View Poll Results: Do you think Armstrong doped?

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  • No. He never did

    50 9.38%
  • Yup, but I didn't think so until recently.

    118 22.14%
  • Yup, knew it all along.

    156 29.27%
  • Yup, but he should keep his titles cause the USADA is bs

    169 31.71%
  • Nope, but I'm starting to have doubts.

    40 7.50%
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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by 50calray View Post
    I heard the other day that companies/endorsements are trying to sue LA and the government may get involved as well.
    I have not heard of any companies that Armstrong had endorsement contracts with proposing to sue him. He does have very real financial exposure in a couple of other areas, primarily from SCA Promotions whom he quite obviously defrauded of several million dollars in bonus payouts (although due to legal technicalities they might not be able to recover) and also ASO which owns and operates the TdF which is also saying they want several million in prize winnings returned. A seven figure libel payout to Armstrong by a UK newspaper is also very likely to be overturned now.

    The largest issue may be a Qui Tam suit brought by the U.S. feds that could total tens of millions of dollars, but that's another matter entirely which doesn't have much in the way of firm information available to the public at this time, given that the case was previously shelved by the Department of Justice (for undisclosed reasons) and they're still not talking about it.

  2. #202
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    "P.S. no reason to neg rep the mentally challenged. That's just wrong."

    "Everyone doped and everyone is still doping...if you think otherwise, you must be on dope"

    two jewels from this thread...that and the quip about "the flat earth society"...

    good god.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDog46 View Post
    Too many are still in denial. There can no longer be any question of what happened in that era. I too was drawn into the excitement of the Lance Armstrong years. But as one after another a rider left or was kicked off his teams only to be caught later for doping...my doubts grew about how clean LA was. Something strange was going on.
    You are far from alone. I remember many a mountain stage party at my house in the early years when I was the only one in my crowd who could get Versus on satellite. We sat on the edges of our seats and cheered. In 2002 I had my own bout of cancer and when the Livestrong bracelets came out mine never came off. It wasn't until Floyd's debacle that I gave up on cycling and realized everyone was dirty My oldest son, who raced in the SF Bay Area, had warned me years earlier. "doping is endemic; if a performance looks too good to be true, it's not." Over and over again, some guy was over the top. Rasmussen and Contador, both dominant both busted. The Spanish Armada,2012. And so many seeming suspicious, Gilbert 2011 (was there a race he didn't win?); Horner and Levi (doper), 2011 Tour of California( two old men dropping 20 and 30 somethings. Really, Chris?) Then this years boring Tour: UK Postal riding together full team up mountains, 2 riders out climbing and out TT'ing everybody. Sagan winning stages and getting points on vertical terrain.

    I really hope Gilbert, Boonen, Evans, Cancellera, Hejsdal, TJ, Voigt, Voeckler, and Sagan, even Cavendish (to name a few) are the real deal. Wiggins and Froome not so much. WTF know with them ? Suspicious team doctors. The blue train being too f'ing good; too much really like Lance's teams. I'm sure there are others.

    Amnesty and reconciliation. Dissolve thev UCI. Start over. It's too good a sport to just die off.





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  4. #204
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    "Amnesty and reconciliation. Dissolve thev UCI. Start over. It's too good a sport to just die off."

    thank you.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    "Amnesty and reconciliation. Dissolve thev UCI. Start over. It's too good a sport to just die off."

    thank you.
    another vote for that idea
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  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    It wasn't until Floyd's debacle that I gave up on cycling and realized everyone was dirty
    That was the beginning of the end for me. I remember that TDF as if it happened yesterday. His recovery ride was one for the ages. "i told the team car, i'm going for it, keep me supplied with water" his words after the stage, or something like it. Then weeks later "game over". It is a beautiful sport. Clean it up. Let's get back to honest racing. The TDF will survive.
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  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDog46 View Post
    That was the beginning of the end for me. I remember that TDF as if it happened yesterday. His recovery ride was one for the ages. "i told the team car, i'm going for it, keep me supplied with water" his words after the stage, or something like it. Then weeks later "game over". It is a beautiful sport. Clean it up. Let's get back to honest racing. The TDF will survive.
    The beginning of the truth about Armstrong for me was when Frankie Andreu and his wife both said they witnessed Lancey Pants tell his cancer doctor that he had used EPO and steroids in his past. At that point in time in the hospital room it was October of 1996 but this was revealed by the Andreus later.

    I think the only way to get illegal drugs and illegal practices out of professional racing is to take the money (endorsements and everything) out of professional racing because the drug chemists always have been and will always be one or two steps ahead of the drug testers. The ultimate solution though is to stop worshiping and idolizing sports stars as some kind of heroes. Good luck with either case given that amateur racers making no money still dope and most people love to make heroes for themselves.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDog46 View Post
    That was the beginning of the end for me. I remember that TDF as if it happened yesterday. His recovery ride was one for the ages. "i told the team car, i'm going for it, keep me supplied with water" his words after the stage, or something like it. Then weeks later "game over". It is a beautiful sport. Clean it up. Let's get back to honest racing. The TDF will survive.

    Get back to honest racing ?!? I'm sorry... but apparently you don't know your TdF history very well. One of the earliest rule books stated the organizers were not responsible for paying for the stimulants and drugs used by the riders. Drug usage was always going on in the tour from the very beginning, and its only because of the french press finally making it widely known to the public that any sort of measures were ever adopted to try and get rid of them, and that only started in like the third decade of the tour. And they only adopted them because the public cried foul (not realizing that their own french heroes were using drugs and relying on various drugs to win.... just like everyone else).

    Do i think lance doped? yep... but then so did everyone else...remember when greg lemond kept saying lance doped... greg would of \course had known...since he doped himself... eddy mercx doped, miguel indurein doped... EVERYONE doped. There are a host of drugs not on the banned lists that can enhance a rider's performance... but you don't see them getting hassled for them. Why? Because it simply would not be possible to do a month of back to back double-century rides, at speeds that make it enjoyable to watch the stages on television, with all the ad revenue and money involved. Yeah Lance made money in purses and bonuses...big deal. The TdF organizers made more. And their bribes to the UCI to ignore test results were no doubt quite extensive. The Olympic Commitee and the UCI and other such groups are organized crime wrapped in a fancy wrapper... that's it.
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  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimpleJon View Post
    I voted yes, but he should still keep his titles:
    -partly because I think the USADA is BS.
    -partly because it was endemic in the late 90's and early mid 2000's.
    I don't think that there many who made it into the GC top 20, without doping and their team mates had to dope to help them. It should be the team managers and the UCI taking the rap for this not individual cyclists; it was a systemic problem not fraud or abuse by an individual.
    I think the USADA is BS because I don't see what good muck racking through ancient history to witch hunt an individual has to do with their stated mission of protecting atheletes who don't cheat. All they are doing is tying up resources and budgets that should be used to protect todays atheletes over a sport that has done a lot more than most to clean up its act over the last few years. This appears to me to be either a personal vendetta or publicity stunt by USADA and its management.
    My thoughts as well. Although I polled that I only recently believed so.
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  10. #210
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    He did it but so did everyone else. All should be equally-recognized and stripped of any awards/finishes. Any money they got from US taxpayers should be returned. The whole thing was one big witch hunt but if they are going to do it, by God they should go after EVERYONE!
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  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigbadwulff View Post
    He did it but so did everyone else. All should be equally-recognized and stripped of any awards/finishes. Any money they got from US taxpayers should be returned. The whole thing was one big witch hunt but if they are going to do it, by God they should go after EVERYONE!
    When you say "EVERYONE" do you mean other than the 10 other people (riders, team doctors, team manager) who have also been charged or sanctioned in this same case together with Armstrong? Or are you looking for a different everyone? Maybe the 15 individuals that are that are going through the last stages before facing criminal charges in Italy for similar cycling-related doping activities?

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeEight View Post
    Why? Because it simply would not be possible to do a month of back to back double-century rides, at speeds that make it enjoyable to watch the stages on television, with all the ad revenue and money involved.
    Wrong, EVERYONE did not dope.
    You say that, but the tour was won by someone who wasn't doped up, Evans!! I have no doubt on other riders being clean.
    You saying the tour can't be won by any rider unless they are doped up is ridiculous, and you've been proved wrong.Your problem is that you are generalizing.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Wrong, EVERYONE did not dope.
    You say that, but the tour was won by someone who wasn't doped up, Evans!!
    You saying the tour can't be won by any rider unless they are doped up is ridiculous, and you've been proved wrong.Your problem is that you are generalizing.
    The riders them selves have a term for clean riders and thats ''bread and water riders' yes they are still around and have always been around the riders say this themselves, everybody thats ever been associated with Cadel says hes clean, you only have to look at the hurt in his eyes n his face during the end of the race to see it, but im not naive to say hes never used, but at this point in time i'll give him the benifit of the doubt, but im not wearing rose coloured glasses when it comes to him or any other rider, anythings possible these days.
    But yes there are clean riders for sure.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  14. #214
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    We the people ...

    Thats true, no one can completely know someone's past. But I'm pretty confident that he was clean when he won the tour ( you had better be clean Evans, don't make me look like a fool)

  15. #215
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    Well, this whole thing became a personal issue for me tonight.

    I was talking with one of my friends while I was wearing my team kit -- I had just gotten home from a road ride with a few teammates. Seeing my kit, he said, "You know that you're forever linked with doping now, right?" I'm hoping that he was being sarcastic, but I can't be too sure, and there are people who legitimately believe that; I still replied that there is massive change occurring in the professional ranks right now. I don't know if I've ever been more offended.

    And this is all because of two primary reasons: there are riders who decided to take illegal drugs, and there are officials who decided to turn a blind eye towards it all. It's too late to change the past, but we need to make sure this never happens again.

    Pat McQuaid, Hein Verbruggen, and all other officials in UCI and USADA who have ever shirked your professional and moral responsibilities, step down now and leave the sport of cycling forever. You've done far too much damage to be able to make up for it. Levi, George, David, all other cyclists who doped, whether you confessed or not, it's time to come clean. Make your peace, and leave the sport. To those who came clean and subsequently lost their jobs, thank you for attempting to do the right thing. I appreciate that you cared enough to be honest with your past, but the truly right thing to do would have been to say "No" in the first place. It's time to clean house and start again.

    I love this sport far too much, and I have far too much pride to be linked, however distantly, with cheaters.
    I've made some bad decisions like taking the gears off my bike. So here's the warning: Do not as I say, nor as I do.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by erik1245 View Post
    Well, this whole thing became a personal issue for me tonight.

    I was talking with one of my friends while I was wearing my team kit -- I had just gotten home from a road ride with a few teammates. Seeing my kit, he said, "You know that you're forever linked with doping now, right?" I'm hoping that he was being sarcastic, but I can't be too sure, and there are people who legitimately believe that; I still replied that there is massive change occurring in the professional ranks right now. I don't know if I've ever been more offended.

    And this is all because of two primary reasons: there are riders who decided to take illegal drugs, and there are officials who decided to turn a blind eye towards it all. It's too late to change the past, but we need to make sure this never happens again.

    Pat McQuaid, Hein Verbruggen, and all other officials in UCI and USADA who have ever shirked your professional and moral responsibilities, step down now and leave the sport of cycling forever. You've done far too much damage to be able to make up for it. Levi, George, David, all other cyclists who doped, whether you confessed or not, it's time to come clean. Make your peace, and leave the sport. To those who came clean and subsequently lost their jobs, thank you for attempting to do the right thing. I appreciate that you cared enough to be honest with your past, but the truly right thing to do would have been to say "No" in the first place. It's time to clean house and start again.

    I love this sport far too much, and I have far too much pride to be linked, however distantly, with cheaters.
    Erik, i'll second that, im not sure why but ive always linked you directly to doping and think you should take this opportunity to come clean, we wont judge you, and im sure you wont get booted off MTBR for it, so send me a PM if you want to get it off your chest,
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by erik1245 View Post
    Just saw this post from my teammate:

    "I went to see the Levi Leipheimer Documentary tonight. Showed up, no sound, choppy image, movie cancelled. First he admits and gets sacked by OPQS, now the omerta's claiming his movie. Dang."






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  18. #218
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    I jumped off the Armstrong bandwagon after...

    I watched this Lance Armstrong documentary on CNN.
    Watch CNN listing for reruns of it, you may change your mind.
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  19. #219
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    I saw that same CNN piece. I do question the motives of the people coming clean and throwing Arrmstrong under the bus in exchange for immunity or reduced sentences with regards to banishment from the sport.
    He did dope for sure but so did everyone else. Lance just leveled the playing field. He did ride 7 tours and still had to pedal, but now everyone is piling sh^t on him as-if he was the only one doping...
    "He who is without sin, cast the first stone" comes to mind. I am not defending the doping part but do admire his tenacity in beating cancer and riding all those miles. His foundation does great work and I am glad that he stepped down from it as not to distract from the good work that has come from it.
    I lost my dad through cancer and hope one day there is a cure. Foundations like Livestrong are needed to help find a cure.YMMV
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  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    I saw that same CNN piece. I do question the motives of the people coming clean and throwing Arrmstrong under the bus in exchange for immunity or reduced sentences with regards to banishment from the sport.
    He did dope for sure but so did everyone else. Lance just leveled the playing field. He did ride 7 tours and still had to pedal, but now everyone is piling sh^t on him as-if he was the only one doping...
    "He who is without sin, cast the first stone" comes to mind. I am not defending the doping part but do admire his tenacity in beating cancer and riding all those miles. His foundation does great work and I am glad that he stepped down from it as not to distract from the good work that has come from it.
    I lost my dad through cancer and hope one day there is a cure. Foundations like Livestrong are needed to help find a cure.YMMV
    No doubt they were all guilty of it. And it was all admitted in the documentary. They had little proof of Lance doing it so they had to give immunity to the little fish for testimony against the big fish [Lance]. My mom just died of lung cancer so I can understand your thoughts on the foundation.
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  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by OscarW View Post
    Foundations like Livestrong are needed to help find a cure.YMMV
    There are many other organizations that do that deserve support. But Livestrong doesn't do anything toward research and hasn't for years. Your Livestrong donation will not hasten that cure. It does help cancer patients and their families "navigate" the patchy and hostile realms of the US healthcare system. But it also does quite a lot to boost the stature and brand value of one Lance Armstrong. In August 2009, for example, the foundation spent about $7m – a quarter of its annual spend – on a Dublin "summit" whose main purpose seems to have been presenting Armstrong as a kind of global statesman, on the same plane as his role models, Bono and Bill Clinton.

    Perhaps Livestrong should strip Lance Armstrong of one more title: chairman | Bill Gifford | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

    Here's s'more interesting reading regarding Livestrong and Lance's personal finances. roopstigo | The Soul of Sports | Inside Livestrong
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  22. #222
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    ^^ Interesting read from roopstigo... Sad story all around really..
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  23. #223
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    absolutely NO.

  24. #224
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    Don't wanna believe he did, but who knows...

  25. #225
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    I voted #4

    That is I think they all dope, or at least did as much as they possibly could, and always have been. its that type of sport where small gains count. Either your last of first.

    I don't think this sport will ever be clean, but its still a sport. And they do their best out there.
    Thats what we all want to see.
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