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  1. #1
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    new to tubeless fail

    I'm brand new to the tubeless game:

    I just got some Stan's rims for my rigid SS, threw my Maxxis' on them (with Stan's fluid), pumped them up to ~21-22 lbs and went for a ride.
    A couple of miles in, moving pretty quickly, I had to take a sudden hard left to weave through some trees. The tire folded, lost all air immediately and sent me flying into the abyss.
    Who knew that the abyss was so full of logs and rocks?

    I've never heard of this happening before.
    My assumption is that there wasn't enough air pressure in the tire to handle the forces, but I've heard endlessly about people running Tubeless tire pressure that low.

    Why did I have this kind of failure and how can I prevent it in the future?

    Heckle away.....

  2. #2
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    Tire pressure depends heavily on your weight, trails, rim width, and riding style. Maybe that pressure is a bit too low for you given the other variables.

    Also, how much time elapsed between setting up the tires and going for your ride? Did you make sure the bead was adequately seated? Were the tires brand new, or have they been used prior to being set up tubeless? Are the tires regular tires or tubeless ready ones?

    If they'd been used prior to being set up tubeless, and you went out for a ride immediately after installing them, it's quite likely that they were not sealed yet. Used tires have a ton of minute holes that need to be sealed. They will weep sealant for quite some time before sealing up completely. Some may never completely seal. Especially regular tires. Brand new tires will seal up much quicker initially.

    If you're using UST rims and tubeless tires (either UST or tubeless ready), setup can be REALLY quick and you can get out and ride. Tubeless ready rims may take a little more setup time because you have strips to deal with.

    Anytime you add a component not designed to be used tubeless, you add setup time. Used tires add still more setup time.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk View Post
    Tire pressure depends heavily on your weight, trails, rim width, and riding style. Maybe that pressure is a bit too low for you given the other variables.

    Also, how much time elapsed between setting up the tires and going for your ride? Did you make sure the bead was adequately seated? Were the tires brand new, or have they been used prior to being set up tubeless? Are the tires regular tires or tubeless ready ones?

    If they'd been used prior to being set up tubeless, and you went out for a ride immediately after installing them, it's quite likely that they were not sealed yet. Used tires have a ton of minute holes that need to be sealed. They will weep sealant for quite some time before sealing up completely. Some may never completely seal. Especially regular tires. Brand new tires will seal up much quicker initially.

    If you're using UST rims and tubeless tires (either UST or tubeless ready), setup can be REALLY quick and you can get out and ride. Tubeless ready rims may take a little more setup time because you have strips to deal with.

    Anytime you add a component not designed to be used tubeless, you add setup time. Used tires add still more setup time.

    NateHawk, thanks for your reply!

    I weigh ~175lbs

    The trail was pretty smooth: I was coming down off of a fairly small root into the corner, nothing that should be radical to a mountain bike wheel.

    The rim is a standard Stan's ZTR Arch EX 29er Single Speed Stock Wheelset.

    Time elapsed between installation and the ride was ~4 hrs.

    Bead seemed to be properly seated, to the best of my ability to tell. It was holding air well.

    The tires were used and I believe regular (not tubeless ready).

    I'm not sure what a UST rim is.

    The failure was in the "bead" of the tire physically separating from the edge of the rim, thus the immediate release of air. Not from holes or any slow leak or such.
    I should add that I actually inflated them to ~60PSI when I was initially setting the beads. After letting them lay on each side for about 10-15 min each side I reduced the pressure to the 21-22 PSI that I was attempting to run.

  4. #4
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    Sound like you did everything right but as stated My last set of tires required a lot of baby sitting before they became trouble free......spewing sidewalls, seal failing.

    They've been trouble free " RR " since the initial frustration.

  5. #5
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    After the bead was set and you left the tires at 60 or so psi did you deflate the tire to see if the bead was indeed set? As far as I am concerned that is the only way to verify that the bead is really in the right spot. Deflate and check that the tire is flush with the rim on both sides and does not move away from the rim when gently pressed. If not, use the compressor again to see if it will pop in. Deflate, rinse and repeat. Once the bead is set on a Stan's rim you should have no problem inflating the tire with a floor pump.

    On the other hand you may have had it set and pressure was too low. Or, just really bad luck.

  6. #6
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    that's weird. Very often, i set my arches up tubeless with Maxxis tires, immediately go out and ride, run 23psi, ride HARD, and i weigh 215 lbs, never had a burp.

    did you hear the "pop" sound on both sides when airing up the tires?


    PS: I've done the same with my Flows and also with my Blunt P35s (with a Geax Goma TNT and a racing ralph), run the p35s at like 20 psi and no issue.

  7. #7
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    If I remember correctly there is a sticker somewhere on my ZTR Flow rims saying something like, "Maximum Tire Pressure 40 psi." The following quote for the NoTubes site:

    "Note: Do not exceed 40 psi when seating a mountain bike tire tubeless on Stanís rims."

    NoTubes Recommended Tires

    I read a reply from a representative from NoTubes here on MTBR that this is not a limitation based on the strength of the rims, rather it is a tyre bead limitation. You may have stressed and/or damaged the bead of a standard tyre and stretched it by pumping it to 60psi. A TLR tyre has a stronger bead than a non-tubeless.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  8. #8
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    At your weight and on rigid, I suggest running more pressure, like mid to upper 20s.
    ...and proud member of the anti-sock puppet desolation

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteNW View Post
    The failure was in the "bead" of the tire physically separating from the edge of the rim, thus the immediate release of air. Not from holes or any slow leak or such.
    I should add that I actually inflated them to ~60PSI when I was initially setting the beads. After letting them lay on each side for about 10-15 min each side I reduced the pressure to the 21-22 PSI that I was attempting to run.
    My point about using regular tires (used) and not giving it a long time for the sealant to fill holes is that the tire is going to weep air slowly. It may or may not weep sealant. I would bet that your tire was still slowly weeping air, and when it failed, I'd bet that it was measurably lower pressure than you set it before your ride.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteNW View Post
    I've heard endlessly about people running Tubeless tire pressure that low.
    I started riding when tubeless wasn't even a dream. The low pressure thing is a lot of BS. Sure, you may not pinch flat, but you'll dent rims and roll tires off the rim, like you experienced. You need enough pressure to prevent these things and not have excessive "tire squirm" in corners and under acceleration. Pinch flats definitely happened, it was basically bottoming out the tire on the rim, sometimes resulting in rim damage, but almost always pointing to the need for more pressure. Now, I have gotten about 50-60lbs lighter than I used to be, so I am running significantly lower pressure than I used to, but I've ran tubes and tubeless extensively in the past and in the present. Mostly, you probably just need a little more pressure. 20 is pretty darn low for any serious mountain bike riding, and by serious I mean aggressive riding, hard cornering, rocks, roots, etc. Still, there are some 100lb riders that would do just fine in almost any terrain with this. How much do you weigh?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  11. #11
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    A lot depends on the tire ,rim and how you ride. I was running some non tubeless tires on my Spider with no ,moved the tires and rims to my 5.5 an started rolling them off the rim bead I guess I was riding the 5.5 harder than the Spider.

  12. #12
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    I weigh 180 or so and can't run below 35 without rolling tires off. Doesn't matter what tires or rims they are.

    Its an improvement over tubes for me even at that pressure, so its worth it for me. But its something a lot of people fail to mention about tubeless. 22psi wouldn't last me 50 feet of trail.

  13. #13
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    Wow, I race XC at around 22f/26r psi. Tubed and tubeless.
    Last edited by NordieBoy; 08-28-2014 at 01:21 PM.

  14. #14
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    Re: new to tubeless fail

    Quote Originally Posted by AgrAde View Post
    I weigh 180 or so and can't run below 35 without rolling tires off. Doesn't matter what tires or rims they are.

    Its an improvement over tubes for me even at that pressure, so its worth it for me. But its something a lot of people fail to mention about tubeless. 22psi wouldn't last me 50 feet of trail.
    That's nuts. How can I weigh 35lb more than you and run 10-15lbs less pressure?

  15. #15
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    Nate's got it If they weren't TR tyres and had been used for a while, the sidewalls might have had some abrasions and if the OP didn't properly do the shake and leave thing to seal all those little pinholes and then re-inflate, the tyre was probably loosing pressure as he rode and was down in the teens when that happened. I've run Maxxis tyres tubeless for years, back when they didn't offer anything but the LUST casing or regular and once I let the sealant do it's job on the sidewalls, I never had an issue with those earlier, "normal" tyres.
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  16. #16
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    Has to be the rim tire combo.....it can't be seating properly.

    Been running 20 psi for years Tubeless and never rolled a tire. Ran my share of Maxxis too, great tire.

    Are the tires inside out ??? lol

  17. #17
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    Many of the gauges on the tire pumps go above 100psi and readings are off a bit at lower pressures. Something to keep in mind when we are comparing numbers online. I always use the same pump when airing up my tires to avoid any inconsistency there.

  18. #18
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    new to tubeless fail

    I have Stan's ztr flow ex. I have to run mine at 28-30 psi or I burp the entire way down.

  19. #19
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    Stupid question - but do you have the proper rim strips/tape ?

    If not, you would have been bleeding out pressure through the rim tape.

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