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  1. #1
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    New question here. Pedal Flip from Agressive Pedaling

    I recently switched from clipless to flats and have noticed something new to me... When I try "pedaling circles" and really start pushing (i.e. climbing a hill) as my foot comes over the top of the pedal stroke the pedal sometimes flips over forward causing me to lose footing. The pedals I'm using are Wellgo B-103's, I'm thinking that it's the pedal thickness that's biting me here (as well as technique), anyone have a similar experience? I was looking at the Spank Spikes (thinner pedals) and they claim to reduce "pedal flip". What do you think?

  2. #2
    Clyde on a mission!
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    Can't you just keep your heel down while pushing forward?

  3. #3
    trail addict
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    "pedaling circles" with flats is slightly different from clipless. Since this was a recent switch, just stick with it and I'm sure you will get better. Sounds like a combo of foot positioning/pressure. Thinner pedals may help, but it sounds like you just have to adjust your pedaling habits... many people ride with pedals as thick as the wellgos and manage, so it is up to you if you want to switch .
    You better just go ahead and drop that seatpost down to the reflector... the trail gets pretty rough down there.

  4. #4
    'Tis but a scratch
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    As you come over the top (between 12 and 3 o'clock), drop your heel. Its the same with clipless, but you aren't flipping the pedal using clipless because it allows you to cheat. If you work on the pedaling technique it will help you with clipless or platform pedals.

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    Perfect Pedal Stroke: Cycling Training Tips | Bicycling Magazine

  5. #5
    Ninja Master Powers
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    Just keep pedaling, you'll adjust.

    Wait till your sitting a spinning up a climb and lift your foot off at the top. Next thing that catches will either be your shin. After a while it will all just be fine.

  6. #6
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    rotor chain rings help with this IMO...

  7. #7
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    Hey Ufdah,

    Your thinking on moving to thinner pedals to reduce pedal flip is right on target...or should I say right on the pedal; 'cause that's where your foot is likely to stay much more often, the thinner the pedal you're riding.

    For proof of this, just grab some duct tape and an extra set of pedals or a couple of short blocks of wood. First duct tape the extra pedals or wood blocks to either side of ONE of the pedals on your bike, sandwiching it and creating a triple-thick pedal, and go ride around for a few minutes. Now stand up and try climbing or sprinting. Notice that the triple thick pedal is far less stable than the unadultered pedal on the other side of your bike.

    Next, tape both pedals or wood blocks to THE SAME SIDE of one pedal on your bike, so that if you rotate the thick side up, it will simulate having a pedal that is 5 times as thick as a regular pedal. Now, it will likely be difficult to even stand up without getting thrown off.

    These easy demonstrations show how a thicker pedal is less stable, and point to the inverse also being true. Inother words, a thinner pedal will be more stable. This was the entire reason why I invented FlyPaper Pedals. At just 3.7 millimeters thin, they are by far the most stable pedal in the history of the planet.

    Prior to that, I had gone from 24 mm thick pedals to 17mm ones, and had noticed a HUGE difference. The more aggressively you pedal, especially on stair-steppy, technical climbs, the more likely you will benefit from going thinner. Even when I was riding 17mm thick pedals, I would typically roll a pedal at least once per ride, and sometimes three or four times in a row, as I repeatedly tried to make it up some stairstep ledge or series of ledges in the middle of a steep climb. In the first eight months of riding FlyPapers, I rolled them only four or five times TOTAL! Then I got used to them and got better at using them, (See description of new pedal stroke technique at end of this post.) and have rolled a pedal less than ten times in the past five years.

    Quote Originally Posted by huffster View Post
    As you come over the top (between 12 and 3 o'clock), drop your heel. Its the same with clipless, but you aren't flipping the pedal using clipless because it allows you to cheat. If you work on the pedaling technique it will help you with clipless or platform pedals.

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    Perfect Pedal Stroke: Cycling Training Tips | Bicycling Magazine
    I've got to laugh when I look at this illustration, where the rider's heel is still so high at the twelve o'clock position, and they are talking about dropping the heel somewhere "between twelve and three o'clock". Now that I'm riding the World's thinnest pedals, I drop my heels and start pushing forward at 10:30 and pushing HARD forward by 11:00. I'm also pulling back HARD on the bottom of the stroke past 8:00.

    Now, after five years of design refinement, I'm getting ready to make some prototypes of my new design, which will be waaay thinner than my FlyPaper Pedals. Unfortunately, they will likely never go into production, as we did a small production run of the Flypapers and they found little commercial success, even though they were immensely successful performancewise. At least I'll get to ride a pair...
    If more people rode more bikes, more places, more often, the world would be a more better place!

  8. #8
    trail addict
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    He still ought to get accustomed to riding "regular thickness" pedals at least a little bit. Then switching to thinner pedals will allow him to use better technique instead of the same old techniques being covered-up by the lower profile.

    I'd be interested in seeing some actual quantifiable data as to how "hard" you are pushing and pulling at 10:30 and 8:00. Any dyno results?
    You better just go ahead and drop that seatpost down to the reflector... the trail gets pretty rough down there.

  9. #9
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    Uncle Six Pack, your logic qualifies you for a Government job, perhaps even a career in politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Six Pack View Post
    He still ought to get accustomed to riding "regular thickness" pedals at least a little bit. Then switching to thinner pedals will allow him to use better technique instead of the same old techniques being covered-up by the lower profile.

    I'd be interested in seeing some actual quantifiable data as to how "hard" you are pushing and pulling at 10:30 and 8:00. Any dyno results?
    And Uncle Six Pack should get accustomed to riding a rigid MalWart Huffy at least a little bit. Then switching to a Specialized SX Trail will allow him to use better technique instead of the same old techniques being covered up by the Special Ed.

    Yes, that's what the performane and safety differences between my old 17mm thick pedals and my 3.7mm thin FlyPapers are like; pretty much the same as the preformance and safety differences between a rigid Huffy and a full suspension Speckeled Egg!

    I say Ufdah should get the best thin pedals he can afford, as soon as he can, before he hurts himself...and THEN work more on technique. (And keep working on technique, for as long as you ride...there's NO reason to not keep getting better and better!)

    As for your question about dyno results; I don't need them...I've got Deano results! (My name is Dean, but my friend, Simon Bosman calls me "Deano".) As for Deano results, I immediately noticed a small, but significant boost in power, and a virtual end to the age-old problem of slipped or flipped pedals. I'm now making it up technical climbs that I never made when I was riding conventional flat pedals...and I was in WAY BETTER shape back then. (I'm going to turn 52 in October.)

    Oh yeah, I was already a really good technical climber, even before I made the FlyPapers; in fact, "Rama" Jon Cogan, who owned Mountain Bike Heaven in Sedona for over 23 years and led thousands of group rides that were joined in by visitors from all over the World says that he thinks I was already the best flat pedal climber he'd ever ridden with...and now I'm way better!
    If more people rode more bikes, more places, more often, the world would be a more better place!

  10. #10
    local trails rider
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    A couple of points:
    My basic thing for pedaling in circles is to try to maintain constant light pressure between shoe and pedal. I don't consciously pull up unless I need a special bost for something.

    Are the pedal axles/bearings spinning freely? I once had a pair of flat pedals with soft axles, and they started binding after riding for a few weeks.

    "it IS possible that you are faster or slower than anybody else who is having at least as much if not more or less fun"

  11. #11
    MTB B'dos
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    Way nice SPAM BikeDoc, go buy an add and YES of course if you strap a focking piece of wood or two it'll be impossible to pedal, WTF else would you expect Typical band aid for not learning to use a product before giving up on it - I'm fat, overweight and have high cholesterol, let me take lipitor for this instead of cleaning up my diet and exercising
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  12. #12
    trail addict
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Doc View Post
    And Uncle Six Pack should get accustomed to riding a rigid MalWart Huffy at least a little bit. Then switching to a Specialized SX Trail will allow him to use better technique instead of the same old techniques being covered up by the Special Ed.
    Funny, have you been stalking me a while? It is startling how much you know about the bikes I have owned in my life and the progression of my skills.

    Anyway, the OP has just recently switched from clipless pedals, a period of adjustment is to be expected. He can learn to pedal with what he has and it WILL help his technique. A lower-profile pedal will be a benefit, but in the meantime he may be surprised by how much better he will get by just riding what he has.

    In your last paragraph, you say you were already a great pedaler and got better with flypapers... sounds like you already had good technique AND THEN the equipment upgrade helped further. Sounds like the same logic I am using, but who knows?
    You better just go ahead and drop that seatpost down to the reflector... the trail gets pretty rough down there.

  13. #13
    'Tis but a scratch
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    Man BikeDoc, you could've made your point on thin pedals without insulting every one on the thread and coming off as such an egotistical SOB.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by huffster View Post
    Man BikeDoc, you could've made your point on thin pedals without insulting every one on the thread and coming off as such an egotistical SOB.
    It is very much his specialty.

    Good thing his product is so amazing that everyone is overlooking his personality and buying up his pedals/cranks like crazy.

  15. #15
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    Thanks everyone for sharing your opinions and ideas. I agree with Bike Doc on the strangeness of the diagram having your heel so far above the pedal at 12 o'clock... But, i did take some of the advice and I'm dropping my heel a little more as I round the top and it has solved the pedal flip problem. I do like the idea of getting thinner pedals at some point but I think focusing on my technique for now will get me by. Thanks again!

    ps - Bike Doc, I appreciate what you've added but lets stop pushing products and boasting. To the others, let's back off. As far as I'm concerned this thread has run its course but we can leave it open for anyone else that has NEW stuff to add.

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