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  1. #76
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    Last edited by gnawbonelefty; 09-09-2012 at 09:05 PM.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnawbonelefty View Post
    I wouldn't draw any lines governments do. see this wikipedia link for your locale.

    Electric bicycle laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You can argue what is and isn't cycling, bus as someone whose been on both sides of the issue, I see no harm in assists.
    is riding at night with a light, an electric assist? technically yes, should it be illegal no.
    I was sooooo in your corner right up until the light comment. Comparing a light to an electric assist is like comparing....well there isn't anything I can think of to use as an example that is equally dumb.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by G0at View Post
    If he was talking on his cell while sipping a latte, throwing the wrapper from his deluxe triple bypass lardburger on the trail, and/or being a regular ******, then I definately would call him in. If he was just out enjoying the trail, prolly wouldn't worry about it.
    This statement pretty much covers my view on this
    is.
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  4. #79
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    Weird idea to me.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnawbonelefty View Post
    I wouldn't draw any lines governments do. see this wikipedia link for your locale.

    Electric bicycle laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You can argue what is and isn't cycling, bus as someone whose been on both sides of the issue, I see no harm in assists.
    is riding at night with a light, an electric assist? technically yes, should it be illegal no.
    No an electric light isn't moving your bike, it's just light the path a little different then an electric motor.

  6. #81
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    Last edited by gnawbonelefty; 09-09-2012 at 09:06 PM.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnawbonelefty View Post
    I'd hate for mountain bikers to become like all the groups that tried and are still trying to limit mt bike access, by becoming discriminatory of any type of cycling that is new or different just because it is different.
    Tell me how riding a mtb frame with an electic motor doing 50+mph is "a new type of cycling"? Unless you draw the line somewhere, we will be treated by the new least common denominator. All the bolshevist environmental groups are salivating at the prospect of being able to throw mtbs in the same bag with motorized vehicles, this is like their dream come true.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Tell me how riding a mtb frame with an electic motor doing 50+mph is "a new type of cycling"? Unless you draw the line somewhere, we will be treated by the new least common denominator. All the bolshevist environmental groups are salivating at the prospect of being able to throw mtbs in the same bag with motorized vehicles, this is like their dream come true.
    I think this pretty much nails it. No matter which side of the fence you are on politically mountain bikes currently enjoy privileged status because they are non-motorized.

  9. #84
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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    I think this pretty much nails it. No matter which side of the fence you are on politically mountain bikes currently enjoy privileged status because they are non-motorized.
    Catering the the Bunny Huggers is what has gotten us into the position we are in today, where we argue over how much erosion a friggin mtn bike tire might make on a trail, where we beg for land usage, and walk on eggshells while we still lose land, Absolutely Pathetic.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnawbonelefty View Post
    I've stumbled across this thread and realized there wasn't anyone posting who actually owned an electric assist bike, so I thought I'd chime in.

    I have been riding mountain bikes for 25 years, I'm fortunate enough to live where there are miles of great trails out my back door. I had long been involved in trail advocacy and spent countless hours designing and building a trail system that is now classified as an imba epic.

    3 years ago, I was afflicted with a severe heart condition, caused by a virus. I could no longer ride more than a mile or two and even then I needed to stop on every slight incline.
    finally things got so bad I spent 1/2 a year in the hospital and was released until after a transplant. I was in horrible shape, and even had severe nerve damage to one of my legs. Plus my doctors did want me to exercise, but not push it "too" hard,

    I wanted to get back into cycling, but wanted to ride with friends, and not be alone in the woods. The electric assist was the way to go. I setup a hardtail with a bionx 350watt high torque setup. It served my purposes fantastically. I was able to ride all winter, as I got stronger, I was able to rider longer because I'd use the battery less. Eventually I got to a point I was ready to ride without the assist.

    So I have a few points that may help in understanding electric assists place in the mountain bike world.

    • A lazy person is at home on the couch not on the trail.
    • With electric assist you still have to work.
    • An assist kit makes a 25lb hardtail closer to 45lbs, most people would prefer the joy of the lighter bike. I know I do.
    • for someone trying to get back into shape it is an excellent training tool.
    • it will not do any more damage than a regular mt bike, yes it adds 20-25lbs to a bike, but I routinely see people who more than 25lbs more than me, and I don't think they should be excluded.
    • Now that mountain bikers have some access we should be about being inclusive not like the snotty groups that long tried to keep us off the trails.

      In all , electric assist does serve a purpose. If someone feels they need it to make a ride worthwhile given their physical limitations, I would applaud them.
    Thanks for sharing your story

    I was amazed at the responces by members who even after reading your story, still seem to maintain a tough stance against electric-assisted bikes despite being disabled or not. I personally find electric bikes fascinating, would I own one, no, I'm more than able to move about under my own power. But I'm fascinated with the technology that would allow a disabled person the ability to experience bike riding that would otherwise not be able to do so. As for Fat and Lazy people, those people tend to stay at home eating pizzas while playing video games. An electric bike sounds simple but you're still having to work and put up with the same conditions as everyone else on a trail aka weather and bugs etc.

    I think we should come down off our high horse a bit and acknowledge the fact that there I some practicallty to electric assisted bikes such as for disabled people. I further salute any over weight person hitting up the trails, whether it's crank or electric power. Now with that said, electric bike owners should work along side other bike riders in maintaining parks and trails.

  12. #87
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    Electric Assist Cycling is the wave of the future for commuting, so technology will continue to increase. Electric motors are become super light and powerful at a rapid pace. Eventually if they make their way into MTB's, they will tear up trails faster than just our legs will.

    Regarding off road singletrack, there should be a pretty clear cut line - its either human powered trails, or not. If a rider cannot ride singletrack designated for bikes w/o electric assist due to health issues, then they should be sticking to gravel/fireroads and paths.

    E-assist is great overall though, as hopefully we will one day live in a world with a majority of people commuting and running errands on electric bicycles. Even off-road motorcycles will eventually evolve into hybrid zero emission rigs, with little to no sound.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by motard5 View Post
    Eventually if they make their way into MTB's, they will tear up trails faster than just our legs will.
    do you have supporting evidence for this assertion? I'm guessing no, because it just isn't true. aside from the bike being 20lbs heavier, there is no more damage done, than if I were a 20lb heavier rider.

    Regarding off road singletrack, there should be a pretty clear cut line - its either human powered trails, or not. If a rider cannot ride singletrack designated for bikes w/o electric assist due to health issues, then they should be sticking to gravel/fireroads and paths.
    [/QUOTE]

    why? Is there any good reason for this?
    I heard the same thing about mt bikes, when they first came out. We are now seeing the same baseless attitudes amongst our own. When working for trail access for mountain bikes our worst enemies always were people who classified themselves as cyclists. saying things like bikes can say the world but they'll destroy trails.

    bunk! then bunk now.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecializedWindsor View Post
    Personally, I'd never use them. The human body is way more reliable than an electric bike motor, and who would want to spend that much $? To me, it seems like a foolish and rather lazy alternative to human pedal power. Electric motors are wonderful for cars and other large vehicles, though (assuming you can afford the high electric bill).
    Noise would be a concern for me and the wildlife. And yeah, it could certainly lead to trail courtesy issues.
    I would call the ranger because it technically counts as a motorized vehicle.
    Around here, it's illegal to ride ANY motorized vehicle on the trails (you could wind up paying a nasty fine or getting sued). And because there are horseback riders that also use the trails, an electric motor would probably scare the daylights out of the poor horses.
    Yes and no, sure a electric engine isn't tougher than the human body, but what about electronic limbs and that sort of stuff? [Deus Ex, anyone?!]

  15. #90
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    Back OT: E-bikes should be only driven by people who have a license for it, Please start with that in Holland and keep the old people from the road, they cause more accidents than anyone else!

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wasmachineman NL View Post
    Back OT: E-bikes should be only driven by people who have a license for it, Please start with that in Holland and keep the old people from the road, they cause more accidents than anyone else!
    Yea if only certain people were allowed to do certain things, only the strong should survive and only the wealthy should have fun!!!
    And those pesky old people, I mean what can be done with undesirable people?

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  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaystein View Post
    I think as long as the motor is 100% electric and doesn't tear up the trails then sure. It seems to me a little dangerous to just hop on a mountain trail on a motor, but hey I guess it's kind of dangerous anyway.

    There are plenty of cement trails in Denver/Aurora that seems like a more appropriate place for an electric bicycle, imo.
    It doesn't matter if its 100% electric, an electric motor is still a motor. Most bike trails have a "no motor" vehicle policy and this would be a violation gas or electric.


    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    The E Bike crowd could lobby for their own trails, kinda like "earn you're turns". MTBing has enough access issues without having to contend with motorized interlopers, .
    +1
    I do all my own stunts, but never intentionally...

  18. #93
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS
    The E Bike crowd could lobby for their own trails, kinda like "earn you're turns". MTBing has enough access issues without having to contend with motorized interlopers, .
    +1

    +2

    It doesn't matter if its 100% electric, an electric motor is still a motor. Most bike trails have a "no motor" vehicle policy and this would be a violation gas or electric.
    Not sure why this is so hard to understand. What is the difference between an electric assist bike and a low powered gas bike (moped) with a really good muffler?

  19. #94
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    Last edited by gnawbonelefty; 09-10-2012 at 08:24 AM.

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnawbonelefty View Post
    A moped makes sound an electric assist bike is quiet, a moped is primarily engine driven, an electric assist just assists. .
    You made some interesting points that I was looking forward to reading further about but all your posted just got deleted
    I do all my own stunts, but never intentionally...

  21. #96
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    Did someone reference the Holocaust in a thread about electric bikes??

    I invoke Godwin's Law.
    Check out my You Tube Channel

  22. #97
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  23. #98
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    I have a Stealth Fighter(69lbs and I'm 150lbs). It really does not impact trails anymore than any other mtb. There is no burn-out/rooster tail kind of power. I still pedal my a$s off all of the ride, and have to on steep up hills, but its like having super PED strength. Ok, maybe I ghost pedal on some inclines. Let me live

    Even though I can do 32mph on flat street, I can't go any faster on the trail than non-E mtb due to all of those pesky trees, etc. What it does, is allow a 40yo, busy dad with badish knees to enjoy mtb'ing again.

    My bike has a heavy hub motor. This looks nice to me:
    Haibike Xduro AMT Pro 2014

  24. #99
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    This is only the beginning. Hybrid bikes that store energy from braking that look like and are as light as mountain bikes today will be coming in the future. They won't ride on batteries all day, but they will allow you to cover more ground, switch between electrical and human power, etc.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCON2009 View Post
    This looks nice to me:
    Haibike Xduro AMT Pro 2014
    that does look nice, no weight mentioned though. I kind of want one but i might feel like a tool at more serious places, but i would poach trails in golden gate park and it would be kind of a range extender on longer rides until it dies and then more like a boat anchor

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