View Poll Results: Do you think Armstrong doped?

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  • No. He never did

    50 9.38%
  • Yup, but I didn't think so until recently.

    118 22.14%
  • Yup, knew it all along.

    156 29.27%
  • Yup, but he should keep his titles cause the USADA is bs

    169 31.71%
  • Nope, but I'm starting to have doubts.

    40 7.50%
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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyHustle View Post
    I have no idea if he was clean or not. But he was tested numerous times, and passed them all.
    No he did not, he failed many of them but had the money to pay off the UCI.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyHustle View Post
    I have no idea if he was clean or not. But he was tested numerous times, and passed them all.
    No he didnt, it has come out that he bought his way out of it and also paid a certain doctor to write scripts to cover for his failed tests, its a myth that he passed all his tests...
    He also paid a specialist over 1million in a very short period of time to advise him on doping and beating the system....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyHustle View Post
    I have no idea if he was clean or not. But he was tested numerous times, and passed them all.
    Lance and the team practiced the 5 d's of doping

    Dope, Dodge, Dip, Dodge, Dope!

  4. #154
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    i bought lots of dope from some cat named lance.
    If you arent bleeding, you arent riding hard enough.
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  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeyHustle View Post
    I have no idea if he was clean or not. But he was tested numerous times, and passed them all.
    Neither did Marion Jones.

    How might Lance have done it

    http://m.yahoo.com/w/legobpengine/ne...US&.lang=en-US

    http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/10/analysis/no-armstrong-never-tested-positive-but-how_261616




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    Last edited by dwt; 10-16-2012 at 06:15 AM.
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  6. #156
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    Really surprised by so many thinking he doped but it’s OK because others did as well.

    If he doped, then he has lied, he committed crimes (perjury), stolen prize money, got people fired for telling the truth, threatened people, sued people, bullied people who wanted to cooperate with investigations, etc., etc.

    Would you want him in your sport?

  7. #157
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    If you try google translate here is a small list i fond on my first atempt to search for suspect dead of athletes. As you can see they were all old and drug wasn't in cause. But as you said Lance had a good doctor, he will live strong.


    Les dix morts les plus marquantes
    France-Soir a répertorié les dix décès les plus marquants de ces vingt dernières années, en raison de la popularité de leurs victimes, de leur implication dans des affaires de dopage ou de leur très jeune âge.

    José Manuel Fuente
    Mort en juillet 1996, à 50 ans, d’une maladie rénale qu’il aurait contractée, selon ses dires, en prenant des corticoïdes.

    Paul Haghedooren
    Mort en novembre 1997, à 38 ans, d’une crise cardiaque lors de son jogging. Contrôlé positif.

    Denis Zanette
    Mort en janvier 2003, à 32 ans, d’un arrêt cardiaque, après une visite chez son dentiste. Mis en examen pour dopage.

    Fabrice Salanson
    Mort en juin 2003, à 23 ans, retrouvé inanimé dans sa chambre d’hôtel. Jamais contrôlé positif.

    José-Maria Jimenez
    Mort en décembre 2003, à 32 ans, d’une crise cardiaque, après des problèmes de drogue et une dépression nerveuse.

    Marco Pantani
    Mort en février 2004, à 34 ans, d’une overdose de cocaïne. Suspendu pour dopage.

    Johan Sermon
    Mort en février 2004, à 21 ans, d’un arrêt cardiaque.

    Alessio Galletti
    Mort en juin 2005, à 37 ans, d’un arrêt cardiaque après une chute en course. Mis en examen pour un trafic de transfusions sanguines.

    Frank Vandenbroucke
    Mort en octobre 2009, à 35 ans, d’une double embolie pulmonaire et d’une attaque cardiaque durant des vacances au Sénégal. Suspendu pour dopage.

    Laurent Fignon
    Mort en août 2010, à 50 ans, d’un cancer. Il avait reconnu s’être dopé mais n’était pas sûr que sa maladie soit liée

    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    The first link is to a story about a pro cyclist dying in his sleep but there's no reason there as to why it happened then it meanders off into some anecdotes about EPO use, vaguely trying to link the two w/o any evidence. The second link is to a story on the dangers of EPO. Are you saying that performance enhancing drugs can hurt you? Yes they can but any athlete using so much EPO that it endangered their life either had a no doctor supervising its use or an incompetent doctor doing so treating an incompetent patient.

    Is Lance Armstrong dead, blind, crippled or crazy today as a result of using PE drugs? I don't think so. In fact he successfully used EPO under a doctor's care as a vital life giving therapy during his battle with cancer. Tons of people die from using too much alcohol every year but we still aren't afraid to have a drink or two now and again. You can die from drinking too much water too but it's pretty rare. The difference between help and harm with any substance is always in the dose. Some of the anti-PE drug tales are so very reminiscent of the cheesy scare tactics evident in stuff like Reefer Madness.

    I don't condone or use PEDs but for gawds-sake, use a little common sense not just fear tactics. As far as Armstrong goes, the guy and a lot of others got caught for using drugs against the rules for years. His multi-million dollar a year cycling career that gave him international fame, admiration and respect is shot today. That alone should be a lesson for those tempted to do the same. Give it a rest.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    The first link is to a story about a pro cyclist dying in his sleep but there's no reason there as to why it happened then it meanders off into some anecdotes about EPO use, vaguely trying to link the two w/o any evidence. The second link is to a story on the dangers of EPO. Are you saying that performance enhancing drugs can hurt you? Yes they can but any athlete using so much EPO that it endangered their life either had a no doctor supervising its use or an incompetent doctor doing so treating an incompetent patient.

    Is Lance Armstrong dead, blind, crippled or crazy today as a result of using PE drugs? I don't think so. In fact he successfully used EPO under a doctor's care as a vital life giving therapy during his battle with cancer. Tons of people die from using too much alcohol every year but we still aren't afraid to have a drink or two now and again. You can die from drinking too much water too but it's pretty rare. The difference between help and harm with any substance is always in the dose. Some of the anti-PE drug tales are so very reminiscent of the cheesy scare tactics evident in stuff like Reefer Madness.

    I don't condone or use PEDs but for gawds-sake, use a little common sense not just fear tactics..
    The opposite of fear tactics is white washing.

    There is plenty of evidence that EPO is potentially harmful. I would think you would want the whole picture before injecting sh*t into your body.

    http://www.emaxhealth.com/8782/epo-b...rs-and-runners

    What a choice for a pro to be told by his race director and sponsors "dope and be competitive with other dopers, or you're out". As far as management is concerned, you are an animal who rides bikes and are treated as such. Don't worry, son, stick the needle in your vein. It's perfectly safe.

    Do you really think Kim Kirchen's heart attack in the 2010 Tour de Suisse had nothing to do with PED? 34 year old pro at the peak of his career. Sure.


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  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    The opposite of fear tactics is white washing.

    There is plenty of evidence that EPO is potentially harmful. I would think you would want the whole picture before injecting sh*t into your body.
    ANYTHING is "potentially harmful". Anything can be used wisely or unwisely. That was my point. Be sure to tell the cancers patients surviving and healing with the help of EPO that they're "injecting sh*t" into their bodies.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    ANYTHING is "potentially harmful". Anything can be used wisely or unwisely. That was my point. Be sure to tell the cancers patients surviving and healing with the help of EPO that they're "injecting sh*t" into their bodies.
    Are you dense or just play one on MTBR? CAncer patients undergoing chemo are receiving EPO as a medicine they need to replace red blood cells lost during chemo. A healthy cyclist using EPO to boost normal hematocrit to 50% is abusing the drug to cheat and risks health issues. You don't agree go ahead and use it and spank all the other Cat 4's. knock yourself out. I don't care if you win races or stroke out.


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  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    Are you dense or just play one on MTBR? CAncer patients undergoing chemo are receiving EPO as a medicine they need to replace red blood cells lost during chemo. A healthy cyclist using EPO to boost normal hematocrit to 50% is abusing the drug to cheat and risks health issues. You don't agree go ahead and use it and spank all the other Cat 4's. knock yourself out. I don't care if you win races or stroke out.


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    Apparently I must be dense because now you seem to be accusing me of abusing EPO as a CAT-4 racer or something and that can't be true, in fact it would actually be libelous. I've never been a CAT-Anything racer!

    Did I argue somewhere that using EPO to the point of endangering health is somehow a good or admirable thing? My point that you must have missed, is that EPO is neutral it's not evil, it's just a substance that can be used or misused like any other. I don't think you're going to find anyone to argue about whether it was against the rules or not because it definitely was. The idea that any use of it is automatically bad and unhealthy is just kind of simplistic, juvenile and an act of demonizing it. Cancer patients that have benefited from it are living proof of that.
    Last edited by tl1; 10-17-2012 at 01:16 PM.

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by tl1 View Post
    Apparently I must be dense because now you seem to be accusing me of abusing EPO as a CAT-4 racer or something and that can't be true, in fact it would actually be libelous. I've never been a CAT-Anything racer!

    Did I argue somewhere that using EPO to the point of endangering health is somehow a good or admirable thing? My point that you must have missed, is that EPO is neutral it's not evil, it's just a substance that can be used or misused like any other. I don't think you're going to find anyone to argue about whether it was against the rules or not because it definitely was. The idea that any use of it is automatically bad and unhealthy is just kind of simplistic, juvenile and an act of demonizing it. Cancer patients that have benefited from it are living proof of that.
    Sorry for insult. My bad and not necessary. It's just hard for me to understand where you're coming from.

    You can't compare legitimate medicinal use of a drug to cheating in athletics. EPO is not neutral; it is a powerful drug that can be used and abused. Any use other than medicinal treatment of an abnormal condition is abuse per se. Denial that abuse is potentially harmful is just plain false. That Lance and his cohorts appear none worse for wear today and that harmful effects are not common proves nothing- even assuming the truth of that statement. artificially boosting hematocrit to 50% is risky business. How risky is for each abuser to decide for him or herself, same as with HGH, testosterone, steroids and other PED's. That some riders were pressured into becoming EPO junkies against their better judgement, and that other riders rode clean and got pummeled by cheaters, just plain sucks. The sooner cycling comes clean, the better. The sponsors, team directors and riders must be on the same page. The UCI should be dissolved and replaced by another agency with credible members. It is not a pipe dream, the pendulum is swinging in that direction
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    Last edited by dwt; 10-17-2012 at 02:24 PM.
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  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJJ View Post
    If he doped, then he has lied, he committed crimes (perjury), stolen prize money, got people fired for telling the truth,threatened people, sued people, bullied people who wanted to cooperate with investigations, etc., etc.
    ??? From a logic point of view, does the stuff not in bold imply the stuff in bold?

    Not saying he did or didn't do all those things .... just trying to sort out the implications in this very public lynching.

  14. #164
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    This thread is getting ridiculously long so I don't know if this has been mentioned, but he is no longer the head of Livestrong and Nike dropped him today and that is saying a lot. The storm is about to hit.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  15. #165
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    Trek dropped him today too.

    The issue is black and white to me. The truth is the truth.

  16. #166
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    Doping was widespread in cycling before Lance was even born.
    Kund Jensen died in competition in 1960 of anphetamines.
    Tom Simpson dropped dead in the 1967 Tour de France. Drugs.
    Lance arrived to be the best at it, and beat everybody. He succeeded.

    Good time for Nike to suddenly get some morals. How are those sweat shops doing?

  17. #167
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    Hi,
    sad news : LA has just been prooven guilty and all his victories are cancelled by UCI, this after hearing the results of USADA enquiries.
    No news from ASO and Tour Org, next public appointment for the Tour is next wednesday for unveiling the 2013 full race details, more to come...
    News released at 13h01 CET.

  18. #168
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    Cha-ching!!



    LA is toast.
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  19. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlopeRiderSC View Post
    LA has just been prooven guilty
    Incorrect, there has never been a court case or judgement. He is just been presumed guilty based on decision not to fight.

    Even though he didn't respond to USADA, he could still decide to appeal the UCI decision. Seems unlikely though.

    The sh1t thing is that unless lance actually admits it, or fights it and loses in court. There will never be closure on this whole thing...

  20. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsey24 View Post
    Incorrect, there has never been a court case or judgement. He is just been presumed guilty based on decision not to fight.

    Even though he didn't respond to USADA, he could still decide to appeal the UCI decision. Seems unlikely though.

    The sh1t thing is that unless lance actually admits it, or fights it and loses in court. There will never be closure on this whole thing...
    LOL, You sound like his lawyer or lance himself, he has been proven guilty to any sensible person beyond any shadow of a doubt.
    He will never fight it, he has no leg to stand on, his no show to fight it IS A FULL ADMISSION OF GUILT, the evidence is unfightable n mountainous.

    Any person who thinks he is telling the truth would also believe the earth is still flat....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  21. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Here is my disclaimer: This is only my opinion.

    I do think Lance cheated. Even though I believe he cheated what he still did was amazing. Lets stick to the facts. This man had cancer, overcame it , and still became a pro cyclist. That would have been enough for me to admire anyone. If he would've won 1 race I would have been shocked, but this guy won the TDF 7 times. If you look at that era there was a doping epidemic. How could a guy beat a field of dopers if he didn't dope? Did he just train that much better? I would like to believe that, but I don't. If he did or didn't dope what he did on the bike was extraordinary.

    I admire the local guy who rides with me that had cancer.
    Missed a few of his qualities mentioned in the now widely accepted USADA report, like...
    Lying, cheating, bullying, threatening people and their families, perjury, encouraging others to dope, organizing the distribution of drugs, getting people fired from their jobs for telling the truth, ........

    Yea, a guy to be admired.

  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlopeRiderSC View Post
    Hi,
    sad news : LA has just been prooven guilty and all his victories are cancelled by UCI, this after hearing the results of USADA enquiries.
    No news from ASO and Tour Org, next public appointment for the Tour is next wednesday for unveiling the 2013 full race details, more to come...
    News released at 13h01 CET.
    Correction: GOOD NEWS! The scumball is toast, and these stupid threads will stop for good
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  23. #173
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    So how long do we have to wait to see who won the 7 tours he had?
    With all the other dopers behind him it will probably take months to sort out.
    You might as well just say the tour was canceled for those 7 years.
    Why not just take the whole tour, put it in a burlap bag and just toss it over the bridge.


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  24. #174
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    Upset

    The powers that be now make it so as if nobody sat on a bike for 3 weeks and rode their butts off. The titles won't go to the next in line since everybody doped. The TDF and UCI can't find anyone who cycled in all those races that was clean. Did I just waste all that time watching the TDF???
    Last edited by OscarW; 10-23-2012 at 04:27 PM.
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  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsey24 View Post
    The sh1t thing is that unless lance actually admits it, or fights it and loses in court. There will never be closure on this whole thing...
    Not sure about that. I'm getting pretty close to a feeling of closure.

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