Poll: Do you think Armstrong doped?

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  1. #501
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    Armstrong allegedly offered large "donation" to doping agency

    This is really nothing that we don't already know but I thought it curious that CBS News had something on it today.(CBS News)

    Cyclist Lance Armstrong once offered a large "donation" to the same agency that recently concluded he and his team had used illegal substances, causing him to be stripped of his seven Tour de Frances wins. The brazenly inappropriate gesture made to the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency is recounted by the agency's CEO Travis Tygart, who tells Scott Pelley the whole story of his agency's investigation of Armstrong for the first time in an interview to be broadcast on the premiere edition of "60 Minutes Sports," Wednesday, Jan. 9 at 10:00 p.m. on the Showtime network.

    Armstrong once gave the International Cycling Union, a regulatory body for his sport, a gift of $100,000. Tygart called that "totally inappropriate." Then someone representing Armstrong tried to give USADA a large sum of money sometime in 2004. "I was stunned," he tells Pelley. "It was clear -- it was a clear conflict of interest for USADA. We had no hesitation in rejecting that offer," says Tygart, who said the amount was "in excess of $150,000." Told by Pelley that "60 Minutes" had learned it was $250,000, Tygart replies, "It was around that ballpark."

    For a preview of Scott Pelley's interview with Travis Tygart, tune in to the CBS Evening News tonight at 6:30 p.m. ET.

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    It had long been suspected that Armstrong and the U.S. Postal Cycling Team he led had been using substances and illegal treatments to enhance their amazing performances. The U.S. Justice Department investigated the team for two years but refused to charge him. It was a decision that stunned Tygart, especially since he learned about it from reporters. "I don't know [why they failed to charge Armstrong], Scott. It's a good question and one that if you finally answer, let me know," says Tygart.

    Attorney denies report Lance Armstrong will admit doping
    Armstrong sued for more than $1.5M by U.K. newspaper over libel case

    In addition to blindsiding him on its refusal to bring charges, the Justice Department also refused to share the results of its investigation with Tygart. Regardless of the message the U.S. government may have been sending with that move, Tygart says, "We have an obligation to clean athletes and the future of sport. This was a fight for the soul of sport."

    Tygart describes Armstrong and his team of doctors, coaches and riders as similar to a "Mafia" that kept their secret for years and intimidated riders into silently following their illegal methods. Some of those riders are considered victims by Tygart and he said they were forced to choose between following the doping program or being off the team, dashing the dream they had worked so hard to attain. It's what Tygart says motivates him. "It's our job, Scott, to protect clean athletes. There were victims of doping," he says.

    Lance Armstrong declined to comment for this story.
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  2. #502
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    Lance is going to have a 90 minute interview with Oprah on January 17th........Just sayin'

  3. #503
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    My wife has a conspiracy theory that he faked the cancer to get a chance to use the drugs...

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by uber_franz View Post
    My wife has a conspiracy theory that he faked the cancer to get a chance to use the drugs...
    Your wife isnt alone, theres a lot of people that think exactly the same.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  5. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by uber_franz View Post
    My wife has a conspiracy theory that he faked the cancer to get a chance to use the drugs...
    Exactly, additional to that I have a friend who knows someone who knows a person who heard the theory that his testical is not really missing it's just tucked in.

  6. #506
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    You're a little late to the party...

    I believe it doesn't matter, nobody cares, and he won by the rules of the day. No more, no less.
    I'll be along... eventually.

  7. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by msylvan View Post
    I believe it doesn't matter, nobody cares, and he won by the rules of the day. No more, no less.
    LOL

    First of all he didnt win by the rules of the day, he cheated and used drugs, and now his been caught out and he is to gutless to face the music.

    ''nobody cares'' lol, plenty care all over the world, the people he bullied, cheated and destoyed the careers of care, plenty of cycle and sport lovers care and you cared enough to make your above post, if nobody cared the media and all the people talking about this would not be bothered talking, its the sporting story of the last 50 years incase you havnt noticed.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by uber_franz View Post
    My wife has a conspiracy theory that he faked the cancer to get a chance to use the drugs...
    This thread has gone from who gives a shyte, to friggin' stupid, and now to totally whacked out

    Do you believe Lance Armstrong is clean?-imageuploadedbytapatalk1357712948.937629.jpg
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by msylvan View Post
    i believe it doesn't matter, nobody cares, and he won by the rules of the day. No more, no less.
    Do you believe Lance Armstrong is clean?-imageuploadedbytapatalk1357713152.831784.jpg
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  10. #510
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    One thing good to come out the "consideration for confession" debacle, the naysayers have all disappeared. Whatever doubt was left, it's now melted away.

  11. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    ... if nobody cared the media and all the people talking about this would not be bothered talking....
    Now that's not technically true. Many times the media reports what they want people to care and talk about, to push their agenda. It's a great tool to get people to stop paying attention to more important issues.
    Another tactic of theirs is to push as much bad news as possible. The whole deal with Lance is bad news from the bottom up, so it makes for great news to draw viewers to.

    And I'm sure you know what msylvan meant by "the rules of the day". Obviously using performance enhancing drugs wasn't a legal rule, but it was what so many people were doing that if you wanted to stay competitive, it was just about your only option.
    Just like when Major League Baseball's PED problem came to light. Hitters were juicing, so pitchers started juicing. Backups started juicing because they couldn't get past the starters that were juicing to get their chance. Then you had players that were never accused of juicing like Ken Griffey Jr, who had their HOF careers hampered by injuries that they didn't miraculously recover from because they weren't using HGH. Now players like Junior, who should be holding the records of people like Bonds or McGwire (fux Sosa), are forgotten about. No one talks about Griffey or other players never accused of cheating that will be in the HOF. But they just can't stop talking about the sideshow spectacle that was Clemens and Bonds.

    It doesn't make it right for any of them, but it doesn't make one juicer any more wrong then the others. Are you more mad because he juiced and won, or because others came clean after getting busted with positive piss tests but he didn't? If it's the former, I hope he's not the only one you have this hatred for. If it's the latter, he wasn't the only one lying until he got caught, they all lied until they got caught. It just took longer for the authorities that be to lock down the sufficient evidence to say he was also cheating.

  12. #512
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    Well, before I wasn't all that interested, but now I'm curious to see how any twists affect daves4mtb.
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  13. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshh View Post
    Now that's not technically true. Many times the media reports what they want people to care and talk about, to push their agenda. It's a great tool to get people to stop paying attention to more important issues.
    Another tactic of theirs is to push as much bad news as possible. The whole deal with Lance is bad news from the bottom up, so it makes for great news to draw viewers to.

    And I'm sure you know what msylvan meant by "the rules of the day". Obviously using performance enhancing drugs wasn't a legal rule, but it was what so many people were doing that if you wanted to stay competitive, it was just about your only option.
    Just like when Major League Baseball's PED problem came to light. Hitters were juicing, so pitchers started juicing. Backups started juicing because they couldn't get past the starters that were juicing to get their chance. Then you had players that were never accused of juicing like Ken Griffey Jr, who had their HOF careers hampered by injuries that they didn't miraculously recover from because they weren't using HGH. Now players like Junior, who should be holding the records of people like Bonds or McGwire (fux Sosa), are forgotten about. No one talks about Griffey or other players never accused of cheating that will be in the HOF. But they just can't stop talking about the sideshow spectacle that was Clemens and Bonds.

    It doesn't make it right for any of them, but it doesn't make one juicer any more wrong then the others. Are you more mad because he juiced and won, or because others came clean after getting busted with positive piss tests but he didn't? If it's the former, I hope he's not the only one you have this hatred for. If it's the latter, he wasn't the only one lying until he got caught, they all lied until they got caught. It just took longer for the authorities that be to lock down the sufficient evidence to say he was also cheating.
    First off josh, its not hatred i have for him, not even close, its a distain, dislike, lack of respect for the way he treaded others to get where he is, its the lying, the person he pretends to be, its the bullying of other riders, its the lack of owning up and trying to throw others under the bus to cover his own ass, these are the things i dont like or respect in a man.

    Lance did piss positive tests, but were covered up by his doctors and team.
    Secondly Lance comes across to me as entitled, as a liar, a bully, a guy that is boarderlining on a sociopath, actually is a sociopath.
    I like to see guys like this get what they deserve, i also like to see his head in the sand supporters get proven wrong, simple as that.
    Ive watched every one of lances tour victories, and ever stage of the tour for the last 15 or so years, the way he tried to dominate the pack, and bully others was very apparent.
    Go watch the documentry the world according to lance, or read the mountain of evidence in the USADA report, the guy is a disgrace to the values of sport all over the world and not just with the drugs.

    Theres nothing i like more than people living with their heads in the sand and neglecting the facts being proven wrong, its a small simple joy in life that i enjoy .

    I dont hate lance, im just really enjoying seeing a guy like him get his just desert and being exposed for what he is, its sweet poetic justice although it took a while to come.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  14. #514
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    Seems like we will all find out soon. Oprah will be interviewing Lance Armstrong. The show will air at 9 p.m. EST on Jan. 17 on OWN and Oprah.com.

    Here is a snippet from the article:
    Lance Armstrong has agreed to a tell-all interview with Oprah Winfrey where he will address allegations that he used performance-enhancing drugs during his cycling career.

    Oprah to interview Lance Armstrong - Yahoo! News

  15. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    First off josh, its not hatred i have for him, not even close, its a distain, dislike, lack of respect for the way he treaded others to get where he is, its the lying, the person he pretends to be, its the bullying of other riders, its the lack of owning up and trying to throw others under the bus to cover his own ass, these are the things i dont like or respect in a man.

    Lance did piss positive tests, but were covered up by his doctors and team.
    Secondly Lance comes across to me as entitled, as a liar, a bully, a guy that is boarderlining on a sociopath, actually is a sociopath.
    I like to see guys like this get what they deserve, i also like to see his head in the sand supporters get proven wrong, simple as that.
    Ive watched every one of lances tour victories, and ever stage of the tour for the last 15 or so years, the way he tried to dominate the pack, and bully others was very apparent.
    Go watch the documentry the world according to lance, or read the mountain of evidence in the USADA report, the guy is a disgrace to the values of sport all over the world and not just with the drugs.

    Theres nothing i like more than people living with their heads in the sand and neglecting the facts being proven wrong, its a small simple joy in life that i enjoy .

    I dont hate lance, im just really enjoying seeing a guy like him get his just desert and being exposed for what he is, its sweet poetic justice although it took a while to come.
    +1

    The reason I want to see justice done is nothing to do with the fact Lance juiced, plenty of people in sport have done that. It is the fact he lied, bullied, intimidated, sued anybody who spoke out against his deceit and brutally wrecked the careers of people that just told the truth. And still, after all that, there seems a shed load of people on here and elsewhere that think he's a man to be admired, and that it's all OK 'cause plenty of other cyclists took drugs.

  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJJ View Post
    +1

    The reason I want to see justice done is nothing to do with the fact Lance juiced, plenty of people in sport have done that. It is the fact he lied, bullied, intimidated, sued anybody who spoke out against his deceit and brutally wrecked the careers of people that just told the truth. And still, after all that, there seems a shed load of people on here and elsewhere that think he's a man to be admired, and that it's all OK 'cause plenty of other cyclists took drugs.
    well said....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  17. #517
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    Lance can't own up to too much, the civil liabilities of his doing so would likely bankrupt him. I expect much waffling.

  18. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Lance can't own up to too much, the civil liabilities of his doing so would likely bankrupt him. I expect much waffling.
    With out a doubt AZ, he will only admit to a very small amount if anything, it will be self serving, the only reason he will admit to anything is if he can nut a deal out to lift a lifetime ban.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  19. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJJ View Post
    +1

    The reason I want to see justice done is nothing to do with the fact Lance juiced, plenty of people in sport have done that. It is the fact he lied, bullied, intimidated, sued anybody who spoke out against his deceit and brutally wrecked the careers of people that just told the truth. And still, after all that, there seems a shed load of people on here and elsewhere that think he's a man to be admired, and that it's all OK 'cause plenty of other cyclists took drugs.
    So it's almost a mirror image of Barry Bonds situation then.... Some fans will never believe he cheated, and some will never forgive him for it.

    And Tone's your disdain for Lance is greater then someone like FLoyd Landis because Landis came clean only after being caught in lies that discredited and ruined poeple, and Lance is still holding on to his which have discredited and ruined more people? Understandable.

  20. #520
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    So, how's he going to play it? Find god?

  21. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    I expect much waffling.
    An investment opportunity for Armstrong perhaps then?

    DineEquity Inc., DIN Stock Quote - (NYSE) DIN, DineEquity Inc. Stock Price

    (ya, bad joke, couldn't resist...)

  22. #522
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    Strange things happen on Oprah...


  23. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Lance can't own up to too much, the civil liabilities of his doing so would likely bankrupt him. I expect much waffling.
    The civil liabilities came due with the USADA determinations and loss of titles. The big ones are the British paper the Sunday Times and SCA Promotions .

    From a New York Times article on January 4th:
    But what worries Armstrong and his lawyers most, two of the people with knowledge of the situation said, is that he could face charges of perjury if he confesses because in sworn testimony in the SCA case he said he had never doped.

    In terms of product endorsement, the companies likely do not want to attract bad publicity, so maybe he's OK there.

    The big fear should be the Floyd Landis lawsuit. Again from the NYT January 4th article:

    The timeline for Armstrong’s deciding whether to confess is unclear, but it is partly based on whether the United States Justice Department will join the whistle-blower lawsuit, which was filed under the False Claims Act. The sole plaintiff of that lawsuit is Floyd Landis, Armstrong’s former Postal Service teammate, who was stripped of the 2006 Tour de France title for doping.

    If the Justice Department joins the lawsuit as a plaintiff, the case would be more formidable than if Landis pursued it alone. Landis stands to collect up to 30 percent of any money won in the case, which could be in the millions. The team’s contract with the Postal Service from 2000 to 2004 was more than $30 million.


    If anyone has more updated information on the status of the Justice Dept.re: the Landis whistle-blower suit, please post up.
    Last edited by June Bug; 01-09-2013 at 02:57 PM.

  24. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuffink View Post
    Strange things happen on Oprah...

    Made my day! Only one certainty - BIG payday for Lance with money wired to off-shore account. Otherwise, no sane reason whatsoever to expose yourself to a TV interview (remember Sandusky?).

    Then again, maybe Oprah will make it all better...
    Will trade for some chicken.

  25. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuffink View Post
    So, how's he going to play it? Find god?
    The Devil made him do it.

  26. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Lance can't own up to too much, the civil liabilities of his doing so would likely bankrupt him. I expect much waffling.
    yup. count me amazed if it's anything even remotely more substantive than copious amounts of unicorn farts and blathering obfuscation.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  27. #527
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    I wonder if Oprah will talk about the deception, lies, bullying, threatening, ending carrers, intimidation etc etc with LA. I have a feeling it won't be discussed.

  28. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    I wonder if Oprah will talk about the deception, lies, bullying, threatening, ending carrers, intimidation etc etc with LA. I have a feeling it won't be discussed.




    Lance doesn't care what Oprah did to get to the top.

  29. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    Lance doesn't care what Oprah did to get to the top.
    lol, ouch...

    true story...
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  30. #530
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    A few questions I would like to see Oprah ask Lance:

    1. Will you admit that the hospital incident happened and will you describe it in detail?

    2. Did you intimidate or tamper with witnesses who implicated you in doping?
    Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!
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  31. #531
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    I wonder if Lance will ask Oprah about her past cocaine addiction. That would be funny!

  32. #532
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    dear god...the video begins with lance riding a mountain bike:

    AP source: Armstrong 'sorry' to Livestrong staff - SFGate

  33. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    dear god...the video begins with lance riding a mountain bike:

    AP source: Armstrong 'sorry' to Livestrong staff - SFGate
    I'm pretty sure he is still allowed to do that.

  34. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    I'm pretty sure he is still allowed to do that.
    I lol'd. Perfect response.

  35. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    I'm pretty sure he is still allowed to do that.
    that would be interesting to find out...NORBA does fall under the umbrella of USA cycling, which is governed by the UCI...

    anybody have a take on this?

    would lance be allowed to race mountain bikes at a sanctioned race?

  36. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    dear god...the video begins with lance riding a mountain bike:

    AP source: Armstrong 'sorry' to Livestrong staff - SFGate
    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    that would be interesting to find out...NORBA does fall under the umbrella of USA cycling, which is governed by the UCI...

    anybody have a take on this?

    would lance be allowed to race mountain bikes at a sanctioned race?
    You didn't say race, you said riding.

  37. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    would lance be allowed to race mountain bikes at a sanctioned race?
    No. He's currently banned from any sanctioned activities for any sport that falls under the WADA umbrella, which is also why he can't compete in sanctioned triathlons and had to pull his plans for competing in the last Hawaii Ironman.

  38. #538
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    He just raced a mountain bike a couple weeks ago. I saw it on TV. I don't know what sanctioning body though.

  39. #539
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    I don't believe in lance Armstrong.

  40. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    He just raced a mountain bike a couple weeks ago. I saw it on TV. I don't know what sanctioning body though.
    this one?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/26/sp...rado.html?_r=0

    this one?

    Race to let Armstrong compete Saturday - Cycling- NBC Sports

    if it's the second one, it was unsanctioned.

  41. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    I wonder if Lance will ask Oprah about her past cocaine addiction. That would be funny!

  42. #542
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    I don't believe in lance Armstrong.
    Well, I don't believe in god, as I have never seen or talked to him. I've seen and talked to Lance Armstrong, so therefore, I believe in him.

  43. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    I don't really recall which one it was. I was doing something else while the tv was on and didn't get the whole story. I was just surprised to see that he was able to race.

  44. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    I don't really recall which one it was. I was doing something else while the tv was on and didn't get the whole story. I was just surprised to see that he was able to race.
    prolly the second one. i remember hearing something about it in passing as well...

  45. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Well, I don't believe in god, as I have never seen or talked to him. I've seen and talked to Lance Armstrong, so therefore, I believe in him.
    I have seen, talked to, and had beers with Greg LeMond. I believe in him.

  46. #546
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    All i want to know is where is the 10% of total naive muppets in this thread that voted 'no he never doped are..???
    Honestly, you guys put your hand up because you are officially amongst the stupidest and most naive human beings on planet earth..
    You all should be banned from breeding you are so stupid, and if you have bred i feel sorry for your children because you have passed on the stupidest genes in the planet...
    Hang your heads in shame, spit the sand out of your mouth from having had your heads buried under the sand for so long,...

    Carry on......
    Last edited by Tone's; 01-15-2013 at 03:46 AM.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  47. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Well, I don't believe in god, as I have never seen or talked to him. I've seen and talked to Lance Armstrong, so therefore, I believe in him.
    You would have also believed in jim jones too.......and youd be dead.....
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  48. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    All i want to know is where is the 10% of total naive muppets in this thread that voted 'no he never doped are..???
    Honestly, you guys put your hand up because you are officially amongst the stupidest and most naive human beings on planet earth..
    You all should be banned from breeding you are so stupid, and if you have bred i feel sorry for your children because you have passed on the stupidest genes in the planet...
    Hang your heads in shame, spit the sand out of your mouth from having had your heads buried under the sand for so long,...

    Carry on......
    Tone's, I will gladly raise my hand again and tell you I voted No. Not that I think he is innocent. I have posted a few times that I don't care about it nearly as much as you, and some others here. I voted No just because that part of the poll was lagging behind and I wanted to boost the number. And it's funny to see people froth at the mouth, furiously slamming away at their keyboard about it.

    To base your opinion of people simply because they clicked a voting button on an MTBR thread, without knowing why they clicked it, makes you seem shallow. Going off on those people, and saying the things you did, makes you come off like an irrational prick.

    I know you have previously said you don't hate LA, but it's more of a disdain you have for him. But the venom you spew about him makes me believe he hurt you directly. You shouldn't spend so much time and energy on LA if he didn't hurt you on a personal level.

  49. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshh View Post
    Tone's, I will gladly raise my hand again and tell you I voted No. Not that I think he is innocent. I have posted a few times that I don't care about it nearly as much as you, and some others here. I voted No just because that part of the poll was lagging behind and I wanted to boost the number. And it's funny to see people froth at the mouth, furiously slamming away at their keyboard about it.

    To base your opinion of people simply because they clicked a voting button on an MTBR thread, without knowing why they clicked it, makes you seem shallow. Going off on those people, and saying the things you did, makes you come off like an irrational prick.

    I know you have previously said you don't hate LA, but it's more of a disdain you have for him. But the venom you spew about him makes me believe he hurt you directly. You shouldn't spend so much time and energy on LA if he didn't hurt you on a personal level.
    LOL, Whats venomous about saying the people who thought he never doped are amounst the stupidest and most naive people in the planet, thats almost a fact lol.
    With all the evidence they still buried their heads in the sand...
    And to say they shouldnt breed is pretty close to the mark, thats not venomous, thats a dark aussie sense of humour, im never venomous on this site, if i wanted to be i could and youd know about it lol, i just like to make a few dramatic statements...
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

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  51. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard0son View Post
    This appears to me to be either a personal vendetta or publicity stunt by USADA and its management.
    LOL, Richo, whats doing ???? your not on any substances are you Rich, come on you can tell me, i was there once, it helps to talk to others that have been there too......
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

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  53. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail6 View Post
    And in other news.....sun rises in east.
    ...Bears proven to defecate in the wild
    ...Pope decides Catholicism is 'for him'.
    It's all Here. Now.

  54. #554
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65 View Post
    I have seen, talked to, and had beers with Greg LeMond. I believe in him.
    I have been close friends with Greg, his wife Kathy and their 3 kids. I have been on numerous trips out west hunting, fishing and skiing with Greg over the last 23 years. I spent 2 weeks last summer at Greg and Kathy's place at the Yellowstone Club up in Big Sky Mt. with my kids last summer...


    I have always believe in Greg...
    Last edited by Stugotz; 01-15-2013 at 12:34 PM.
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  55. #555
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    .... i just like to make a few dramatic statements...
    Well if that's what you were going for, I think you are there.

  56. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stugotz View Post
    I have been close friends with Greg, his wife Kathy and their 3 kids. I have been on numerous trips out west hunting, fishing and skiing with Greg over the last 23 years. I spent 2 weeks last summer at Greg and Kathy's place at the Yellowstone Club up in Big Sky Mt. with my kids last summer... I believe in Greg...
    I'd say he's a top notch fellow. Seemed to be anyway.

  57. #557
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    Haven't paid attention to this thread since I posted it and saw the results a few days later.

    All I have to add is it sucks finding out all your childhood heroes are frauds, liars, and cheats. Not just LA, but Mark McGwire was my hero. Watching him hit a homerun in his big season as an 8 year old is something that I'll never forget. Sucks now that I know what really propelled that ball.

  58. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail6 View Post
    And in other news.....sun rises in east.
    confirmed in the west as well.
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  59. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    You all should be banned from breeding you are so stupid, and if you have bred i feel sorry for your children because you have passed on the stupidest genes in the planet...
    Quote Originally Posted by joshh View Post
    Tone's, I will gladly raise my hand again and tell you I voted No. Not that I think he is innocent. I have posted a few times that I don't care about it nearly as much as you, and some others here. I voted No just because that part of the poll was lagging behind and I wanted to boost the number. And it's funny to see people froth at the mouth, furiously slamming away at their keyboard about it.

    To base your opinion of people simply because they clicked a voting button on an MTBR thread, without knowing why they clicked it, makes you seem shallow. Going off on those people, and saying the things you did, makes you come off like an irrational prick.

    I know you have previously said you don't hate LA, but it's more of a disdain you have for him. But the venom you spew about him makes me believe he hurt you directly. You shouldn't spend so much time and energy on LA if he didn't hurt you on a personal level.
    It was a little more then, "naive" comment. I think it was the stupid and breeding comment. It really was way overboard and not called for. And, deserves neg rep!

    EDIT: Neg rep to Tone's, that is.
    Last edited by Mountain Cycle Shawn; 01-15-2013 at 01:57 PM.

  60. #560
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    I think it was the stupid and breeding comment.
    As Tone's has described many times in his previous posts, he has tried enough ways of breeding to pick up the slack for others. In his own way, I think he is just encouraging others to breed a little less to keep the global breeding equilibrium at a good balance point, given his excesses.

  61. #561
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    I just gave two people in here a 7 day timeout for name calling and flaming.

    Disagree, okay. Debate, fine. But do it without name calling.
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  62. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Mate your a bloke that belittles others and name calls then at the same time accuse others of doing it, you love to make out your a victim and a saint, your above few posts are prime
    I find this ironic after reading some of your posts!

  63. #563
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    talent propelled that ball and legs and lungs propelled the other. He hit 70 that season and the other doper hit 72 the next year. So what. Neither are in the hall yet but i'd bet BB gets there before Mark (who will never be elected at least in category and the way voting works now).

    i don't really care what happens and yes I think it bad to cheat but I will always be a fan of Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, and the late 20th/early 21st century pro-peloton edit--oh, less the Schleck Bros--something seems extra smart-alecky/pretentious/snob-ridden and etc about those two.


    Quote Originally Posted by ryguy135 View Post
    Haven't paid attention to this thread since I posted it and saw the results a few days later.

    All I have to add is it sucks finding out all your childhood heroes are frauds, liars, and cheats. Not just LA, but Mark McGwire was my hero. Watching him hit a homerun in his big season as an 8 year old is something that I'll never forget. Sucks now that I know what really propelled that ball.

  64. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmySlowRdr View Post
    edit--oh, less the Schleck Bros--something seems extra smart-alecky/pretentious/snob-ridden and etc about those two.
    I agree, and don't forget whiny, wimpy and nerdy. You can't be a grand tour winner if you don't have sand to Time Trial competitively. These two are one trick ponies, climbers only.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

  65. #565
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    If Lance says he doped in the Oprah interview I won't believe him.
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  66. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE, View Post
    If Lance says he doped in the Oprah interview I won't believe him.
    who would believe him anyway, big deal.

    it was never proven in court. i don't care if he says he did.
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  67. #567
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    who fvcking cares.
    If you arent bleeding, you arent riding hard enough.
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  68. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    who fvcking cares.
    I can only speak for myself and confirm that I care.

    However, thousands of posts on mtbr, tens of thousands of posts on roadie forums, endless media coverage in print, web, radio, and TV, etc. does suggest that others also care.

  69. #569
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    why? does it affect your life, personally, to know if he doped? for some reason i doubt it, other than to give you some inner peace or self-satisfaction to "know the truth."

    i think he did, and everyone else did- and i dont care, nor should anyone else. there are far more important things in life to worry about besides the uniball rider and his needle tracks.
    If you arent bleeding, you arent riding hard enough.
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  70. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    why? does it affect your life, personally, to know if he doped? for some reason i doubt it, other than to give you some inner peace or self-satisfaction to "know the truth."

    i think he did, and everyone else did- and i dont care, nor should anyone else. there are far more important things in life to worry about besides the uniball rider and his needle tracks.
    Actually it does affect me personally. I am closely involved with organized cycling in many capacities at a club, events, and regional level. The massive negative publicity surrounding he Armstrong affair impacts the efforts of me and my colleagues when handling sponsorships, program donations, interest in youth programs, etc. It has caused many people to think twice about getting involved, and becomes a topic in many of those discussions with people who might have been very willing to help, but now think that maybe they should put their sponsorships, participation of their kids, etc. toward other pursuits.

    Whether there's any legitimate reason for thinking cycling is worse than a number of other sports is up for debate, but regardless of the merits that's not a preferred way to start a dialogue with potential new entrants and contributors to the cycling community.

    Is that real enough for you?

  71. #571
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    i think it should have no relevance at all to whatever your pursuits may be. lance was a pro athlete who used PEDs, just like countles other pro athletes over the years who used PEDs and got caught. And kids still play football, and baseball, and run track, and ride bikes... and parents still let their kids play sports, and companies big and small still sponsor youth sporting organizations despite the alleged misconduct by certain athletes.

    If it bothers you that much, by all means continue to get your panties in a wad. Whether he admits it or not, life will still go on and people are still going to race, kids are still going to ride bikes, and parents are still going to spend their money to keep little johnny on his bike. If you have prospective clients who are thinking twice about becoming involved with your pursuits, based on the fact that Lance Armstrong used drugs to win 7 titles, then maybe its better for you that you dont have them involved with your ventures since they are so narrow minded as to make their decisions based on the actions of someone not remotely involved in your gig. Thats as ridiculous as me telling my son hes not allowed to go swimming at the pool this summer because Michael Phelps smoked a bong.

    But it sounds like you are ready to DVR that Oprah episode and watch it over and over again trying to glean whatever tidbits of truth you can. Do what you must.
    If you arent bleeding, you arent riding hard enough.
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  72. #572
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    Drawing a blank
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  73. #573
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    hey guys, lets talk mountain biking again.

    All this Lance "Roadie Cirque Du Soleil" Armstrong debate has gone on long enough.

    I was trying to avoid posting in any of these threads but it was inevitable considering how often and how much new Lance threads pop up.

    I say converge all the Lance threads into one big thread and leave it like that. You could probably even make a new section in the forum dedicated to Lance. I'm sure it would be a very active forum. All the sponsors would love to get an ad in that section.
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  74. #574
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    "If you have prospective clients who are thinking twice about becoming involved with your pursuits, based on the fact that Lance Armstrong used drugs to win 7 titles, then maybe its better for you that you dont have them involved with your ventures since they are so narrow minded as to make their decisions based on the actions of someone not remotely involved in your gig."

    it's not lance alone. lance is just the tip of the iceberg. the actions of lance and many others have cast a negative light on competitive cycling.

    read this and focus on the twenty years between 1992 and 2012. it's pretty massive:

    List of doping cases in cycling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  75. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIRTJUNKIE, View Post
    I don't mean to sidetrack this beautiful decade long debate but……
    Could someone point out the post or posts in this thread that got Tone and someone else a 7 day time out. I'm not seeing it. All I see in Tone making an opinionated blanket statement of a group of posters that have a different opinion than he does. Did I miss something?
    sorry for the added sidetrack...

    You should know by now DJ. Anyone from the OC is already on thin ice once they venture to the other forums.

    But yeah, I hope it gets pointed out too.

    /sidetrack

    carry on with the debate.
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  76. #576
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    there's a lot of reason to care.

    like many others i love the sport of cycling and because of LA's actions this has blown open just how corrupt it is from top to bottom. it's concerning that someone can get away with as much as LA did, even more so because he was able to via being enabled and protected by the very governing bodies that are put in place to prevent such fraud.

    am i glad it happened? sure. it exposes how dirty and corrupt cycling is at top levels. maybe now this corruption will be eradicated.

    is it just a sport? no. it's also a multi-trillion dollar business. from either the sport or business aspect if one is going to be a pro athlete and agree to be bound by certain rules/policies/procedures then it's not out of line to be angry when someone dominates the sport by disregarding them, is enabled by the very ones put in place to police the sport, and destroys those who stand in his way.

    time and again what seems to be of more insult is not so much that LA doped, but his behavior in general. his character of throwing everyone under the bus. of being a bully. he has demonstrated that he is a sociopath who genuinely believed the rules did not apply to him and when cornered used power, influence, money, and even the legal system to silence any who called him out for his abhorrent actions.

    almost a decade of LA's sociopathic shenanigans is quite different from just making a mistake, realizing it, coming clean out of searing of conscience, and making amends.

    the general ire seems to be not just that he cheated but that he went to such great lengths to cover it up and continued to lie about it in the face of overwhelming evidence. that he destroyed peoples lives when they came clean about it. that he vociferously denied and went after people privately and publicly destroying lives and careers in the process of covering up his actions.

    and now that it will benefit him he wants to come clean and apologize? now that he wants something, i.e. to be reinstated to compete in triathlons, he's willing to make a full admission?

    imho his apology is nothing but the next very thought out and calculated move by a sociopath.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  77. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    If it bothers you that much, by all means continue to get your panties in a wad. Whether he admits it or not, life will still go on and people are still going to race, kids are still going to ride bikes, and parents are still going to spend their money to keep little johnny on his bike.
    Kids are always going to continue riding their bikes. I could get more sponsors involved to help support even more kids riding their bikes if the doping went down.

    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    If you have prospective clients who are thinking twice about becoming involved with your pursuits
    Clients are accounts one makes money from. I volunteer my time and effort to non-profits (small and large) involved in cycling. We don't have "clients".

    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    based on the fact that Lance Armstrong used drugs to win 7 titles, then maybe its better for you that you dont have them involved with your ventures since they are so narrow minded as to make their decisions based on the actions of someone not remotely involved in your gig.
    Wish that were the case, but that's not my reality. Every doper in cycling makes it more difficult for me to do my stuff. Armstrong has made it more difficult than any other 10 combined.

    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    But it sounds like you are ready to DVR that Oprah episode and watch it over and over again trying to glean whatever tidbits of truth you can. Do what you must.
    I won't be watching Oprah, but if you want you can post up a summary here after it airs.

  78. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazukea View Post
    sorry for the added sidetrack...

    You should know by now DJ. Anyone from the OC is already on thin ice once they venture to the other forums.

    But yeah, I hope it gets pointed out too.

    /sidetrack

    carry on with the debate.
    I think it's a different LA thread. Heck there are like 30.

  79. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    i think it should have no relevance at all to whatever your pursuits may be. lance was a pro athlete who used PEDs, just like countles other pro athletes over the years who used PEDs and got caught. And kids still play football, and baseball, and run track, and ride bikes... and parents still let their kids play sports, and companies big and small still sponsor youth sporting organizations despite the alleged misconduct by certain athletes.

    If it bothers you that much, by all means continue to get your panties in a wad. Whether he admits it or not, life will still go on and people are still going to race, kids are still going to ride bikes, and parents are still going to spend their money to keep little johnny on his bike. If you have prospective clients who are thinking twice about becoming involved with your pursuits, based on the fact that Lance Armstrong used drugs to win 7 titles, then maybe its better for you that you dont have them involved with your ventures since they are so narrow minded as to make their decisions based on the actions of someone not remotely involved in your gig. Thats as ridiculous as me telling my son hes not allowed to go swimming at the pool this summer because Michael Phelps smoked a bong.

    But it sounds like you are ready to DVR that Oprah episode and watch it over and over again trying to glean whatever tidbits of truth you can. Do what you must.
    Damn, I wish I could rep this comment! I'll be back.
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  80. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    there's a lot of reason to care.

    like many others i love the sport of cycling and because of LA's actions this has blown open just how corrupt it is from top to bottom.
    Corrupt top to bottom? Is this where I should confess I did caffeine shots on my way to my Cat 3 Short Track podium last summer?

    Are we big into drama?
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  81. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu412 View Post
    Corrupt top to bottom? Is this where I should confess I did caffeine shots on my way to my Cat 3 Short Track podium last summer?
    That would depend on whether or not it stipulates that caffeine is yay or nay in the rules and regulations, it's the riders responsibility to be up to date with what they can/can't comsume during an event.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu412 View Post
    Are we big into drama?
    It seems to me you're trying to create some.

  82. #582
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    I say lock this thread. Too much drama, members being banned, and lots of unnecessary butthurt.

    We can all see that this is starting to head south.
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  84. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    The Lung speaks!

    Not giving my opinion on criminalizing sports doping, but "sporting fraud" (including doping) is already a criminal offence in some other countries.

  85. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by daves4mtb View Post
    Just lock out the hitler youth who can't discuas the issue like adults. Virtually no one is arguing he is clean. For the most part there is a disagreement about what should be done about his dirtyness...
    Michael Vick is back playing football. Why not let lance ride TDF?

    Sent from somewhere not sitting on my ass in front of the computer.
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  86. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by big terry View Post
    Michael Vick is back playing football. Why not let lance ride TDF?
    Vick didn't cheat within competition.

    (or at least not that we know of )

  87. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    this from ned overend. remember him?
    I do know who Ned Overend is, and respect him greatly, as should every mtn biker. He had is glory days (NORBA and UCI) and has just kept racing (XTERRA, triathlon, cyclocross and 5-time winner of the Durango Iron Horse race as recently as 2011) and at least in the recent past has ridden in the open pro class at some mountain bike races. I think now he is more focused on age group racing. He is an athlete and competitor at heart. I suspect that Specialized now pays the rent, but he just keeps turning the pedals.
    Awesome guy.

  88. #588
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    DJ------AEDubber's offense was in a different LA thread where he told someone in less genteel words to blow him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mazukea View Post
    sorry for the added sidetrack...

    You should know by now DJ. Anyone from the OC is already on thin ice once they venture to the other forums.

    But yeah, I hope it gets pointed out too.

    /sidetrack

    carry on with the debate.

  89. #589
    Evolutionsverlierer
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post

  90. #590
    Suckin wind like a boss
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip View Post
    Vick didn't cheat within competition.

    (or at least not that we know of )
    Touché.

    Sent from somewhere not sitting on my ass in front of the computer.
    If you arent bleeding, you arent riding hard enough.
    http://about.me/bigterry

    Quote Originally Posted by Hutch3637 View Post
    I don't need sex. My life fvcks me daily.

  91. #591
    the half breed devil
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    here is doping from an amateur mountain bike racer's perspective:

    Doping in Amateur Cycling | The Bikinator | Angie Sokorai

    and if you don't click the link in this young lady's blog, i've clicked it for you:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/28/sp...nks.html?_r=2&

  92. #592
    Always Learning
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    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    am i glad it happened? sure. it exposes how dirty and corrupt cycling is at top levels. maybe now this corruption will be eradicated.

    is it just a sport? no. it's also a multi-trillion dollar business.
    Whoa. What? A multi-trillion dollar business?

    Do you have the accounting data to substantiate that financial figure?

    Multi-trillion?

  93. #593
    meh... whatever
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    Quote Originally Posted by shekky View Post
    personally, i'm in total agreement with uncle ned.
    "Knowledge is good." ~ Emil Faber

  94. #594
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    Ned has a good idea, cheater in sport steal money! It's not just a game when there money involve, Olympic is supposed to be for amatory, there are no money involve our very little, except for some number 1...

    Do you think Lance could have a deal with Oprah in order to make money with is tonight show? Oprah will most likely have a good auditor tonight, Publicity will be expensive tonight.

    Just an idea, he may earn the money to pay is law suit at least National Post (UK) and the insurance companies in Texas...

    Would be an Armstrong Performance to take advantage (cheat) on its cheat confession...

  95. #595
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    100% agree

    Quote Originally Posted by monogod View Post
    there's a lot of reason to care.

    like many others i love the sport of cycling and because of LA's actions this has blown open just how corrupt it is from top to bottom. it's concerning that someone can get away with as much as LA did, even more so because he was able to via being enabled and protected by the very governing bodies that are put in place to prevent such fraud.

    am i glad it happened? sure. it exposes how dirty and corrupt cycling is at top levels. maybe now this corruption will be eradicated.

    is it just a sport? no. it's also a multi-trillion dollar business. from either the sport or business aspect if one is going to be a pro athlete and agree to be bound by certain rules/policies/procedures then it's not out of line to be angry when someone dominates the sport by disregarding them, is enabled by the very ones put in place to police the sport, and destroys those who stand in his way.

    time and again what seems to be of more insult is not so much that LA doped, but his behavior in general. his character of throwing everyone under the bus. of being a bully. he has demonstrated that he is a sociopath who genuinely believed the rules did not apply to him and when cornered used power, influence, money, and even the legal system to silence any who called him out for his abhorrent actions.

    almost a decade of LA's sociopathic shenanigans is quite different from just making a mistake, realizing it, coming clean out of searing of conscience, and making amends.

    the general ire seems to be not just that he cheated but that he went to such great lengths to cover it up and continued to lie about it in the face of overwhelming evidence. that he destroyed peoples lives when they came clean about it. that he vociferously denied and went after people privately and publicly destroying lives and careers in the process of covering up his actions.

    and now that it will benefit him he wants to come clean and apologize? now that he wants something, i.e. to be reinstated to compete in triathlons, he's willing to make a full admission?

    imho his apology is nothing but the next very thought out and calculated move by a sociopath.
    He is caught and he is desperate ... The only good thing that can come from this would the doctors and pushers of dope get punished. LA needs to be sued by everyone he has sued. Then he needs to serve time, yes he is a criminal. He is done.

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