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  1. #1
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    New American Hiking Society logo....



    (thanks for the PS help, Dr. Sloth!)
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  2. #2
    007
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    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  3. #3
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    Yup
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  4. #4
    AZ
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    Hiking is on the wane while MTBing continues to attract new participants, it is nothing but a matter of time before the inevitable happens. Remember to vote.

  5. #5
    MTB B'dos
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    Sorry, don't see the issue here Seems like you're the kid who jealous of what another has and wants it too along with what you already have. Once they're not fighting to get MTBers kicked off of current trails they are allowed to use I fully understand them wanting to not have MTBs zipping by along current hiker only trails - I used to bird watch and photograph and having mountain bikes zipping along on such trails would be damn aggravating if you are a naturalist and hiker interested in watching nature.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  6. #6
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    Not remotely the case.
    Look where I live....the hikers/equestrians have literally MILLIONS of acres of wilderness as a private playground. It's time, politically and demographically, that they need to learn to share the remainder.
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  7. #7
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    I agree with Lynx. I am both a hiker and a biker, and I've been buzzed enough times by thoughtless bikers that I fully see their point of view. As long as they come to the table with cooperative sharing in mind, I support them.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  8. #8
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasp4Air View Post
    I agree with Lynx. I am both a hiker and a biker, and I've been buzzed enough times by thoughtless bikers that I fully see their point of view. As long as they come to the table with cooperative sharing in mind, I support them.
    They don't...look Into to it!
    They are 100% anti- access for bikes, anywhere, period.
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    They don't...look Into to it!
    They are 100% anti- access for bikes, anywhere, period.
    Why do I like sports that piss people off?

    Late 80's-early 90's skateboarding = hate
    Early 90's snowboarding = hate
    Mid 90's to present road biking = hate by many motorists
    Now mountain biking = hate.

  10. #10
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    Good thing the PCT = Perfect Cycling Trail. Despite not being designed for bikes it really is perfect for them in a lot of areas. And it is sustainable. So, seems to me, there goes their argument.

    Though I would add self-entitlement and selfishness to the logo along with hate.

    Seriously people, if you want solitude in a country with 330 million people I don't know how you can expect to find it on the trails. All you have to do if you want solitude is go 100ft off trail, and you won't see a soul.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by evdog View Post
    Seriously people, if you want solitude in a country with 330 million people I don't know how you can expect to find it on the trails. All you have to do if you want solitude is go 100ft off trail, and you won't see a soul.
    I don't think it's about solitude - it's about not having to be worrying about a jackass on a bike coming behind you at speed and yelling at the last moment, then blasting past you. Around where I ride and hike, many bikers are safe and courteous to hikers; almost all are at least ok; and then there are the ones who ride like they own the trail, whipping through blind corners, barely slowing to pass a hiker at speed. After a few of those jerks, you're always looking over your shoulder.

    I don't mind if a few trails are set aside for hikers only, as long as there enough to go around for everyone. But that's the key - trail are resources for hikers, bikers and horses, and cooperation and sharing should be the rule. Maybe for a trail devoted to hikers, another could be bikes only, one way, so the racer boys can rip to their hearts content and not have pesky hikers in the way.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  12. #12
    livin' the dream......
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    Hiking is the lowest common denominator in the outdoor world. I am all for people getting out there and accessing public lands, that is their right. What I don't put up with is the occasional/seasonal user(s) hiking three wide and not yielding to anyone, solo hikers rocking tunes, oblivious to my bell, polite request to pass on the left, etc. Locally, there are some hike only trails, but no ride only trails.......I kill people with kindness while riding, I go out of my way to be 'responsible' and 'predictable' while on my bike. On the rare occasion that I hike, I expect that from riders too. Don't always get that, but most mtbr's get it, and are good.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gasp4Air View Post
    I don't think it's about solitude
    Well mainly its about not wanting to share. But if hikers were honest folk (at least, for the hard cores) they would admit that they don't want to see ANYONE else on the trails period, other hikers included. Read the pct message boards, they go on at length how important it is to be "in the zone" and how they can be 1/2mi ahead or behind another hiker and never see the person.

    I wonder how they feel when it takes them 2 days then to go from 0.1mi behind to 0.1mi ahead and finally out of sight of that other a-hole hiker. Whereas a bike would be gone and out of sight in 5min. Just a thought.

  14. #14
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    I don't think this would be an issue if we were allowed to build more mtb specific trails. But its often the case that ::cough:: certain groups will go out of their way to oppose that from happening. Can you imagine the $hit storm that would develop from, say, the Sierra club if someone tried to create a bike equivalent to the PCT?

    So if you can't legally build your own trails, and you can expand to hiking only trails, what options are there?
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  15. #15
    Airborne Flight Crew
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    Plenty of solitude and "zone opportunity" in the designated wilderness areas. Colorado alone has like 40 or so, totaling over 3 million acres. Its not like there's a shortage of hiker-only venues to get away from those pesky, buzzing bikers.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PerfectZero View Post
    I don't think this would be an issue if we were allowed to build more mtb specific trails. But its often the case that ::cough:: certain groups will go out of their way to oppose that from happening. Can you imagine the $hit storm that would develop from, say, the Sierra club if someone tried to create a bike equivalent to the PCT?

    So if you can't legally build your own trails, and you can expand to hiking only trails, what options are there?
    The hikers would love it if we could build our own bike specific PCT. Because they could then hike on it and then ***** that the bikers were running them off the trail. Make no mistake, it is a very small majority who are making noise to keep bikes off the PCT. Half the hikers who use the PCT dont even know that bikes are not allowed. of those who do know, only 50% even care. Of those who care, only a smaller % would ever say anything to you. Probably the same % that would give you stink eye for riding a bike on a multi use trail.

    Reality is we could never build a MTB specific PCT. There is too much wilderness and too much private property, it would cost too much, and the people who would make the decisions are not willing to stick their necks out to support it. They have been trying to resurrect the California Riding and Hiking Trail for decades, which would be our one hope. But that is mired down by a multitude of issues.

    What would make sense is to open the non-wilderness PCT to bikes. It would not cost a penny to do, and would actually save money as bikers could adopt sections to maintain. Plus, people would actually use the trail! Go figure....

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Sorry, don't see the issue here Seems like you're the kid who jealous of what another has and wants it too along with what you already have. Once they're not fighting to get MTBers kicked off of current trails they are allowed to use I fully understand them wanting to not have MTBs zipping by along current hiker only trails - I used to bird watch and photograph and having mountain bikes zipping along on such trails would be damn aggravating if you are a naturalist and hiker interested in watching nature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasp4Air View Post
    I agree with Lynx. I am both a hiker and a biker, and I've been buzzed enough times by thoughtless bikers that I fully see their point of view. As long as they come to the table with cooperative sharing in mind, I support them.
    And this is why mountain biking struggles to make the slow progress we do. "They" have closed ranks and want to exclude MTBs. Our ranks have hikers amongst us who "see their point of view" and thus we can't and don't mount a strong campaign to share what belongs to ALL of the citizens of the US.

    As for coming to the table with cooperative sharing in mind? So far, I've not seen a hint of that from any hiker dominated organization.
    www.teamnavycycling.org
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  18. #18
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    I do a lot of hiking and mountain biking. I think the big problem is that many mountain bikers have poor trail manners. They don't yield to hikers like they're supposed to and often times you can't hear them coming until they're right on you. When I've lived in Alaska and Washington State I tied a small bell (like a jingle bell) to my handle bar. That way bears and hikers would know I was coming, it's been helpful. I'm in Korea now but I think I might do the same. Hiking is huge here. From experience, I know that almost getting run over on an otherwise peaceful hike can be quite off putting.

    Personally, I'd like to see a network of mountain bike only trails setup so we don't have to watch out for hikers and equestrians. Then we can just bomb downhill and zip through the forest unimpeded.

    Anyway, I don't think it's productive for either side to be hateful and vengeful about the issue of access and use. Let Congress keep that nonsense. I think there are valid concerns on both sides.
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  19. #19
    MTB B'dos
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    Sorry to be a logical, honest, ethically thinking MTBer and being able to view from the other sides perspective, guess that makes me a "bad" person Curious who would have pushed for and help build this PCT system? I say do as suggested and build your own trails, that are bike specific. Instead of blowing that $20, $30, $40 on beer and pizza after the ride, throw it in a collection tin and get the rest of the MTBers to do the same, petition for someplace to build the trail and get other MTBers to do the same. When you get the permission, then round up all those MTBers and get them to come out and volunteer and build their bike only trail.

    Sorry if you all can't realise how annoying and a PITA we in general are, some people aren't out there just to get a speed/adrenalin buzz, they want to enjoy nature, taking their time to take it in, watch the wildlife and just chill and if you're narrow minded enough to think that's possible allowing bikes or horses on these trails, then you fall into the same narrow minded category as the hikers you're trying to pigeon hole as such.
    Quote Originally Posted by skiahh View Post
    And this is why mountain biking struggles to make the slow progress we do. "They" have closed ranks and want to exclude MTBs. Our ranks have hikers amongst us who "see their point of view" and thus we can't and don't mount a strong campaign to share what belongs to ALL of the citizens of the US.

    As for coming to the table with cooperative sharing in mind? So far, I've not seen a hint of that from any hiker dominated organization.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??
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  20. #20
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    I prefer riding where motorcycles and jeeps aren't allowed, what the heck's wrong with hikers wanting trails without bikes?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I prefer riding where motorcycles and jeeps aren't allowed, what the heck's wrong with hikers wanting trails without bikes?
    I agree with you, but also would like to see more MTB trails where hikers were not allowed. The problem as I perceive it is that Hikers do not like being told that any trail is off-limits to them, especially if it is built on public (government owned) land.

    I rode at a MTB Park yesterday for the first time, and realized just how nice it was having no hikers to avoid. I am a very courteous trail rider, but regardless of how nice you are, some hikers just act like you shouldn't be out there. Our local trails here are closed to Mountain Bikers on Saturdays, but yet the hikers have trails that bikers are not allowed on any other day of the week as well. I would be happy with some bike specific trails, or maybe a day when hikers aren't allowed.
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  22. #22
    YRG
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    Totally agree with them (American Hiking). Signed their petition. Bikes are PITA for people on foot. More separate use trails are better for all user groups. Branding them as a hate group is a very angry act, ironically demonstrating hate. The way things get better for all is with cooperation and respect. I want hiking only trails. I want directional bike only trails. I wish bikers would ride with courtesy in our area. Unfortunately most of us don't. Look at history and see that bikes are the ones bringing down on other users experience. Our bikes are better, faster, and way more fun. A decent xc rider can out ride a dh rider of 15 years ago. We are the ones who are messing things up for others. Rideit, please take down the logo, it is narrow minded and counter productive.

  23. #23
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    We, the mountain bikers, built many of the so called hiking trails in our area. Y'know what's a major PITA? Having a dozen or more hikers unwilling to move aside down or up the hill! Even better, there are multiple destination weight loss spas that use our bike trails as commercial hiking locations. I too hike, although hiking terrain that could be biked causes me intense pain and regret, however that doesn't limit my perception to being blind to the inequitable behavior of many hiking/naturalist groups. I agree with cooperation, but when one group refuses to cooperate with the other only a fool tries to continue to "get along." Don't even get me started on equestrians, they do more damage to a trail than a thousand hikers/bikers!
    I like bikes.

  24. #24
    Airborne Flight Crew
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    "Do you realize what a PITA it is" can be played by both sides. What gives hikers "more right" than mtb'ers?

    What's narrow minded is to believe that hikers have some priority to use the trails that we do not. PITA or not, I have a right to be that PITA. Just because they are looking to chill in wildlife, are on foot, or can whistle Zippity Doo Dah, does give them priority of usage.

    I also have the right to be courteous, in fact, it's more a responsibility. And I am. There are users on both sides that are not, neither "side" has a lock-down on misbehavior. Its a bogus excuse.

    Also narrow minded is to ignore the fact that millions of acres of designated wilderness that riders are not allowed in. The rider-free utopia they seek already exists. For every existing trail they get to designate as "hiker only" - they should be working to provide a venue for the users they displace. OR build their own damn trails. Go build a "hiking park" and see how that flies for them...

    and Rideit, please leave the logo there - its quite productive in generating a dialogue. (they had their a$$es handed to them on their little facebook campaign).
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  25. #25
    007
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    The bottom line is that the hiking, cycling and equestrian communities need to learn to share the trails. If you can't manage to share a trail safely and responsibly - no matter how you travel on it - then get off the trails. Period.
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

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