View Poll Results: Should Rich sink major $ into his clapped out Clinton era rice burner or bicycles?

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35. This poll is closed
  • Oh, hellz no! Someone needs to show those V6 Accord driving soccer moms on their way to the grocery store who owns these streets and Rich is just the man to do it.

    6 17.14%
  • Bike > car. Quit putting lipstick on a pig and get the mountain bike of your dreams. But not with a motor. ĎCause that would no longer be mountain biking, it would be ebiking and youíre too young for that. Ride your current tires long enough and theyíll become semi-slicks for free.

    11 31.43%
  • Time to get excited, Rich. Iíve got one word for you: Steelgravelbike!

    4 11.43%
  • Ha! You canít fool me! Clinton lost the election to that reality TV guy with weird hair that always seems mad at everyone.

    5 14.29%
  • Use the money to throw the biggest mtbr.com kegger ev-ar! Shoot, sell the car and you can pick up an additional PBR six-pack for Finch.

    14 40.00%
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  1. #1
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    Should Rich sink money into his car or bicycles?

    Time to help a brother out. Our friend Rich posted about his plans to sink major dollars into his clapped out Clinton era rice burner*. Is this a wise investment or should he put the money toward a new bike instead? For reference: Vehicles you've really enjoyed and loved

    *my last seven cars have been Japanese, no offense intended.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  2. #2
    Contains no juice.
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    PBR comes in six-packs?
    At least you got a nice boat out of the deal.


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  3. #3
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    I vote new bike and new GoPro.

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  4. #4
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    This sounds like the intro to an episode of Soap.

  5. #5
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    90's were the golden age of performance cars for the every-man. Nowadays even a turbo 4cyl Mustang or Accord will wipe the floor with a VR-4, but the VR-4 is still a better car when you look at the big picture of the car industry.

  6. #6
    Life's a Garden, dig it!
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    Ya know, I'm a car guy... A Mitsu.? Just no! The last vehicle that Mitsubishi built with any quality whatsoever was the Zero.
    "The maturity of an 8 year-old boy coupled with the insecurity of a teen aged girl."

  7. #7
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    Put all you got into the 3000GT, ride a wallgoose.

  8. #8
    Self Appointed Judge&Jury
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    Letís not all be Richards and tell Rich what he needs to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  9. #9
    Bicycles aren't motorized
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    Those are cool cars and even dropping 10k on it is cheaper than any new ride.
    You meet the craziest people riding e-bikes!

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  10. #10
    Contains no juice.
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    I guess I'll be the one to say it: hookers and blow.

    Should Rich sink money into his car or bicycles?-hookers.jpg

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    Last edited by Finch Platte; 07-11-2018 at 04:11 PM. Reason: Screw you, Trump!
    At least you got a nice boat out of the deal.


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  11. #11
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    "Should Rich sink major $ into his clapped out Clinton era rice burner or bicycles?"

    If he has to choose, he's not Rich.

  12. #12
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    Anyone who didn't vote for the last option clearly didn't read them all.
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  13. #13
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    Par-tay!
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  14. #14
    One ring to mash them all
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    Who the F is Rich?
    "Did you really think you could call up the Devil and ask him to behave?"
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  15. #15
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  16. #16
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    I got confused and voted #4. My first participation in an mtbr poll so that's cool.
    It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.

  17. #17
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    That was a great car, but I have to think the support is nowhere near as good as compared to a 2002+ WRX or Evo. The 3000GT was great in it's day along with the Supra, 300ZX, Celica GT4, and all of those cars of the same era, but it gets more and more expensive as you see to keep the car going and if you want to do it right, it's going to be a major drain. At some point, you'd get the car back into a pretty drive-able condition, but it's thousands and thousands of dollars to do so.

    IME, never buy a used car more than 10 years old, and even 10 years old is pushing it. A reasonable used vehicle is around 5 years old. I'm not saying you should dump your car at 5 years (although some of these modern electronics-cars are questionable), but your car sounds like the equivalent of buying a car more than 10 years old. It's going to have issues. If you are extremely savvy, with access to a lift, tools, parts, time, etc., it might not be so bad, but for most people, it ends up being a hole to throw money down and the older the car, the more variables that you can't control.

    In other words, you need a lot of money to really do it right and keep an older car running well. It's not going to economical, it's going to be because you love it and it deserves it.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  18. #18
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    The car.

    Says the man who just bought a grand worth of suspension parts for his 93 Civic. Hardrace lower rear arms, adjustable front and rear upper arms and bushings, PCI trailing arm bearings, ASR subframe brace, ITR rear swaybar, OEM Honda tie rods and bearings, Goodridge S/S brakelines and new axles...

    Next up better coilovers, removing the sunroof and replacing with a carbon fiber panel, changing to manual doors, wider fenders to fit 10in wide wheels with Hoosiers, carbon hood and then on to build the motor for boost.


    Modern cars suck to drive anyway.
    Last edited by 93EXCivic; 07-12-2018 at 11:54 AM.

  19. #19
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    If It was a 90s rx7, Supra TT or NSX it would be worth it. They have held their value very well and are still supported but the aftermarket. I would put the money down on a Foucus RS. It's a German Ford/Mazda platform that would eat the VR4 in every way and has a nice hatch. Ford is selling cars cheap right now since they took a big economic hit. Only the Focus and Mustang will be produced the rest will be trucks.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    That was a great car, but I have to think the support is nowhere near as good as compared to a 2002+ WRX or Evo. The 3000GT was great in it's day along with the Supra, 300ZX, Celica GT4, and all of those cars of the same era, but it gets more and more expensive as you see to keep the car going and if you want to do it right, it's going to be a major drain. At some point, you'd get the car back into a pretty drive-able condition, but it's thousands and thousands of dollars to do so.

    IME, never buy a used car more than 10 years old, and even 10 years old is pushing it. A reasonable used vehicle is around 5 years old. I'm not saying you should dump your car at 5 years (although some of these modern electronics-cars are questionable), but your car sounds like the equivalent of buying a car more than 10 years old. It's going to have issues. If you are extremely savvy, with access to a lift, tools, parts, time, etc., it might not be so bad, but for most people, it ends up being a hole to throw money down and the older the car, the more variables that you can't control.

    In other words, you need a lot of money to really do it right and keep an older car running well. It's not going to economical, it's going to be because you love it and it deserves it.
    While I generally agree with you for most vehicles, I have a 2005 Tacoma that I might just replace the engine on when it's done. The resale on Tacomas is astronomical and it appears to be much cheaper to just dump money into an old one like mine than get a later model for $30K+.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    Modern cars suck to drive anyway.
    I watched a TV show where they used a computer to hack a modern car and turn the engine off and apply the brakes. It was rather creepy to think that someone else could gain control of your car.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mack_turtle View Post
    Anyone who didn't vote for the last option clearly didn't read them all.
    My sentiments exactly.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  23. #23
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    Man, I took the time to set up this poll and you guys and gals took the time to vote and comment and Rich hasn't even taken the time to drop by and thank us.

    Or maybe he's out buying the kegs?
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Man, I took the time to set up this poll and you guys and gals took the time to vote and comment and Rich hasn't even taken the time to drop by and thank us.

    Or maybe he's out buying the kegs?
    Maybe we should poll what keg Rich should buy?
    Focus on technique and save the puking for later. - L. McCormack

  25. #25
    BOOM goes the dynamite!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    The car.

    Says the man who just bought a grand worth of suspension parts for his 93 Civic. Hardrace lower rear arms, adjustable front and rear upper arms and bushings, PCI trailing arm bearings, ASR subframe brace, ITR rear swaybar, OEM Honda tie rods and bearings, Goodridge S/S brakelines and new axles...

    Next up better coilovers, removing the sunroof and replacing with a carbon fiber panel, changing to manual doors, wider fenders to fit 10in wide wheels with Hoosiers, carbon hood and then on to build the motor for boost.


    Modern cars suck to drive anyway.
    That reminds me. I saw an old Cutlass with a lift kit and ~30" rims. I would have taken a picture, but didn't wanna get shot.

    (for example purposes, not the actual one but looked like this model year, rust included)

    Should Rich sink money into his car or bicycles?-oldsmobile-cutlass-supreme.jpg

  26. #26
    BOOM goes the dynamite!
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Man, I took the time to set up this poll and you guys and gals took the time to vote and comment and Rich hasn't even taken the time to drop by and thank us.

    Or maybe he's out buying the kegs?
    I, for one, would like to say thanks. Best poll evar!

  27. #27
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    I voted for number 1.

    One of these years I'll ride a 'nice' bike, but it's my skills that need improvement, not the bike.


    Case in point, and I'll ask more advice about this later in a different post for the bottom paragraph:

    For downhill times on various trails, a hydraulic brake upgrade helped a lot, like 20% faster. Going from either 26x1.95 or 27.5x2.1 to 26x2.4 and 27.5x2.5 cut down downhill times another 10-20%. Going to 26x2.8 cut it down ANOTHER 10% from the 2.5 tire. Putting the seat down helped a few percentage points as well. Air fork helped get times down roughly 10-12%.

    Now I'm not saying downhill times are everything but they are very useful to see how a component change can affect your performance. And my performance is pretty good now, I'm going downhill as fast as I'd like, no complaints.

    But there is a certain linked trail set near my home, and I just cannot figure it out for getting a better time. Nothing helps with the above component changes. I've tried all kinds of tire swaps, technique changes, nothing will help the downhill time. Later this year I'll post a video of the downhill trail system and you guys can hopefully help me see where to improve. The only upgrade I think that will help would be a lighter 26-27 lb bike (my main bike is currently 33 lbs).
    Pierced from below, souls of my treacherous past

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Man, I took the time to set up this poll and you guys and gals took the time to vote and comment and Rich hasn't even taken the time to drop by and thank us.

    Or maybe he's out buying the kegs?

    I just replied. Busy at work. Will troll back soon.
    Pierced from below, souls of my treacherous past

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Letís not all be Richards and tell Rich what he needs to do.

    So the one guy that I would actually listen to for car advice doesn't provide any advice.
    Pierced from below, souls of my treacherous past

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    I guess I'll be the one to say it: hookers and blow.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Blow is overrated, glorified aspirin if you ask me.

    Hookers. Does a massage count as that?
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    I voted for number 1.
    Well that's the only vote that really matters.

    I haven't voted yet. But I did allow multiple selections so I may take advantage of that. Bikes and beer, that's what I'm thinking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    The last vehicle that Mitsubishi built with any quality whatsoever was the Zero.
    You sure?

    I'm thinkin' they had air-frame issues.

    Half of 'em couldn't make it back to the air field without crashing into something.
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  33. #33
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    I loved cars when I was younger. Now they just suck money away from other, better uses.

    F the car. Get something cheap and reliable and buy more bikes.

  34. #34
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    My ex fought me over buying a new vs used car. So, we ended up with an $18,000 Ford Fiesta (plus interest of course). When we split, she said "I'm keeping the truck".

    Okay, fine. So now I am doing catch up maintenance on the recently paid off Fiesta. If I spend say, $1000 a year on that car to keep it in good shape, I'm still way ahead of the curve compared to buying a new car to replace it. Hell, even spending extra on the Ford Performance suspension ($300 vs the $100 I need for rear shocks only) is still cheaper than a single car payment!

    So, in other words, let Dick spend where he wants. I'm saving up for two new SWorks bikes, just maintenance repairs on the Fiesta...

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DIRTJUNKIE again.

  35. #35
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    Finally got to see the poll - lol Chaz!

    Naturally, I had to vote for 3 - Richj will understand.

    But really 5 is where is at! (but there is a tie!)
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by matadorCE View Post
    90's were the golden age of performance cars for the every-man. Nowadays even a turbo 4cyl Mustang or Accord will wipe the floor with a VR-4, but the VR-4 is still a better car when you look at the big picture of the car industry.
    4 Cylinder Mustang 0-60 is 5.2. Accord V6 is I think 5.8 or 5.9. My car stock is 5.3. However, since I don't launch off the line, it can be easy to be caught flat footed by other V-6 cars, SUV's, minivans, etc. Hopefully that will be partially solved by the dyno tuning later.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    Who the F is Rich?
    He's the guy pretending to be tuckertj, or maybe it's the other way around.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    That was a great car, but I have to think the support is nowhere near as good as compared to a 2002+ WRX or Evo. The 3000GT was great in it's day along with the Supra, 300ZX, Celica GT4, and all of those cars of the same era, but it gets more and more expensive as you see to keep the car going and if you want to do it right, it's going to be a major drain. At some point, you'd get the car back into a pretty drive-able condition, but it's thousands and thousands of dollars to do so.

    IME, never buy a used car more than 10 years old, and even 10 years old is pushing it. A reasonable used vehicle is around 5 years old. I'm not saying you should dump your car at 5 years (although some of these modern electronics-cars are questionable), but your car sounds like the equivalent of buying a car more than 10 years old. It's going to have issues. If you are extremely savvy, with access to a lift, tools, parts, time, etc., it might not be so bad, but for most people, it ends up being a hole to throw money down and the older the car, the more variables that you can't control.

    In other words, you need a lot of money to really do it right and keep an older car running well. It's not going to economical, it's going to be because you love it and it deserves it.

    If you don't mind, I'm going to completely dismiss the above advice, and shop around for an E46 2000-2006 BMW M3 for my wife (hardtop, stick shift). They are surprisingly undervalued. You get a 333 HP racecar engine with an 8000 rpm redline, that literally sounds like a brass symphony, for $12,000. Most are still in good condition.
    Pierced from below, souls of my treacherous past

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    While I generally agree with you for most vehicles, I have a 2005 Tacoma that I might just replace the engine on when it's done. The resale on Tacomas is astronomical and it appears to be much cheaper to just dump money into an old one like mine than get a later model for $30K+.

    I spent about 10 hours a few years ago doing the math about new vs. used.

    The cutoff for deciding between new and used, from a resale and maintenance/repair expense point of view (NOT from an I love this car point of view, just by the numbers, no emotion) is $25,000. What that means is that below $25,000, it's better to buy new because the monthly payment and warranty savings will end up costing the same or a bit less than continuing to drive something used. If the new car however is over $25,000, then the larger monthly payment will more than negate the warranty, and you start paying a lot more for new than used. So for a nice car you buy used, kinda like a lot of people on here buy nice bikes used. For a cheaper car it's fine to buy new.
    Pierced from below, souls of my treacherous past

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    Finally got to see the poll - lol Chaz!

    Naturally, I had to vote for 3 - Richj will understand.

    But really 5 is where is at! (but there is a tie!)

    I was all set to ride on gravel again and the security guards last Wednesday told me to turn around. I was like 50 feet away from the gravel lol. Oh well, time to go back to dirt.
    Pierced from below, souls of my treacherous past

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    If you don't mind, I'm going to completely dismiss the above advice, and shop around for an E46 2000-2006 BMW M3 for my wife (hardtop, stick shift). They are surprisingly undervalued. You get a 333 HP racecar engine with an 8000 rpm redline, that literally sounds like a brass symphony, for $12,000. Most are still in good condition.
    Last M3 that can be worked on by a shade tree. Make sure it has a metal bladed water pump.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    If you don't mind, I'm going to completely dismiss the above advice, and shop around for an E46 2000-2006 BMW M3 for my wife (hardtop, stick shift). They are surprisingly undervalued. You get a 333 HP racecar engine with an 8000 rpm redline, that literally sounds like a brass symphony, for $12,000. Most are still in good condition.
    Violates the 10 year rule. A car more than 10 years old is going to be a money pit unless you somehow find some kind of unicorn, but you'll be trying to convince yourself it's a unicorn when it's really a donkey.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Violates the 10 year rule. A car more than 10 years old is going to be a money pit unless you somehow find some kind of unicorn, but you'll be trying to convince yourself it's a unicorn when it's really a donkey.
    Depends on the car. An older car with low mileage is what you want to look for if not spending a lot of money. A couple of years ago we were looking for a car for our daughter. In our price range, around $6000, all the Hondas, Toyotas and Subarus were really high mileage and pretty worn. Then we found a 2003 Infiniti I35 with less than a 100,000 miles on it. Full leather, sun/moon roof, etc; all the maintenance records. There's a small crease in one of the rear doors but all in all, a very nice car. I've had to replace an electrical plug-in module and had the power steering go out and it doesn't get driven a lot, but it's also depreciating at a pretty low rate at this point.

    Trying to figure out what to do with my 12 year old Forester with 178,000 miles on it, though. Hoping to keep it going for a few more years without spending a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
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  44. #44
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    There will always be exceptions to the rules. A 10+ year old Jeep Cherokee XJ will be cheap to own and maintain because the model year was the same for so long. And it was very reliable.

    Another one is a well maintained Lexus ls400 the car will rust around its drive train before needing major work.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    There will always be exceptions to the rules. A 10+ year old Jeep Cherokee XJ will be cheap to own and maintain because the model year was the same for so long. And it was very reliable.

    Another one is a well maintained Lexus ls400 the car will rust around its drive train before needing major work.
    10+?

    Time is flying by, isnít it? 10+ is an understatement for an XJ

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    That was a great car, but I have to think the support is nowhere near as good as compared to a 2002+ WRX or Evo. The 3000GT was great in it's day along with the Supra, 300ZX, Celica GT4, and all of those cars of the same era, but it gets more and more expensive as you see to keep the car going and if you want to do it right, it's going to be a major drain. At some point, you'd get the car back into a pretty drive-able condition, but it's thousands and thousands of dollars to do so.

    IME, never buy a used car more than 10 years old, and even 10 years old is pushing it. A reasonable used vehicle is around 5 years old. I'm not saying you should dump your car at 5 years (although some of these modern electronics-cars are questionable), but your car sounds like the equivalent of buying a car more than 10 years old. It's going to have issues. If you are extremely savvy, with access to a lift, tools, parts, time, etc., it might not be so bad, but for most people, it ends up being a hole to throw money down and the older the car, the more variables that you can't control.

    In other words, you need a lot of money to really do it right and keep an older car running well. It's not going to economical, it's going to be because you love it and it deserves it.
    10 years old is generally the sweet spot for when depreciation really slows down. I can buy a 10 year old car, drive it for 3 years, and then roll it off a bridge into the river and be out less than what a new car depreciates the day you drive it off the lot.

    Itís also way easier than anyone thinks to buy a $1500-$2000 car that has another 5 years left in it. Even a 5 year old used car will depreciate that much in 2 years. And, both will need maintenance.

    My Ranger is about to explode. But, Iíve been driving it for 4 years. Iím less than $1400 into it all in, and that includes brand new tires. And it certainly wasnít anything special or hard to find

    On the other hand, cars keep getting safer and more comfortable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NesquikNinja View Post
    10+?

    Time is flying by, isnít it? 10+ is an understatement for an XJ
    Yeah, flying by. Looking to get another one for myself and one for my daughter.

  48. #48
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    Speed limit is 55mph, 75 on the interstate. There are no speed limits on mtb trails around here.

    Cars are a necessary evil but otherwise a total waste of money. Put as little as possible into the car and save the rest for the good stuff like bikes.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by NesquikNinja View Post
    10 years old is generally the sweet spot for when depreciation really slows down. I can buy a 10 year old car, drive it for 3 years, and then roll it off a bridge into the river and be out less than what a new car depreciates the day you drive it off the lot.

    Itís also way easier than anyone thinks to buy a $1500-$2000 car that has another 5 years left in it. Even a 5 year old used car will depreciate that much in 2 years. And, both will need maintenance.

    My Ranger is about to explode. But, Iíve been driving it for 4 years. Iím less than $1400 into it all in, and that includes brand new tires. And it certainly wasnít anything special or hard to find

    On the other hand, cars keep getting safer and more comfortable.
    5 years ago We bought a 03 Toyota Matrix XRS same 2zz motor used in the Lotus Elise. We put 200,000 mile on it. The motor is still strong but needs a full suspension overhaul. So We bought the exact same car but an 05. Instead lol.

  50. #50
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    eek. Have many people worked on 3000's?

    They're... not good. To put it lightly. The 3000gt was a showcase car. It wasnt designed to actually work well, mitsu made it to put on display how much garbage they could pack into a car, reliability and function be damned. Its ULTRA heavy, and its not designed around being ultra heavy. Its like adding a 2000 pound lead weight into the trunk of a camry and seeing how it goes.

    Want a overlooked japanese 90's car? An MR2 turbo can be had for under $5k, and they reliably and consistently pull off 12 second 1/4 miles with little more than a boost controller pushing ~17psi. 200k miles is easy. Parts are cheap. Handling is... spirited, but good enough to competitively track race pretty successfully.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    eek. Have many people worked on 3000's?

    They're... not good. To put it lightly. The 3000gt was a showcase car. It wasnt designed to actually work well, mitsu made it to put on display how much garbage they could pack into a car, reliability and function be damned. Its ULTRA heavy, and its not designed around being ultra heavy. Its like adding a 2000 pound lead weight into the trunk of a camry and seeing how it goes.

    Want a overlooked japanese 90's car? An MR2 turbo can be had for under $5k, and they reliably and consistently pull off 12 second 1/4 miles with little more than a boost controller pushing ~17psi. 200k miles is easy. Parts are cheap. Handling is... spirited, but good enough to competitively track race pretty successfully.
    I've had both a 1st and 2nd gen MR2. You are very correct.
    I'm looking for a 3rd gen now since my motor and trans is a direct swap. The MR2 turbo was a Porsche killer. Better tires and shocks it was an awesome track car.

  52. #52
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    OK here is "THE" trail that I need help with. As mentioned above, having decent hydraulic brakes, 2.5 to 2.8 inch tires up front, seat down, air fork, all of that has helped my downhill times enough that I'm pretty happy riding normal downhill stuff (not AM stuff with big drops and jumps, etc.)

    But the links below are to 'one of those' trails, where no matter what I do I can't break my previous time of 7:00 for 1.35 miles (11.6 mph avg). 300 feet downhill, but 7125 feet total, as in 95% of the ride is sideways with a very modest decline, or even sometimes uphill. Hence the relatively slow mph average. A real XC course, in other words! I've tried seat up, seat down, fork rigid, fork unlocked, staying in 5th gear (17t) and switching chainrings 1-2, or staying in the 2nd chainring the whole time.

    Tire combinations on a 27.5 hardtail:
    Front 26x2.4, 26x2.5, 26x2.8, 27.5x2.5. Best is 26x2.8. 27.5x2.5 is a very close 2nd.
    Rear 26x2.5, 27.5x2.35. Best is 27.5x2.35 by far.

    All of those experimental changes and the times always run 7:00 to 7:40. The links below did it in 7:10 with the 27.5x2.5 up front (the 26x2.8 is slightly faster if the 27.5x2.35 is in back, it's SLOWER with the 26x2.5 in back).

    On the positive side, about 20 seconds after I stopped filming at the bottom (which is about 50 feet up from the real bottom), some guy yells 'coming down', so I get out of the way. I figured he was going to do a nice clean turn where I stopped and shut down the camera. Nope. He washes out the front tire and has to stop. Then he passes me and has to get off the bike for a 1 foot drop. I can usually make that drop slowly if I have a tall enough tire on. I assume he's a beginner too because it looked like he rode a bit worse than I did lol. But it could have been his 1st time down this trail, it's about my 60th. Bottom line, his bike was at least $2000. Mine is $700. I'm learning. But I do need advice on this trail. However, when you see that I really slow down for the turns with loose dirt, don't underestimate that dirt. I've tried going faster, making a sharper turn, etc., and a quickly lose the back end of the bike, it flies out wide.

    Maybe I need a real + bike to do this trail right, or the opposite: a lightweight XC bike. You decide.

    https://youtu.be/txBCaK_uJgw
    https://youtu.be/DwL6DV9CmvY
    https://youtu.be/MheCrCDgI2A
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Violates the 10 year rule. A car more than 10 years old is going to be a money pit unless you somehow find some kind of unicorn, but you'll be trying to convince yourself it's a unicorn when it's really a donkey.
    The average car I've had over 10 years, along with info. about wife's, friends, relatives, is that if it's not a performance car the average repair/maintenance per year is roughly $1500, assuming 8000-12000 miles/year. That's $125/month. There is no new car out there with a $125/month payment plan. Now my car's repair/maintenance was closer to $4k/yr with an average back then of 17,000 miles/year. If you bring that down to 12,000 miles/yr, that's pro-rated down to $2500 repair/maintenance per year, around $1000 more than a regular car. Even $4k/yr repair/maintenance for used will only get you a $333/month new car, barely a $12-15K new car.

    Do the math. Oh wait, I just did it.
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  54. #54
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    Too much we can't see to say for sure.

    On a more xc type course with climbing as well as downhill, the vast majority of your time comes from climbing. Second on the list are corners. So if you want to go faster, #1 thing you can do to improve is going to be to work harder on the climbs, and that takes better fitness, which will take time.

    To corner better, there are a lot of factors. Tire width is probably going to be a minimal factor compared to the others. First and foremost is technique. Since this is POV footage, we can't see your position on the bike, but I'll hedge my bets that you can get better. Everybody can corner better than they do currently. By far, this is going to be the area you can improve the most.

    Things that will absolutely help include a tread pattern optimized for improved cornering traction in the conditions you're dealing with. Width is less of an issue than the tread and rubber compound. Cheap tires with hard rubber compounds aren't going to grip as well as possible. They'll last awhile, but meh. An open-ish tread with good side knobs to bite through the loose stuff on the surface will also help a lot.

    Good suspension set up well will keep your tires in contact with the ground, and therefore better traction. Tire pressure at the optimal pressure for the trail and conditions will do much the same thing (but won't compensate for crap suspension that's not set up well). Under these sorts of conditions, a wider tire with less aggressive tread will allow you to float over the loose stuff, rather than biting through it. That will encourage you to slide out. Cornering traction/stability is a big part of why I like a more aggressive tire optimized for lateral traction up front.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    The average car I've had over 10 years, along with info. about wife's, friends, relatives, is that if it's not a performance car the average repair/maintenance per year is roughly $1500
    My car is 11yrs old, purchased new and paid off, averaging about 8,000mi/yr and maintenance is WAY less than that per yr. Prob closer to $500. Initial purchase price was around $17k, so a fairly inexpensive car.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    OK here is "THE" trail that I need help with. As mentioned above, having decent hydraulic brakes, 2.5 to 2.8 inch tires up front, seat down, air fork, all of that has helped my downhill times enough that I'm pretty happy riding normal downhill stuff (not AM stuff with big drops and jumps, etc.)

    But the links below are to 'one of those' trails, where no matter what I do I can't break my previous time of 7:00 for 1.35 miles (11.6 mph avg). 300 feet downhill, but 7125 feet total, as in 95% of the ride is sideways with a very modest decline, or even sometimes uphill. Hence the relatively slow mph average. A real XC course, in other words! I've tried seat up, seat down, fork rigid, fork unlocked, staying in 5th gear (17t) and switching chainrings 1-2, or staying in the 2nd chainring the whole time.

    Tire combinations on a 27.5 hardtail:
    Front 26x2.4, 26x2.5, 26x2.8, 27.5x2.5. Best is 26x2.8. 27.5x2.5 is a very close 2nd.
    Rear 26x2.5, 27.5x2.35. Best is 27.5x2.35 by far.

    All of those experimental changes and the times always run 7:00 to 7:40. The links below did it in 7:10 with the 27.5x2.5 up front (the 26x2.8 is slightly faster if the 27.5x2.35 is in back, it's SLOWER with the 26x2.5 in back).

    On the positive side, about 20 seconds after I stopped filming at the bottom (which is about 50 feet up from the real bottom), some guy yells 'coming down', so I get out of the way. I figured he was going to do a nice clean turn where I stopped and shut down the camera. Nope. He washes out the front tire and has to stop. Then he passes me and has to get off the bike for a 1 foot drop. I can usually make that drop slowly if I have a tall enough tire on. I assume he's a beginner too because it looked like he rode a bit worse than I did lol. But it could have been his 1st time down this trail, it's about my 60th. Bottom line, his bike was at least $2000. Mine is $700. I'm learning. But I do need advice on this trail. However, when you see that I really slow down for the turns with loose dirt, don't underestimate that dirt. I've tried going faster, making a sharper turn, etc., and a quickly lose the back end of the bike, it flies out wide.

    Maybe I need a real + bike to do this trail right, or the opposite: a lightweight XC bike. You decide.

    https://youtu.be/txBCaK_uJgw
    https://youtu.be/DwL6DV9CmvY
    https://youtu.be/MheCrCDgI2A
    Wider tires will alost always slow you down on trails that need peddling. More aggressive tread on s 2.3-2.4 would probably be better.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    I've had both a 1st and 2nd gen MR2. You are very correct.
    I'm looking for a 3rd gen now since my motor and trans is a direct swap. The MR2 turbo was a Porsche killer. Better tires and shocks it was an awesome track car.

    Fastest stock MR2 Turbo was 0-60 in 6.1 seconds. Much lighter than my car, but almost a second slower to 60 mph. Incorrect. But it's OK, now in 2018 you can always call that stat fake news.


    BTW curb weights for common 6-cylinder 2+2 cars out there compared with mine, call it fake news if you must:

    Ford Mustang V-6, RWD 3525 lbs
    BMW M4 I-6, RWD 3525 lbs
    Chevrolet Camaro V-6, RWD 3650 lbs
    Alfa Romeo Giulia V-6, AWD 3650 lbs

    3000GT VR-4 V-6, AWD 3750 lbs

    Mercedes AMG C450 V-6, AWD 3850 lbs
    Infiniti Q50 V-6, RWD 3900 lbs
    Dodge Challenger V-6, RWD 4100 lbs
    Audi S5 V-6, AWD 4100 lbs
    Porsche Panamera V-6, AWD 4125 lbs
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  58. #58
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    Love those curb weights. Damn, cars have gotten heavy.

    It's funny, everyone calls my '67 GTO a tank, but the curb weight is 3540 with a 360 HP, 400 cu. in. V8 and automatic transmission.
    "The maturity of an 8 year-old boy coupled with the insecurity of a teen aged girl."

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Love those curb weights. Damn, cars have gotten heavy.

    It's funny, everyone calls my '67 GTO a tank, but the curb weight is 3540 with a 360 HP, 400 cu. in. V8 and automatic transmission.
    Have you tried helium in the tires?
    At least you got a nice boat out of the deal.


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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finch Platte View Post
    Have you tried helium in the tires?
    ...and upsidasium in the headliner. The body, will be painted with unobtanium.
    "The maturity of an 8 year-old boy coupled with the insecurity of a teen aged girl."

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Fastest stock MR2 Turbo was 0-60 in 6.1 seconds. Much lighter than my car, but almost a second slower to 60 mph. Incorrect. But it's OK, now in 2018 you can always call that stat fake news.


    BTW curb weights for common 6-cylinder 2+2 cars out there compared with mine, call it fake news if you must:

    Ford Mustang V-6, RWD 3525 lbs
    BMW M4 I-6, RWD 3525 lbs
    Chevrolet Camaro V-6, RWD 3650 lbs
    Alfa Romeo Giulia V-6, AWD 3650 lbs

    3000GT VR-4 V-6, AWD 3750 lbs

    Mercedes AMG C450 V-6, AWD 3850 lbs
    Infiniti Q50 V-6, RWD 3900 lbs
    Dodge Challenger V-6, RWD 4100 lbs
    Audi S5 V-6, AWD 4100 lbs
    Porsche Panamera V-6, AWD 4125 lbs
    The second gen was heavily retuned. with a boost controller set to 15psi (what most turbo cars run these days)and proper tires it was a proper sports car.

    The VR4 wasn't bad. Just put together like it was trying to win over too may people( is it fast Gt or luxury car). You can easily get the car down to 3200lbs the front seats are stupid heavy and the rear steering is heavy and unnecessary.
    Last edited by Cerberus75; 07-18-2018 at 02:43 PM.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcd46 View Post
    Finally got to see the poll - lol Chaz!

    Naturally, I had to vote for 3 - Richj will understand.

    But really 5 is where is at! (but there is a tie!)

    He's just trying to get back at me for my sarcastic gravel bike poll. Bickle does that sometimes too. Hey you have to take it if you dish it out.
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    There will always be exceptions to the rules. A 10+ year old Jeep Cherokee XJ will be cheap to own and maintain because the model year was the same for so long. And it was very reliable.

    Another one is a well maintained Lexus ls400 the car will rust around its drive train before needing major work.

    Yes, but for a performance car, especially made in the 2000's, things can get very pricey to fix. I was looking at a used BMW 545i 2004-2010, man are they expensive to work on compared with the earlier generation. They are as cheap as $7000 to buy, and yet...

    One post made me run away from that car and a lot of other newer performance cars. There are so many black boxes and overlapping electronics that if one goes down, they all do. This particular guy who posted decided to try and drive across a wash that was flooded by about 18 inches of water. Eventually he got through the water. And then things on the car started not to work. He takes it into the shop, and they tell him he fried the rear computer system in bottom side of the trunk with the river water. $8000 to replace the whole electrical system. Screw that. Old school cars rule.
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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    He's just trying to get back at me for my sarcastic gravel bike poll. Bickle does that sometimes too. Hey you have to take it if you dish it out.
    Actually, I read your post talking about your car. I was under the impression that you were a bit tight on money when it came to buying bike stuff so I was surprised to read you were planning on buying a set of semi-slicks and having your car lowered an inch. That's got to be some bucks. But hey, if that's how you want to spend it, it's your money. And it was a chance to fire back at you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    Remember, there's always quilting and knitting if pedalling becomes too tough.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Violates the 10 year rule. A car more than 10 years old is going to be a money pit unless you somehow find some kind of unicorn, but you'll be trying to convince yourself it's a unicorn when it's really a donkey.
    Might have been lucky but the car forums for Nissan or Infiniti support the VQ motor pretty well, either the 350Z or the G-35.
    As for my 04 G-coupe, was purchased in 2011 with 97,000 on it. Just replaced it so I got some good use out of it. Nothing major except a clutch/flywheel that I attribute to one of three previous owners not mastering a manual trans. Many claim to go beyond 150k on the original clutch unless looking to the high performance lighter weight upgrades. Had the usual pitfalls of minor things I could do myself, window motor, wire rubbed through at the trunk lid hinge .... mostly just wash-wax and gas. Very fun 6mt and dependable. Motor was a dream. I might have baby'd it some as almost everyone on the forums b1tched about burning up tires and brakes. Simple-minded aficionados ?
    To use their lingo - "prolly".

    The one complaint almost universal (something I did not experience) was negative camber tire wear. Mine rolled superb and tire wear was perfectly even. It would suck though since tire life would be drastically short burning up the insides - and expensive.
    In the Middle Ages, the biggest mistake was not putting on your armor because you were 'just going down to the corner.'

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    Yes, but for a performance car, especially made in the 2000's, things can get very pricey to fix. I was looking at a used BMW 545i 2004-2010, man are they expensive to work on compared with the earlier generation. They are as cheap as $7000 to buy, and yet...

    One post made me run away from that car and a lot of other newer performance cars. There are so many black boxes and overlapping electronics that if one goes down, they all do. This particular guy who posted decided to try and drive across a wash that was flooded by about 18 inches of water. Eventually he got through the water. And then things on the car started not to work. He takes it into the shop, and they tell him he fried the rear computer system in bottom side of the trunk with the river water. $8000 to replace the whole electrical system. Screw that. Old school cars rule.
    You definitely need to do research if you want to buy an older performance car. For BMW I'd probably never own anything after 2000 unless I had the money to buy new every few years.

    The worst I've seen is a buddy of mine bought a Lamborghini because it was cheap and his dream car since he was little. He was surprised it was cheap. 4 months later it needed a clutch, that is no longer in production. 7k to reproduce. 2k every 10,000 to readjust the valves.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazpat View Post
    Actually, I read your post talking about your car. I was under the impression that you were a bit tight on money when it came to buying bike stuff so I was surprised to read you were planning on buying a set of semi-slicks and having your car lowered an inch. That's got to be some bucks. But hey, if that's how you want to spend it, it's your money. And it was a chance to fire back at you.

    Well I hope all of this pent-up animosity was not because I'm doing an e-bike conversion and went to the dark side. Let's not make this Meat vs. RockerRC please.
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  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    IME, never buy a used car more than 10 years old, and even 10 years old is pushing it. A reasonable used vehicle is around 5 years old. I'm not saying you should dump your car at 5 years (although some of these modern electronics-cars are questionable), but your car sounds like the equivalent of buying a car more than 10 years old. It's going to have issues. If you are extremely savvy, with access to a lift, tools, parts, time, etc., it might not be so bad, but for most people, it ends up being a hole to throw money down and the older the car, the more variables that you can't control.

    In other words, you need a lot of money to really do it right and keep an older car running well. It's not going to economical, it's going to be because you love it and it deserves it.
    Eh...depends.

    I have an 18 year old car and the only 'work' that has been done to it (not counting washing/waxing/polishing) has been oil changes, one air filter and one set of tires. It's easily the cheapest care I own maintenance-wise; I own/have owned a number of much newer cars that required a lot more attention.
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  69. #69
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    I'm pretty happy with my bikes. I'm done with buying bike stuff for now (even though I got a new saddle for my road bike Saturday). I've been slowly modding the GTI I picked up last year. I get enjoyment my bikes and cars...why not both?

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by RS VR6 View Post
    I get enjoyment my bikes and cars...why not both?
    I'm with you!
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  71. #71
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    If I could drive cars like bikes (flat out on mostly closed circuits) then I could see the appeal. As it is, being relegated to 35mph, 55, etc. one car seems about as good as the next to me.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Violates the 10 year rule. A car more than 10 years old is going to be a money pit unless you somehow find some kind of unicorn, but you'll be trying to convince yourself it's a unicorn when it's really a donkey.
    Lolz. That is ridiculous.

    My 93 Civic I have owned for 8 years now has other then normal maintenance and upgrades I have decided to do has required new caps in the ECU ($2), a valve cover gasket ($30), CV axles ($120) and an ignition coil ($70). Such a money pit.

    Honestly what makes a car a money pit is if someone is lazy and doesn't do their own maintenance.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93EXCivic View Post
    Honestly what makes a car a money pit is if someone is lazy and doesn't do their own maintenance.
    Or maybe what makes some people have to worry about maintenance costs is being too lazy to make enough money to be able to afford a mechanic to do that it for them.

    Personally, I've got better shit to do than play driveway mechanic; my 'free' time is worth more to me than the couple bucks I'd save. Has nothing to do with laziness.
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