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  1. #1
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    Grouch - 8spd, v-brake modern full suspension?

    I've found 8 spd stuff to be the most durable. I hate my Avid Juicy's that rub, yeah they stop great, until they f(&%ing boil on epic descents - then you s$*@# your pants) and just want the simplicity of v-brakes. Does anyone make a modern full suspension for xc riding with 8 spd and v-brakes?

    thx

  2. #2
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    Most manufacturers are pushing 9 and 10 spd stuff, so you may be out of luck unless you pick up some older shifters, chain and cassette. These can still be found, but are becoming harder to find. They should fit just about any frame. I am still using 8 spd, but finding it more and more difficult to find replacement parts.

    For brakes, what about Avid BB-7's? They stop well and don't boil, don't require bleeding, and they bolt right up where your Juicy's came off.

  3. #3
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    I don't think anybody has made a FS frame with canti studs in over 5 years. Get something used or get with the program.

  4. #4
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    I finally got with the program myself this year and switched from v's to avid mechanicals and I've been really happy with them and I don't see myself ever going back.

    As for 8-speed, there's no reason it won't work on new FS bikes, but the trick will be finding parts.
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  5. #5
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    Lower end Shimano Alivio has all the 8 speed parts you could ever want.
    My Bike: '15 Trek FX 7.2
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  6. #6
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    I definitely agree with you on 8 speed reliability. V-brakes are awesome too.. I love the weight savings and cleaner looks.

    But if you're a true retro grouch, I think it's more about hardtails or even rigid bikes...

    I say try to find some retro Amp Research or something similar.

  7. #7
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    V-brakes are awesome too.. I love the weight savings and cleaner looks.
    Magura makes a disc brake set that is lighter than a set of V-brakes.
    My Bike: '15 Trek FX 7.2
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  8. #8
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    So, what would be a well designed FS bike from 5 years ago?, in order to get the v-brake bosses?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarboy View Post
    So, what would be a well designed FS bike from 5 years ago?, in order to get the v-brake bosses?
    My wife likes her Santa Cruz Superlight from a few years back. It has v-brake studs.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarboy View Post
    ...I hate my Avid Juicy's...
    Switch to BB7s, you'll be glad you did. Learn to service 9 speeds stuff and replace components as need.

    Or just switch to SS/IGH hardtail 29er with BB7s. There are good reasons why it's a popular bike, you seem to have discovered most of them. Best part of a HT 29er SS is no rattles, no service, just ride.

  11. #11
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    Love the idea of SS, but it's damn hilly here & my joints are getting old. Like 3-5 hour climb hilly. SS would be pleasant on about 20% of the trails around... Not sure I want to give up the plushness of FS, I'll have to try some more rides on a 29er.

  12. #12
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    How would the Superlight compare in ride with my FSR? - thx

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarboy View Post
    Love the idea of SS, but it's damn hilly here & my joints are getting old. Like 3-5 hour climb hilly....
    Alfine 8

  14. #14
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    My yukon is an 8 speed, but it has discs.
    2010 Giant Yukon FX
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197 View Post
    Magura makes a disc brake set that is lighter than a set of V-brakes.
    That's a pretty broad statement, and totally wrong. I assume you're talking about the Magura MT8 which weighs 380g with a rotor, for just one brake. There are a hell of a lot of v-brake models that are <400g for both front and rear.

    Rim wheels are also lighter than disc-specific wheels in the weightweenie category.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    Switch to BB7s, you'll be glad you did. Learn to service 9 speeds stuff and replace components as need.

    Or just switch to SS/IGH hardtail 29er with BB7s. There are good reasons why it's a popular bike, you seem to have discovered most of them. Best part of a HT 29er SS is no rattles, no service, just ride.
    My SL is 9 speed with BB7s. Got no complaints.

    IIRC when Shimano 9sp first came out there were some issues, but that was for the first year. Once set up, I've had no problems. I don't miss 8sp.

  17. #17
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    That's a pretty broad statement, and totally wrong. I assume you're talking about the Magura MT8 which weighs 380g with a rotor, for just one brake. There are a hell of a lot of v-brake models that are <400g for both front and rear.
    I was talking about the MT2 that weighs in at 245g with rotor.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197 View Post
    I was talking about the MT2 that weighs in at 245g with rotor.
    And you'd still be wrong. The MT2 weighs 335 grams including a rotor:

    MT2 | The Straight Dirt | MountainBike.com

    2012 Magura Brake Weights (Including Rotors):
    MT8: 280 grams; MT6: 310 grams; MT4: 320 grams; MT2: 335 grams



    Looks like their website is way off. I was wrong about the MT8 weight...it's 280 incl rotor. Which is still much heavier than many V-brake systems.

    There are V-brake sets at ~300g for the whole set.

  19. #19
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    And you'd still be wrong. The MT2 weighs 335 grams including a rotor:
    I got my numbers from the Magura website.

    I looked up how much a set of Avid V-brakes weigh. Around 185g. Not much more weight for a disc setup. I have seen some exotic disc setups that weigh less.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197 View Post
    Lower end Shimano Alivio has all the 8 speed parts you could ever want.
    Though 8 speed Alivio is still available, the most recent Alivio line up has gone 9 speed.

    Alivio 9 speed
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197 View Post
    Lower end Shimano Alivio has all the 8 speed parts you could ever want.
    I have an Alivio 2X8 set up on my CX bike and it is spot on. I barely clean it (never perhaps?) and with all the gunk, mud, dirt and whatever, it shifts perfectly. Dirt as lube?

    Don't forget SRAM has 8-speed stuff, too. I have an X-4 shifter and a 1X8 I'm putting on a commuter bike. It was all previously on my Leader 510H (now SS), and the SRAM had zero problems.

    I never really cared for 9-speed - I feel like I had to adjust it all the time to work right.

  22. #22
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    Can you get a new 3spd all drum-brake equipped car?

    An epic descent that would cause disc brake fluid to boil would have killed off V brakes a long time before that. Sounds like there is something wrong with your disc brakes, although disc brakes are relatively simple as far as mechanical layout and operation. I've never found avid quality control to be very good, and about the only thing I think they design really well is grippy fast-wearing brake pads, but still with any recent/decent system there shouldn't be any big problems. Lots of small shops out there though that don't know the first thing about how to bleed brakes, these shops are usually selling tons of low-end stuff usually and fairly easy to spot. They don't have the $$$ to stay on top of these things because they don't do the amount of sales where it benefits them to keep all bleed kids and parts in stock.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197 View Post
    I got my numbers from the Magura website.

    I looked up how much a set of Avid V-brakes weigh. Around 185g. Not much more weight for a disc setup. I have seen some exotic disc setups that weigh less.
    And of course the rim has to weigh more to support the V-brakes.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    And of course the rim has to weigh more to support the V-brakes.
    Not by much. The average high-end disc brake rim weighs ~325-350g. The average high-end rim-brake rim weighs 350g - 375g. Factor in the heavier disc hubs, and V-brakes are still lighter.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197 View Post
    I got my numbers from the Magura website.

    I looked up how much a set of Avid V-brakes weigh. Around 185g. Not much more weight for a disc setup. I have seen some exotic disc setups that weigh less.
    As far as I know, the lightest Disc model available is the FRM DBR250. And it's still much heavier than the lightest V-brake, as well as 5x as expensive.

    This is a losing battle in the discussion of weights. We're not talking performance here, just weight. If you factor in performance, there's no comparison, but then you also have to consider the tremendous difference in price.

  25. #25
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    It would be so much easier to just get a better set of brakes than to find an old FS frame with V-brake mounts. I've had pretty good luck with Formula brakes. But if you insist on V-brakes, just get a Surly Karate Monkey and give up rear suspension. The big wheels will smooth out the trail a llitle bit (but don't believe the hype - it still won't be as plush as FS). Since you obviously aren't very good at working on bikes, not having rear suspension means one less thing to worry about.

  26. #26
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    I switched from 9 to 10 speeds this summer. I've hammered it hard and have no problems. Just get a heavy duty brake set and no worries.

  27. #27
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    I used magura HS33s, which came before V brakes and disc brakes, so they must be better and you should use them.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dion View Post
    I have an Alivio 2X8 set up on my CX bike and it is spot on. I barely clean it (never perhaps?) and with all the gunk, mud, dirt and whatever, it shifts perfectly. Dirt as lube?

    Don't forget SRAM has 8-speed stuff, too. I have an X-4 shifter and a 1X8 I'm putting on a commuter bike. It was all previously on my Leader 510H (now SS), and the SRAM had zero problems.

    I never really cared for 9-speed - I feel like I had to adjust it all the time to work right.
    Yeah, SRAM X-4 is the shiz for 8 speed shifters. Then you can still use any SRAM 9 speeds rd, and then a HG50 8 speed Shimano cassette and a KMC X8.99 (or X8.93) chain, the 9 speed crankset of you choice and you're in business.

    I do agree on the reliability of the 8 speed stuff. And it's inexpensive, work great, looks good and run smooth. I've but a trail bike up this summer using SRAM X-4 shifter, X-7 rd, HG50 11-30 cassette, KMC X8.93 chain and a basic FSA A-Drive crankset and it didn't felt weak at all. I had plenty of fun either commuting or riding singletracks, in the snow, the rain and a bit in the sand. So yes, 8 speed stuff is a great choice money wise for now and will last as long as 9 speed would do. For a fraction of the price.

    But I'd said to look for a GT i-Drive XC or XCR from the 2000 era. Nice XC FS bikes, very well built, have disc and v-brakes compatibility, the i-Drive platform is awesome and they can be had for less then $500 easy by now. I have a 2000 XCR and this thing is sweet as hell. Curretly has still everything stock. Whole LX 9 speed drivetrain going through a full cleaning right now. Will probably upgrade stock V's to BB7 this summer if my brother get the cash (it's his bike now lol).
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB28 View Post
    topless. that's what all mtb girls do. we go ride, get topless, have pillow fights in the woods, scissor, then ride home!

  29. #29
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    Thanks for all of the advice. Some great comments here, although I'm not interested in the "it worked great all summer" stuff, I'm looking for multi-year durability, (not chains, cassettes, cables, pads of course), and the maximum lifetime for drivetrains, one or two extra gears doesn't seem to matter that much. Will have to give an old Superlight and I-drive a try one of these days.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarboy View Post
    Thanks for all of the advice. Some great comments here, although I'm not interested in the "it worked great all summer" stuff, I'm looking for multi-year durability, (not chains, cassettes, cables, pads of course), and the maximum lifetime for drivetrains, one or two extra gears doesn't seem to matter that much. Will have to give an old Superlight and I-drive a try one of these days.
    Well...

    I have the 8sp. Alivio set-up on my CX bike. I have put it through the nastiest, disgusting, fully-emerged-in-mud, gunk, rain, heat... you name it, I've done it. Mountain bike trails, racing, road centuries, creek-crossings... all of that. I never clean my chain nor my drive train, and it shifts effortlessly. Beautifully... going on since April 2010, riding this bike 3-5 times a week.

    This is how I "maintain" my drive train.


  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarboy View Post
    Thanks for all of the advice. Some great comments here, although I'm not interested in the "it worked great all summer" stuff, I'm looking for multi-year durability, (not chains, cassettes, cables, pads of course), and the maximum lifetime for drivetrains, one or two extra gears doesn't seem to matter that much. Will have to give an old Superlight and I-drive a try one of these days.
    Best of 8 speed right now is it cheap price. Not expensive at all and no big buck to replace a part. Get a ride on an i-drive. You'll love it.

    Maximum lifetime of the drivetrain depends primary on your weight and weather condition. If you're pretty light (like me), your chain will take quite a while to stretch out and wear out cogs and chainrings. Then if you always ride in mud, sand or dirty snow, the chain itself will build up grit and rust faster then normal and will wear out your chainrings and cogs faster then if there was not extra dirt to go between the rollers and the tooth. I'd say I'm more concerned about dirt to eat up the tooth rather then chain stretch for me.

    Plus, bad shifting (upshift under power or under load) and chain-cross will wear out your whole drivetrain faster.

    Just get quality parts of the speeds you prefer and you'll be alright.

    But I'll be interested to see a mix of 8 and 10 speeds, using 10 speed cogs spaced with 8 speed spacers, using 8/9 speed rd with 10 speed pulley and chain, plus 10 speed chainrings and a 8/9 speed crank spacing using 8 speed shifters. So you get lightweight drivetrain (10 speed cogs and chainrings are thinner) plus nice dirt clearance due to the 8 speed spacers and narrow cogs, rings and chain.

    Anyone ever tried ? Maybe we would have to custom made the cassette spacers to match with the 10 speed cogs difference in thickness compared to the 8 speed ones. But you get the main idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB28 View Post
    topless. that's what all mtb girls do. we go ride, get topless, have pillow fights in the woods, scissor, then ride home!

  32. #32
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    Dont they make "bolt on" v brake bosses? I swear ive seen some at some point and time.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSlow35th View Post
    Dont they make "bolt on" v brake bosses? I swear ive seen some at some point and time.
    They used to:

    Moots mounts

  34. #34
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    Interesting, seems like with a little inginuity and a machine shop you could make some pretty easily. Might be the best descision for someone who for some reason decides thety "need" v-brakes. I love my discs, and I have low end discs lol.
    2010 Giant Yukon FX
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSlow35th View Post
    Interesting, seems like with a little inginuity and a machine shop you could make some pretty easily. Might be the best descision for someone who for some reason decides thety "need" v-brakes. I love my discs, and I have low end discs lol.
    It would be an option for people looking to run v brakes or cantis and different-sized wheels - like someone who turns a hardtail into a commuter or cross bike and switches from 26" to 29" non-disc wheels. Like turning an older bike into a commuter with 700c wheels, for example.

  36. #36
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    Avid BB7. Enough said. They work great when adjusted correctly and will blow any V-brake I had in the past away. I will never forget coming down the long decent to the finish at the 24 hours of Canaan with a bike with cant's and thinking "my hands are cramped to the bar/brakes...I can't let go" - discs work better. Plus, if you knock your rim out of true they still work. My new ride has hydros and you know what...they really don't stop any better than the BB7s on my rigid SS.
    Last edited by TiGeo; 01-14-2012 at 04:18 AM.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    Avid BB7. Enough said. They work great when adjusted correctly and will blow any V-brake I had in the past away. I will never forget coming down the long decent to the finish at the 24 hours of Canaan and thinking "my hands are cramped to the bar/brakes...I can't let go" - discs work better. Plus, if you knock your rim out of true they still work.
    And they are awesomely awesome !
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB28 View Post
    topless. that's what all mtb girls do. we go ride, get topless, have pillow fights in the woods, scissor, then ride home!

  38. #38
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    Or just get Shimano brakes and not have to screw with them.

    I am far from a Shimano fan boy... except for brakes. Avid Juicy sucks compared to the simplicity of the Shimano hydros.

    BB7 are also awesome. I would take BB7s over any other Avid brake offerings...

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSlow35th View Post
    Dont they make "bolt on" v brake bosses? I swear ive seen some at some point and time.

    Pace RC31 V-Brake Mounting Kit
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  40. #40
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    Wink

    So it's time for de-engineer -re-engineer...

    ... just like disc brake adapters of the past now we need v-brake adapters to allow v-brakes on a disc specific frame!... LOL

    Go with what ever makes ya happy!

    Just make sure ya ride!

  41. #41
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    While I have nothing against disc's

    Quote Originally Posted by solarboy View Post
    I've found 8 spd stuff to be the most durable. I hate my Avid Juicy's that rub, yeah they stop great, until they f(&%ing boil on epic descents - then you s$*@# your pants) and just want the simplicity of v-brakes. Does anyone make a modern full suspension for xc riding with 8 spd and v-brakes?

    thx
    or 9 and 10 spd drive trains I have found 8 spd stuff (waaaay more reliable) and v's to be more to my liking. So when everybody was selling their hand built 29er v brake wheelsets, Sram 9.0, Avid single digit ti and arch rival 50 brake sets and xtr 8 spd cassettes and Sram 9.0sl gripshifters on FleaBay to upgrade to disc's and 9 spd I stocked up. I have everything I want and need for a long, long time. My stuff NEVER breaks and performs flawlessly. I see no need to change. When I see all the issues people have with breaking parts or things not functioning properly I know I made the right decision for MOI. Hard to beat zero down time in over 6 years.
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