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  1. #1
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    Grouch - 8spd, v-brake modern full suspension?

    I've found 8 spd stuff to be the most durable. I hate my Avid Juicy's that rub, yeah they stop great, until they f(&%ing boil on epic descents - then you s$*@# your pants) and just want the simplicity of v-brakes. Does anyone make a modern full suspension for xc riding with 8 spd and v-brakes?

    thx

  2. #2
    slow
    Reputation: sgltrak's Avatar
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    Most manufacturers are pushing 9 and 10 spd stuff, so you may be out of luck unless you pick up some older shifters, chain and cassette. These can still be found, but are becoming harder to find. They should fit just about any frame. I am still using 8 spd, but finding it more and more difficult to find replacement parts.

    For brakes, what about Avid BB-7's? They stop well and don't boil, don't require bleeding, and they bolt right up where your Juicy's came off.

  3. #3
    Plays with tools
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    I don't think anybody has made a FS frame with canti studs in over 5 years. Get something used or get with the program.

  4. #4
    nobody
    Reputation: wookalar's Avatar
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    I finally got with the program myself this year and switched from v's to avid mechanicals and I've been really happy with them and I don't see myself ever going back.

    As for 8-speed, there's no reason it won't work on new FS bikes, but the trick will be finding parts.
    I'm what Willis was talkin' about

  5. #5
    AKA Frank N. Bike!!
    Reputation: Kona0197's Avatar
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    Lower end Shimano Alivio has all the 8 speed parts you could ever want.
    My Bike: '03 Specialized HardRock FrankenBike
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  6. #6
    Jenson USA
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    I definitely agree with you on 8 speed reliability. V-brakes are awesome too.. I love the weight savings and cleaner looks.

    But if you're a true retro grouch, I think it's more about hardtails or even rigid bikes...

    I say try to find some retro Amp Research or something similar.

  7. #7
    AKA Frank N. Bike!!
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    V-brakes are awesome too.. I love the weight savings and cleaner looks.
    Magura makes a disc brake set that is lighter than a set of V-brakes.
    My Bike: '03 Specialized HardRock FrankenBike
    My Blog: http://http://kona0197.wordpress.com/

  8. #8
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    So, what would be a well designed FS bike from 5 years ago?, in order to get the v-brake bosses?

  9. #9
    slow
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarboy View Post
    So, what would be a well designed FS bike from 5 years ago?, in order to get the v-brake bosses?
    My wife likes her Santa Cruz Superlight from a few years back. It has v-brake studs.

  10. #10
    Another Retro Grouch
    Reputation: pursuiter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarboy View Post
    ...I hate my Avid Juicy's...
    Switch to BB7s, you'll be glad you did. Learn to service 9 speeds stuff and replace components as need.

    Or just switch to SS/IGH hardtail 29er with BB7s. There are good reasons why it's a popular bike, you seem to have discovered most of them. Best part of a HT 29er SS is no rattles, no service, just ride.

  11. #11
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    Love the idea of SS, but it's damn hilly here & my joints are getting old. Like 3-5 hour climb hilly. SS would be pleasant on about 20% of the trails around... Not sure I want to give up the plushness of FS, I'll have to try some more rides on a 29er.

  12. #12
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    How would the Superlight compare in ride with my FSR? - thx

  13. #13
    Another Retro Grouch
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarboy View Post
    Love the idea of SS, but it's damn hilly here & my joints are getting old. Like 3-5 hour climb hilly....
    Alfine 8

  14. #14
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    My yukon is an 8 speed, but it has discs.
    2010 Giant Yukon FX
    Pure XCR Wheelset/Geax Saguaro Tires/Tubeless
    Bike Weight Lost: 2.48lbs (1124g)

  15. #15
    Hi.
    Reputation: jtmartino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197 View Post
    Magura makes a disc brake set that is lighter than a set of V-brakes.
    That's a pretty broad statement, and totally wrong. I assume you're talking about the Magura MT8 which weighs 380g with a rotor, for just one brake. There are a hell of a lot of v-brake models that are <400g for both front and rear.

    Rim wheels are also lighter than disc-specific wheels in the weightweenie category.

  16. #16
    I like pie.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pursuiter View Post
    Switch to BB7s, you'll be glad you did. Learn to service 9 speeds stuff and replace components as need.

    Or just switch to SS/IGH hardtail 29er with BB7s. There are good reasons why it's a popular bike, you seem to have discovered most of them. Best part of a HT 29er SS is no rattles, no service, just ride.
    My SL is 9 speed with BB7s. Got no complaints.

    IIRC when Shimano 9sp first came out there were some issues, but that was for the first year. Once set up, I've had no problems. I don't miss 8sp.

  17. #17
    AKA Frank N. Bike!!
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    That's a pretty broad statement, and totally wrong. I assume you're talking about the Magura MT8 which weighs 380g with a rotor, for just one brake. There are a hell of a lot of v-brake models that are <400g for both front and rear.
    I was talking about the MT2 that weighs in at 245g with rotor.
    My Bike: '03 Specialized HardRock FrankenBike
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  18. #18
    Hi.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197 View Post
    I was talking about the MT2 that weighs in at 245g with rotor.
    And you'd still be wrong. The MT2 weighs 335 grams including a rotor:

    MT2 | The Straight Dirt | MountainBike.com

    2012 Magura Brake Weights (Including Rotors):
    MT8: 280 grams; MT6: 310 grams; MT4: 320 grams; MT2: 335 grams



    Looks like their website is way off. I was wrong about the MT8 weight...it's 280 incl rotor. Which is still much heavier than many V-brake systems.

    There are V-brake sets at ~300g for the whole set.

  19. #19
    AKA Frank N. Bike!!
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    And you'd still be wrong. The MT2 weighs 335 grams including a rotor:
    I got my numbers from the Magura website.

    I looked up how much a set of Avid V-brakes weigh. Around 185g. Not much more weight for a disc setup. I have seen some exotic disc setups that weigh less.
    My Bike: '03 Specialized HardRock FrankenBike
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  20. #20
    bi-winning
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197 View Post
    Lower end Shimano Alivio has all the 8 speed parts you could ever want.
    Though 8 speed Alivio is still available, the most recent Alivio line up has gone 9 speed.

    Alivio 9 speed
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.


    Shorthills Cycling Club

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197 View Post
    Lower end Shimano Alivio has all the 8 speed parts you could ever want.
    I have an Alivio 2X8 set up on my CX bike and it is spot on. I barely clean it (never perhaps?) and with all the gunk, mud, dirt and whatever, it shifts perfectly. Dirt as lube?

    Don't forget SRAM has 8-speed stuff, too. I have an X-4 shifter and a 1X8 I'm putting on a commuter bike. It was all previously on my Leader 510H (now SS), and the SRAM had zero problems.

    I never really cared for 9-speed - I feel like I had to adjust it all the time to work right.

  22. #22
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Can you get a new 3spd all drum-brake equipped car?

    An epic descent that would cause disc brake fluid to boil would have killed off V brakes a long time before that. Sounds like there is something wrong with your disc brakes, although disc brakes are relatively simple as far as mechanical layout and operation. I've never found avid quality control to be very good, and about the only thing I think they design really well is grippy fast-wearing brake pads, but still with any recent/decent system there shouldn't be any big problems. Lots of small shops out there though that don't know the first thing about how to bleed brakes, these shops are usually selling tons of low-end stuff usually and fairly easy to spot. They don't have the $$$ to stay on top of these things because they don't do the amount of sales where it benefits them to keep all bleed kids and parts in stock.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  23. #23
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197 View Post
    I got my numbers from the Magura website.

    I looked up how much a set of Avid V-brakes weigh. Around 185g. Not much more weight for a disc setup. I have seen some exotic disc setups that weigh less.
    And of course the rim has to weigh more to support the V-brakes.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  24. #24
    Hi.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    And of course the rim has to weigh more to support the V-brakes.
    Not by much. The average high-end disc brake rim weighs ~325-350g. The average high-end rim-brake rim weighs 350g - 375g. Factor in the heavier disc hubs, and V-brakes are still lighter.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kona0197 View Post
    I got my numbers from the Magura website.

    I looked up how much a set of Avid V-brakes weigh. Around 185g. Not much more weight for a disc setup. I have seen some exotic disc setups that weigh less.
    As far as I know, the lightest Disc model available is the FRM DBR250. And it's still much heavier than the lightest V-brake, as well as 5x as expensive.

    This is a losing battle in the discussion of weights. We're not talking performance here, just weight. If you factor in performance, there's no comparison, but then you also have to consider the tremendous difference in price.

  25. #25
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    It would be so much easier to just get a better set of brakes than to find an old FS frame with V-brake mounts. I've had pretty good luck with Formula brakes. But if you insist on V-brakes, just get a Surly Karate Monkey and give up rear suspension. The big wheels will smooth out the trail a llitle bit (but don't believe the hype - it still won't be as plush as FS). Since you obviously aren't very good at working on bikes, not having rear suspension means one less thing to worry about.

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