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  1. #1
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    Are E-bikes gonna kill Strava?

    First of all, let me say that I like to use strava to find new routes/people to ride with and compare times. Having said that, I'm not a hardcore fan of it and I don't care much whether someone steals my KOM. If its done on a vehicle I do report the activity in hope of keeping the ranking table honest.

    To me real life > strava, though I do enjoy using it.

    I can foresee in the future segments will be led by e-bikes times, destroying the times and making the ranking worthless or a big mess at least.

    What do you guys think will happen then?

  2. #2
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    ebikes will only kill "strava" climb times I'd guess. Descending will still be up to the skill of the rider on who wins that. I only do strava times for downhill runs.

  3. #3
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    Drones too
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  4. #4
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    I like to track my progress, that's all that really matters to me. You can cheat fitness but you can't cheat skill.

  5. #5
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    Who cares...

    I post rides on Strava so my buddies can see my routes- that's it.

    Cyclemeter for tracking them and RideWithGPS are what I've used for many years.
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  6. #6
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    E-bikes only kill Strava for you if you take the leaderboards seriously and it bothers you that you are not the fastest among a group of names of people you may never meet. Otherwise no, e-bikes will not kill Strava.


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  7. #7
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    Strava has an E-Bike classification. Removes the actvity from the Ride classification.

  8. #8
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    I truly hope so...
    "Bicycles have the magic power to go
    to enchanted places cars will never know." - mafo

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    I truly hope so...
    No need to hope, it is fact. Onus is on the user to change. Such is life

  10. #10
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    Any time I get in the top 10 on a Strava segment I just remind myself of the 10 guys I know off the top of my head that are faster than me who either don't use Strava or keep their rides private. Strava is great for lots of things, and the rankings are fun/interesting to look at, but it's best not to get to caught up in them.

  11. #11
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    not high on my list of burning issues to which I need an answer so I don't throw myself off a cliff...
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  12. #12
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    Too late, cell phones have already killed Strava. Guys who use a computer and wheel sensor are already behind the tees compared to folks tracking on their phone.

    Examples: There's a fun 1/2 mile downhill with some jumps at a local trail. A buddy who can't touch me on downhills has me beat on Strava by 17 seconds......on a half mile downhill.......that we rode at the same time.

    Pinhoti 3 in North GA has an awesome 3 mile downhill run riddled with rocks and roots. On a ride one of our buddies tried to cartwheel off the mountain. We waited for ~5 minutes for him at the bottom. When we finished out the day, he beat everyone using a bike computer (he used his phone) by 30 seconds. WTF? LOL.

    I personally feel like Strava has too many tracking flaws to put any faith in their data. I use it for their fitness insights and to see friends rides and poach their rides.
    In serving the wicked, expect no reward, and be thankful if you escape injury for your pains.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stalkerfiveo View Post
    Too late, cell phones have already killed Strava. Guys who use a computer and wheel sensor are already behind the tees compared to folks tracking on their phone.
    I've wondered about that but I've been on rides with people using different devices (and wheel sensors) and my phone seems to sync dead on with them. Segments where I'm a few seconds back or ahead are accurately reflected in the results and entire rides are within seconds of each other.

    Anyway the guy with the most KOM's in my vicinity uses a Garmin with wheel sensor and it doesn't seem to slow him down any.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  14. #14
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    Virtual doping, drafting and driving cars are also ways to steal an illegitimate KOM, and anyone doing these things is a pretty pathetic individual IMO.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  15. #15
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    I'd be too embarrassed to show my face on the local trails with the e-bike if I stoled a KOM on one. I don't get all worked up over Strava but I know others do. Some b*tch about cheaters a lot on the local mtb association forums. If I bumped into one of these guys, I'd be getting serious evil eye

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twimby View Post
    Strava has an E-Bike classification. Removes the actvity from the Ride classification.
    That only works if the rider actually self-selects that option.

    It will get the segment-hunters and excessively competitive people all wound up, no arguing that. But that's far from the majority of people who use Strava. I pretty much only measure myself against myself on Strava. My rides are only public for the reason that it lets me use the social features of the site.

    I have noted Strava's limits with tracking. I ride with my wife most of the time. I'm the faster one, and yet from time to time Strava says she's finished a segment faster than me even though the gap between us grew on that stretch of trail. We BOTH ride with Garmin Edge 520s with wheel sensors. It makes me shake my head for sure. But no sense getting bent out of shape or obsessed over it.

    I love that downhill on P3. My wife informed me the other day that we're now only about 3hrs away from there (as if I didn't already know this!).

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDLover View Post
    What do you guys think will happen then?
    Absolutely nothing.

    The majority of Strava users are either competing with their mates or competing with themselves. Some doofus cheating on an E-Bike will either get caught and duly hazed by his/her buddies or completely ignored.

    Besides, there are already KOMs in my area that were achieved on MX bikes, E-Bikers got no chance (also, one of them might be mine, brap brap).

  18. #18
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    A friend of mine uses strava to track his dirt bike rides. You should see his KOMs. Strava just needs to ban these people and the problem will be solved. They know who pays the bills, so it WILL happen eventually.

  19. #19
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    I like strava because the interface is slick and it's a fun social site for riding with my friends. Before it I used the Garmin site that I could upload to via Connect (and whatever the interface was before that). When it comes to looking at segment times and stuff I love strava for comparing my performance today to my previous efforts. I'm not as fast as the KOM dudes/dudettes on there so that doesn't matter to me. I love comparing my efforts and how I felt on a ride to my previous uploads though.
    :wq

  20. #20
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    I wish the Strava racing culture dies out, but don't think doing it in such a negative fashion (ebike, digital epo) is an effective way to get such a result. It's like offending someone with NPD traits (narcissistic personality disorder); they won't take it lying down and may take their behavior to new heights/extremes to spite the cheaters.

    I like the integrity of my records. Not going to be the one doing it and honestly only use it to compare to the past me and my friends. I also use it for other gee whiz info, like maintenance log tracking, like how long chain lube lasts, and time between suspension service, and tire life. Strava won't die until something better comes out to replace it, especially if you can import data over.

    My Garmin 520 has a setting for ebike. Can make a new preset for it and select between it and training, racing, etc. Strava will automatically see it as an ebike ride. One notable problem with the ebike ride setting for Strava is that their minimum segment length is quite restrictive. Can't make a new segment for a 1 minute climb, for instance. Haven't tried making ebike segments at all for my local riding area, and have only seen 1 other segment created.

    As for anecdote, I've only been on an ebike since late Nov, and seen ebikes in small numbers ever since I started paying attention. See 1-3 a month on chance meetings, not regularly. No obvious ebiker KOMs; usual XC racer types on the top, on both the climbs and descents (at least the flowier ones).
    We're all on the same ship, and it's sinking.

  21. #21
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    In the Venn diagram of my world, Strava only intersects because the National Bicycling Challenge requires miles be logged through the site. A pain in the @$$ if you don't have a device to link to it. I'd much rather just upload my miles on the old site.
    The most expensive bike in the world is still cheaper than the cheapest open heart surgery.

  22. #22
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    What's strava?

    And as for ebikes, I heard of the nasty little beasts but have never really seen one.

  23. #23
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    I use strava. If KOMs disappeared, I would not notice.
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  24. #24
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    Great. Take my KOMs. Unless it's something just outlandish and untouchable, like pro XC racer + e-bike, it's just a carrot to chase.

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    What's strava?
    For those who don't like it, use it, or just think its stupid this is a great attitude to adopt.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  26. #26
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    If E-bikes do kill Strava, can I change my answer in the "E-bikes on your local trail" poll?
    Is this where I write something witty?

  27. #27
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    I'm pretty late to the Strava game. I mostly only use to to hear about Friend's rides, and so they can hear about mine. I like to do a little bit of performance tracking on myself as well. I share a few numbers with a few friends on occasion for bench racing.

    In my area the KOMs are beyond by reach, and to be frank, I'd have to be suicidal to attempt them. Way to fast to ride without significant risk, at least for me. I feel like Strava KOMs are going to end up like the Guiness Book of Worlds Records. After a point, most things are just too outlandish to even try. If Strava is to really evolve I think it won't have to do with a new KOM system.

  28. #28
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    Strava's leaderboards are so packed, at this point it's more entertaining to challenge your own riding buddies on segments. Make small groups just including your actual riding buddies and worry about those leaderboards. That's worked for me lately.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warnerja27 View Post
    Strava's leaderboards are so packed, at this point it's more entertaining to challenge your own riding buddies on segments. Make small groups just including your actual riding buddies and worry about those leaderboards. That's worked for me lately.
    I thought I was hot shit after getting into a tie for second on a segment in Moab with 10,000+ unique users, one second behind the KOM.

    Then someone put 30+ seconds into me. I'm pretty fast when I'm in great shape, and I definitely wasn't at the top of my game that weekend, but I also know that there's no real world scenario in which I close that gap.

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  30. #30
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    Around here there's a Segment called "LAME." It's about 20 seconds around a little paved parking lot near a trail head. Most recent KOM was something about 45mph. Didn't think that was possible (not sanely, anyway) even on a motorcycle.

    I just look at my rides afterward with strava. Almost never thinking about a time while I ride. Useful tracking app, that's about all.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by hesitationpoint View Post
    I'd be too embarrassed to show my face on the local trails with the e-bike if I stoled a KOM on one.
    But what if you used the username "Nicolai T." or "Edison Electric" or "Electron Gnar"??
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  32. #32
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    " Video killed the radio star"

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by leeboh View Post
    " Video killed the radio star"
    TV shows on mtv killed the video star

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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithcreek View Post
    Any time I get in the top 10 on a Strava segment I just remind myself of the 10 guys I know off the top of my head that are faster than me who either don't use Strava or keep their rides private. Strava is great for lots of things, and the rankings are fun/interesting to look at, but it's best not to get to caught up in them.
    I wouldn't even want to know the fastest time on any trail, because that distracts from the idea that you should be having FUN on the trail instead of chasing some stranger's time in the name of competition. I'm glad I deleted this app also because I don't want anyone really tracking where I go, as can be deciphered in the signature below.
    Murphy's Law: the worse the access, the better the trail.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by richj8990 View Post
    I wouldn't even want to know the fastest time on any trail, because that distracts from the idea that you should be having FUN on the trail instead of chasing some stranger's time in the name of competition.

    Keep in mind that chasing some stranger's time in the name of competition is FUN for certain demented individuals, to each his own eh? And to those claiming to use strava only for tracking I call s certain amount of bs because there are plenty of other apps that do that well without leaderboards. Most humans have a secret desire to see how they stack up against others.
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  36. #36
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    I like Strava because there are times it is fun to push hard and see how fast I can go. Just this week I went hard on a 3 minute segment and was rewarded with a 5th overall vs 983 others. I bet my previous best by 15 seconds (3:45 vs 4:01) and I am 14 seconds off KOM. Fun to see I am improving and in striking distance of the fastest. It is flat segment (1% grade) with turns and my best was without wind assist so. Now in the end it fun to chase some these and be close, but overall I am just not KOM material. Not quite "that fast", but still like pushing. It turns out that ride where I set my PR was a group ride and I was trying to pull a gap on from the others. When I stopped to regroup I saw that I did pull a gap and that is always nice to see. Strava confirmed for me the work I put in was not a result of the others slowing, but me getting faster. Strava is great training tool or gear adjustment tool to see if changes are actually working. e-bikes are cheating when compared to normal bikes. e-bikes should be classes seperatelly, but it is up to the user to police. The issue is you can see clearly when someone takes a KOM on a road at 55mph when everyone else is 25-35 mph. You know it was a car. E-bikes are darn near impossible to spot on strava since the power increase is only enough take slower rider and "bump him up" a bit vs make him obviously fast.

    Then again many road bike KOM's on flats are wind assisted or group rides with drafting/pacing (or both). Everyone already knows this and it just the way things are.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    It will get the segment-hunters and excessively competitive people all wound up, no arguing that.
    I think it would be a bit amusing to use an e-bike to beat these competitors by just a few seconds on their KOMs. You know, just enough of a margin to make it believable.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  38. #38
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    hopefully the eBike guys use the eBike setting on Strava.

    sad and pathetic if they knowingly ride an eBike and track it as 100% human powered.


    In the end it will not really effect me as I am in the middle of the pack for all my Strava times, I am really only interested in beating my own personal times. I don't even fret with how i compare to those in my circle of riding buddies.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I think it would be a bit amusing to use an e-bike to beat these competitors by just a few seconds on their KOMs. You know, just enough of a margin to make it believable.
    That would be pretty funny. I know enough people who are segment hunters that would get some real bees in their bonnets, so to speak.

    I know a guy who bought a Sondor e-fatbike and showed up to a roadie group ride and hung with everybody no problem. He's already primarily a roadie, anyway, but it was funny because everybody else was working pretty hard and it was more like a recovery ride for him. Would have been funnier if he had quietly gone out solo and taken some roadie KOM's.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I think it would be a bit amusing to use an e-bike to beat these competitors by just a few seconds on their KOMs. You know, just enough of a margin to make it believable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    That would be pretty funny. I know enough people who are segment hunters that would get some real bees in their bonnets, so to speak.



    So funny I forgot to laugh (snort) Whatever trips your trigger I guess but it's hard for me to understand how some people get off on stepping on someone else's fun just for a giggle.
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    So funny I forgot to laugh (snort) Whatever trips your trigger I guess but it's hard for me to understand how some people get off on stepping on someone else's fun just for a giggle.
    It's all in good fun. Harmless. You've never put rocks in someone's pack (or had rocks put in yours)?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    So funny I forgot to laugh (snort) Whatever trips your trigger I guess but it's hard for me to understand how some people get off on stepping on someone else's fun just for a giggle.
    You sir are right, but... It just is fun all the time for most of us mtb'rs. I love the feeling of dropping other riders on a section, and I usually enjoy (sort of) being dropped. I like hanging as long as possible with faster riders and watching their lines.
    I also like to tell myself, "well maybe I show more steez than that fast guy!"
    oops I wasn't clipped in

  43. #43
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    Never used Strava. I like AllTrails.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
    It's all in good fun. Harmless. You've never put rocks in someone's pack (or had rocks put in yours)?
    Apologies in advance for the following hijack.

    I took my daughter backpacking for her first time when she was 6. When we got back to the car at the trail head, she started pulling "pretty" rocks out of her little backpack. I told her, "Oh sweetie, we're not supposed to take rocks out of the park." She wasn't too disappointed, but told me I needed to leave mine behind too.

    (me) "But I didn't put any rocks in my backpack."

    (her) "I know, I did. I ran out of room in mine."

    I bought her a couple of souvenir rocks at the gift shop.
    ¯\(°_o)/¯

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    Apologies in advance for the following hijack.

    I took my daughter backpacking for her first time when she was 6. When we got back to the car at the trail head, she started pulling "pretty" rocks out of her little backpack. I told her, "Oh sweetie, we're not supposed to take rocks out of the park." She wasn't too disappointed, but told me I needed to leave mine behind too.

    (me) "But I didn't put any rocks in my backpack."

    (her) "I know, I did. I ran out of room in mine."

    I bought her a couple of souvenir rocks at the gift shop.
    I love it.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    Apologies in advance for the following hijack.

    I took my daughter backpacking for her first time when she was 6. When we got back to the car at the trail head, she started pulling "pretty" rocks out of her little backpack. I told her, "Oh sweetie, we're not supposed to take rocks out of the park." She wasn't too disappointed, but told me I needed to leave mine behind too.

    (me) "But I didn't put any rocks in my backpack."

    (her) "I know, I did. I ran out of room in mine."

    I bought her a couple of souvenir rocks at the gift shop.
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    So funny I forgot to laugh (snort) Whatever trips your trigger I guess but it's hard for me to understand how some people get off on stepping on someone else's fun just for a giggle.
    I think you need to realize that my level of seriousness was, as typical, extremely low.

    I mean, who doesn't have fun messing with their friends every so often?
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by the one ring View Post
    Apologies in advance for the following hijack.

    I took my daughter backpacking for her first time when she was 6. When we got back to the car at the trail head, she started pulling "pretty" rocks out of her little backpack. I told her, "Oh sweetie, we're not supposed to take rocks out of the park." She wasn't too disappointed, but told me I needed to leave mine behind too.

    (me) "But I didn't put any rocks in my backpack."

    (her) "I know, I did. I ran out of room in mine."

    I bought her a couple of souvenir rocks at the gift shop.
    That is awesome. It sounds like she'd be a good geologist.

    I remember sneaking rock samples into my cousin's backpack while out in the mountains.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    I think you need to realize that my level of seriousness was, as typical, extremely low.

    I mean, who doesn't have fun messing with their friends every so often?
    Sure, if it's your buddy and you have a good laugh later and delete your ride then of course it's all good.

    However, If you do it to a stranger because you think its dumb that they're so competitive, which has been suggested, then that's pretty much the equivalent of joining a casual ride and doing your best to make it unenjoyable for everyone else.
    I brake for stinkbugs

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Keep in mind that chasing some stranger's time in the name of competition is FUN for certain demented individuals, to each his own eh? And to those claiming to use strava only for tracking I call s certain amount of bs because there are plenty of other apps that do that well without leaderboards. Most humans have a secret desire to see how they stack up against others.
    Yeah, but if you're like me (almost perfectly mid-pack on some trails, bottom third on others) then you figure it out pretty quick and don't bother checking it much. I push the "my history" button a lot.

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    The hell with E-bikes and strava.

  52. #52
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    In the best of worlds, they would kill each other.
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    hopefully the eBike guys use the eBike setting on Strava.

    sad and pathetic if they knowingly ride an eBike and track it as 100% human powered.


    In the end it will not really effect me as I am in the middle of the pack for all my Strava times, I am really only interested in beating my own personal times. I don't even fret with how i compare to those in my circle of riding buddies.
    I know a local e-bike rider who puts his e-bike times on the public leaderboards, I looked into how the system works for flagging these rides but it's not clear how it works and seems reliant on the e-bike rider admitting they were on the e-bike. I have no problems at all with someone joining us on an ebike but posting the Strava times does bug me a bit even though I generally just use Strava for tracking.

    I did wonder if the person was just making a mistake but pretty sure they're not particularly as their profile is set to private and they did make a thing of beating one of my uphill times. I'd rather someone joined us on an ebike rather than sit at home if they're not well enough to keep up normally but I can't understand why they'd want their times on an unassisted leaderboard as that is just blatant cheating.
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  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMcL7 View Post
    I know a local e-bike rider who puts his e-bike times on the public leaderboards, I looked into how the system works for flagging these rides but it's not clear how it works and seems reliant on the e-bike rider admitting they were on the e-bike. I have no problems at all with someone joining us on an ebike but posting the Strava times does bug me a bit even though I generally just use Strava for tracking.

    I did wonder if the person was just making a mistake but pretty sure they're not particularly as their profile is set to private and they did make a thing of beating one of my uphill times. I'd rather someone joined us on an ebike rather than sit at home if they're not well enough to keep up normally but I can't understand why they'd want their times on an unassisted leaderboard as that is just blatant cheating.
    I think you can flag his rides and declare he is on an eBike. I am not sure if anyone actually investigates to follow up on it.
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  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Sure, if it's your buddy and you have a good laugh later and delete your ride then of course it's all good.

    However, If you do it to a stranger because you think its dumb that they're so competitive, which has been suggested, then that's pretty much the equivalent of joining a casual ride and doing your best to make it unenjoyable for everyone else.
    Ah cripes, let me spell this out for you.

    MY POST WAS NOT SERIOUS!!

    Do you really think that I'd drop big $$ on a machine that I detest just to mess with competetive riders on Strava?
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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klurejr View Post
    I think you can flag his rides and declare he is on an eBike. I am not sure if anyone actually investigates to follow up on it.
    You can flag the rides but when I looked into it there didn't seem to be any investigation into it and ultimately if the rider refused to accept it, the segment would stand. I guess the problem is people could maliciously report genuine rides to get them off the leaderboards.
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  57. #57
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    Anyone else using the heat map to find new trails/routes to ride?

    https://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#4.5....67062/hot/all
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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    Anyone else using the heat map to find new trails/routes to ride?

    https://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#4.5....67062/hot/all
    Yep.

    MTBProject also uses it for a few purposes, actually.

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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMcL7 View Post
    You can flag the rides but when I looked into it there didn't seem to be any investigation into it and ultimately if the rider refused to accept it, the segment would stand. I guess the problem is people could maliciously report genuine rides to get them off the leaderboards.
    My experience is that flagging a ride automatically pulls it off the leaderboards and to get it back on, the owner of the flagged activity has to contest it. I have had rides flagged before for weird errors that gave me a better time than actually. And amusingly enough, one erroneous (weird gps time error) kom has stood for something like 6yrs. The trail is so terrible that it is rarely ridden and nobody cares that my kom says I rode it in zero time even though it is clear that something isn't right about it.

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  60. #60
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    Driving Stravatards crazy may be the one and only redeeming quality of MTB eBikes.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    Anyone else using the heat map to find new trails/routes to ride?

    https://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#4.5....67062/hot/all
    I do, found some good army bases to go check out
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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    Anyone else using the heat map to find new trails/routes to ride?

    https://labs.strava.com/heatmap/#4.5....67062/hot/all
    Land managers use it to easily find all the illegal trails.

    Rogue trail builders are literally mapping their trails for land managers.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  63. #63
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    I guess it depends where you are. In Colorado if you look at the leader boards they are all pros and very fast pros. I have no hope of ever coming close to the fast climbing times, there is a ridiculous difference. On downhills I can get closer to the top times (but still be over a minute off) and clicking on the profile of any of the guys who are ahead will show they race for XYZ factory team or something. I think any ebike would be easily flagged. I am still amazed that Levi Leipheimer holds the record for climbing the steepest road close to town as part of the US Pro Challenge finish even though he was busted for PED's not long after. I guess they don't flag PED's. I am more interested in beating the other old chubby guys I ride with anyway.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Land managers use it to easily find all the illegal trails.

    Rogue trail builders are literally mapping their trails for land managers.
    Yep, it's pretty amusing. I also use it to show hiker/runner groups that they are the primary users of illegal/non system trails. It's always eye opening for them since they often paint us as the bad guys.

    I'd be perfectly happy with whatever killed Strava, I'm not a fan.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Rogue trail builders are literally mapping their trails for land managers.
    No, the builders know this and are smart about it (private settings, or 'no strava rides') but it's the rest of the herd that has trouble with that... Once it's out of the bag, it's all the way out.

    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Driving Stravatards crazy may be the one and only redeeming quality of MTB eBikes.
    Oh, I like this angle. Pit the deep-seated hatred of e-bikes against the deep-seated hatred for Strava. The luddites will tear themselves apart from within and the rest of us can go back to riding our bikes instead of arguing about them.

  66. #66
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    Don't race, don't care.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDwayyo View Post
    No, the builders know this and are smart about it (private settings, or 'no strava rides') but it's the rest of the herd that has trouble with that...
    That was not the case in the instance I am familiar with. Pretty sure most of the people riding them were the ones building them. Heck, they held races on them.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  68. #68
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    I ride legal trails so I don't care who sees them, if strava helps to ferret out rogue trailbuilders it doesn't bother me any.
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  69. #69
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    Why is there an assumption that e-bikes are faster? I know of some in the area, and have no problem beating them on Strava segments, uphill or down.

    Anyone who pays attention knows who the fast guys in their area are, and they're not on ebikes. There seems to be a proliferance of garmins being used at the top of the leader boards, and I do wonder if any of them are downloading their data into some sort of e-doping program, but I don't wonder enough about it to care. Mostly I look at people in my groups, people I follow, age and weight classes, fastest times for the year, etc.

    I do hold KOMs from time to time, and I do flag people who's data is clearly bogus, but none of them have ever been ebikers, and none of them have ever contested it.


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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    Land managers use it to easily find all the illegal trails.

    Rogue trail builders are literally mapping their trails for land managers.
    Yup, and one of ours is adopting it into the system, and using the name from the Strava segment.

    I'm kind of conflicted on that. Nice to see that they're acknowledging the need for more advanced trails, and that there's not some sort of knee jerk authoritarian response to it, but adopting illegal trails might also be seen as a green light to illegal builders to do more of it.


    .

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by _CJ View Post
    Yup, and one of ours is adopting it into the system, and using the name from the Strava segment.

    I'm kind of conflicted on that. Nice to see that they're acknowledging the need for more advanced trails, and that there's not some sort of knee jerk authoritarian response to it, but adopting illegal trails might also be seen as a green light to illegal builders to do more of it.


    .
    I'm conflicted too. I rode a trail last night that turned off away from a very modest hill climb, which goes to the top. The trail at the top and another trail at the bottom both go in the same direction and arrive at the same point. This one's just straighter/shorter and a bit more roller-coaster like with its grade reversals. The trail at the bottom has a steeper climb. This new trail spidered off of a climb that was the most gentle route up, since it zig zagged a bit.

    It bothered me since I saw that hill's gentle gradient as a blank slate for a much more elaborate flow trail that was fast and didn't need use of brakes. I was picturing a trail like Mammoth's Recoil. I felt like there was a loss, since there's now spidering, rather than a higher quality well planned trail. The zig-zag climb was spidering too.

    Some fires exposed some game trails which turned into another trail in another part of the park, which drops a ton of elevation in pretty much a straight line, and leads to a hard left into a pile of rocks... should see the braking bumps leading into that turn. xD

    Erosion has turned the XC park into one where people bring bigger bikes, since buried rocks got exposed, main lines turned into pedal strike traps, and rollers turned into drops. XC bikes were getting beat up and broken. People now showing me lines I've not considered riding before, since their bigger bikes has them looking for bigger rock features and such. The trail's kind of being changed to fit the new bikes.
    We're all on the same ship, and it's sinking.

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