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  1. #1
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    Mountain Bike Lube

    It's that time to buy some new chain lube again. What is eveyone's favortite? Dry, Wet, Wax, Teflon, etc.?

  2. #2
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    I have always used Rock and Roll Gold...

    The trick with this lube is to put it on in a warm temp (or else the wax is too solidified), put it on liberally, and completely wipe it down until your chain is clean and dry. Give it a little time to dry thoroughly and you are good to go...

    SPP

  3. #3
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    29ers don't require lube.

  4. #4
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    Wet lube actually lubricates your chain much better than any wax lube can, but requires more work. But if you use it sparingly and can follow directions, it provides far superior and longer lasting lubrication. I prefer biodegradable lubricants since chain lubes are in direct contact with the environment (versus bearings grease or fork oil for instance). Pedros Chainj, Ernesto Lube, Green Oil, and Phil's Biolube come to mind for off the shelf product. I mix my own from a biodegradable bar and chain oil cut with canola oil and it has worked as well as any wet lube (bio or not) that I have ever used in 18 years of mountain biking.

  5. #5
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    +1 on the wet lube ideas above. I put it on the night before, then wipe down b4 riding the next day. It is surprising how little comes off on the rag after setting up overnight.

    Currently using Finish Line Wet, with a little brake cleaner sprayed into the bottle to thin it and help flash off the light ends, leaving the "real" lube behind, in the pins and rollers where it belongs.

    I love the idea and pure cleanliness of the dry lubes, and they work great as long as I'm not riding over an hour and a half -- which just doesn't happen very often.
    Whining is not a strategy.

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    Boeing T-9 spray. Easy to clean ... lasts a long time. Also, there's a degreaser called "El Duke" which is both a fantastic cleaner and lubricant. These are my two favorites. The T=9 is remarkable at preventing rust too on other exposed parts. Just wipe a little on things like cables and other exposed metal once in awhile and it really works. Believe me, I live in Hawaii which is ground zero for corrosion.

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    dumode tech

  8. #8
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    I personally use Pedro's Syn Lube and have for over a year. I have nothing but praise for it. A nice synthetic wet lube is very versatile and puts up with most any climate.

    However i will say this, proper maintanence (ie cleaning and lubing often) is infinitely more important than the lube you are utilizing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSLKauai
    Boeing T-9 spray. Easy to clean ... lasts a long time. Also, there's a degreaser called "El Duke" which is both a fantastic cleaner and lubricant. These are my two favorites. The T=9 is remarkable at preventing rust too on other exposed parts.
    If it's good enough for aircraft parts - it's good enough for me. I love this stuff too.

  10. #10
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    I use Land 'o Lakes buttery spread. It keeps my chain rollers smiling.

  11. #11
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    chain-l oil #5 lasts and lasts

  12. #12
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    I've always used Triflow.
    My Bike: '15 Trek FX 7.2
    My Blog: http://http://kona0197.wordpress.com/

  13. #13
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    im pretty sure i use white lightning easy lube right now..it works alot better than the grease that was on the chain when i got it..seems to work really well.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by slalomnorth65
    It's that time to buy some new chain lube again. What is eveyone's favortite? Dry, Wet, Wax, Teflon, etc.?
    Once a dry lube is displaced it stays that way. Wet lube will flow back between the rollers where it is needed.

    Actually, researchers at John's Hopkins did drivetrain efficiency tests with various lubes. Turns out that a clean chain with NO LUBE is nearly as efficient as pretty much anything else. It led researchers to speculate that the value of the lube is actually to keep out impurities.

    After I read that, there was no more dry lube. Besides, I was going through chains way too fast with the dry and it required constant reapplication.

  15. #15
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    Was the test conducted by Dr. Hannibal Lecter?

  16. #16
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    White Lightning, my old mtb lasted me over 10 years and I never once had to clean the drivetrain or replace any of it. 300 dust filled miles on the Sultan (one year old now) also using White Lightning and drive train still is clean and quiet.

    Of course I lived in Colorado and AZ so moisture isn't a concern, don't know how it holds up to water.

  17. #17
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    "Finishline Wet (Cross Country) lube" is the best lube there is hands down. I have been mountain biking 24 years have tried almost everything. A lot lubricants have hit the trash can pretty fast because they just didn't offer the same lubricating properties as Finishline Cross country. Here is a quick review!

    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/catego...wet-lube-28377

    Here is a "tip" for you!

    Be sure to clean your chain completely with a mechanical chain cleaner and a good degreaser. Be sure to rinse the chain clean and wipe dry. (Note: Old warn out socks are ideal for chain and derailleur cleaning. (BTW finish line has two really good youtube clips on how to clean and lube your front and rear derailleurs). Not exactly the most environmentally friendly, but hey cycling season is short. And no I don’t work for Finishline!)

    http://www.youtube.com/user/caeasura#g/a

    Once the chain is sparkling clean and dry. Place a drop of lube on each pin and let capilary action do its thing. Once all the pins have a drop of lubricant on them, spin the cranks for a minute or two to work the lubricant into the chain and let stand over night or longer (unless your in a hurry). Before your next ride remove all the excess lube with a clean rag by spinning the crank and chain. I ussally do this for a minimum of two minutes. As a last step I will spray some "Break Clean" into the rag just to get the excess oil of the chain links. "Break Clean" drys really really fast so it will leave the lubricant between the pin and roller where you want it. Instead of or after using the Break Clean you can apply a little Finishlines Dry Teflon lube to help reduce friction between the chain links and the cassette. It really helps make the drive train whisper quiet and shift like a hot knife through butter.

    Check out Stephans blog it's where I picked up a lot of lubricating tips. He is obviosly payed by Finishline so can take him with grain of salt. But he has a lot of good tips and great advice there.

    http://maintainthatride.blogspot.com/

    I hope that helps!

    PAX CHRISTI

  18. #18
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    ^^^^ has wayyy to much time on his hands to go through that BS

    I use regular motor oil, whatever is laying around, its a friggin lubricant which is all that matters, the only thing that really should be done with chain lube is to apply it AFTER you are done riding while the chain is somewhat warm, helps the lube adhere to the chain, It should also be applied after riding in the wet.

  19. #19
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    Thank you farmer Brown!

    And if motor oil doesn't work you can always try KY Jelly!

    (Note: Motor oil is designed to work in a hot internal combustion engine not on a bicycle chain!)

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sopwithcamel
    And if motor oil doesn't work you can always try KY Jelly!

    (Note: Motor oil is designed to work in a hot internal combustion engine not on a bicycle chain!)
    lol yea ok their "I have to sped money on something that says specifically what its for"

    I have used it since my first peddle bike with training wheels, works just fine. My personal favorite and what hands down has worked the best as I mentioned on another thread is NAPA chain and cable lube, used it when I had the fun park and nothing lubricated the go kart chains as well (that I personally found) but IM to lazy to purchase any now

    Of note, Wd 40 not a true lube, and I personally do not use it except for cleaning one, however I know people in the motorcycle community who use it regularly and are getting 10s of thousands of miles out a chain, could be that all a person needs to do is keep their chain lubed regardless of what type they use, novel concept, but whatever makes you sleep best at night

  21. #21
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    another vote for triflo, cheap, easy and it smells like bannanas

  22. #22
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    Actually, researchers at John's Hopkins did drivetrain efficiency tests with various lubes. Turns out that a clean chain with NO LUBE is nearly as efficient as pretty much anything else. It led researchers to speculate that the value of the lube is actually to keep out impurities.
    MBA did a similar test and said that the chain actually doesn't need any lube at all.
    My Bike: '15 Trek FX 7.2
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197
    MBA did a similar test and said that the chain actually doesn't need any lube at all.
    Would love to see that test, but in the real world rust is of course one of your chains main enemies which is one of the main purposes of lube, to help resist that.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197
    MBA did a similar test and said that the chain actually doesn't need any lube at all.
    The JH test were done in a (clean) lab and only tested efficiency...not wear (though efficiency measures friction which would be an indicator of wear), if all you do is ride your bike on a trainer in a sterile environment, then you probably don't need lube.

    But as the testers admitted:
    But it (lube) may contribute to energy efficiency in the rugged outdoors. "The role of the lubricant, as far as we can tell, is to take up space so that dirt doesn't get into the chain," Spicer says. "The lubricant is essentially a clean substance that fills up the spaces so that dirt doesn't get into the critical portions of the chain where the parts are very tightly meshed. But in lab conditions, where there is no dirt, it makes no difference
    Anyone who has suffered from severe chain suck as their lubricant has failed can attest to its critical role in keeping dirt out of their chain
    Last edited by mtnbiker72; 04-05-2010 at 04:40 PM.

  25. #25
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    mtnbiker72's formula of bio-degradable chainsaw chain lube cut with Canola oil . Works awesome and nicer to Mother Nature . Thanks for the Canola oil tip .

  26. #26
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    I dig wd40.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by glitz
    I dig wd40.
    Absolutely the worst thing you can use as a lubricant. WD40 is better suited to stubborn nuts and screws.
    My Bike: '15 Trek FX 7.2
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  28. #28
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    Here is a link to a video as why you should never ever use WD40 as chain lubricant. Personally I think you should be dragged out into the street and horse wipped for saying that.

    http://bicycletutor.com/no-wd40-bike-chain/

  29. #29
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    But it's an oil and it'sbetter than nothing, right? It degreases my chain and applies a new, light oil, and doesn't attract dirt.

  30. #30
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    glitz it is worse then nothing because WD40 removes any oil that was still on the chain! Try the technique I wrote in great detail above with Finishline Wet with the dry teflon chaser and you will notice a big difference in chain quietness and shifting.

  31. #31
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    The WD in WD40 stands for Water Displacement. All WD40 does is remove things - it doesn't add nothing. Lube is pretty cheap. No excuse to go get some.
    My Bike: '15 Trek FX 7.2
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sopwithcamel
    "Finishline Wet (Cross Country) lube" is the best lube there is hands down. I have been mountain biking 24 years have tried almost everything. A lot lubricants have hit the trash can pretty fast because they just didn't offer the same lubricating properties as Finishline Cross country. Here is a quick review!

    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/catego...wet-lube-28377

    Here is a "tip" for you!

    Be sure to clean your chain completely with a mechanical chain cleaner and a good degreaser. Be sure to rinse the chain clean and wipe dry. (Note: Old warn out socks are ideal for chain and derailleur cleaning. (BTW finish line has two really good youtube clips on how to clean and lube your front and rear derailleurs). Not exactly the most environmentally friendly, but hey cycling season is short. And no I donít work for Finishline!)

    http://www.youtube.com/user/caeasura#g/a

    Once the chain is sparkling clean and dry. Place a drop of lube on each pin and let capilary action do its thing. Once all the pins have a drop of lubricant on them, spin the cranks for a minute or two to work the lubricant into the chain and let stand over night or longer (unless your in a hurry). Before your next ride remove all the excess lube with a clean rag by spinning the crank and chain. I ussally do this for a minimum of two minutes. As a last step I will spray some "Break Clean" into the rag just to get the excess oil of the chain links. "Break Clean" drys really really fast so it will leave the lubricant between the pin and roller where you want it. Instead of or after using the Break Clean you can apply a little Finishlines Dry Teflon lube to help reduce friction between the chain links and the cassette. It really helps make the drive train whisper quiet and shift like a hot knife through butter.

    Check out Stephans blog it's where I picked up a lot of lubricating tips. He is obviosly payed by Finishline so can take him with grain of salt. But he has a lot of good tips and great advice there.

    http://maintainthatride.blogspot.com/

    I hope that helps!

    PAX CHRISTI
    Seriously, that's a LOT OF EFFORT to clean the chain. All I do is remove the chain (SRAM power link chains are best for this) then soak it in some citrus degreaser, rinse it off and spray Boeing T-9 on it. Chain is always whisper quiet and it doesn't get your fingers all mucked up with black crud when you touch it. theT-9 seems to do a good job of shedding sand, which is an issue in Hawaii. I think if I was looking at all the steps you put into cleaning the chain, I'd put off chain cleaning for weeks ... :-)

  33. #33
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    MSL Kauai.......

    It just sounds like a lot of work because I went into great detail and gave some other tips along the way. A practiced hand can do it in under 5 minutes not including the waiting over night part to ensure that every nano of the chain is lubricated. Also your not doing every ride only when your chain needs it or when you are washing your bike.

  34. #34
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    I actually take it a step farther by scrubbing each link after it has soaked in degreaser overnight. I then apply Triflow to each link.
    My Bike: '15 Trek FX 7.2
    My Blog: http://http://kona0197.wordpress.com/

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by sopwithcamel
    MSL Kauai.......

    It just sounds like a lot of work because I went into great detail and gave some other tips along the way. A practiced hand can do it in under 5 minutes not including the waiting over night part to ensure that every nano of the chain is lubricated. Also your not doing every ride only when your chain needs it or when you are washing your bike.
    No doubt about it, your system is thorough and solid. I'm pretty sold on the Boeing T-9 spray. My chain is staying cleaner longer than it ever has. I like sprays because it's fast and I don't have to go one drop, one link at a time.

    Another really cool product is El Duke degreaser. That stuff degreases absolutely anything and as a side benefit, it's a lubricant too. If you use a citrus degreaser then just dip the chain in the El Duke, you get another layer of cleaning and it's totally lubricated. It's amazing stuff.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197
    I actually take it a step farther by scrubbing each link after it has soaked in degreaser overnight. I then apply Triflow to each link.
    IF you REALLY want to get serious about chain maintenance and get off the chain cleaning slacker bench, here you go ...

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html

    LMAO when I first saw this!

  37. #37
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    I got me that purple stuff
    "If women don't find handsome , they should at least find you handy."-Red Green

  38. #38
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    Seems to me all the hate against wd40 is just everyone agreeing with a few loud people who sound like they know what they are talking about. No lubricating properties? really? fine then, if it leaves nothing behind, then you should have no problem spraying it all around the house. Spray it on your computer monitor, it'll be great. Have you ever actually used the stuff? Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a part of a hobby that excludes people just because they don't waste their money on the most expensive of everything.

    When i was younger, i only used wd40 on bikes and guess what, i never ever ever ever had to replace a chain. ever. Its already been stated clearly that, so long as there are no foreign contaminants, a chain doesn't even need lubrication. Therefore, your argument that wd40 doesn't work for that reason is moot. Maybe it just works the opposite way of normal lubes which prevent dirt from getting in, wd40 actively washes out the dirt every time you apply it. Maybe some people, possibly due to where and how they ride, have no use for the same lube you do. Seems like the same situation as in the tire forums, except that you don't see people there claiming that the so-and-so tire gets zero traction at all in any conditions anywhere.

    Anyway, to the OP, i use pedro's ice wax, a dry lube, because otherwise my chain absorbs sand like a sponge and i can't stand the grinding noise. Once i learned how best to apply it and such, my drivetrain has been running great(and quiet) no matter what i ride through. It all depends on what your needs are.
    Jarrod

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrod22
    Seems to me all the hate against wd40 is just everyone agreeing with a few loud people who sound like they know what they are talking about. No lubricating properties? really? fine then, if it leaves nothing behind, then you should have no problem spraying it all around the house. Spray it on your computer monitor, it'll be great. Have you ever actually used the stuff? Sometimes I feel ashamed to be a part of a hobby that excludes people just because they don't waste their money on the most expensive of everything.

    When i was younger, i only used wd40 on bikes and guess what, i never ever ever ever had to replace a chain. ever. Its already been stated clearly that, so long as there are no foreign contaminants, a chain doesn't even need lubrication. Therefore, your argument that wd40 doesn't work for that reason is moot. Maybe it just works the opposite way of normal lubes which prevent dirt from getting in, wd40 actively washes out the dirt every time you apply it. Maybe some people, possibly due to where and how they ride, have no use for the same lube you do. Seems like the same situation as in the tire forums, except that you don't see people there claiming that the so-and-so tire gets zero traction at all in any conditions anywhere.
    .......
    If they have to apply it every time they get the chain dirty(assuming every ride, this being a mtb forum), they're going to be spending a lot more money using WD40 than they will using other lubes that only generally need to be replaced at most every handful of rides.... The lubrication WD40 leaves behind is not thick/durable enough to keep out dirt and stay in place at the pivots on a chain.

    I've found this stuff to last a really long time, and it's fairly cheap. You can probably find it, or something similar, at your local hardware store.

    http://www.laco.com/productDetail43.aspx

  40. #40
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    I'm just going to start replacing my chain with a new one after every ride.

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    To say that WD40 has "no lubricating properties" is idiotic. Spray the stuff on your hands and you'll know immediately that it's oily ... take a super squeaky chain and spray some WD40 on it and you'll see and hear immediate improvement. Spray WD40 on a squeaky hinge or lock and the change is immediate.

    WD40 will lubricate a chain ... as good as the most expensive high tech stuff? Who knows. But it's certainly better than letting a chain get rusty and squeaky.

  42. #42
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    Yet a bottle of Triflow is cheaper and made for mountain bikes unlike WD40. What's next are we going to hear people say that liquid wrench is good for a chain?

    By the way the experts in the business say stay away from WD40.
    My Bike: '15 Trek FX 7.2
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  43. #43
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    Water Displacement 40 gallon....yeah everyone knows the origin to the thing, and it does displace water but then so does every oil product. The problem lies in the fact its a super light oil that doesn't last very long in a high usage department like a bicycle chain. Its great for door hinges which move thru only a small range and never encounter mud or water but not much else.

    Personally I prefer 10W40 for chain oil... its definitely meant for metal on metal parts, and its cheap.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker72
    I mix my own from a biodegradable bar and chain oil cut with canola oil and it has worked as well as any wet lube (bio or not) that I have ever used in 18 years of mountain biking.
    What ratios are you working with? Also, have you ever cut the chain lube with anything else? I read somewhere recently someone used chainsaw lube cut with break cleaner. I have about a gallon of the stuff that I would like to find a use for and I figure it should last me pretty much the rest of my life especially if I cut it making even more volume of lube.

  45. #45
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    This is one of the better articles I have read on Chain Maintenance an lube, ya'll might want to take five minutes and read it.

    http://www.motorcycleanchor.com/moto...mc_chains.html

    FYI people WD 40 is rate as a light lubricant, make of that what you will.

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    I'm not following because it was submitted that a dry, non-lubed, clean chain operates the most efficiently. So if the chain is clean, then what problem do people have with WD40?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr
    This is one of the better articles I have read on Chain Maintenance an lube, ya'll might want to take five minutes and read it.

    http://www.motorcycleanchor.com/moto...mc_chains.html

    FYI people WD 40 is rate as a light lubricant, make of that what you will.
    Interesting. This article mainly talks about O-ring motorcycle chains which are very different than bicycle chains. The chains he refers to as "open-link" chains are closer to what are found on bicycles. In the article the author says WD40 is OK for these chains.

    FTFA...
    "WD-40 however, is perfectly suited to cleaning old-style open-link chains."

  48. #48
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    the key word in that quote is cleaning...not lubricating

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by glitz
    But it's an oil and it'sbetter than nothing, right? It degreases my chain and applies a new, light oil, and doesn't attract dirt.

    WD-40 has lubricating properties and contains lubricating compounds....

    Unfortunately because it is so thin it does not stay around for very long....hence lack of lubrication...

    I get it by the gallon tin....

    Check out the residue at the bottom really heavy smooth lubricating oil, but note most of that stays in the tin, cause the carrying fluid is so light.

    I use Triflow teflon in the summer and Pedro's Ice wax in the winter.

  50. #50
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    I don't know about you guys but have you felt your chain after you put no lube on it for a while, it gets bone dry. Not to mention without any lube during a wet ride (after) your chain gets rusty, which will make the links not pivot as well. So whatever those tests are on MBA and such, I think it's stupid....

  51. #51
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    Well they did say the factory oil was good enough for the life of the chain.
    My Bike: '15 Trek FX 7.2
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    Quote Originally Posted by slalomnorth65
    I don't know about you guys but have you felt your chain after you put no lube on it for a while, it gets bone dry. Not to mention without any lube during a wet ride (after) your chain gets rusty, which will make the links not pivot as well. So whatever those tests are on MBA and such, I think it's stupid....
    Some tests are ridiculous. A bone dry chain gets wet. dusty then rusty almost immediately so in a practical real world application, a dry clean chain is meaningless. What the various lubes do is help the chain to work well as dust, dirt and water splash around on it.

    Although I'm not advocating using WD40 as I use either Phil's oil or Boeing T9 ... but, to say that WD40 has NO LUBRICATING VALUE is equally as ridiculous. It might not be as good as other products, but it's a whole lot better than nothing at all.

  53. #53
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    IMHO WD 40 has no place in the cycling lubicant arsenal , especially with so many viable alternatives .

  54. #54
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    I use WD to help cleain my chain, usually I will spray it on, take the bike for a ride, come back, respray, and then clean. I do that with my motorycle and cycle, seems to work fine for me for that use. I personally would not use it as a regular lubricant (used motor oil rocks :P) but it is as noted, better than nothing.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS
    IMHO WD 40 has no place in the cycling lubicant arsenal , .
    "cycling lubricant arsenal" --- LMAO!!!

    That's classic! Most likely, the people on these forums represent the top .001% of the most informed mountain bikers in the country. For the rest of the riders that occasionally hop on their bikes and for the most part, park them in the garage ... an occasional squirt of WD40 is probably better than what most of those bikes get ... which is nothing.

    Personally, I'm sold on Boeing T9

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSLKauai
    Most likely, the people on these forums represent the top .001% of the most informed mountain bikers in the country.


    bwaaahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHA!!!!!!!! I nearly peed myself.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSLKauai
    Some tests are ridiculous. A bone dry chain gets wet. dusty then rusty almost immediately so in a practical real world application, a dry clean chain is meaningless. What the various lubes do is help the chain to work well as dust, dirt and water splash around on it.

    Although I'm not advocating using WD40 as I use either Phil's oil or Boeing T9 ... but, to say that WD40 has NO LUBRICATING VALUE is equally as ridiculous. It might not be as good as other products, but it's a whole lot better than nothing at all.
    The John's Hopkins people didn't suggest not oiling your chain. They hypothesized that the primary value of the oil/lubricant was as a contaminant barrier. And of course, once there are contaminants in there, than you need the lube.

    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker72
    The JH test were done in a (clean) lab and only tested efficiency....
    I think that was pretty much implied when I said clean.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi
    The John's Hopkins people didn't suggest not oiling your chain. They hypothesized that the primary value of the oil/lubricant was as a contaminant barrier. And of course, once there are contaminants in there, than you need the lube.
    That is true, but friction still exists, the more friction, the more wear.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr
    That is true, but friction still exists, the more friction, the more wear.
    I don't think this is lost on anyone. The tests showed that the clean metal on metal contact was a low friction interface and that adding lube did not improve it.

    I guess I should state my point in all of this. I think all of this (plus my personal experience) points to the idea that so called "dry" lubes are not effective at preserving an low friction , long lasting chain.

    The "dry lube" justification is saying that wet lubes carry contaminants into the rollers. I did this for a season and found that I used twice as many chains and the chain frequently became squeaky and required reapplication of lubricant. The John's Hopkins results leads me to believe the reason is there was no contaminant barrier to keep the grit out of the rollers. Once a dry lube "dries" it doesn't flow. So once it's displaced, it's effectively gone.

    I'm getting far better results out my sticky Pedros Syn Lube. And I suspect this is what the people using thinned chainsaw oil are experiencing as well. The stuff is self binding and forms a barrier. Dirt might stick to the bits on the plating, but it's really not getting moved into the rollers the same way it does on "dry lube" chain with just as much contaminant exposure which effectively has nothing filling the gaps between the plating and the rollers to keep it out.

    Thick and sticky. I'm sticking to it.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197
    What's next are we going to hear people say that liquid wrench is good for a chain?
    Actually, Liquid Wrench is a brand, not a specific product, although people tend to associate the brand name with their rust penetrating spray, which is not a lubricant in the context here.

    They do make a light lube with teflon that I used for many, many years. One can would cost me $2 and last a full season, spraying the chain every ride. I had to give it up when I got a bike with disc brakes since there is no reasonable way to use it without risking contaminating the brake pads.

    -Pete
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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi
    I don't think this is lost on anyone. The tests showed that the clean metal on metal contact was a low friction interface and that adding lube did not improve it.
    I would absolutely love to see this study, I have worked with equipment my entire life, metal on metal simply will wear.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi
    I think that was pretty much implied when I said clean.
    The point being, people ride their mountain bikes in the dirt so the study is kind of worthless...they did absolutely ZERO testing in a real world environment. They make assumptions on chain lubrication without any testing backing it up.

    Another factor they did not take into effect is chain line...theirs was perfect which puts no side load on the chain...so bassically this test ONLY applies to single speed bikes in a clean environment. I'd be willing to bet lubrication plays more of a role than displacing dirt when your chain is side loaded a bit.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr
    I would absolutely love to see this study, I have worked with equipment my entire life, metal on metal simply will wear.
    they tested in the lab using an infared camera to measure heat caused by friction.
    they didnt say anything about wear, the test was to see what if any differences between lubes could be found. They tested all different types of chain lube and tested without any lube. in those circumstances there was no measurable difference in friction/ heat

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    as far as WD40 for your chain

    why not?
    wd40 is a light penetratimg lubricant, perfect for cleaning a chain.Not for lube. Will it work? sure , but not for long I think the confusion here is that you shouldnt use it on anything that has grease because it will strip out the grease, but for a cleaner its fine. However there are alot of less toxic cleaners. and alot of better lubes

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr
    I would absolutely love to see this study, I have worked with equipment my entire life, metal on metal simply will wear.
    I think a valid question is what type of load was the chain subjected to in the test? Under small enough load, a clean, unlubed chain might have practically infinte life. Friction will in large part be proportional to the load.

    Also, chains do not ship unlubed - they're slathered in grease, so hopefully the testers thoroughly cleaned the 'unlubed' chain rather than assume a new chain was not lubed.

    -Pete
    I can barely get my mouth around it.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan0
    they tested in the lab using an infared camera to measure heat caused by friction.
    they didnt say anything about wear, the test was to see what if any differences between lubes could be found. They tested all different types of chain lube and tested without any lube. in those circumstances there was no measurable difference in friction/ heat
    I did a google, I found nothing, so feel free to post it up if you have a link

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr
    I did a google, I found nothing, so feel free to post it up if you have a link

    http://www.jhu.edu/news_info/news/ho...ug99/bike.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by dan0
    but for a cleaner its fine. However there are alot of less toxic cleaners. and alot of better lubes
    And I might add much more economical cleaners and lubes

  69. #69
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    I think the answer may lie here ,


    The researcher speculates that a bicycle lubricant does not play a critical role under clean lab conditions, using a brand new chain. But it may contribute to energy efficiency in the rugged outdoors.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker72
    The point being, people ride their mountain bikes in the dirt so the study is kind of worthless...they did absolutely ZERO testing in a real world environment. They make assumptions on chain lubrication without any testing backing it up.
    .
    <sarcasm>
    Really, wow. No one here knows that we ride mountain bikes in dirt. I was completely unaware of it especially when I was talking about the infiltration of contaminants. Or didn't you realize that meant dirt?
    </sarcasm>

    An essential fact of the scientific method is that you remove all other variables when you study a particular topic. So they weren't really interested in chainline. They were studying the effectiveness of one lube on another. They were using a CLEAN chain as a control. They discovered that the control was nearly as effective as the lubrication.

    So now we have a FACT. You combine that FACT with other FACTS to make knowledge. You seem to have the approach of combining all the variables, doing no analytic measurement and then expousing an opinion. So it's hardly worthless.

    True the claimant has the burden of proof. But I think you're implicitly espousing a "common knowledge" that is put in serious doubt by these FACTS. Perhaps a CLEAN drivetrain will become less efficient under side-loading. I don't know. But I get the gist you're assuming that it does.

    At the end of the day these researchers didn't seem to address a chain maintenance schedule. They were discovered that some common assumptions about lubrication were incorrect and hypothesized alternative ideas to fill the void. I don't think that what you're offering has any more value.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS
    I think the answer may lie here ,


    The researcher speculates that a bicycle lubricant does not play a critical role under clean lab conditions, using a brand new chain. But it may contribute to energy efficiency in the rugged outdoors.
    Yep. The researcher clearly realizes that he was performing a lab test and not a real world test. The data has value in that context.

    It's odd, however, that he goes on to wonder why bike manufacturers don't publish efficienvcy specs. We all know the answer is similar to why it's hard to find something even more objective such as bike weights...it's simply too big a can o' worms to let looose: there are far too many varibles, and the end result would be a confused rather than informed consumer.

    -Pete
    I can barely get my mouth around it.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS
    I think the answer may lie here ,


    The researcher speculates that a bicycle lubricant does not play a critical role under clean lab conditions, using a brand new chain. But it may contribute to energy efficiency in the rugged outdoors.
    OMG .. the first time I typed that one. If I had hair I'd pull it out.

    What part of [CLEAN!!!!! do you folks not understand?

  73. #73
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    Hey

    Quote Originally Posted by willtsmith_nwi
    <sarcasm>
    Really, wow. No one here knows that we ride mountain bikes in dirt. I was completely unaware of it especially when I was talking about the infiltration of contaminants. Or didn't you realize that meant dirt?
    </sarcasm>

    An essential fact of the scientific method is that you remove all other variables when you study a particular topic. So they weren't really interested in chainline. They were studying the effectiveness of one lube on another. They were using a CLEAN chain as a control. They discovered that the control was nearly as effective as the lubrication.

    So now we have a FACT. You combine that FACT with other FACTS to make knowledge. You seem to have the approach of combining all the variables, doing no analytic measurement and then expousing an opinion. So it's hardly worthless.

    True the claimant has the burden of proof. But I think you're implicitly espousing a "common knowledge" that is put in serious doubt by these FACTS. Perhaps a CLEAN drivetrain will become less efficient under side-loading. I don't know. But I get the gist you're assuming that it does.

    At the end of the day these researchers didn't seem to address a chain maintenance schedule. They were discovered that some common assumptions about lubrication were incorrect and hypothesized alternative ideas to fill the void. I don't think that what you're offering has any more value.
    Your ranting is useless garbage, I know about scientific method and lab testing as I work with it everyday in my field. I see product that fails consistently in the field that passed all kinds of tests in labs...the test replicates nothing that is encountered in the real world which is why most people who have been around this industry don't use it to defend anything.

  74. #74
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    thanks.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker72
    Your ranting is useless garbage, I know about scientific method and lab testing as I work with it everyday in my field. I see product that fails consistently in the field that passed all kinds of tests in labs..
    What exactly is your point? What's your motivation? What is your point of view?

    All you seem to be doing is ranting about researchers not doing tests in the real world. Scientific quantifiable tests are performed in controlled environments so you can make actual conclusions about causation. This is how knowledge is created.

    What, products fail in the field? No kidding ... really? Is it your point to stomp around pointing out the obvious. Do I need to obviously state that standards aren't always established by engineers ... but rather marketers, accountants and lawyers. Do you consider that either frustrating or annoying?

    .the test replicates nothing that is encountered in the real world which is why most people who have been around this industry don't use it to defend anything.
    What would they defend with it? Perhaps Pedros or Finish Line would use it to justify the price of $2/ounce lube? Or ... maybe it's Shimano's justification for shipping it's chains in Vaseline.

    Exactly what tests do you propose that would show that the role of lubrication changes when it's on dirt instead of in a laboratory. Or perhaps you have an elaborate battery of scenarios to prove a conceded and professed (repeatedly) point, that a dirty chain is less efficient than a clean one.

    Seriously ... what's your point?
    Last edited by willtsmith_nwi; 04-08-2010 at 07:49 PM.

  76. #76
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    so, whats teh difference between all the different types of lube?
    Wax, dry, wet. How do I know which to use and the difference?

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrianmoisey
    so, whats teh difference between all the different types of lube?
    Wax, dry, wet. How do I know which to use and the difference?
    trial and error

    dry is for dry conditions, doesnt work so well in the wet, most need to be reapplied often
    wax is wax, some like it, I dont
    wet is for wet and can also be used in dry conditions

    the key to using wet lubes is to start with a clean chain, put 1 drop on each roller, spin the chain , wait 10-20 mins. wipe off as much as you can. You dont need lube on the exterior of the chain so the more you wipe off the cleaner your chain will stay.

    I used to use dry lubes because they were cleaner, but after trying a free sample of
    chain l #5 wet lube I found that it lasted 5 or 6 times longer and was only slightly messier
    Im also finding that my chain is lasting longer

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan0
    trial and error

    dry is for dry conditions, doesnt work so well in the wet, most need to be reapplied often
    wax is wax, some like it, I dont
    wet is for wet and can also be used in dry conditions

    the key to using wet lubes is to start with a clean chain, put 1 drop on each roller, spin the chain , wait 10-20 mins. wipe off as much as you can. You dont need lube on the exterior of the chain so the more you wipe off the cleaner your chain will stay.

    I used to use dry lubes because they were cleaner, but after trying a free sample of
    chain l #5 wet lube I found that it lasted 5 or 6 times longer and was only slightly messier
    Im also finding that my chain is lasting longer
    Jesus you need a life


    again, lube said chain with whatever your preferance, I use motor oil, do this after you have gotten done riding, wipe off the excess, go in and ravage the woman instead of wasting your time doing what spanky is doing above.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr
    Jesus you need a life


    again, lube said chain with whatever your preferance, I use motor oil, do this after you have gotten done riding, wipe off the excess, go in and ravage the woman instead of wasting your time doing what spanky is doing above.
    ??
    isnt that what I just said

    spanky? whatever, when someone asks for help Ill give it, just like I helped you out with a link.
    What is your contribution to this forum ? other than calling names and being a general a**hole

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr
    ^^^^ has wayyy to much time on his hands to go through that BS

    I use regular motor oil, whatever is laying around, its a friggin lubricant which is all that matters, the only thing that really should be done with chain lube is to apply it AFTER you are done riding while the chain is somewhat warm, helps the lube adhere to the chain, It should also be applied after riding in the wet.

    yeah you must really be hauling ass (literally) to heat up your chain from riding
    I suppose you put oil in your car after you run it too

    the oil is needed inside the rollers and pins not on the exterior, other than slight rust protection the only thing oil on the outside of the chain will do is attract dirt.

    It takes maybe 2 minutes to properly apply the oil and wipe off the excess, of course with someone of your limited cognitive abilities 2 minutes would seem like forever

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan0
    ??
    isnt that what I just said

    spanky? whatever, when someone asks for help Ill give it, just like I helped you out with a link.
    What is your contribution to this forum ? other than calling names and being a general a**hole
    here is a $dollar$ go buy yourself a sense of humor

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr
    here is a $dollar$ go buy yourself a sense of humor
    keep it , use it to buy yourself a personality

  83. #83
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    ***Shakes Head***
    My Bike: '15 Trek FX 7.2
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  84. #84
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    I guess chain lube is a controversial and spicy topic, isn't it? 2 things to remember about chains ...

    1) If it's dirty, clean it
    2) If it needs oil, put some on it - Use Crisco if that's all you've got.

    And possibly #3 -- it if breaks, replace it.

    Nuff said.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan0
    keep it , use it to buy yourself a personality
    good one.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubster
    What ratios are you working with? Also, have you ever cut the chain lube with anything else? I read somewhere recently someone used chainsaw lube cut with break cleaner. I have about a gallon of the stuff that I would like to find a use for and I figure it should last me pretty much the rest of my life especially if I cut it making even more volume of lube.
    +1

    I'd like to know what ratio you use as well, mtnbiker72

    Edit: I'd also like to know what you use for applying it to the chain. I was thinking an eye-dropper may work, but I'm not sure if the lube would be too thick for it.
    Last edited by swoody; 05-03-2010 at 11:13 AM.

  87. #87
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    the chemist speaks

    Interested in what a chemist thinks about chain lube and cleaner?

    Lubes are made mostly from long-chain hydrocarbons and some other alkyl compounds. The shorter the chain, the shorter the time it will last as a lube. WD40 for example has very short chain hydrocarbons so it is great for squeaky hinges and the door knob. Add some heat and some dirt and forget it. Motor oil? Not the best since it whips off rather soon.

    I used to race motorcycles and had to take chains seriously. I discovered the more solid (or less liquid) a lube is after all the carrier evaporates, is the best. This is why you have to run the chain a bit after you apply lube, so the carrier evaporates. It also helps the lube setup more evenly on the inner surfaces of the pin under the rollers. The teflon type lubes will not only give you lubrication, but lower friction. They do not break down under heat as oils do.

    Wiping the excess off afterwards removes the excess so it will not attract dirt, a chains enemy obviously.

    If you have a power-link, take it off after you clean and lube your chain to see how you are doing. I did and decided to clean the chain with 2 or 3 repetitions with the chain clean tool (Park or Pedros) before lubing. Soaking a chain in cleaner does not jar the particles loose. Use the power-link test to compare for yourself.

    Each person's riding habits and habitat have a lot to do with what lube is best. As noted already, cleaning the chain often and lubing is much more important than what lube you use.

    I haven't lost or broken a chain yet and don't have to replace derailleurs or cassettes on my FS. Am I a lightweight rider? My SS will tell you no.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by crankspd
    Interested in what a chemist thinks about chain lube and cleaner?

    Lubes are made mostly from long-chain hydrocarbons and some other alkyl compounds. The shorter the chain, the shorter the time it will last as a lube. WD40 for example has very short chain hydrocarbons so it is great for squeaky hinges and the door knob. Add some heat and some dirt and forget it. Motor oil? Not the best since it whips off rather soon.

    I used to race motorcycles and had to take chains seriously. I discovered the more solid (or less liquid) a lube is after all the carrier evaporates, is the best. This is why you have to run the chain a bit after you apply lube, so the carrier evaporates. It also helps the lube setup more evenly on the inner surfaces of the pin under the rollers. The Teflon type lubes will not only give you lubrication, but lower friction. They do not break down under heat as oils do.

    Wiping the excess off afterwords removes the excess so it will not attract dirt, a chains enemy obviously.

    If you have a power-link, take it off after you clean and lube your chain to see how you are doing. I did and decided to clean the chain with 2 or 3 repetitions with the chain clean tool (Park or Pedros) before lubing. Soaking a chain in cleaner does not jar the particles loose. Use the power-link test to compare for yourself.

    Each person's riding habits and habitat have a lot to do with what lube is best. As noted already, cleaning the chain often and lubing is much more important than what lube you use.

    I haven't lost or broken a chain yet and don't have to replace derailleurs or cassettes on my FS. Am I a lightweight rider? My SS will tell you no.
    I agree with you mostly , however the problem with Teflon lubes is they get pushed aside with metal on metal contact, leaving no lube where the friction is highest. A good chain lube will be slightly stringy, this stringiness is what pulls the lube back into high friction areas and keeps everything coated

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSLKauai
    To say that WD40 has "no lubricating properties" is idiotic. Spray the stuff on your hands and you'll know immediately that it's oily ... take a super squeaky chain and spray some WD40 on it and you'll see and hear immediate improvement. Spray WD40 on a squeaky hinge or lock and the change is immediate.

    WD40 will lubricate a chain ... as good as the most expensive high tech stuff? Who knows. But it's certainly better than letting a chain get rusty and squeaky.
    I'm a noob and I can even tell you how much nonsense that is. Let me guess, its a conspiracy to sell you a rebranded lube at a much higher price? Each of these products have different properties. You should read the Cleaning and Maintenance forum.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197
    I've always used Triflow.

    Just picked up my first can. I was told it was good for pretty much lubing the entire bike. It this correct.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhambrick
    Just picked up my first can. I was told it was good for pretty much lubing the entire bike. It this correct.
    such as?
    any bearings or bushings , no
    chain yes
    what else is there?

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhambrick
    I'm a noob and I can even tell you how much nonsense that is. Let me guess, its a conspiracy to sell you a rebranded lube at a much higher price? Each of these products have different properties. You should read the Cleaning and Maintenance forum.
    Personally, I don't use WD40 ... I use Boeing T9 ... All I'm saying is that it's idiotic to say that WD40 has no lubricating properties. That's all. Is it the best chain lube? Probably not ... but it's far better than nothing. It's important to remember, at times, that we're just talking about a bike chain here. I would be willing to bet that someone who CLEANS and lubes their chain frequently with WD40 is better off than the guy that uses a super hi-tech lube once in awhile.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by dan0
    such as?
    any bearings or bushings , no
    chain yes
    what else is there?
    Do I need to buy oil for the fork (it's air) or can i use this? Do I even need lube for an air fork? Like I said, I was told it would handle all of my lube needs (except my personal ones). I consider put oil on a fork as lubrication.

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