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  1. #1
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    Does anyone conceal carry when they ride?

    First off this is an honest question that I'm looking for legitimate answers too and not an anti gun speech.

    Backstory, a girl was just murdered in the park that I ride everyday. She was stabbed to death out in the open in the most random, violent and cruel way. The killer is still on the loose. I grew up on these trails and my parents house backs up to them so I have been riding these trails since I was 10 years old and know them extremely well.

    Lately I have been hearing stories about guys posing as injured on the trails and stealing bikes when you stop to help them out. That got me thinking but this murder put it all over the top. I've seen suspicious things back there, and by no means is it an unsafe place IMO, I wouldn't hesitate to ride alone and never have, but lately I've been thinking it wouldn't be a bad idea to be armed just in case. Let's face it. There are some crazy folks out there and you never know.

    So my question is to those who do carry how do you go about it safely? A loaded gun in a backpack can be a time bomb especially if you ride hard,fast and hit everything in sight. Is there a safe way to carry and ride? A holster you might recommend? A place to store your weapon for quick access?

    This is an honest question so please if you disagree I don't need to hear your opinions, I just want advice so I can decide how I can carry, if at all, responsibly and safely.

  2. #2
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    Holy crap, another one of these. Do a search, there are pages and pages of this. Don't need another one.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slash5 View Post
    Holy crap, another one of these. Do a search, there are pages and pages of this. Don't need another one.
    Yup!
    Screw the shuttle, I'm riding to the top. You're all worthless and weak!!!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slash5 View Post
    Holy crap, another one of these. Do a search, there are pages and pages of this. Don't need another one.
    Quote Originally Posted by BrentP View Post
    Yup!
    Thanks for the input and I did search and read them. Feel free to go onto other threads if you don't have any useful information to offer.

  5. #5
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    I've thought about it and just can't think of a good way/place to put a holster. If it's in a place that feels secure it is in my way. If it's in a place out of the way it doesn't feel very secure.
    I can't remember the name of it, but someone makes a chest holster that goes on a lot like a woman's bra and holds the gun against your chest. You have to reach down or up the front of your shirt to obtain the weapon. Not ideal, and you can't leave your jersey unzipped if it's hot, but it's an alternative.

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by h20-50 View Post
    ...So my question is to those who do carry how do you go about it safely? A loaded gun in a backpack can be a time bomb especially if you ride hard,fast and hit everything in sight. Is there a safe way to carry and ride? A holster you might recommend? A place to store your weapon for quick access?...
    IMO, you need to learn more about guns and decide these things for yourself. What state a gun is safe to carry in and what it will tolerate without discharging depends entirely on its function, design of the mechanism and safeties. For example, any gun without a round under the hammer cannot fire accidentally, except if it's a double action revolver, has a live round in the next chamber, and the trigger is somehow pulled through the entire double action stroke, which is pretty much impossible if it's carried in a holster that covers the trigger guard.

    A good concealed carry course and/or related books will cover all these things. The NRA has many good books on the subject. Also, inquire at your LGS (local gun store).

  7. #7
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    I carry my baby Glock on a lot of my rides.

    Like Lone Ranger stated, learn more and you decide.

  8. #8
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    I open carry on night rides and when going remote.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by hey_poolboy View Post
    I can't remember the name of it, but someone makes a chest holster that goes on a lot like a woman's bra and holds the gun against your chest. You have to reach down or up the front of your shirt to obtain the weapon. Not ideal, and you can't leave your jersey unzipped if it's hot, but it's an alternative.
    I'd be worried about sweating all over the gun and damaging it. Yes, I know, cleaning, etc. But I sweat a lot.

    I've thought about carrying in a frame bag, but it wouldn't be easily accessible which sort of defeats the whole point.

  10. #10
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    Numerous threads on this subject and here's one of the shorter ones. Read on....
    My Other Passion!!! Post yours too!

    Riding in remote areas does anyone pack protection with them?



    I personally would rather spend the rest of my life outside of prison so I don't carry. If you have it the chances are high you will use it and be sorry you did. I can see if you ride in Grizzly bear country but even then the chances of you being able to get to it in time to defend yourself are very slim.
    Quote Originally Posted by targnik View Post
    So I shoot off all full of bravado, hit this wee booter - grabbing some air, then I land - leading into a greasy rut.

  11. #11
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    If you have to ask how..........

  12. #12
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    Cleaning most handguns is not hard. I do more damage to my shoulder holster from sweat. Get a high quality gun like a Berretta or FN.

  13. #13
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    Does anyone conceal carry when they ride?

    Search button for the win. Here come the idiots on the horizon.


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  14. #14
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    Does anyone conceal carry when they ride?-yosemite-sam.jpg
    "We can always find excuses if we want to find them, but if we really want to do something, we have to just go."

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by targnik View Post
    So I shoot off all full of bravado, hit this wee booter - grabbing some air, then I land - leading into a greasy rut.

  16. #16
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    Almost every ride, some places I cant carry so it gets left behind. Not everyone has primo riding around where everyone on the trail is a saint. Seeing homeless camp's, people dealing drug's cause the trail's are between developements, or just the story's of people getting beat up or worst for some pocket change and a bike.

    You have to do research on what fit's you and your firearm of choice.
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb

  17. #17
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    I always carry a concealed weapon when I ride. But it's not a gun or a knife. Here's a hint - it's attached to my body.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobretti View Post
    I always carry a concealed weapon when I ride. But it's not a gun or a knife. Here's a hint - it's attached to my body.
    And very small for easy access.
    Lucky you!
    Quote Originally Posted by targnik View Post
    So I shoot off all full of bravado, hit this wee booter - grabbing some air, then I land - leading into a greasy rut.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    IMO, you need to learn more about guns and decide these things for yourself. What state a gun is safe to carry in and what it will tolerate without discharging depends entirely on its function, design of the mechanism and safeties. For example, any gun without a round under the hammer cannot fire accidentally, except if it's a double action revolver, has a live round in the next chamber, and the trigger is somehow pulled through the entire double action stroke, which is pretty much impossible if it's carried in a holster that covers the trigger guard.

    A good concealed carry course and/or related books will cover all these things. The NRA has many good books on the subject. Also, inquire at your LGS (local gun store).
    I grew up on guns, used one everyday for 5 years when I was in the military, have a CHL so I think I'm pretty well versed in that area. Carrying while riding a bike is different, and I wanted to see how other people did it as they don't make an AM holster, or an XC case, or a DH strap.

  20. #20
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    I woman I work with has a permit and carries when she rides alone. She usually has it in its holster in her jersey pocket. I did my research and opted for bear spray instead of a firearm. With it on the shoulder strap of my camelbak I can deploy it faster than a handgun, is more effective on large animals and in my opinion a better deterent against genetically challenged humans. Also, the chances of you killing yourself if it accidentally goes off are almost zero.

  21. #21
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    I carry in my camelbak. Not always but often. I also don't expect to get to it quickly but I would rather it be there if needed.
    I'm a mountain bike guide in southwest Utah

  22. #22
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    Does anyone conceal carry when they ride?

    I use bear spray... Wait.... Deja vu


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  23. #23
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    Violent crime is at record lows in America based on statistics. Depending upon how old you are, and if those statistics are true, most of America is safer than it was when you were a kid. Course that doesn't mean you shouldn't be carrying a weapon on a bike ride.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Undies View Post
    I'd be worried about sweating all over the gun and damaging it. Yes, I know, cleaning, etc. But I sweat a lot.

    I've thought about carrying in a frame bag, but it wouldn't be easily accessible which sort of defeats the whole point.
    carried an m-16 and a 38 for 13 months monsoons, crawling thru paddies. deer hunted in pouring rain,snowstorms. part of carrying is cleaning. lost a cleaning brush one time. so do I brush my teeth or use my tooth brush to clean my weapons. found out a finger and tooth paste will kinda clean your teeth. but back to your question. someone mentioned bear spray on his camelback. that seems like an excellent idea. if it'll deter a bear I'm sure it would deter any animals you'll meet on your trails. I'm thinking about getting some now but may have a hard time finding it in fl.

  25. #25
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    So of you peeps that carry (either a gun or bear spray) when you ride, how many of you have actually had to use it? Or is it just to make you feel better?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brockwan View Post
    I use bear spray... Wait.... Deja vu


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    Quote Originally Posted by Brockwan View Post
    Search button for the win. Here come the idiots on the horizon.


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    yep

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    So of you peeps that carry (either a gun or bear spray) when you ride, how many of you have actually had to use it? Or is it just to make you feel better?
    never had to use my fire extinguisher but.......... Just to make it clear, I don't carry when I ride

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobretti View Post
    I always carry a concealed weapon when I ride. But it's not a gun or a knife. Here's a hint - it's attached to my body.
    Like this?
    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/4kU0XCVey_U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  29. #29
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    This is good!

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slash5 View Post
    Holy crap, another one of these. Do a search, there are pages and pages of this. Don't need another one.
    Like he said, use the Search Button!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  31. #31
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    I carry sometimes, but only when I want to do some plinkin. Glock 26 fits in my saddle bag pretty nice.

    There was one time I was in the mountain at twilight by myself though and I'm almost positive I had a few wild dogs screwing with me, I was wishing I had it on that ride. Creeped me out.

    We call them coyotes around here, they're a pretty big problem. Friends of mine that hunt tell me they can take a deer down, although I've never heard of them going after a human, let alone on a bike.

  32. #32
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    I carry my Glock 19 quite a bit when I ride. I put the gun in a small kydex holster and put the whole shebang thing in my Camelbak. I use the holster to keep the trigger covered since I keep one in the chamber.

    Access isn't very quick, but it beats the hell out of having nothing if the need for it ever arises.

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    I carry my LCP everywhere with me, even riding. I keep it in the cargo pocket of my baggies inside a holster, condition 1 at all times.

  34. #34
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    I always carry a gun with me. I will never be a victim like that. Guys I work with, that very well should have been carrying, have been robbed, and in one case held at gunpoint and driven to ATM's to withdraw money. The police will rarely be there the second that you need them, it's up to you to protect yourself and your family.

    I've had things go very wrong around me and I have been glad that I had a gun and others with guns around me that knew how to use them. Same reason I carry medical equipment. I don't need to preach on medical stuff, but I have had multiple people shot very close to me.

    My world doesn't revolve around the "I've never used it, must not need it" line of thinking that some have. I know the reality of it all. I carry a Glock in a Raven VanGuard II inside a Hill People Gear runner's pack.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Ro$$ View Post
    I carry my Glock 19 quite a bit when I ride. I put the gun in a small kydex holster and put the whole shebang thing in my Camelbak. I use the holster to keep the trigger covered since I keep one in the chamber.

    Access isn't very quick, but it beats the hell out of having nothing if the need for it ever arises.
    So I have to ask, where the heck are you riding that there may be a need arising, and what is it exactly that you are scared of?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by VitaVelNex View Post
    I always carry a gun with me. I will never be a victim like that. Guys I work with, that very well should have been carrying, have been robbed, and in one case held at gunpoint and driven to ATM's to withdraw money. The police will rarely be there the second that you need them, it's up to you to protect yourself and your family.

    I've had things go very wrong around me and I have been glad that I had a gun and others with guns around me that knew how to use them. Same reason I carry medical equipment. I don't need to preach on medical stuff, but I have had multiple people shot very close to me.

    My world doesn't revolve around the "I've never used it, must not need it" line of thinking that some have. I know the reality of it all. I carry a Glock in a Raven VanGuard II inside a Hill People Gear runner's pack.

    So they were riding their mountain bike, got held at gunpoint and driven to ATM's to withdraw money? Extreme biking to a whole new level - Red Bull rampage has nothing to your trails.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by powpig2002 View Post
    never had to use my fire extinguisher but.......... Just to make it clear, I don't carry when I ride
    You carry a fire extinguisher when you ride? I guess there is a chance you could come across a wildfire - at least that is a reason (more then any other I have heard yet)

  38. #38
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    I carry when camping. But usually for target practice.

    Should you run into Yogi, bear spray is much better than a hand gun.

    Chances of needing against a 2 legged predators are slim.

    Then again, better to carry and not need it, than need it and end up being carried by six.
    Last edited by 06HokieMTB; 01-05-2014 at 08:43 AM.

  39. #39
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    Can't let an isolated incident scare you, plus the killer was caught. Never heard of anybody pretending to be hurt to steal anybodies bike at O.P. but you never know. If you're worried about stuff like that don't stop and help anybody out. Best way to stay out of a trouble is to avoid trouble.

    Also according to SAPD O.P. is the safest park in the city and data shows a 35% decrease in violent crimes in city parks over the last two years. Carrying a gun just in case around a park with many others and houses along a lot of the trails seems like it might be asking for more trouble than it's worth. What if you started popping off shots and hit an innocent bystander out for a jog, somebody hanging out in their back yard, biking on the trails, etc. It's a big park but not that big. A stray bullet could unintentionally cause more harm than good. If you're worried about your safety carry a knife. I think you should also consider the safety of others before carrying out on the trails.

    Its not like the park is on a seedy side of town either. The park is surrounded by nice neighborhoods and an influential college. Yes there will be things that happen, that's just life but I've never felt threatened enough to need a gun in O.P.
    "The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks."
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  40. #40
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    If statistics are any indication, you should conceal and carry around friends, neighbors, and family members because the greatest likelihood of personal harm will come from someone you know. Statistics like the ones below are why I was packing this holiday season. Sure, the chances I'd need a weapon at the Thanksgiving dinner table are slim, but better to not end up a number. And Christmas parties? Better to carry and not need it because my Auntie gets all crazy on egg nog:

    In 2010, strangers committed about 38% of nonfatal violent crimes, including rape/sexual assault, robbery, aggravated assault, and simple assault.

    From 1993 to 2008, among homicides reported to the FBI for which the victim-offender relationship was known, between 21% and 27% of homicides were committed by strangers and between 73% and 79% were committed by offenders known to the victims.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    So they were riding their mountain bike, got held at gunpoint and driven to ATM's to withdraw money? Extreme biking to a whole new level - Red Bull rampage has nothing to your trails.
    No they weren't riding their bike, I was giving examples of things going bad. Just because I haven't needed it on any previous rides, doesn't mean I might not need it in the future. I have never needed the spare quart of oil I keep in my vehicle just in case. I never needed my spare tire until one day on the highway driving to work, and I kept that around for 5 years before it came of use.

    If you don't feel the need or think its dumb to carry a weapon because someone didn't need it mountain biking, then that's fine. That's you're decision. I'm a cop in a larger city and have seen completely innocent people murdered, raped, robbed, paralyzed, whatever who were just minding their own business doing things they had enjoyed hundreds of times.

    Mountain bike trails are generally around wooded areas, a lot of meth labs are also secluded in these areas. I've dealt with marijuana grow fields with camps in wooded areas, just a 100 yards away from parks. A smaller agency around me tried stopping a kid in a car on Christmas or so, kid shot at the cop, took off in the car, and hid in nearby woods. They eventually found him, and had a gun fight with him where two cops were shot and the kid was killed. This was near a state park with a lot of trails. Chris Dorner also hid in the woods, where I'm sure people have mountain biked before.

    I have also never needed my helmet mountain biking, but I wear it.

    The reality is, there are people out there that do not care at all about you, who you'd leave behind, what your plans were after riding, nothing. They simply want what you have because they want more, or to score more dope. There are plenty of cases of completely random acts of violence and the mindset of "I've never needed X while doing Y, so I must not need X" is ignorant.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by h20-50 View Post
    The killer is still on the loose.
    If it happened at your favourite trail Schnabel Park, the killer has been caught.

    http://www.kens5.com/news/SAPD-Man-a...238711121.html

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    Think if I needed to pack heat while riding. I'd be finding a different place to live and ride.

    In bear and mtn lion country. I carry bear spray.

  44. #44
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    With the lack of privacy these days, and the way information can be used against you, I'm sure as hell not going to state whether I carry a gun with me or not.
    "I can almost smell the alcohol oozing from that post."

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    A global map of winds. Pretty cool.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 006_007 View Post
    So I have to ask, where the heck are you riding that there may be a need arising, and what is it exactly that you are scared of?
    The isolated back woods of Louisiana. Not that scared. Just reasonably cautious. I'll go out of my way to avoid trouble, will never pick a fight, am affable and pleasant to everyone but one day I may get into a situation where talking or fleeing is impossible.

    Many of you must lead very sheltered lives or never leave your gated communities if you think trouble won't find you because you mind your own business.

    My M9 isn't heavy, it's easy to clean. Holds 15 rounds. There is no penalty for carrying it. Not even breaking any laws because I open carry.

  46. #46
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    I carry my .44 in my frame bag when I'm hunting. We get bothered by mountain lions quite a bit, so I got a license, which essentially makes it simpler than going to court if I kill one without a license, plus I get to keep the pelt. Two prime lion pelts will pay for a custom steel Coconino frame, as a point of reference.
    I ride with the best dogs.




  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    Many of you must lead very sheltered lives or never leave your gated communities if you think trouble won't find you because you mind your own business.
    Agreed. It doesn't matter who you are, where you are, or how nice you think the area is. It doesn't have to be a bad area for you to be a victim.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsieb View Post
    I carry my .44 in my frame bag when I'm hunting. We get bothered by mountain lions quite a bit, so I got a license, which essentially makes it simpler than going to court if I kill one without a license, plus I get to keep the pelt. Two prime lion pelts will pay for a custom steel Coconino frame, as a point of reference.
    Might I ask how many mountain lions you have managed to bring down since you got a license? And when you say you are bothered by them, what exactly does that entail? Just interested is all...
    It's all Here. Now.

  49. #49
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    ...as for the subject matter of this thread, it has all been said before, and nothing anyone has ever said in any of the myriad threads on the subject has caused me even the minutest desire to rethink my view on the issue. I guess that makes me the same as all the others on the other side of the fence! Plus ca change!
    It's all Here. Now.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    Many of you must lead very sheltered lives or never leave your gated communities if you think trouble won't find you because you mind your own business.
    .
    Not a sheltered life at all - its called a Canadian life.

  51. #51
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    Please don't let the gif I posted be anything other than humor. I am an avid 2nd amendment supporter and respect anyones right to carry if they feel the need. Honestly, I am carrying about everywhere besides my bike. I just can't see the practicality of carrying while riding (unless on a multi-day remote ride). I live in the Washington DC area and I could easily ride in places where a gun is needed, but I avoid those places at all costs. It's not the wildlife I am fearful of either. Lots of people get frazzled trying to comprehend the need for a firearm, especially those who have never used one. All I can say is: if you are carrying anywhere, please, please take a firearms safety course and learn the laws for your area. It is the ignorant ones who give the legit ones a bad name. No one EVER talks about what good a gun can be. The only gun talk you will hear are the incidents where someone did bad with a gun. Sadly, that is what makes or breaks those "unfamiliar" with firearms.
    "We can always find excuses if we want to find them, but if we really want to do something, we have to just go."

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Might I ask how many mountain lions you have managed to bring down since you got a license? And when you say you are bothered by them, what exactly does that entail? Just interested is all...
    I haven't brought any lions down yet, got my lion license in October, but was talking about deer hunting in the previous post. Winter is a better time to aggressively hunt them, like calling with a mechanical struggling fawn decoy. At our cabin/bike house, they are always around if you look hard enough. In places where they are hunted they are afraid of people but are still curious. The pic was taken with a cell phone from a bike trail at 20', fwiw. Pics are hard to come by, there are many encounters reported for every actual pic. Lions need to learn that mtbers are not prey, even shooting at them will teach them that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sodak View Post
    Please don't let the gif I posted be anything other than humor. I am an avid 2nd amendment supporter and respect anyones right to carry if they feel the need. Honestly, I am carrying about everywhere besides my bike. I just can't see the practicality of carrying while riding (unless on a multi-day remote ride). I live in the Washington DC area and I could easily ride in places where a gun is needed, but I avoid those places at all costs. It's not the wildlife I am fearful of either. Lots of people get frazzled trying to comprehend the need for a firearm, especially those who have never used one. All I can say is: if you are carrying anywhere, please, please take a firearms safety course and learn the laws for your area. It is the ignorant ones who give the legit ones a bad name. No one EVER talks about what good a gun can be. The only gun talk you will hear are the incidents where someone did bad with a gun. Sadly, that is what makes or breaks those "unfamiliar" with firearms.
    There are plenty of 2nd Amendment supporters who are unnerved by the push by the gun lobby, law enforcement, and the militarized to get the average person to conceal and carry. I know a few of the folks in law enforcement and military/ex-military/militia-minded, and there is a concerted effort to scare people into gun ownership using the simple logic…better not get caught without. And in our unnerving world, the tactic is working like a champ, even when violent crime is at comparative levels with the early 1960's. When my little sister and my niece--who haven't hunted a day in their lives, who live in one of the safest states, in one of the safest towns in that state, and who 99.9999999% of their time never find themselves outside shouting distance of quick help--get conceal and carry licenses…well, what's to say. My niece recounted how she carried for the first time out to pick up the newspaper from the curb. I know plenty of other people too. And they all say the same thing: probably won't need it, but don't want to get caught without it. It's like a mantra.

    Point being: I'd like to double down on what Sodak says above. If you're going to own a gun, get training, know the weapon inside and out, know how to handle the weapon properly, and don't carry until you've made yourself and expert. You gotta earn the right.

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    It goes beyond training. Qualification courses for concealed carry permits are a joke. I have been around these shooters when they're being told to look at the front sight to aim, they will tilt the weapon up and look at the sight, then send a round into the ceiling of the indoor range. Getting a NRA teaching certification isn't that hard, neither is a concealed carry training certification.

    Legitimate training and the proper mindset is what it needed. In the real world, things are not a static target that will stand still for a minute for you to shoot into. There will be plenty of other factors like them moving, you moving, potentially other people around, etc. Anyone that carries or uses a gun is accountable for any and every round sent downrange.

    That being said, most people do not understand how quickly violent encounters happen. When it happens, it can seem like a lifetime, but those 5 minutes you think passed, was more like 20 seconds. If you're going to carry a weapon to defend yourself and your family, you need to be sure you're going to use it. You can't second guess yourself with it. If someone puts you in the situation, then give them everything they deserve.

    Paul Howe, who is a great instructor said, "We must be able to apply the appropriate degree of force and discrimination, demonstrating a complete business like attention to detail and if necessary, we must be able to kill with ruthless efficiency."

    That can appear morbid, but like I have said before, there are plenty of people out there who do not care at all about you or your loved ones. It is up to you to take personal responsibility for you and your loved ones lives. Thinking that you live in a safe area and it won't happen to you won't cut it.

  55. #55
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    Hell no. I can see no reason at all to carry a gun when I ride.

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    I use my handlebar as self-protection when I'm riding. I designed and built a quick-release stem and shifter/brake clamps, so when the need arises, I can quickly and easily detach my handlebar from the bike and use it as a makeshift bludgeon. I use an aluminum bar so it doesn't break when I'm bashing the attacker's face in. But if you want the carbon to asplode and throw splinters into your attacker's face, then carbon is a great choice.

    Give me a PM, OP, if you want the plans for that quick-release stem. I know it's not concealed carry, but it's a lot easier and lighter than carrying a gun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VitaVelNex View Post
    Thinking that you live in a safe area and it won't happen to you won't cut it.
    I like most of what you say about legit training and proper mindset, VVN, but most people understand that being alive comes with some dangers, even under ideal circumstances. Your line above is still a pretty piss poor reason for someone to arm her/himself. Even you would admit, were you to use some candor, that there are some people you have met, even given proper training, who have no business carrying a firearm. And having a pistol doesn't guarantee a person much by way of avoiding violence either. In your line of work, you see plenty of randomness, but I expect you also see plenty of instances where firearms didn't amount to much either. I hope you will consider adding some version of this line to your reasoning: Deciding to carry a weapon is a very personal choice that should be carefully considered. No person should carry out of fear.

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    I wasn't saying they should carry out of fear and everyone should carry. There are plenty of cops I am glad I have never had things go south with. Frankly I wouldn't trust them to ID the proper target, let alone shoot in the same direction.

    What you quoted was me saying the ignorance of thinking that just because it's a nice area doesn't mean you can't become a victim. Everyone thinks it will never happen to them, until it does. They will either be prepared for it, or they won't.

    I sit and pray every day that my friends will be safe. However I've seen and treated some that have been shot, know some that will never go back to what they love doing, and some that gave the ultimate sacrifice and will never see their families again. The bottom line is, you either accept the reality of it and train to potentially avoid and overcome, or you pretend it doesn't exist and go about your day.

  59. #59
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    I have used mine. Glad I had it. Saved my life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VitaVelNex View Post
    I wasn't saying they should carry out of fear and everyone should carry. There are plenty of cops I am glad I have never had things go south with. Frankly I wouldn't trust them to ID the proper target, let alone shoot in the same direction.

    What you quoted was me saying the ignorance of thinking that just because it's a nice area doesn't mean you can't become a victim. Everyone thinks it will never happen to them, until it does. They will either be prepared for it, or they won't.

    I sit and pray every day that my friends will be safe. However I've seen and treated some that have been shot, know some that will never go back to what they love doing, and some that gave the ultimate sacrifice and will never see their families again. The bottom line is, you either accept the reality of it and train to potentially avoid and overcome, or you pretend it doesn't exist and go about your day.
    Ah, I see you more clearly now. Very thoughtful. Thanks for clarifying.

  61. #61
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    Revealing whether I carry or not defeats the purpose of concealed carry.
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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Danger View Post
    There are plenty of 2nd Amendment supporters who are unnerved by the push by the gun lobby, law enforcement, and the militarized to get the average person to conceal and carry. I know a few of the folks in law enforcement and military/ex-military/militia-minded, and there is a concerted effort to scare people into gun ownership using the simple logic…better not get caught without. And in our unnerving world, the tactic is working like a champ, even when violent crime is at comparative levels with the early 1960's. When my little sister and my niece--who haven't hunted a day in their lives, who live in one of the safest states, in one of the safest towns in that state, and who 99.9999999% of their time never find themselves outside shouting distance of quick help--get conceal and carry licenses…well, what's to say. My niece recounted how she carried for the first time out to pick up the newspaper from the curb. I know plenty of other people too. And they all say the same thing: probably won't need it, but don't want to get caught without it. It's like a mantra.

    Point being: I'd like to double down on what Sodak says above. If you're going to own a gun, get training, know the weapon inside and out, know how to handle the weapon properly, and don't carry until you've made yourself and expert. You gotta earn the right.

    Well said!
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  63. #63
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    Unfukkinbelievable that anyone would feel the need to carry a weapon when going to pick up a newspaper... unfukkinbelievable that the idea of a society with everyone carrying lethal weapons is desirable to anyone. Personally I subscribe to the 'mantra' that arming people is not a valid answer to the problems of violent crime. It is a temporary solution at best, and has many ancillary problems that are unacceptable to me. I also cannot imagine the carnage that would ensue if you put even more guns into the hands of a population with the level of mental issues that we all enjoy. And yes, I include many people who feel the need to arm themselves with a deadly weapon amongst those with mental health problems. I am sure there are a very few who may be capable of handling a weapon with a measure of responsibility, and like with any skill, there are good and bad examples of it, with the majority of people never rising above average in ability at best, even with training.
    As for carrying a gun on a bike ride, that to me is a ridiculous prospect. It is well-documented that for 4 legged creatures a gun is close to useless, certainly a gun that is in the hands of a rider making a snap call on its use, and against the human threat, for me my bike is not worth the thought of living with any alternative following the use of any firearm in anger. There are very few scenarios I can envisage where this might be something I could live with.
    For those of you who live in as much fear as you so obviously do, whether you are honest about the fact or not, I suggest you get help
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    I also cannot imagine the carnage that would ensue if you put even more guns into the hands of a population with the level of mental issues that we all enjoy.
    Imagining the carnage is all you can do, because it doesn't seem to take place in the real world. Gun ownership goes up all the time, more and more CCW permits are issued in more and more states and countries, yet violent crime seems to only decline.

    I'd just have to take your word that rivers of blood on the streets is right around the corner, but I rather not live in fear.

    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    For those of you who live in as much fear as you so obviously do, whether you are honest about the fact or not, I suggest you get help
    Shall we apply this to your possible fear of other people carrying firearms, or rather not guess peoples' motives and mental state over the Internet?

    In case it matters, I don't carry any kind of weapons. Not even a small pocket knife.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Unfukkinbelievable that anyone would feel the need to carry a weapon when going to pick up a newspaper... unfukkinbelievable that the idea of a society with everyone carrying lethal weapons is desirable to anyone. Personally I subscribe to the 'mantra' that arming people is not a valid answer to the problems of violent crime. It is a temporary solution at best, and has many ancillary problems that are unacceptable to me. I also cannot imagine the carnage that would ensue if you put even more guns into the hands of a population with the level of mental issues that we all enjoy. And yes, I include many people who feel the need to arm themselves with a deadly weapon amongst those with mental health problems. I am sure there are a very few who may be capable of handling a weapon with a measure of responsibility, and like with any skill, there are good and bad examples of it, with the majority of people never rising above average in ability at best, even with training.
    As for carrying a gun on a bike ride, that to me is a ridiculous prospect. It is well-documented that for 4 legged creatures a gun is close to useless, certainly a gun that is in the hands of a rider making a snap call on its use, and against the human threat, for me my bike is not worth the thought of living with any alternative following the use of any firearm in anger. There are very few scenarios I can envisage where this might be something I could live with.
    For those of you who live in as much fear as you so obviously do, whether you are honest about the fact or not, I suggest you get help

    I think there have been very few, if any, instances of CCW permit holders causing any trouble at all. Probably the number is statistically insignificant.

    Law abiding citizens go through the trouble of getting permits and are, by definition, law-abiding citizens. You don't get a CCW permit on a whim or to go on a shooting spree; that's usually criminals or lunatics who don't even consider the need to go to that trouble.

    As for shooting somebody for a bike, I'm with you. There is nothing I own worth shooting anyone over. Somebody want to attack me, however....well...how much injury are you willing to tolerate in the name of tolerance?

    My girlfriend carries a gun when she runs. A few women have been attacked and one raped while running. We live in the country where the sheriff is twenty minutes away at best. Does she have mental health problems?

    I'm sure she'd rather live with the consequences of shooting a thug than of being raped. And no jury in the state would convict her, either.
    Last edited by Ailuropoda; 01-06-2014 at 05:04 PM.

  66. #66
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    Does anyone conceal carry when they ride?

    I carry canned string cheese in case I see a Bigfoot. If I see them I hurl it at them with a bunch of ritz crackers and I'm out. They frickin love the stuff.


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  67. #67
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    Does anyone conceal carry when they ride?
    Well I just assumed that a lot of people do.... but then I figured out you guys were talking about guns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    It is well-documented that for 4 legged creatures a gun is close to useless
    Really? What would you call hunting? Or in your ridiculous red herring point did you mean large predators? Still stupid.

    The one time I used my gun I had to put down a sheepdog that was literally coming through my frame to get me. Yes, I used every other option at my disposal. It had to happen and my 13 year old son behind me was terrified. I don't regret that at all. I dare the bleeding hearts to tell me how wrong I was.
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  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saul Lumikko View Post
    Imagining the carnage is all you can do, because it doesn't seem to take place in the real world. Gun ownership goes up all the time, more and more CCW permits are issued in more and more states and countries, yet violent crime seems to only decline.

    I'd just have to take your word that rivers of blood on the streets is right around the corner, but I rather not live in fear.


    Shall we apply this to your possible fear of other people carrying firearms, or rather not guess peoples' motives and mental state over the Internet?

    In case it matters, I don't carry any kind of weapons. Not even a small pocket knife.
    I take your points Saul, and I would point out that there have been several episodes in the last few years of carnage in the streets/movie theaters/schools/ take your pick. I believe this is a measure of the dysfunction in our society that I think to deny is irresponsible. I am afraid that I look to long term cures rather than short term solutions, and I believe that arming the populace is a short term solution whose negatives will outweigh the benefits. That is just my opinion based on what I see on the news, in the written media etc. I do not deny that there are many people who carry that are responsible citizens, but I still cannot get over the truth for me which is that the more guns you have out there, the more episodes of needless violence will occur.
    I know many disagree with me, as is obvious here, but there are probably equally as many who agree. My beliefs are only fear-based inasmuch as they are from a desire to see us all live in a society as free from the fear to feel a need to defend oneself with deadly force as is possible. To me, that entails education, more focus on dealing with mental health issues, and more encouragement of values based on altruism rather than personal gain at the expense of the rest of society. Then I am pretty sure we would start to see longer term benefits in the way we live and co-exist that would eventually see the end to any need to carry a gun, concealed or otherwise.
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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Unfukkinbelievable that anyone would feel the need to carry a weapon when going to pick up a newspaper...
    To be fair to my niece, Rocker, she recounted the story in kind of a joking way...like she was kind of nervous about carrying so she took the gun out to get the newspaper as sort of a trial run. I just think the story illustrates that the propaganda to urge people to carry is very effective and leading to absurdities. Gun ownership/conceal & carry has become kind of an "it" thing to do in many suburban/rural places where folks might not ordinarily have. I grew up in Western gun culture. Every truck with a shotgun or rifle, so lots of guns. Nowdays, and what's new is, folks are hunting less and buying military style weapons to blow shiz up, and conceal and carry weapons to feel empowered. Something for many bored folks to talk/brag to their friends about like they would a brand new toy for the garage. Yes, it's completely asinine.

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    In the case of using a handgun in defense of large cats, while I agree that if you are riding alone, it is useless. Even if you have it right there in some kind of handlebar holster. Becasue I'm certain you would never know a big cat was stalking you until you felt it sink it's teeth into your neck.

    But what if you are riding with someone else, and as luck would have it, your riding partner is the one attacked. You happen to have a Glock .40 in your camelbak. As your buddy is being mauled, you could retrieve the weapon and approach the cat and carefully place a round or three into the side of it's head or neck. Or you could haul ass and save yourself, your choice.

    Your buddy may or may not want you to 'take the shot', but if he's being mauled, I'm guessing he is all for 'take the shot'.
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    You're anti gun until you need one. Its ironic that you will call on a pro gunner, every time, when the shit hits the fan though.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by net wurker View Post
    In the case of using a handgun in defense of large cats, while I agree that if you are riding alone, it is useless. Even if you have it right there in some kind of handlebar holster. Becasue I'm certain you would never know a big cat was stalking you until you felt it sink it's teeth into your neck.

    But what if you are riding with someone else, and as luck would have it, your riding partner is the one attacked. You happen to have a Glock .40 in your camelbak. As your buddy is being mauled, you could retrieve the weapon and approach the cat and carefully place a round or three into the side of it's head or neck. Or you could haul ass and save yourself, your choice.

    Your buddy may or may not want you to 'take the shot', but if he's being mauled, I'm guessing he is all for 'take the shot'.
    You obviously have no first hand experience with mountain lions, so your certainties don't mean much. In any case, I'm not afraid of them, although I respect their capabilities. I'm hunting them, or at least equipping myself to take advantage of a serendipitous encounter. You have no idea of my capabilities or experience.
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  74. #74
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    You're right, I have no experience with lions. And I may have thrown the word 'certain' around carelessly. But I meant in the context of bouncing along on a mountain bike, not in a situation where you are activley seeking them out to hunt them or encounter them.

    Even still, just be careful out there....I have read they can be pretty stealthy. I have also read they can be pretty good fighters, espicially against un-armed humans.

    Of course, I did read it on the Internet, and you know what they say about things you read on the Internet.
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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by net wurker View Post
    You're right, I have no experience with lions. And I may have thrown the word 'certain' around carelessly. But I meant in the context of bouncing along on a mountain bike, not in a situation where you are activley seeking them out to hunt them or encounter them.

    Even still, just be careful out there....I have read they can be pretty stealthy. I have also read they can be pretty good fighters, espicially against un-armed humans.

    Of course, I did read it on the Internet, and you know what they say about things you read on the Internet.
    The most common encounters we have (other than seeing a lion disappearing across the road from a vehicle) are surprise encounters where the lion departs the encounter soon thereafter, or spotting a curious lion in relatively close proximity and it departs when discovered (or a shot fired over it's head, but that was a turkey hunter who was actively calling as he moved). In cases where it is not startled into fleeing immediately, there is time to retrieve a weapon from a bike or back pack and wait for a good killing shot to present itself. In a typical encounter around here a lion does not attack you from above without warning by breaking your neck. It's not that dramatic, but I suppose could be deadly if you imitate a prey object well enough. Best thing is to stand your ground, like a friend of mine did when a lion grabbed her dog's face and started suffocating it. She yelled and threw rocks till it left, saved her dog.
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  76. #76
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    I'm glad the lady could save her dog!

    But isn't the best thing to do is to "use the black arrow like a spear"????
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    Who is this "carry", and why should she/he be concealed while ridden?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleBitey View Post
    Who is this "carry"?
    Jim Carrey

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleBitey View Post
    Why should he be concealed while riding?
    Cuz the mountain lions are out to get him. If they don't see him they'll leave him alone.
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    I have never seen a need to carry a gun when biking....

    The only reason I can see was if I needed to ride through a community with very dangerous people regularly....and in all likelyhood I would fugure out another way around the problem.

    Animals and wildlife are not a problem and I really don't want to kill them anyway.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by net wurker View Post
    Jim Carrey

    He needs to be concealed 6ft under.
    "We can always find excuses if we want to find them, but if we really want to do something, we have to just go."

  81. #81
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    Or just let the mountain lions have at him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by net wurker View Post
    Or just let the mountain lions have at him.
    Not a hope if Jim's Carreying... HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
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  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    I would point out that there have been several episodes in the last few years of carnage in the streets/movie theaters/schools/ take your pick.

    My beliefs are only fear-based inasmuch as they are from a desire to see us all live in a society as free from the fear to feel a need to defend oneself with deadly force as is possible. To me, that entails education, more focus on dealing with mental health issues, and more encouragement of values based on altruism rather than personal gain at the expense of the rest of society. Then I am pretty sure we would start to see longer term benefits in the way we live and co-exist that would eventually see the end to any need to carry a gun, concealed or otherwise.
    I agree wholeheartedly about the direction of society you describe. If the society really is functioning well enough for crime to drop radically, I think fewer and fewer people would bother to carry and no-one would need to talk about banning them.

    A bit more about fear: if we set aside the deadly potential side-effects of firearms and only look at the motivation of those who carry, my experience is that for most people it's really as simple as having fire alarms and extinguishers at home or seatbelts in their car. Or a helmet while riding a bicycle. I don't think people who take these precautions live in constant fear of something awful happening and it's the same for carrying. Of course the comparison can't be made directly because I've never heard of anyone shooting up a mall with a fire alarm or bicycle helmet, but malicious intent of a criminal has very little to do with the good intent of a regular person.

    As for the examples of carnage in public places, to my knowledge none of the notorious cases were CCW permit holders, so I don't see the relevance to carrying specifically. As a further point, there have been shooting rampages in lots of countries with far stricter firearms legislation. For example Finland, where the amount of public massacre victims is higher than in the US (per capita of course), but carrying a defensive weapon of any kind is totally banned for civilians.

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    I also think there is some confusion here in regard to why you'd want to carry a gun while riding. It's the same confusion (or purposeful obfuscation) when people confuse the second amendment with hunting.

    The second amendment has nothing to do with hunting. Likewise I don't carry a gun when I ride in remote areas out of fear of animals. Sure we have some feral hogs but my primary motivation is the possibility of encountering one of our local psychopaths.

    There are people out there, you know, who will kill you for fun...it is only the fear of getting caught that keeps them in check. I see them in my Emergency Department all the time. Come in for some psychiatric complaint or another and you can tell they are amoral and soul-less. The kind of people who will kill you and then eat your lunch sitting on your body.

    If you don't think they are out there you are mistaken.

    Additionally, many of you lead very sheltered lives but you also may not know that the civil society we once enjoyed is breaking down rapidly.

  85. #85
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    In virtually all states that I'm aware of where it is reasonably possible to get a concealed carry permit, you need to take a course. I heartily recommend taking the course to anyone and everyone, whether pro, anti, or ambivalent. No matter your stance, you'll know better what you're talking about after taking the course.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    I also think there is some confusion here in regard to why you'd want to carry a gun while riding. It's the same confusion (or purposeful obfuscation) when people confuse the second amendment with hunting.

    The second amendment has nothing to do with hunting. Likewise I don't carry a gun when I ride in remote areas out of fear of animals. Sure we have some feral hogs but my primary motivation is the possibility of encountering one of our local psychopaths.

    There are people out there, you know, who will kill you for fun...it is only the fear of getting caught that keeps them in check. I see them in my Emergency Department all the time. Come in for some psychiatric complaint or another and you can tell they are amoral and soul-less. The kind of people who will kill you and then eat your lunch sitting on your body.

    If you don't think they are out there you are mistaken.

    Additionally, many of you lead very sheltered lives but you also may not know that the civil society we once enjoyed is breaking down rapidly.
    Ailuropoda, I can see that you are at the sharp end when it comes to dealing with the detritus of our society, and I respect your opinions that are obviously based on bitter experience. However, I just cannot agree with the 'prepper' mentality that is dictating to you that society is breaking down, so 'to arms!'... This, I believe is an alarmist and blinkered way to view our society and its issues. We are a great deal better off in my view than in most historical periods; we have better life expectancy, better standards of living in many places, and major conflicts are less common that at any time in our collective histories. If we can prioritise and address further burning issues that are affecting our societies to their detriment: poverty, homelessness, addiction, a lack of any spiritual connection, (not Religion), amongst other things, I believe that we would then see a further huge reduction in crime of all kinds, and consequently these 'discussions' would become redundant.

    Easy right??!?
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  87. #87
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    Be sure to obtain a CCW Permit, if required!

    I'd recommend an IWB "belly" holster in a 45ACP compact S/A or a 44 Special or 45 Long Colt compact revolver then buy your practice ammo in bulk so you have enough to practice to be a safer and effective live saver.

    Owning a guitar does not make you proficient in playing a guitar, so to speak.

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  88. #88
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    Does anyone conceal carry when they ride?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ailuropoda View Post
    I also think there is some confusion here in regard to why you'd want to carry a gun while riding. It's the same confusion (or purposeful obfuscation) when people confuse the second amendment with hunting.

    The second amendment has nothing to do with hunting. Likewise I don't carry a gun when I ride in remote areas out of fear of animals. Sure we have some feral hogs but my primary motivation is the possibility of encountering one of our local psychopaths.

    There are people out there, you know, who will kill you for fun...it is only the fear of getting caught that keeps them in check. I see them in my Emergency Department all the time. Come in for some psychiatric complaint or another and you can tell they are amoral and soul-less. The kind of people who will kill you and then eat your lunch sitting on your body.

    If you don't think they are out there you are mistaken.

    Additionally, many of you lead very sheltered lives but you also may not know that the civil society we once enjoyed is breaking down rapidly.
    Pompous much? Geez.

  89. #89
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    Just a friendly reminder.

    The police can not protect you and your people: Nor any of the clueless "sheep-like" posters here. Stay happy and be appropriately prepared to save life, think like a "shepard."

    In my State I am always legally prepared and as far as I know have not troubled any considerate people.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailNut View Post
    Just a friendly reminder.

    The police can not protect you and your people: Nor any of the clueless "sheep-like" posters here. Stay happy and be approximately prepared to save life, think like a "shepard."

    In my State I am always legally prepared and as far as I know have not troubled any considerate people.
    Why thank you for your protection kind sir! Baaaa Baaa Baaa!
    It's all Here. Now.

  91. #91
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Why thank you for your protection kind sir! Baaaa Baaa Baaa!
    You are not my people: I may be a decent witness, perhaps, but doubtful I will help remove that man behind you, making you bay...

    Life is hard, more so if you are stupid.

    Have a good one.
    “Everyday is a good day,” from the Blue Cliff Records, Yun-men (864-949 AD).

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    Why thank you for your protection kind sir! Baaaa Baaa Baaa!
    Am I the only one who is usually more fearful of adamant concealed-carry "shepard" spouting off all the common rhetoric and claiming to know all the answers than the miscreants said shepard is committed to protect me from?

    note -- I'm definitely not anti-gun (I own and shoot regularly), and not really anti-carry (although I haven't seen any logical reason why I would want to carry all the time), but I am kinda anti-"I carry to protect the sheep."

    And to keep the post relevant to the topic at hand, no, I don't carry when I ride. I have yet to encounter or even hear of a situation on the trails I ride that has made me think a gun would come in handy. The closest I've come to harm from another animal (2 or 4 legs) was an unhappy looking 6-ft tall cow moose standing in the middle of the trail with a calf. Even then, retreating and shouting and some very small rocks tossed in her direction got her to move, so all was well. And I don't know if my 9mm would have helped much if she wanted to harm me, anyway.

    Of course, I could daydream up some scenarios where a gun would come in handy on a ride, but statistics don't bear out that I should have any logical concerns about those daydreams. So I don't worry about carrying.
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  93. #93
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    Why is it that the people who call others sheeople all write using the same cliches lifted from militaria magazines and talk using the same phrases as the folks I watch on Doomsday Preppers?

  94. #94
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    I kind of identify myself as a sheepdog, but not in the sense that other people are sheep. The analogy is limited to myself and my personal choices only, and the way I feel when I see a fellow human being in trouble: I must help. It comes to me as naturally as a (false) sense of safety comes to the majority, which causes them to lower their shields in everyday life. The odds of something terrible happening is so minimal that it's a basic human way of behaving to ignore it.

    It would be arrogant to call people sheep for acting like perfectly normal people do. But if someone does, it's not necessary to take it the wrong way. When the analogy is taken too literally, we're getting besides the point.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tystevens View Post
    Am I the only one who is usually more fearful of adamant concealed-carry "shepard" spouting off all the common rhetoric and claiming to know all the answers than the miscreants said shepard is committed to protect me from?
    Nope. To me a shepard (sic), is synonymous with a pompous, egotistical and moderately dangerous jackass, to continue the 4-legged simile.
    It's all Here. Now.

  96. #96
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    3 weeks in a row, I had bear encounters last may\early june. Shit happens, when you are in the woods enough, you will have an encounter of some sort. Luckily I scared the living shit out of momma bear with her cubs. I could have swatted one of the cubs out of the tree when I went by.

    If you carry, good for you, know what you are carrying. if you are against it, good for you. Personally to many people worry about other peoples choices. I own lots of weapons, and have killed a lot of animals off of a bike, but I haven't carried for protection before. the bike has been great access for hunting.

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    so BLAH BLAH BLAH. Why did this turn into a debate over the merits of carrying or not carrying. Noone cares, and your opinion on the matter means nothing to someone with their own opinion.

    How about we get some REAL info on what kind of setups people are using to carry. Because there are some of us who feel the need to carry while biking, and would like to know what is effective or not.

    Does anyone make any holster style bags made for bikes, prefferably one that fits a lcp380 or a full size .40 + an extra mag or 2 ?

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveohio View Post
    so BLAH BLAH BLAH. Why did this turn into a debate over the merits of carrying or not carrying. Noone cares, and your opinion on the matter means nothing to someone with their own opinion.
    Lol, obviously you haven't been on the interwebs for very long. Welcome.
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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by steveohio View Post
    so BLAH BLAH BLAH. Why did this turn into a debate over the merits of carrying or not carrying.


    Cause that's how emptybeer rolls. The only thing I can add is "Please don't shoot me because you think I'm Bigfoot". TIA.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by h20-50 View Post
    This is an honest question so please if you disagree I don't need to hear your opinions, I just want advice so I can decide how I can carry, if at all, responsibly and safely.
    The more I read the "gun" threads the more I get agitated. Obviously there are many people here with opposing views for whatever reason. BUT, why is it when someone makes a post asking for advice/info on gun type and riding do all the naysayers come out of the woodwork? I do believe the OP stated above that he didn't want to hear your opinion if you disagree. So why is it that you guys feel obligated to chime in with your "anti" gun views? Then you feel the need to insult the person asking a totally legitimate question just because you do not agree? To me it's a simple as anything in life, if you don't like it don't watch it, click it, read it, or do it...period. No need to cause a stir just because YOU disagree. You are not me and I am not you, and never will be. just my .02 cents.
    "We can always find excuses if we want to find them, but if we really want to do something, we have to just go."

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