference, sometimes slight, sometimes massive.

    Warranty claims of OEM Shimano parts
    Shimano components that comes as a built up bikes as offered by the manufacturers/brands , should be refered back to the bicycle manufacturers/brands through the outlets/dealers respectively. As these are not serviced by the Shimano distributors. That should clear it up for you.
    so how's OEM Shimano different from bike manufactures? They are the same damn parts. Very little exception, like the first press fit bb and bolt on front der, but not the issues for most bikes. The example you mentioned would make more sense if you are referring to fox.

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    At my shop we have a large collection of pull offs from customer upgrades on new bikes etc. To me a pull off part means only used enough to set the bike up initially. Never used on the trail or anything. All of these parts are full disclosure and a minimum 10% off retail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    So you think you know that there is no warranty issue? I doubt that. I think you assume there is no warranty issue but the reality is it is unclear. Just one of the problems ...
    Do you have documented proof you can post here? I would really like to see this in print rather than "this guy heard from a friend who's twice removed cousin worked once in a bike shop...:

    Speculative at best.
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    So you think you know that there is no warranty issue? I doubt that. I think you assume there is no warranty issue but the reality is it is unclear. Just one of the problems ...
    The sale goes down in inventory as a new part sold out of inventory. It likely makes the count go to -1, store orders new part and replaces back on original bike so that it is spec'd properly. For all anyone understands, you bought a new part from the store. You have receipt, etc., all works out the same, so I would really expect the warranty to be honored.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mimi1885 View Post
    so how's OEM Shimano different from bike manufactures? They are the same damn parts. Very little exception, like the first press fit bb and bolt on front der, but not the issues for most bikes. The example you mentioned would make more sense if you are referring to fox.
    Well, fox have done it, shimano have done it, marzocchi has done it, and nearly every other company has done it. They have to otherwise using non oem components on a bike would cost way too much to buy, as a complete bike.
    You have to look at the big picture. Lets say Trek reaches out to shimano with an order of xxx saint deraillers @ xxx dollars. Shimano just doesn't go ahead and grab saint deraillers from the warehouse and send it out, they have a limited budget and they will do whatever it takes to reach that goal, whether it's using steel hardware vs alu, or using loose ball bearings instead of sealed bearings and so forth (it could be one of many things). With forks, the difference can be steel stanchions on the oem, steel steerer on the oem (vs alu for the non oem), less adjustability and so on. How much of the oem dffers from the non oem relies on how much chop and change to reach their target. Bike manufacturers have a target of how much they can spend on each bike, and to make it appealling they need to spec it well. Thats why often you will see entry level or mid range bikes with a high end rear derailleur. This isn't something new, it's been around for as long as I've been into bikes. The warranty info i included in my previous post is a big give away.


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    Last edited by SV11; 01-24-2013 at 09:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Maybe you would wxpect that but your post doesnt explain why. The warranty is up to the part mfr. i tried to answer this question by looking at shimano's site and couldnt. Even called shimano's warranty dept and got a noncommittal vague answer. And that is just one mfr. how you wanna bet they all handle it differently?
    If you have a receipt for a new part from a store that is an authorized dealer, they will honor the warranty. Ideally you'd just go back to the shop you got it from and they'd take care of it.

  49. #49
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    If the seatpost was scuffed and visible if I was taller than where it was set on the old bike that would be one thing, but if it's a stem then there is no problem. Do I need a box? No. Do I care if my seatpost is scratched and visible? Yes ... would I expect a discount on the seatpost...yes... on the stem...no.... should they honor the warranty? without question
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  50. #50
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    If the shop disclosed it was a take-off, then I would not care. I go to the LBS for convenience and because I like them... cheap is for the internet.

    If the only way I could get the part immediately was for that part to come off another bike, then I'd have no problem for with that. It beats waiting for an order to come in. If they throw in a discount, then great. But I would not feel entitled to one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Let's say you are buying a new bike, which is being built up piece by piece instead of bought as a complete bike.

    Let's say you determine that the shop selling it is using take offs from other bikes, and that you are charged the new part price.

    Is that something that would tick you off? Or would you figure - hey, it's not heavily used, I never would have known the difference?

    Me - I think a take off is a take off and should be disclosed as such.

    OK, so your starting from the bare frame and building piece by piece as per your instruction. The frame should be at 50% mark up and all "new" parts should be at 50%-60%. If a part you need has to be removed from a new existing bike on the floor, same deal, no discount. That oem part has the same warranty as your new in the box part.
    That oem part should be identified as such if the customer asks.
    Your "discount" is not being charged labour to remove said part and labour to replace it.
    When you leave the store with your new custom bike you leave with an itemized receipt that serves as the basis for warranty claims.
    In the case of something like a saddle swap,or any upgrade from a stock unit, the retailer should give credit for his/her cost for the item removed and subtract that from the price of the substitute.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Well, fox have done it, shimano have done it, marzocchi has done it, and nearly every other company has done it. They have to otherwise using non oem components on a bike would cost way too much to buy, as a complete bike.
    You have to look at the big picture. Lets say Trek reaches out to shimano with an order of xxx saint deraillers @ xxx dollars. Shimano just doesn't go ahead and grab saint deraillers from the warehouse and send it out, they have a limited budget and they will do whatever it takes to reach that goal, whether it's using steel hardware vs alu, or using loose ball bearings instead of sealed bearings and so forth (it could be one of many things). With forks, the difference can be steel stanchions on the oem, steel steerer on the oem (vs alu for the non oem), less adjustability and so on. How much of the oem dffers from the non oem relies on how much chop and change to reach their target. Bike manufacturers have a target of how much they can spend on each bike, and to make it appealling they need to spec it well. Thats why often you will see entry level or mid range bikes with a high end rear derailleur. This isn't something new, it's been around for as long as I've been into bikes. The warranty info i included in my previous post is a big give away.

    Rodalink


    Hmm, interesting. I have not experienced that first hand so I'll take your word for it. I bought many oem parts xtr, XT, and SLX when I visit Asia. Also swapping out same model parts out for my friends' bike at least the xtr, XT, and SLX are identical. Mine came in a plastic bag with manual, and theirs came in a retail box.

    That said, one thing I came across with Shimano was the brake rotors. The "US" version has better finish/quality than the Asian ones. It's noticeable. That's the only cost cutting I know nothing else I came across. I have no knowledge of Shimano switching bearings in their shifters and derailleurs. This would effect the products performance which can be confusing

    Thanks for the heads up
    Last edited by mimi1885; 01-25-2013 at 11:10 AM.

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    There are also oem components that differ from non oem in the way of packaging, warranty. The more expensive the bike, the more oem componentry is closer or equal to non oem components.

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    I think OEM means something different to different manufacturers. The way I understand it is, for instance Shimano makes x number of xt m780 black rear derailleurs. They all come off the same assembly line in the same factory. Shimano knows that only a certain amount of those derailleurs will be packaged for sales to distributors then on to the public. Some held back for warranty issues and Shimano knows the rest will be sold for use as original equipment on complete bikes built up by manufacturers (Specialized, Trek, etc...).

    I have seen parts that can be described as OEM but are just slightly different. The difference may only be color, but usually have a different part number. I doubt that a manufacturer would make differing parts with the exact same part number.

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    Last weekend I ordered a new XX1 drive chain. Some parts aren't in stock so my LBS has had to order them. I'm never going to see the parts in a box as they'll be installing it for me / the first time I'll see it is when I pick my bike up. Do I care if a part was taken off the s-works epic sitting in the shop? Not if I get my bike set up sooner.

    Will I have a receipt saying I bought the parts from an authorized SRAM dealer as new for warranty purposes? Yes.

    I see no issue with this if they are the same part.

    If a part is damaged that's a different issue, but parts get damaged when shipping even in your nice boxes.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    A sucker is born every minute
    Just as paranoid people who ask "what if" for all of life's decisions...

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    I have a question. I have not gone to a LBS in years, as I invested in a full toolkit pretty early in the game and assemble my own bikes and do all my own maintenance, so I don't really know how they operate.

    If I were to purchase a complete bike from an LBS, but wanted the brakes swapped out for a different model, would I be paying full purchase price for the bike, plus retail for the new brakes, but the LBS keeps the brake set taken off my bike? If so, that's messed up. If I'm paying retail for the NIB part on top of the price of the bike, I should get to keep both components. I'm probably misunderstanding some of the posts in this thread, but it sounds like this might be what happens at some shops.
    "So let's recap here:
    You asked a question.
    You got an answer.
    You proceed to make an ass out of yourself."

  58. #58
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    Apparently many people do not like the idea of the LBS being profitable... If the end result is the same for a consumer, new item, same warranty, let the shops try and stay open.

  59. #59
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    The (substitute expletive here) some people worry about. If the shop installs a part on a new bike they will give you a full warranty. Retail shops have a right to make money so they can keep their doors open.

    Lifes too short. Go ride your bike. You'll feel better.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    No there is, but if you like getting ripped off, you should really enjoy a lot of things that I take for granted
    you obviously need a thicker tinfoil hat...


  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    1. Who is "they"?
    2. Based on what?
    3. Rofl are you fricken serious? No! Bike shops must not make a profit! How dare they! Rofl.
    1. They? Uh ... the shop that sells the take off part ... hello?
    2. Question makes no sense.
    3. Yes I'm serious. The next time you head to a shop and the doors are closed because everyone is only buying online and the shop literally can not afford to stay open don't complain.

    You want a part right away? Bummer. You want that repair done overnight? More bummage. All you want is a tube? Hopefully Wal Mart is close and has it in stock.

    But of course most consumers are under the impression owning a bike shop is the most lucrative way to make money in the whole world. Small fortunes are made every day by simply opening a bike shop! Of course it helps to start with a large fortune.

    Go ride your bike. You really will feel better not worrying about trivial carp.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Let's say you are buying a new bike, which is being built up piece by piece instead of bought as a complete bike.

    Let's say you determine that the shop selling it is using take offs from other bikes, and that you are charged the new part price.

    Is that something that would tick you off? Or would you figure - hey, it's not heavily used, I never would have known the difference?

    Me - I think a take off is a take off and should be disclosed as such.
    Did this happen to you, or it's a second hand experience?

    This is pretty rare, IMO. May be not rare that the shop uses take off parts, but it's rare that the shop does not tell the customer about it, and also rare that the customer would find out. Mind sharing what shop in OC is doing this?

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    No it didnt happen but a shop tried it. I'll keep the identity to myself but let me say there are many excellent shops in oc which wouldnt do this.

    No doubt they are excellent. 3 of my bikes are bought and built in OC from the bike company, and Path bicycle. I think that kind of scenario is pretty rare.

  64. #64
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    Takeoff wheelsets are frequently sold in shops and not disclosed as such. On my last trip to Pisgah, I went into a LBS to buy a new wheel, cassette, and a few other items. The associate asked to inquire what level of part I was looking for. I asked what they had available, and he brought out a Mach 1 Sub Zero with XT hubs. He came up with an price of $100. I looked at the wheel(wasn't familiar with the rim name), saw that it had a Schrader size hole, and had an OEM(Spesh?) rim strip. I then inquired whether it was a takeoff(knowing that it surely was). The associate didn't answer directly, punched in some things in the computer and came up with a new price of $80. I bought the part because it was a temporary solution to a problem. That wheel was essentially sold twice, assuming the original buyer had to pay for his upgrade. Not disclosing or discounting seems questionable to me. I personally wouldn't do it, and expect similar ethics from those I do business with. Takeoffs are sold as takeoffs. The issue then becomes pricing. Parts like that don't always have an MSRP to begin with, and pricing is arbitrary.

    With some takeoff parts, the dealer may not be robbing parts off of builds, but sourcing leftover parts that another buyer didn't want. There will be NO full price replacement to order. This was excess stock.

    If the customer doesn't know, then it won't be a problem. If the customer finds out, then they'll know that the LBS COULD have given them a discount, while maintaining the same margin, but CHOSE to pad their margin at your expense. There in lies the rub. You are not going to feel like a valued customer, but a number on a spreadsheet. The LBS is taking a risk, and inviting the customer to take his business elsewhere.

    Lastly: I just recently purchased a bike on 'pro deal' pricing. The complete build(mid/high spec: x9, mrp, raceface, etc... across the board) cost less than the online retail price of the frame and fork alone. I assume that a LBS gets, at minimum, equivalent or better pricing. They could sell a custom build on the frame/fork and resale the drivetrain, spare parts at 100% profit. It seems questionable to me.

    On the flip side, many of the new, stocked items at my LBS(small town/old school) are in plastic bags in bins(chainrings and such), with price tags marked directly on the item. No shiny new box. Not an issue.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by OGWGFIWRT View Post
    The (substitute expletive here) some people worry about. If the shop installs a part on a new bike they will give you a full warranty. Retail shops have a right to make money so they can keep their doors open.

    Lifes too short. Go ride your bike. You'll feel better.
    The shop isn't the one who gives out warranties, it's only a shop, not a manufacturer. They don't make products, so why would they offer warranty?
    The only way you will get warranty is if you buy non oem. Why would anyone accept componenty off another bike is way beyond me, warranty/quality wise.
    For me, the major factor is having warranty, who buys stuff without warranty?

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    The shop isn't the one who gives out warranties, it's only a shop, not a manufacturer. They don't make products, so why would they offer warranty?
    The only way you will get warranty is if you buy non oem. Why would anyone accept componenty off another bike is way beyond me, warranty/quality wise.
    For me, the major factor is having warranty, who buys stuff without warranty?
    Shop ... Hi "Manufacturer", I have this (insert component here) that we, as a dealer of your products, are having a problem with. Will you help us to solve this problem?

    "Manufacturer" ... Sure what's the problem?

    Shop ... (explains problem) ...

    "Manufacturer" .. Yeah we'll take care of it as we, as a manufacturer, want to keep the customer (both shop and consumer) happy. Cheers!

    Meanwhile .. the shop takes an exact replica of the defective part off a (shudder) floor bike so the consumer can have their bike back even sooner because the shop just wants the consumer happy.

    Oh my god, another underhanded shop ploy to screw the customer and load their bank account with untold fortunes. Horrors!

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by OGWGFIWRT View Post
    Shop ... Hi "Manufacturer", I have this (insert component here) that we, as a dealer of your products, are having a problem with. Will you help us to solve this problem?

    "Manufacturer" ... Sure what's the problem?

    Shop ... (explains problem) ...

    "Manufacturer" .. Yeah we'll take care of it as we, as a manufacturer, want to keep the customer (both shop and consumer) happy. Cheers!


    LMFAO, you lose this one!
    Give up while the sun is still shining.
    Read Shimano's warranty terms and conditions...you have no idea. For oem components you go through the bike manufacturer, why is this so hard for you to understand?
    Last edited by SV11; 01-25-2013 at 10:10 PM.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    LMFAO, you lose this one!
    Give up while the sun is still shining.
    One usually has to search under a bridge to find someone of your obvious experience.

    I simply don't have the disdain and mistrust for an industry that brings such joy and pleasure to most.

    To try any discourse past this is ...

    I'm going for a ride.

  69. #69
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    Many companies especially the big ones do not deal with warranty issues directly with customers, you can ask all kinds of question and they'd be very professional and provide you with all kinds of info, but in the end you have to bring it to your lbs/dealer for warranty

    I waited a few months for my Hammerschmidt, I'd say this if one is on the demo bike and my lbs is willing to sell that one to me at retail, I'd get it

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by millargeo View Post
    Assuming the parts are unused, I couldn't care any less about this.
    yep..unused is new
    the trick is ENJOYING YOUR LIFE EACH DAY, don't waste them away wishing for better days

  71. #71
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    I've worked in shops for 15 years and I've dealt with shimano hundreds of times about warranties. I've never had an issue warranting OEM components, most times they don't even ask, let alone care. It's obvious that most of the people posting here have no idea of how it all works.

    Its like the blind leading the blind in this thread.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmeldrum26 View Post
    I've worked at shops for 15 years and I've dealt with shimano hundreds of times about warranty's. I've never had an issue warranting OEM components, most times they don't even ask. It's obvious that most people that are posting here have no idea of how it all works.

    Its like the blind leading the blind in this thread.
    If that is to be believed, then you are either bullshyting or shimano is bullshyting. No one is leading anyone, the warranty info is from shimano themselves, its nothing we made up. To be honest, I don't think you could tell the difference between oem and non oem if it was sitting right in front of you, just my point of view, there is no other way to look at it.

  73. #73
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    Honestly, I've never examined shimano's warranty policy. But in my experience its actually the bike companies that refer you to the component manufactuers when there is a warranty issue in most cases. I have never experienced shimano (or sram) denying a warranty claim based exclusively on it being an OEM product.

    When it comes to warranties there really aren't any concrete rules, atleast in my experience, despite what may be published. Half of the time it depends on who picks up the phone, whether they are having a good day or not. It sounds crazy, because it is.

    Basically, it pays-off to develop a relationship with your LBS because when something on your bike does break they will go to bat for you and make sure you are taken care of, OEM or not.
    Last edited by jmeldrum26; 01-26-2013 at 12:14 AM.

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    Well, shimano has gone on the record saying to go through bike manufacturer for warranty on oem stuff, and I do understand there are exceptions to every rule. I don't think that they have the power to deny a claim whether oem or non. Every part whether oem or non has a part number, and shimano knows if that part is oem or non, so I'm having a hard time comprehending that shimanos warranty is worth the same as toilet paper. I might have to delve deeper.
    Rodalink

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    It seems that the way things should work and the way that things do work in the bike industry are very different. I could tell you stories all day about various bike companies service departments that one day bust your balls about every detail of a warranty and then the next day, I can call with the exact same complaint and they just send a new one out no questions asked.

    At our shop we have a list of good customer services reps and bad customer service reps for various vendors. For example if I talk to say Jim at company X, he sucks, and I should just hang-up and call back in a few minutes hoping I get someone else. Or, if I call company Y, I should ask for Steve because he hooks it up. Dealing with warranties in the bike industry is somewhat of an art form, a technique is developed with years of practice.

    Yeah it's crazy, and it makes my job a PITA some days but it's just the way it works.

    Also keep in mind that the vast majority of companies never reimburse the LBS for time spent dealing with the warranty, nor the labor to remove or install it, nor the return shipping, all of that cost is put on the retailer.
    Last edited by jmeldrum26; 01-26-2013 at 01:14 AM.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmeldrum26 View Post
    It seems that the way things should work and the way that things do work in the bike industry are very different. I could tell you stories all day about various bike companies service departments that one day bust your balls about every detail of a warranty and then the next day, I can call with the exact same complaint and they just send a new one out no questions asked.

    At our shop we have a list of good customer services reps and bad customer service reps for various vendors. For example if I talk to say Jim at company X, he sucks, and I should just hang-up and call back in a few minutes hoping I get someone else. Or, if I call company Y, I should ask for Steve because he hooks it up. Dealing with warranties in the bike industry is somewhat of an art form, a technique is developed with years of practice.

    Yeah it's crazy, and it makes my job a PITA some days but it's just the way it works.

    Also keep in mind that the vast majority of companies never reimburse the LBS for time spent dealing with the warranty, nor the labor to remove or install it, nor the return shipping, all of that cost is put on the retailer.
    This is the way it works in a lot of industries, unfortunately. Some CS reps are great and some it seems, just want to be hard asses. There are reps who are empowered by their company to satisfy the customer, whatever it takes. Then there are the reps who use that empowerment to play God with your claim.

    I have been on both ends of this spectrum and it is just the way it works.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by OGWGFIWRT View Post
    One usually has to search under a bridge to find someone of your obvious experience.

    I simply don't have the disdain and mistrust for an industry that brings such joy and pleasure to most.

    To try any discourse past this is ...

    I'm going for a ride.
    Hope your ride was nice. I had a good one this morning...
    This thread is entertaining. Good work.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Well, shimano has gone on the record saying to go through bike manufacturer for warranty on oem stuff, and I do understand there are exceptions to every rule. I don't think that they have the power to deny a claim whether oem or non. Every part whether oem or non has a part number, and shimano knows if that part is oem or non, so I'm having a hard time comprehending that shimanos warranty is worth the same as toilet paper. I might have to delve deeper.
    Rodalink
    When bike retailer takes [insert oem part here] off a bike and places on new bike and rings up a sale for a new part [at this moment whether the part is oem or non oem becomes unknown as sale goes in for a few part], all parties involved see the item as a non-oem part. If the part is proprietary (Fox shocks for Specialized bikes for instance) a retailer shouldn't/wouldn't pull that part. They would only pull parts identical to new parts which they or an official retailer of.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhasdrums View Post
    When bike retailer takes [insert oem part here] off a bike and places on new bike and rings up a sale for a new part [at this moment whether the part is oem or non oem becomes unknown as sale goes in for a few part], all parties involved see the item as a non-oem part. If the part is proprietary (Fox shocks for Specialized bikes for instance) a retailer shouldn't/wouldn't pull that part. They would only pull parts identical to new parts which they or an official retailer of.
    While pulling forks off is pretty unusual, though not unheard of by any means, this is entirely inaccurate. While working at a dozen bike shops over the last 15 years I've seen many many oem only parts get pulled and set aside.

    parts in a box direct from the manufacturer are less likely to be damaged. complete bikes frequently have damaged parts, some can be bent back or otherwise repaired and not show any differences from a part fresh from the box.

    Market data shows rather convincingly that people, on average, value the information that they have about a new, fresh out of the box part that they don't have with an OEM part.

    This doesn't mean that you can't be deceived, that you will make the appropriate inquiries, that the oem part is necessarily worse, or that you'll actually get a discount every time from every shop. But the price differences is quite unmistakable in my opinion, and this is solid evidence for a people's preferences.

  80. #80
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    I manage a shop...

    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    If that is to be believed, then you are either bullshyting or shimano is bullshyting. No one is leading anyone, the warranty info is from shimano themselves, its nothing we made up. To be honest, I don't think you could tell the difference between oem and non oem if it was sitting right in front of you, just my point of view, there is no other way to look at it.
    I manage a shop and used to own a shop, and in between, worked at a third shop; and I've never bothered to read any manufacturers warranty policy...EVER!

    When a customer brings a component into the shop and requests warranty replacement, I do a bit of detective work, inspecting the part, and perhaps even the rest of the bike, searching for clues as to what went wrong. I ask questions of the rider to determine what type of use, abuse or accident a part may have experienced. With over 40 years of riding and wrenching experience, I'm pretty good at solving some of the most mysterious failures.

    After looking at the age and condition of the part and the history of usage, I ask myself, "If this was a part from my bike, would I reasonably expect a warranty replacement, or perhaps a discounted replacement?" If the answer to either of these questions is "Yes." or even "Maybe.", I call the manufacturer or distributor and request a warranty replacement or discount replacement, whichever is appropriate. Whenever the situation falls into a grey area, I give the customer the benefit of the doubt.

    I've NEVER had a warranty rep ask me if a part was O.E.M. or aftermarket, except for a couple of models of forks over the years, just to determine which replacement part(s) were necessary. (O.E.M. forks are highly likely to be dumbed down versions of aftermarket forks) In the rare case where the manufacturer won't replace something that I believe should be warrantied, I usually just replace it at the shop's expense, (if they purchased it from us), in order to keep the customer happy.

    Bottom line: no matter what the fine print in a manufacturer's warranty may read, if a part is really defective, they really don't care if it is O.E.M. or aftermarket, and will almost always (about 99.99% of the time) warranty it when needed.
    If more people rode more bikes, more places, more often, the world would be a more better place!

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandrenseren View Post
    However someone decides it's now a take off and that I can only sell it at $40 because it once sat on a display bike. So in order to make up that loss I have to ask you $110 for the $100 Brooks saddle you wanted for your new bike. Or I can refuse to refund you the full price of the original saddle, because now it's a marked down take off. Either way it gets more expensive for you.

    In short, take offs ARE new parts as long as they haven't seen any use.
    They aren't retail parts though. If someone's buying a 'new' part then it has a box, packaging, whatever else comes with it.

    Trying to sell OE parts for full retail prices is going to end with either the customer telling you to do one, or you lying and hoping they never find out, which they will. Also, a lot of OE parts aren't quite the same as the retail version, to go with saddles, a lot the time a saddle turns out to have steel rails when the boxed one's ti, that'll make a person's day.

    You should be charging $65 for the Brooks, because $65 for a brooks is still a great deal, plus $35 is more than they'll get trying to Ebay the original saddle.
    Then be honest about the pull off and take what you can get for it.

    Get $40 for the take off and you're $5 up, you haven't had to lie to anyone and both customers get what they want.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by AllMountin' View Post
    Lastly: I just recently purchased a bike on 'pro deal' pricing. The complete build(mid/high spec: x9, mrp, raceface, etc... across the board) cost less than the online retail price of the frame and fork alone. I assume that a LBS gets, at minimum, equivalent or better pricing. They could sell a custom build on the frame/fork and resale the drivetrain, spare parts at 100% profit. It seems questionable to me.
    You are mistaken. "Pro deal" or Employee purchase prices are more often than not much lower that even the shop gets for wholesale pricing. This is why there are a limited number given per year.
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

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    Quote Originally Posted by PretendGentleman View Post
    While pulling forks off is pretty unusual, though not unheard of by any means, this is entirely inaccurate. While working at a dozen bike shops over the last 15 years I've seen many many oem only parts get pulled and set aside.

    parts in a box direct from the manufacturer are less likely to be damaged. complete bikes frequently have damaged parts, some can be bent back or otherwise repaired and not show any differences from a part fresh from the box.

    Market data shows rather convincingly that people, on average, value the information that they have about a new, fresh out of the box part that they don't have with an OEM part.

    This doesn't mean that you can't be deceived, that you will make the appropriate inquiries, that the oem part is necessarily worse, or that you'll actually get a discount every time from every shop. But the price differences is quite unmistakable in my opinion, and this is solid evidence for a people's preferences.
    None of that has anything to do with anything I said. I'm sorry to hear you worked at non reputable shops that pawned off broken equipment to consumers. We'd never pull that in our shop... And again, even if the shop did, my point still stands. When the part is rung up as sold and the receipt lists the sale of a new part in the eyes of the consumer, retailer and manufacturer it is a new part. Nothing I said is inaccurate.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post


    And the posters who say this means one is against capitalism or bike shops making a proft are the kinds of tools that make discussing things on the internet tedious for no reason
    Actually, the tools that tell other people that they are making discussion tedious are the ones that are usually making the discussion tedious. I'm sure we both have reasons for our positions. Thinking I have no reason to my opinion is just a tad insulting...

    Do you inspect every part your mechanic puts on your car to make sure it came in the original packaging?

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    I wrench my own bikes so I'd never have that problem. I buy my shimano at a very good price I guess I can save a few bucks by going to his seller but I like my guy.

    If you want to save money spend money on tools and spend the time to learn it one by one. Same goes with shopping for parts, want cheap buy it onsale or used, want it now go to the good lbs.

    I do both. I find myself good lbs(s) build good relationship with them, when I need something done urgently, it's possible. I know I'd spend more at lbs but they spend more on parts than bulk buying online stores, so I'm not complaining.

    The "what if" is just academic or argument piece. It's not a standard practice, if it is for that shop pick another one.

    The title said "take offs sold as new" but the original post mentioned slightly used parts, clearly they are not the same.




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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Do ypu think it would be fair for ypur mechanic to take a part off another car and charge you as it were norml wholesale, and for him to foolishly assume that your warranty is intact?
    I bought a new Jeep Wangler Sport model and have a good relationship with the salesman. That's exactly what they did. They had a new Wrangler Rubicon that they were installing a lift, larger wheels and tires and side steps on. The springs, shocks and tires were an upgrade for my jeep (and actually gave me a 1.5" lift) and we put on the rock rails that they took of the Rubicon, too. They are all stock parts... Take-offs but still new. My warranty was not affected in any way. I got some nice upgrades at no cost to me.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Do ypu think it would be fair for ypur mechanic to take a part off another car and charge you as it were norml wholesale, and for him to foolishly assume that your warranty is intact?
    The only foolish portion of this thread is people thinking that when they get a receipt for work done to their bike or car which states they got a new [insert part name here] that somehow there's a secret database somewhere which lists that those parts have been pulled off of some other vehicle or bike.
    Again, in the eyes of the consumer, retailer and manufacturer, they will all be servicing a warranty claim based on the receipt that you hold which states you have a new part attached on the date on the receipt.

    The answer to your first question is that I don't care, I have no way of knowing, etc... Life is too short to worry about this stuff. Especially when you're holding on to a receipt that states all of the obvious things I've stated over and over again...

    THERE IS NO WAY FOR A MANUFACTURER TO KNOW IF THE PART ON THE BIKE WHICH YOU HAVE A RECEIPT FOR CAME AS A PULL OFF FROM A BIKE OR FROM A BOXED UP ITEM.

    Sorry for the caps, but apparently this concept is really difficult for some.

    I'm not arguing the ethics of it, other than stating the warranty claim will go smoothly when/if necessary. This is not foolish, this is reality talking from someone who works in the business.

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    While its unlikely, it is possible to damage a part while installing it. For that reason alone, I think that is a good enough reason to offer a discount over a part that has never been installed. That's probably less of an issue if you are one of those people that lets the LBS do all the work, but since I build my bikes myself, I'd prefer a part that was never touched by hamfisted assemblers before I got it. (A lot of bike shops actually take apart new bikes and reassemble them in order to make sure everything is correct even though the bikes are mostly together when shipped. Why? Because those guys making $2 a day in Asia don't always do the best job).

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    Quote Originally Posted by danhasdrums View Post
    When bike retailer takes [insert oem part here] off a bike and places on new bike and rings up a sale for a new part [at this moment whether the part is oem or non oem becomes unknown as sale goes in for a few part], all parties involved see the item as a non-oem part. If the part is proprietary (Fox shocks for Specialized bikes for instance) a retailer shouldn't/wouldn't pull that part. They would only pull parts identical to new parts which they or an official retailer of.
    Changing and swapping parts is where the problem usually lies. Lets say an employer took a rear derailleur off a entry level bike, lets say its XT. Becasue of the price range of the bike, the manufacturer could only spec the XT derailleur if it were specced down, using steel hardware and parts instead of alu, using cheap plastics instead of expensive....in order to meet a price point. Lets say that employer takes that XT derailleur and puts it on a high end bike, a bike that probably came with a XT derailleur that was specced the same as non oem, how would you feel if you were the buyer of that bike?
    Forks are the same, forks found on entry level bikes have less features than its non oem counterpart. I'm not saying this is the case on every single entry level fork, but this is how things have been done for a very long time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29 View Post
    While its unlikely, it is possible to damage a part while installing it. For that reason alone, I think that is a good enough reason to offer a discount over a part that has never been installed. That's probably less of an issue if you are one of those people that lets the LBS do all the work, but since I build my bikes myself, I'd prefer a part that was never touched by hamfisted assemblers before I got it. (A lot of bike shops actually take apart new bikes and reassemble them in order to make sure everything is correct even though the bikes are mostly together when shipped. Why? Because those guys making $2 a day in Asia don't always do the best job).
    When I worked in the bike department at REI in the early 90's, that is exactly what we did with every bike we put on the floor. Everything came off and reassembled.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29 View Post
    While its unlikely, it is possible to damage a part while installing it. For that reason alone, I think that is a good enough reason to offer a discount over a part that has never been installed. That's probably less of an issue if you are one of those people that lets the LBS do all the work, but since I build my bikes myself, I'd prefer a part that was never touched by hamfisted assemblers before I got it. (A lot of bike shops actually take apart new bikes and reassemble them in order to make sure everything is correct even though the bikes are mostly together when shipped. Why? Because those guys making $2 a day in Asia don't always do the best job).
    I've literally worked at a dozen bike shops all across the country and none of them did this to any bikes whatsoever. I've been at shops that sold $10k+ roadbikes or $8k Mountain bikes and nobody disassembles them other than to add upgrades. While I don't disagree that some shops do this, most do not.

    The thing about OEM parts is that you don't install it, the mfg does. Bikes get beat up during shipping.

  92. #92
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    There is some truthful info on this thread but it is buried in a mire of disinformation perpetuated by those that obviously have no personal experience in a retail bike shop or in the bike industry in general. I will never say that all shops/manufacturers are perfect, but I know most try their best to provide a level of service that satisfies all parties involved. If any have had a bad experience well that happens from time to time but to carry that anger all the time is unhealthy.

    The bike shops aren't out to get you, you are not being stalked by an industry spy so they can tell how to rip you off better, a new take off part on your bike is still new and absolutely positively comes with a warranty. But I guess haters gonna hate and paranoia will destroy ya.

    Nobody's winning here. Charlie Sheen wouldn't even win here.

    Time for a ride.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    A dishonest practice is a dishonest practice. It isn't paranoia to call it one. Please go have that ride, and find a new line of work.
    You let a less than honest shop (which exist) try to pull one over on you but, even though you didn't get burned, for some reason you won't let it go. I guess whining on a public forum ad nauseum helps your bruised ego somehow.

    Life's way too short for this carp, that's all I'm saying.

    Sorry for being so snarky but sometimes it is just too deep in here. As Cartman might say .... "Sc*$w you guys, I'm going for a ride.".

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    Those poor bike shops losing their 100-125- 200% markups

    I build new engines that their life expectancy before replacing parts is measured in mins and seconds. 4-5 miles max......

    These engines are very expensive 50-90K and "take out or off" parts costs many Ks of dollars. Once it is built it is done. Any part coming off or out is used and discounted 50-60% or scrapped for metal value.

    Same for a bike, if it was installed and fit it was tested to used by the buyer, it is now a used part. PERIOD OVER AND DONE.... sell it used and reduce your 200-300% markup....

    One guy compared trading a $50 saddle for a $100 dollar saddle and charging the customer the difference of 50 bucks.

    That seems somewhat fair, but if it takes the different saddle to sell the bike change the saddle and sell it.

    Get the 30-50 bucks from selling the other saddle.

    and people wonder why this country is going down a big verticle hole.....

  95. #95
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    This is quite pointless really. OP said it, it almost happened, but it didn't. Plus, the reference is uncleared, take offs or lightly used? If some shop is trying to sell used as new then it's not just unethical, it's illegal.

    Good to know that parts come with SN# or batch #, so if I'm skeptical about the transaction, I can easily find out and proven shop's guilt. I don't know of any business owners would want to take this kind of high risk/low rewards situation.

    If you tell me they are trying to pull a fast on on fake knock offs, then there's a small possibility because the profit would be almost 90%. Scamming random customers for a few bucks and risk having lawsuits, and having business lic taken away, is just stupid.

    There are so many place to make the money service, accessories, food/drink, etc. Profit margin, not mark up is wider on the cheaper stuffs including hybrid, and cruiser bikes than the highend ones including highend parts.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Well, actually, I wanted to get others thoughts. What I didn;t expect were people who refused to see the issue, because they wanted to continue the practice at their own shops. I would think and still do think that this is an obvious bad practice, not the worst thing ever, but not straight either.

    Next time you feel life is too short to read something, don't. You= Cartman, that I buy
    You want to get others thoughts but you won't listen to them. There is no issue to see, it's all in your mind. There really is no secret society meetings where all the retail bike shops in an area get together and scheme a diabolical plot to rip the consumer off by selling them take off parts. There isn't even a plan within a singular shop to rip you off. You can't continue a practice when it was never started. You are simply deluding yourself.

    When I say life is too short I'm saying isn't your life too short to be OCD about anything, especially something that doesn't exist?

    I read this thread for it's fictional and comedic value. 200% to 300% mark up on parts? That is simply ignorance. It's a hoot.

    And ... me = Cartman? That was just hurtful. Go put this dunce cap on and sit in the corner.



    And ... if you have a multitude of problems with several shops, maybe the problem doesn't lie with the shops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    It is still done.
    Oh hell yes, without a doubt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Okay, fine, you think Im paranoid. I can live with that . if it's all so pointless, feel free to go elaewhere. I still think you = eric Cartman.
    What's the fun in going elaewhere?

    If I = Eric Cartman then you must respect my authoritay.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    I am convinced that some of the posts on this thread are from (what I consider) less than totally honest bike store dudes who are just peeved that this thread exists.

    Take this one for example.

    Your bolded statement is simply false. Parts have serial numbers. Further, as pointed out repeatedly, EOM and retail parts are often different. EVEN IF YOU SAY IT IN ALL CAPS. Get it? How bout now? Anything?

    And that doesn't address the real problem - the shop is charging for a new retail part, when it isn't.

    Sorry, fail.
    You think Shimano has a database that lists all parts by serial number and whether they went in a packaged box or if they went to Specialized to go on a bike? And wasn't this originally about a stem? So, you think SRAM has all of their truvativ stems listed by serial number and whether they went in a plastic little bag to go to a shop or instead went to a manufacturer to go on a bike? AND, you also think they reference these database when we have to do a warranty on an item???
    Well, they don't. You can keep calling me, and others liars, but you're coming from a position of having no experience in this industry and telling people that to work in it that they are liars...
    And then you get mad because you don't like the responses and instead only agree with and accept the testimony of other people who don't work in the industry?
    Interesting...
    For what it's worth, if I had a guy in the shop needing a part. I'd offer him a part off the bike at our regular price or I'd offer him the option to order a new one and wait and let him decide how he'd like to go if we didn't have it stock.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhasdrums View Post
    You think Shimano has a database that lists all parts by serial number and whether they went in a packaged box or if they went to Specialized to go on a bike?
    Actually, I think so, but I doubt that we'd(consumer) have any access to it. However if the material, or something fail on an epic proportion they'd know exactly which batch(es) to recall to minimized liability

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