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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zac808 View Post
    Great write up. Ive been usung SPDs for 14 yrs and still get "stuck" in them every once in a while. I have the scars and bruises to prove it..lol.
    Thanks. I know that clipless has its compromises. For me, this is just less compromising.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by someoldfart View Post
    Interesting mod. If it works for you do it. I wonder if perhaps it is not spring tension but shoe sole friction on the pedal? I had one version of Shimano shoes M240 that fit tightly against the pedal body which because of of the friction made the pedal tougher to release from. I was fine with that though and liked the more stable connection.
    Good point... but no. Sole tension is not the issue. The issue is that in an emergency situation (i.e. one where I need to get my foot to the ground quickly), my reflex is to pull my foot up or forward. I've done this several times. Even on the lightest spring settings on the SPD pedals, this doesn't work. Once I figure out my error and I consciously move my foot in the right direction, it is sometimes too late. A lighter spring tension will allow me to unclip in an emergency situation that is driven by reflex rather than thought. However, I believe that time in the modified pedals will retrain my reflexes... and that is the goal.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raleighguy29 View Post
    Just switch to crank bros. egg beaters are stupid easy to get out of and so are the candys.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    If the egg beaters and candys are so easy to get out of.... are they irresponsible? I've been told that making SPDs as easy to get out of as candys (or MT50s) is dangerous and irresponsible.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    I agree with the efficiency... that's one reason why I wanted to switch to clipless.

    I used 5:10 impact shoes on platform pedals. The shoe stuck to the pedal like glue and it was roomy enough inside that I had float in the interface between my foot and the shoe vice the shoe and the pedal. But the shoes were heavy and I was constantly trying to adjust to get my foot in the right spot on the pedal. Clipless fixes that and riding with lower spring tension isn't any more dangerous than riding with platforms with respect to my foot accidentally coming off of the pedal.

    I agree... as comfort level increases, so will spring tension. This just allows me more flexibility.


    I wonder why no one here is disparaging Shimano for coming out with the MT50 pedal. It is advertised to be 60% easier to come out of than an SPD. Well, after removing half the springs, my pedals are 50% easier to come out of than SPD. But I see no one telling Shimano that they are not rocket scientists... that they just need to suck it up and try harder... or any of the other comments I have read here.

    Shimano recognized that a good progression would be MT50s to SPDs. This seems logical and reasonable... but it involves buying two sets of pedals vice one. I simply made a mod that would allow for the same training progression as marketed by Shimano... but with only buying one set of pedals. I guess that makes me irresponsible?
    The one thing you see repeated on this site, are suggestions AGAINST using a pedal such as the MT50. A hybrid pedal that combines platform and clipless does neither well. You either get a dedicated clipless pedal, or a dedicated platform. The reason why Shimano creates such a pedal is because people with inexperience buy them without realizing just how bad they are. After a short time with such a pedal, people realize just how bad they are.
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by SandSpur View Post
    The one thing you see repeated on this site, are suggestions AGAINST using a pedal such as the MT50. A hybrid pedal that combines platform and clipless does neither well. You either get a dedicated clipless pedal, or a dedicated platform. The reason why Shimano creates such a pedal is because people with inexperience buy them without realizing just how bad they are. After a short time with such a pedal, people realize just how bad they are.
    So, your argument is that Shimano was irresponsible for making the MT50? How about CB with their lightly springed pedals? And what about those people (like me) who actually liked the MT50s... are we wrong too? Or are you suggesting that I am the only one who likes the MT50s and that EVERYONE else hates them?

    Question: Have you even tried MT50s?

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    So, your argument is that Shimano was irresponsible for making the MT50? How about CB with their lightly springed pedals? And what about those people (like me) who actually liked the MT50s... are we wrong too? Or are you suggesting that I am the only one who likes the MT50s and that EVERYONE else hates them?

    Question: Have you even tried MT50s?
    Irresponsible is not a word I used. Its a product, just a crap one. As I said, which you obviously missed, a hybrid pedal does neither platform nor clipless well.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by SandSpur View Post
    Irresponsible is not a word I used. Its a product, just a crap one. As I said, which you obviously missed, a hybrid pedal does neither platform nor clipless well.
    Then we should agree to disagree. You think the MT50 is a crap product. I think it is a very useful product. I liked it very much. I don't know for sure, but I can imagine that there are many people who use them and are satisfied with them. Just because you don't think they are a good product doesn't make it so. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

    But you haven't answered my question. Have you even tried MT50s? I don't think they are a "hybrid" pedal. That's something that you made up. Shimano saw the benefit of making the spring tension of their pedals adjustable. In fact this is cited frequently as one of the reasons Shimanos are superior. The MT50 merely extends the range of adjustability... as does the mod that I did.

  8. #58
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    OK lets settle this now and stop wasting our time please.

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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    Then we should agree to disagree. You think the MT50 is a crap product. I think it is a very useful product. I liked it very much. I don't know for sure, but I can imagine that there are many people who use them and are satisfied with them. Just because you don't think they are a good product doesn't make it so. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

    But you haven't answered my question. Have you even tried MT50s? I don't think they are a "hybrid" pedal. That's something that you made up. Shimano saw the benefit of making the spring tension of their pedals adjustable. In fact this is cited frequently as one of the reasons Shimanos are superior. The MT50 merely extends the range of adjustability... as does the mod that I did.
    Sure, shimano themselves dont use the term "hybrid", but that pedal, by definition, is a hybrid.

    Shimano is marketing the pedal as one that "is engineered to deliver all the benefits of SPD without the intimidation factor and learning curve of traditional clipless pedals. " Theyre marketing the pedal to be used with their specific shoes, which give comfort when also walking. Walking around in the same shoes you ride in isnt typically something a cyclist is interested in.

    if you liked the MT50 so much, why did you switch away from it?

    Have i used the MT50? That specific model, No. Ive not used a hybrid pedal in many years, way before the MT50 was introduced. But when I was a beginner, I did use one of shimano's other hybrid platform/SPD pedals.. They all have the same problem. Using a typical flat shoe doesnt give anywhere near the grip as a dedicated platform pedal, so theyre just a bulky clipless pedal. Once a cyclist is experienced enough to realize what they want, they choose which side of the flat/clipless fence to jump to.
    Put a mountain biker in a room with 2 bowling balls and we'll break one and lose the other - GelatiCruiser

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    Good point... but no. Sole tension is not the issue. The issue is that in an emergency situation (i.e. one where I need to get my foot to the ground quickly), my reflex is to pull my foot up or forward. I've done this several times. Even on the lightest spring settings on the SPD pedals, this doesn't work. Once I figure out my error and I consciously move my foot in the right direction, it is sometimes too late. A lighter spring tension will allow me to unclip in an emergency situation that is driven by reflex rather than thought. However, I believe that time in the modified pedals will retrain my reflexes... and that is the goal.
    This is because you have not learned how to properly unclip, and are attempting to bypass the proper way to do it. When the cleats are new, no matter the tension setting, they can be a bit of work to get out. The more they are used, the easier it becomes. Partly due to the wear on them, and partly due to the practice of actually going through the motion and getting used to it. Instead of learning how to properly do it, you are taking a shortcut. Whatever works for you I guess.
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    Good point... but no. Sole tension is not the issue. The issue is that in an emergency situation (i.e. one where I need to get my foot to the ground quickly), my reflex is to pull my foot up or forward. I've done this several times. Even on the lightest spring settings on the SPD pedals, this doesn't work. Once I figure out my error and I consciously move my foot in the right direction, it is sometimes too late. A lighter spring tension will allow me to unclip in an emergency situation that is driven by reflex rather than thought. However, I believe that time in the modified pedals will retrain my reflexes... and that is the goal.


    DING DING DING......there lies the problem.

    The natural reflex for all of us is to pull our foot up to release the cleat.

    However, with a little bit of practice, we have all learned to use the pedals/release our feet properly.

    Those that can't figure it out, go back to riding flats.
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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbikej View Post
    DING DING DING......there lies the problem.

    The natural reflex for all of us is to pull our foot up to release the cleat.

    However, with a little bit of practice, we have all learned to use the pedals/release our feet properly.

    Those that can't figure it out, go back to riding flats.
    So, if you are in agreement about the natural reflex, why would you be opposed to someone retaining that reflex in a way that doesn't cause injury? Does a person really need to accumulate a portfolio of scars to be in your clipless club? And really... why do you care what other riders do in the first place? I simply posted a mod for the benefit of people who have had the same issues as me. I didn't post to be judgemental.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by TenSpeed View Post
    This is because you have not learned how to properly unclip, and are attempting to bypass the proper way to do it. When the cleats are new, no matter the tension setting, they can be a bit of work to get out. The more they are used, the easier it becomes. Partly due to the wear on them, and partly due to the practice of actually going through the motion and getting used to it. Instead of learning how to properly do it, you are taking a shortcut. Whatever works for you I guess.
    I completely disagree. I am not bypassing anything except for injury. This is NOTa shortcut. I am learning exactly the same thing you learned...just without the scars to prove it.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by SandSpur View Post
    Sure, shimano themselves dont use the term "hybrid", but that pedal, by definition, is a hybrid.
    Maybe I simply don't understand your definition of the word hybrid.

    Shimano is marketing the pedal as one that "is engineered to deliver all the benefits of SPD without the intimidation factor and learning curve of traditional clipless pedals. "
    Isn't that EXACTLY what I've been saying?

    Theyre marketing the pedal to be used with their specific shoes, which give comfort when also walking. Walking around in the same shoes you ride in isnt typically something a cyclist is interested in.
    Shimano markets ALL of their pedals to go with shimano shoes.


    if you liked the MT50 so much, why did you switch away from it?
    For the reasons I've already stated... xts are lighter and they have better clearance.

    Have i used the MT50? That specific model, No. Ive not used a hybrid pedal in many years, way before the MT50 was introduced. But when I was a beginner, I did use one of shimano's other hybrid platform/SPD pedals.. They all have the same problem. Using a typical flat shoe doesnt give anywhere near the grip as a dedicated platform pedal, so theyre just a bulky clipless pedal. Once a cyclist is experienced enough to realize what they want, they choose which side of the flat/clipless fence to jump to.
    I don't use my MT50s with flat shoes... or my XTs. So I don't understand your point.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    Maybe I simply don't understand your definition of the word hybrid.
    Dictionary. That MT50 is a combination of Flat and traditional SPD.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    Isn't that EXACTLY what I've been saying?
    Yes, but that doesnt mean its a good idea. Shimano markets a wide array of products, hoping to have all bases of the market covered.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    Shimano markets ALL of their pedals to go with shimano shoes.
    Correct, but the MT50 is marketed for use as part of their "Click'R" line. Their marketing is geared toward the "Hey, do you want to walk in mountain bike shoes? Do typical SPD pedals intimidate you? Try our Click'R system! "Walk AND ride comfort & performance"

    SHIMANO CLICK'R - TECHNOLOGIES - CYCLING FOOTWEAR AND PEDALS - LIFESTYLE GEAR - SHIMANO



    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    For the reasons I've already stated... xts are lighter and they have better clearance.
    You already realize the benefits, but you modify the pedal so you can pull straight out instead of slipping your foot to the side. This goes against not only the benefit of clipless, but does nothing to build a new motor memory. The -56 cleat that comes with the MT50, along with an unmodified XT pedal in the lightest tension, is usually light enough to disengage from the pedal pulling straight up. I know mine always did. Any lighter? I couldnt imagine how frustrating it would be trying to keep my foot in.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    I don't use my MT50s with flat does... or my XTs. Do I don't understand your point.
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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SandSpur View Post
    Dictionary. That MT50 is a combination of Flat and traditional SPD.
    I don't think that's what MT50s are. But your point is moot because this thread is about modding XTs.


    Yes, but that doesnt mean its a good idea. Shimano markets a wide array of products, hoping to have all bases of the market covered.




    Correct, but the MT50 is marketed for use as part of their "Click'R" line. Their marketing is geared toward the "Hey, do you want to walk in mountain bike shoes? Do typical SPD pedals intimidate you? Try our Click'R system! "Walk AND ride comfort & performance"

    SHIMANO CLICK'R - TECHNOLOGIES - CYCLING FOOTWEAR AND PEDALS - LIFESTYLE GEAR - SHIMANO
    I don't get your point or how it applies to this thread.


    You already realize the benefits, but you modify the pedal so you can pull straight out instead of slipping your foot to the side. This goes against not only the benefit of clipless, but does nothing to build a new motor memory. The -56 cleat that comes with the MT50, along with an unmodified XT pedal in the lightest tension, is usually light enough to disengage from the pedal pulling straight up. I know mine always did. Any lighter? I couldnt imagine how frustrating it would be trying to keep my foot in.
    Again, we can agree to disagree. But given that you haven't tried a pedal with a light spring tension like the MT50 or a modded pair of XTs, I guess you aren't speaking from experience. I've used all of pedals I just described.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkeley Mike View Post
    People often start mtb not realizing it is an advanced discipline of cycling. They just go out and expect to learn by trial and error. They really need to work on cycling skills on pave. It is similar with SPDs; folks throw them on the bike and simply expect to work through the learning period.

    What is needed is practice outside of the mtb experience. .
    Good observation and advice IMO.

    Jim_bo- I haven't used the particular spd model you're talking about but I've used lots of them and my experience is that they can be set to have very light action without modification. Easy release and having them release when they're not supposed to are two different things.

  18. #68
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    So, bottom line by your [OP's] explanation, by making it easier to disengage with incorrect form, you will never learn and pattern the required action to get out of a properly tensioned SPD as long as you rely on your "frankenpedals." You have effectively increased the learning curve of proper use and will likely still have issues should you chose to use an unmodified pedal.

    Damn! Just go to a grassy flat area and practice for an hour and get it over with. With the time you have spent here arguing your righteous cause, you could be a pro SPD user. This has grown to tiring ridiculousness.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Good observation and advice IMO.

    Jim_bo- I haven't used the particular spd model you're talking about but I've used lots of them and my experience is that they can be set to have very light action without modification. Easy release and having them release when they're not supposed to are two different things.
    So what's your point? Are you saying that one pair of Shimano pedals has a minimum spring tension so that sets the bar for what I should use as a minimum spring tension? But since another set of Shimano pedals has a lower minimum spring tension, I should disregard that simply because you haven't used those pedals and it wouldn't provide you benefit?





    Exactly what the hell is wrong with you people? I simply modded a set of XT pedals such that they perform like Click'r pedals. You'd think that I F'd the virgin Mary by the reaction people have had. I've been told everything from "you should try harder" to "you're just a Pu$$y" to people wishing injury upon me. Did I really commit the sin of not being like everyone else? How many scars to I need to display in order to not take a bunch of crap about a simple pedal mod? How much do I need to be like you people to make you feel better about yourselves?



    Let's summarize this whole thread:

    -I modded a pair of XT pedals so that they perform like MT50s but with less weight and more clearance.

    -Many people don't understand why I could possibly have problems with stock XT pedals... but then, I don't really understand why many people have problems understanding math

    -I prefer the mod and given that Shimano obviously has a customer base for the MT50s, I'm sure a lot of other people would like the mod as well.

    -LOTS of people have leaned how to successfully use SPD pedals without any mods. I understand this. I get it. But you aren't me and you aren't the kind of person that this thread was targeted towards.

    -Apparently, I am not masculine enough, strong enough, smart enough, skilled enough or responsible enough to use the product that is far more likely to result in injury.

    -Despite the fact that this thread was created to benefit a very narrow niche of mountain bikers, the majority of posters here feel compelled to berate, belittle and criticize that which they do not know, understand or identify with. The term luddite comes to mind. Look it up... you may find yourself looking in a mirror.



    I'm more than happy to discuss the mod with anyone. I'm more than happy to discuss the mechanical interfaces, the physics involved, riding styles appropriate for the mod, spring force coefficients, static/dynamic moment arm calculations, kinematics, moments of inertia, material properties, etc. I'm also more than happy to discuss the pros and cons of the mod, techniques for training muscle memory, effect of the mod on float, sole interference, cleat design, etc . But if all you want to do is tell me that I am less of a person because I like the mod, then you are an a$$hole and I really don't want your comment at all.

    By the way... J.B. Weld, my venting isn't geared all towards you. You just happened to be there when the venting began.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh My Sack! View Post
    So, bottom line by your [OP's] explanation, by making it easier to disengage with incorrect form, you will never learn and pattern the required action to get out of a properly tensioned SPD as long as you rely on your "frankenpedals." You have effectively increased the learning curve of proper use and will likely still have issues should you chose to use an unmodified pedal.

    Damn! Just go to a grassy flat area and practice for an hour and get it over with. With the time you have spent here arguing your righteous cause, you could be a pro SPD user. This has grown to tiring ridiculousness.
    Here's another option: Since you are obviously not the type of person/rider that this thread was intended for... why not just STFU. If this has grown to tiring ridiculousness, then please... by all means... stay out of this thread. That is unless you have the narcissistic compulsion to show that anyone who does things differently than you is obviously wrong and irresponsible. I don't have that need. My ego isn't nearly that big and my self esteem isn't nearly that low.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    So what's your point? Are you saying that one pair of Shimano pedals has a minimum spring tension so that sets the bar for what I should use as a minimum spring tension? But since another set of Shimano pedals has a lower minimum spring tension, I should disregard that simply because you haven't used those pedals and it wouldn't provide you benefit?



    Exactly what the hell is wrong with you people?

    Whew, you sure are a feisty one Jim_bo!

    Actually my point was that IME most Shimano pedals at their lowest tension are already scary light for most people and requires good pedaling technique not to inadvertently clip out at that setting, and that maybe something might be wrong with the ones you have. Recommending a mod that will most likely do more harm than good based on your (somewhat) limited experiences just seems a little dodgy to me.

  22. #72
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    Re: Making SPD pedals easier to use

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    Exactly what the hell is wrong with you people? ... You'd think that I F'd the virgin Mary by the reaction people have had. I've been told everything from "you should try harder" to "you're just a Pu$$y" to people wishing injury upon me. Did I really commit the sin of not being like everyone else? How many scars to I need to display in order to not take a bunch of crap about a simple pedal mod? How much do I need to be like you people to make you feel better about yourselves?



    -Apparently, I am not masculine enough, strong enough, smart enough, skilled enough or responsible enough to use the product that is far more likely to result in injury.

    ... the majority of posters here feel compelled to berate, belittle and criticize that which they do not know, understand or identify with. The term luddite comes to mind. Look it up... you may find yourself looking in a mirror.



    ... But if all you want to do is tell me that I am less of a person because I like the mod, then you are an a$$hole and I really don't want your comment at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    why not just STFU.
    ... That is unless you have the narcissistic compulsion to show that anyone who does things differently than you is obviously wrong and irresponsible. I don't have that need. My ego isn't nearly that big and my self esteem isn't nearly that low.

    Actually, if you reread the entire thread, you yourself did all of the things you are accusing others of...you should really see someone about your obvious projection, overcompensating ego, and low self esteem issues. It must be daunting for you to be so angry, in need of validation, and unhappy all the time.
    Last edited by iscariot; 09-01-2014 at 04:11 PM.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Whew, you sure are a feisty one Jim_bo!

    Actually my point was that IME most Shimano pedals at their lowest tension are already scary light for most people and requires good pedaling technique not to inadvertently clip out at that setting, and that maybe something might be wrong with the ones you have. Recommending a mod that will most likely do more harm than good based on your (somewhat) limited experiences just seems a little dodgy to me.
    I'm not sure how to quantify "scary light". But what I do know is the first time I tried spd pedals, the results were not good... at all. I switched to platforms for a couple years and decided to go back. The click'r setup worked great, so I tried xts. Not nearly as bad as the first time I ride spds, but still bad. Improvement occurred... just not enough. More time on the modded pedals and I should be fine. But the mod makes a nice stop gap.

    One thing I know for sure. If I were to figure out a way to make magical improvements to a bike... I would not share it here. Way to many people that would rather berate, belittle and criticize rather than understand and consider something different that that which they are used to.

    If I were to post here that I was using MT50s, no one would have said a thing. But, since I said I modded xts to work like MT50s, I get a ration of sh!t. Last time I'll make that mistake.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigkat273 View Post
    Unfortunately the attitude of the OP is also held by those individuals who sanitize tech sections of trail so they can clean it without learning how to ride at a higher level.
    Exactly.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_bo View Post
    I'm not sure how to quantify "scary light". But what I do know is the first time I tried spd pedals, the results were not good... at all. I switched to platforms for a couple years and decided to go back. The click'r setup worked great, so I tried xts. Not nearly as bad as the first time I ride spds, but still bad. Improvement occurred... just not enough. More time on the modded pedals and I should be fine. But the mod makes a nice stop gap.

    One thing I know for sure. If I were to figure out a way to make magical improvements to a bike... I would not share it here. Way to many people that would rather berate, belittle and criticize rather than understand and consider something different that that which they are used to.

    If I were to post here that I was using MT50s, no one would have said a thing. But, since I said I modded xts to work like MT50s, I get a ration of sh!t. Last time I'll make that mistake.
    You sure have a short memory.

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