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  1. #1
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    New question here. Reynolds 953 stainless steel

    Anyone know which bike frame manufacturers, if any, are making 953 frames now?
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

  2. #2
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    That would be cool to see. I remember Interloc was making a bike from SS a few years ago. Must be worth a lot now. I think welding was a chore and quite pricey.

    Did a google search. Looks like they are going to be VERY pricey:
    http://www.desperadocycles.com/Reyno...cle_Tubing.htm $1900 for a frame.

    http://strongframes.com/#area_1

    So who is 953 right for? If you want lightness and durability titanium is probably the way to go unless you’re a die-hard steel fan. With the extremely thins wall (down to .3mm) of the 953 denting and buckling may be an issue especially if your hard on your bike but we have yet to see. Due to the cost of the material and heat-treating a 953 frame will be every bit as expensive as titanium. If you’re a person that just loves steel or wants a lugged or fillet brazed frame or just wants the polished luster of a stainless frame that is as light as steel can be, 953 is probably the choice for you.
    IF is also developing here.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    That would be cool to see. I remember Interloc was making a bike from SS a few years ago. Must be worth a lot now. I think welding was a chore and quite pricey.

    Did a google search. Looks like they are going to be VERY pricey:
    http://www.desperadocycles.com/Reyno...cle_Tubing.htm $1900 for a frame.

    http://strongframes.com/#area_1



    IF is also developing here.
    Ya, Colombus did Metax stainless tubing a few years back, never seemed to catch on and was discontinued.
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  4. #4
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    Slightly off topic but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken
    That would be cool to see. I remember Interloc was making a bike from SS a few years ago. Must be worth a lot now. I think welding was a chore and quite pricey.

    Did a google search. Looks like they are going to be VERY pricey:
    http://www.desperadocycles.com/Reyno...cle_Tubing.htm $1900 for a frame.
    I have a Columbus Metax SS frame build by the Desperado himself, Mr. Laurence B. Gust II. Thought you might be interested to know that the self-proclaimed world's only master of the silver filet/SS braze bridged over a void under the top-head tube joint, leading to a cracked braze joint. You can have mine cheap.

    I have no idea if he would have fixed it. The last time I talked to him, he claimed that I extorted the frame from him by offering to take it in instead of cash to allow him to pay off a debt. (I credited him with $2500 for the built up bike.) He was of the opinion that I should have forgiven the debt instead. I was afraid that if I took the frame back to him it would have disappeared along with the $800 he failed to pay back to me. I guess he forgave himself before splitting town with no forwarding address.

    Walt

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Dizzy
    I have a Columbus Metax SS frame build by the Desperado himself, Mr. Laurence B. Gust II. Thought you might be interested to know that the self-proclaimed world's only master of the silver filet/SS braze bridged over a void under the top-head tube joint, leading to a cracked braze joint. You can have mine cheap.

    I have no idea if he would have fixed it. The last time I talked to him, he claimed that I extorted the frame from him by offering to take it in instead of cash to allow him to pay off a debt. (I credited him with $2500 for the built up bike.) He was of the opinion that I should have forgiven the debt instead. I was afraid that if I took the frame back to him it would have disappeared along with the $800 he failed to pay back to me. I guess he forgave himself before splitting town with no forwarding address.

    Walt
    I'm suspicious of anybody that puts their mug on the front page of a website or in their advertising.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    I'm suspicious of anybody that puts their mug on the front page of a website or in their advertising.
    His web site is full of nonsense, and I was subject to his nonsense as a customer. His wheels that he calls "signature" and other were craptacular items where his building voided the hub warranty and he did not honor his guarantee. If you search his web site he makes all sorts of outrageous claims one being the idea of one side radial laced as his. A cousin of mine did this before Laurence/Larry/Desperado/Jalon/Lone Hawk was born, and also wrote a book on bike wheels.

    He also used to have junk on his site claiming to be the the one who gave Gary Klein and Chris Chance some of their ideas.

    I witnessed Mr. Dizzy's bad frame and I witnessed this guy's name changes and various moves to avoid reality.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitflogger
    His web site is full of nonsense, and I was subject to his nonsense as a customer. His wheels that he calls "signature" and other were craptacular items where his building voided the hub warranty and he did not honor his guarantee. If you search his web site he makes all sorts of outrageous claims one being the idea of one side radial laced as his. A cousin of mine did this before Laurence/Larry/Desperado/Jalon/Lone Hawk was born, and also wrote a book on bike wheels.

    He also used to have junk on his site claiming to be the the one who gave Gary Klein and Chris Chance some of their ideas.

    I witnessed Mr. Dizzy's bad frame and I witnessed this guy's name changes and various moves to avoid reality.
    Holy crapoly that guy is dillusional. I just read about all the stuff he "invented", Hilarious.

    Check this out. This is off his website......he's talking about himself, absolutley loony I tell ya.

    A totally unsolicited comment from the builder:
    I have ridden over 275,000 miles on bicycles in my life, with over 75,000 miles of that riding on these custom built frames created from the hands of a human. The silver brazed Desperado Cycles framesets are the finest riding, best tracking bicycles in the world.
    Jalon Hawk
    "Do not touch the trim"

  8. #8
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    yeah

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    Ya, Colombus did Metax stainless tubing a few years back, never seemed to catch on and was discontinued.
    They Rhygin Metax by Rhygin Racing Cycles was on my lust list for quite a while. Too bad that company went belly up in the midst of the bigger players.

    I wonder why Metax didn't catch on
    Better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

  9. #9
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    Lost cause (thread hijack warning)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    Holy crapoly that guy is dillusional. I just read about all the stuff he "invented", Hilarious.

    Check this out. This is off his website......he's talking about himself, absolutley loony I tell ya.

    A totally unsolicited comment from the builder:
    I have ridden over 275,000 miles on bicycles in my life, with over 75,000 miles of that riding on these custom built frames created from the hands of a human. The silver brazed Desperado Cycles framesets are the finest riding, best tracking bicycles in the world.
    Jalon Hawk
    It was really difficult watching Larry self-destruct. No matter how many times his friends would suggest, wheedle, re-direct, or confront him about his BS, it just kept oozing out of some primal need that would not be denied. He possesses an endless capacity for self pity that is truly offensive to people who just want to deal in bikes: customers became sounding boards for all kinds of rants about the evils of Trek, Shimano, Klein, and the other local shops.

    His capacity for self-deception allowed him to deny any responsibility for problems in his work. After driving away most of his customers, and going through a second bankrupcy, he needed to blame his failure on his few remaining friends. I allowed him to pay off over $4000 in debt mostly by taking bikes in trade. He was fine with it at the time. As he became more delusional, he accused me of extorting the bikes out of him, and made several statements that he thought I should have just forgiven the debt (while allowing him to keep his inventory).

    He promised to settle his remaining debt to me with another bike, but moved away without letting me know where he was going. He left on bad terms with most of his old friends I have spoken with. His business failure is everyone else's fault. If you are ever tempted to deal with him remember something he told me once with a grin. "Lifetime warranty means the lifetime of the part, right?"

    BTW, I tried on several occasions to help him with his grammar and spelling, an interesting example of which you quote. He was offended. I guess it's better to display one's ignorance for all the world to see than to go through the tedious work of doing the job correctly.

    Walt

  10. #10
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    additional jacking

    PROFESSIONAL THREAD KILLER!



    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    Maybe I will just start hanging out in the "Recycle Bin" forum.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bitflogger
    His web site is full of nonsense, and I was subject to his nonsense as a customer. His wheels that he calls "signature" and other were craptacular items where his building voided the hub warranty and he did not honor his guarantee. If you search his web site he makes all sorts of outrageous claims one being the idea of one side radial laced as his. A cousin of mine did this before Laurence/Larry/Desperado/Jalon/Lone Hawk was born, and also wrote a book on bike wheels.
    Your cousing wouldn't happen to have J.B. as his initials would he?
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rigel
    Anyone know which bike frame manufacturers, if any, are making 953 frames now?
    It may very well turn out like Aermet 100, where the demand for the stuff JUST didn't last, and the manufacturer discontinued regular production of tubesets. I think at its peak maybe six frame builders offered frames using it, but after ordering a few hundred tubesets combined, they didn't re-order as fast because really... most frame builders won't sell that many custom frames a year anyways, and carpenter probably was counting on MORE regular sales of the stuff to justify the production expense of making the tubing in sports sizes (like 1 1/8" outside diameters for seattube), even though it was seamed tubing at that (rolled from flat sheet, seam welded and then machined down).

    As an aside, you can STILL order Aermet from Carpenter Technology (I've emailed them and asked), seamless now too, but you need to order a thousand feet of tubing at a time in every variation you'd need. Want to build frames from it? Let's see, you'll need probably 5 different diameters of tubes... top and seattube will usually be the same spec, then a downtube, a BB shell, a headtube, and oh stays. So what's that? 6,000 feet of tubing. Yeah I'll get right on that. Oh sure the stuff is ridiculously thin walled (like 1/20th of an inch) but its also ridiculously strong (over 300,000psi tensile strength) and hard (its a high nickel content alloy, which among other uses is in military grade armor plating, a sheet of aermet, the thickness of 4 business cards, will stop most handgun calibers). As I recall, the reason it didn't just fly off the shelves of the custom builders who chose to work with it was it tended to murder the machine tool heads typically used to cut the joints to make the tubes into a frame. So an Aermet frame basically ended up costing as much as a Titanium frame.
    I don't post to generate business for myself or make like I'm better than sliced bread

  13. #13
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    hijack the highjack

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    Your cousing wouldn't happen to have J.B. as his initials would he?
    Name is or was Leonard Goldberg. His book is full of the math that explains the strength and merits or demerits of various wheel designs. I believe the book was done in the late 1960s.

    We are thinking it's a he was now. He has not responded to any communication, and he is/was a cousin of my mother so it would him give or take 90 years old.

    He left quite an impression on me because I was a teen who just got my first good "British racer" when he showed up at our house on a journey around N. America.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight
    Oh sure the stuff is ridiculously thin walled (like 1/20th of an inch) but its also ridiculously strong (over 300,000psi tensile strength) and hard (its a high nickel content alloy, which among other uses is in military grade armor plating, a sheet of aermet, the thickness of 4 business cards, will stop most handgun calibers). As I recall, the reason it didn't just fly off the shelves of the custom builders who chose to work with it was it tended to murder the machine tool heads typically used to cut the joints to make the tubes into a frame. So an Aermet frame basically ended up costing as much as a Titanium frame.
    It's actually reffered to as a "high cobalt" content alloy and falls under the strategic materials banner because of this. Cobalt is a strategic material because we have very little in the US and it is very necessary for a plethora of military applications, therefore if somebody jacks around with our supply we run over with a big gun and start shooting at people. Your right about eating tools, that was the killer for many builders.

    EDIT, oh ya, it was originally developed for F-18 landing gear stanchions after the Navy discovered that hard carrier landings were folding the 4130 ones....oops.
    Last edited by Rivet; 08-03-2006 at 08:15 PM.
    "Do not touch the trim"

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