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  1. #1
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    Military Jersey Question

    Maybe some veterans out there can help me on this one. Wanted to add a sweet looking Air Force jersey to the collection, but being a non-vet I'm not sure if this is out of bounds. I would never think of trying to claim the honor of calling myself a vet, just really like the jersey. Is this a no no or a non-issue?

  2. #2
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    Re: Military Jersey Question

    If you wear it, everyone will ask if you served. If you feel ok answering that question to the negative...go ahead.
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    I tend to agree with Silentfoe. As long as you are not trying to pass yourself off as a vet, then you are just showing some support for the service and rocking a jersey you like.
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    Agreed. Lots of people will ask if you served. I have lots of military related things in my house, simply because I support our mlitary. I do have a cousin that is a Marine though, so I can say I support him and our country's military.

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    I am in the Air Force, you wear it so i dont have to!!

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    ... or you could just make something up like...

    "Back in the day... when I was operating as LRRPS with Roger's Rangers, crashing beaches from an LST, I was borrowed by the Air Force for Recon duties out of China Beach in Kuwait. We assaulted Hill 812 rescuing some American Med Students during Operation Just BeCause. I took some plaq, got medevac'd out aboard the last Huey and that pretty much ended my military career of 32 years! And THAT'S all I'm allowed to tell you ... But I wear the jersey because I likes de colors man!"


    Also... You may get a serious ass-whooping next time you put the words, "Sweet!" and "Air Force" together in the same sentence!
    Now... if you want something really hardcore and KICK-ASS!
    Get an ARMY jersey... something with AIRBORNE on it would be the ultimate... just saying...

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    Quote Originally Posted by wsmac View Post
    Also... You may get a serious ass-whooping next time you put the words, "Sweet!" and "Air Force" together in the same sentence!
    Now... if you want something really hardcore and KICK-ASS!
    Get an ARMY jersey... something with AIRBORNE on it would be the ultimate... just saying...
    and thats how it starts........

    P.S. I actually came back here to say, you wear Fox? 661? you dont work for them do you? Its just clothes. Now, if you were to wear a uniform with rank and badging, it would be a different story......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thud44 View Post
    Maybe some veterans out there can help me on this one. Wanted to add a sweet looking Air Force jersey to the collection, but being a non-vet I'm not sure if this is out of bounds. I would never think of trying to claim the honor of calling myself a vet, just really like the jersey. Is this a no no or a non-issue?
    Wearing a Military Color cycling shirt w/o having contributed to Service, it's like wearing a concert-tee with tour dates on the back, but never having gone. I don't knock the intent, just the execution.

    Find a not-for-profit or something.
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  9. #9
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    Re: Military Jersey Question

    I get the same questions about my service when I wear a Star Trek jersey. Awkward.

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    All good points, thanks for the input. Just the fact that I felt I should ask tells me I'd probably still be thinking about it every time I put it on, it's no fun having to explain yourself to those that might question you. I'm no poser. Besides, pops and gramps were Army guys.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thud44 View Post
    Maybe some veterans out there can help me on this one. Wanted to add a sweet looking Air Force jersey to the collection, but being a non-vet I'm not sure if this is out of bounds. I would never think of trying to claim the honor of calling myself a vet, just really like the jersey. Is this a no no or a non-issue?
    I mean, seriously...it's the Air Force. Not like you're trying to pass yourself off as a Green Beret or a Navy Seal. I think Air Force veterans will be able to control their outrage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    I mean, seriously...it's the Air Force. Not like you're trying to pass yourself off as a Green Beret or a Navy Seal. I think Air Force veterans will be able to control their outrage.
    cuz all we do is fly air planes and go golfing

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thud44 View Post
    I'm no poser. Besides, pops and gramps were Army guys.
    again, you dont work for Fox, or any other MTB company do you? Its just a shirt, if you like the shirt then wear the shirt, if someone asks if you are in or if you served, just say "no, just showing my support", after 9/11 people all over the place wore NYFD and NYPD hats/shirts and no one thought they were posers for not being a member of those orgs. bottom line, if you like the shirt, wear the shirt

  14. #14
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    ...MTB company do you? Its just a shirt, if you like the shirt then wear the shirt, if someone asks if you are in or if you served, just say "no, just showing my support", after 9/11 people all over the place wore NYFD and NYPD hats/shirts and no one thought they were posers for not being a member of those orgs. bottom line, if you like the shirt, wear the shirt
    Yep... it's only if you are trying to lie and pass yourself off as something you're not, that gets me.

    That's why I wound up getting a bike finally... got tired of everyone asking if I was in 'so-and-so downhiller movie' whenever I would walk around town in my FOX jersey/pants, 5.10 Impacts, 661 pads and helmet... it just got tiresome to tell the truth!
    Now I actually have a bike to push around town when I wear my uniform!


    9/11 is where that stuff sorta went viral in public with all the NYFD and NYPD stuff people were hanging, sticking, and wearing... like maximous said.

    As a veteran... I don't think twice about people wearing military camo and such... unless they're trying to put up some sort of front.
    What pisses me off is the guys who lie about their service time or just lie about being in the service at all!
    It's been shown that a number of folks standing on corners with cardboard signs claiming "Veteran" status are fakes or spent most of their time in the brig until they were dishonorably discharged.
    I've met a few myself... rode Harleys with one who claimed SF Medic experience... scrote... scumbag... that's what I think of him and the rest of his kind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    I mean, seriously...it's the Air Force. Not like you're trying to pass yourself off as a Green Beret or a Navy Seal. I think Air Force veterans will be able to control their outrage.
    I was a Marine. It isn't a big deal to me if someone wears a jersey. As long as you are not trying to lie about having served, it's a non-issue IMO, regardless of the branch of service.

    FWIW, some of the Air Force guys are badass. REALL badass.

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    I wouldn't. My buddy who was (ok, is, as they always are) a Marine. He wears a Marine's jersey when we ride and any time another Marine see's him it's "You served? Ah yeah man, me too" and then off they go. It doesn't bother me, but if I were wearing the jersey I'd feel like a giant tool going "Uh, well, uh, no..I just thought it was cool." Maybe it's just me though.
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  17. #17
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    I'm an Army vet. I could not care less about what you do with an AF jersey.

    An Army jersey would be a different story, but you didn't ask.

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    I am a Marine Vet. I think it is a nice gesture, if you are going to wear it out of respect for military personnel. But, I would prefer you did not wear one if you have not served. I have lost friends and family members while they were serving. It is a brotherhood, you were not a member. Have seen too many times, people say they served, were a Marine Corps sniper, a Green Beret, or a Navy seal, and later find out they did not even finish boot camp. Never met a single one of them say they were a cook. lol Someone had to make all that food we ate. Sorry if some of you don't agree, but Semper Fi. Those that have given their lives for our country, get all the respect I am able to give.

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    For the record, I am a former Marine Corps infantryman, served for eight years, had and honorable but uneventful career, and while I remember my military service fondly and am glad I did it I have moved past it, way past it, and don't mind in the least people wearing Marine or other logos without having served. There was a time when it might have bothered me but now...like I said, I'm past it. Free country and all that although it is illegal to wear medals and decorations you didn't earn (look it up).

    Like Bdabike observed, most of the stories told by veterans are mostly bogus anyway so what does it matter? In my line of work most of the veterans I meet are disability commandos anyway so I'm not exactly thrilled with the modern military.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by maximous View Post
    cuz all we do is fly air planes and go golfing
    Well..the colf course is the central feature of most Air Force bases. Just saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    Like Bdabike observed, most of the stories told by veterans are mostly bogus anyway so what does it matter? In my line of work most of the veterans I meet are disability commandos anyway so I'm not exactly thrilled with the modern military.
    What do you mean by that? I think stories told by "veterans", perhaps. not to get off topic, but that's a bit offensive....

  22. #22
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    I was a cook...hurry to go in. Let the army let me earn 2 degrees and finished 20 years as an officer. Some of the smartest people in the military I know are logistical experts and, yes, started as cooks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bdabike View Post
    I am a Marine Vet. I think it is a nice gesture, if you are going to wear it out of respect for military personnel. But, I would prefer you did not wear one if you have not served. I have lost friends and family members while they were serving. It is a brotherhood, you were not a member. Have seen too many times, people say they served, were a Marine Corps sniper, a Green Beret, or a Navy seal, and later find out they did not even finish boot camp. Never met a single one of them say they were a cook. lol Someone had to make all that food we ate. Sorry if some of you don't agree, but Semper Fi. Those that have given their lives for our country, get all the respect I am able to give.

  23. #23
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    I guess it never occurred to me to think about this question much. Here in the CENTEX nearly 100% I'd imagine is retired service, active, a spouse or relative, a vet or in some other close way related. And it doesn't bother me to see relatives/family members of military wear their spouse's/Soldier friend's BDU/DCU tops, PT gear etc so no I guess to wear a military cycling jersey wouldn't bother me.

  24. #24
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    Hmm this is a hard one. As long as you are not trying to pass yourself off as something you are not then all is good. For those that know people that are stating they are "Green Berets, SEALS, or other special operations and are fakes please report to Stolen Valor There is a lot and this website tries to comfront these frauds and inform the public.

  25. #25
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    As long as no misrepresentation is involved, support and pride is always good to go.
    SMASH

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    I tend to agree with Silentfoe. As long as you are not trying to pass yourself off as a vet, then you are just showing some support for the service and rocking a jersey you like.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    Free country and all that although it is illegal to wear medals and decorations you didn't earn (look it up).
    Looked it up, not illegal

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by maximous View Post
    Looked it up, not illegal
    Until recently it was illegal and people have been prosecuted and sentenced for it in the past.

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    yep, but sadly, Supreme Court ruled that "Stolen Valor" falls under the 1st Amendment (Free Speech), the only way it is illegal now is if they are using that "Stolen Valor" to seek Position Power or monitary gain

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by maximous View Post
    yep, but sadly, Supreme Court ruled that "Stolen Valor" falls under the 1st Amendment (Free Speech), the only way it is illegal now is if they are using that "Stolen Valor" to seek Position Power or monitary gain
    Either or, both are very lame. While on topic, would the OP wear Collegiate Colors if not a former student? Juilliard Music School grad'?? I mean, sure, wearing a historic name should denote respect but, it is not certainly necessary. Donate to a non-profit yearly, something like that instead. Goes much further and has better vibe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick2cents View Post
    What do you mean by that? I think stories told by "veterans", perhaps. not to get off topic, but that's a bit offensive....

    But true, none-the-less. Did you know that half of the post 911 Veterans have applied for disability connected to their military service and are encouraged by the VA to do so? Surely you must realize that the military, despite what you think you know, is mostly "tail," not "tooth" and excluding the veterans with severe combat wounds, the majority of disability claims are for 1) Bogus PTSD claimed by veterans who saw little or no combat, 2) Ridiculous non-combat back pain and other minor injuries, and 3) Medical conditions contracted during military service (such as hypertension) that the military has nothing to do with.

    It's a scandal and a disgrace. And for the record, everybody says they were a sniper or a some kind of special operator....you'd think the Army and Marines were made of nothing but these kind of guys. I happen to know that, for example, that Marine Sniper School is incredibly difficult, much sought-after training and they only take a relatively few guys for it every year. There just aren't that many snipers out there and the ones who are are hard-charging go-getters who do not end up broken-down, sloppy, whiny veterans addicted to Lortab and living off of their disability.

    So you see, from my perspective veterans have just become another whiny special interest group with their noses in the trough. Everybody is afraid to say this, of course, because of the high sacred-cow factor.
    Last edited by Ailuropoda; 03-06-2013 at 06:47 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick2cents View Post
    What do you mean by that? I think stories told by "veterans", perhaps. not to get off topic, but that's a bit offensive....

    I see a steady parade of Non-combatant National Guardsmen, for example, scheming to get on disability. It's something of a local joke. I had a National Guard Mechanic who was assigned to the US base in Kandahar trying to get a diagnosis of anxiety out of me for PTSD. I'm sure he did honorable service over there but was hardly exposed to a lot of the messy, violent side of war. Heck, the hospital where I work is in a pretty bad neighborhood and judging by the steady parade of gunshot wounds I treat probably more dangerous than serving in a non-combat billet over there.

    PTSD. What a joke. Probably one in a hundred are legitimate.

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    I posted something to keep this whole arguement/off topic rant going, but thought wiser and have changed my response. While myself and others on here may not agree with some of the views being posted, we don't know what it is that the other person is seeing, so, how about we just merge back towards the original idea of the post.

    OP, I am currenty in the Air Force, if you would like to wear a jersey that says USAF on it, it does not bother me. I personaly wouldn't because I wear the real USAF uniform daily, so it would seem like i was getting ready for work. However, I do wear Football Jerseys when my favorite teams play and I am in no way affiliated with those teams. But, with the amount of "drama" your question has started on here, I would say its probably easier to just get a nice Fox Jersey and see how many people ask you if you ride for Fox
    Last edited by maximous; 03-06-2013 at 07:49 AM.

  34. #34
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    I am retired Air Force and I own two Air Force jerseys that I wear every time I ride. Everyone knows me as SgtJim because of my jerseys. As many others have said it does not offend me, but you will be asked and it may offend someone else. I enjoyed reading this forum, it was the highlight of my day. So many of my brothers and sisters from all branches of service out enjoying life mountain biking. Roll on and pedal hard!!!
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  35. #35
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    Take note that not a single service member on this forum has taken offense to you wearing the jersey. (I think)
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    I see a steady parade of Non-combatant National Guardsmen, for example, scheming to get on disability. It's something of a local joke. I had a National Guard Mechanic who was assigned to the US base in Kandahar trying to get a diagnosis of anxiety out of me for PTSD. I'm sure he did honorable service over there but was hardly exposed to a lot of the messy, violent side of war. Heck, the hospital where I work is in a pretty bad neighborhood and judging by the steady parade of gunshot wounds I treat probably more dangerous than serving in a non-combat billet over there.

    PTSD. What a joke. Probably one in a hundred are legitimate.
    I can assure you what you've seen might be normal there, but not everywhere. For the record, I'm a Marine Corps Captain (activated reservist now, got off active duty when I had my son) and I have been a few places. I've had some pretty legitmate injuries that didn't get me a dime out of the VA (apparently it doesn't slow me down :-) ). It isn't quite as bad as you assume. I don't have much interaction with the National Guard, but I know quite a few vets that didn't get much of anything for real, legitimate claims.

    Like I said, it might be that way some places, but it isn't everywhere.

  37. #37
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    So Ailuropoda, quick question...Did you/have you served in a combat zone?
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    So Ailuropoda, quick question...Did you/have you served in a combat zone?
    who?

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    Quote Originally Posted by maximous View Post
    who?
    haha, nevermind, i forgot how to read there for a second.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    So Ailuropoda, quick question...Did you/have you served in a combat zone?

    Yes. But what if I hadn't? That's the problem. Veterans are a sacred cow. Can't say anything bad about them even if it's the truth.

    I just want to note that the WWII veterans were able to hold jobs after their service. There were 5000 casualties on the first day of the Tarawa invasion alone, and yet veterans from that era were able to hold down jobs and raise families.

    Someone has yet to demonstrate how having PTSD keeps you from having a job and why, at 24, you need to be on the welfare for the next sixty years because you once had a horrible experience. It is impossible to run a military where every recruit is going to be a sixty-year liability to the nation.
    Last edited by Ailuropoda; 03-06-2013 at 04:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick2cents View Post
    I can assure you what you've seen might be normal there, but not everywhere. For the record, I'm a Marine Corps Captain (activated reservist now, got off active duty when I had my son) and I have been a few places. I've had some pretty legitmate injuries that didn't get me a dime out of the VA (apparently it doesn't slow me down :-) ). It isn't quite as bad as you assume. I don't have much interaction with the National Guard, but I know quite a few vets that didn't get much of anything for real, legitimate claims.

    Like I said, it might be that way some places, but it isn't everywhere.
    Of course. But I have worked at VA hospitals. Did quite a few rotations there as a resident. Most of the stories the veterans tell you there are entirely bogus and many claim and receive benefits because the VA does not and cannot verify the particulars of service for which a veteran claims disability. They have neither the manpower nor, as huge self-serving bureaucracy, the inclination to do so.

    The trouble is that somewhere along the line the public started to accept the strung-out, thousand-yard-stare Viet Nam veteran caricature as reality. So few people actually serve nowadays that there is a very limited knowledge of the military in the mind of the public.

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    But what about us that were there and done that truly struggle day in and day out with trying to live a normal life. Ptst is a real issue for some of us as well as other injuries. So are my doctors lying to me? Are the restless nights and nightmares all a figment of my imagination? How about the wound on my chest where the round penetrated my vest? I also had a parachuting accident before 911 that fractured 3 of my vertebrae but i refused to be med discharged and in 2001 deployed with my team. Now i struggle with back pain daily. It has taken me 7 years to even think about applying for va benefits because i could work and did not want to be like my father who is like you described.

    It is getting to the point where i struggle to find a job where i am not affected by the pain and am having to choose between my family being taken care of by the va help or struggling to put food on the table. I am not addicted to pain killers. Hell i don't take the ones i have like i am prescribed. I only take them when the pain s so severe i want to bang my head on the floor. If you think this is all bs then you can call my wife, doctors, or my old unit. I find what you posted offensive as would most of my brothers that were there and have many the same issues. Special operations has a very high rate of ptst and other psychological issues after we get out. Our training help us deal with it when we are down range, but what about when we are no longer serving?

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    Ailuropoda, I understand what you are saying, and to a point, I agree. But I am telling you that the VA has really cracked down on fake claims. Sometimes going a little bit in the other direction.

    I guess I don't think the problem is as bad as you say, but that could be because I don't see it as often around here.

    Apologies for further dragging us off topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chef7734 View Post
    But what about us that were there and done that truly struggle day in and day out with trying to live a normal life. Ptst is a real issue for some of us as well as other injuries. So are my doctors lying to me? Are the restless nights and nightmares all a figment of my imagination? How about the wound on my chest where the round penetrated my vest? I also had a parachuting accident before 911 that fractured 3 of my vertebrae but i refused to be med discharged and in 2001 deployed with my team. Now i struggle with back pain daily. It has taken me 7 years to even think about applying for va benefits because i could work and did not want to be like my father who is like you described.

    It is getting to the point where i struggle to find a job where i am not affected by the pain and am having to choose between my family being taken care of by the va help or struggling to put food on the table. I am not addicted to pain killers. Hell i don't take the ones i have like i am prescribed. I only take them when the pain s so severe i want to bang my head on the floor. If you think this is all bs then you can call my wife, doctors, or my old unit. I find what you posted offensive as would most of my brothers that were there and have many the same issues. Special operations has a very high rate of ptst and other psychological issues after we get out. Our training help us deal with it when we are down range, but what about when we are no longer serving?

    On the other hand I know of a veteran drawing disability for hurting her back getting out of a HUMVEE. Like any other huge government money mill, the VA is stuffed to the gills with freeloaders.

  45. #45
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    My service was relatively quiet too. Even in Kirkuk, Iraq I witnessed little "hostility".

    Yet EVERY night I dream I am in the army. I imagine service never leaves a vet.

    Therefore I imagine the stress and maladies that vets that have seen and experienced much worse are very real.

    And yes I too know of retirees that upon their final physical made sure to document every hang nail. I didn't claim anything. I scratch my head at some of what people tell me they claim.

  46. #46
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    Ailuropoda "On the other hand I know of a veteran drawing disability for hurting her back getting out of a HUMVEE. Like any other huge government money mill, the VA is stuffed to the gills with freeloaders. "

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>

    I too have seen some of the BS you are talking about. I had a CPT in my unit that filed for disability claiming that the body armor we wore caused him a back injury getting into a HUMVEE. One of the guys got a full disability for PTSD when we got home and promptly moved to Puerto Rico. The flip side is that one of the young guys in my Platoon came home with 2 purple hearts and quietly went to college and is now an elementary school teacher. I doubt that most of people he works with even know he was in the Army.

    But, as you pointed out about the VA, the military is a huge organization and not everyone fits into the same mold. Keep in mind, you are dealing with people who are applying for the benefits and such, so you no doubt see a high percentage of the ones trying to milk it. Not all of us are in that bunch, and therefore you don't deal with us.

    I was an Infantry platoon sergeant in a National Guard unit. My squad leaders and I have remained close friends and I am the only one of us that has remained married after our deployments. I did however go through 3 jobs the first 4 years I was home. None of us is receiving any form of disability, and none of us want it. I honestly don't think any of us need it either.

    While I agree that what you are saying is true, there are a lot of us who just put our head down and went on with our lives and are working through any issues we have. Much like I agree with you that a huge percentage of the "war" stories you hear people telling are BS, those that actually have war stories don't tell them.

    EDIT: Wanted to add that like back injures in the civilian work world, PTSD may be the most abused from of combat injury to get a disability. That doesn't mean that it isn't a serious problem for some people, and some veterans really do struggle with it. It is just a shame that the trough feeders always take advantage of things designed to help people who legitimately need it. Makes my skin crawl.

    Try not to get too jaded.

    Back to the original topic. OP, if you like the jersey wear it man. Personally, I don't wear anything military anymore and that is just my choice. But again, if you are not trying to pass yourself off as something you are not then rock on and enjoy riding.
    Last edited by 11 Bravo; 03-07-2013 at 05:54 AM. Reason: Added a few comments.
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  47. #47
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    Military Jersey Question

    If somebody really had a problem with me wearing a jersey for the AF or whatever, I would say its just another way to support our troops, my taxes paid for the planes, guns, tanks etc. I should be able to wear a shirt that says ARMY on it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11 Bravo View Post
    Ailuropoda "On the other hand I know of a veteran drawing disability for hurting her back getting out of a HUMVEE. Like any other huge government money mill, the VA is stuffed to the gills with freeloaders. "

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>

    I too have seen some of the BS you are talking about. I had a CPT in my unit that filed for disability claiming that the body armor we wore caused him a back injury getting into a HUMVEE. One of the guys got a full disability for PTSD when we got home and promptly moved to Puerto Rico. The flip side is that one of the young guys in my Platoon came home with 2 purple hearts and quietly went to college and is now an elementary school teacher. I doubt that most of people he works with even know he was in the Army.

    But, as you pointed out about the VA, the military is a huge organization and not everyone fits into the same mold. Keep in mind, you are dealing with people who are applying for the benefits and such, so you no doubt see a high percentage of the ones trying to milk it. Not all of us are in that bunch, and therefore you don't deal with us.

    I was an Infantry platoon sergeant in a National Guard unit. My squad leaders and I have remained close friends and I am the only one of us that has remained married after our deployments. I did however go through 3 jobs the first 4 years I was home. None of us is receiving any form of disability, and none of us want it. I honestly don't think any of us need it either.

    While I agree that what you are saying is true, there are a lot of us who just put our head down and went on with our lives and are working through any issues we have. Much like I agree with you that a huge percentage of the "war" stories you hear people telling are BS, those that actually have war stories don't tell them.

    EDIT: Wanted to add that like back injures in the civilian work world, PTSD may be the most abused from of combat injury to get a disability. That doesn't mean that it isn't a serious problem for some people, and some veterans really do struggle with it. It is just a shame that the trough feeders always take advantage of things designed to help people who legitimately need it. Makes my skin crawl.

    Try not to get too jaded.

    Back to the original topic. OP, if you like the jersey wear it man. Personally, I don't wear anything military anymore and that is just my choice. But again, if you are not trying to pass yourself off as something you are not then rock on and enjoy riding.
    Fair enough. My problem is not with veterans with legitimate service connected disabilities but instead with the general culture of disability and dependence that has been allowed to blossom and from which the military is not immune.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    Fair enough. My problem is not with veterans with legitimate service connected disabilities but instead with the general culture of disability and dependence that has been allowed to blossom and from which the military is not immune.
    not to start this back up, but what you were saying wasn't alluding to having a problem with "those individuals", it seemed more aimed at all veterans, and i most certainly agree that as a culture we are finding ourselves, more and more, carrying dead-beat, lazy @$$ whiners, from which I concur, veterans are not exempt, but no one else is exempt either, garbage is garbage...

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    USMC veteran. I have been to the VA hospital in my area. Dropping of veterans of Vietnam Era for appointments. They way you talk of veterans, putting them all in the same category as scammers, reminds me of a day I seen first hand, an employee of this VA, talking down to, being rough with, and eventually rescheduling his appt. to his next day of. (all verified, my mother worked there) After seeing this, I had a few words with said c@3k bite. After being told to leave, it was discussed among others at this hospital, and he was later removed from service. Not saying you are this man, but you are getting rather close to it by your statements.
    If you are a medical aid in some way, I would think you would be better served working at a civilian hospital. You just don't seem to have the self control to work in a place you don't respect. You have also distanced your self from even being a prior serviceman because of this. (your previous posts)
    I would like to get a UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS jersey. Does anyone have a link?
    Sorry for the rant, but Ailuropoda makes my butt hurt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wsmac View Post
    Get an ARMY jersey... something with AIRBORNE on it would be the ultimate... just saying...
    I was Army, but not Airborne. I wouldn't think of wearing anything with "Airborne" on it. I have too much respect for those guys/girls to possibly be mistaken that I was.
    My .02 cents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    But true, none-the-less. Did you know that half of the post 911 Veterans have applied for disability connected to their military service and are encouraged by the VA to do so? Surely you must realize that the military, despite what you think you know, is mostly "tail," not "tooth" and excluding the veterans with severe combat wounds, the majority of disability claims are for 1) Bogus PTSD claimed by veterans who saw little or no combat, 2) Ridiculous non-combat back pain and other minor injuries, and 3) Medical conditions contracted during military service (such as hypertension) that the military has nothing to do with.

    It's a scandal and a disgrace. And for the record, everybody says they were a sniper or a some kind of special operator....you'd think the Army and Marines were made of nothing but these kind of guys. I happen to know that, for example, that Marine Sniper School is incredibly difficult, much sought-after training and they only take a relatively few guys for it every year. There just aren't that many snipers out there and the ones who are are hard-charging go-getters who do not end up broken-down, sloppy, whiny veterans addicted to Lortab and living off of their disability.

    So you see, from my perspective veterans have just become another whiny special interest group with their noses in the trough. Everybody is afraid to say this, of course, because of the high sacred-cow factor.
    Wow, I think you are an A$$hole!!!
    Have you ever spent any time in a Veteran's hospital??? I guarantee you the folks there are not a "whiny special interest group." Granted there are plenty of Veterans with injuries that are not combat related. But being in the military is a dangerous job no matter what MOS you hold. Each job supports the military as a whole and is important as such. To be injured while doing their job is a risk We as Vets signed on for regardless if it's combat related or not. If you are a Vet, then thanks for your service, if not, shut the F##k up or sign on the line!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by HitmenOnlyInc View Post
    Wow, I think you are an A$$hole!!!
    Have you ever spent any time in a Veteran's hospital??? I guarantee you the folks there are not a "whiny special interest group." Granted there are plenty of Veterans with injuries that are not combat related. But being in the military is a dangerous job no matter what MOS you hold. Each job supports the military as a whole and is important as such. To be injured while doing their job is a risk We as Vets signed on for regardless if it's combat related or not. If you are a Vet, then thanks for your service, if not, shut the F##k up or sign on the line!!
    Really, Dude? Like I said, veterans are a sacred cow and to criticize them or the VA is not allowed, not if you can help it. But nothing is or should be beyond criticism or scrutiny because the services given by the VA are not free and neither are they are trivial expense to the nation. If half of the servicemen since 9/11 have applied for disability and are granted it with no questions asked we will arrive at the ridiculous state of affairs where the number of veterans drawing pay from the government far, far exceeds the actual number actually serving. Retirement is one thing but I ask you again, should a minor back injury incurred during boot camp entitle you to sixty years of government benefits?

    This is what we are looking at today. Because of the huge and unassailable portion of the federal budget devoted to entitlements of all kinds we are now being forced to cut to the bone not only the active duty military but other legitimate government functions.

    Also, are half of the veterans who served since 9/11 really disabled or are many, the majority, with the aid and knowledge of the VA, trying to scam a little free money out of the system? You have to understand that the VA is a gigantic bureaucracy who's chief purpose, like every bureaucracy, is to maintain itself. Consequently it has to justify its budget and the more veterans it has attached to it the more money it can ask from congress. This is like every other bureaucracy and is commonly expressed as the "spend it or lose it" mentality that hits the entire government towards the end of the fiscal year.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bdabike View Post
    USMC veteran. I have been to the VA hospital in my area. Dropping of veterans of Vietnam Era for appointments. They way you talk of veterans, putting them all in the same category as scammers, reminds me of a day I seen first hand, an employee of this VA, talking down to, being rough with, and eventually rescheduling his appt. to his next day of. (all verified, my mother worked there) After seeing this, I had a few words with said c@3k bite. After being told to leave, it was discussed among others at this hospital, and he was later removed from service. Not saying you are this man, but you are getting rather close to it by your statements.
    If you are a medical aid in some way, I would think you would be better served working at a civilian hospital. You just don't seem to have the self control to work in a place you don't respect. You have also distanced your self from even being a prior serviceman because of this. (your previous posts)
    I would like to get a UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS jersey. Does anyone have a link?
    Sorry for the rant, but Ailuropoda makes my butt hurt.
    As a side note, I wouldn't send my dog to a VA hospital unless it was one affiliated with a university teaching hospital like the Durham, NC VA that is right across the the street from Duke University Hospital and where I did many rotations in the course of medical training. The VA hospitals, like most of the government, is full of time-serving, clock-watching hacks who couldn't make it in the private sector and I know full well the difficulty of getting VA doctors or nurses to give a **** after quitting time.

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    I hear what you are saying and I am sure there is abuse in the VA. But don't think it's an easy task to get VA disability. I spent 5 years after the Gulf War in and out of the VA for sinus issues related to Kuwaiti oil fires. I was told repeatedly by the VA to apply for partial disability but it might take years to get anywhere. I didn't! I actually felt like **** walking into the VA as a relatively healthy 20 something when there are/were many who actually need the support the VA gives. I eventually stopped going to the VA because I had good health insurance.

    No, the services at the VA aren't free, but they are services earned by the soldiers who use them. It's the least we as a country can do to provide for the people who serve. It's not enough!! As you well know military personnel do not get paid squat for putting their asses on the line. They should at least be taken care off for the physical and mental sacrifices they make.

    "Sacred Cow" Hell yes!! Criticize the VA all you want. It is a system with flaws, but show me one that isn't.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    As a side note, I wouldn't send my dog to a VA hospital unless it was one affiliated with a university teaching hospital like the Durham, NC VA that is right across the the street from Duke University Hospital and where I did many rotations in the course of medical training. The VA hospitals, like most of the government, is full of time-serving, clock-watching hacks who couldn't make it in the private sector and I know full well the difficulty of getting VA doctors or nurses to give a **** after quitting time.
    I will agree with you to a point, but it's what we have. Like I said, yes the system is flawed. This is just a part of a much larger problem this country has. Healthcare in general. The VA's problem is that doctors make way too much $$$ in the private sector to work for peanuts at the VA and not have all of the resources to do their jobs properly.

    We are way off topic from the OP...

    OP wear whatever jersey makes you happy! I won't take offense to it at all.

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    Many of us, (prior service) have served our country, and are proud. We have went on to life after our service. Getting jobs, starting families and became active in our communities. I understand what you are saying about people of all types using the system. Happens everyday. You pretty much stated that you served to get your college education paid for. So did alot of us. Some men were injured to the point of not fullfilling their goal. To have you come on here and dis-respect the ones that did it the right way, angers all that served. I will guarantee many, that never served, will agree, your statements are dis-respectful to those that suffered for our country. We all suffer for the misuse of funding these programs. You got your degree, but I fear, your education took your patriotism away. Or you never had any honor to your country in the first place. I am not as educated as you, but I will die one day with honor, and the pride of serving my country.........SEMPER FIDELIS

    OP...I sent you a PM, and sorry for ranting.

  58. #58
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    I lived in NYC before and after 9/11. I was one of the thousands who sported the NYPD and FDNY hats, shirts, etc. starting 9/12. They were our *#$@ing heros and wearing a cap or sweatshirt (and dropping off brownies and stew and muffins and... at the stations) was one way we could show our support. Coincidently, I'm 6'1", with a shaved head, not fat... so I did get "You on the job?", "You with PD?", etc. My response was always the same "Nope. Just a huge fan"

    I see it the same way with wearing a military jersey - we're fans of what you guys do. I'm more impressed with a Marine Private than an NFL quarterback. Given the two choices, I'd wear an Air Force, Army, Marine or Navy jersey over a Steelers jersey any day.

    Ooooh! I got it! The armed forces need to sell "fan gear". You know - authentic, "approved" gear, proceeds going to the service...
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  59. #59
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    This thread really got derailed fast.

    1. Wear the jersey proudly and state loudly you support the military
    2. Props to my brothers and sisters, regardless of branch, and thanks for your service
    3. Never be ashamed if you earned a disablity. Get the best care you can.
    4. Keep riding, it helps me get past my own PTSD. Earned over two combat tours to Iraq as a Combat Engineer.
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  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bdabike View Post
    Many of us, (prior service) have served our country, and are proud. We have went on to life after our service. Getting jobs, starting families and became active in our communities. I understand what you are saying about people of all types using the system. Happens everyday. You pretty much stated that you served to get your college education paid for. So did alot of us. Some men were injured to the point of not fullfilling their goal. To have you come on here and dis-respect the ones that did it the right way, angers all that served. I will guarantee many, that never served, will agree, your statements are dis-respectful to those that suffered for our country. We all suffer for the misuse of funding these programs. You got your degree, but I fear, your education took your patriotism away. Or you never had any honor to your country in the first place. I am not as educated as you, but I will die one day with honor, and the pride of serving my country.........SEMPER FIDELIS

    OP...I sent you a PM, and sorry for ranting.

    Where did I say I enlisted to get my college education paid for? For the record the military did not pay for my college education. I enlisted in 1983 before the MGIB came into effect. I went to an inexpensive state university and paid for college from savings, working, and my wife's job. I enlisted because I wanted to be a hard-charging United States Marine and in reality didn't care about either the pay or benefits.

    As for patriotism, what does that mean nowadays anyway? The country is a wagon full of freeloaders being pulled by fewer and fewer people and it's just getting worse every year. Already the freeloaders outnumber the wagon-pullers and in a few years it will be politically impossible to put the brakes on any entitlement spending as the country spirals into insignificance and servitude. I already spend almost half of my workday enriching the freeloaders and now you ask for patriotism? Does that mean keeping my mouth shut and not pointing out the obvious? Buddy, what you really need to ask yourself is how it is possible for the country to lose the support of people like me.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by HitmenOnlyInc View Post
    I will agree with you to a point, but it's what we have. Like I said, yes the system is flawed. This is just a part of a much larger problem this country has. Healthcare in general. The VA's problem is that doctors make way too much $$$ in the private sector to work for peanuts at the VA and not have all of the resources to do their jobs properly.
    The VA has plenty of money. They waste it by the bucketload. But as the primary purpose of the VA is to cement another constituency into dependence for political ends it is more in their interest to spend it on dubious disability claims than take better care of the veterans who actually need it.

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    I no longer want to be part of this thread, trying to understand the pathetic reasoning of some office poge, that must not have earned enough respect to appreciate his time serving his country. I am put of that, Ailuropoda even served, let alone, in my Marine Corp. Out....

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    Again, I appreciate the thoughts on this subject as well as the related ones. The frank nature of the discussion is refreshing. My mother worked part time as an X-ray tech in a va hospital back in the day and the issues being discussed here were the same as those almost 30 years ago. Conditions for many vets at these hospitals were not the greatest then, just as today, and many had some real struggles. Aside from those who have legitimate issues and those who don't, it'd be nice if more awareness existed in the general public and more people gave a damn.

    I'm thinking I'll take a pass on the jersey and just find something else, tons of choices out there. I've got too much reverence for what you guys stand for as I had a great uncle who was KIA over Austria in '44 and I've been on and off again trying to locate his son, who was later adopted and the families lost touch, so I can give him the flag from the funeral that his mother couldn't bare to accept. I've come to realize that wearing the jersey wouldn't pass the "feels right" test for me, simply haven't earned it. No big deal.
    Last edited by Thud44; 03-07-2013 at 08:32 PM.

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    Here's an idea for the OP...

    Go to one of the online jersey maker/printers (such as the one doing the MTBR Jerseys that another member designed and set up)... make your own U.S.Military appreciation jerseys.

    Start with your favorite.. the Air Force jersey. Design it to have the colors and logo, etc. you want on a jersey and then find a way to have it show it's strictly for supporting the services.

    All the other stuff people are ranting on about here... TAKE IT TO ANOTHER THREAD!
    Seriously... I have my own opinions about VA, military, etc... but this isn't the place for it.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bdabike View Post
    I no longer want to be part of this thread, trying to understand the pathetic reasoning of some office poge, that must not have earned enough respect to appreciate his time serving his country. I am put of that, Ailuropoda even served, let alone, in my Marine Corp. Out....
    Hang on there. I was an infantryman (0331) in Kilo Company, 3/8. I was honorably discharged in 1991 after the first Gulf War and was the Weapons Platoon Sergeant. Although I had an undistinguished career, I did the military equivalent of hard time.

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    so you were in 1983-1991, and are comparing how things were in your day, vs how things have been post 9-11-01? the gulf war was seven months, and people came away from that scarred, my last deployment alone was 1yr, not to even add the other four deployments since 2003, i tried to sit back and just see things thru your eyes but its BS, you take what you supposedly see, and the service that you were in for and count that as the standard that all others live by, many people on here have stated that they agree this is flawed, or that some people do abuse the system, you haven't changed at all, still bitter to everyone else, and this isnt even the first thread you have spread this garbage in, i searched your posts, most of them over the last few months are nothing but off topic *****ing, if you are so un-happy then find something else to do, and unless the topic from the OP is "What do you think about the VA and Current vetrans disability claims" then keep your dumb A$$ opinions to yourself

    Hard Time??? you sir, are a moron

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by maximous View Post
    so you were in 1983-1991, and are comparing how things were in your day, vs how things have been post 9-11-01? the gulf war was seven months, and people came away from that scarred, my last deployment alone was 1yr, not to even add the other four deployments since 2003, i tried to sit back and just see things thru your eyes but its BS, you take what you supposedly see, and the service that you were in for and count that as the standard that all others live by, many people on here have stated that they agree this is flawed, or that some people do abuse the system, you haven't changed at all, still bitter to everyone else, and this isnt even the first thread you have spread this garbage in, i searched your posts, most of them over the last few months are nothing but off topic *****ing, if you are so un-happy then find something else to do, and unless the topic from the OP is "What do you think about the VA and Current vetrans disability claims" then keep your dumb A$$ opinions to yourself

    Hard Time??? you sir, are a moron
    The Gulf War was four days or so of action after several months of airstrikes. I was actually in Liberia in Operation Sharp Edge during the build-up. If you came away from a four-day war "scarred" what can I say? Casualties were fairly light as I recall and non-existant in most units. This is the truth. I think Grenada lasted longer but I could be wrong about that one. Does seeing action entitle you to a lifetime of benefits just because you say so with no scrutiny and no questions? Somebody has to pay the bill, after all. If it came directly out of your pocket you'd probably want more accountability .

    Just by knowledge of how the military is structured, the majority of the half of all veteran since 9/11 saw no combat but they have all applied for some kind of disability. Please explain.

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    "Some 5.2 million servicemen and women have served in all branches of the military in the last 10 years"

    while i will not 100% stand behind this number as it was a quick search, but by this you are saying some 2.6 million are on disability?

    If you have a good source for your numbers I would be more inclined to give credit to what you say, but even so, if that many are on disablity and a minority or majority is fake, that still doesn't mean that all veterans are bogus, or that PTSD for that matter is bogus, I have not been diagnosed, I don't think I suffer from PTSD, but everyone has their own eyes in which to see the same event. The problem is that while others on this thread were willing to try seeing things thru your eyes, you have not accepted the fact that your perception is yours, and not based off fact that you have provided.

    If your problem is false claims, start with the non-veterans, the non-contributing members of society that have done nothing to earn anything, then after you have solved that problem, then attack those who have earned benefits

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    The Gulf War was four days or so of action after several months of airstrikes. I was actually in Liberia in Operation Sharp Edge during the build-up. If you came away from a four-day war "scarred" what can I say? Casualties were fairly light as I recall and non-existant in most units. This is the truth. I think Grenada lasted longer but I could be wrong about that one. Does seeing action entitle you to a lifetime of benefits just because you say so with no scrutiny and no questions? Somebody has to pay the bill, after all. If it came directly out of your pocket you'd probably want more accountability .


    Just by knowledge of how the military is structured, the majority of the half of all veteran since 9/11 saw no combat but they have all applied for some kind of disability. Please explain.
    You are missing the point. "Scarred" can mean many different things. Granted more Americans died or were injured in the Gulf War from friendly fire or "accidents" than combat related, that doesn't diminish the effects on the soldiers or their families. Many soldier came home sick. Call it what you want, Gulf War Syndrome, Bullsh!t, whatever... I was told years later in a letter that while I was in Iraq, EOD destroyed chemical weapons in the area I was at. It was more of a heads up than anything. But it could have been the cause of some of my problems...who knows. I know there were many accidents related to crazy a$$ Saudi drivers, helicopter crashes, plane crashes not to mention any number of accidents that happen when you put a half million soldiers together. Being that they happened in service means the service should fix it. And yes, someone has to pay the bill...yes, it does come from my pocket and every other American that pays taxes. It's the cost of having the military we do.

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    "The document, which veterans groups have unsuccessfully filed Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests to obtain, shows that there are now a total of 1,634,569 veterans from post-9/11 wars, and that 745,481 of these veterans have filed disability claims, which is an astonishing 46 percent.

    The document also shows that while the number of veterans who have been diagnosed by V.A. doctors with PTSD is 247,243, the number of them who are actually getting disability benefits is 137,911. In other words, 44 percent of post-9/11 veterans diagnosed with PTSD are still not getting their benefits."

    Unless I am reading something wrong, (possible), 46% of veterans ""FROM 9-11 wars"" have been diagnosed with PTSD, but that only 44% of those are recieving benefits, those numbers are coming from “VA BENEFITS ACTIVITY: VETERANS DEPLOYED TO THE GLOBAL WAR ON TERROR,”.

    A small amount of math from my small brain shows that 1,634,569 have served in OIF/OEF, 5.2m have served since 9-11, thats 31%, 46% of that being diagnosed with PTSD being 751,901, and 44% of that being paid benefits being roughly 330836.7, so round it to 330837, 5.2m in service, 330837 paid for PTSD, thats 0.0636225%, 6% of total force since 9-11 is being paid disability for PTSD.

    Now i know you weren't focused on PTSD only, but your number was 50%, so you are telling me that 2,392,000 people are being paid benfits for something other than PTSD.

    I don't know who buys what you are selling but it's not this guy.....

  71. #71
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    Thread may as well get closed. But to the op, I have seen some of the other jerseys. Support our troops jerseys, KIA jerseys and some cool looking Memorial jerseys on some of these sellers pages. With some of these discussions on your thread, I hope they do not make you feel any different about our military. There is always going to be that 10%, that are full of s!@#.

    As for Ailuropada, you made some smart arse comments about the AIR FORCE, like they are not up to par with you.(The golf course remark) I also believe you are a liar. You served eight years, correct? So, you served 4 yrs active, 4 years inactive reserve. Or you signed up for the accelerated promotion, being 6 yrs active, 2 yrs inactive. So sir, you have made up some stuff to try and make yourself more knowing. You don't know jack about what it means to be in the big stand down mode. In the liberation of Kuwait, the air strikes combined with the burning of oil wells, put off horrible gases, that blew directly in the faces of our fellow service members. Causing many disabling sequences to these people. From curved spine, lung and heart problems, which led to many of these troops dead before they reached the age of 30. In my time of service, I enlisted a number of others into the Marine Corps, and other branches of the armed forces. Lots of them served well past my days of active duty, and a few suffer from these ailments. Some have died. So don't try to put down any servicemen or women, in any way.

    I see where you gave me some REP after my first post. How about giving me all the bad REP you can, so I can get this horrible taste out of my mouth, that we were once brothers in the Corps. You are the first Jarhead, that I have no respect for. Poge.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bdabike View Post
    Thread may as well get closed. But to the op, I have seen some of the other jerseys. Support our troops jerseys, KIA jerseys and some cool looking Memorial jerseys on some of these sellers pages. With some of these discussions on your thread, I hope they do not make you feel any different about our military. There is always going to be that 10%, that are full of s!@#.

    As for Ailuropada, you made some smart arse comments about the AIR FORCE, like they are not up to par with you.(The golf course remark) I also believe you are a liar. You served eight years, correct? So, you served 4 yrs active, 4 years inactive reserve. Or you signed up for the accelerated promotion, being 6 yrs active, 2 yrs inactive. So sir, you have made up some stuff to try and make yourself more knowing. You don't know jack about what it means to be in the big stand down mode. In the liberation of Kuwait, the air strikes combined with the burning of oil wells, put off horrible gases, that blew directly in the faces of our fellow service members. Causing many disabling sequences to these people. From curved spine, lung and heart problems, which led to many of these troops dead before they reached the age of 30. In my time of service, I enlisted a number of others into the Marine Corps, and other branches of the armed forces. Lots of them served well past my days of active duty, and a few suffer from these ailments. Some have died. So don't try to put down any servicemen or women, in any way.

    I see where you gave me some REP after my first post. How about giving me all the bad REP you can, so I can get this horrible taste out of my mouth, that we were once brothers in the Corps. You are the first Jarhead, that I have no respect for. Poge.
    As for the OP, i think he has long since moved past the idea, whatever, the military doesn't make MTB Jerseys, its not a uniform, as long as you aren't saying that you really wear a uniform, then its just a shirt, but it seems to be problematic to many, so whatever,

  73. #73
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    lets start an additional off topic thread, how come I can't rep my own post, but I can Report my own post??

    PS kidding about the new topic

  74. #74
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    I agree, Thank you for your insight and your service. OOH-RAH.

  75. #75
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    I tried Reping you more, but I am all out of ammo.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bdabike View Post
    I tried Reping you more, but I am all out of ammo.
    I hate it when that happens
    I'm not very smart, but I can lift heavy things

  77. #77
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    USAF veteran (Desert Storm/Sheild). I wouldn't care of you wore it. Nothing wrong with supporting the troops!

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bdabike View Post
    Thread may as well get closed. But to the op, I have seen some of the other jerseys. Support our troops jerseys, KIA jerseys and some cool looking Memorial jerseys on some of these sellers pages. With some of these discussions on your thread, I hope they do not make you feel any different about our military. There is always going to be that 10%, that are full of s!@#.

    As for Ailuropada, you made some smart arse comments about the AIR FORCE, like they are not up to par with you.(The golf course remark) I also believe you are a liar. You served eight years, correct? So, you served 4 yrs active, 4 years inactive reserve. Or you signed up for the accelerated promotion, being 6 yrs active, 2 yrs inactive. So sir, you have made up some stuff to try and make yourself more knowing. You don't know jack about what it means to be in the big stand down mode. In the liberation of Kuwait, the air strikes combined with the burning of oil wells, put off horrible gases, that blew directly in the faces of our fellow service members. Causing many disabling sequences to these people. From curved spine, lung and heart problems, which led to many of these troops dead before they reached the age of 30. In my time of service, I enlisted a number of others into the Marine Corps, and other branches of the armed forces. Lots of them served well past my days of active duty, and a few suffer from these ailments. Some have died. So don't try to put down any servicemen or women, in any way.

    I see where you gave me some REP after my first post. How about giving me all the bad REP you can, so I can get this horrible taste out of my mouth, that we were once brothers in the Corps. You are the first Jarhead, that I have no respect for. Poge.

    I did two enlistments on active duty for a total of seven years and eight months-or-so...I re-enlisted before the end of my first enlistment so my second enlistment over-lapped the first by a few months. I had an inactive reserve commitment of about four months because your second enlistment overrode your inactive commitment.

    Additionally I enlisted "Open Contract" (like an idiot) and the only accelerated promotion I got was guaranteed PFC so I graduated with a stripe..big whoop.

    So, while I had an undistinguished and unremarkable career and have very few war stories to tell you, I was none-the-less a real honest-to-gosh United States Marine Corps infantryman. I was no "Office Poge" as you implied.

    By the way, when you call me an "Office Poge" aren't you implying that there are, in fact, veterans who are not worthy of your respect? That is, that you hold REMFs (as the Army calls them) in contempt?

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by maximous View Post
    "Some 5.2 million servicemen and women have served in all branches of the military in the last 10 years"

    while i will not 100% stand behind this number as it was a quick search, but by this you are saying some 2.6 million are on disability?

    If you have a good source for your numbers I would be more inclined to give credit to what you say, but even so, if that many are on disablity and a minority or majority is fake, that still doesn't mean that all veterans are bogus, or that PTSD for that matter is bogus, I have not been diagnosed, I don't think I suffer from PTSD, but everyone has their own eyes in which to see the same event. The problem is that while others on this thread were willing to try seeing things thru your eyes, you have not accepted the fact that your perception is yours, and not based off fact that you have provided.

    If your problem is false claims, start with the non-veterans, the non-contributing members of society that have done nothing to earn anything, then after you have solved that problem, then attack those who have earned benefits
    I said that half of them have applied for disability. Do you really think half of them are disabled because of their service. Remember, this number includes everybody from Special Forces Operators to the Medical Clerk at the base hospital.

    As for PTSD, it is a real diagnosis but has strict criteria, exists on a spectrum, and is often mid-diagnosed. Because it is a subjective diagnosis, the diagnostic accuracy depends on the skill of the doctor, his willingness to spend the time on the patient, and his nose for malingering. In the civilian world, we have Fibromyalgia and Bipolar, both of which are real clinical entities but actually serve as garbage diagnosis into which lazy doctors can throw their difficult and often malingering patients. We also see a lot of civilian PTSD.

    The term disability itself is misleading and part of the problem. Taking our WWII veterans as an example, no one has yet to demonstrate why PTSD and holding down a job are incompatible and why it "disables" you from working. If we lived in a rational world your "disability" benefits would be free psychiatric treatment for your disorder that would allow you to heal and get on with your life. Unfortunately "disability" has now become a way of life. In the civilian world nine-million people are on disability which is one-tenth of the entire work force.

    How many veteran disability claims do you think are "false?" If that number is small it's no problem but what if it's twenty percent? Thirty? Fifty? This is a huge and unnecessary cost and, if your are one of the people pulling the wagon, should make you mad. Like I said, if you had to write a check to a disabled veteran every month for thirty percent of your income you'd probably hire a private detective to verify his claim and demand strict accountability.

  80. #80
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    you write the checks?

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by maximous View Post
    you write the checks?
    38 percent top marginal rate for income tax and I pay 15 percent off the top of the first 120K or so I make for FICA.

    Yes. Yes I do.

  82. #82
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    By the way, when you call me an "Office Poge" aren't you implying that there are, in fact, veterans who are not worthy of your respect? That is, that you hold REMFs (as the Army calls them) in contempt?[/QUOTE]

    The term you state is POGUE.

    The term I referred to you, is POGE. meaning....The principle of good enough, get it?

    Maybe not as educated as I assumed.

  83. #83
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    no wonder you are pissed, 38% of your paycheck goes directly to the VA, then you still have to pay taxes like the rest of us, and you have to pay an additional bit of taxes on anything you make above $120,000, you poor unfortunate sole. that must mean like what 50% of your pay check goes to taxes??

    Numbers don't lie, but they can be changed to read the wrong way.

    Still, you have provided nothing to add validity to what you are saying, I use real numbers and you pull numbers that aren't relevant, you say half of all service members since 9-11 have applied for disability, i show you that only 6% of the 5.2m served since 9-11 are actually on disability for PTSD and nothing changes, you stick to your guns but you've got the wrong ammo

  84. #84
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    Sheesh! My Grandfather spent 4 years on active duty between 1914 and 1918 in the British Royal Artillery, saw the entire war from the trenches on the Western Front. He managed to live his life after that pretty well. He was wounded a couple of times but held a job all his life, raised a family, and was a good person. I know he was scarred by his experiences, who wouldn't be? He fought hard and long for something he believed in, and dealt with the fallout. My Father was a major in the British Army and served on active combat duty in Burma towards the end of WW11, and in India thereafter during the Partition. He had some extremely violent and dangerous encounters, yet managed to live a wholesome life afterwards, bringing up a family fairly successfully and holding down successful jobs. The culture of entitlement nowadays is a great deal different to those times, and I do believe Ailuropoda has some very valid points that deserve something other than a kneejerk reaction and accusations of non-participation. It looks very much to me as if he has made his chops in more ways than most posting here!

    As for the shirt, I personally would not wear anything military, but then I don't much like anything with logos on. I have hundreds of band T shirts and tour jackets that just gather dust in my garage...
    It's all Here. Now.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by maximous View Post
    no wonder you are pissed, 38% of your paycheck goes directly to the VA, then you still have to pay taxes like the rest of us, and you have to pay an additional bit of taxes on anything you make above $120,000, you poor unfortunate sole. that must mean like what 50% of your pay check goes to taxes??

    Numbers don't lie, but they can be changed to read the wrong way.

    Still, you have provided nothing to add validity to what you are saying, I use real numbers and you pull numbers that aren't relevant, you say half of all service members since 9-11 have applied for disability, i show you that only 6% of the 5.2m served since 9-11 are actually on disability for PTSD and nothing changes, you stick to your guns but you've got the wrong ammo

    When you slice it and dice it, I probably surrender about forty percent of my pay to the government. This is not an abstract thing either because I actually do write a big check to the IRS every three months.

    You read it wrong. I pay 38 percent on essentially all of my income on top of paying 15 percent on the first $120,000 for FICA. FICA caps at a certain amount but not income tax. Those of you who are not self-employed pay only 7.5 percent for FICA while your employer pays the other 7.5 percent.

    When you figure in State taxes and the like absolutely 50 percent of my paycheck goes to taxes. Or to look at it another way, although I have a pretty good job, it is still work and half of all of the shifts I work are largely for somebody else and much of these go to the support of abject freeloaders.

    The other day I treated a veteran who was drawing service-connected disability for back pain. He was wake boarding, wiped out, and had some trivial ear pain for which, none-the-less he demanded powerful narcotics.

    Wake boarding is a more aggressive form of water skiing. We're paying this guy a couple of thousand a month for debilitating back pain.

  86. #86
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    My wife is Active Duty, I'm Reserve. Our son sports the team colors. So do all our nieces, nephews, siblings, etc. Heck, random homeless guy on the boardwalk wears actual uniform items! Everybody does it- go for it! Just be prepared for dorks/meat-heads from/associated with other services making really thoughtful, intelligent, funny comments on your choice... Or old guys who did a 2yr stint a million years ago telling you aaaallllllll about it. Same as wearing just about any other label.

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