View Poll Results: Do you think Armstrong doped?

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  • No. He never did

    50 9.38%
  • Yup, but I didn't think so until recently.

    118 22.14%
  • Yup, knew it all along.

    156 29.27%
  • Yup, but he should keep his titles cause the USADA is bs

    169 31.71%
  • Nope, but I'm starting to have doubts.

    40 7.50%
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  1. #351
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    Dave, if your a Lawyer, you must have bribed somebody to get your qualifications.....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  2. #352
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  3. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradpreo View Post
    First, Lance had to be taking testosterone because he had a testicle remove, which means he was producing a very small amount of his own testosterone. However the problem lays within the question of what’s a normal test level? Go into any high school class to see why that’s such a difficult question… some males like they are 24 and others like they are 14..why? Because everyone produces such a wide range of hormone levels… The avg male produces 400 to 1200 mcg of test. So one racer could be at 440 and Lance could be at 1199 (prescribed test) and both normal.
    Not sure where you are going with this. Armstrong's use of PEDs and banned methods according to the charges, mountain of testimony, and supporting evidence, is largely related to EPO and blood transfusions. "T" isn't a central issue.

  4. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    If you go back and read, and try to do it slowly enough that it might penetrate your faulty cognition, you will find that I said that when prosecutions are dropped, that usually means there is a problem with the evidence and that the prosecutor thinks he can't get a conviction.
    Since you are very focused on the DOJ case, I think it's critical to remind once again that this investigation was for fraud and criminal conspiracy i.e. financial crimes. The investigation wasn't directly aimed at anti-doping violations, since these are not criminal offences - as has been pointed out already by others and acknowledged by you earlier in this thread if I'm not mistaken. The DOJ case wasn't for doping charges, therefore no doping charges were dropped by the DOJ.

    On the other hand, the USADA case was for anti-doping violations. We all know the outcome there.

  5. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    typically devoid of substance, yet proclaiming victory.

    Your buddy posts nonsense accusations about my prior posts

    I ask him to prove it.

    He can't. Neither can you. You both fail. Miserably..
    You are impossible, you did this with with a few others in this thread, lol.
    You're BF is guilty, we want blood!

  6. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradpreo View Post
    But at any rate the basic point is the league had been on a “witch hunt” with Lance since he won his first Tour De France… and it was never proven.
    wrong. it was well proven.

    LA failed numerous tests, did a huge payoff to make one of his failed tests disappear, and was under suspicion and investigation for doping and conspiracy while actively racing.

    investigating a racer with history of doping, failed drug tests, intimidation, bribery, extortion, cheating, and lying can hardly be considered a "witch hunt".

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradpreo
    I think once someone is no longer competing, than it’s no longer an issue… game over! If he was caught like many others within months of when they competed, then he is busted and all awards removed for cheating. But part of the responsibility of the league is prove it while they are competing....
    think and believe whatever you want, you certainly have that right.

    however, in the REAL WORLD that exists beyond the confines of your beliefs when a racer applies for and is granted a license they willingly and voluntarily agree to be subjugated to the governing authorities.

    there is no statute of limitations in cycling to catch cheaters and strip them of titles/results if they are later found to have cheated. lance (and everyone else with a racing license) agreed to these conditions by applying for a license. lance (and everyone else with a racing license) agreed to these conditions by being a professional racer.

    point being that all the license holding professional racers didn't have a problem with it -- so then why do you?
    Last edited by monogod; 12-30-2012 at 02:37 AM.
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  7. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    typically devoid of substance, yet proclaiming victory.

    Your buddy posts nonsense accusations about my prior posts

    i ask him to prove it.

    He can't. Neither can you. You both fail. Miserably.

    I give it a d-, mostly because you've put in so much effort. You can do better.
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  8. #358
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    Do you believe Lance Armstrong is clean..

    I believe Lance is clean for the first 5 minutes he exits the shower every day. Anything beyond that is a well kept secret only he and his 100 or so inside circle of friends know for sure. Hey wait a minute weren't 80% of those subpoenaed to testify against him. And it soon became apparent to all how clean he really was.
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    Last edited by DIRTJUNKIE; 12-30-2012 at 11:35 AM.
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  9. #359
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    WOW guys!

    16 pages of speculation about something you really know ZERO about because you weren’t there?

    This is what we call a ‘First World Problem’ over on ar15.com…

  10. #360
    meh... whatever
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Good a time as any to exit the thread. You were called out Tones, and you came up with nothing. Zeo, zilch, nada. Though you did say Lance is my "bff" and did some more name calling.
    you're a day late and dollar short leaving this thread, champ. for you to claim ANY type victory at this point makes just about as much sense as claiming the mayans were correct that 12-21-12 was the end of the world.

    but hey, by this time we're used to you pretty much talking out the southern most extremity of your g.i. tract...
    Last edited by monogod; 12-30-2012 at 01:35 PM.
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  11. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by dead_dog_canyon View Post
    WOW guys!

    16 pages of speculation about something you really know ZERO about because you weren’t there?

    This is what we call a ‘First World Problem’ over on ar15.com…
    I agree Dead Dog no one can say for sure and positively if he is or isn't guilty unless you were there. All we have to go on is evidence or lack of evidence that he doped. It's just like any crime unless you are there you have to go by evidence and credible or non credible witnesses. Go through the evidence and make an educated decision.

    I was on the Lance bandwagon for years and years thinking he was innocent of all accusations. That all changed in my mind once I saw the Lance Documentary on CNN. I think once you view this if you are on the bandwagon you may make a leap off.
    CNN Documentary 'The World According to Lance Armstrong' Exposes Web of Deceit | Bleacher Report
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  12. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by dead_dog_canyon View Post
    WOW guys!

    16 pages of speculation about something you really know ZERO about because you weren’t there?

    This is what we call a ‘First World Problem’ over on ar15.com…
    people for whom nothing exists without their first hand direct knowledge live in very tiny, myopic microcosms of their own delusional creation.

    this what we call a "cognition and reality problem" over here on MTBR...
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  13. #363
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    "Doping" is such a fine line.
    Altitude chambers, food, etc.

    All I can say is my hat is fully off to anybody that even finishes the TDF!!!

    To do it 7-8-9 times Good for YOU!

  14. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by dead_dog_canyon View Post
    "Doping" is such a fine line.
    Altitude chambers, food, etc.

    All I can say is my hat is fully off to anybody that even finishes the TDF!!!

    To do it 7-8-9 times Good for YOU!
    "Doping" is not such a fine line.

    not even close.

    Doping is the difference between winning the TDF and being a peloton filler.

  15. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by dead_dog_canyon View Post
    All I can say is my hat is fully off to anybody that even finishes the TDF!!!
    how many did LA finish before he started doping?
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  16. #366
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    osokolo - Really?

    When they test for doping there are no limits to the tests?
    Do you know the specifics of the tests?
    Do run them?

    As an engineer that creates and runs tests, xxx level in your blood is the trigger point. 0.0001% over the limit = busted, 0.0001% under and you are good. It may be limited to the ability of the machine to read it, but it is not zero.

    Show me the data!

  17. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    how many did LA finish before he started doping?
    That's like asking how many men it took to build the great pyramids. No one knows and it will for always be a mystery. Ask Lance!
    Progress: Just because we have always done it that way is no reason to keep doing it that way.

  18. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by dead_dog_canyon View Post
    osokolo - Really?

    When they test for doping there are no limits to the tests?
    Do you know the specifics of the tests?
    Do run them?

    As an engineer that creates and runs tests, xxx level in your blood is the trigger point. 0.0001% over the limit busted, 0.0001% under and you are good. It may be limited to the ability of the machine to read it, but it is not zero.

    Show me the data!
    as a former athlete, who tried stuff that is waaaaay less powerful than EPO - i can tell you that it was a HUGE difference maker.

    just to clarify above statement - i tried banned substance just for the sake of trying - after i retired from high level competition. never used PED during my athletic career.

    the difference is stunning.

    i can tell you that PED can make the difference from the middle of the road athlete to the winner...

    you can talk your engineering language as much as you want. i am telling you a real life story.

  19. #369
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    The only way to tell if Lance is as good as he has portrayed himself to be to win 9 TDF titles. Is to let him race it again and give him full allowance to use any and all drugs he wants. But you must also drug up all competitors to make it fair.
    Progress: Just because we have always done it that way is no reason to keep doing it that way.

  20. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE, View Post
    That's like asking how many men it took to build the great pyramids. No one knows and it will for always be a mystery. Ask Lance!
    um.... no. that's like asking how many tours LA finished before he started doping. (hint: none)

    however, unlike the construction of the pyramids plethoric sworn eye-witness testimony and evidence (i.e. failed drug tests) of his doping exists so it's hardly speculation.

    "ask lance"? um... no again. as a confirmed and documented perjurer, liar, blackmailer, and extortionist LA's credibility is wholly non-existent.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  21. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by osokolo View Post
    as a former athlete, who tried stuff that is waaaaay less powerful than EPO - i can tell you that it was a HUGE difference maker.

    just to clarify above statement - i tried banned substance just for the sake of trying - after i retired from high level competition. never used PED during my athletic career.

    the difference is stunning.

    i can tell you that PED can make the difference from the middle of the road athlete to the winner...

    you can talk your engineering language as much as you want. i am telling you a real life story.
    And I started taking viagra after I swore off sex...

  22. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by dead_dog_canyon View Post
    WOW guys!

    16 pages of speculation about something you really know ZERO about because you weren’t there?
    I wasn't there for 99% of the stories I read online, in magazines or even in newspapers. Doesn't mean I can't find factual info amongst the BS and achieve an informed opinion
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  23. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhasdrums View Post
    And I started taking viagra after I swore off sex...
    your inability to achieve an erection is wholly irrelevant to the topic at hand.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  24. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    um.... no. that's like asking how many tours LA finished before he started doping. (hint: none)

    however, unlike the construction of the pyramids plethoric sworn eye-witness testimony and evidence (i.e. failed drug tests) of his doping exists so it's hardly speculation.

    "ask lance"? um... no again. as a confirmed and documented perjurer, liar, blackmailer, and extortionist LA's credibility is wholly non-existent.
    Everything you said in response to what I said falls under the same belief. Just slightly worded different with a lot more hostility in your response than mine.
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  25. #375
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    Some of you need to watch "the world according to lance".
    He dopped up in his first TDF till the last. He had a drug cloud hanging over his head, from then till now. I remember that to this day watching it on the news.

  26. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Some of you need to watch "the world according to lance".
    He dopped up in his first TDF till the last. He had a drug cloud hanging over his head, from then till now. I remember that to this day watching it on the news.
    OR

    I was on the Lance bandwagon for years and years thinking he was innocent of all accusations. That all changed in my mind once I saw the Lance Documentary on CNN. I think once you view this if you are on the bandwagon you may make a leap off.
    CNN Documentary 'The World According to Lance Armstrong' Exposes Web of Deceit | Bleacher Report
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  27. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE, View Post
    OR

    I was on the Lance bandwagon for years and years thinking he was innocent of all accusations. That all changed in my mind once I saw the Lance Documentary on CNN. I think once you view this if you are on the bandwagon you may make a leap off.
    CNN Documentary 'The World According to Lance Armstrong' Exposes Web of Deceit | Bleacher Report
    DJ, Yes thats the same Aussie doco that SV11 is talking about, yes its very damning, it shows up LA for what he is, theres no doubt about that.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  28. #378
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    News flash.... PEDs have been and will continue to be used in every professional sport... All this BS about Lance is a cheater is delusional talk because those who think that... some where deep inside believe in the "purity of sports". To alll those in that camp.... In the words of Jack..."you can't handle the truth"! Son, we live in a world of walls... We put our atheletes on a pedestal and would like to think they are "god like".... You have that luxury... The luxury of being so native that all your idols are clean... So when one of these super stars get caught ... U are like OMG!!! Such liars, such cheaters amoung this world of unbelievable super humans God has put among us for our entertainment.... We use words like honor, code and loyalty.... I have neither the time or the inclination to explain way the difference of just being a college star and a millionaire superstar is just the point of a needle difference.... Now I am not saying these superstars are not ridiculously talented and if you or I used the same PEDs then we could do what they are achieving.... NO WAY!! These are superstars that train hard their whole life and look for any advantage they can get away with.... And they know for a fact others are doing it... So they find a way or accept being irrelevant. Take off your rose colared glasses and just enjoy watching the game.... It's just as much of a game behind the scenes not getting caught.... Lance is a 7 time Tour De France champion and deserves everything he has earned.... so does Tiger Woods even if one day they prove he took something .....face the facts and enjoy the game.... don't think you know what's happening behind closed doors... And don't be so quick to "throw that stone" and just believe in the system....

  29. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradpreo View Post
    So when one of these super stars get caught ... U are like OMG!!! Such liars, such cheaters amoung this world of unbelievable super humans God has put among us for our entertainment....
    off the top of your head, without googling, name 5 other dirty riders.

    you most likely can't unless you really follow the sport. know why? most cheaters admitted it when confronted with the evidence so there was never much fanfare over them in the media. they just "manned up", took their lumps, and moved on. in fact, many came forward solely at the prompting of their own conscience. now THAT is called honor and integrity.

    know why LA is called a liar? simple... because he is one. because he continues to deny being dirty despite the mountain of evidence against him INCLUDING multiple failed drug tests and payoff to cover dirty drug tests. know why he's in the news? because he's a liar that made a huge public spectacle about being all butt hurt over the allegations he cheated (including ruining the lives/careers/finances of those making them) only to be found that the allegations were true all along. and even in the face of it all, he maintains his innocence. now THAT is textbook narcissism of a sociopath.

    part of formulating a coherent, relevant argument in a debate is actually knowing WTF you're talking about -- a luxury you clearly don't have. so instead you elect to paint the walls with your explosive verbal diarrhea then stand back proudly imagining yourself so profound and enlightened when in reality all that's come out of your mouth is excrement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradpreo
    These are superstars that train hard their whole life and look for any advantage they can get away with.... And they know for a fact others are doing it... So they find a way or accept being irrelevant.
    therein lies the definition of honor and integrity. a man of substance who's character is defined by honor and integrity would rather never "make it" and be relegated to historical irrelevance than to win by cheating.

    there are rules one agrees to abide by when applying for and being granted a license. racers who disregard those rules have no honor or integrity, and that is NOT part of the game. people who do not believe the rules apply to them are called "sociopaths" and it is considered a serious character defect and mental disorder.

    those who defend these sociopathic cheaters possess the self-same lack of honor, character, and integrity as those whom they defend. you are disgracing yourself with your argument and showing that at a core level your soul is putrid and your heart rancid.

    you're nothing more than a sociopath just like the ones you defend. "birds of a feather" and so forth...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradpreo
    Lance is a 7 time Tour De France champion and deserves everything he has earned....
    last time i checked the record books LA did not win a single TDF due to being disqualified for cheating. of course to his fellow sociopaths he will always remain their champion and they will cry "UNFAIR!" that he was held accountable for his actions.

    unwittingly you've finally uttered some truth, however. in saying LA "deserves everything he has earned" you are correct.

    he has earned the titles of "cheater", "liar", "extortionist", "blackmailer", "fraud", "perjurer" and "the biggest disgrace in the history of cycling" -- and as you stated he deserves everything he has earned.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  30. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradpreo View Post
    News flash.... PEDs have been and will continue to be used in every professional sport... All this BS about Lance is a cheater is delusional talk because those who think that... some where deep inside believe in the "purity of sports". To alll those in that camp.... In the words of Jack..."you can't handle the truth"! Son, we live in a world of walls... We put our atheletes on a pedestal and would like to think they are "god like".... You have that luxury... The luxury of being so native that all your idols are clean... So when one of these super stars get caught ... U are like OMG!!! Such liars, such cheaters amoung this world of unbelievable super humans God has put among us for our entertainment.... We use words like honor, code and loyalty.... I have neither the time or the inclination to explain way the difference of just being a college star and a millionaire superstar is just the point of a needle difference.... Now I am not saying these superstars are not ridiculously talented and if you or I used the same PEDs then we could do what they are achieving.... NO WAY!! These are superstars that train hard their whole life and look for any advantage they can get away with.... And they know for a fact others are doing it... So they find a way or accept being irrelevant. Take off your rose colared glasses and just enjoy watching the game.... It's just as much of a game behind the scenes not getting caught.... Lance is a 7 time Tour De France champion and deserves everything he has earned.... so does Tiger Woods even if one day they prove he took something .....face the facts and enjoy the game.... don't think you know what's happening behind closed doors... And don't be so quick to "throw that stone" and just believe in the system....

    that is great insight. thank you.

    can you please take some time and explain how anything in your post has any relevance to the fact that an athlete got caught using banned substances and penalized for it, according to the rules of the game that you are referring to?

    are you suggesting that the worlds sport body abandons drug tests and allows athletes to drug themselves to the sky and/or death? that is an interesting concept, entertained by a few.

    however, the issue at hand is that there are rules of the game right now, and those that break them will get penalized according to these rules. sure - i dig it completely - if you don't get caught - you are a winna'

    but if you get caught - you are a looser.

    did i get it right?

  31. #381
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    He figured out how to win and pass all the tests and get the trophy in most sports especially motorsports we have found out how dominant teams were cheating and did not get caught because they outsmarted the competition . It has been the rest of the competition realizing how they did it with better technology and ideas well after the winning took place. The goal is to win anyway possible and dont get caught. I like believe the team won fair and square. I also believe It is a shame they did or may have cheated especially when drugs are involved. zero tolerance means zero tolerance

  32. #382
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    The issue is looking everyone straight in the eye and lying about it. with an attitude.

    The other stuff is noise. It's the LIE.

  33. #383
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    off the top of your head, without googling, name 5 other dirty riders.

    you most likely can't unless you really follow the sport. know why? most cheaters admitted it when confronted with the evidence so there was never much fanfare over them in the media. they just "manned up", took their lumps, and moved on. in fact, many came forward solely at the prompting of their own conscience. now THAT is called honor and integrity.


    Are you kidding me, MonoGod? I must say, after reading your reply, you need to be tested for drugs... here is a "quota from wikipedia on Tour de France

    "For as long as the Tour has existed, since 1903, its participants have been doping themselves. No dope, no hope. The Tour, in fact, is only possible because - not despite the fact - there is doping. For 60 years this was allowed. For the past 30 years it has been officially prohibited. Yet the fact remains; great cyclists have been doping themselves, then as now.[3]

    thank you for your reply and offering for everyone to read, the exact viewpoint I was referrring to ,,,

  34. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradpreo View Post
    Lance is a 7 time Tour De France champion and deserves everything he has earned....
    Actually he isn't, why else would he take that down from his Tweeter page?
    He used to have that on his tweet page, not anymore.

  35. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    DJ, Yes thats the same Aussie doco that SV11 is talking about, yes its very damning, it shows up LA for what he is, theres no doubt about that.
    Oh that explains it, same documentary. Yeah I would like to see what this thread would turn to if everybody who responded saw this. It sure does open your eyes to what has been going on all these years.
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  36. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradpreo View Post
    News flash.... PEDs have been and will continue to be used in every professional sport... All this BS about Lance is a cheater is delusional talk because those who think that... some where deep inside believe in the "purity of sports". To alll those in that camp.... In the words of Jack..."you can't handle the truth"! Son, we live in a world of walls... We put our atheletes on a pedestal and would like to think they are "god like".... You have that luxury... The luxury of being so native that all your idols are clean... So when one of these super stars get caught ... U are like OMG!!! Such liars, such cheaters amoung this world of unbelievable super humans God has put among us for our entertainment.... We use words like honor, code and loyalty.... I have neither the time or the inclination to explain way the difference of just being a college star and a millionaire superstar is just the point of a needle difference.... Now I am not saying these superstars are not ridiculously talented and if you or I used the same PEDs then we could do what they are achieving.... NO WAY!! These are superstars that train hard their whole life and look for any advantage they can get away with.... And they know for a fact others are doing it... So they find a way or accept being irrelevant. Take off your rose colared glasses and just enjoy watching the game.... It's just as much of a game behind the scenes not getting caught.... Lance is a 7 time Tour De France champion and deserves everything he has earned.... so does Tiger Woods even if one day they prove he took something .....face the facts and enjoy the game.... don't think you know what's happening behind closed doors... And don't be so quick to "throw that stone" and just believe in the system....
    LOL, Brad, ive got some news for you that might come as a real shock,
    LA is no longer the 7 times champion of the tour, his titles have been stripped because he cheated and lied to get them
    You can live in your world of dellusion for as long as you like, but it wont bring bring his titles back.
    I suppose you still call Marion jones and Ben Johnson olympic champions, along with all the other olympic cheats lol.
    And you tell others to take of their rose coloured glasses, pure gold.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  37. #387
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    Those are not the facts according to Lance, Oso. The facts are its been a "witch hunt" on Lance and after nearly ten years they have it all figured out... not so fast Sherlock... my point is simply the sport and others are riddled with PEDs... lets not be so quick to throw stones and in Lance's case the board was "hellbend" on conviction.. and Lance finally is feedup with trying to convince a board of judges who really have have greater problems with their sport .... this one is personal and if you can't see that...and if it makes you feel better each day to throw stones at the greatest American this sport has ever known.. more power to you.

  38. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradpreo View Post
    Those are not the facts according to Lance, Oso. The facts are its been a "witch hunt" on Lance and after nearly ten years they have it all figured out... not so fast Sherlock... my point is simply the sport and others are riddled with PEDs... lets not be so quick to throw stones and in Lance's case the board was "hellbend" on conviction.. and Lance finally is feedup with trying to convince a board of judges who really have have greater problems with their sport .... this one is personal and if you can't see that...and if it makes you feel better each day to throw stones at the greatest American this sport has ever known.. more power to you.
    Brad , at least look at this thread poll results before you start pointing fingers and ridiculing people. It takes many years and lots of hard work to crack such a sophisticated cheating network that Lance has built. Can't take that one from him - I have to admit that. It was almost perfect. However, the justice may be slow, but in this case - it was merciless.

    If you prefer to call it witch hunt - sure. By all means. But the witch has been caught.

    Your statement that Lance was tired of defending himself is very uninformed and false. He was not tired to sue everyone's a$$ for millions of dollars if they dared to suggest that he doped.

    Now that it is not a secret any more - he may have to cough up some money back to those he sued.

    Why would not he sue USADA and get a few million extra bucks? Which he could have spent on his favourite charity?

    If you don't know the answer - let me know. I will do my best to present you some factual answers - which you could have found everywhere - if you really wanted.

    Instead, you stick your head in the sand and have wet dreams about the most successful American athlete... Pretty sad if you ask me - but you are entitled to your opinion and most certainly - your own heroes.

    Power to you my friend.

  39. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    off the top of your head, without googling, name 5 other dirty riders.

    You most likely can't unless you really follow the sport. Know why? Most cheaters admitted it when confronted with the evidence so there was never much fanfare over them in the media. They just "manned up", took their lumps, and moved on. In fact, many came forward solely at the prompting of their own conscience. Now that is called honor and integrity.

    Know why la is called a liar? Simple... Because he is one. Because he continues to deny being dirty despite the mountain of evidence against him including multiple failed drug tests and payoff to cover dirty drug tests. Know why he's in the news? Because he's a liar that made a huge public spectacle about being all butt hurt over the allegations he cheated (including ruining the lives/careers/finances of those making them) only to be found that the allegations were true all along. And even in the face of it all, he maintains his innocence. Now that is textbook narcissism of a sociopath.

    Part of formulating a coherent, relevant argument in a debate is actually knowing wtf you're talking about -- a luxury you clearly don't have. So instead you elect to paint the walls with your explosive verbal diarrhea then stand back proudly imagining yourself so profound and enlightened when in reality all that's come out of your mouth is excrement.


    Therein lies the definition of honor and integrity. A man of substance who's character is defined by honor and integrity would rather never "make it" and be relegated to historical irrelevance than to win by cheating.

    There are rules one agrees to abide by when applying for and being granted a license. Racers who disregard those rules have no honor or integrity, and that is not part of the game. People who do not believe the rules apply to them are called "sociopaths" and it is considered a serious character defect and mental disorder.

    Those who defend these sociopathic cheaters possess the self-same lack of honor, character, and integrity as those whom they defend. You are disgracing yourself with your argument and showing that at a core level your soul is putrid and your heart rancid.

    You're nothing more than a sociopath just like the ones you defend. "birds of a feather" and so forth...


    Last time i checked the record books la did not win a single tdf due to being disqualified for cheating. Of course to his fellow sociopaths he will always remain their champion and they will cry "unfair!" that he was held accountable for his actions.

    Unwittingly you've finally uttered some truth, however. In saying la "deserves everything he has earned" you are correct.

    He has earned the titles of "cheater", "liar", "extortionist", "blackmailer", "fraud", "perjurer" and "the biggest disgrace in the history of cycling" -- and as you stated he deserves everything he has earned.
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    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  40. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradpreo View Post
    Those are not the facts according to Lance, Oso. The facts are its been a "witch hunt" on Lance and after nearly ten years they have it all figured out... not so fast Sherlock... my point is simply the sport and others are riddled with PEDs... lets not be so quick to throw stones and in Lance's case the board was "hellbend" on conviction.. and Lance finally is feedup with trying to convince a board of judges who really have have greater problems with their sport .... this one is personal and if you can't see that...and if it makes you feel better each day to throw stones at the greatest American this sport has ever known.. more power to you.
    Easily the most dellusional post ive ever read on MTBR.....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  41. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    The human centipede trifecta / three headed hydra of selfrighteous overblown shutins of monogod-osokolo- tones is cuing the fanboy accusations...it won't be long now...
    Well spoken from the guy that got his lawyer qualifications out of the bottom of a box of weeties...
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  42. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradpreo View Post
    Those are not the facts according to Lance, Oso. The facts are its been a "witch hunt" on Lance and after nearly ten years they have it all figured out... not so fast Sherlock... my point is simply the sport and others are riddled with PEDs... lets not be so quick to throw stones and in Lance's case the board was "hellbend" on conviction.. and Lance finally is feedup with trying to convince a board of judges who really have have greater problems with their sport .... this one is personal and if you can't see that...and if it makes you feel better each day to throw stones at the greatest American this sport has ever known.. more power to you.
    Wake up, smell the coffee and throw away yesterday's papers. Armstrong was the greatest cheater and disgrace the sport has ever known. The greatest American cyclist was Greg Lemond. You can look it up.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  43. #393
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    Let's make this easy and get to the end.

    Lance is a loser.... If you dont argee, It's ok that you are wrong.


    There, now I'm unsubscribing.

  44. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bradpreo View Post
    off the top of your head, without googling, name 5 other dirty riders.
    mercier, hamilton, hincape, pantani, landis, brochard, and leblanc.

    i can name off many more if you'd like. as an avid cyclist (road and mtn) i following road racing. that's why i stated to you, "most likely you can't unless you really follow the sport". however i could because i do. yet because you don't follow the sport you couldn't and you only proved my position while yet again fancying yourself to be so clever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradpreo
    Are you kidding me, MonoGod? I must say, after reading your reply, you need to be tested for drugs...
    of course it's not going to make sense to someone devoid of personal integrity. didn't expect it to and was not the least bit surprised it didn't.

    however that begs the following question: am i the one defending lying, cheating, extortion, bribery, perjury, and having a complete disregard for the rules in order to get what one wants?

    no. you are.

    by definition that makes you just as much of a sociopath as the individual you're defending.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradpreo
    here is a "quota from wikipedia on Tour de France

    "For as long as the Tour has existed, since 1903, its participants have been doping themselves. No dope, no hope. The Tour, in fact, is only possible because - not despite the fact - there is doping. For 60 years this was allowed. For the past 30 years it has been officially prohibited. Yet the fact remains; great cyclists have been doping themselves, then as now.[3]
    when it was allowed all was fair game. once it was disallowed it became an activity contravened by the rules (i.e. "cheating").

    we're not discussing the years there were no prohibitions to PED's in the tour. we're talking about violation of rules one agrees to be bound by when applying for and being granted a license and the privilege to compete in professional cycling. specifically we're talking about the most corrupt cyclist in the history of the sport and his actions.

    you defend them and say he should be rewarded for them. myself and others disagree.

    no matter how you try to spin it, you're advocating cheating. by your own argument you've exposed yourself to be a sociopath of questionable character, morals, and devoid of integrity.

    if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and so forth...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradpreo
    thank you for your reply and offering for everyone to read, the exact viewpoint I was referrring to ,,,
    my viewpoint is actually one that most of society agrees with. specifically that it's wrong to cheat to win. that lying, cheating, extortion, retaliation, perjury, and illegal behavior are not an acceptable means to an end and should be punished rather than rewarded.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  45. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr View Post
    It does not matter what one believes, what matters is actual Evidence, Belief is in something you are not certain of. So from the lack of Evidence I KNOW Lance is Innocent.
    + 100% on the above. Until he is fund guilty by a jury of his peers, it is unfair for any of us to have on opinion one way or the other regarding his guilt or innocense. We weren't there and we don't know what really happenened.

  46. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Au contraire! it wasn't Wheeties at all! It was Grape Nuts, that way I could send in the box top and get an MBA (more ******** again) or a phd (piled higher and deeper).
    LOL, well played, i'll pay that one dave,
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  47. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr
    It does not matter what one believes, what matters is actual Evidence, Belief is in something you are not certain of. So from the lack of Evidence I KNOW Lance is Innocent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn
    + 100% on the above. Until he is fund guilty by a jury of his peers, it is unfair for any of us to have on opinion one way or the other regarding his guilt or innocense. We weren't there and we don't know what really happenened.
    we weren't there, but scores of others were. some who doped with him. some who helped him dope. some who helped him cover it up. most all of whom who have submitted sworn testimony and were willing to testify in an open hearing. in legal terms that is referred to as "evidence".

    lance failed several drug tests which revealed he was using PED's and/or banned substances. in legal terms this is also referred to as "evidence".

    there are financial records showing payouts to ferrari, whom he swore under oath to have no contact with, of over a million dollars. in legal terms this is also referred to as "evidence".

    there are financial records showing a total of $250,000 paid to the UCI immediately after he failed a drug test. a failed drug test for which he suffered no repercussion. in legal terms this is referred to not only as "evidence" but also a "bribe".

    there are countless emails showing lance conspired with ferrari and others to cheat, dope, lie, cover it up, intimidate and retaliate against people who were not "playing for the team". in legal terms this is also referred to as.... wait for it.... wait for it.... "evidence".

    further, if one enters a plea bargain and accepts the punishment offered rather than face a trial they have been adjudicated guilty just as if there had been a trial.

    lance had the opportunity to face every shred of evidence against him as well as the scores of witnesses ready to testify against him. he declined. instead he dropped his defense and willing accepted the punishment rather than face his accusers and the evidence in an open, formal hearing. that, along with the fact he had literally no witnesses testifying to his innocence, speaks volumes.

    so tell us, if he willingly accepted the sanctions against him why do you refuse to?

    his own actions refute both of you.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  48. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    + 100% on the above. Until he is fund guilty by a jury of his peers, it is unfair for any of us to have on opinion one way or the other regarding his guilt or innocense. We weren't there and we don't know what really happenened.
    Shawn, he had the chance to face the mountain of evidence against him, but he chose not to because he knew he would be found guilty, then he would be liable, and the findings would show him out to be the biggest cheat, bully and liar in the history of sport.
    Shawn watch the documentary 'the world according to lance', come back and tell me if you still have the same opinion, also, read the findings of the USADA.
    Theres no grey area, he is as guilty as one could possably be.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  49. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    we weren't there, but scores of others were. some who doped with him. some who helped him dope. some who helped him cover it up. most all of whom who have submitted sworn testimony and were willing to testify in an open hearing. in legal terms that is referred to as "evidence".

    lance failed several drug tests which revealed he was using PED's and/or banned substances. in legal terms this is also referred to as "evidence".

    there are financial records showing payouts to ferrari, whom he swore under oath to have no contact with, of over a million dollars. in legal terms this is also referred to as "evidence".

    there are financial records showing a total of $250,000 paid to the UCI immediately after he failed a drug test. a failed drug test for which he suffered no repercussion. in legal terms this is referred to not only as "evidence" but also a "bribe".

    there are countless emails showing lance conspired with ferrari and others to cheat, dope, lie, cover it up, intimidate and retaliate against people who were not "playing for the team". in legal terms this is also referred to as.... wait for it.... wait for it.... "evidence".

    further, if one enters a plea bargain and accepts the punishment offered rather than face a trial they have been adjudicated guilty just as if there had been a trial.

    lance had the opportunity to face every shred of evidence against him as well as the scores of witnesses ready to testify against him. he declined. instead he dropped his defense and willing accepted the punishment rather than face his accusers and the evidence in an open, formal hearing. that, along with the fact he had literally no witnesses testifying to his innocence, speaks volumes.

    so tell us, if he willingly accepted the sanctions against him why do you refuse to?

    his own actions refute both of you.
    Well said mono, only a complete imbo would argue with this....
    Honestly, no wonder there are people that still believe that the earth is flat, youve only gotta read this thread to understand that.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  50. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Well said mono, only a complete imbo would argue with this....
    and one probably will in short order.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

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