• 04-23-2012
    Vader
    I once ran out of water in 108* breezeless heat and had to ditch my bike (it sat for a week), hiking down a steep, dry waterfall through poison oak and nettle four miles back to the highway where I collapsed.

    Once I stopped sweating, my thought process broke down to the point of confusion, but I knew I had to keep from panicking. At one point, I was pondering where to stash my body for recovery. Out in the open, where it would easily be seen from the air, or stash it under a rock so the critters wouldn't drag it to where it couldn't be located. At the time, I'd been riding for over 20 years; mostly solo, and absolutly no one knew remotely where I was.

    I started the ride cocky, confident and sure of my skills.
  • 04-24-2012
    zazzafrazz
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Vader View Post
    I once ran out of water in 108* breezeless heat and had to ditch my bike (it sat for a week), hiking down a steep, dry waterfall through poison oak and nettle four miles back to the highway where I collapsed.

    Once I stopped sweating, my thought process broke down to the point of confusion, but I knew I had to keep from panicking. At one point, I was pondering where to stash my body for recovery. Out in the open, where it would easily be seen from the air, or stash it under a rock so the critters wouldn't drag it to where it couldn't be located. At the time, I'd been riding for over 20 years; mostly solo, and absolutly no one knew remotely where I was.

    I started the ride cocky, confident and sure of my skills.

    ¬-- WOW ! just reading this makes me feel sick... what a nasty bit you went through. just curious if you live in the desert southwest ?
  • 04-24-2012
    Vader
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by zazzafrazz View Post
    ¬-- WOW ! just reading this makes me feel sick... what a nasty bit you went through. just curious if you live in the desert southwest ?

    I live in the Mojave Desert, and heat really doesn't effect me. I ride Sedona around the 4th of July to avoid the crowds for example, and ride all day.

    This happened in the Southern Sierra near Kernville. For those familiar with the area, I rode from Goldledge Campground to Sherman Pass, to Rincon Trail, and bailed down Packsaddle Canyon. All because I couldn't find someone to do Cannell with and it's advised not to do that trail alone.

    A week after this, my girlfriend and I drove up to retrieve the bike. We parked the car at 5:30 AM and hiked up the dry waterfall/canyon. I had triangulated the location of my bike before ditching it, or so I had thought. It took an hour to locate the bike and I almost abandoned the search before I saw a silver flash from the polished rear triangle. In my confusion the week before I realized I had done around five triangulations. On the way back down, I pointed out a recess in the cliffside to my girlfriend and told her that's one of the spots where I thought of stashing my body. She replied that she was thinking of doing that exact same thing right about then. She was pi$$ed, and not because of the morning hike. When we got back to the car around 9:00AM it was already 100*.
  • 04-24-2012
    zazzafrazz
    ^^^ ha ha ! that's funny "... girlfriend stashing your body..." Geez 100+ at 9am . ick.
    North Sierra gets hot too but prolly not like down Kern way.
  • 04-24-2012
    j.rioux
    You need too watch out for heart exhaustion now that you have it your body is usefully more prone to our. Thank God, your ok .
  • 04-24-2012
    zazzafrazz
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by j.rioux View Post
    You need too watch out for heart exhaustion now that you have it your body is usefully more prone to our. Thank God, your ok .

    yep that was about to turn deadly. my t tolerance is waaay down ever since my heat e

    exhaustion episode. i am super high maintenance when it comes to temps over 70/75.
  • 04-24-2012
    j.rioux
    I thank the Lord have never had it. However, I know a few people who have. It takes upwards of 6months take year to heal up.
  • 04-25-2012
    118R3volution
    awesome post
  • 04-25-2012
    Bethany1
    Just wanted to say thanks for the warning signs. Yesterday it was 85 and a nice breeze when I started my ride. I filled up my Hydrapack (fits 3 liters?) since I knew it was hot and filled my water bottle with Gatorade. I stopped off at the gas station, picked up another gatorade, Twinkies and a beef jerky stick.

    I was surprised at how fast you can run out of energy while just doing a simple trail at 10 mph. That was the scary part. The heat really takes it toll physically and emotionally. The Twinkies were actually a wonderful addition when I realized it wasn't just water I needed. I made it back to the car, but I know I was starting to deal with heat exhaustion 3/4 of the way home. If I hadn't turned around when I did, I would have been a lot worse off.

    I don't think anyone plans to not take the heat seriously, you just don't think it will happen to you. Or you don't realize how fast it can set in.

    I sat in the air conditioned car talking to my brother, finished off the other gatorade and came home.
  • 04-26-2012
    puls4521
    Great post! Thanks for the info!
  • 04-30-2012
    big terry
    i had heat stroke as a kid and have never been able to tolerate the heat since. having had it makes one more susceptible in the future as well.

    i aint shy about drinking water, nor about taking breaks. my buddies can go do another lap for all i care, im gonna chill until i feel right again. had a couple bouts of heat exhaustion when i was a framing carpenter, back in my 20s, and it took days to recover. i never want to experience that again.
  • 05-02-2012
    WGuitarist
    Had heat stroke one time, was on an island called Pelee island in Ontario. didn't bring enough water and ran out half way through the ride, got back and couldn't keep anything down. Had to go to the hospital. ALWAYS bring enough water now, with the water bottles and the 1.5L water backpack I have. Great thread, good to educate people.
  • 05-03-2012
    Mason8or
    diddnt kno that
  • 05-03-2012
    Joey Graef
    I totally agree- I had all those symptoms on my first ride Monday!!!!
  • 05-03-2012
    CGraef
    Heat stroke
    Thanks for the reminder,I'm starting to ride this year after 10 yrs off,I am 51 yrs old and a little nervous! I still like to compete
  • 05-03-2012
    guitarjohn21
    Great Topic. After reading this I'm thinking of carrying some powdered Gatorade in my pack to add to a water bottle in case it's needed. I try to drink at least 20oz per/hr while riding on a mild day and probably double that when it's over 100° outside. I recently discovered that Coconut Water, Raisins, Peanuts, and Dried Apricots are all good sources of Potassium to prevent heat cramps and muscle cramps while on a long ride. A little more practical to bring along than bananas or milk.
  • 05-06-2012
    ranger31989
    Great post....Riding in texas for the next few months is gonna be rough, thank god for shade
  • 05-06-2012
    eijda
    just drink a lot of water
  • 05-22-2012
    rockerc
    I was out Saturday morning on one of my long solo rides up in the Tortolitas near my home here, and about 10 am as I was climbing up the Wild Mustang trail about 3 hours into my ride, I came upon a group of hikers on their way down. There was an older couple who looked like they had the hiking gear, and 3 younger people with them. The temp was around 90 degrees, not too hot for Tucson. I chatted with them for a few minutes, and they asked me the quickest way back to the TH down by the Ritz resort, as they were a little out of their way. I told them the quickest way back, and as I spend a lot of time up there, I am sure my directions were as exhaustive as possible. It was not difficult to find the way back, there are plenty of signs, and it should only have taken them about 90 mins to get back to the TH. They were chatty and cheerful, no sign of any distress.
    I left them and continued up the trail, and about 20 mins later when I got to the top of the climb, I thought that the younger people with them did not look very well prepared for that hike. They were not carrying much with them. I toyed with the idea of going back down to give them some of my water, but then thought that the older couple with them did have packs and bottles, so I carried on back home.
    Next morning I saw this:

    Woman dies while hiking Tortolita Mountains : Welcome to StarNet - Tucson, Arizona

    These were the people I had met. My gut did a few backflips, and I couldn't help but wonder if I could have been more helpful, if my directions had contributed to their tragedy, or if the small amount of water I might have been able to give them would have helped in any way. I have no way of knowing this, and as a friend pointed out, I may have helped avert a worse tragedy... All I can do is know that we all need to be very mindful of this killer condition, know how to recognise the signs, and be super-vigilant with yourself, your immediate companions, and anyone else you come across who you have any concern for. I always carry at least 200 oz of water on any longer, 3 hours or more, ride, and always have it in more than one container in case of rupture. I carry my own trail mix made with dates, raisins, mixed nuts etc and some powdered electrolyte for emergency. I am also going to start carrying some of those cool packs that can be started in an emergency too.
    Just yesterday I saw that a German tourist had died in the Tucson Mountain Park the very next day on a hike. 2 in 2 days, and it is not even that hot here yet.

    Be careful out there!!!
  • 05-22-2012
    Zero Signal
    Force down a liter an hour with electrolytes.

    Bring a heart rate monitor. Dehydration will manifest itself as an unusually high heart rate during a ride. I will get the elevated heart rate about an hour before cramps and before reduced cognitive ability, so this is a good early sign. When I say elevated, I mean it will be pushing 20 bpm more than normal for a given exertion level. When I see this happen, it's followed by cramps, then physical exhaustion and diminished mental sharpness.

    Plan all rides around water sources. I carry up to 5L of water and if I will be out longer, I will make sure my route takes me past water sources (camp grounds, gas stations, back to the car, water tanks, friend's houses etc.). The best sources are spigots where you can run your head under the water.

    Just don't ride in heat over 100°, it's just not worth it. Period.

    Last Saturday we road over the mountains in Tucson. We had a slow member in the group and the grueling ride (20 miles and 5300' of slow climbing jeep trails) was over his limit. We only planned for 4 hours, but waiting for him to catch up cost us too much water. There were stream crossings with running water to cool us off, but it still took twice as long as expected and it was about 100° out when we finished. Very dangerous, especially since heat stroke can kill you the next day out of nowhere. Know your abilities and limitations.

    Trust that the members of your group won't get you into trouble.
  • 05-22-2012
    zazzafrazz
    thx. great points.
  • 05-23-2012
    bikonator
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GotoDengo View Post
    Good points. Scary part is a lot of the "sudden onset" symptoms might be hard to recognize when riding.

    Rapid pulse -- if you're riding pretty hard it's arleady up
    You stop sweating -- I'm such a sweathog and my shirt and bandana would already be soaked enough that I'm not sure I would notice.
    Disorientation -- I tend to get disoriented whenever I'm on an unmarked trail anyway :p
    Difficult breathing -- I guess there's a difference in heavy breathing vs. difficult breathing
    High body temperature -- Probably hard to tell if you're riding hard on a hot day as well.

    I usually don't ride whenever it's over 95, and my typical rides are pretty short (<2hrs) and mostly in the shade. I'm jealous of you AZ riders who mostly enjoy dry heat... that helps a lot as well. 85 or 95, it's tough to sweat in the muggy SE summers.

    Humidity is better then dry heat
  • 05-23-2012
    AZ
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bikonator View Post
    Humidity is better then dry heat




    High humidity inhibits the bodies ability to cool itself through evaporation of sweat. So dry heat is truly better, at least in terms of staying cool.
  • 05-25-2012
    osmarandsara
    Hikers
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    I was out Saturday morning on one of my long solo rides up in the Tortolitas ..... Just yesterday I saw that a German tourist had died in the Tucson Mountain Park the very next day on a hike. 2 in 2 days, and it is not even that hot here yet.
    Be careful out there!!!

    Unless the hikers explicitly told you "hey, we are in trouble over here" how were you supposed to know one of them was in real bad shape.???...What sucks about that story in the Tortolitas is that the Aunt and Uncle (who were locals) should have made sure everyone in their group was prepared for the conditions....

    People just need to give the desert the respect it deserves.....I've backpacked for days at a time in the Grand Canyon in 110 degree heat and came back alive........folks need to have respect for the harsh desert environment and prepare adequately for the conditions,
  • 05-26-2012
    bignick73
    I've come close twice while living in the southeast. The dry climate is much better your sweat actually works here rather than just pool up and not evaporate.
    Signs for me were getting dizzy, really weak, then seeing stars, then vomiting. Both happened while doing yard work. The second time I almost didn't make it into the house, feels like my blood pressure drops out. Climbed in the shower clothes and all and opened it up on cold, might not be the best idea, so I've been told but worked twice for me. I was drinking plenty of water both times but in some climates it's not enough. I find soaking my shirt with a cold bottle of water does more good than anything else in certain situations.
  • 05-28-2012
    InTandem
    Heatstroke recon!
    Such an important post - managed to get minor sunstroke yday!
  • 05-28-2012
    pfs8b
    Is Gatorade better than water for avoiding heat stroke?
  • 05-28-2012
    AZ
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pfs8b View Post
    Is Gatorade better than water for avoiding heat stroke?





    Nothing beats plain ole water imo.
  • 05-28-2012
    Hutch3637
    Don’t get the silver bullet, be intelligent, drink water and hydrate.
  • 05-28-2012
    bignick73
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pfs8b View Post
    Is Gatorade better than water for avoiding heat stroke?

    No. Nothing but gatorade will hurt you. I always do 1 gatorade type drink or electrolyte pill to about 4-5 bottles of water of the same size. Electrolytes are nothing more than salt and potassium. Too much is just as bad as not enough. You can probably do a Google and get all the scientific stuff on the proper ratios. But 1:4 was the basic ratio they told us when I was a roustabout offshore.

    We got a lot of education on it out there usually had several medical flights for it every summer. The other thing to remember besides staying hydrated is to keep your body temperature down. You can hydrate well and still have heat exhaustion/stroke. Know the signs and cool off quick if you notice them.


    Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk 2
  • 05-28-2012
    June Bug
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Yep, it's the dead of summer here in AZ. As in the story above, planning to come to Phoenix, Moab or Sedona or any other similar destination to ride on a vacation at this time of year is questionable. The lack of shade and abundance of rock reflects a lot of radiation back at you, and it ends up feeling a lot hotter than it is (even if it's already over 100°!). A camelback or a few waterbottles is usually NOT going to cut it, especially when help is not near. You can ride in the morning time, but you have to be ultra-careful to not be caught out there with the rising temps and diminishing water supply. Most people are NOT ready for what this heat and environment actually means and requires. Many of us go to higher ground and ride at times and distances we know will be bearable, not to maximize our riding experience or do new things necessarily. If you are planning to go to one of these places to ride in the dead of summer, look into the local boards and do a lot of research first.

    Please pay attention to this post, y'all. If you are not used to it, there is nothing that can prepare you for this brutal heat with humidity so low it might as well be (and probably is) sucking moisture from your body.

    I took a first aid class, and the instructor pointed out that if you give water to someone who is in the heat exhaustion stage, they can drink and process it. If they are in the heat stroke phase, they will vomit it right back up.

    Hammer Nutrition has some good information here on how to start thinking about hydration and electrolytes. It isn't as simple as drinking a lot of water. Of course, they think their electrolyte product is best, but if you don't agree, buy something else. Just be informed on how electrolytes and re-hydrating works.

    There is a lot of debate on dietary salt and electrolyte balance; the debate rates on.
  • 06-02-2012
    shawnt2012
    Just had heat stroke last weekend, Was out for a ride, just a quick one.. But that is all it took, came home laid down, When I woke up I ran right to the bathroom and well, You all can guess, I ended up blacking out and smashing my head off the floor.
  • 06-03-2012
    AZ
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by shawnt2012 View Post
    Just had heat stroke last weekend, Was out for a ride, just a quick one.. But that is all it took, came home laid down, When I woke up I ran right to the bathroom and well, You all can guess, I ended up blacking out and smashing my head off the floor.




    Here's to a full and speedy recovery. What was your take away from this experience?
  • 06-03-2012
    heyyall
    At my recent Tour de Cure event, Chris Carmichael was an invited guest and he spoke a little on hydration. His belief was that water alone was not enough. Many of the energy products contain sodium, so that helps, but he suggested getting sports drinks that contain sodium citrate and a small amount of carbohydrates other than sucrose. He wasn't fond of gatorade because of the sucrose, but he didn't bash them or anything like that.

    Now, I'm a long term gatorade user, but he suggested several brands that he considered good drinks. I wanted to take a few powered drink mixes within me on the 7 hour ride to have in case the aid stations ran out of drink mixes. The only one I could buy late at night was Gu Energy Brew (it's nice that Sports Authority stores are open late). I had two bottles on the ride (refilled often, by the way). One with gatorade, one with Gu energy brew. I can honestly say that the Gu was drinkable whereas it was hard to drink a bottle of gatorade. The sweetness of gatorade was too much in the heat. The Gu drink, on the other hand, seemed to go down so much better and in the end I found I would drink a bottle of the Gu much faster by more frequent drinking (which is a good thing, by the way).

    Chris also gave a simple tip to see if you are getting enough fluids during a ride. Weigh yourself before and after. The difference in weight is the fluid loss. He said for every 2% loss in fluid, you have a 10% loss in performance. Sure, you might look a bit odd pulling a scale out and weighing yourself at the trailhead, but until you figure your hydration habits out, it could honestly save your life.

    Chris's motto was drink early, drink often. This is great, sensible advice. To make this happen in practice, you need something you want to drink early and drink often. Nasty water bottle taste, overly sweet beverages, etc. slow my drinking. They key is to find something that works for you.
  • 06-07-2012
    PatGear
    Past Experience
    Had a heat exhaustion experience running track a few years back–you feel cold before you feel hot.
  • 06-11-2012
    JustAnotherDude
    wow...got to watch that stuff...
  • 06-11-2012
    DJ_JonDoe
    awesome post!!
  • 06-12-2012
    trmn8er
    I posted in this thread almost a year ago, and 50 pounds ago. I got super sick from the Heat, and I am used to it in that I live in a hot area. My take; water alone for rides up to an hour. After that, an electrolyte type drink to be sipped in addition to occasional water. Do both. Many of these sports drinks are loaded with properties that will cause you to spike your blood sugar, and this too is not a good thing.

    Hydrate BEFORE the ride too. Hours before, not 2 minutes before you leave. Drink a cup or so right before, but not too much. Once riding, sip water early and often. Do not wait until you are thirsty, as this can be too late. I use a Hydration pack here in Southern California as we get countless days of high heat in this area. Remember to take a break once in a while. Try to find shade. Listen to your body. If you are getting light headed, headaches, nausea, or stop sweating, these are all possible signs of overheating. I also try to eat a snack at least once per hour on longer rides. I just rode 27 miles of Cannell Trail, and felt amazing afterwards. I had 6 liters of fluids with me, but only used 4. When going on rides in back-country, take extra water as you never know if you will have something bad happen. I would rather have a heavy pack than run out of safe water. A year ago, this same ride in the mountains almost killed me. Just my 2 cents...
  • 06-14-2012
    KungPow
    Is clear pee before riding a good indication that you are hydrated?
  • 06-15-2012
    AZ
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by KungPow View Post
    Is clear pee before riding a good indication that you are hydrated?




    Yes, it is. It does not mean that you are fully hydrated however. You honestly should be hydrating all day every day.
  • 06-16-2012
    el nico
    If anyone is interested the medical defintions are
    HEAT STRESS: decreased performance due to hot weather
    HEAT EXHAUSTION:, body temp 38-40 C, and symptoms like vomiting, collapse, thirst, confusion: Immediately stop, cool down , drink fluids
    HEAT STROKE: Body temp>40C and neurological dysfuction. High mortality, (12%) 1/3 have permanent brain damage. Needs active cooling.A true emergency.

    Moral is recognize early signs and stop/cool down before things get out of control.
    Interestingly we adapt to heat differently depending on our level of protective "heat shock proteins"
    You can increase their levels by acclimatizing to heat (1-4 hrs exercise/day for 3-4 days).

    I'm an emergency specialist with an interest in this stuff, hope it helps
  • 06-16-2012
    supersingle
    Thank you whoever started this thread it has so much wonderful information.I remember the first time i got a heatstroke, i was coming back from school on my bike (it was a 20 minutes ride).I don't remember the temperature but it would have been atleast 90F.Reached home, grabbed a cold glass of water and baam i blacked out and fell to the ground.Being hydrated and taking breaks is the key i think.
  • 06-18-2012
    nephets0
    thanks for this thread guys!

    i was in mexico once, helping build a roof for a church, stroked out due to heat... a 2x4 swinging for your head or your head meeting one are roughly one and the same haha... ice baths for me for a few hrs that day... made it out luckily
  • 06-19-2012
    nyckylim
    thanks for the tip :)
  • 06-19-2012
    adonis_abril
    Great info :)
  • 06-23-2012
    tjkm
    Close call today here in the AZ desert. I drank an electrolyte mix on the way to the TH and took two bottles with me + two gels. I felt great until about mile 20 and then started to get worried a bit later about not having enough to get back to the car. I was riding in a more remote part of the park and had not seen anyone in a while. I had almost 6 miles to go and really just a few sips until I was totally out.

    I balanced then need to keep my HR down with my need to keep moving forward. Toward the end I walked some of the hills and coasted the downhill. I got back to car without incident but was reminded of the importance of being properly prepared for summer riding here. It turned into a mental exercise to just keep going as my mind racing about the 'what if's"

    I rode 30 miles total and in hind site, should have cut it short as I started 40 minutes later then I planned last night. I will bring a 3rd bottle for this ride again or break out the camelback, which I have grown to not like riding with.

    I never stopped sweating, had too high of a HR or any of the symptoms of a heat emergency, but I was getting close. My fall back was to piss in the empty bottle and sip it on the way out. Gross, but I would have done it if it came down to it.

    Got away with one today, I will be better prepared next time.
  • 06-24-2012
    JakFrost
    I wear a 100oz HydroPack and fill it up to 50oz to do my 8-mile each way ride to work and back, taking sips every 2-3 minutes on the ride. I drink up pretty much 40-45oz when I'm back home every time, whether it is 75, 85, 95, or 105-degree weather.

    No issues so far with heat exhaustion or stroke because I've learned from other people's bad mistakes here while being outside and seen them sit down, then lay down, and finally pass out.

    Hydration is not a joke, I always remind all the youngin's whenever I supervise Airsoft events. If you aren't shooting you should be drinking!
  • 06-25-2012
    simplyclimb
    Very helpful! Thanks!
  • 06-25-2012
    June Bug
    Please also add this word to the hydration vocabulary: Hyponatremia (water intoxication)
    Hyponatremia is a condition that occurs when the level of sodium in your blood is abnormally low.
    Sodium is an electrolyte, and it helps regulate the amount of water that's in and around your cells. In hyponatremia, one or more factors — ranging from an underlying medical condition to drinking too much water during endurance sports — causes the sodium in your body to become diluted. When this happens, your body's water levels rise, and your cells begin to swell.


    A 30-year-old, ultra fit guy died of this condition a few weeks ago during the Texas Water Safari.

    Here is some info from the Hammer Nutrition web site on a section called The Top 10 -Biggest Mistakes Endurance Athletes Make. # 1 is Excess Hydration.
    ...The principle of avoiding both too much and too little especially applies to hydration, where serious consequences occur from either mistake. If you don't drink enough, you'll suffer from unpleasant and performance-ruining dehydration. Drink too much, however, and you'll not only end up with impaired athletic performance, you may even be flirting with potentially life threatening water intoxication.....

    Their recommendation is:
    ... that most athletes do very well under most conditions with a fluid intake of 20-25 ounces per hour. Sometimes you may not need that much fluid,16-18 ounces per hour may be quite acceptable. Sometimes you might need somewhat more, perhaps up to 28 ounces hourly. Our position, however, is that the risk of dilutional hyponatremia increases substantially when an athlete repeatedly consumes more than 30 fluid ounces per hour. If more fluid intake is necessary (under very hot conditions, for example) proceed cautiously and remember to increase electrolyte intake as well to match your increased fluid intake. You can easily accomplish this by consuming a few additional (their electrolyte) capsules, or adding more scoops of (their electrolyte) Powder or (their electrolyte) fizzy tablets to your water/fuel bottle(s).

    Not trying to push Hammer, although I think their stuff is well thought out with science behind it; the point is to get your electrolytes in when you are out there sweating like a hog in a sauna and sucking down the water: Hammer, Nuuns tablets, E Caps, Accelerade or whatever for electrolytes.

    By the way,
    1 measuring cup of water = 8 fluid oz.
    4 cups in a quart = 32 fluid oz.

    Think about it: Yes, you are an endurance athlete.....
    Be safe and have fun...
  • 06-25-2012
    shawnt2012
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Here's to a full and speedy recovery. What was your take away from this experience?

    Even just a 15min bike ride can lay ya up for 3 days in high heat!:madmax::nono: