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Thread: i9 vs Cris King

  1. #1
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    i9 vs Cris King

    what do you prefer?

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  3. #3
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    DT Swiss 240 & Onyx Sprag.
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    how many points of engment does that have?

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    I like to here the hub so probably not the onyx, but how many points of engment does the 240s have?

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    I have Kapius hub. It is sealed and more durable than Chris king

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    Quote Originally Posted by evan.c View Post
    I like to here the hub so probably not the onyx, but how many points of engment does the 240s have?
    18,36 or 54 you choose. Super durable.
    I choose to live and to lie..kill and to give and to die..learn and love and to do what it takes to step through. MJK

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    I know 54 is good... I have a dt swiss hub with 54 points currently, its just not the same as a cris king or i9.

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    I 9 is heavy compared my kapius

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    Quote Originally Posted by evan.c View Post
    what do you prefer?
    DT, 25 years from now, the DTs will still be chugging along. My Hugis from Ď92 are, but my Chris Kings are dead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evan.c View Post
    I know 54 is good... I have a dt swiss hub with 54 points currently, its just not the same as a cris king or i9.
    I think your opinion drifts when you've asploded a few hubs. I'll take CK over i9, and 36t DT over 54. If you don't make any power... get one of those koozer hubs.
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    Chris King. To be fair I havenít run much else. I still have a my original rigid single speed Ibis from the mid eighties with all CK Been using CK mountains bike stuff over 30 years. Fairly easy maintenance. Still running fine. So I usually always use CK stuff . I trust them. Made USA . I had a bike that came with DT Swiss stuff worked fine. Didnít keep that bike to long though.
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    Still running a set of 10 yr old CK hubs. Started on a Switchblade then have been doing duty on the Endorphin. Keep 'em maintained and no issues.
    FWIW, my style of riding tends to be bowling ball down the stairs so....they were not babied.
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    I'm not sure about I9s, but CK angular contact bearings are a real plus. In fact, angular contact anything is a real plus. I wish FS bike pivots were equipped with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisgah View Post
    I'm not sure about I9s, but CK angular contact bearings are a real plus. In fact, angular contact anything is a real plus. I wish FS bike pivots were equipped with them.
    Do you mean tapered bearings, or angular contact? Lots of MTB stuff has angular contact.

    I go for DT Swiss and Hope. DT for their far simpler drive mechanism that can be replaced and serviced with no tools.
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    Another vote for DT Swiss.

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    Love my Kings. They keep the hikers at bay and are bombproof. Although if I wasnít so hooked on CK the i9ís have always been my next choice. Quite a few good choices out there these days though. My Kings are 10 years old now and have never giving any hint of failing.

    I never get sick of the sound. And all joking aside they really do act as a warning sound approaching hikers. As I come up behind a hiker I simply coast and or backpedal to get them humming. Works more often than not.

    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    There's nothing wrong with Kings, or I9's, or DT's for that matter.

    If you want pretty colors, strong, and cheaper, Hopes are a great option also.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by evan.c View Post
    how many points of engment does that have?
    A billionty.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    A billionty.
    That seems like a lot.
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  21. #21
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    CK any day
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Do you mean tapered bearings, or angular contact? Lots of MTB stuff has angular contact.

    Angular Contact. My post expressed wishes for angular contact bearings at full suspension pivots points (which I haven't seen in any bikes).

    I have two 240Ss. They are simple, but bearing play cannot be adjusted.

  23. #23
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    I prefer I9...got em on all my bikes.

    (Aside: only like 3 people have actually answered the OP's original question.)
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    Chris King for headsets.
    White Industries for hubs.
    Ind.9 for pre-built/complete wheels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattMay View Post
    I prefer I9...got em on all my bikes.

    (Aside: only like 3 people have actually answered the OP's original question.)
    Kind of hard to answer that question unless youíve had extensive experience running both brands for comparison.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    Good job!

    I have 9 sets of King hubs, 1 set of i9's. The i9's are Enduro's from 2010(?). After 2 month's they failed (free hub froze up). i9 warrantied them. A month later the free hub froze again, i9 warrantied them again. The i9 wheelset was then gifted to another rider (115 lb female). Within 6 mos the free hub failed (again) and she broke 3 spokes (straight pull spokes! yay! not expensive-NOT!). i9 warrantied the freehub, charged for the spokes (which I have no issues with). The female rider then reassigned the i9's to one of her back-up bikes which see very little use (less than 2 rides per year). The i9's have had no issues since she stopped riding them.

    My Kings see between 3500-5000 mi per year. I clean/rebuild my primary King wheel set about every 3-4 mos. Since they switched from RingDrive lube to (high quality) synthetic 10W30, they've been much easier to keep serviced.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE View Post
    Kind of hard to answer that question unless youíve had extensive experience running both brands for comparison.
    Agreed. I love my Kings, but I've never owned i9s. I do know that my Kings have been trouble free and I love the "angry bees" sound.
    "The man was born on third and thinks he hit a triple. But instead of running home, he ran to second base."

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    One main difference you'll find between CK and I9 is in the drive mechanism. I9 employs a modified pawl design which is similar to what you'll find in a Shimano hub(and numerous other brands on the market). CK uses their patented ringdrive system in which a spring-loaded drive ring engages a driven ring -- this gives the hub 72pts simultaneously engaging. Another nice benefit to the King hubs is that the bearings are fully serviceable -- with I9, you'll just replace the bearings when they go. With King, you can do a basic service without the tool, but if you want to do a full overhaul of the rear hub you will need the King hub service tool kit(~$180).

    I9 did have their fair share of issues several years ago, mainly broken pawls, but they have seemed to turned that around in more recent years. I've been running a pair of I9 torch hubs for the last couple years without issue. Having owned/serviced CK hubs over the last 10+ years, I'd go with King just based on the ringdrive mechanism. That said, if you can get a good deal on a set of prebuilt I9's, you won't be disappointed if you go that route.

    Like others have pointed out, there are plenty of other solid hub options to consider as well.

  29. #29
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    Rebellions are built on Hope.
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    Hadley hubs. Made in the USA, 72 points of Engagement, and they handled me when I was weighing 320 lb with no issues. my weight fluctuates quite a bit cuz I'm now down 85 lb. I've also use DT Swiss on my downhill bike and really like them, but it's okay for a DH bike. both jobs are bomb-proof but if you're talkin peddling and writing technical Trails wear engagement important I would take a Hadley over any of the other hubs mentioned any day. Their customer service is unbelievable. Anytime I call and talk to Suzanne she helps me out on the spot, she knows exactly what I'm talking about, and it's not just the end of the conversation there. They're nice people and easy to deal with. Ttyl, Fahn
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    Rebellions are built on Hope.
    Iíve been running Hope brakes for years without any lost hope.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisgah View Post
    ...My post expressed wishes for angular contact bearings at full suspension pivots points (which I haven't seen in any bikes)...
    Santa Cruz used angular contact bearings until a year ago or so before switching to radial bearings.
    Do the math.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Santa Cruz used angular contact bearings until a year ago or so before switching to radial bearings.
    Are radial bearings similar to MAX bearings?

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    I've had Kings, DT240's, I9's and Hope Pro 4 hubs....my Chris Kings have been the most solid, worry free followed by the DT's, Hope's then I9's. I had (2) sets of the previous generation I9's and had to get new bearings 2-3 times a year. A friend had the same issue and that was here in dry SoCal. I9 knew there was an issue so they would send out free bearings when the shop mechanic called. They have supposedly that issue with the current model.

    I currently have (2) sets of Hope Pro 4's and 1 set of CK's. The CK's are a bit older and have been bullet proof. I have replaced the bearings on the Hope's but the biggest difference is how noticeable the lack of engagement is on the Hope's compared to the others. I never really noticed it until I demo'd a bike with the Onyx hubs and realized how bad the Hope's were.
    Last edited by k2rider1964; 08-11-2018 at 06:55 AM.
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    Just throwing another set into the mix here, I have had a set of Profile Elites on my single speed for a few years now. Absolutely love them. 204 POE and the bearings are super smooth... also made right here in the US of A (if that matters to you).

    Personally if I were stuck between I9 and CK I would definitely go with the King's... just personal preference though.

  36. #36
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    This should clear up any confusion about the angular contact bearings, and yes, they are used in many different applications in mtb, not necessarily all pivots and bearings, but they are out there for sure:

    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    I've had Kings, DT240's, I9's and Hope Pro 4 hubs....my Chris Kings have been the most solid, worry free followed by the DT's, Hope's then I9's. I had (2) sets of the previous generation I9's and had to get new bearings 2-3 times a year. A friend had the same issue and that was here is dry SoCal. I9 knew there was an issue so they would send out free bearings when the shop mechanic called.

    I currently have (2) sets of Hope Pro 4's and 1 set of CK's. The CK's are a bit older and have been bullet proof. I have replaced the bearings on the Hope's but the biggest difference is how noticeable the lack of engagement is on the Hope's compared to the others. I never really noticed it until I demo's a bike with the Onyx hubs and realized how bad the Hope'e were.
    /Thread.

    Good to hear from someone with extensive experience on both and then some brands. Glad I went with CKís after reading your thoughts.
    Quote Originally Posted by mileslong View Post
    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

  38. #38
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    Just going to throw in there that Hope has had some serious bearing issues over the years. People will tell you that they've never had a problem, but I know a handful of people that have had exploded bearings in their rear hubs. I know enough people that it happened to that I won't buy a set. It's an easy fix but I am not into having down time from stupid stuff like junk bearings.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisgah View Post
    Are radial bearings similar to MAX bearings?
    Max bearings are cageless. More balls in a given size bearing, which for bicycle applications makes a lot of sense since we don't see high high rpm spinning. They are unrelated features though.


    Quote Originally Posted by SingleSpeedSteven View Post
    Just throwing another set into the mix here, I have had a set of Profile Elites on my single speed for a few years now. Absolutely love them. 204 POE and the bearings are super smooth... also made right here in the US of A (if that matters to you).
    Without more information i tend to see >50 POE as a disadvantage. Without some clever engineering fast engagement means smaller teeth (contact points), tons of pawls, or fewer pawls participating; trading drag or usually durability for faster engagement. Increasing POE is diminishing returns and after 30 or so i stop caring.

    Not to say Profile Elites aren't awesome hubs, i don't know.
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  40. #40
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    I'd pick Chris King but that's more based on personal appearance preference than anything else. I've had Kings, I9s, a few different DT's including 240s, some Shimano hubs, and some formula hubs.

    I don't generally have issues with hubs. The only higher end ones I had any issue with was the DT 240s early on when the 54t ratchet sets first came out. I ended up with an early pair that I had a few teeth crack on. Replaced with a new set and never had any issues. I have MANY more miles on Kings than anything else so maybe that's why I like them so much but they've been 100% trouble-free. I've had two sets of I9s. I prefer the I9 sound to the Kings. One mountain set that doesn't have too many miles and a set on my cross bike that has probably seen the worst conditions of any of my hubs. All my I9s have been problem free. One set has the aluminum spokes and the other is a traditional spoke set. No issues with either.

    Oddly though, I think the most durable set I had was a set of formula hubs on a track bike I commuted on in college. Bought it used with those hubs, never serviced them at all, and they were problem free in all conditions for 3 years of commuting daily so who knows. Maybe it doesn't make any difference?

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    This should clear up any confusion about the angular contact bearings, and yes, they are used in many different applications in mtb, not necessarily all pivots and bearings, but they are out there for sure:

    Cool schematic. For me the real wold effect of angular contact bearings is that they can be adjusted for lateral bearing play. I understand they are used for many applications, but they are barely used at all at full suspension pivot points (someone mentioned Santa Cruz, but I've never owned one).

  42. #42
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    Kings and DT are my top two. I run multiple sets of each, most of them are ~10 years old now.

    Some of my friends went from one of the above to i9's and what they ended up with was a high failure rate and maintenance issues within the first year or two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edubfromktown View Post
    Some of my friends went from one of the above to i9's and what they ended up with was a high failure rate and maintenance issues within the first year or two.
    Torch hubs or the original?

  44. #44
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    Sounds to me like it is not confirmed that i9 has made the change to better the reliability.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    Avid is spelled wrong, there should be an 'O' in there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taroroot View Post
    DT, 25 years from now, the DTs will still be chugging along. My Hugis from Ď92 are, but my Chris Kings are dead.
    What died on your Chris Kings?

  46. #46
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    i9's - I live close enough to Asheville and have friends there so if work needs to be done to any wheels, it is no problem......got two sets, regular geared hubs and single-speed........i9 vs Cris King-imag0535.jpgi9 vs Cris King-imag0529.jpg
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncfisherman View Post
    One main difference you'll find between CK and I9 is in the drive mechanism. I9 employs a modified pawl design which is similar to what you'll find in a Shimano hub(and numerous other brands on the market). CK uses their patented ringdrive system in which a spring-loaded drive ring engages a driven ring -- this gives the hub 72pts simultaneously engaging. Another nice benefit to the King hubs is that the bearings are fully serviceable -- with I9, you'll just replace the bearings when they go. With King, you can do a basic service without the tool, but if you want to do a full overhaul of the rear hub you will need the King hub service tool kit(~$180).

    I9 did have their fair share of issues several years ago, mainly broken pawls, but they have seemed to turned that around in more recent years. I've been running a pair of I9 torch hubs for the last couple years without issue. Having owned/serviced CK hubs over the last 10+ years, I'd go with King just based on the ringdrive mechanism. That said, if you can get a good deal on a set of prebuilt I9's, you won't be disappointed if you go that route.

    Like others have pointed out, there are plenty of other solid hub options to consider as well.
    I just serviced my i9 hubs and bearings yesterday. Pop the seals off the bearings, clean and lube, put the seal back on.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisgah View Post
    Cool schematic. For me the real wold effect of angular contact bearings is that they can be adjusted for lateral bearing play. I understand they are used for many applications, but they are barely used at all at full suspension pivot points (someone mentioned Santa Cruz, but I've never owned one).
    Don't angular bearings require side loading? I have a CK BB and it appears the degree of preloading is an important factor.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    I have 9 sets of King hubs, 1 set of i9's. The i9's are Enduro's from 2010(?). After 2 month's they failed (free hub froze up). i9 warrantied them. A month later the free hub froze again, i9 warrantied them again. The i9 wheelset was then gifted to another rider (115 lb female). Within 6 mos the free hub failed (again) and she broke 3 spokes (straight pull spokes! yay! not expensive-NOT!). i9 warrantied the freehub, charged for the spokes (which I have no issues with). The female rider then reassigned the i9's to one of her back-up bikes which see very little use (less than 2 rides per year). The i9's have had no issues since she stopped riding them.

    My Kings see between 3500-5000 mi per year. I clean/rebuild my primary King wheel set about every 3-4 mos. Since they switched from RingDrive lube to (high quality) synthetic 10W30, they've been much easier to keep serviced.


    Kings.

    Been thinking about I9s for my next full wheel wheel set as I can get them at a good price. But, many trails I ride are very "raw" and off the beaten path, and here in the NE that means lots of small sticks and twigs in my spokes. I've had them put me to a complete stop with no damage to my steel spokes and brass nips. Spoke to I9 and they seem very cool, but not sure if I can trust those aluminum spokes. I've personally seen them snap very easily.


    Kings... Over the long run they are not expensive. I've lost count but pretty sure one set I'm running right now has like 15+ years on it.

    My other King hub, over 10 years old has now been given to, and ridden hard by my son, and I expect to last another several years.

    Maintenance on Kings is quite easy. Just a ring drive and teflon spray lube flush twice a year and pop the seals on the bearing maybe once a year and they are good. Then about every 3 to 4 years, when I rebuild the wheel, the hubs go back to King for a full service and any free upgrades or warrantee issues.

    Front hubs... Kings are nice, but maybe overkill. I usually run DT 350s up front.

    DTs out back.... I've had bearings go bad in a 240 rear hub in very short order and it caused me quite the hassle to fix it. I couldn't even access the bearing to be sure of the problem. Had to resort to driving 1 1/2 hrs away to a shop for a fix. Not sure I'd buy them again.

    In short.... Rear hubs, King all the way.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    I just serviced my i9 hubs and bearings yesterday. Pop the seals off the bearings, clean and lube, put the seal back on.
    Good luck adjusting for bearing play.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_chrome View Post
    i9's - I live close enough to Asheville and have friends there so if work needs to be done to any wheels, it is no problem......got two sets, regular geared hubs and single-speed........
    Good to have friends in high places. 
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncfisherman View Post
    Good luck adjusting for bearing play.
    No bearing play. Had there been, I'd have replaced it. What are they, $10?
    I've probably got 2500 miles on them.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSU Alum View Post
    No bearing play. Had there been, I'd have replaced it. What are they, $10?
    I've probably got 2500 miles on them.
    Like I said in my original post(which you quoted), King bearings are fully serviceable. They don't need to be replaced. With the Enduro bearings used by I9, you will need to replace them when there is bearing play.

    Yes, Enduro bearings are cheap to replace though.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncfisherman View Post
    Like I said in my original post(which you quoted), King bearings are fully serviceable. They don't need to be replaced. With the Enduro bearings used by I9, you will need to replace them when there is bearing play.

    Yes, Enduro bearings are cheap to replace though.
    Yeah, I don't really know what I was thinking.

  55. #55
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    I bought Chris Kings just because I like to say Chris Kings. It kinda rolls off the tongue with a little more finess than i9ís does.
    i9 vs Cris King-cb66d24f-7117-4d36-ac39-87e31926967d.jpeg
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    I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Maintenance on Kings is quite easy. Just a ring drive and teflon spray lube flush twice a year and pop the seals on the bearing maybe once a year and they are good. Then about every 3 to 4 years, when I rebuild the wheel, the hubs go back to King for a full service and any free upgrades or warrantee issues.
    I have been running a set of Chris Kings the last 4 years, that I had bought used. Similar maintenance time frame as what you stated and they have been trouble free. I actually bought the CK tool set last year and while the price was hard to swallow, it sure makes quick work of completely overhauling the rear hub.

    If you don't mind me asking, what free upgrades have you received when returning your hubs for service and do they still warranty certain parts on hubs older than five years?

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ncfisherman View Post
    Like I said in my original post(which you quoted), King bearings are fully serviceable. They don't need to be replaced. With the Enduro bearings used by I9, you will need to replace them when there is bearing play.

    Yes, Enduro bearings are cheap to replace though.
    I-9 (Enduro) bearings are fully serviceable too. Why do you think they are not serviceable?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    I-9 (Enduro) bearings are fully serviceable too. Why do you think they are not serviceable?
    Once the enduro bearing goes bad, there is no way to adjust out the play. With a King axle, you can use the adjusting cone to address bearing play. Pretty minor, but it's a nice feature.

    Bearings aside, the main difference is the ringdrive vs pawl system. Here's the I9 with 2 sets of 3 offset pawls, which gives you 6 points of contact when the hub engages.

    i9 vs Cris King-i9.jpg

    Here you have the CK drive rings which has all 72pts contact each other when the hub engages.

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    That's more important than anything else to me when you get into the realm of high engagement hubs.

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    ^^^ This has nothing to do with servicing the bearings.

    The Enduro bearings are fully serviceable and if you maintain them properly, they will last a very long time.

    The pawl system vs the ringdrive have nothing to do with servicing the bearings, they are just different drive systems.

    And, you don't need any special tools to service them either.
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    Obviously that has nothing to do with bearings and that part of my post wasn't directed at you -- just elaborating on my original post for the I9 vs CK thread which we're in.

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    There is no argument that both CK's and I-9's are high-end, high quality hubs. Each has their pros and cons.

    I do own two I-9 wheelsets and I do not own any CK's, but I regularly highly maintain them for two close friends. The CK's are the typical high-flange, ISO hubs.

    CK's manufacture their own bearings and they are of undisputed quality with no comprises. However, I have owned my fair share of bearing pre-load required components over the years and after many tens of thousands of trail and road miles and a dozen or more high-end bikes that I maintain to the highest levels, I fail to to see any significant advantages to this system of pre-load bearing management. "Bearing play" is an issue that I have only experienced on angular contact styled bearings and never on radial bearings that were maintained appropriately.

    High quality, radial cartridge bearings will provide a long service life when maintained appropriately and outlive most common users. My 1st I-9's now have just under 7000 miles on the original bearings and are continuing to perform admirably. No exceptions necessary.
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    And if you ever have an issue, both companies provide some of the best customer service offered in the industry.

    Living a few hours from i9, I've had my fair share of experience with them over the years. I have friends who ride them, which I've done repairs on before(the original hubs) and just about half of the people on group rides also ride them. I also have a pair of i9 torch hubs on one of my bikes, but did stay away from them until they got their issues under control. I think both companies track records over the last several years speak for themselves. Both hubs are clearly high end and do have their pros/cons, but from a mechanical standpoint I'll give the slight edge to the CK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by evan.c View Post
    what do you prefer?
    Both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianU View Post
    I have been running a set of Chris Kings the last 4 years, that I had bought used. Similar maintenance time frame as what you stated and they have been trouble free. I actually bought the CK tool set last year and while the price was hard to swallow, it sure makes quick work of completely overhauling the rear hub.

    If you don't mind me asking, what free upgrades have you received when returning your hubs for service and do they still warranty certain parts on hubs older than five years?
    If I recall correctly a few years back they gave me a brand new splined drive shell (I think that's what it might be called) - the part where a traditional splined cassette interfaces with. That got chewed up after well over 10 years of riding. When I sent in the hub for a full rebuild, they just replaced it. Not sure if that is common practice, but I didn't look the gift horse in the mouth.

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    ^^^ While this type of customer treatment can't be expected, it's certainly nice to find it's not entirely uncommon when the suitable need arises with high-end components.
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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    ^^^ While this type of customer treatment can't be expected, it's certainly nice to find it's not entirely uncommon when the suitable need arises with high-end components.
    True, but this is also the company that blamed their flawed headset issues on the customers and told them it was their fault that they were chewing through steerers and constantly loosening. Then, when the patent expired on the compression-ring, they offered it as a "upgrade" and made people pay for it. There are a couple other similar issues with their hubs and some other parts through the years, but this one episode was pretty bad. They basically couldn't admit that their design was poor and causing problems. I have problems dealing with a company that can't admit they screw up.

    I think the engagement for high-torque situations of CK can be worth it, but now you have another option, Onyx, and for most applications, I prefer the far simpler DT, which is similar to CK, just more "one-dimensional". It's also stupid-easy to replace if you strip it out and allows for a lightweight build. Nothing is without some fault though, so you weight the options and decide what best meets your criteria. I think over the years, much of the "bling" factor was weighing more heavily in people's minds than the real advantages or disadvantages of something like CK.
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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    If I recall correctly a few years back they gave me a brand new splined drive shell (I think that's what it might be called) - the part where a traditional splined cassette interfaces with. That got chewed up after well over 10 years of riding. When I sent in the hub for a full rebuild, they just replaced it. Not sure if that is common practice, but I didn't look the gift horse in the mouth.
    They definitely hooked you up with replacing that drive shell. It is not a cheap part to replace.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    True, but this is also the company that blamed their flawed headset issues on the customers and told them it was their fault that they were chewing through steerers and constantly loosening. Then, when the patent expired on the compression-ring, they offered it as a "upgrade" and made people pay for it. There are a couple other similar issues with their hubs and some other parts through the years, but this one episode was pretty bad. They basically couldn't admit that their design was poor and causing problems. I have problems dealing with a company that can't admit they screw up.
    Are you referring to Chris King? If so, is the first I've heard of it and I'd like to know more. My first CK headset is from '97 or '98. Its still in use, I've never had issues, and I am unaware of this upgrade.

    Thanks.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingemtbr View Post
    Are you referring to Chris King? If so, is the first I've heard of it and I'd like to know more. My first CK headset is from '97 or '98. Its still in use, I've never had issues, and I am unaware of this upgrade.

    Thanks.
    Yeah, they lacked a proper compression ring, and relied on a rubber O-ring/gasket to prevent movement at the steertube - headset interface. I first noticed it many years ago when I was riding rigid SS. Excessive amounts of yanking and banging on that interface resulted in slight loosening and creaking. King came out with a proper compression ring upgrade when Cane Creek's patent on that setup expired - or something like that.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Yeah, they lacked a proper compression ring, and relied on a rubber O-ring/gasket to prevent movement at the steertube - headset interface. I first noticed it many years ago when I was riding rigid SS. Excessive amounts of yanking and banging on that interface resulted in slight loosening and creaking. King came out with a proper compression ring upgrade when Cane Creek's patent on that setup expired - or something like that.
    Ah yes, GripLock. I found their release announcement and it's pretty funny. They're trying to talk down about every other compression ring design not holding up well enough to modern biking and coming out of adjustment while never admitting that their existing design had been worse than all the others.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by boomn View Post
    Ah yes, GripLock. I found their release announcement and it's pretty funny. They're trying to talk down about every other compression ring design not holding up well enough to modern biking and coming out of adjustment while never admitting that their existing design had been worse than all the others.
    Yeah, bad on them....

    But, I still back King in a major way. My last 3 bikes have had funky creaks coming from the headsets. I'd cycled 4 new Cane Creek Forty headsets through without success. I bit the bullet and ponied up the big cash for a King on my latest ride. Creak is totally gone. CC is still a good company and I dig their coil shocks, but for headsets, I'm going with King.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    Yeah, bad on them....

    But, I still back King in a major way. My last 3 bikes have had funky creaks coming from the headsets. I'd cycled 4 new Cane Creek Forty headsets through without success. I bit the bullet and ponied up the big cash for a King on my latest ride. Creak is totally gone. CC is still a good company and I dig their coil shocks, but for headsets, I'm going with King.
    Your experience is the opposite of mine, i'd just get the cheapest FSA/CC cartridge headsets and forget they existed. Then i splurged and got a CK and after a year of use it was unusable, so i went back to cheapo FSA/CC. I have a small stack of good headsets that fit broken frames.

    I remember at one point reading that CK was paying to use the CC patent, but went with their own compression doohickey anyway.

    I've never owned their hubs. I've serviced them, and they're really nice, but their hubris with novel ways of preloading headset bearings puts me off them.




    Honestly with hubs, i don't understand how the dt350 hasn't killed the gucci hub market. Maybe they're just too boring.
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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    Your experience is the opposite of mine, i'd just get the cheapest FSA/CC cartridge headsets and forget they existed. Then i splurged and got a CK and after a year of use it was unusable, so i went back to cheapo FSA/CC. I have a small stack of good headsets that fit broken frames.

    I remember at one point reading that CK was paying to use the CC patent, but went with their own compression doohickey anyway.

    I've never owned their hubs. I've serviced them, and they're really nice, but their hubris with novel ways of preloading headset bearings puts me off them.




    Honestly with hubs, i don't understand how the dt350 hasn't killed the gucci hub market. Maybe they're just too boring.
    Yeah, two recent bikes, including my DH rig lived with "house brand" headsets that were silent and lived a long happy life.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckha62 View Post
    Agreed. I love my Kings, but I've never owned i9s. I do know that my Kings have been trouble free and I love the "angry bees" sound.
    Same for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by LarryFahn View Post
    Hadley hubs. Made in the USA, 72 points of Engagement, and they handled me when I was weighing 320 lb with no issues. my weight fluctuates quite a bit cuz I'm now down 85 lb. I've also use DT Swiss on my downhill bike and really like them, but it's okay for a DH bike. both jobs are bomb-proof but if you're talkin peddling and writing technical Trails wear engagement important I would take a Hadley over any of the other hubs mentioned any day.
    I also put a Hadley on my Fat Bike this year... liking it so far 👍

    i9 vs Cris King-727a8184-e8aa-43f2-9bd7-07133902f7b1.jpg
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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    Honestly with hubs, i don't understand how the dt350 hasn't killed the gucci hub market. Maybe they're just too boring.
    When it comes to dedicated cyclists in general, how many of us are not guilty of wanting something for the "gucci" or as we usually call it, "bling" factor. I have both CK and DT 350 hubs. Consider both great hubs. Appreciate the simplicity of the DT 350s, but I really like the "Made in the USA", precision, functional art aspect of the CKs.

    I will say that I have wondered if DT Swiss were to combine the price and appearance options of Hope hubs, with their basic DT Swiss ratchet internal design, how that would impact companies such as I9 and CK.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisgah View Post
    I'm not sure about I9s, but CK angular contact bearings are a real plus. In fact, angular contact anything is a real plus. I wish FS bike pivots were equipped with them.
    The friction facts guys did a test on cartridge non-angular with cartridge angular. There was no measurable difference.

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