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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    This was all covered in other replies if you had bothered to read them.
    I actually did "bother..." to read and digest it all, but still feel there is a grey area regarding HS's that do not use a "cup". The cup dimension is cloned and the dimension is machined into the headset tube. And yes, the cone type cartridge bearing runs on the machined alloy surface in the headtube.

    My original query stands...can someone accurately define the differences between an integrated and integral headset and acknowledge they do exist. We certainly may not want them, but they are out there...what is what?

    I also would not consider CK's PDF document in their 2002 memo a "rant.."

    comments were also made that state "all current available..." that might be a legitimate response, so prove it to be a fact. If you really feel I am mistaken, and document your position, I will suck it up.

    I really do not have a horse in this race!...and

    my bike is fine...
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  2. #27
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    Octopus ink.

  3. #28
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    intergrated headset on an alloy frame?

    Quote Originally Posted by time229er View Post
    I actually did "bother..." to read and digest it all, but still feel there is a grey area regarding HS's that do not use a "cup". The cup dimension is cloned and the dimension is machined into the headset tube. And yes, the cone type cartridge bearing runs on the machined alloy surface in the headtube.

    My original query stands...can someone accurately define the differences between an integrated and integral headset and acknowledge they do exist. We certainly may not want them, but they are out there...what is what?

    I also would not consider CK's PDF document in their 2002 memo a "rant.."

    comments were also made that state "none currently available.." that might be a legitimate response, so prove it to be a fact. If you really feel I am mistaken, and document your position, I will suck it up.

    I really do not have a horse in this race!
    You need to get your SHIS straight.

    As far as current HS standards go, there is no "integral" headset.
    Proving something does not exist is pretty much impossible, but unless you have a '90s Klein, time trial bike, or some other odd or custom bike it is going to use an off the shelf production SHIS headset.
    It is up to you to show us a frame that uses something else.

    http://www.canecreek.com/tech-center/headsets/shis
    http://www.canecreek.com/tech-center.../shis/overview
    http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-...dset-standards

    Hope calls their internal/Zero Stack HS "Integral." That just confuses things when SHIS is widely used.
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    You need to get your SHIS straight.

    As far as current HS standards go, there is no "integral" headset.
    Proving something does not exist is pretty much impossible, but unless you have a '90s Klein, time trial bike, or some other odd or custom bike it is going to use an off the shelf production SHIS headset.
    It is up to you to show us a frame that uses something else.

    Tech Center | Headsets | SHIS
    SHIS Overview
    Park Tool Co. ParkTool Blog Headset Standards

    Hope calls their internal/Zero Stack HS "Integral." That just confuses things when SHIS is widely used.
    could be this thread has beat itself up...all good though

    thank you shiggy...
    2014 Nail Trail 29er

  5. #30
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    intergrated headset on an alloy frame?

    Quote Originally Posted by time229er View Post
    could be this thread has beat itself up...all good though

    thank you shiggy...
    Pretty much all but one poster understood what was being discussed.
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  6. #31
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    intergrated headset on an alloy frame?

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Pretty much all but one poster understood what was being discussed.
    I get it...just not sure I was effective describing my position...oh well
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  7. #32
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    intergrated headset on an alloy frame?

    Quote Originally Posted by time229er View Post
    I get it...just not sure I was effective describing my position...oh well
    You have been totally ineffective in making your point or asking your question.

    Just show us this "integral" headset so we know what you are talking about.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    You have been totally ineffective in making your point or asking your question.

    Just show us this "integral" headset so we know what you are talking about.
    my question is self expainatory...are there two HS "standards"...integrated and integral this has been my question from the beginning...not sure why the answer is so difficult to respond to...

    as per shiggy's request, I have enclosed pictures of my FSA Orbit 1.5B ZS HT for the second time...see #7...not sure why he wanted it though, as FSA's website is clear as to what makes their zero-stack tick. And I also never said mine was "integral". All I ever wanted was a description of each.

    Somehow though, my desire to get an accurate definition/description has waned considerably...geeez
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails intergrated headset on an alloy frame?-dsc01886.jpg  

    intergrated headset on an alloy frame?-dsc01884.jpg  

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  9. #34
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    intergrated headset on an alloy frame?

    Quote Originally Posted by time229er View Post
    my question is self expainatory...are there two HS "standards"...integrated and integral this has been my question from the beginning...not sure why the answer is so difficult to respond to...

    as per shiggy's request, I have enclosed picture of my FSA Orbit 1.5B ZS HT for the second time...see #7...not sure why he wanted it though, as FSA's website is clear as to what makes their zero-stack tick. And I also never said mine was "integral". All I wanted was a description of each as I am not sure which catagory mine falls into.

    Somehow my desire to get an accurate definition/description has waned considerably...
    It is difficult because "integral" is NOT a term used for headset "standards" though it seems to be used by a few manufacturers.

    You are still confused as I never asked to see YOUR headset, or claimed you said your HS was integral.

    I asked for you to post pics or info about the HS type you are calling integral.

    I posted several links describing and illustrating the various HS types and accepted industry terminology. Can not be much more accurate than that.

    As for your headset, you said it yourself: it is a Zero Stack (ZS). That is internal. ALL of the relevant info has been supplied in this thread. Several times.
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  10. #35
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    okay...I did find a copy of the CK PDF I was eluding to...it describes in detail that the integrated is the red haired step child...the headset bearings do ride directly on the HT, and yes, it was dated 2002..and no, CK does not support it. I feel so much better now...well, not really.
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  11. #36
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    I've read through this thread with complete bafflement.

    What is your specific concern? That you have a bike with an IS headset?
    Quote Originally Posted by ridelikeafatkid
    "MOMMY, I WANT TO RIDE LIKE THAT FAT KID!" true story.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by trboxman View Post
    I've read through this thread with complete bafflement.

    What is your specific concern? That you have a bike with an IS headset?
    what is so complicated about wanting to understand which HS has the bearing that runs directly on the HT?
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by time229er View Post
    what is so complicated about wanting to understand which HS has the bearing that runs directly on the HT?

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by time229er View Post
    what is so complicated about wanting to understand which HS has the bearing that runs directly on the HT?
    What's so complicated about the S.H.I.S documentation that it doesn't provide an answer for your question?

    Or about any of Shiggy's responses?
    Quote Originally Posted by ridelikeafatkid
    "MOMMY, I WANT TO RIDE LIKE THAT FAT KID!" true story.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by trboxman View Post
    What's so complicated about the S.H.I.S documentation that it doesn't provide an answer for your question?

    Or about any of Shiggy's responses?
    I was not familiar with the SHIS document till now...Park's website had the perfect explanation. Shiggy had mentioned it, but unitil you mentioned it again, I had not googled it.
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  16. #41
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    intergrated headset on an alloy frame?

    Quote Originally Posted by time229er View Post
    I was not familiar with the SHIS document till now...Park's website had the perfect explanation. Shiggy had mentioned it, but unitil you mentioned it again, I had not googled it.
    This is proof you did not bother to read the replies.
    I. Provided. LINKS. To. ALL. Of. The. info!
    You did not need to do a Google search.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by time229er View Post
    I was not familiar with the SHIS document till now...Park's website had the perfect explanation. Shiggy had mentioned it, but unitil you mentioned it again, I had not googled it.
    So, in other words, you didn't read any of the links provided and continued to ask the same question answered by the links... Or am I misinterpreting your statement regarding the SHIS documentation?
    Quote Originally Posted by ridelikeafatkid
    "MOMMY, I WANT TO RIDE LIKE THAT FAT KID!" true story.

  18. #43
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    intergrated headset on an alloy frame?

    Quote Originally Posted by time229er View Post
    what is so complicated about wanting to understand which HS has the bearing that runs directly on the HT?
    What is so complicated about understanding the numerous replies that answered that question?
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  19. #44
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    I'm still confused as to why we were shown drivetrain pics?
    I guide and rent bikes in Northern Utah

    http://www.facebook.com/AdventureEarthRides

  20. #45
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    Diversion.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    What is so complicated about understanding the numerous replies that answered that question?
    yeah, it certainly appears I did not pay attention to your links...I guess I just enjoy your company...and so let's just all pile on guys...I certainly will attempt to be more diligent in the future...
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    I'm still confused as to why we were shown drivetrain pics?
    good question...should not have happened
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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by time229er View Post
    yeah, it certainly appears I did not pay attention to your links...I guess I just enjoy your company...and so let's just all pile on guys...I certainly will attempt to be more diligent in the future...
    No hard feelings, your apparent lack of engagement with the content given to answer your question made you look like a troll.

    Personally I try to never attribute to malice that which can be explained as ignorance...
    Quote Originally Posted by ridelikeafatkid
    "MOMMY, I WANT TO RIDE LIKE THAT FAT KID!" true story.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by trboxman View Post
    No hard feelings, your apparent lack of engagement with the content given to answer your question made you look like a troll.

    Personally I try to never attribute to malice that which can be explained as ignorance...
    thanks...I appreciate that. I guess it's okay to admit being ignorant.
    2014 Nail Trail 29er

  25. #50
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    Well, to be fair, he did have some good advice.


    Quote Originally Posted by time229er View Post
    I agree with (as in I do not agree) with your "none of them use..." Do a little homework and get back to us...and maybe do a search on the Chris King website. There will be a test in the morning and yeah it certainly is idiotic

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