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  1. #1
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    Neurologist says bike helmets are useless

    I apologize if this has already made the round (I took a quick look and didn't see it pop up...). A UK neurologist claims that helmets are too flimsy to provide any real protection (think he is talking road riding) and the article even claims there is research that shows cars drive closer to helmeted riders.

    Cycle helmets are useless, says brain surgeon - Telegraph

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    I stopped using one on the road. I just mine on the trails or for bike demos(where they demand you have one).

  3. #3
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    Hmmm, I'll have to see the data.
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  5. #5
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    Awesome. I think you should stop wearing one.

  6. #6
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    I just logged on to post this article but you beat me to it. I'm not sure about the scientific data but it won't change my wearing a helmet.

  7. #7
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    What an IDIOT!
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    I want that three inch gap back. I am ditching my helmet.......

    Love the photo where the brain surgeon is putting on the helmet in an incorrect position.

    I hope the kids are not listening to what this guy is saying.......

  9. #9
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    That article proves that even a neurosurgeon can be a total idiot.

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    I've smacked my head on the ground and cracked my helmet. I ended up with some facial scrapes and a minor headache. I think I'll keep wearing my helmet.

  11. #11
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    This neurosurgeon obviously has not pushed the envelope when it comes to cycling.

  12. #12
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    Our entire sport is a calculated risk. God forbid you're not wearing a helmet and every mountain biker you come across has to comment upon it. Keep your opinions to yourself. If you won't go up to another total stranger and give them life tips then don't do it to other mountain bikers either. Most rational people think that riding a mountain bike is really dangerous and stupid, yet you continue to do it. Someone who isn't wearing a helmet is doing the same thing as you, it's just that their acceptable risk level is higher than yours. Feel free to think it's stupid, which it is, but keep it to yourself.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overhillthruthewoods View Post
    Our entire sport is a calculated risk. God forbid you're not wearing a helmet and every mountain biker you come across has to comment upon it. Keep your opinions to yourself. If you won't go up to another total stranger and give them life tips then don't do it to other mountain bikers either. Most rational people think that riding a mountain bike is really dangerous and stupid, yet you continue to do it. Someone who isn't wearing a helmet is doing the same thing as you, it's just that their acceptable risk level is higher than yours. Feel free to think it's stupid, which it is, but keep it to yourself.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by youngstrom View Post
    I apologize if this has already made the round (I took a quick look and didn't see it pop up...). A UK neurologist claims that helmets are too flimsy to provide any real protection (think he is talking road riding) and the article even claims there is research that shows cars drive closer to helmeted riders.

    Cycle helmets are useless, says brain surgeon - Telegraph
    Do you wear a helmet?

    If you do, will that article change your views on wearing a helmet?

    This research into how close a car drives to a cyclist has too many variables.

    Width of the road, cyclists position on the road, traffic coming the other way, who is riding the bike, who is driving the car, etc.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mookie View Post
    Hmmm, I'll have to see the data.
    Well you'll have a hard time finding it because the doctor mentioned didn't do any research of his own. He was speaking at an arts festival and mentioned his opinion that his patients' helmets are too flimsy. He then cited a study that investigated correlation between passing distance and whether the cyclist being passed has a helmet, and backed that up with his own personal story of riding to work every day. This story was so poorly written that it would have been better not written at all.
    Sometimes, I question the value of my content.

  16. #16
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    No brain, no pain.

  17. #17
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    I've needed my helmet only a few times...that I can remember.

  18. #18
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    Well, if you wear it like the dill-hole on the page -

    Neurologist says bike helmets are useless-helmet_2927069b.jpg

    Then yes, the helmet is worthless.



    This headline and article show me again, that degrees, and education do NOT ALWAYS MEAN SOMEONE IS SMART.

    A degree is training. That is it. OUTSIDE of that training, you are pretty much dumb. People think just because someone is a lawyer, doctor, neurosurgeon, or whatever - that they suddenly are to be admired and believed in EVERYTHING they say.

    I do heating and air conditioning. I LOVE the lawyers and doctors who flat out say "I have no idea how these things work" and don't even attempt to impress me with their wiki-degree on a thermodynamic system. They have their specialized training, and are (hopefully) good at it. Outside of that, their degree means nothing to me. That point is proven by this article.


    If he wanted to actually be intelligent - he would try to find out if "all of those injuries from someone wearing a helmet" had a helmet on properly.
    That's like putting a seat belt on, but removing the shoulder strap, and disengaging the locking mechanism. "Seat belts don't do anything!" NO kidding. It is not being used properly. Again, if the idiot pictured on the web page is any indication of how people are wearing helmets, I have no doubt that wearing the helmet (as shown) does absolutely nothing!!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    Well, if you wear it like the dill-hole on the page -

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Then yes, the helmet is worthless.



    This headline and article show me again, that degrees, and education do NOT ALWAYS MEAN SOMEONE IS SMART.

    A degree is training. That is it. OUTSIDE of that training, you are pretty much dumb. People think just because someone is a lawyer, doctor, neurosurgeon, or whatever - that they suddenly are to be admired and believed in EVERYTHING they say.

    I do heating and air conditioning. I LOVE the lawyers and doctors who flat out say "I have no idea how these things work" and don't even attempt to impress me with their wiki-degree on a thermodynamic system. They have their specialized training, and are (hopefully) good at it. Outside of that, their degree means nothing to me. That point is proven by this article.


    If he wanted to actually be intelligent - he would try to find out if "all of those injuries from someone wearing a helmet" had a helmet on properly.
    That's like putting a seat belt on, but removing the shoulder strap, and disengaging the locking mechanism. "Seat belts don't do anything!" NO kidding. It is not being used properly. Again, if the idiot pictured on the web page is any indication of how people are wearing helmets, I have no doubt that wearing the helmet (as shown) does absolutely nothing!!
    WTF, that looks like a kids helmet that guy is putting on. No sh!t that helmet doesn't work. Anyway, the doc is a douche for even implying that helmets are not beneficial.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bro View Post
    Well you'll have a hard time finding it because the doctor mentioned didn't do any research of his own. He was speaking at an arts festival and mentioned his opinion that his patients' helmets are too flimsy. He then cited a study that investigated correlation between passing distance and whether the cyclist being passed has a helmet, and backed that up with his own personal story of riding to work every day. This story was so poorly written that it would have been better not written at all.
    I noticed that, just very limited anecdotal evidence.
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  21. #21
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    1 neurologist?
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  22. #22
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    Doc needs a new car

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That's a solid haircut... looks amazing in that helmet.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyclelicious View Post
    That's a solid haircut... looks amazing in that helmet.
    I can't believe it's not butteh.

  25. #25
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    When I grow up I want to be a neurologizer, too!
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    1 neurologist?
    His brother is the 1 dentist out of 5 that doesn't recommend Orbit gum.
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  27. #27
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    I hit my head on a tree today. My head is fine. So is my helmet for that matter

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  28. #28
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    A helmet or safety thread is a worthwhile use of space here IMO.

    The motorcycle forums are full of pretty legit stats both national and sorted by individual States, yet the debate about To Wear or Not to Wear rages to surprising levels.
    That it involves bikes up to 200 hp potentially taking anyone from zero to dead in 3.3 seconds make this discussion seem respectably civil and friendly.

    Before getting back to motorcycling, I decided to investigate the world of travel on pavement and thankfully had a hint of knowledge or call it suspicion that my many, many years of riding dirt and trail bikes meant zero as a contrast to modern traffic systems, bigger cities and well, just Traffic in general.
    There's more trucks, bigger trucks and more road rage than ever not to mention the electronic tethers everyone has or 7" video screen dash boards that demand attn at all times and replace the 4 knobs or buttons we used to have.

    My motorcycle sat in the garage for almost two years before I schooled myself on things and started looking for riding opportunities with some verve. Prior to that, it was just a short errand to run or a short work commute with limited exposure.

    When I consider the helmets I have for the m/c versus the foam hairpiece many bicyclists wear including myself, I just figure it's what is accepted and may reduce injury if or when it's called to duty.
    I'm okay with that and in fact, will likely ride my mtn bike at a leisurely pace more so that I did 8 or 10 years ago. I know there is more protective equip and padded outfits, full face helmets etc... so when I see riders utilizing it and riding more aggressive and faster, I consider them smart people who knowingly enter a world of risk and mitigate it in and responsible way. Things happen, other riders, drivers make mistakes, tires lose air ,,, whatever.

    I've had two occasions to bounce back. The first was in 1981 and it would have been a good night to wear football shoulder pads a helmet and.... oh yeah, a seatbelt. Got ejected out of my Jeep by a car that ran a red light in August around 11:30 pm.

    In 1995 (April 30 at 1:30 pm) it was a DUI uninsured driver that nailed my car at the driver door, estimated 55- 60 mph and I did have the seatbelt on.

    As long as you know the day or time of day you'll need that helmet or other protective gear,, it's all good.

  29. #29
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    These helmet threads are long on opinion and short on data.
    I know everyone has been taught, "wear a helmet, it is safer".
    It may be true, it may not.
    I would like to see the data rather than conjecture and guesses.
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    If there is a possibility that wearing a helmet doesn't help but can't hurt....Then why not wear one anyway?

    I wear one to protect against low hanging branches more so than a fall. I've ducked on a couple and they bounce right off the helmet. I've bled from doing this without. Lots of low branches around my neck of the woods.
    Also, a helmet will protect the back of your head more so than not which is most crucial and harder to defend yourself against.
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  31. #31
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    Neurologist says bike helmets are useless

    It defies logic that this is debatable.

  32. #32
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    Re: Neurologist says bike helmets are useless

    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    Validate me!
    Yes. There is no difference between you, an a/c repair person, and Einstein, Sagan, Hawking, NDT, etc...except a bit of training.


  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Not a helmet, a Yamakelmet. I dunno, my kid came off his bike last mother's day doing 25, hit pavement and tore the crap out of his elbows and legs. His helmet was abraded clear through the outter shell and there were several cracks. His head (other than being distorted from his "my everything hurts" face) was fine. +1 vote on the wear a helmet side.
    The most expensive bike in the world is still cheaper than the cheapest open heart surgery.

  34. #34
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    Yeah, we need a massive cost government study to tell us what to do about saving our own a$$.

    I think some of us can figure out what stats might lean toward if it's a question of wearing some protective gear as it relates to safety, reduced injury or reduced medical needs / costs. A helmet can be had for $40 but co-pays, cosmetic fixes or X-Rays might end up being the wake up call that substitutes for logic, experience or common sense.

    Reminds me of the seat-belt debate where a car fire or a drowning took lives supposedly due to not getting out because of the seat-belt versus hundred of lives saved every day.

    The angst involved in the debate is logical. Common sense, logic and experience tell us what happens if we don't wear sunscreen, safety glasses when wood-working, gloves when handling wood that slivers etc.... I can't imagine being on the wrong side of that debate.
    I don't ask others why or why not because it's their decision but they'd do a lot better IMO if asked or compelled to comment just to Man Up and say; "it won't happen to me"or "I choose not to mess up my hair and get sweaty" or "I don't mind taking a bit extra risk b/c I don't want to wear that ---- thing."

    Data and stats probably won't show that Yes, skiers and snowboarders still whack trees at crazy speed and the helmet didn't help their thorax or save their life.

    One of the safety strategies I see used every day is the bright colored helmeted motorcyclist. Just by getting a lighter color or a bright day-glo shade, they are more easily spotted on the roads and in traffic. Visual conspicuity is a goal for many riders as a side benefit of wearing a helmet. Their riding position puts that helmet up high where many can see it a few cars ahead and might otherwise just blend in.

    If nothing else, maybe we can agree to not blend in !

  35. #35
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    Neuro Surgeon. I work with surgeons. If there's another group of people who are as arrogant and think they know more, I hope I never meet them.

    He's a neuro surgeon. He's not a physicist. He's not a safety engineer. The only thing he know about head injury is how to fix the damage after it happens.

    Personally I have whacked my head pretty good on tree branches and was glad I was wearing my helmet.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    It defies logic that this is debatable.

    I know, to crush your skull or not to crush? Hmmmm, let me think that over........ It is true that helmets have limited abilities as far as preventing concussions but tests have shown that slowing the brains deceleration rate even milliseconds can make a significant difference in their severity.


    Quote Originally Posted by debaucherous View Post
    These helmet threads are long on opinion and short on data.
    I know everyone has been taught, "wear a helmet, it is safer".
    It may be true, it may not.
    I would like to see the data rather than conjecture and guesses.


    Here's some data, I've thumped my head pretty hard both with and without a helmet and although in both cases it pretty much sucked I can say wholeheartedly that I preferred the helmeted version.

    I'm in the market for a new lid and the MIPS (Multi-directional impact protection system) technology looks interesting.

  37. #37
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    Most of us who wear helmets have been glad on occasion that we did. Myself included.

  38. #38
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    So if that neurosurgeon suggests that not wearing a helmet is just as safe as wearing one, he then if fact is a un-informed and a complete idiot. When riding down mountain passes at seemly warp speeds as we do a lot in my neck of the woods, you do question the safety of your riding gear, team kit and a Giro Atmos helmet, hitting the pavement at 50+, probably not going to do much but I'll take that risk anyway and will always use a helmet.
    One of my worst injuries was a day that " I don't need my helmet, I'm just going to cruise along the beach path", were I took this double jump, a jump that I've done 100 times before, all went wrong right after I launched and landing on my left side of my head, causing severe damage, which I was lucky was not permanent, but did require plastic surgery to my ear, nose and eye. From that day forward ( December 28, 1988) I always wear a helmet and suggest everyone else does too, but it's comes down to everyone's own choice.
    Last edited by Hurricane Jeff; 05-31-2014 at 09:31 PM.

  39. #39
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    Hard data aside, I think there is sufficient anecdotal evidence that wearing a helmet is desirable if you want to mitigate the severity of certain injuries. Personally, after riding motorbikes at speed on the roads for over 40 years, NOT wearing a helmet is just plain idiotic. I have good reason(s) to believe this.
    I do not have a road bicycle, and go out of my way to not have to ride on the road, so wearing a helmet on the road is not an issue for me. If I am riding a trail that has few rocks and is pretty flat, I will often not wear my helmet, and consider that an acceptable risk. In over 50 years of riding bicycles, that has worked for me just fine. However, as soon as I get into any chunk, and things start to get more gravitational, I always put it on. I carry it strapped to my pack. Personally, I find bicycle helmets uncomfortable, and before anyone says I don't have the right one, I have tried many over the years.
    I find it annoying when busybodies decide they need to educate me as to my stupidity if they meet me when I am not wearing my helmet out there. Acceptable risk... for me.
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    During the Middle Ages, probably one of the biggest mistakes was not putting on your armor because you were 'just going down to the corner.'

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  41. #41
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    I've crashed hard enough to crack helmets. Threw them away and bought a new ones. Try doing that with your skull. All the anecdotal I need.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glide the Clyde View Post
    I've crashed hard enough to crack helmets. Threw them away and bought a new ones. Try doing that with your skull. All the anecdotal I need.
    Yeah, I've smacked my head a few times, no doubt the helmet helped me out.
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  43. #43
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    So all those dings and dents on my helmets means they're "useless?" I think not. I'll keep wearing my brain bucket.
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    I can't say that a helmet has ever prevented brain damage or a concussion for myself, but it sure as **** let me keep the skin on my head and face quite a few times. I wouldn't call that useles.

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    I assume that if you hit hard enough, your brain will bounce off the inside of your skull and damage itself. However, there is STRONG evidence proving that wearing a helmet SAVES LIVES and minimizes head trauma.

  46. #46
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    ALLWAYS get a 2nd or 3rd or 4th opinion with neurologist's, you can trust me on this
    ...

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    ALLWAYS get a 2nd or 3rd or 4th opinion with neurologist's, you can trust me on this
    I don't know if I can with that inappropriate use of an apostrophe.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by debaucherous View Post
    These helmet threads are long on opinion and short on data.
    I know everyone has been taught, "wear a helmet, it is safer".
    It may be true, it may not.
    I would like to see the data rather than conjecture and guesses.
    +1

    The article is all "he said, she said". It would be more interesting if the journalist had actually taken the time to support what was said rather than throw some anecdotes into the mix.

    I think most of us wear helmets because we think they help protect us, but I'll admit I've never really seen any data that supports helmets do much, if anything, when needed. (Because I haven't looked, not for any other reason.) It is clearly an interesting observation that drivers think that helmeted riders are more "sensible, predictable and experienced" and drive closer when passing.

    I can see how helmets perhaps give a false sense of security and if a truck bashes into you at 20mph, the helmet could be a considered "too flimsy".

    I'm going to keep wearing my helmet because it makes me feel better (and I look cool too!) but I'm certainly not going to be dogmatic about it and yell "YOU SHOULD WEAR A HELMET YOU IDIOT!!" when I brush cyclist back to the side of the road zooming by in my car anymore.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semitone View Post
    I'm going to keep wearing my helmet because it makes me feel better (and I look cool too!) but I'm certainly not going to be dogmatic about it and yell "YOU SHOULD WEAR A HELMET YOU IDIOT!!" when I brush cyclist back to the side of the road zooming by in my car anymore.
    So are you admitting that you purposefully fail to give cyclists enough room when driving?
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  50. #50
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    I've done 2 backward rolls in past few years and was very thankful for my helmet as it rolled across the jagged rocks. Camel back was excellent padding as well on that last wreck.

  51. #51
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    Cracked a helmet once and was personally fine. Not even a headache afterwards.

    That being said, I will keep the helmet.
    Just stick it in granny and start grinding.

  52. #52
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    Part of the fault lies with the writer of the article, presenting this doctor as a supposed authority on the topic, when as has already been pointed by other posters there's no indication whatsoever that this neurologist has any expertise other than one specific aspect of the cause/effect analysis chain. Further, in any profession there are people who are among the best at what they do, and others who are at the other end of the competency scale. Given his facile statement of opinion which he knew was going to be part of a news story, I have a strong suspicion which end of the scale this doctor sits on. Even though the writer is at "fault" for giving this doctor a platform from which to speak, their editor probably doesn't consider them at fault in any way if it brought more eyeballs to their site. That's the name of the game in media these days. Compete for views, no matter what outlandish content it takes to accomplish it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mookie View Post
    So are you admitting that you purposefully fail to give cyclists enough room when driving?

    Only when they are riding in the road or on the sidewalk. If they are on a trail, I usually leave them alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mookie View Post
    I don't know if I can with that inappropriate use of an apostrophe.
    Ok, maybe you only need a 2nd or 3rd opinion with neurologists.
    ...

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    One of my worst injuries was a day that " I don't need my helmet, I'm just going to cruise along the beach path", were I took this double jump, a jump that I've done 100 times before, all went wrong right after I launched and landing on my left side of my head, causing severe damage, which I was lucky was not permanent, but did require plastic surgery to my ear, nose and eye. From that day forward ( December 28, 1988) I always were a helmet
    I know when someone quotes a day or date and time, it's usually an important event in one's life.
    Anyone who has spent time in the rehab part of a hospital might have the fire under their a$$ to get fixed and out as fast as possible. They can be a sad testimony to fate as others who are less fortunate may never regain full mobility or capacity.
    The most pressing memory of my last crash was a sort of survivors guilt b/c there was little rhyme or reason to why some of us come back and others don't.
    I had heart damage from the impact, broken ribs and a dislocated femur head from the pelvis socket. There was no way to know at the time if I was going to be walking, running or jumping like before. That's part of the fire under the a$$ formula too.

    An 8 mph crack to the noggin can put the lights out for good. Considering a person fainting and falling over could impact the skull close to that momentum. Coming off a bike unexpectedly at even 10 mph could be easily fatal.

    It sounds like most people know the ramifications and might even demand their wife or kids wear protection even if they don't.
    I see some on motorcycles with passengers that wear a helmet while the driver does not. It's a spectacular display of the ' conundrum '.

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    Gumby brain specialist - YouTube
    All the evidence any one would ever need to verify the credibility of the aforementioned report.
    The most expensive bike in the world is still cheaper than the cheapest open heart surgery.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    Ok, maybe you only need a 2nd or 3rd opinion with neurologists.
    Lol, that sounds about right.
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  58. #58
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    Let's have that neurologist genius hop on a bike without a helmet and do something as minor as smack a low hanging tree limb at low speed and see what he thinks...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricko View Post
    Let's have that neurologist genius hop on a bike without a helmet and do something as minor as smack a low hanging tree limb at low speed and see what he thinks...
    Better yet, sit that neurodude down on a chair. We will run an experiment on HIS head.

    Step one:
    Place a cycling helmet on the head of neurodude. Hold a baseball bat horizontally with the meat of the bat directly over his head about 3 feet up. Drop the bat. Check the results. Ask neurodude if he believes the helmet reduced injury or possibly even saved his life. If neurodude denies that the helmet made any difference, proceed to step two.

    Step two:
    Follow the same instructions in the same order as step one but do not place a helmet on neurodude's head this time. After completing the steps, check to see if neurodude is even alive anymore. If he is still alive, I doubt that he will ever be able to answer another question in his lifetime.

    End result: WEAR YOUR HELMET.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by girlonbike View Post
    It defies logic that this is debatable.

    This.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
    Better yet, sit that neurodude down on a chair. We will run an experiment on HIS head.

    Step one:
    Place a cycling helmet on the head of neurodude. Hold a baseball bat horizontally with the meat of the bat directly over his head about 3 feet up. Drop the bat. Check the results.
    Louisville Slugger won't fit

    ...

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    ^How about a bowling ball, then?

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    Guess it doesn't need to be "live"
    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerhill View Post
    Guess it doesn't need to be "live"
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    Of course, the neurosurgeon's head is protected because he has it firmly planted up his ass! Personally, I've been "saved" at least three times by my helmet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ddeand View Post
    Of course, the neurosurgeon's head is protected because he has it firmly planted up his ass! Personally, I've been "saved" at least three times by my helmet.
    I honestly can't count the number of times I've whacked my head with a helmet on and I'm quite sure that if it weren't for a helmet, I'd be dead...or at best, a blithering vegetable!

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    1. The doctor says he's only fallen off his bike once in 40 years. The same for the village idiot. So the doctor is no better than the village idiot.

    2. In treating head injuries, he may find injuries to be equal whether the rider had a helmet or not is a fallacious statistic because he never got to see those riders who walked away or those who were DOA.

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    Or...maybe he sees promoting head injuries as a means of promoting his business.

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    My guess: ashamed helmet wearer, compensating for his illness.

    Neurologist says bike helmets are useless-dark_helmet_unmasked.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    My guess: ashamed helmet wearer, compensating for his illness.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    More likely compensating for his schwarz.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Overhillthruthewoods View Post
    Keep your opinions to yourself. If you won't go up to another total stranger and give them life tips then don't do it to other mountain bikers either.
    Hey, I met one of my girlfriends that way. On second thought, I should have kept my mouth shut!

    But really, I took one fall in particular that really rung my bell. It hate to think what would have happened without a bike helmet.

    What people really should understand is that no helmet can prevent injury from all impacts. A helmet can only do so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zowie View Post
    My guess: ashamed helmet wearer, compensating for his illness.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It's not the flimsiness of the helmet, it's the fit. That helmet is way too big. Does force cars to take a wider berth though.
    The most expensive bike in the world is still cheaper than the cheapest open heart surgery.

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    I wonder if he thought about all the undocumented cases of people who did not have to visit him in the hospital?

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    His opinion was based on research funded by the Drool Cup Manufacturers Association.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flucod View Post
    Sorry to go OT, but this guy thinks it is OK to hit cyclists who are road riders? Did I read that right? WTF!
    It is dangerous to participate in internet forums without an ability to sense sarcasm or humor. Perhaps you need to retake Internet Forums 101.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strafer.2 View Post
    More likely compensating for his schwarz.
    I think you mean shvance, schlong, or putz. Schwarz mean 'black'.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

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    The replies to this thread are beyond ridiculous. The neurologist is just expressing what is commonly held in certain European countries(but not the UK), bicycle helmets are ridiculous, infective and a determent for the adoption of cycling. In the two countries with the highest modal share for cycling in the developed world, the Netherlands and Denmark, people frown on wearing helmets.

    Try to read some of the topics on helmets on the A View from the Cycle Path blog. It is written by a British cycling advocate who eventually moved to the UK and saw first hand how all the stuff he used to believe to promote cycling was wrong(likely helmets fall into this category).

    But I will allow the people who in all likelihood move their bicycle more on the back of a car-rack than they ride, try to wax on about this imagined funny opinion on the part of the neurologist. Then again the misplaced emphasis and even legal stipulation to wear one when cycling, is one of the reasons(the biggest reason is the lack of dedicated infrastructure for cycling) almost no one cycles in North America.

  78. #78
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    This line of thinking goes along with the group that won't wear seatbelts for fear of drowning in case they run off the road, flip upside down and land in a running stream.
    Stick around if you're housebroken...

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    Compare a bicycle helmet to a motorcycle helmet, a world of difference, although we clock somewhat similar speeds in some situations. In order to actually get bicyclists to wear them they had to be sleeker and lighter. If a person is clocking 30-40 mph and eats sh**, will a bicycle helmet protect their skull? Not always. When a "roadie" fails to use the common sense needed to ride the road, t-bones a car and goes airborne, will that helmet actually protect that hard of an impact? Not always. Will our helmets protect the occasional "lower" speed trail crashes? Seems to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by youngstrom View Post
    I apologize if this has already made the round (I took a quick look and didn't see it pop up...). A UK neurologist claims that helmets are too flimsy to provide any real protection (think he is talking road riding) and the article even claims there is research that shows cars drive closer to helmeted riders.

    Cycle helmets are useless, says brain surgeon - Telegraph
    Hey neurologist,
    I'm going to hit you on the head with this bat. You have a choice:
    1. Wear this here helmet
    2. Don't wear this here helmet.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyFokker View Post
    The replies to this thread are beyond ridiculous. The neurologist is just expressing what is commonly held in certain European countries(but not the UK), bicycle helmets are ridiculous, infective and a determent for the adoption of cycling. In the two countries with the highest modal share for cycling in the developed world, the Netherlands and Denmark, people frown on wearing helmets. Try to read some of the topics on helmets on the A View from the Cycle Path blog. It is written by a British cycling advocate who eventually moved to the UK and saw first hand how all the stuff he used to believe to promote cycling was wrong(likely helmets fall into this category). But I will allow the people who in all likelihood move their bicycle more on the back of a car-rack than they ride, try to wax on about this imagined funny opinion on the part of the neurologist. Then again the misplaced emphasis and even legal stipulation to wear one when cycling, is one of the reasons(the biggest reason is the lack of dedicated infrastructure for cycling) almost no one cycles in North America.
    Yes, you are a prime candidate for cycling without a helmet. Sometimes thinning the herd is a good thing.

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    Neurologist says bike helmets are useless

    If i was wearing a helmet on one particular ride, i wouldn't have scars on my head.

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    @tiretracks:
    Probably you are like the typical North American irrelevant so called "cyclist" who moves his bicycle more on some type of car rack to get to the trailhead, group rides, races, the bicycle store for maintenance, etc. And like the typical exemplar of this way, you think cycling is a very dangerous activity.

    Reality is that drivers of motor vehicles are actually more at risk of head injury. Here is a video and blog post by someone who actually cycles more than he drives, in a country where many actually do the same, giving sound arguments against cycling helmets:
    TEDxCopenhagen - Mikael Colville-Andersen - Why We Shouldn't Bike with a Helmet(Youtube)

    Copenhagenize: Driving Without Dying - Helmets for Motorists

    But I guess clever North Americans of MTBR who use their cars to get almost everywhere they need to go whether to work or shopping, know better. They know people should be deterred from cycling, so they can drive easier...

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    I don't understand how bike racks and helmets have anything to do with each other.. Are we supposed to ride our mountain bikes 20 miles to the trailhead? That's like going on a road trip with a dirt bike.

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    There was a thread like this a couple of years ago, where I was first exposed to the idea that anyone could possibly believe that helmets do not offer protection to the head in a crash.

    Yes, there are people like that out there.

    One argument points to the lack of data, and therefore proof, that helmets are good.
    I don't necessarily condemn people who look for proof. That is generally a good thing.

    But, where data is lacking, or where it is difficult to obtain clean data, then one must rely on common sense, or other means, like scientific modeling or experimentation.

    Common sense of course, is not as good a method of decision making as you might think, because as you can see, not everyone has it, and they will argue with you over the most obvious of conclusions.

    But, we also have science to help us, and it would be quite simple to model forces on the head by various types of impacts, and how a helmet changes those forces. We can also do experiments to actually measure forces from impacts on an object with or without a helmet to disperse the force.

    These calculations and experiments have been done, and tell us what common sense tells those who have it; that helmets will reduce the force on the head from an impact.

    So for those who are waiting for data to provide proof, wear a helmet while you are waiting, based on scientific modeling, experimentation, and common sense. If that is not enough reason for you, then perhaps there is something to the theory of herd thinning.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyFokker View Post
    @tiretracks: Probably you are like the typical North American irrelevant so called "cyclist" who moves his bicycle more on some type of car rack to get to the trailhead, group rides, races, the bicycle store for maintenance, etc. And like the typical exemplar of this way, you think cycling is a very dangerous activity. Reality is that drivers of motor vehicles are actually more at risk of head injury. Here is a video and blog post by someone who actually cycles more than he drives, in a country where many actually do the same, giving sound arguments against cycling helmets: TEDxCopenhagen - Mikael Colville-Andersen - Why We Shouldn't Bike with a Helmet(Youtube) Copenhagenize: Driving Without Dying - Helmets for Motorists But I guess clever North Americans of MTBR who use their cars to get almost everywhere they need to go whether to work or shopping, know better. They know people should be deterred from cycling, so they can drive easier...
    I likely ride more in a year than you do in a lifetime, keep posting the same tired link that has nothing what so ever to do with high speed (sometimes extremely high speeds) Mountain Biking. Have fun on your commuter bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawg View Post
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    People that don't wear the proper helmet


    Attachment 898072

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    ...

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    If I rode trails where I didn't feel the 'need' to wear a helmet, I would quit mountain biking due to boredom.
    rOCktoberfest 2015 pt I here
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    Deleted, nested in the wrong place.

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    @ou2mame:
    I do understand and it is very clear. The average sport and recreational rider in North America uses their motor vehicle to get to everywhere they have to, and their bicycles are just toys for fun, sport, fitness. Often they think they need to wear specialized clothing that is tight spandex even though they don't go fast enough to benefit, just to ride and instead of normal shoes, specialized cleats only suitable for cycling that making walking onerous. The extra burden of a helmet is hardly out of place for this milieu. Besides for this demographic everything that makes cycling appear more dangerous and that deters the general public is to their general interest, since they use the car to commute and shop, so if cycling was widespread it would slow them down behind the wheel when they do the actual activities they need to maintain themselves in life. After-all if we had Dutch type restrictions of speed on residential neighborhoods that make mainstream cycling possible, their commute by car would likely be more difficult.

    In a Dutch or Danish forum, the opinion of this neurologist would have been welcomed, because in those countries cycling actually has a decent modal share. But in a North American forum, he is lambasted, because even those who call themselves cyclists want cycling to be perceived as dangerous.

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    Americans aren't making the general public believe cycling is dangerous. We don't have large metropolitan areas covering our entire country. Cycling safe speed limits are unrealistic everywhere. Nyc is 30mph max, sometimes 10. Off the highway obviously. But if you're expecting a mountain biking forum to embrace the idea that helmets are useless, you have unrealistic expectations.

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    He is just trying to drum up new buisness.....get people to stop wearing helmets, they get injured, they come in to get treatment. Walla....new vacation home in Aspen.
    I resolve to constantly assert my honest opinion on anything and everything - whether it is requested or not.
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    head injury's are for idiots and euros
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Neurologist says bike helmets are useless-nhr.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyFokker View Post

    Reality is that drivers of motor vehicles are actually more at risk of head injury. Here is a video and blog post by someone who actually cycles more than he drives, in a country where many actually do the same, giving sound arguments against cycling helmets:
    TEDxCopenhagen - Mikael Colville-Andersen - Why We Shouldn't Bike with a Helmet(Youtube)

    Copenhagenize: Driving Without Dying - Helmets for Motorists

    But I guess clever North Americans of MTBR who use their cars to get almost everywhere they need to go whether to work or shopping, know better. They know people should be deterred from cycling, so they can drive easier...
    That guy's TED talk is really really bad.

    "If word got out how many people die in car crashes, people would stop driving".

    Yeah right. Someone should tell that guy that word did get out, and people are still driving.

    The assumption that the simple promotion of bike helmets stops people from riding is unfounded, although there probably would be some initial transition period where a population would have to accept it. It's like smoking or civil rights. Societal norms can evolve, and make the old norms look archaic.

    He tries to slip in some shady data about how bike helmets actually cause injuries, but the guy is obviously just a biased hack who has no interest in the truth, and is only promoting his own agenda. Being pro-bike is good, but being devious is not.

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    I have not read the whole thread but I am a avid mountain biker who used to commute regularly, and uses a bike as transportation. I live in a Village in BC now but have done plenty of riding in big Canadian cities. My take;

    1. For mountain biking I always wear a helmet on the trail. For climbing logging roads I often strap it on my pack. For riding to and from the trail it is often on my pack. I have smashed about 4 helmets mountain biking and appreciate the protection they afford. Mountain bike and you will wreck.

    2. Commuting on busy roads in the big city. Almost always wore my helmet. Not sure how much good it will do if I'm hit by a monster truck in Redneckville but I felt better.

    3. Running errands off the busy streets I generally don't wear my helmet. Don't care what you think. It is as safe as walking.

    If I crash mountain biking it is low speed and a bike helmet works well. For transportation I think it hinders people and makes cycling seem dangerous. It saves a few lives but probably does more harm by keeping cycling seem dangerous. My wife lived in the Netherlands for 4 years and used a bike for transportation and it took some convincing that there are places where it is wise to wear one. If we had more of a cycling culture I would wear it even less. Unfortunately in North America the car is King. It is very true that most North American cyclists see their bike as recreation and fitness not transportation.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    That guy's TED talk is really really bad.

    "If word got out how many people die in car crashes, people would stop driving".

    Yeah right. Someone should tell that guy that word did get out, and people are still driving.
    I can't imagine you're advancing the idea that as long as people realize they do not care about endangering themselves and others, that makes it good and right?
    If that is true, it certainly makes it reality, but I have to doubt many people think of such a mentality as positive...

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyFokker View Post
    almost no one cycles in North America.
    Hmmmmm

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyFokker View Post
    @ou2mame:
    I do understand and it is very clear. The average sport and recreational rider in North America uses their motor vehicle to get to everywhere they have to, and their bicycles are just toys for fun, sport, fitness. Often they think they need to wear specialized clothing that is tight spandex even though they don't go fast enough to benefit,..
    I understand the point you are attepting to make, but you are missing a key point.
    The people here for the most part to do not ride along a 7 mph on bike path in jeans or shorts. Most here are out there to ride for sport. So we push it. When you push it you need to the right gear to get the job done.

    For the most part people in USA do not use bike as basic transportation like they do in other places. People here use cars as basic transportation and there is a analogy with cars that I think will help your point.

    I drive my car every day in regular clothes and regular shoes. I wear a 3pt seat belt that does not mess up my clothes and allows me to be comfortable and reach things in the car. It is easy to get in and easy to get out.

    However I also race cars. When I race my car is on a track and is a very different experience. I have special shoes, special clothes (including special underwear), gloves and a special helmet with a $1000 neck support device. I also have to climb in the car around multiple bars of steel and have 6 point harness that straps me in very tight to my dedicated racing seat (which does not move forward or back without unbolting it). Once strapped in I sweat just sitting there and I can't reach the rear view mirror, but I can reach a little handle that will pull my fire system to dump retardant all over me and various places the car. Plus I need to replace the helmet and seat belts ever few years just because they get "old". This is the safest way to drive a car, but not most convenient.


    Now why is there a difference? On the public roads I am not pushing hard I am always keeping in control. Sure bad things can happen, but it just not practical to use race level safety gear in road cars so people don't.

    So what does that mean for cycling? If you are riding hard then use the right gear. That could be on the road or dirt, but wear it. I can see your point for casual bike path stuff sub 10 mph. My thinking is that riding at a brisk walking or run pace on very stable terrain does not require a helmet. You could fall while walking just the same and we don't wear helmets for that. However when you start mtn biking the way most of do where we are challenging ourselves on the trails or are going fast on a road bike then the risk of crashing goes up just like when our get out of a road car and start flying around a race track.
    Joe
    '12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5",Vassago Verhauen SS 29" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

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    Re: Neurologist says bike helmets are useless

    ^ You lost me @ special underwear.

    What makes them so special? Shart resistant, methane filtered, self-cleaning, our do they transport you to another solar system?

    Back to the show...

    (tapa)

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyin_W View Post
    ^ You lost me @ special underwear.

    What makes them so special? Shart resistant, methane filtered, self-cleaning, our do they transport you to another solar system?

    Back to the show...

    (tapa)

    OT... but fire resistant Nomex. Not the most breathable, but should a fire come up it makes a difference. I have a friend who had fire in his car. He needed pig skin graft on the back of his neck due to the fire. Everywhere else was fine since the nomex clothing did it's job. He decided to skip the nomex balaclava that session and paid the price. When I suit up the only place of exposed skin is a small are around my mouth and eyes. I have tried, but I can breath well through nomex balaclava so I pull it down below my mouth. I do increase the risk, but at least I can breath. Even in racing there is a balance of safety gear and debate about what to wear vs the risk and how roll cage design can help or hurt depending on a specific incident.
    Joe
    '12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5",Vassago Verhauen SS 29" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

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